# Chapter Select, [[S1E1 - Paper Mario]] Transcript
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My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy.
---
Hello everybody and welcome to season one of Chapter Select, where we bounce back and forth between series of games exploring their evolution, design, and legacy.
*00:00*
And for season one
*00:09*
We are covering the Paper Mario series.
*00:11*
My name is Max Roberts and I am joined, as always, by Logan Moore.
*00:13*
Hey Logan.
*00:17*
Hey, you stole my line or what you stole my line.
*00:18*
I did start my line.
*00:21*
I channeled your energy as always.
*00:22*
I'll have to use that on the episodes that I host.
*00:25*
We'll just keep tossing it back and forth to one another.
*00:27*
We'll share it together.
*00:29*
Um
*00:31*
If this is your first time listening to Chapter Select, uh this is season one.
*00:31*
And if you actually look in the podcast feed, you'll find season zero, uh, which is we recorded
*00:36*
last year in 2020 as like a test run for the series with The Last of Us.
*00:42*
And if you're unfamiliar, we basically play through game series front to
*00:46*
back but bouncing back and forth.
*00:51*
So with Paper Mario we're gonna play we've already played the first Paper Mario game and then the next episode is going to be about the origami king and Thousand Your Door and so on and so on.
*00:54*
And we chose the Paper Mario series because we thought we were gonna do this last year in 2020.
*01:04*
And we technically started it.
*01:10*
We could sort of.
*01:11*
No, we we we did the f season zero
*01:13*
And then we um we started Paper Mario, but I got too far ahead, you were too far behind, we stopped playing it, and then we kind of reconvened and said we want to do this and we decided to finish out
*01:16*
Paper Mario.
*01:29*
Max, I don't know if you know this, but 2020 was a year filled with strife and confusion and uh lot of other things and uh
*01:30*
Kind of just fell by the wayside.
*01:37*
I also needed to not do anything else but play Persona 5 until I beat that game, so that kind of dominated like two months of my gaming time.
*01:39*
So
*01:47*
There's that.
*01:48*
It's okay.
*01:49*
I I apparently spent 90 hours playing The Last of Us Part 2 and another 80 playing The Last of Us.
*01:49*
So, you know.
*01:55*
You spent 80?
*01:56*
Oh, you did play the multiplayer stuff, though.
*01:57*
That's right.
*01:59*
I th I went for the platinum before they shut those servers off someday.
*01:59*
I'll never get that PS3 platinum and I'm sad about it.
*02:03*
But we're not here to talk about The Last of Us.
*02:06*
We did that already.
*02:08*
You can go listen to that if you would like.
*02:09*
Today we're gonna talk about Paper Mario for the Nintendo 64, which, ironically or cleverly planned, uh actually just turned twenty in the United States.
*02:11*
like five days ago from this recording.
*02:22*
Uh on February fifth, two thousand one.
*02:24*
It came out in Japan in August of two thousand.
*02:26*
It was developed by Intelligent Systems and then published by Nintendo for the Nintendo 64.
*02:29*
I'm gonna try my best to pronounce the game director's names.
*02:35*
Directed by Ryota Kware uh Tashitaka Muromatsu.
*02:39*
Takahiro Ogi and then Hiberonobu Suzuki.
*02:49*
That's my best shot at that.
*02:54*
I think you did a pretty good job for the most part there.
*02:56*
Take a take a bow, American white man for
*02:58*
who uh really is only good at saying a few Japanese people's names.
*03:03*
I would hope that the producer Shigeru Miyamoto is one of those, and then Kenji Miki was another producer on the game.
*03:07*
And then the music was done by Yuka Sujioko.
*03:14*
Try that?
*03:20*
That's how I would say that.
*03:21*
Alright, we'll take it.
*03:23*
Um, who's done music for other intelligent system series, including Fire Emblem?
*03:24*
Uh the game has a metacritic score of
*03:30*
93 through 100, and you can go maybe buy the cartridge for like over $100.
*03:34*
It's a little ridiculous.
*03:39*
And I thought we should talk about our experience with the series.
*03:40*
before we dive into the specifics of what we thought about Paper Mario.
*03:44*
So Logan, what's your experience with Paper Mario?
*03:48*
Uh I mean so the fact that this game just turned 20 years old is really bizarre to me because I remember
*03:51*
Going to pick this game up at Blockbuster and renting it and playing around with it.
*03:57*
And I had told you before we started this that like I
*04:03*
I think when I was a kid I ridden it from Blockbuster a time or two and I got to the desert area and I had never proceeded past that because I got confused on how to do things there.
*04:06*
That's when thing
*04:14*
Yeah, we can talk about that area later, but things get a little hard to navigate unless you are reading a lot.
*04:16*
And uh I was seven years old I think or six maybe.
*04:22*
So uh didn't really know what I was doing.
*04:26*
Um
*04:29*
So I never got much further than that.
*04:30*
Um, so that was 20 years ago.
*04:33*
Wow.
*04:35*
But yeah, so I had played a little bit of that paper Mario and then basically played the completion Thousand Year Door and
*04:35*
Other than that, I have n dabbled in Super Paper Mario and I have not played anything past that.
*04:43*
Yeah, for the most part, a lot of what we experience in this is going to be totally new on my end, uh, which I am
*04:49*
That was one of the reasons why honestly we chose the series, I think, was because we both like this series and we like this franchise quite a bit, but it's also one we have not
*04:55*
Played a lot of surprisingly?
*05:05*
We have very high thing regards for Thousand Year Door, and then we have not followed it up and experienced many of the other games in the series.
*05:07*
I think that will reveal itself as we play through these games, including some in the middle.
*05:15*
Our similar our histories are very similar in the sense that I remember being aware of Paper Mario but never actually renting it or playing it
*05:20*
And then really what clicked was Thousand Year Door.
*05:28*
I actually would play the demo at um it was either a Target or a Walmart or something, but I'd play it 'cause I remember it was at Hooktails Castle and it had the the paper airplane mechanic and I just thought that was cool.
*05:31*
So I ended up buying that game, uh uh or my parents bought it for me, and then dabbled in Super Paper Mario, like borrowed it from someone, and then I also dabbled a little bit in Sticker Star, but
*05:42*
Uh never really followed through and then color splash just didn't seem it seemed like more sticker star, so I didn't jump on that train.
*05:54*
And then uh we have Origami King now, which we both bought.
*06:03*
We bought it launch and haven't played yet.
*06:06*
Bought at launch the same day as Ghost of Tsushima for the PS4.
*06:08*
Wow.
*06:13*
It was the same day.
*06:13*
Turns out Origami King might be the better game that came out on that day.
