# Chapter Select, [[S0E2 - The Last of Us Part II]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome back to Chapter Select in what we are calling season zero of this inaugural show. *00:00* My co-host, as always, is Max Roberts. *00:00* We've talked about The Last of Us a lot on and off over the years, even before we did our last episode kind of about that game last week. *00:00* The last time we had one of these conversations about a new Naughty Dog game that came out was with Uncharted 4, and that discussion ended up being Max saying, yes, this is my favorite game ever now. *00:00* Um so I'm curious if you think Naughty Dog has one up themselves compared to their last outing. *00:00* I don't know if that's something for you that you feel weird about potentially saying. *00:00* Um, it's gonna be a dual protagonist game. *00:00* So that's not something you're actively really taking part in. *00:00* And there were parts of her character that I really liked that they fleshed out, like the whole sequence in the synagogue where she talks about her background and her faith and stuff like that I thought was good for her. *00:00* Same with the aquarium, same with the island. *00:00* Where do I need to go? *00:00* She likes to play the guitar. *00:00* You f I felt like that meme with the stupid guy who finds the scroll and then chucks it, if you know what I'm talking about. *00:00* And I again that's not it's not like I wasted 20 minutes doing something like that every time, but like I'm wondering how much those little times added up to where I like thoroughly explored things in these environments, not *00:00* Like, does she dodge it every single time? *00:00* Well the graphics and animations are really good, uh, which I cannot say enough. *00:00* I can't wait to see what they do with that too. *00:00* There's a lot of colors in Gears 5, surprisingly, in certain areas of that game, and it really pops crazy well. *00:00* Naughty Dog's original game, The Last of Us, and hot off the tails of, at least when we're recording this, the release of The Last of Us Part 2, we're going to be looking at that video game today. *00:00* Um I I guess to say this up front this show is gonna be a lot of times not games that have freshly come out like this. *00:00* uh Nate and Elena's daughter at the end of Uncharted Four. *00:00* like you're tricking your head that like oh I'm playing as this person right now. *00:00* in the whole game. *00:00* This is a very nice one. *00:00* the whole ending of that game and how it's recontextualized a little bit as we go forward. *00:00* Talk for the next three hours about all the parallels between Abby and Ellie in this game. *00:00* the seraphytes. *00:00* uh the rattlers, these are just groups they're ruled by the violence surrounding them and they can't *00:00* And he's not in very much of it. *00:00* this because I know we haven't even started talking about literally any other aspects of this game. *00:00* Um he's somebody that you quickly like though, which makes it that much worse when he dies. *00:00* It uh that you kinda could see or imagine, especially in a messed up world. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* I feel like a l there's a lot of cliches where it's like, oh, why are you on the outs from your religious cult? *00:00* Um just like where's your village? *00:00* That's okay. *00:00* Oh gosh, I know what's gonna happen now. *00:00* Okay, so that's what I played on as well. *00:00* Um, I honestly expected that I would have way more because it felt like I thoroughly explored every aspect in this game. *00:00* So it's like that with That's what happened to me for four years, so it's I feel like it's just like that with most games, so I for me to get a little bit burnt on Last of Us Near the *00:00* twenty to thirty hours. *00:00* music and then the fact that you can tool around on the guitar and people are starting to figure out how to actually play songs and that's really just a cool thing for Naughty Dog to flush out and throw in this game for no reason in particular other than it's just kind of a cool thing to tool around with. *00:00* visuals. *00:00* want Naughty Dog to do next. *00:00* It's also interesting just because this particular season only has two games and you know the idea is to bounce back and forth from beginning to the most recent and this one is kind of just a a one-two punch. *00:00* Uh Neil brought aboard uh Westworld Rider and what else has she done? *00:00* her name. *00:00* I I I always forget about Lost Legends. *00:00* and with fans, favorite and best are often considered interchangeable. *00:00* In some ways that seems like the biggest thing that happens in this game, which it is, I guess, because it sets in motion everything that happens from then on out. *00:00* You're talking about how where they want to lead with this and what they're trying to do. *00:00* controlling them. *00:00* So that's actually interesting. *00:00* like barely hanging on to her life and she's trying to save Lev and they're trying to get out of here and they're it is d they're they're both just in this hellhole of a place and *00:00* You're in the stadium and not twenty minutes into it, you meet the dog and you play fetch with it. *00:00* You're like, get this stupid dog off me. *00:00* Ellie and Abby are the best ones that start talking about this and then we can go from there with some of the others. *00:00* uh throughout the remainder of the game. *00:00* stuff. *00:00* expected to be that person afterward and she realizes she doesn't want to be that person anymore and uh she tries to and she realizes that Joel's death really didn't provide any sort of closure for her and she feels like she needs to rectify it somehow by *00:00* characters and that even once you do find once you uh or just the cycle of not closure, but just feeling I mean you closure to a degree because yeah, even sh even when she kills Joel she still doesn't have that sense of like find that. *00:00* why she then tries to go out of her way to start helping uh the kids she comes with across throughout the game. *00:00* to Yara and Lev's hut, I was trying to sneak through those combat encounters without killing more people, not because *00:00* was a nutcase. *00:00* kind of dictating what they're gonna do and when they're going d to do it to a certain degree. *00:00* as well for the most part. *00:00* Ellie know that he's lying to him? *00:00* Uh he was older in those. *00:00* will inevitably come out that is like The Last of Us Part II in chronological order. *00:00* take down all of Abby's friends or everybody who was complicit in killing Joel. *00:00* It does leave things kind of lingering like throughout most of the game. *00:00* And so that does it that that was a little bit of a head scratcher for me while I played personally, but I also I don't know, like it wasn't anything I ever dwelled on too much, I guess. *00:00* Um and once you got to the theater, it just mainly became, oh I'm pregnant, I can't go anywhere and she was just kind of confined to the theater the rest of the game, which I thought sucked. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* uh a parenthood triangle technically since Jesse is the father. *00:00* He when he leaves to go after Tommy, because that's what's best for Dina, you kind of see where his line is, like m morally and what's going on. *00:00* And then when she kinda helps clean up Ellie after she gets really messed up. *00:00* the game and they are able to sew they are able to get you to kind of feel empathy for Abby specifically because they sit with her for 10 hours, but they don't sit with all the other characters for 10 hours. *00:00* And to me that just made me really less prone to connect with him to a certain degree. *00:00* Even through Abby's plot line, she's in like two scenes. *00:00* We don't believe the same things that everybody else believes or whatever. *00:00* And I get that it's like it's supposed to be a punch of the gut, like when Yara dies. *00:00* Uh this was a larger thing with Abby's whole path to the game. *00:00* Like her destinations were always like way the heck out of the way and you needed to walk through them all to get there. *00:00* Boats way over here. *00:00* or whatever. *00:00* feeling just way too long in the tooth and I think the game does have some pacing problems in the second half because of that. *00:00* Uh I'm sitting there going every time it switched back to controlling Abby, I would say to my wife, who's also named Abby, uh Abby, this is not good. *00:00* We gotta get the events of this game kickstarted somehow. *00:00* this game's poor writing, but that just felt like way too convenient. *00:00* gonna die and I know that that whole moment really just serves to get Joel dead so we can get on with the other 25 hours of this game or however much there is left. *00:00* if that makes any sense. *00:00* Where Ellie's like, whoa, I love superhero comic book. *00:00* And again, maybe this is just personal happenstance, but the Abby in the game, super into animals and like scientific knowledge and stuff, she she knows things about nature. *00:00* So again, maybe just personal habitats, but I really found like these characteristics or personal traits of Abby that I connected with. *00:00* game. *00:00* Um there really is. *00:00* is cool. *00:00* Some weak criticism, I feel like, on my part. *00:00* Um and considering this game is much longer than its predecessor, I was getting a little bit worn down by the end of it, more so than the last game. *00:00* uh fluidity in the design of how you flow through melee to shooting to diving all that stuff and there's also weight behind everything. *00:00* Do something s really stupid, like run directly at somebody when I shouldn't be. *00:00* Anyway. *00:00* the the stun bomb and the trip mine and teach myself to use those things instead of just throwing Molotovs and using ammo. *00:00* And I didn't know that ahead of time or it I didn't figure that out. *00:00* If you leave the area, that's it for him. *00:00* every single one. *00:00* Make sure that I didn't miss anything. *00:00* You're just a scavenger. *00:00* I was surprised at the actual set pieces that this game had. *00:00* annoyed. *00:00* So you just beat the gaming screen. *00:00* A plus work on both for both Gustavo and Mac. *00:00* in the music store. *00:00* Kinda cool. *00:00* The forest sequence, the one from the Paris Games Week trailer, is like one of the most well-lit things I've ever seen in a video game. *00:00* Ago like this puts that to shame. *00:00* So like uh great the hardware is getting more powerful only for them to more realistically design a actual looking human in the future. *00:00* the the direction that Naughty Dog went as a whole visually is just really fascinating in this game to me. *00:00* you know, since two thousand seven and technique that was a release. *00:00* Completely different. *00:00* can give it is like every single area you come across in this game feels like a legitimate like Jackson feels like an actual city I could go live in right now and *00:00* It won't let you. *00:00* Um, which is maybe a cautionary tale for part three. *00:00* just doesn't immediately devolve into just a firestorm of comments. *00:00* so many interesting threads and so many interesting decisions that Naughty Dog made along the along the way. *00:00* Far different compared to future episodes of this podcast that we will be doing. *00:00* Is it just Max Roberts now? *00:00* Max, I don't think you or me have talked to many other people about this game at this point. *00:00* So yeah, uh as I said, today's episode Last of Us Part 2. *00:00* And so I think that combined with the fact that one game came out seven years ago and one game came out four or five days ago is kind of interesting and not *00:00* Yeah, you and I have long talked about Naughty Dog games pretty in-depth. *00:00* my new favorite game of all time. *00:00* Um, which I think answers your question to a certain degree. *00:00* I don't know, it's just a very complicated video game. *00:00* Not really mate looking to make a game about uh that'll make players comfortable and it's gonna be something that it'll be hard to get through. *00:00* And again, m far more than our last episode where we looked at The Last of Us, because that was a game we were intimately familiar with. *00:00* Because I finished this game about 24 hours ago at this point. *00:00* And that's not to say that we don't have hard opinions one way or another, because I know what I do about certain things. *00:00* spoiler and discussion point. *00:00* I am your father type thing. *00:00* Yeah, she was gonna be the centr centerpiece of the story moving forward and that The Last of Us was gonna follow her first rather than being a story that you see from Joel's point of view. *00:00* s puts a pin in it for the player of this isn't just about Ellie and ultimately avenging Joel's death *00:00* I don't know, it just feels like it was such a secret. *00:00* they love these people in their lives so much and they have such close connections to them that to them that they they just can't let these things go. *00:00* And that I think is a little bit more of the amplified tones of this game that uh there's one review I read, I think it may have been Polygons, where it talks about how N Naughty Dog thinks what thinks human uh *00:00* uh emotion is far worse than it actually is, or that and that normal humans are actually far better and more capable of empathy than naughty dog portrays in this game. *00:00* pushing me to do, and which I get is the point to a certain degree, but it wasn't making me I wasn't seeing myself as that character in that in that moment, if that makes any sense. *00:00* making me do. *00:00* And as Ellie, when you get there the first time, you kill the dog, you go in, and Owen and Mel die. *00:00* Heart just sunk. *00:00* Yeah, you took more active part in killing the dog as Ellie than you did Melon Owen. *00:00* think that's necessarily in question him going on that murder spree at the end of the first game. *00:00* And I unloaded every single piece of ammo I had on me on his body because I just thought it was stupid. *00:00* which is no old enough, teenager. *00:00* Um, anyway, I don't know why I I felt the need to throw that in there, but every single extra piece of ammo I had I f shot into him while on the ground. *00:00* kinda still talking about dumb stuff like oh I feelings about Dina and oh la what happened last night like just typical like high school level drama stuff. *00:00* Because D Dina gets pregnant and it's like, okay, you should go home. *00:00* Ellie really just falls off the deep end in this game to the point that I mean by the end of it she's got nothing left that we're aware of. *00:00* That Naughty Dog went in a direction with one killing Joel, but then two just tearing down Ellie entirely. *00:00* I imagine she goes back to Jackson and tries to rekindle the relationships there. *00:00* Um I actually think she's a lot like Joel. *00:00* And Tommy did a lot to survive, and Joel did some pretty terrible things. *00:00* She's like the top person for the WLF throughout this game, the Wolves, and uh she is like number one murderer for their squad. *00:00* uh however what a whatever age she is. *00:00* They're then doing a good act because the act of seeking justice, even if she felt like she was in the right for it, really it it didn't it just didn't end anything. *00:00* talk about some well let's bones to pick we have with the story later on. *00:00* Because that's another exploration in empathy through the player and gameplay. *00:00* revealed this feature that they had built that every NPC had its own name, every dog has its own name, and you know, when you kill someone, they call out to their friend. *00:00* And I thought that was actually a pretty effective way. *00:00* When you play as Ellie, you're you're seeing all these uh WLF members as psychopaths throughout the whole game. *00:00* it's it's very unique to give emotional weight to the enemies that you're fighting. *00:00* Uh the events of the last game, one, and then two, just how him and Ellie tried to move forward through their relationship. *00:00* it just kept deteriorating and it always came back to the that was the through line of every single flashback. *00:00* Um especially halfway through the game when you find out that they had this huge falling out. *00:00* I do agree that Dina didn't get kind of I think the upfront love that maybe she deserved to kind of be fleshed out. *00:00* Especially in Uncharted Four, just kind of felt like she was there more of the time. *00:00* Uh so you're kind of by proxy not really wanting to r you're mad at that whole group of people who kills Joel at the start of the *00:00* And I guess that was my my thing with them is that I never really felt any sort of compassion for any of them on a deep level. *00:00* They're all new people and they do a really messed up thing that you don't enjoy. *00:00* You c you just get that vibe. *00:00* A a connection between just, you know, she's the one that rats Abby out to Ellie through torture and she's the one that helps Abby escape custody. *00:00* Touch on. *00:00* Yeah, so it's really just defying it's just trying to be the Lev wants to be himself with and still be part of this group and still be part of this faith, uh this larger faith that this uh *00:00* her arm only for her to die twelve hours later. *00:00* Uh the hospital, for instance. *00:00* didn't suck though because it made me feel like it was a little bit more than a lot of people. *00:00* Did Isaac die? *00:00* was he just happened to come across Abby. *00:00* 'Cause I knew what they I had a feeling like this is what they're gonna do and there was nothing I could do to stop it. *00:00* And just so happens that fate puts her with Tommy and Joel. *00:00* That just lined up with me perfectly and I just related to it. *00:00* And they managed to do it over the span of twelve to fifteen hours of gameplay. *00:00* So in the first Last of Us game, if you were carrying a bottle but you ran across a brick, you can swap the bottle out for a brick. *00:00* The gameplay is really solid. *00:00* Everything's obviously bigger than the last game, which in a lot of ways I think is good. *00:00* Bigger isn't always better as Banjo Tui showed us back in the year what 2000 or whatever. *00:00* uh more tight-knit focused engagements of the previous game. *00:00* What, like two situations like that throughout the entire game that I can think of? *00:00* that I really ended up enjoying quite a bit and using using those situations and reactions to be reactionary instead of *00:00* season so you may have heard me us talk about like we recorded that probably ten days ago and so I had just I just finished playing the the original game two weeks ago. *00:00* Trying to really really be careful with every single shot you take and in this it was just I was way more loosey goosey with it. *00:00* turned it on a higher difficulty, but I was also trying to just see the throat the story through to its conclusion. *00:00* I had so many pills up to that point that I just automatically maxed out that category. *00:00* I wasn't really hurting for health kits like you. *00:00* But I just I did feel kind of the weight of that and I thought things balanced out after that. *00:00* Everything there to the fullest of my ability. *00:00* But I do wish not that there were more open areas necessarily, but that I had known or could infer that this was the only time this was gonna happen. *00:00* Like once you got past that one area, it's like cool, hope you enjoyed that. *00:00* Which building do I need to explore and which which one is gonna take me on the main path of the story and which one isn't, because I'm gonna go out of my way to search the other ones first. *00:00* to really find anything. *00:00* here. *00:00* That I mean that that was awesome. *00:00* into the world of The Last of Us in a way that made sense. *00:00* Just you're sneaking around trying to hit and fight. *00:00* well. *00:00* the end is pretty parford of course honestly. *00:00* I mean uh Gustavo's the guitarsman, so I'm gonna assume Mac is the guy who was putting in those just foreboding, like pounding noises you hear throughout the entire freaking game. *00:00* strangely an emotional part of the game and then ice cubes in the game. *00:00* um into Meme on if you're donkey. *00:00* Looking forward to revisiting this game on the PS5 as a backward compatible title. *00:00* I think is the other big one I would point to Another it's an example another example of a first-party studio really honing in on that hardware. *00:00* Like at our our website's commenters or just the people who read our site that I associate with, um, say like, oh, I'm tired of like these realistic *00:00* And they really the visuals are very much in service of the direction they decide to go with in a uh their dire the direction they decide to go with with the art. *00:00* Uh all these uh all these old uh houses that you're running through that have PS3s plugged into the entertainment center. *00:00* What the last Jedi probably. *00:00* With a lot of different themes going on that we could keep dissecting for the next five hours if we wanted to. *00:00* a trash heap and I don't want this game to be I don't want this game to be that because I think there is so much so much to unpack in this game *00:00* whatever the last of us multiplayer thing turned into. *00:00* Interesting. *00:00* To sort of kick off. *00:00* We love you. *00:00* Uh join us in the future. *00:00* uh written work about video games over there at dualshockers. *00:00* And today we're going to be looking at The Last of Us Part 2. *00:00* necessarily true to the the format of the show, but this is gonna be a really fun episode regardless. *00:00* Anyway, so yeah, we're going to uh we're going to dig deep into the game today. *00:00* Uh yeah, primarily older games I would imagine we'll play. *00:00* That's we uh usually if one of us is podcasting, the other one is there, typically. *00:00* Did this first this season zero to talk about these two games because you and I like talking about naughty dog games. *00:00* He uh he helped Gusava with uh soundtrack this time around. *00:00* Before we get into the more specifics about the story and the gameplay and things like that, we're gonna analyze all those aspects in depth. *00:00* It launched on June 19th, 2020. *00:00* you know, what is a the best game of all time versus a favorite game and they kind of approach those differently now and internally go back and forth. *00:00* But yeah, I don't know, favorite and best is kind of a a different thing, so I understand where you're coming from there. *00:00* P favorite and best are definitely not the same no at all. *00:00* naturally feel like we have to say it because this game did come out less than a week ago. *00:00* Really start with all of this and I think that's the part of the game that there's the really the most to potentially talk about and dissect. *00:00* Not really a question here, but I mean just what was your thought process once you realized that they were moving into that in that direction? *00:00* For just a brief time period, you start playing as her. *00:00* We've got Ellie's entire side of things, Abby's entire side of things. *00:00* uh aspect. *00:00* the theme and lesson I think they're trying to communicate. *00:00* storytelling, books, movies, whatever. *00:00* th you're you're experiencing that emotion yourself. *00:00* between killing the doctor or letting the surgery be performed on Ellie. *00:00* Naughty Dog then told the story they wanted to tell. *00:00* So when I got to the doctor at the end of the game, I knew who it he was ahead of time. *00:00* and then to just quickly uh not quickly, but more over the course of ten hours to just see her decline and slowly just go like before you even ever play as Abby. *00:00* Abby's a just, you know, emotionally beat for beat, kind of a few steps ahead of her in this specific quest for vengeance. *00:00* thought it would. *00:00* right hand woman throughout uh for the most part and she has killed more scars in Seattle than a lot of other people have. *00:00* hunt down Joel and eventually kill him. *00:00* Uh Night talks uh Druckman specifically talks a lot about oh the cycle of uh revenge and how oh if Abby kills Joel then that means Ellie's gonna want revenge and that's one cycle of it, sure. *00:00* Uh Logan and on Dog Dog Alice Joe whatever *00:00* And as a gameplay thing, you can you can imagine that getting really annoying. *00:00* In the back half of the game when you play as Abby and you specifically go on a a journey with a a pair of seraphytes that save save Abby and then, you know, so Yara and Lev, you learn about *00:00* this Seraphite culture and these people and the history of this conflict between the WLF and the Seraphites. *00:00* killing because they were trying to kill you and just kind of how this is again focusing on the cycle of violence in a in a broader sense of just these people don't even know what they're fighting for. *00:00* But I think it was interesting. *00:00* come across some chickies play she's playing hotline Miami just chilling out in their base and then Ellie later kills that person. *00:00* I don't want to kill a single person and I agree with all of them, such and such, but it's a definitely a long way from *00:00* wants the fighting to end, but the only way he sees that is through more fighting. *00:00* Uh uncharted where they're just mm the you know, the mindless bad guys to shoot and stuff. *00:00* Me want tr me want treasure die Nathan Drake. *00:00* Back at E three twenty eighteen, which is the basically the end of the game, which is pretty crazy. *00:00* Because they didn't show that really they saved it. *00:00* um cut in tactfully throughout this game. *00:00* Well, but because part of the thing is like for the opening part of the game, I think it's a little bit jarring trying to figure out why Ellie is so gung ho trying to get revenge for Joel. *00:00* Yeah, I th I I think the flashbacks though, they really They were much needed too. *00:00* people interacting, discussing, exploring a a space. *00:00* I wish she would have felt a little bit more I wish they could have fleshed out a little bit more because I felt like too much throughout most of the game she was just simply Ellie's girlfriend rather than being her own character. *00:00* c maybe more of those types of conversations that were in the synagogue happen more in that bulk beginning area of Seattle, which we'll talk about in a bit from a gameplay perspective. *00:00* uh revelation really cut off her line a bit earlier than it needed to because she doesn't really play any sort of major role even in the cutscenes that she's in. *00:00* I did. *00:00* Like Nora's just there. *00:00* I think the Owen and Abby stuff wa was pretty good. *00:00* in the the note there if you collected it. *00:00* And I liked both of them. *00:00* And just trying to fit in and try to be accepted. *00:00* The thing I really liked about uh Levin Yara is that it didn't go down the path I was expecting with them, where you quickly get with them and you realize that they're on the outs from their own group. *00:00* crew pass and he feels like he feels like he can't. *00:00* No, they needed to confirm it and I think it adds a good idea. *00:00* Because the storm is building. *00:00* her drive to go. *00:00* somehow infiltrated the city and found out where he was and they could have done something gone in a different direction. *00:00* I mean unless you can think of things that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head here. *00:00* So I got really excited when I'd find the state quarters. *00:00* In general, because she's like a survivalist, her father clearly had a passion for animals. *00:00* She just has that thing. *00:00* threads that are going on. *00:00* I don't know. *00:00* to see where that goes. *00:00* a character that if I had been told this before the game, this is the person that kills Joel, I I naturally would not have a picture for ten hours. *00:00* I think to do that in the span of particularly just for Abby and particular her gameplays all in all, twelve to fifteen hours probably, depending on how slow and methodical you explore the areas. *00:00* To some to some degree. *00:00* Not even that you'd be playing is there in any of that stuff, but you just you told me this person does this and you're gonna feel this way, I not you know, that wouldn't have happened. *00:00* empathize with a villain over the course of seasons. *00:00* But let's start talking about the gameplay, because I know this is where we're going to differ a bit. *00:00* before that we we were hoping they would add like more instances of oh I can turn the the cordyceps or the clickers on the soldiers and there wasn't like *00:00* And my I didn't use a listen mode, so I didn't have some sort of like b uh you know, otherworldly I actually did use it. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* And I think that's where a lot of the thrill kind of lies. *00:00* recover and aim and shoot. *00:00* Well, I'm just gonna get back up, crouch, go over here, hide behind cover, and pop out and shoot. *00:00* And that was a survivor run. *00:00* just get through this area really quickly uh because I'm running across enough ammo, enough materials, enough uh I don't ever feel like I'm actually dying in these situations unless I just *00:00* make an actual choice here. *00:00* a more regular thing. *00:00* I found that I was more strapped for ammo and stuff than I definitely was for most of the time. *00:00* and approach situations. *00:00* some of the spaces and did a couple of extra things and then I remember distinctly there was this one part down by the water. *00:00* With the convoy or whatever. *00:00* you know, the Metroidvania style thing where I just don't have the item to get to the space. *00:00* And then about halfway through Abby's portion, I thought, when is this game gonna open back up again? *00:00* open area of Seattle that I hadn't seen before. *00:00* I just wish I had known I would have spent more time in Seattle. *00:00* I spent a hell of a lot of time s pouring over every single area in this video game. *00:00* I think the larger scope in a survival game of this kind where you're trying to really find every scrap and every item and every bullet that you can. *00:00* This game i very much wore out its welcome more quickly. *00:00* What did they have? *00:00* There was also the monster from inside, which super spooky part of the game. *00:00* did feel like the sword fight in the end of Uncharted, like that cinematic kind of weight quality to it. *00:00* It gave you just enough mechanics so you could focus on what you were doing, but also had that cinematic kind of feel to it. *00:00* Where with the full set of full blown mechanics, here you go. *00:00* It's good. *00:00* you're really well done and haunting. *00:00* Very much how I felt when the last game came out. *00:00* Um, and I think you to a certain degree, I I don't know. *00:00* should have stood on its own in perpetuity. *00:00* presented, the way that it's executed, or how you feel about it in the end. *00:00* You can also follow us on other platforms like iTunes and Spotify and wherever the heck else we end up posting this. *00:00* Yeah, this is the end of uh chapter select season zero. *00:00* spoilers for the entirety of the game here. *00:00* Because the reason these characters are the reason Ellie's chasing halfway across the country to kill Abby and the reason Abby's can't let go of the fact that Joel killed their dad is just because they *00:00* powerful thing and that's a really human thing to feel that sort of bond and connection to certain people in your lives. *00:00* It's, you know, like you said, all of the promotion and discussion about this game before release was about this is a game about hate, and we want to make you feel that through gameplay. *00:00* The empathy in this game is through the player playing both as Ellie and Abby over the course of these 20, 25 hours. *00:00* is one of the really special things that they pulled off. *00:00* How far gone they each are. *00:00* Ellie still goes through with trying to attack Abby and just uh murder her on the spot. *00:00* And that's just I felt like that a couple other times too. *00:00* I was controlling a person who was like deteriorating and the whole time I was, I was like, you've gotta stop this. *00:00* And then I picked up Ellie and then I ran out of there. *00:00* revenge quest succeed early on in the beginning of the game and you kind of fill in the context of later on of just kind of why she did it. *00:00* cycle throughout this game is that she finds her revenge early and it doesn't satiate her in the way that she expected it to or that she *00:00* Tension and turmoil within her group. *00:00* Honestly not even sure why they're fighting. *00:00* But then, you know, I get spotted and attacked and I'm I had you know, gameplay wise, I had to kill these people. *00:00* the only reason they're really fighting is because I mean from what you're really shown is that Isaac is just this blood hungry leader who's kind of calling the shots and is kind *00:00* There's a lack of no one wants to come to the table and talk and between the WF and the SCARS, it's part of that is because they had a peace treaty and it got *00:00* you know, that fell apart because of you know, well this group did that and this group did that and so it just kinda devolved back into their violence, but even just *00:00* Ellie and the WLF and the scars, like Ellie and Dina come into Seattle and shoot shoot first, ask questions later. *00:00* a a community that you could identify with today, it was uh a peaceful people that wanted to help. *00:00* get out of it. *00:00* And then it cuts and it's just like, ugh, those are the last things you said to him? *00:00* Um, because that you know deep down she still cared about him deeply even if she never vocalized it. *00:00* As the player, you're also channeling your own emotions into that a bit. *00:00* Now I get it. *00:00* And those not only give you gameplay-wise a moment to breathe and just have some peace and find some levity in *00:00* the world, even though these happened years or months prior, it gives you further context for the relationship and how things fell apart and d uh importantly for Abby, the *00:00* in the house when you're at the farm and obviously at the end of the game when you go back to the farm, I think she you know, that loss and that emotional tension *00:00* Couldn't care about any of them. *00:00* But even then it was hard for me to really ever feel anything too much for them because you know how their stories end, which is a tragic thing uh to a certain degree. *00:00* And also Yara and Lev. *00:00* basically make you like Abby and I think they did that that was their focus. *00:00* Just in general from that initial Paris Games Week trailer, just Latvia P side characters, but they really carry a lot of weight on the Abbey side of the plot. *00:00* Trying to fit in sort of level. *00:00* great companions and friends and kind of look up to each other, not necessarily in a like mother-son relationship, but just you know, two companions that are really tight and work together. *00:00* I don't know. *00:00* liking at the end of the game. *00:00* So up front, yes, at the opening hours, you don't feel that way. *00:00* I'm not sure. *00:00* uh hide yourself in and get the drop on enemies. *00:00* Um which means I just need to bump up the difficulty. *00:00* Notice something or my silencer would break or whatever the case may be. *00:00* And that I thought led to some interesting scenarios. *00:00* Which no one, I don't think, was really quite asking for. *00:00* that I really thoroughly enjoyed was like if I got shot, there wasn't an immediate like *00:00* Um so I just felt like w when I talk about how I was getting a little bit burnt out with the combat in the later stages of the game, I mean there were just quite literally some sections where I was like, screw it, pull out my hunting rifle, I'm gonna start popping people in the head. *00:00* feel the game out and just kinda see what it was normally. *00:00* to go back into stealth. *00:00* Uh there are a couple other things I think we could touch on gameplay-wise. *00:00* a bit too l a bit larger than they needed to be, and I preferred the smaller uh the smaller, more confined sequences of the first game. *00:00* So having for me to pour over every area as much as I did when every single not *00:00* The mechanics were established beforehand and very simple. *00:00* longer by comparison, so but I don't think it is inherently bad. *00:00* Yeah, it's good stuff. *00:00* And to touch on the music, everything that with the guitar is awesome. *00:00* Uh it's kind of f the antithis is still The Last of Us Two in a lot of ways, cause The Last of Us Two is playing with a much dimmer color palette. *00:00* And like I get that complaint, but I also think that Naughty Dog's art style and art direction in this game is just very consistent throughout, and it is just a constant *00:00* dense and rich place and I think they do quite a bit there. *00:00* They're the stuff they own getting damaged apparently. *00:00* Which were only five days out from the release of this game, so we don't know what its legacy will be. *00:00* It is a whole experience. *00:00* Yes, exactly. *00:00* I I I am I know you talked about legacy in terms of how both games line up, but I am curious to see how this game is received over the years. *00:00* It it just is. *00:00* Yeah, the game The game's real special. *00:00* Uh as for myself and Max Roberts, if you want to keep in touch with us, you can follow me. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* about a week now. *00:00* To to kind of start at the end of your point there, has Naughty Dog, you know, won up themselves since their last, you know, major release? *00:00* Yes, exactly. *00:00* Well I mean and let's get into that and I mean obvious okay, again, spoilers for everything moving forward. *00:00* Is that they talk openly about how it's a game about hatred and revenge and stuff like that. *00:00* empathy and understanding than I think it is either hatred or uh and even love to a certain extent. *00:00* And the empathy that you touch on is is ultimately the *00:00* The themes of this are just through the characters and the people in the story, and you observe it and go, Oh, that was cool. *00:00* You know, a lot of people initially not even initially, it was just a lot of people the first time around wanted a choice there at the end. *00:00* Yes. *00:00* Well and then she starts having conversations with Mel about how like her and Owen are planning for the baby and like oh I heard you guys are getting shipped over to this part of the area. *00:00* I'm I'm curious the people who thought that Joel was really messed up for what he did at the end of the first game, which he absolutely was. *00:00* And that's not to say I dislike her or anything like that. *00:00* c pulled from them, you know, for a few months or however long that gap of time is. *00:00* That version of Abby is not the Abby that we then see later on. *00:00* But I thought it was it wasn't every time. *00:00* And I think that's pretty unique. *00:00* The next one uh kind of has them talking a little bit more back and forth and she brings up the whole situation directly to him at the very end of it when they're in the hotel. *00:00* Yeah, that was when they did the Marvel style trailer where I was like, when's that scene gonna show up with Joel and her looking at each other or whatever? *00:00* is I think rather smart just narratively is you think those are the last words that she says to Joel. *00:00* During you know, was it after the fight? *00:00* where she was trying to f work on forgiving Joel for his lie and to re m to mend their relationship. *00:00* have closure on their relationship and she says she wants to forgive him. *00:00* He has values that you want friends to have, you know, my friend's problems or my problems. *00:00* isolate Ellie both to the player, because you can tell she's she's obsessed with this goal and grounds him as like a good, decent person. *00:00* worked there. *00:00* As far as Abby's friend group goes, because obviously there's a lot of people there with Mel and Owen and Manny. *00:00* But also like when you see them pop up and you start playing as Abby and you're running around with them pretty quickly, it's like, well, I I know what their fates are. *00:00* group of people. *00:00* lighter. *00:00* the whole scar religion, whatever the heck it is, with following this woman or whatever. *00:00* So that kind of uh rubbed me the wrong way at first, and I thought it was kind of strange. *00:00* She's just very stoic and hard to get too invested in. *00:00* They were there. *00:00* characteristics and traits than I really found throughout the game. *00:00* But does that imply that bottles now have the same impact or like characteristics as a brick? *00:00* I got like a half I got like a quarter of the way into the game. *00:00* But I found I always felt like there were more enemies than I expected to be in a space. *00:00* necessarily like the space was so much