*06:15*
Could be, and possibly not as long, because I know we both uh got the platinum and ghost and it was
*06:19*
At least according to my playtime, roughly fifty hours for that one.
*06:25*
That was the game I played the most last year, I think, on PlayStation for me.
*06:28*
Oh, other than Persona.
*06:33*
And then technic we decided not to include it, but there's still Mario and Luigi Paper Jam.
*06:35*
It was like Paper Mario is technically in it.
*06:40*
I've never played that either.
*06:42*
Yes.
*06:43*
So if you're looking forward to our paper jam thoughts, that'll not be there.
*06:43*
Maybe we'll do a Mario and Luigi.
*06:46*
So really I I I even remember trying to emulate
*06:49*
uh paper Mario on my computer back in probably middle school or high school.
*06:54*
Like this game is on something I always wanted to go back to.
*06:59*
And it I guess it just took uh deciding to make a podcast for me to actually go back and play it.
*07:01*
We both played it the same way this time, right?
*07:06*
Uh on our Wii Us.
*07:09*
Yeah.
*07:11*
Yeah.
*07:11*
The Wii U, Nintendo's best
*07:12*
home console system clearly, because we still have it hooked up to our TVs.
*07:14*
That is a weird thing that I have a Wii U still hooked up to the same TV that I now have an Xbox Series X and a PlayStation 5 hooked up to.
*07:18*
That's a
*07:26*
My entertainment center is like very comical now.
*07:27*
Reggie would be proud.
*07:30*
It's the most accessible way to play this game for sure.
*07:32*
Like I mentioned earlier.
*07:35*
Getting a real cartridge is gonna run you between eighty and a hundred dollars.
*07:37*
I saw it at a store the other day for I wanna say ninety.
*07:40*
This game's expensive
*07:44*
Well I guess for good reasons.
*07:45*
I people love it a lot.
*07:47*
I think it a lot of it is wrapped up in love for its sequel, um, which we'll explore later.
*07:48*
I think I think any Nintendo first party games are
*07:54*
Like if somewhat retained their value though, like maybe this one a little bit more.
*07:58*
But like I feel like even if you run across like a Super Mario 64 uh
*08:02*
Ogre when you have time, it's still thirty, forty bucks that you're for the cartridge alone that you're finding most of the time.
*08:06*
So Yeah.
*08:11*
It's there's a lot of love.
*08:13*
especially in a community for this type of game.
*08:16*
Mostly I think because of its world and structure and like the characters, I think it's a very charming game.
*08:19*
And that's kind of what.
*08:26*
sticks with you the most afterward?
*08:28*
Do you want to just dive in right to that, to like the world and the characters and stuff?
*08:31*
I realized when we restarted playing it back here in January, they really, I think, stick to this paper aesthetic
*08:36*
A lot more so than they do in the middle of the series, and then they actually come back to later in sticker start and stuff, where like there's tape and paper and like
*08:44*
I don't know, the world seems very flat and aware that it is an arts and crafts thing.
*08:55*
And is I think this might be the first Nintendo game that adopted like the Arts and Crafts art style.
*09:00*
How do you feel about like
*09:05*
the the origins of the actual like paper Mario thing.
*09:07*
Cause the series has drifted from it and then come back to its paper aesthetic, but like is the paper really an essential part of
*09:10*
why these games are so beloved?
*09:17*
Yeah, I mean I think from the get-go they definitely were.
*09:19*
Um again, we'll talk about it more with the future ones that we do, but uh
*09:22*
Kind of like you mentioned, I I know they stick a little bit more closely to it here in the first view with this and Thousand Year Door.
*09:27*
Um, and then they start to
*09:33*
uh mix things around a tad bit.
*09:35*
Um I I think they have always played around with it though, just in different ways.
*09:37*
Like even Color Splash tried some different things out with the whole
*09:41*
I don't know.
*09:45*
I don't know a lot about that game.
*09:46*
We still haven't played it, but I know you can run around and smack and color things up with your hammer or something like that.
*09:47*
Yeah, you can paint.
*09:52*
Paint everything.
*09:53*
So I feel like they've always kind of dabbled with uh paper mechan paper
*09:54*
stylization in different ways between certain games.
*09:58*
Um it's definitely more blatantly obvious in this one though, because this was the first one.
*10:01*
And yeah, it's definitely got that sort of charm in all those areas.
*10:06*
I the thing I like about it
*10:10*
is that it's supposed to feel like a book you're reading and that's why it's paper, like, um, because when you think about it, the reason for make it paper, you're there's really no like discernible reason.
*10:12*
Like, well paper Mario, who the heck why who thought this up
*10:22*
But it's supposed to be like a storybook.
*10:26*
It's supposed to be like a pop-up book that you're reading in all of the different areas in the game that you are looking at.
*10:27*
Like if you come to the edge of it, it looks like a book.
*10:33*
or whatever.
*10:36*
Um, or that's kind of how I interpreted that, and I assume that that's supposed to be what it is, because the opening of the game kind of reads like, oh, let me tell you a story or whatever.
*10:37*
And so I assume they're going for like a pop-up paper thing, uh paperbook thing, then that's kind of the impression that I got from it.
*10:47*
No idea if that's totally correct or if you if you thought the same thing, but uh That's definitely the vibe.
*10:55*
I think it's absolutely a storybook kind of thing.
*11:01*
And I
*11:04*
I guess it is charming that it is like everyone's flat.
*11:06*
You're moving around like this arts and crafty world, but it's not actually made out of
*11:11*
necessarily identifiable objects like something like Yoshi's woolly world where it's clearly like this is a paper plate and cups and foil and things.
*11:18*
And they didn't necessarily have obviously that technology back in two thousand, but
*11:26*
There's still like an element of charm to it that I think also lent itself to playing with the Mario world and it
*11:32*
in a way that it hadn't before necessarily and frankly still doesn't get to be dabbled in all that much.
*11:43*
Yeah.
*11:49*
Was it the Icy Place?
*11:50*
I don't remember the name of the
*11:51*
specific town, but like a main character characters in that environment are the ninjas.
*11:53*
And I got excited when I saw them.
*11:59*
I was like, is this where this ninja character comes from?
*12:01*
That's like in Super Mario
*12:03*
you and whatever.
*12:05*
Apparently they are an enemy in Super Mario Bros.
*12:06*
too.
*12:09*
I looked this up.
*12:09*
Ninjas are th but they they dabble with these characters that you don't like they put them in the spotlight that you don't normally see.
*12:10*
In Mario.
*12:17*
Apparently, Watt is like a baby version of the Sun you see in Super Mario Bros.
*12:18*
3, I think.
*12:23*
Like that type of Oh, the thing that chases you or whatever?
*12:25*
This is my understanding of it, yeah.