bigger than I thought, but just the spaces were very dense and maze-like. *00:00* it yeah d added a sense of like I don't know where these people are coming from. *00:00* run a loop of trying to find everything that I may have missed in that area and then move on to the next area and inevitably do the same thing. *00:00* fifty percent of what I did in this game was just agonize over every square inch of the environment in the game. *00:00* Seraphite that you fight while in the Burning Town. *00:00* Yeah, I I like I liked most of those sequences as well. *00:00* Yeah overall I I think uh yeah I I kind of alluded to it. *00:00* It also shows off the limitations of the hardware after seven years. *00:00* Yeah, it's really Yeah, they feel like two complete pieces of one hole and obviously the immediate comparison that I think even Druckmann made when they *00:00* But I think yeah, let's see what you can do in a new world, new setting, new characters, new story. *00:00* Anywho, uh, thanks so much for listening to this episode. *00:00* I don't know. *00:00* She helped uh Neil with the story. *00:00* Is this now your favorite game ever? *00:00* Joel dying at the start of the game or probably uh I mean in my opinion, I'll say this. *00:00* wild thing to kill off uh your main protagonist from the last game. *00:00* insane to kill Jolof in those opening hours and uh it's even more insane to place you in control of the person who does it not too long after. *00:00* And it really kind of I was like, oh, this is how they want to go about it. *00:00* seven to ten hours. *00:00* I do feel like that character and like I would d I'm I do try to do what that person would do, like to role play to a certain degree. *00:00* It was just, yeah, I mean we already kind of touched on it before, but just going having her go from this beloved like character that we last saw when she was not really like a little girl, because she was like 14 last game. *00:00* you know, very sympathetic toward Abby in the beginning of the game because I know what this is gonna cost her and I know how she feels emotionally. *00:00* Ah, they're you know, they're just good people. *00:00* Enem you know, typical just game enemies. *00:00* And then the one after that, she just flat out has to go back to Salt Lake for herself to see what actually happened there. *00:00* Yes, like that's obviously the big one, but the one before that is the dance, which they show *00:00* relationship between her and Owen and Mel and their whole friend group and her journey for revenge. *00:00* Yeah, Dina and Jesse are cool. *00:00* And that's it. *00:00* connection and tension and heartache between the two of them and they have this history. *00:00* clickers and cordyceps behind them, uh, but still. *00:00* I found and m this probably is because it was just like a first time playing through, obviously didn't know these scenarios and setups and situations. *00:00* Not just because Hotline is in the game, but Hotline Mamie 2 dealt with much bigger spaces, enemies out of sight that you couldn't see. *00:00* Early on when you get to the TV station, which is also where you get the first you get the stealth or like the covert c uh skill tree. *00:00* I'm wondering how much that stacked up throughout the course of the game with me just painstakingly searching through every single environment because honestly I feel like that is *00:00* But that really didn't bother me? *00:00* impressed with the set pieces in this game. *00:00* Very nice. *00:00* uh is a callback between Ellie and Joel and every time she sits down on her guitar and tries to play it like it's like she first plays it there with when uh Joel first plays it at the start of the game and then she plays it in the *00:00* Large enough glow to everything in the proximity to around it and then all the it's just everything else is pitch black. *00:00* Again, it's just it's equally like wow this is incredible and oh my gosh, what are they gonna do on the next thing? *00:00* It's it's funny because I I think the one thing I can say well there is one other thing. *00:00* But the d but the art style between something like Untread Four and between this, even though they both feature like realistic character designs and things like that in a realistic world, the palette of both games and the art pieces and stuff like that throughout are like *00:00* Uh yeah, you can't shoot the dual shocks, you can't shoot the Vita, you can't shoot the PS3. *00:00* I can't look at the Last of Us part one the same. *00:00* It'll always be a pair of games to me in the way of whenever a few years from now when I get the itch to replay The Last of Us, that will include replaying The Last of Us Part 2. *00:00* revealed the title for the game as like Godfather and Godfather Part 2 because they use the same naming convention. *00:00* Was she did this TNT version of that or did she help with the original movie? *00:00* Which is an interesting tease and I think helps establish the second half of this game, which is when you play as Abbey for *00:00* And I feel really bad for anyone who knew that going in in general. *00:00* Ellie doesn't have empathy for Abby at the end of the game. *00:00* Like it I am never I f never feel like I'm one-to-one with the character when I'm playing it, if that makes any sense. *00:00* But to me I was I was not seeing myself as Ellie in that moment. *00:00* And now you actually get to see the kind of messed up things that Ellie did in the name of justice and revenge. *00:00* It's systemic and how how maybe not systemic. *00:00* Um but he still has the largest effect on this game, not only because I mean Joel's death kind of kicks everything off, but these flashbacks really recontextualize *00:00* And so seeing that halfway about halfway through the game and then like jumping back into the modern times where she's just trying to do anything in her power to kill Abby and *00:00* But I think she didn't feel out of place or just kind of thrown in. *00:00* throughout the rest of the game once she kind of gets sick and is dealing with her pregnancy pains. *00:00* Because there are things I have brought up I haven't brought up yet that I do have issues with. *00:00* I don't feel like we ever really got too much insight with Abby in that regard. *00:00* you're also gonna really like by the end of the game, like you're going to align with her and, you know, enjoy her presence and like her story. *00:00* I think that is incredibly impressive. *00:00* Is because I mean at the end of the day this is a survival video game, and again I I talked about how I had so many materials on me the throughout the entire time that I was playing this game, and that's because *00:00* Did you really? *00:00* The I love it when you hear the themes from the first game in these new tracks and it put it it really pulls out the emotion and really hits at the right time. *00:00* In this game, they do that a lot. *00:00* Carried out what they wanted to do with it, um, made some bold decisions along the way and told a story about *00:00* O one, I don't feel like many other studios have resources to make because they don't have the money at their disposal to do something like this. *00:00* About what are they trying to do and say. *00:00* I thought it worked. *00:00* And in the end, Abby finds a s form of redemption through Lev and their relationship and trying to, you know, find the fireflies once again, and then that gets *00:00* um and she doesn't feel like she has any sort of inner peace, I guess is the is a good phrase to use. *00:00* Yeah, to touch on them, I I was surprised how big their role was. *00:00* And then you can go prone and sneak through some areas and there's some new enemy types and things like that. *00:00* Jackson and how Joel and Tommy offered Abby and, you know, all that their whole group, come back to town, refill, restock, you know, like Jackson was a *00:00* I I don't know, man. *00:00* So when you quickly get contextualized that the person you killed was her dad, you can feel for her pretty quickly. *00:00* But for the most part, every combat environment that you come across in this game is bigger than anything we saw in the last game. *00:00* Make a make the Henry Avery game. *00:00* the the the half of the game is a giant was a giant mystery. *00:00* Well they they honestly were very similar to the left behind moments with O'Brienly in the mall. *00:00* But yeah. *00:00* So that's number one gameplay, Sin. *00:00* I d which is another criticism I have the game was too easy. *00:00* Maybe a part of it so I played it as if I was on survivor mode. *00:00* And then everything's blown up so much more in every environment makes that pursuit a little it just makes it more tiresome in the long run. *00:00* That stuff put a knot in my stomach throughout most of the game, even though it was just very simple background sounds to a degree. *00:00* And at the same time I saw issues. *00:00* Yeah, and it's it's the more it's it fits with the themes of those games. *00:00* I'm not very good at it, but uh Santo Aya. *00:00* Hope she can salvage something with uh Dina there in the future, but uh Dina tells her that's not gonna happen before she kind of leaves. *00:00* There were I I I feel like the touchstones of I I feel like some of the arcs within it were a little long. *00:00* Where's the where's the boat? *00:00* But yeah, that was like a that got really played out for me with Abby's levels in particular. *00:00* I couldn't I just can't I I felt this way in the opening three hours and I still feel this way now. *00:00* So it felt more like a character attribute. *00:00* And this pro podcast is a product of that website, is it not? *00:00* I k I knew it was gonna get pretty gnarly. *00:01* Hellcrest. *00:01* These fake fans everywhere, I feel like if you saw more Pearl Jam stuff thrown in throughout the whole game, it would have been not Pearl Jam alone, but other bands like that I think would have been *00:01* Final thing we have on our list here, and the thing that I think is uh far and away the best part of this game, hands down, without a question, even if you hate the story and you're trying to give this game a zero out of ten on Metacritic, uh, you will see people say *00:01* Then again, this whole backdrop of this game is a post-apocalyptic world where everything's kind of gone to hell anyway. *00:01* So And I feel like that's actually an amplified experiment or implementation of the end of the first game. *00:01* It it it actually emotionally disconnects her from her friends. *00:01* Most of the WLF members you come across throughout the entire game, especially on Abbey's and like they seemed like totally normal, chill people. *00:01* And I get that you need to get the story kicked off and you need to get something going. *00:01* I'm like, oh well, crap, I guess I'm just set with the le the number of b uh honey rifle rounds that I have right now. *00:01* I at the very least can respect that and I appreciate what they did with this one. *00:01* It didn't feel just cashed in or wrote in. *00:01* So theoret you knew his fate as well. *00:01* far gone version of herself throughout the course of the game. *00:01* Obviously the end with the two the two different ones between Abby and Ellie. *00:01* So this is not necessarily just the last of us specifically. *00:01* Gustavo's music is still really good. *00:01* Um and she and Dina's like, What's that? *00:01* It's the same thing like if you hover your gun over another character in the game. *00:01* Bye. *00:01* I was like, oh no. *00:01* It's it's it's an endless cycle that they can't get out of, and that's part of why Owen wants to leave. *00:01* I want to have this on the record for multiple years from now. *00:01* He got he got it a little bit earlier, which I don't know if we need to go into a backstory too much about. *00:01* It's gonna be like, you know when like Marvel movies come out and it's like, oh we can't talk about what happens at the end of endgame and then three days later everybody's like, nah, alright, uh spoilers are off the table. *00:01* So So like when you get to the end of this game and you're fighting Abby and you cut you cut her down and you see that she's just like super messed up and like *00:01* It's got a boy. *00:01* What one more thing about Abby, and just in particular, maybe to kind of put a pin in her. *00:01* And you and I'll probably keep talking about this game on the side for I don't know, days, weeks, years to come. *00:01* You like in opening the drawers and you like uh I do. *00:01* There were some there were some annoying parts for that one. *00:01* I don't know. *00:01* So she's become so consumed by that that it's a it's led to her killing these other people or taking involvement in this ongoing war in the city. *00:01* And the answer to that question is I mean, to a degree, yes, she knew he was lying because it was something between them that no matter how much they tried to move past over the years *00:01* He just he always tried to have fun and joke around. *00:01* That's kind of the lens I think it it puts on her campaign, especially once you know that all her friends die. *00:01* I'll tell you what the whole game, if I there was a brick there and I had a bottle, I threw the bottle and I picked up a brick. *00:01* Like it's just known Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father. *00:01* Let's talk about flashbacks. *00:01* He's probably honestly got I don't know what, not even an hour of screen time maybe? *00:01* Like I want vengeance. *00:01* He just got shot in the shoulder. *00:01* I I don't think it's bad by any means. *00:01* So coming into this felt like I had turned on God mode in a lot of respects. *00:01* It was a bit more sporadic before then and you would just kind of come out of the open area of Seattle from that