*12:28*
Like
*12:29*
They get to do weird things and I think because the art style is detached from normal Mario.
*12:30*
They get to do that and it it lends itself to more creativity.
*12:39*
Yeah, let's see.
*12:42*
Watt.
*12:44*
A little sparky.
*12:44*
Apparently a little sparky.
*12:46*
Nope.
*12:47*
First appearance Super Mario World.
*12:48*
I don't get it.
*12:50*
Oh.
*12:51*
The little electric things in like Bowser's Coast.
*12:53*
Oh yeah yeah yeah.
*12:55*
I know what those are now.
*12:56*
Yeah, that makes sense.
*12:57*
Interesting.
*12:58*
Yeah, I mean there's uh
*12:59*
Th they g they get to do some more interesting character designs, I think, than normal two because of what the art style is.
*13:00*
Uh the one that I think of is I mean it's not anything
*13:06*
bombastard or anything like that, but like the the fat shy guy that you run across is really funny looking.
*13:09*
Oh, that you have to feed?
*13:15*
Yeah, you gotta make a cake for him his peach at one point.
*13:17*
That's kinda
*13:19*
It's kinda cute and fun.
*13:20*
Like Lady Bo in the um in the ca ghost cast like the booze are not enemies.
*13:22*
They are just characters in this space.
*13:28*
Like they're not
*13:30*
And heck, the first partner you get is a Goomba.
*13:32*
Like there are good Goombas and good Koopa.
*13:35*
Like it's a world of
*13:38*
good and bad types of enemies and usually I think pretty funny or just charming at the very least.
*13:40*
Like uh what are the essentially the teenage mutant ninja turtle version of the Koopas?
*13:48*
Yeah.
*13:52*
Like they they get to do fun, quirky, weird things, and I think that's what sticks.
*13:53*
in your mind twenty years later.
*13:58*
Well, you mentioned the so you mentioned the humor here and um I know speaking more broad strokes, that's one of the things that
*14:00*
Paper Mario as a whole, I think, is known for, especially the more recent entries is like I I even the criticisms you've heard of some of the more recent installments in the series, I think people the big takeaway is still like always like, oh well the writing's really good.
*14:08*
Um
*14:21*
And the writing in this game is good, but it's also feels very experimental, um, because they hadn't really started leaning into that
*14:22*
tone or voice that was found with later Nintendo games.
*14:32*
Like uh the Mario and Luigi games I think are another good example of that where I feel like Paper Mario definitely walked so that the games after it could
*14:36*
run um not only in this series but in other Nintendo uh franchises um because the it it it is it is a funny game and the writing is witty and it's clever
*14:44*
But it is also uh at times very basic and the jokes they are trying to lay on, I felt like we're never I don't know.
*14:56*
It it just like it's like
*15:04*
Uh you didn't.
*15:05*
Didn't always land.
*15:06*
Yeah, you're reading it and you're like, ha yeah, like I get what they're going for.
*15:07*
That's that's yeah, that's like it was it was funny insofar as like
*15:10*
It's funny, but it's not like something that's gonna make you laugh out loud on the spot or anything like that.
*15:15*
Where uh whereas some of the other ones I've played, like they totally are like that.
*15:20*
One one scenario that pops in my mind specifically was
*15:24*
Again, the icy town.
*15:27*
And maybe I'm thinking of this the most because it's one of the more recent stages of we've played.
*15:29*
But like the first thing you're supposed to do is go meet the mayor.
*15:33*
of the town and his wife's like, oh yeah, go on back.
*15:36*
And then he's un well, everyone thinks he's dead.
*15:41*
And you walk back and she's like, he was alive, he did it.
*15:44*
And like that came off as funny to me.
*15:48*
And I really thought it was gonna turn into a full-blown mystery because of what I know in Thousand Year Door on the train specifically.
*15:50*
But it was just like, uh, oh, go here, go upstairs and then come back and it's like, oh, the mystery's over.
*15:58*
Now you gotta go do this ice cave.
*16:03*
Like they're just scratching the surface of the real potential there.
*16:05*
And you can kind of feel that.
*16:10*
And not
*16:11*
I don't think just because I have some hindsight in the where the series can go, but it just it just feels like it's scratching the surface.
*16:12*
Yeah, there's like there's jokes in uh some of the other games that I I feel like
*16:21*
Thousand your door specifically where like it's returning gags where they like will keep bringing things up that they brought up earlier in the game and they keep coming back to.
*16:26*
Yeah.
*16:34*
Uh yeah, this one was very much
*16:34*
Like they will make jokes and then there it's kind of the just those punchlines in the moment and then the game moves forward from that point.
*16:36*
Um which is fine.
*16:43*
But yeah, it doesn't have that same sort of like investment that you like from the other games where they are referring to things that have uh happened previously and stuff like that.
*16:45*
So
*16:54*
Um yeah, the writing is good, but you can just still tell it is very early and they're still trying to figure out, okay, how far can we push this and how can
*16:55*
Like when you see that we've not played Origami King yet, but I've seen some cl clips from that game.
*17:05*
That game gets extremely meta, extremely out there when it comes to Mario, especially when you think about that in that context.
*17:11*
It is a Mario game.
*17:19*
And I I feel like they're this game definitely feels at times like they did want to push more in that direction of just the absurd and they always kind of reel themselves back in quickly being like
*17:20*
Like yeah, the whole mare sequence that you mentioned since you brought that up.
*17:32*
Like yeah, they kinda take it to the absurd craziness for a few seconds there and but it's like a five to ten minute section and then it is very much back to
*17:36*
Okay, now Mario, you need to go down the street and you need to go back to this thing and you find the stars and blah blah blah blah blah.
*17:44*
Like it it always re reels itself in back in really quickly to get you back on the main path of the game.
*17:51*
Um, which is again, not a bad thing knowing where the tone of the series goes.
*17:57*
I guess it's a little odd
*18:03*
one part in particular or series of sections I should should say that they really got to, I think, stretch the like creativity wing.
*18:05*
was those Peach interludes in between each chapter.
*18:14*
Like Peach got to do interesting different things, at least narratively.
*18:18*
Yeah, I was gonna say interesting in quotes.
*18:22*
I never really
*18:24*
The gameplay's not super thrilling, but like narratively what you're doing, that was interest like you read Bowser's diary, or you make a cake for a fat shy guy, or you um
*18:25*
You dress up as a different guard.
*18:36*
Like there's different you do a game show.
*18:38*
Like they their narrative they gotta really play around with Peach, more so I think, than Mario.
*18:40*
And that was kind of interesting.
*18:47*
You mentioned it a second ago, and I guess Peach ties into it as well with Tink.
*18:49*
What do you what do you think of this
*18:54*
like the overarching story of like save the stars.