point. *00:01* I mean one one, yes I am looking for collectibles, but I am trying to make sure that I have as much on me as I can because this stuff is sparse in this game. *00:01* It is um that super scary moment. *00:01* It's just like cool. *00:01* You're not gonna have many instances where Abby's like, whoa, I love stick quarters, man. *00:01* Not really I don't really care too much to see Abby again in the future. *00:01* But yeah, like I I can't I don't know how much else there is to say other than just holy smokes, this game is pretty and every aspect of it looks good. *00:01* Adios. *00:01* And that was only two years ago. *00:01* Zero's not really an actual number. *00:01* Like she she hasn't let it go in all the flashbacks we see with her and uh in the interim she's getting harder and tougher by contributing to this group in Seattle and this ongoing battle they have back and forth between another group in the city, the scars or the *00:01* Where's it at? *00:01* Okay, well we're just gonna skip you right there and then it's gonna take off from there. *00:01* Yeah, there was like a cliff I couldn't get to. *00:01* Uh I'm sure that is well on Neil and the team's mind over at Naughty Dog. *00:01* Uh oh, you just pissed off some of our prospective listeners down the road. *00:01* She was the narrative lead on this game. *00:01* Oh it's all the way over in Haven on the other far corner of the island. *00:01* And my my Abby, science teacher, loves animals, knows just things that I don't know. *00:01* Yeah, and I I mean th and my my whole thing with the difficulty. *00:01* They Yeah, they did a great job with the marketing. *00:02* I think they offered a really cool lens into the seraphytes. *00:02* I'll say that. *00:02* A a lot. *00:02* I think I think I will say that I think you come into it you come into this game acknowledging that what Joel did at the end of the last game is pretty pretty messed up *00:02* But I found after that when combat became more frequent, because at that point in the game I think that's when combat kind of became *00:02* So I do love that you could craft bow ammo. *00:02* They had a much tougher challenge to make you connect with those people because *00:02* So And maybe maybe part of that is because you knew that specific interaction was going like she kills Joel. *00:02* If you got shot and knocked bat on your back, you'd be lying down, uh aiming on your back and prone. *00:02* Like they kind of made it very clear. *00:02* Uh it's on, you know, Spotify, Apple Music, whatever you listen to. *00:02* I I intentionally didn't look at it or listen to it until I beat the game because I wanted to experience everything in the moment, but I highly, highly recommend it. *00:02* It's not game one and game two. *00:02* That's it's that's on me. *00:02* It was another dog enemy which you'd faced before. *00:02* Until the credits roll essentially or until she finally lets it go. *00:02* And it was a two-part thing where one you are by proxy carrying the hate of them being part of the group that killed Joel in the opening of the game. *00:02* Right. *00:02* You know, Owen shows her where Jackson is and then she goes off on her own to try and just find someone from Jackson to interrogate them and figure it out. *00:02* She is into comic books. *00:02* Mac, should I even say what our next season is going to be for this? *00:02* I mean this is probably a fair time range. *00:02* It it doesn't give her the peace she was looking for. *00:02* It was like, oh my gosh, this game looks so good. *00:02* And I'm hoping that this game's legacy is not the legacy of The Last Jedi. *00:02* Well that's that's a different issue with just the toxicity of the internet. *00:02* You know what happens to this dog. *00:02* So now seeing her become a young woman and then to see her just especially at the early part of the game, like especially those first two hours, just like *00:02* And it also mirr Joel and Ellie. *00:02* But also she had one of the coolest surprise just kills. *00:02* Like on an emotional gameplay level, I thought that worked very well. *00:02* I I think it showed I think that my big takeaway from both of those groups is that yeah, the problems within them were within each and the reason why they were just continuing to fight each other were *00:02* It's just like Of course this is how it happens. *00:02* I don't know if I I I'll say if C were to tell me The Last of Us Part 3 is an entirely Abbey game, I'm not sure if I would be down for that. *00:02* I do have something to say. *00:02* Super awesome. *00:02* And I don't you know, I don't think you're supposed to like really care for each and every one of them. *00:02* Oh, it's on the furthest corner of the screen that I can't see right now, hardly. *00:02* Or like where's your hut? *00:02* It was developed by Naughty Dog. *00:02* But since then, uh just in general, I've had a lot of internal dys thoughts and discussions about like *00:02* Everything that we have uh that Naughty Doc has openly talked about in the what four years that they have publicly been talking about this game about how it's a game about hey and how we're *00:02* Like there were moments there were specific moments in these games where in this game where I was like actively not wanting to do what the game was. *00:02* There's just I want this to stop. *00:02* There was like this overpass that you drop down on a rope. *00:02* Typically in Nadira games in the past, whenever you play as a second character, whoever it may be, whether it's Ellie in the first you know, The Last of Us Part One, or you play as *00:02* But still, it just like I felt myself like to me it felt less like I was like becoming this character who is like sinking down. *00:02* They can't come to peace. *00:02* I think it's a good trio of friends between, you know, the three of them. *00:02* She's in one scene where she's like, hey, this dude died and then, hey, I'll break you out of your handcuffs and help you get *00:02* Manny's a cool guy. *00:02* Mel adds again that kind of love triangle thing just on the other side because these two p two sets of friends and stories mirror each other intentionally. *00:02* Like, oh, it's not something totally different. *00:02* We're on rails for the rest of the game for the most part. *00:02* Uh I assume Mac Quail, I think is his name and how you pronounce it, is the guy who probably did. *00:02* Uh this is your one warning. *00:02* It's like, oh, so and so goes through this and they learn this and that. *00:02* That's pretty messed up. *00:02* It's just like these people have been through a lot. *00:02* What's the quickest way we can do that? *00:02* Maybe don't do that because everybody tries to act like the godfather of part three does not exist. *00:02* Um they totally proved that the uh making this game was a good call. *00:02* Um I think if so as we dive into this game, and there's a whole lot to dive into. *00:02* She killed me. *00:02* Like I know I've like jokingly been like, oh, Pearl Jam in this game. *00:02* The final one is obviously the biggest one where they finally kind of come to grips and try to She decides she wants to forgive him for it. *00:02* So I think the ones that they needed to focus on or that they did focus on, I think work out narratively. *00:02* There are some new tracks in this that I think are really well done. *00:02* Like there's a fair amount of texture pop-in and stuff like that throughout the course of the game where I was like, ah, I see how that fast SSD will be able to help in the future with the PlayStation 5. *00:02* I did. *00:02* And that was that is an uncharted style moment. *00:02* Yeah, I it's something I'm planning to spend more time with and uh yeah, all Gustavo's tracks. *00:02* Yeah, all that stuff I really dug. *00:02* This one is still very hot off the presses, though, so it might be a little bit of a different discussion here that we will have. *00:03* Max, how are you doing? *00:03* But that's from the seraphite side of things. *00:03* Was it this I couldn't tell. *00:03* Like it and this is me personally. *00:03* I know you wanted them to make a sequel, but I know you were also kind of you trusted them more than I did. *00:03* Just do that. *00:03* They you know, Joel does what Joel does. *00:03* I think she's a way more fascinating character now, which is actually the one good thing I wanted them to do in this game, because I didn't care about Ellie that much coming into this game. *00:03* And I think that was really smart. *00:03* Like, why does she want to get revenge for Joel so badly if they didn't have a good relationship up until the point where he died? *00:03* Thanks a lot, Naughty Dog. *00:03* More way more verticality too, which I liked for the most part. *00:03* It's n it's fair. *00:03* Yeah, I think it's gonna be similar to the, you know, maybe not of the same pop culture level, but the the Luke *00:03* It's like, oh no, we have to finish it, we're here. *00:03* Yeah, I uh I thought that whole back and forth was really well done. *00:03* I know you get the flash in the fight, but after the fight you you see there was one more moment later that night. *00:03* Cause we as the we as the players have a connection to him just as much as or maybe not just I don't know. *00:03* Like that is just too happenstance for me because *00:03* Uh you know, they've done it in Game of Thrones, y or The Walking Dead, big stuff in general. *00:03* And I enjoyed that. *00:03* Super cool, super fun. *00:03* Last thing, and then we'll close up, is you have written down the legacy. *00:03* Uh it's Max Roberts143, and you can find my writing over at maxfrequency. *00:03* In that moment I was like Ellie what are you doing? *00:03* I think the most fascinating one though is what you said is that Abby finds her revenge early on, and then Ellie is consumed by her quest for revenge. *00:03* I think she's probably around 14 or 15, same as Ellie. *00:03* They gave some emotional weight to them and it doesn't mean it always hit, you know. *00:03* So t you know, they've been working on this type of games for over fifteen years. *00:03* Uh this also brings about the close of season zero. *00:03* We hope you enjoyed this. *00:03* The game directors were Kurt Margineau and Anthony Newman. *00:03* You've finished it probably what three days ago by now. *00:03* The Nora torture scene, I felt like that. *00:03* A lot more like Joel now, and I think the same for Abby. *00:03* And I just thought that was just it was kind of a decent, wholesome side of story. *00:03* Like that was how I felt. *00:03* I felt like I I felt what you're talking about specifically on the island. *00:03* I just felt like we saw them so infrequently. *00:03* I thought they were done. *00:03* Let's talk about the aspect uh actually let's we can run over the music real quick because I don't think there's a whole lot to touch on here. *00:03* We've got all the flashbacks throughout the game. *00:03* I've been going back and forth trying to decide how I feel like they placed all of them. *00:03* Like I felt like they were gonna go down that route eventually at first. *00:03* Or her her whole arc I thought was a little bit strange in this way. *00:03* Oh, where do we need to get on the island? *00:03* I really connected with her on that level of like, yeah, that's I do that. *00:03* Okay, and maybe this is rad. *00:03* I was always if my cover was blown, I'd try to handle it and then go back into stealth and use that to my advantage. *00:03* There were some uh yeah, there were definitely some moments. *00:03* There's beautiful skies and scenes and places. *00:03* That doesn't that's not how I I always am like I I see Ellie as Ellie and I am just conf *00:03* Yeah, she yeah, I just felt like she had m more potential to be they that they could maybe explore her a bit more. *00:03* I thought that was cool. *00:03* Other than that, I think the gameplay obviously in a general sense is still very much the same. *00:03* That I never really was like a too tough of a situation. *00:03* Like that portion. *00:03* And she doesn't really say anything and she and then she starts playing some aha music, which is uh *00:03* Same with Red Dead. *00:03* Everything they've showed and talked about up to this point has focused primarily on Ellie, and they really saved. *00:03* I I genuinely, by the time you get to the Seraphai Island and you're trying to make your way *00:03* And obviously that's easier to just kind of say in Uncharted given the type of game it is and just kind of the vibe. *00:03* It's more or less a trial run that we're doing here in some respects for this, but uh *00:03* It's a good girl, I guess. *00:03* And I think it's her her hardening herself and her kind of this constant you can tell that she's got this constant motivation and this drive to *00:03* I thought it was pretty well paced out. *00:03* It felt like she was doing it just because it meant something to her sentimentally, more than so like *00:03* I w I wasn't using listen mode. *00:03* And I was like, huh. *00:03* Just dodge and hit. *00:03* She killed me and I respawned and I tried it again and then pow. *00:03* This is how they're gonna get me with the dog. *00:03* No. *00:03* I think the large open downtown area area downtown Seattle area is cool. *00:03* And then finally I picked up a bottle. *00:03* We did one for Uncharted 4 back on our old podcast, Millennial Gaming Speak, when that was still up back in the day and we had a lengthy discussion about that one. *00:03* I know if this game, this is not my favorite game of all time by any means. *00:03* But the first thing I thought of when she died was like, uh, did I really just spend like three hours in game going across the city to go to a hospital to amputate? *00:03* Oh, it's way over here. *00:03* Abby has the deck stacked against her