*18:56*
Uh not great.
*18:59*
I don't know.
*19:01*
Um Yeah, not great.
*19:02*
Um it's very it's very basic.
*19:04*
I mean it's Bowser is the bad guy.
*19:06*
He's kidnapped Peach.
*19:08*
Uh there's a MacGuffin involved, which is the star odd, sort of.
*19:10*
Yeah, I guess that's sort of.
*19:15*
Um, oh, you gotta track down all the different people.
*19:17*
There's there's this many people.
*19:20*
Go find them all.
*19:22*
Very
*19:23*
uh pretty much an N64 game in that regard.
*19:24*
Go here, find this, come back.
*19:28*
Yes.
*19:31*
Um yeah, come back to the hub world in between every different section you're going to and and uh
*19:32*
I mean Thousand Year Doors is the same way in that regard.
*19:38*
So it it's very formulaic the story is.
*19:41*
But yeah, the story they're telling, it's not anything that's gonna really hit home with you.
*19:46*
And I I think again it's a Mario game, so I'm not expecting the story of the last of us.
*19:51*
It is it is very much
*19:57*
What do you expect to happen in a Mario game?
*19:59*
Peach is gonna get kidnapped.
*20:01*
Bowser's gonna be the bad guy.
*20:02*
Wishes come true.
*20:03*
Yeah, the those characters, specifically the star people and Twink or whatever.
*20:05*
None of 'em actually I thought most of the characters, but not just these star people, really didn't stand out.
*20:12*
There's a lot of 'em with mustaches.
*20:20*
That's all I can tell you.
*20:22*
There's like three or four of 'em with mustaches, I think.
*20:23*
Yeah, it well you save them and they sh show up and they're like yo what's up Mario?
*20:27*
Thanks for saving me, bro.
*20:32*
Alright, I'm gonna float back to Star Heaven now.
*20:33*
By the way, you have this ability.
*20:35*
Peace out.
*20:37*
Uh deuces.
*20:38*
And not yeah, like they don't need to play a huge role in the overarching story, I guess.
*20:40*
Like that's kind of what the
*20:45*
Uh partners are four, the companions are four.
*20:47*
That's more of the moment to moment like talking sequences, I guess.
*20:49*
But it i it is it is weird that you're spending all this time tracking down these characters throughout the whole game.
*20:53*
Yeah.
*20:58*
And the only that you have like
*20:58*
10 lines of dialogue with you and then you never really talk to them again most of the game.
*21:00*
So Yeah.
*21:04*
So partners moment to moment and like their involvement in the game.
*21:05*
Was it me or did you get partners like incredibly fast in this game?
*21:10*
Um I definitely deal them out pretty quickly.
*21:16*
Uh you get one per stage.
*21:19*
Bam, bam, bam.
*21:21*
Yeah, I guess you got two.
*21:22*
Well think about it.
*21:24*
You got Goombario or whatever up front.
*21:25*
And Cooper.
*21:29*
But then you got the Cooper, Cooper, and the Bomb in the same chapter.
*21:30*
You got them together.
*21:35*
And then what was and then you get the mailman and the dry dry ruins.
*21:37*
Tubba Blaba, you get the boo, toy box, you get the spark dude.
*21:42*
The Watt and then Sushi the Fit the Cheap Cheap on the Island.
*21:45*
And then the flower field black less.
*21:49*
Fuzzy wanna be called Spike, I think.
*21:53*
Is what he wants to be called?
*21:55*
I think Spike is what he wants to be called.
*21:56*
Um but lackluster's his name.
*21:58*
Yeah
*22:00*
Which is actually pretty clever.
*22:01*
Yeah, they give you partners pretty fast, but I feel like that also keeps it interesting.
*22:02*
I didn't find most of these characters interesting, actually.
*22:05*
I thought they were all pretty shallow.
*22:10*
I thought
*22:12*
I thought we'd get Sparky one the spark the Sparky's really bad.
*22:13*
Watt?
*22:18*
Oh.
*22:18*
And you know what's even worse?
*22:19*
Like Watt is the guy I actually ended up deciding to use in the final fight because Watts attack.
*22:20*
cuts through defen it was we'll talk about that final fight uh later for sure.
*22:27*
But that was who I ended up ending up using and I have
*22:31*
I felt like these characters weren't explored a lot.
*22:35*
Like they threw them at you really fast, and all they really boiled down to was new ways to navigate the environment.
*22:37*
They expelled the first couple, Cooper and then uh Gumbario a little bit too.
*22:44*
Cooper as well because they keep coming back to the Professor Colorado
*22:49*
character.
*22:53*
And he keeps showing up and every time he shows up it feels like Cooper has like, oh Professor Colorado, because he's like that's like his hero or whatever.
*22:54*
Um the mailman's like a pointless character.
*23:02*
I feel like he's just like, oh, I gotta deliver mail.
*23:04*
Oh, if can I deliver mail while I'm on your team?
*23:08*
Sure, then I guess I'll join you.
*23:11*
Like it was like his number one pursuit was deliver mail and then priority two was like, oh, and I guess we'll beat Bowser too if we have to do that.
*23:14*
And really his I rare I don't know about you, but I even rarely used him in battle.
*23:22*
Like all I used him for was to float over gaps.
*23:28*
Yep.
*23:31*
And the same thing with say Watt.
*23:32*
Like Watt
*23:34*
only purpose is lighting up dark caves and you only do that in two areas the where you get him in the toy box and the end in Bowser's castle which was in Who'd you use the most?
*23:36*
I use Gumbario the the most.
*23:48*
Gumbario and um Lady Bo.
*23:50*
I did not use her because her slaps didn't do a ton of damage.
*23:53*
Only one.
*23:58*
So if the defense was zero, that's when I would use her, because you can get six hits in.
*23:59*
Yeah.
*24:03*
Um but Gumbaro is who I use the most.
*24:03*
'Cause he's got the tattle and it tells you the health bars of everybody, which is I feel vital, especially for the bosses.
*24:06*
Like anytime I knew a boss was coming up, I was like, I gotta get Gumbario out of here 'cause I gotta know how much health I'm dealing with for this battle.
*24:13*
Mm-hmm.
*24:21*
And I think maybe third I'd say sushi.
*24:22*
Yeah, I use Tim of Ferram.
*24:26*
I use Sushi, Gumbario, Cooper, and
*24:27*
Lackal Easter quite a bit.
*24:31*
He has a good move where you can uh deal damage to everybody that is on the field at one single time, no matter where they're at.
*24:36*
Which is really good and really helpful.
*24:44*
I just use the bomb lady for that bombette.
*24:46*
Um Or this or sushi.
*24:49*
Sushi can do the tidal wave and like hit everyone with water.
*24:51*
So this this is a maybe a good time to bring this up since we're gonna be talking about combat a little bit and
*24:54*
There's some timing things with it and stuff like that.
*24:59*
And uh I'm curious the way we played this on the Wii U, was there any latency problems for you that you found as you played this video game?
*25:01*
Because I found that there was like
*25:10*
There'd be some times where I'd let off and I'm like, I know I'm letting off at the right time here, but it was like not tracking in the actual game that it was, and I think it was a qua e I think it was the ports problem more so than like
*25:12*
my timing's problem.
*25:24*
Like I would basically have to let go of all of my prompts in combat about half a second earlier than I would think I'm supposed to, and then they would work.
*25:25*
Um just very strange.
*25:35*
So while we both played on the Wii U, we did play with different controllers.
*25:38*
You use the gamepad, right?
*25:42*
Yeah.
*25:44*
I I used a Wiimote with a dongle and actually play with an N64 controller.
*25:45*
Oh that's right, you didn't, yeah.
*25:50*
The only time I really noticed what you're describing, like that kind of actually was with Watt.
*25:52*
Um Watt has this attack where you hold down like the A button or whatever and then let go and it lights up red.
*25:58*
But I don't know, Watt gets all glowy and stuff while this is going on.
*26:06*
And I thought I was letting go at the time, but I always would l apparently let off late.
*26:09*
So I actually stopped
*26:14*
I looked specifically like right before the thing would light up.
*26:16*
It like lit up before the bar reached it there was kind of the timing that I was seeing.
*26:19*
So I waited for it to turn red instead of the bar.
*26:24*
Um same thing would happen.
*26:27*
That's the bombette for me.
*26:28*
Or I think that's it.
*26:30*
And with emulation, there's always a little bit of
*26:32*
Input lag and I I doubt that like a Wiimote um has better latency than a gamepad.
*26:35*
Like I don't think that
*26:41*
Matters in the slightest.
*26:43*
But I I I it was there, I just didn't see it as much.
*26:45*
I'm I'm excited to play
*26:48*
The actually I think How many more are we gonna have to play like this?
*26:51*
I I guess just well you still have a wheel.
*26:55*
Well actually no.
*26:57*
I'm gonna play Super Paper Mario V with backward compatibility.
*26:59*
probably on or on the but that but in a Wii U, a Wii is in there just like a game keeper.
*27:02*
So it'd be a little true.
*27:08*
It'll be a little better.
*27:09*
It ju it should be all native.
*27:09*
So this will probably actually every other game we will be playing on
*27:12*
native hardware on some level.
*27:16*
Yeah.
*27:18*
Which will be nice.
*27:18*
I can't believe I gotta dig out my Wii to play door.
*27:20*
That's another conversation.
*27:24*
Um see you're gonna dig it all out.
*27:27*
I just I never really felt a connection to these character Like the partners I've like I said at the top, I feel like they were just excuses to navigate the environment in a new way or to get around an obstacle.
*27:30*
I don't I've never felt they really developed, except maybe beyond Gumbario and Cooper, because they're with you the longest.
*27:44*
Um there were partners heck I forgot I even had or could use.
*27:52*
And
*27:57*
it wouldn't be until a situation demanded them that I would remember, oh, they're sitting in my back pocket.
*27:58*
I think the disappointing thing to me about it too, um
*28:05*
In that regard is that the characters, even in their own specific chapters where they're supposed to be the ones that are shining in that moment, they don't really do l a lot.
*28:08*
like uh sushi and the whole Yoshi Island part.
*28:20*
He's just like oh yeah like I I try to keep an eye on these Yoshis that are around here.
*28:24*
Like I just try to help some people out.
*28:30*
Like that's basically why I'm here
*28:31*
Hop on my back and we can go for a ride.
*28:34*
Watt is just like, oh crap, I I I I fell out of this lantern and I'm just here now.
*28:36*
I guess I'm please help me.
*28:42*
I guess I'll just be with you now.
*28:44*
Uh like I feel like
*28:46*
Uh the ones they did the best were uh yeah Cooper Gumbario and then Lacolester Lycer.
*28:47*
He kind of comes out of nowhere.
*28:54*
He just flies out like he's just like, hey, I'm here
*28:56*
Um and then all you use him for is to float above some.
*28:59*
But they at least I feel like did his section a little bit better because he is a flight straight up boss at first that you have to fight.
*29:02*
And then he turns and he's like, oh, I got a girlfriend and I need to be a good boy or whatever.
*29:08*
The others don't like yeah, Watt just like comes out of nowhere and it's like, oh you fought some dude and I fell out of a lamp.
*29:15*
Uh the sushi dude is just like a babysitter.
*29:20*
Uh Mail Dude just Mail Dude sucks.
*29:24*
Mail dude's the worst character in the game.
*29:26*
And then the bomb is just like, Oh yeah, I was in jail.
*29:28*
I guess we can get out of jail if I just blow up.
*29:32*
Like
*29:35*
They don't have any specific stake really in the larger context of each of these chapters, which I guess is what I was looking for.
*29:35*
A little bit.
*29:46*
They just have they just have unwavering loyalty to Mario after he helps solve their problem.
*29:46*
Yeah.
*29:51*
It's like, oh, you help me out with this one thing.
*29:51*
Yeah, sure, let's go kill Bowser and
*29:54*
Save all the star spirits.
*29:58*
Or not kill him.
*29:59*
I guess I don't know.
*30:00*
Does Mario beat him?
*30:01*
Does Mario want to kill Bowser?
*30:02*
I don't know.
*30:03*
Is that his overall goal?
*30:03*
That would be pretty dark.
*30:06*
I guess they're do they're both like they're both like they are both like trying to kill each other, but like I don't know, they're also like friends at the same time.
*30:07*
I think of the end of like Mario Odyssey when they're like
*30:16*
Pals sort of.
*30:19*
I d I thought the partners were uh they were more disappointing than I thought.
*30:21*
Which is funny because well, I I guess
*30:26*
To just d get on this tangent real quick.
*30:28*
It's funny because the things that people have been saying they want forever is like, ah, bring back good Mario games, bring back the partners, bring back the partners.
*30:31*
And then when we play this one, it's like, oh the the partners they're not that great.
*30:39*
Um, I mean they're there and they're fun.
*30:43*
They're they're more fun to use in combat because you just have a second character.
*30:45*
I want to put a pin I want to put a pin in that.
*30:49*
Sort of.
*30:52*
For combat.
*30:52*
I won't put the pin in that for combat.
*30:53*
There's some things I would like to say about combat too.
*30:55*
So well, before we dive into that, I want to talk real quick.