really hard up front *00:03* Um riding the horse through the burning town, shooting people. *00:03* So, you know, I'm not waiting for them to announce brand new IP. *00:03* And Max, I I guess this is gonna be kind of an maybe an odd segue. *00:03* Like it's a little bizarre at first. *00:03* Or it's not even that he feels like he can't, it's that they straight up come after him for it. *00:03* I'm like, wait a minute. *00:03* As far as the actual kind of gameplay itself, instead of reinventing the wheel *00:03* I definitely tried to play stealthy, I should say. *00:03* Was it was she on Mr. *00:04* Which sounds like an odd point for me to lead into a discussion with you, but *00:04* Yeah, I think it does. *00:04* I think putting it at the end was a smart call overall, but it does l *00:04* She is uh I don't know, she's a gay. *00:04* Like I hear what you're saying, and I'm not I It just got older as time went on, I guess. *00:04* Obviously not to the scale of truck chase in downtown and Madagascar, but *00:04* Also cool fight. *00:04* If you've been listening to this season zero as we were calling it, last episode or the first episode we looked at *00:04* The director behind the game was Neil Druckmann who directed the first game *00:04* Is I guess what I would be saying. *00:04* We hope you have enjoyed our discussions here of The Last of Us and The Last of Us Part 2. *00:04* And I was like, oh, that's how this game's gonna go. *00:04* Well, I I think that leads there's a lot of places we could take this from here. *00:04* But uh so when I we replayed The Last of Us, the first one, a couple weeks back, obviously I had known some of these leaks ahead of time. *00:04* Anyway, Ellie to jump into her. *00:04* Chronological order. *00:04* How did you feel about them as a whole? *00:04* Like those are really the only two instances you see her throughout the whole middle portion of the game, which I thought kind of sucked. *00:04* And then I guess the other thing is just I I guess this can kind of tie back into Abby a little bit. *00:04* I think it is I can lump this in here. *00:04* It's it's more of a refinement. *00:04* And I think that's gonna be part of its legacy and just the impact of the game as a whole. *00:04* We hope you enjoyed The Last of Us Part 2 if you played the game along with us. *00:04* Typically those are late game moments. *00:04* And I think I think just sticking big picture before we get into like honing in on more specific plot points. *00:04* I'm fine with it. *00:04* I mean I I I've already told you I want them to make a new IP. *00:04* Um did they one up on Chartered Four though? *00:04* I'm not very good at the end. *00:04* Right. *00:04* Uh we're recording this a mere four days after the game has released. *00:04* Well I think I think the best thing about placing you in the shoes of both of the characters throughout the game is that it shows *00:04* Instead of a Halloween shop or a mall, it was a museum with the dinosaurs and space stuff, or an aquarium and just the space around there. *00:04* Oh, Joel just falls into her lap. *00:04* Um and I wasn't a fan of that. *00:04* Actually, I in particular related more to Abby in one aspect, um, the coin collecting. *00:04* Which by themselves very cool, especially where you play as Abby fighting Ellie. *00:04* Well done. *00:04* I am well, Logan. *00:04* One th quick thing on that, and I know we'll probably talk about this uh *00:04* And you really you get to explore empathy for the people that you spent the front half of the game. *00:04* We can do that. *00:04* Like he actually decided to tell her the truth and is like, yeah, this is what happened. *00:04* You know, he he owned the aquarium and all this sort of stuff. *00:04* And I think that also shows when they go to Santa Barbara, and you see that like Abby writes to Owen. *00:04* I really didn't think they were going to be so instrumental, especially Lev. *00:04* Yeah, and I I just it's just very convenient. *00:04* So I kinda left and just did the next objective and moved the story forward. *00:04* One is against a human, one is against, you know, an infected. *00:04* Because again, the last year is very much of that to this day I feel like. *00:04* Uh TNT specifically. *00:04* Joel dies. *00:04* I remember um kind of the the midpoint, early, the kind of the climax one of the I guess one of the climaxes of the game is the aquarium. *00:04* Let's talk about specifically the WLF or the wolves and the seraphytes and or the scars. *00:04* Well I think to a certain I think Isaac *00:04* She more seemed like a I fight for my friends type in some regards where she was *00:04* And then I had more enemies, and that led to a lot of think on your feet, quick reactionary scenarios for me. *00:04* And I felt like that was more obvious in Lost Legacy. *00:04* You like doing all that stuff. *00:04* It equally shows off what a great studio can do at the end of a generation. *00:04* Uh yeah. *00:04* com if you want to keep up with me. *00:04* And uh we're coming about this at a time where conversation around this game is hot, there's a lot of interesting opinions out there. *00:04* And I think I texted you at this one about this at one point, but it's far more a game about *00:04* Yeah. *00:04* It was it was an issue from the top down, especially with the WLF. *00:04* That's cool. *00:04* Maybe not like I guess it's just poor writing. *00:04* So you well there's like I feel like there was too many of them, too, honestly. *00:04* And I again I know it's like a brutal world and you're not supposed to really have that mindset. *00:04* Um overall, I I guess in a general sense, um *00:04* Uh I don't know, every all the involvement of all the different tracks and all the different uh all the different licensed and non-licensed music. *00:04* Like Red Dead's a really pretty game as well. *00:04* And I think actually that's a disservice to a lot of things because *00:04* They smartly, you know, kill him off in the beginning and give you it's like, oh *00:04* It feels real. *00:04* I don't know about you. *00:04* And I felt I genuinely felt bad for Owen. *00:04* And I I I think that was really cool. *00:04* Like I would prefer to just go full auto in a lot of these situations because I thought it was easier. *00:04* I tried to also uh force myself to use like *00:04* Yeah. *00:04* I get tired of any game these days when I play it for 200 *00:04* Wow, what a great final game for the PS3. *00:04* It won't let you shoot them. *00:04* Like you said, they earned the part two in the name, and that's impressive. *00:04* And Uncharted is obviously a different vibe and feel and it's not. *00:04* And they will just they will just cut it all together. *00:04* Yeah. *00:04* It was I was always on the move. *00:04* I mean part of it is just because like I said, I just come off a plane of Survivor one where it's like you're *00:04* Like the they are two halves of the same hole now. *00:04* So so yeah. *00:04* Or vice versa. *00:04* Yeah, very good girl. *00:04* Just it's implied. *00:04* And then he just outright tells her the truth, which I thought was good and she breaks down and uh *00:04* It just Jesse's really cool, easy to like, easy going, he *00:04* It's like what? *00:04* Um and I feel like this might be a good place to close out kind of some story stuff. *00:04* And I thought it was kind of strange that Joel was so quick to trust them. *00:04* But I didn't feel like it was like wholly reinventing the wheel, which I'm not asking it to do, I guess. *00:04* Uh, especially when you're talking about media and art in whatever form, whether it's film, music or whatever. *00:04* Through just an all-out war, you know, violent to end all violence. *00:04* I feel like some of that would have been a little bit better if you could have jumped through some of that rather than wading through all of these sections full of enemy encampment and then *00:04* I think it I think they could have done some way more interesting things because Abby was clearly there. *00:04* More room to play around in the combat situations, more areas to kind of *00:04* I also feel like they didn't incorporate enough of the things that we were talking about. *00:04* Well, it's like, yeah, I know it's a last of us game at the end of the day, but I don't know. *00:04* I think the one other thing I have to say about the size of this game is not only that sometimes I felt like it made combat encounters *00:04* Also, the most boss fights I think any Naughty Dog game has had in quite some time. *00:04* The LA fight between where you play as Abbey got I got *00:04* Yes. *00:04* Really until the very end when she just kind of flies out of nowhere and ster tries to start attacking Abby. *00:05* Oh, we're way back here in this our village is way in the middle of this island. *00:05* She still has certain character attributes that we can identify with. *00:05* Well maybe I saw that maybe I'll get an item later, like a rope or something. *00:05* I was like, when is that stuff gonna happen? *00:05* And so I'm excited on the second playthrough to go through and explore everything because it's actually one of the trophies. *00:05* Really fun design, especially the one clicker that crawls out of it. *00:05* Um Yeah, to me this game was really *00:05* Her friends are messed up by it. *00:05* So Manny, Manny's very quick to like, easy. *00:05* I was like, okay, all right. *00:05* There it kind of you you brought up Banjo Tooie. *00:05* I was like, wait, can I just chuck this to Ellie's face? *00:05* The gameplay wore out its welcome a little bit more for me this time. *00:05* And it's not a game without fault, but it's a game that I don't feel like *00:05* Whether you think it's a ten out of ten masterpiece or not, the it's undeniably special in the way that it was *00:05* Robot as well? *00:05* Even though we knew leading into this that uh they were gonna hand the reins over to Ellie. *00:05* And it's not necessarily or entirely reflected in the people you're playing as. *00:05* It's like, oh, because we betrayed our cult and we don't or we *00:05* And I think Abby also *00:05* And it's i again, if you had just told me that ahead of time. *00:05* And in The Last of Us it wasn't just like an infinite spawning like, oh these enemies are coming in. *00:05* It's it's a fair and very interesting question. *00:05* That's the first thing though, and that really is the *00:05* I mean half the half the campaign is probably hers, yeah. *00:05* We've got there's so many intertwining threads. *00:05* Okay. *00:05* Like, that's terrible. *00:05* He's kind of like the Jesse of that half, so to speak. *00:05* It's two people that don't like each other in the beginning, and then in the end they end up becoming *00:05* I'm worried about this because we specifically haven't really been talking about the gameplay together. *00:05* I had just I mean, literally, so if you listen to episode one of chapter select here in this frame, *00:05* I mean, y look at Uncharted Four, it took a lot from The Last of Us with Libertalia and dilapidated buildings and overgrowth and just beauty coming through, you know, nature reclaiming places. *00:05* To me, I what I meant by that, I guess, was *00:05* Stop. *00:05* I could do this in the last game. *00:05* I think I did too. *00:05* Um I wish that they could have had I wish they could have had more license stuff for real bands rather than walking in rooms and seeing like *00:05* I think it's one of those weird things where it's like, I don't know how you can get to the end of this game and *00:05* But uh let's start getting into the story. *00:05* Well, I I think in turn too, like that a lot of this isn't explicitly ever shown or stated, but she's *00:05* So that's on me and I'm not faulting naughty dog for that. *00:05* That was really, really nice. *00:05* Uh I don't know about you, but it is unreal what they have been able to do with this game. *00:05* You're obviously a huge naughty dog fan yourself, and I guess that's gonna be well we'll we'll go over the stats here and the credits and all that stuff uh before we get into it. *00:05* I do I d I want to say really quick, typically the show in general is just gonna be spoilers all around. *00:05* Well for us less than a week ago, if you're listening to this, it's probably been a couple months, I would imagine. *00:05* Like to me that wasn't a thing of like I have to do this. *00:05* Now that has so much more context surrounding it and we'll most likely touch on that. *00:05* But then all of a sudden they switch perspective and you're suddenly like, oh *00:05* Yeah, I think the flashbacks are really *00:05* The seraphytes, I guess there's no like name for it. *00:05* I don't know, and maybe I I collected state quarters because my grandmother got me into it. *00:05* I thought they uh specifically the final fight with Abby and the the scar fight. *00:05* I think the theme that plays I think it's Abby's theme that plays most of the time is really *00:05* Uh is that Naughty Dog gets a lot of backlash for or not backlash necessarily, but people are just like, oh I I I don't know about how often you hear this, but I hear people *00:05* Um yeah, I w I'm just hoping that I guess my point is with the legacy of this game, is I'm hoping that you can mention it down the road and it just *00:05* You know, similarly, I do believe that eventually it's just gonna be like Joel dies in the second game within the first three hours. *00:05* I've already killed this dog. *00:05* But at the time, as Ellie *00:05* And it's like, no, you should probably just get out while you can before things get worse. *00:05* And I just I thought that was really interesting. *00:05* I wanna talk I wanna talk about some of the side characters at some point, but yeah let's talk about some of the flashbacks because the pr I mean