*30:57*
We've talked about like world design and things like that, but
*31:02*
Did you have like a favorite world environment chapter?
*31:05*
And like what did you think of the overall, I guess, navigation of the world and how it was all connected?
*31:08*
Yeah.
*31:13*
More so than just the way it looks.
*31:14*
Uh
*31:16*
Well, if I had like a favorite, I definitely think uh I like the ice place a lot, but I'm also prone to that one because I like the music a lot, and we can talk about the music here in a second.
*31:17*
I think most of the areas though were I don't know some of them got pretty complex like we were talking before
*31:29*
Ur No, we talked about this during the show.
*31:37*
Uh not before the show.
*31:39*
Uh the j like the Dry Dry Ruins area.
*31:40*
I I think any of those places where it's like, oh, we're gonna send you out in like a wide area and there's really
*31:43*
You gotta keep very careful track of where you're going.
*31:49*
Like w how you find a big like monolith temple thing in Dry Dry Ruins is very
*31:51*
uh difficult and you have to kinda keep track of your where you're going.
*31:57*
I I looked up a guide.
*32:02*
I will m there's no shame.
*32:04*
I mean I looked up a guy.
*32:06*
I was like, I don't know.
*32:07*
I just had to tell me how to get here.
*32:08*
I just I paid close attention, but uh yeah that was not fun.
*32:10*
Everything with Tubba Blubba I thought was pretty good, although I did again
*32:14*
Once again getting to the boo thing, it was like, oh like there's a difference in the background of each one of these things and you gotta every place looks sorta the same, but sorta different and you gotta pay very close attention to the environment.
*32:18*
It's like, uh oh man, like not this again.
*32:30*
So like speaking really quick, speaking of that, I actually got th all the way up to or even I think through
*32:32*
Tubba Blubba.
*32:41*
Mm-hmm.
*32:42*
And saved and turned my Wii U back on the next day.
*32:43*
And I forgot that I saved
*32:47*
I had a save block and I loaded instead a restore point that I made on my Wii U, which was before the beginning of that chapter, and I had to replay that whole
*32:49*
Section Oh man.
*32:59*
Whole thing.
*33:01*
Forest through tubba blubba.
*33:02*
That'll do it to you.
*33:04*
Yeah, I don't use the restore point feature too often.
*33:06*
I did it as a I used it as a
*33:09*
Like a backup.
*33:11*
I would do that.
*33:12*
I would do that periodically too, but I wouldn't do it a lot because I was always like, oh no, I don't wanna
*33:14*
Totally override my data here or something like that.
*33:19*
I got mixed up.
*33:22*
I definitely made a mistake.
*33:23*
So wait, if you load into a restore point, does it automatically update your past restore point?
*33:24*
If you load a restore point, it basically overwrites wherever the ROM is.
*33:32*
So I could I quit out
*33:37*
But I couldn't get back to where you were at.
*33:39*
My previous state.
*33:41*
I will say that's a kind of a fun chapter though.
*33:43*
Toba Blubba's one of the better bad guys.
*33:45*
So yeah, that was one of it's actually my favorite environment, like thematically.
*33:48*
I really like the haunted house vibe.
*33:53*
If thankfully you can mash the B button and like fly through text.
*33:57*
Yes.
*34:00*
And that's really nice.
*34:01*
So it did work out that way.
*34:02*
But I think the environments
*34:05*
are cool if not, you know, traditional in that sense of like you have a desert, you have a like a lava level, which with the island, you have flowery field, ice level.
*34:08*
You've kind of a basic intro level, which was like the fortress with the It's it's cool and I think the environments were more memorable and engaging than the um
*34:19*
the characters like the partners themselves, I think the world was definitely more interesting than the the people you had in your back pocket, so to so speak.
*34:33*
Um
*34:42*
Which was a lot of fun.
*34:44*
I like those are places I would want to visit again.
*34:45*
And I'm actually super curious now that I have context for the start of this series.
*34:48*
to pick up on all the references that future games likely do make to this these entries.
*34:54*
Yeah.
*35:00*
Um just like the worlds and people and like references.
*35:01*
Like I do know in Thousand Your Door, uh, Lady Beau is in um
*35:03*
I forget the the really rich town at the end of the train.
*35:09*
Like she is there.
*35:11*
Uh so I'll have an appreciation for that.
*35:12*
And I'm sure even f future games have references back.
*35:14*
I know
*35:18*
Origami King Origami King I know takes place in Toad Town.
*35:18*
I don't know if it's the same Toad Town.
*35:22*
Um unfortunately the way we're playing them, we might not fully understand all the future references because it's like, oh
*35:24*
Playing Warigami King we might might not be like, oh that's a reference to sticker star or something because we're gonna play them so out of order.
*35:31*
So um
*35:37*
Alright, so it sounds like the world and the characters and stuff.
*35:39*
Let's come back to the pin.
*35:43*
Okay.
*35:44*
We're gonna take the pin out.
*35:45*
Gameplay.
*35:46*
Let's talk about gameplay and specifically the combat first.
*35:47*
Because it does revolve around the partners and everything.
*35:52*
What do you think about this first iteration of uh turn based Paper Mario RPG?
*35:57*
Um it's good for a first outing.
*36:02*
Uh hasn't aged the greatest.
*36:06*
Uh I mean that's the problem, is we're playing this 20 years after it released, so like
*36:09*
Duh, it's gonna age.
*36:13*
I honestly all things considered for this being a two-decade old game, it's still it's totally fine.
*36:15*
It's totally good for what it is.
*36:19*
But it does get old by the time you reach the end of those credits.
*36:22*
I was very glad to be done with this game, just for the from the basic idea of we would be doing something different in the next
*36:27*
one uh when it comes to combat.
*36:36*
Very different.
*36:38*
Yeah, but and I don't think it's it just there's not enough evolution.
*36:39*
So they introduce the combat to you very early and it's like, okay, this is cool.
*36:45*
The timing thing the timing stuff is novel, I I think, the both in regards to
*36:49*
Doing more damage to the enemies and uh uh preventing damage to yourself.
*36:54*
I I I think that stuff is all very engaging and keeps it um It adds like a splash of real time to the turn based comment.
*36:57*
Which is great.
*37:05*
And that's a great idea.
*37:05*
Um and really the future of the series in some regards is built upon that.
*37:07*
So that again, for what it was at the time, there are some really, really cool ideas here.
*37:11*
The problem is it kind of shows you everything up front and then does very little to iterate on them as the game goes on.
*37:17*
Obviously you can get new badges, which we can kind of talk about that system in a second.
*37:24*
Uh you can get new badges and things like that, which can give you new abilities.
*37:29*
But at the same time, like the things you have a hammer attack and you have a jump attack, and it's always kinda the same thing.