honestly the third major character in this game still is Joel. *00:05* And their story is just, you know, k a kid disappointing family-friend tradition. *00:05* Like you're the person that murders the character that you played as and really like *00:05* I again I wanted to just kind of like *00:05* The truck one, the horse one, I was like, oh, this is we're going full on chart here. *00:05* Like this has to like I actively didn't want to do the things in this game that it was *00:05* But what's fascinating about Abby's *00:05* And so, you know, they're trying to get you to feel like these are real people, but only *00:05* They are not my enemy right now. *00:05* Um but I thought she I thought her purpose with the in this game *00:05* I felt just these situations I thought I was handling really well, being super sneaky, popping off here and here and here, and then someone would just kinda *00:05* It is just refining those mechanics and making them more realistic. *00:05* I felt the same way, especially about item pickups, like pills, yes. *00:05* It is incredible that it can squeeze this much out of it, but it also makes me very, very excited for the future of, you know, with the PS5 and the Xbox Series X. *00:05* It won't let you shoot a PS3. *00:05* How are you? *00:05* No, yeah, the two L's make the Y sound. *00:05* But it's not empathy that like *00:05* Um the murder that cutscene with Mel and Owen's a little bit different because that's a cutscene scene. *00:05* If I really quick, specifically just for you, but like going into the game, you knew Jesse died. *00:05* Anyway, I know we were talking about Levin Yara. *00:05* That's why they were there. *00:05* Huh. *00:05* But I thought the mechanics, unlike the sword fight, which are introduced literally in that moment. *00:05* So this is a more of a interesting episode, I s I think, especially compared to ones we'll do in the future, which are gonna be more about looking back at older games or *00:05* I'm curious where you're specifically coming at this one from, and *00:05* I don't know how you are necessarily. *00:05* Like you have to end this. *00:05* Um which I do have w one bone to pick with that, but we can maybe *00:05* Um and then you actually play as them and you're like, yes, they're a militant group, but *00:05* That's kinda how I felt about it, and also I think *00:05* I think uh outside of the one in Salt Lake, the tone of the theme was all for the most part very pleasant. *00:05* It feels like one of those real messy type of relationships. *00:05* Um do you want to talk about Yarn Lev? *00:05* Because if it if they like stroll- Well when I saw Joel show up, I knew obviously she killed him. *00:05* Yeah, I uh I'm not yeah, I'm not arguing that at all. *00:05* I just a couple more gameplay specific things. *00:05* I thought they worked really well. *00:05* I don't know if any of that makes sense. *00:05* And it just the game consistently looks great. *00:05* I am over on Twitter at Morman12. *00:05* That is true, most of the time at least. *00:05* Or I guess this isn't a weekly podcast at this point. *00:05* This is a game, personally speaking, I'm still grappling with as we were having this discussion. *00:05* So that'll do it for uh this episode of Chapter Select. *00:05* I just, it was a really cool surprise and ha forced me to ask a lot of questions. *00:06* Abby does find redemption and so I I would hope that Ellie can find it too. *00:06* The first one at the museum was largely a happy sequence, but it ends on that kind of sour note with the fireflies kind of popping back up. *00:06* That's how I felt every time I had a bottle. *00:06* And so obviously what's the fix for that? *00:06* Um, like when I got to the end and I saw how many collectibles I was missing, I was kind of shocked to a certain degree. *00:06* Because there's just so much to unpack. *00:06* Uh Snowpiercer, TNT Snowpiercer adaptation. *00:06* And um I think that's really clever. *00:06* When we first see her in that first flashback with her dad and the zebra and all that stuff *00:06* I mean I can run down the full cast and kind of give my general impressions. *00:06* Them getting the rights to future days for this game was actually awesome, and I love how they bring that up and it's just kind of like this reprise throughout the entire game that *00:06* Um except for some little one-off conversations here and there. *00:06* I mean, not even implied, just directly talked about when they enter Pittsburgh. *00:06* He's very cool, laid back, especially in the beginning of the game and things like that. *00:06* She wasn't like Nadine in the way. *00:06* I know a lot of it is because she's very *00:06* Like I I'm so I'm not looking for anything like that, I guess I should say. *00:06* That stuff's all cool. *00:06* But once I blew my cover, I didn't make any attempt *00:06* Do you have any other last nuggets of wisdom you would like to throw in here? *00:06* As for Max, you can follow him over at *00:06* I was just v uh very lucky. *00:06* Not in the way that you, the player, feel empathy. *00:06* He's just like, I I I'm tired of fighting for land I don't care about. *00:06* Or a little bit more than that. *00:06* You see that with the zebra stuff in particular. *00:06* Are we do we have that penciled in officially? *00:06* No, like they're still very much they buy into the religion, they have faith in that whole *00:06* It's like always like it always felt like Abbey's destinations were way the heck away. *00:06* My one big issue with especially the opening of the game, I'm talking about pacing and then I'm gonna say I felt like they needed to artificially lengthen the opening of the game. *00:06* And inevit and in these towns too, it was like, okay, well there's a building over there and there's a building right here. *00:06* It's it's so it's so Imagine what they're gonna do with ray tracing. *00:06* And this is just like I don't I really like I'm hard pressed to think of anything else that looks this game. *00:06* This game, yeah, it's just *00:06* And both of those movies do f very much feel like they are part of one larger story. *00:06* Yeah, and we selfishly kind of I think we mentioned this in the last episode, but we purposefully *00:06* Interesting. *00:06* That I get, you know, part of why you're mad. *00:06* Um so I both I liked I I liked both of those characters a fair amount. *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* Um Manny, I thought there were some interesting dynamics at play in play with her friend group. *00:06* When they when they were like we need to get a book, they were like, when we need to get to a boat. *00:06* And I guess in a game it's about hate and revenge and all these other *00:06* And so I think to a certain degree some of these engagements are uh just a little bit too gaudy, whereas I preferred the *00:06* And I I immediately I was like, ugh, is that really what this is gonna be like? *00:06* I um I did the same thing. *00:06* I was really happy that they found a way to incorporate that kind of stuff that they're really known for. *00:06* As you can see, we are kind of recording this out of order, but uh *00:06* I think particularly in the video game industry *00:06* But they are, you know, you see what Joel's journey led him. *00:06* It's just fodder in front of you and *00:06* If you look in Ellie's room, there's like pictures of them and art and things like that. *00:06* Um again, I get that they had to get I to me it just came across the r the way that they wrote that, it just seemed very much like *00:06* Seattle, it's always raining. *00:06* Joel dying at the start of this game is gonna be such a wide open known *00:06* Um obviously up front if you've not played the game *00:06* You just have to you act it out through the controller. *00:06* Yeah, they thought that he was there. *00:06* I was like, when 'cause I remember in some of the pre-release footage that like there was a shot of Ellie by herself riding through this *00:06* Let's cross over Uncharted and The Last of Us. *00:06* All those things prove to be true, so to then say, yeah, that's my favorite game that I love to play is like *00:06* And it wasn't even known. *00:06* Um not saying I wouldn't go out of travel across the country to kill somebody necessarily. *00:06* It it causes *00:06* It doesn't mean that you're like *00:06* Just did. *00:06* That said, man, I *00:06* You know what that thing is called? *00:06* I've been listening to it throughout the day and it's *00:06* Um but even then I'd still say we're probably processing a lot of what this game throws at you. *00:06* And I my *00:06* Every time you kill someone, it's like and it's just like *00:06* Um, but the way that they do it *00:06* Okay, I'm headed that way. *00:06* Which is strange 'cause there's like no light in that sequence other than the torch. *00:06* So for Naughty Dog to then go in a direct to have those resources and not make a quote unquote safe game like they could have is uh *00:06* What how do you think they capitalized on it as a whole? *00:06* And it it *00:06* Why are you not letting me swap the bricks? *00:06* Ellie will just turn to the camera and go, Well, I thought I was out and they pull me back in *00:06* But these two groups in Seattle and even the group down in Santa Barbara that you meet in the back half of the game *00:06* I don't like that the way Joel died *00:06* You did? *00:06* Quick two-part series here to kick off the *00:06* Uh Haley Gross. *00:06* I think it's an extremely, extremely good one. *00:06* I knew I I had a pit in my stomach as soon as you take over as Abbey within the first hour of the game. *00:06* Like you've got to stop. *00:06* I've already I beat it with a pipe. *00:06* Let's um let's get into some more character centered stuff ca rather than talking broad strokes. *00:06* They're very they're two sides of the same coin. *00:06* And then wait, that's not Yeah, and I was like, wait a minute, that's not the Joel they showed in the pre-release footage for this *00:06* I never was staying in one spot, just kind of picking everyone off. *00:06* There was kind of this *00:06* It was like get these three things, I go forward and because there was like a distinct side quest in that game that was like, Dave, you *00:06* And really cool. *00:06* Just realistic human *00:06* Uh I'm doing pretty good. *00:07* I I felt like it was super *00:07* It it's a long payoff. *00:07* Especially 'cause like Rafe was the main bad guy. *00:07* And it just felt like I don't want to say anything *00:07* Uh whereas Ellie, despite Ellie turning into this uh just *00:07* And a lot of times I found too, and the reason I bring this up is because a lot of times I f would find that I'd go off the beaten path or I'd spend extra time in these areas trying to *00:07* Yeah, I I think that is the most impressive thing to me, is that I have long been *00:07* We're even invoking its name. *00:07* Yeah, I mean I know it's a whole different conversation. *00:07* Or or or all of her levels, I should say. *00:07* Whereas Ellie's I thought were a little bit different in some instances where it's like *00:07* Like, we know these like aspects of her personality to a certain degree. *00:07* They do the thing in this game where *00:07* Like I tried to expand and use the new mechanics and stuff too. *00:07* We'll see how I feel with uh if I try to dive back into persona here pretty soon and I'm like, oh man, I'm fifty hours into this game now. *00:07* And we hope you join us for whatever future seasons of the show we have in store. *00:07* Yeah, it's not normal emotional setting for people. *00:07* My goal is just simply to get to this hut to see this mother and to save Lev. *00:07* Maybe a little more than that, but honestly Troy it was a pretty short shoot for Troy. *00:07* So for me to then clear out all the enemies on all those areas and then *00:07* Because obviously right now sitting in where we're at, it's very divisive. *00:07* I am your host today, Logan Moore. *00:07* And I think yes. *00:07* I think that's the best place to *00:07* Um and I think that's a really *00:07* Then you start up as Abby. *00:07* Ah, Joe. *00:07* Oh man, that that that one killed me. *00:07* So yeah, let's uh let's speed things up just a little bit. *00:07* Anyway, um I don't think Abby's a bad character. *00:07* There were a lot of places to slip into and out of and hide under and through. *00:07* So that kind of makes some sense. *00:07* I they weren't bloated, it wasn't something new, it *00:07* It's the same way I feel with this one. *00:07* I mean these are the types of games that Naughty Dog has been making for *00:07* And Naughty Dog kinda flipped their script this time around and you play as the second main character of this game within the opening hour. *00:07* I'm trying to figure out how we want to break this down because again, there is so many different layers of this story to discuss *00:07* Um which is *00:07* I'm waiting for the YouTube video that *00:07* They're very peaceful. *00:07* He he definitely was a person that had big dreams and was *00:07* Lo and behold, it happened back in the beginning of the game. *00:07* And I did. *00:07* Also, why can't I shoot a PS3 Sony? *00:07* I want to shoot a Sony console, Sony. *00:07* And the composer this time once again was Gustavo Santos. *00:07* That's I've yeah that's interesting because I I do I feel like *00:07* I you know, early on uh E3 2018 they *00:07* And you I again I think you can quickly empathize with it just on a *00:07* And I think it also now in hindsight portrays her obsession. *00:07* Let's move on from the story. *00:07* Hey, in this game, you can't do that. *00:07* I think that's where their heart lies. *00:07* I don't know. *00:07* Woo-hoo. *00:07* That's right. *00:07* And that really hits home. *00:07* Or maybe I don't know. *00:07* Just and I think that's just because the game *00:07* So, you know, it's implied in the first game, you know, Joel *00:07* And I don't think she's that h the version of Abby we meet when she's *00:07* Uh *00:07* Again, if he's gonna die at the end of the day, he's *00:07* Yes. *00:07* Well we thought like we thought God of War was like staggering two years ago. *00:07* He's just a cool laid-back, really great soldier, kind of Abby's friend. *00:07* He always tried to bring Abby's seriousness down. *00:07* That was good. *00:07* That would be totally something I would do in this type of stuff. *00:07* And not *00:07* But ammo in particular, and maybe I'm a terrible shot. *00:07* It's like you see these people uh when you're playing as Ellie it *00:07* I think it adds a really great sense of dread. *00:07* Because I didn't try to like beat a clicker over the head with a bottle. *00:07* But *00:07* Uh they added a few things here and there. *00:07* Then you could get up and roll. *00:07* Well I I should have *00:07* Very much appreciated. *00:07* I didn't find any. *00:07* Oh, did it take you a while to figure that out? *00:07* Yes. *00:07* But it also really is the first major thing that happens in this game. *00:07* And really it was just they're they're people fighting over this space in this land *00:07* Like the reason that they acted the way they did is because Isaac was unhinged. *00:07* You know, this is the exact order of the events in the game. *00:07* Owen and Mel are the two they really hone in on. *00:07* You're right that the main focus is Abby, Owen, and Mel. *00:07* Like I I can't see anybody having public discourse about that game where it just becomes *00:07* Like I I don't think *00:08* Yeah, it's much more it's much more yeah, pulp action-y, yeah. *00:08* But yeah, it it really was because Lev shaved her head or his head. *00:08* Yeah, overall I like them. *00:08* I don't have much else to say other than that. *00:08* And then the Ellie fight and the the Rat King fight. *00:08* There's a lot of *00:08* I w I very much thought the first game *00:08* And then uh Mac Quail, who uh that's the Mr. *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* This has to end. *00:08* Um I also felt kind of like it was a *00:08* But again, that happens halfway through the game. *00:08* That was really cool and fun. *00:08* I feel like they *00:08* But um *00:08* I that was like a moment, and I know that's the most amplified moment of *00:08* Cause the biggest fallout after the first game is well *00:08* But didn't she I didn't feel like she got enough of those moments throughout the game. *00:08* He's just he's easy to like. *00:08* Like they came all the way down there from Seattle. *00:08* I do think it's impressive that Naughty Duck t took *00:08* In regards to the size. *00:08* If I am still working at Dual Shockers, you can read my *00:08* Um *00:08* But *00:08* Been a while since I said as always Max Roberts, which I know you always liked, so. *00:08* Um I think broad strokes though, so *00:08* That was great how they did that. *00:08* They gave weight to *00:08* Basically just tells him, get lost, I don't need your help. *00:08* I mean they're two pretty big characters there, I think to a degree as well, that we can *00:08* Um and I know he really had no choice because there was a million *00:08* Like you can really care about a character that you didn't care for in the beginning. *00:08* I'm a brick guy. *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* Uh first question and kind of teeing this off for you to get things started, but *00:08* Is is *00:08* And she's like, okay, I I'll live in the same city as you, but I'm not having a relationship with you anymore. *00:08* Yeah, I I think man like like throwaway like ones like Nora, it's like Nora's in like *00:08* Um *00:08* And I it earned the part two in its title. *00:08* Last episode. *00:08* But yes, I think this is their best game to date. *00:08* There's green overgrowth. *00:08* Max has had this game for actually *00:08* Um obviously you would think she's probably *00:08* Um I I think them putting that scene where they kind of *00:08* I just I don't know, it never bothered me. *00:08* And I think that's really ambitious and cool. *00:08* It wasn't anything that impressed me overly. *00:08* Really great moment. *00:08* Uh it's still very *00:08* I feel like Nadine *00:08* No, I haven't figured it out. *00:08* It's kind of like the David fight in the first game. *00:08* net. *00:08* And so you get to see Abby's almost a few steps ahead of Ellie in her journey. *00:08* I just I think especially with the Abbey *00:08* Okay, I guess we're headed there. *00:08* I was I was waiting for that one. *00:08* I would open every drawer, every cabinet, like that's just how I play this game. *00:08* Whereas the last game it was a little bit more tolerable because everything was a little bit more compact *00:08* And we got ghost of Tsushima left. *00:08* I mean, Lost Legacy is also a very good game. *00:08* So, you know, with that logic it automatically theoretically should, you know, kind of bump up and be my *00:08* And I think that's *00:08* You know? *00:08* It's like yeah, okay, I get it. *00:08* And I'll just come back and be able to do this later. *00:08* So this is the first time that uh *00:09* You got you found a mom and pop shop that had the game on the shelf. *00:09* And then later *00:09* Like, I know what's gonna happen to them. *00:09* But the they had to *00:09* I really liked getting to know both of them. *00:09* I thought there was going to be more, so I kind of I did explore *00:09* I mean their next game will likely be this *00:09* No, don't don't don't tell people yet. *00:09* There's *00:09* I like Dina. *00:09* I talked about it that one of the things there with Abby's sections *00:09* Let me carry a brick. *00:09* And I think we can touch on these pretty quick. *00:09* Two years. *00:09* Uh I didn't *00:09* She knew where Joel was. *00:09* Um I kept thinking of Hotline Miami 2. *00:09* And I found that there was a significant *00:09* It is *00:09* And so it's less so that the games are just visually prettier and it's more just that *00:09* Let's see how that goes. *00:09* Again, I feel like this will be uh *00:09* Dina did feel fleshed out to me in that way, and especially she carries a lot of weight *00:09* Yara getting killed in the way she *00:09* Like there was a fluidity but weight to all of the movement in the game *00:09* Um and a lot of times I'd go off the beaten path and I wouldn't really find anything. *00:09* Uh I am joined. *00:09* It's really this whole game, it was it's just it's interesting to me *00:09* Like, cause I don't view her as the same character anymore. *00:09* Like it's implied that she's Isaac, who is the head of the WLF. *00:09* Uh because to me every single one of her levels was like, where do I need to go? *00:09* The other place that I really preferred the first game in this in that area uh comes with scavenger. *00:09* They don't want their con their uh *00:09* This is and this is applicable in any sort of *00:09* Like I know when you play games they want you to embody the character and it's almost *00:09* Like um and that's what I think is the most interesting part of this whole game, was that *00:09* Jesse I also generally liked and thought was cool, wish we could have gotten to know him a little bit more. *00:09* I didn't feel much of a connection to her character by the end of the game, and that's not to say *00:09* This is cool. *00:09* I didn't want to kill I didn't want to kill Mel to begin with. *00:09* Yeah, I think the th the thing there's a lot of parallels. *00:09* I feel like the pregnancy *00:09* Well I did the first time and she dodged it. *00:09* It's good *00:09* Let me do it. *00:09* And it's kind of interesting because normally *00:09* Um *00:09* They just *00:09* Anyway, um So yeah, The Last of Us Part Two *00:09* So you're probably hearing this and the game's been out for a while, so I'm sure aspects such as *00:09* She was gonna be the main character moving forward and that she was really going to take *00:09* And as I play the game now for the second time, I feel *00:09* A we have a connection to him. *00:09* Like that's one of the last times in *00:09* Had a lot of fun with that. *00:09* Uh I'm gonna assume you haven't actually listened to the soundtrack on its own. *00:09* It's a great film. *00:09* And it's that's only possible because you do play as the two of them. *00:09* Like I've never I've never hit an animal in my life. *00:09* And then when she finally does like she's still *00:09* That threw me for a loop. *00:09* Well, Max, here's my biggest issue with this game. *00:09* One of the things *00:09* Last question. *00:09* And *00:09* But that felt like something she did because her dad did, I guess. *00:09* It was just a wow, there's a lot more going on here than I'm aware of. *00:09* I like kind of checking off every house and exploring it. *00:09* I mean again this game is 25 to 30 hours or so *00:09* Yeah, I didn't know what it's called. *00:09* So maybe I've like just *00:09* I think that's something that really good T V shows can do, you know, make you *00:09* Again, the verticality of the levels is it's levels are more vertically designed, which I think *00:09* Like I'm just gonna be able to max out a skill tree, like I'm not gonna have to *00:09* Did you try to shoot a PS3? *00:09* I guess uh *00:10* And you actually get to see Abby's *00:10* Nor is there essentially as a friend and a *00:10* So when she's like, here, I'm here to help if whatever, I'm like, oh *00:10* And we th I mean there was there's so much we more we could unpack with this. *00:10* It's just a very *00:10* How many years has it been since I've *00:10* Like, I don't know about you, but I felt like a Ellie was just going too far and she needed to *00:10* Joel did some pretty messed up stuff to stay alive. *00:10* But uh she had less identifiable *00:10* I don't want this bottle. *00:10* The truck chase with Jesse. *00:10* Super cool. *00:10* Uh I definitely like those as well *00:10* I wish *00:10* And it's also that interesting kind of love triangle and *00:10* Yeah, not even that, but just the person that kills Joel, you're gonna end up *00:10* Naughty Dog fan number one. *00:10* But *00:10* I think I agree with that to a certain *00:10* And I think she's way more multifaceted now. *00:10* Um *00:10* But I do I wish *00:10* Do you what do you what do you personally just so we have this on the record, what do you actually want *00:10* And I think that helps *00:10* I used to collect state quarters. *00:10* Yeah. *00:10* I think it would have been more interesting if they could have like *00:10* I think she served as a perfect foil to Ellie in a lot of ways. *00:10* I had three I've had three health kits on me throughout throughout the whole game. *00:10* I was like, where's the why can't you oh *00:10* She knew he was in Jackson. *00:10* But the way that the light illuminates off that torch and just gives a *00:10* I've not seen anything like this since *00:10* I I wanna talk about these side characters that they introduced here. *00:10* Uh that are f Yes, he does a lot of the combat music. *00:10* Um *00:10* And I think that makes his death hit much harder, much quicker. *00:10* I I know that's like *00:10* Make a spy game. *00:10* Yeah. *00:10* To me *00:10* It's it works within the world of The Last of Us. *00:10* Did you play on uh normal? *00:10* Maybe it's kind of *00:10* Yes. *00:10* So, until next time for Max and myself. *00:10* There's nothing to fight for. *00:10* And you kinda can look at *00:10* Yeah. *00:10* And I know they sped some of them up with like getting the horse in that last section. *00:10* Let's get into problems I have, if that *00:10* I seriously believe that the *00:10* Yeah, I think Gears 5's uh *00:10* But that was the best way to go about it, but *00:11* I wasn't expecting that one *00:11* Throw it on the ground. *00:11* Like it is *00:11* You say his last name better than I do. *00:11* I think the thing that really stuck with this game to me *00:11* And you could tell that there was just this *00:11* I'm curious. *00:11* It is called it is called the Rat King. *00:11* I I feel like *00:11* Whereas if you told me it still followed Ellie, I would be interested *00:11* It was very much the lost legacy in that regard. *00:11* Um we'll it'll be okay. *00:11* I just it just *00:11* Absolutely. *00:11* We can just talk about this openly on social platforms and stuff. *00:11* It was more just like I was *00:11* But I think the other cycle is more like an internal one with these *00:11* And then the um the big scythe *00:11* Um *00:11* I didn't try to shoot a PS3 *00:11* Robot person. *00:11* And it's *00:11* And this time around *00:11* I was *00:11* I don't know about nuggets of wisdom, but it *00:11* Like there was a dread building in me. *00:11* Honestly, Gears 5 *00:11* Cause we played as him in the last game *00:11* Yeah. *00:11* Yeah, he got his check and went home pretty quick. *00:11* Well no. *00:11* And that applied to the enemies, too. *00:11* And the game *00:12* My problem was that I just *00:12* Yes. *00:12* Um *00:12* It's a. *00:12* I you know you knew she was. *00:12* And I just *00:12* Make a spy game that'd be interesting. *00:12* Um *00:12* That's the Mr. *00:12* I didn't really test it. *00:12* I did. *00:12* She's like his *00:12* She should have tried to get *00:12* I mean we could *00:12* We're done. *00:12* So *00:12* Um I think Ellie's probably the *00:12* Robot guy. *00:12* But um *00:12* Um *00:12* I assume *00:12* Not sure if I want to keep playing this. *00:13* And I think that *00:13* Um *00:13* I don't want to spend too much time on *00:13* Like I never ran out. *00:13* That is very stressful. *00:13*