*37:33*
And the badges you get and the different variants of those moves you get are
*37:40*
always asking you to do the same thing.
*37:44*
They are just dealing the damage in different ways or dealing it with more damage.
*37:46*
Um and even when you get like the different boots or the different hammers, it doesn't alter things in any major sort of way either.
*37:51*
It's just like, oh, you have a better hammer, you just do more hammer damage now.
*37:58*
Um so it
*38:04*
Yeah, it kind of shows you everything up front and you're like, okay, this is cool.
*38:06*
This is interesting.
*38:09*
This is unique.
*38:10*
What are you gonna do on it?
*38:11*
Uh how are you gonna mix this up ten hours in?
*38:12*
And they really don't the way that they continue to kind of iterate on it sort of is the introduction of the new
*38:15*
uh characters.
*38:21*
Um but this is the other problem too.
*38:23*
You get to a point in this game where some of your characters are more powerful because you've come across the upgrade blocks.
*38:26*
Mm-hmm.
*38:33*
And you've started upgrading other characters and uh you get these new characters that they throw in your lap and you're like, oh that's cool, I'd like to try this person out.
*38:34*
Oh, but they're totally way weaker than this other dude I've already got right here.
*38:42*
I'm just gonna keep defaulting to this person.
*38:46*
And you just kind of fall into a lull where you keep using the people that you've already upgraded.
*38:48*
And even after you find more upgrade blocks throughout the game and you upgrade all the characters and by the end of the game they're kind of all on the same level, um, I still was like finding myself
*38:52*
Oh, I've defaulted to using Cooper and Gumbario a lot.
*39:01*
I'm just gonna keep using them because I don't have any reason to switch at this point.
*39:05*
There's my rant on combat, sort of.
*39:09*
I.
*39:11*
It is if the partners and like characters were shallow, I feel like the combat is so
*39:14*
Restrictive.
*39:22*
And this is undoubtedly due to the fact I have played Thousand Your Door a lot.
*39:23*
And like I know where this series can go, and I understand the concepts of combat and other games.
*39:30*
But this game to me just felt like I couldn't do the things I wanted to do in combat and outside of combat.
*39:35*
For example, items.
*39:44*
The only way you can use an item is if you're Mario and you're in combat.
*39:47*
You cannot use a mushroom to heal outside of combat and you cannot use a partner.
*39:52*
to heal like yourself in combat.
*39:56*
That's not true.
*39:59*
You can eat mushrooms and stuff because I did it.
*39:59*
I've did it.
*40:02*
You cannot.
*40:03*
I did could not do it.
*40:04*
Yeah you can.
*40:05*
There's a way.
*40:06*
Go
*40:06*
Uh you can go just you can bring up an item list the same way that you bring up it's one of the D-pad options.
*40:07*
Same way you like swap out uh partners.
*40:13*
You can bring up a mini item thing and you can eat a
*40:17*
Eat a thing there.
*40:21*
I'm about to turn on the Wii U.
*40:23*
I'm about to try this out.
*40:25*
You can I I might I might I guarantee you you can.
*40:26*
So that's just something you didn't do.
*40:31*
Because I would go I would go into the pause menu.
*40:34*
Oh yeah.
*40:37*
I would go into the item tab.
*40:37*
Well see they should have let you be able to do that too.
*40:39*
Because it would not let me use it.
*40:42*
You could not use an item as a partner.
*40:44*
All a partner can do is attack or swap out if you get the upgrade for it.
*40:46*
And then or just do nothing.
*40:52*
They have no health.
*40:54*
All they are is, again, just a way to facilitate a different type of attack.
*40:55*
Just like they open up navigation in the world, r is all I really felt they did.
*40:59*
They only really open up another round of attacks.
*41:05*
And then on your point, when you have Gumbario and Cooper upgraded and then you get a new person and they're weaker, you're just gonna stick with that.
*41:08*
So the whole time you're jumping or you're shell shooting
*41:19*
And that's all you you're just doing that and you're just building that attack pattern up.
*41:22*
I can't tell you how many times I jumped in this game because typically my Mario build is a big jump thing and then I'm jumping with Gumbario.
*41:26*
And it just felt
*41:35*
I I just I couldn't do everything I wanted to do.
*41:39*
And so really, Mario is the only power play that you have.
*41:42*
And specifically, I think you feel this a lot
*41:47*
In the final fight with Bowser.
*41:51*
Bowser.
*41:54*
Hold on, but before we talk about that fight, because that fight's a whole thing itself.
*41:55*
I think the one thing they do try to introduce to keep things a little bit spiced up.
*41:58*
Is the different stars.
*42:02*
They're like, oh, here's something new you can do in combat.
*42:04*
How many of those did you actually use?
*42:07*
I used
*42:09*
I used the first one to heal.
*42:11*
Yes.
*42:13*
Until I got the new one that was LG20.
*42:14*
Yes.
*42:17*
And then occasionally I used the one that like shot stars down.
*42:18*
That's it.
*42:23*
That's all I'll use it.
*42:23*
Some of the other ones were like, oh you can uh put people to sleep, but it
*42:25*
might not work on everybody.
*42:30*
And it's like, well, I I need some sort of guarantee that this is gonna work before I spend my turn using this.
*42:31*
So I never use that.
*42:38*
And because and then you did and you had nothing to fall back on, because if you did that
*42:39*
As Mario, the only person who can use this star power.
*42:43*
You got nothing.
*42:47*
Well then it's like then you maybe burn especially if you're in like a fight where you're tight.
*42:48*
Yeah, a tight squeeze, you're like, oh man, I can either sing them to sleep or I can heal myself here for
*42:52*
Five HP, what should I do?
*42:58*
Uh I'll try the sing.
*42:59*
Oh it didn't work.
*43:01*
Uh oh, I might die.
*43:02*
Oh no.
*43:04*
So like uh the sing is not the only one either.
*43:05*
There's a couple one one was like blow enemies away.
*43:08*
Um
*43:11*
Hmm.
*43:12*
And there was another one.
*43:12*
It just I forget.
*43:14*
Yeah, I it just like half the stars that they give you, it's like I don't really need to use these.
*43:16*
And even the even the dude who
*43:21*
Yeah, like you said, you get the one who heals you at first, and you're like, okay, cool.
*43:23*
And then you get the other one who heals you later.
*43:26*
It's like, well, I have no need for the other guy anymore.
*43:28*
I only use the other guy if I was poisoned.
*43:31*
Yes.
*43:34*
Because it was a guaranteed way to heal.
*43:34*
The other I don't know if you felt like this, but I felt like experience was
*43:37*
Duled out like completely imbalanced.
*43:44*
Like if you started a new chapter, you'd be getting a decent chunk of experience.
*43:47*
And you maybe level up once or twice in a chapter.
*43:51*
Yeah.
*43:54*
But after that
*43:55*
It's one little point or nothing.
*43:56*
Especially when you go back to Toad Town and you're in the sewers and stuff.
*43:59*
Like I I felt very restricted in leveling up until I got to Bowser's Castle.
*44:02*
And then it was like
*44:08*
have all the experience you want.
*44:09*
And I leveled up four or five times in Bowser's cast.
*44:11*
Well, yeah, I think they are trying to v walk a very careful tightrope there, because it was very clear to me that the game could get unbalanced if you got too much
*44:13*
uh XP there because you would get Max is turning on his Wii U.
*44:23*
He's gonna actually do it.
*44:28*
He's gonna actually test to see.
*44:29*
Uh if what I was saying was true.
*44:32*
Um you can definitely get out of whack though if you gain too many levels and you have way too much health or way too many badges to use way too many abilities or like I I can see
*44:34*
They were trying to keep the game a certain level of difficulty throughout.
*44:44*
Um for the most part, I think they did a decent job by kind of
*44:48*
limiting how many star points you could get.
*44:53*
But yeah, it was very much like you would hit a you would hit a wall like halfway through a lot of these areas where it's like, wait a minute, that dude I
*44:56*
Killed has given me like five star points before, now he's given me one?
*45:03*
Like it was just uh it was frustrating.
*45:06*
It it just didn't scale.
*45:09*
I didn't think it scaled appropriately.
*45:11*
And and then you hit to Bowser's Castle and it's just like, here you go, here you go, here you go.
*45:13*
I was only a few levels away from being completely maxed out, because you can only have 30 BP, which is bogus.
*45:17*
Um
*45:26*
fifty HP and fifty FP, and I think I finished the game with fifty thirty-five and thirty.
*45:27*
I didn't know you could max out HP.
*45:34*
I got fifty HP, but I mustn't try to upgrade again.
*45:36*
It's yeah, they they cap you off at certain points, which I thought was pretty lame.
*45:39*
Uh all right, so let's talk about this final fight specifically.
*45:45*
Actually, let's talk about boss fights as a whole.
*45:47*
The boss fights cool, like design-wise.
*45:51*
I think the bosses are very clever and they look cool.
*45:54*
Um specifically, I think the piranha plant one comes to mind.
*45:57*
Yeah.
*46:01*
I liked
*46:01*
Uh I even like tough and puff or whatever.
*46:03*
But that fight makes you think a lot.
*46:06*
That's probably the best fight in the game.
*46:07*
And that's where I was going.
*46:09*
It's
*46:10*
That I think there's only two fights that really have any level of sh like real strategy of like which order to attack or what attack you want to use.
*46:11*
And the rest are just hit this boss until they're dead.
*46:19*
Like I didn't find
*46:23*
them to be super engaging, even though I thought their designs were cool, until Huff and Puff.
*46:25*
And then um the boss at the ice level who's
*46:31*
Like who it actually is.
*46:35*
He's sort of like that, yeah.
*46:37*
I found him to be kind of a little wizard, ice wizard.
*46:38*
Because anytime he showed like, uh there's multiple persons of me, I was like, okay, uh dude with the stars, come here real quick
*46:40*
Call down all these stars.
*46:47*
Um third persona mentioned in the podcast.
*46:49*
Yeah, considering one of the games I played most within the past year, it was Persona 5.
*46:52*
They play another turn-based RPG where it was like
*46:56*
Very much more dumbed down with the boss fights.
*46:59*
And again, I'm not expecting totally not expecting Paper Mario to have the same level of intricacy as a Japanese RPG.
*47:01*
I guess they're both Japanese RPGs technically.
*47:08*
Um technically.
*47:11*
But I'm not expecting Paper Mario to have the same level of depth or whatever compared to Persona.
*47:12*
But yeah, it was very much like
*47:17*
I was not really needing to think on any of these boss fights like whatsoever.
*47:20*
Um Huff and Puff really felt like the first one where I was like, oh.
*47:25*
Okay, there there's like I gotta think about how I actually want to go about this and I had to start using a lot more items, used a lot more healing items, make sure I didn't die in that fight.
*47:28*
Like I kinda used everything I had on me in that Huffin' Puff fight
*47:37*
to make sure that I killed him.
*47:41*
Uh-huh.
*47:42*
But I don't really last fight specifically, very bad.
*47:44*
Very, very bad.
*47:48*
Not great.
*47:50*
Let's talk about that.
*47:51*
Hey Mario, do you wanna cast the same star spell fifty times over and it plays the same animation every time and it does the same stinking thing every time?
*47:54*
And Bowser's gonna cast it every three turns.
*48:04*
Oh, and by the way, your partner is also stunned for three turns, so you can only use the spells Mario and you don't have a follow-up attack.
*48:08*
So let's just burn a turn every time to stop Bowser from being invincible.
*48:17*
Well it was so easy
*48:23*
Like it wasn't anything that was the problem with that.
*48:25*
Is like there it's not like that it threw that at you and you were like, Man, now I have to do this.
*48:28*
I don't know what I'm gonna do next time.
*48:32*
It was
*48:34*
Ch uh on my next turn, or I oh man.
*48:35*
It was just a slot intentionally stopping me.
*48:37*
I guess I have to do this now.
*48:41*
And no okay, now he's on an invincible.
*48:43*
Now we can
*48:46*
Hit him again.
*48:47*
Uh yeah, 'cause I I didn't struggle at all with that fight compared to again like the Hoven Puff fight.
*48:48*
I felt like I had to use a little bit of everything.
*48:53*
Like I I I beat this uh like one day before you and I got
*48:56*
I think I met Texadia's like, yeah, you got the ending left.
*48:59*
There's not much there.
*49:02*
Uh I yeah, I stopped right outside of Peach's castle.
*49:03*
Yeah.
*49:07*
You're at the fight and there's not a whole lot to it.
*49:08*
Um
*49:11*
So yeah, and I I I don't know like it's fine for what it is.
*49:12*
The part with Tink or Twink, uh his name's Twink, I think.
*49:16*
It's Twinkle.
*49:20*
Because Twinkle Twinkle.
*49:20*
It's not Tinkle Tinkle.
*49:21*
We're not peeing here.
*49:24*
We're wishing upon a star.
*49:25*
Yeah.
*49:26*
The part with Twink there was pretty good at the end when he gets more powerful and kills the your
*49:26*
Doesn't kill.
*49:31*
I keep saying kill.
*49:32*
No one's dying in this game.
*49:33*
Uh the Kamet gets beat up by Twink is was kind of fun and cutesy.
*49:34*
But that was also like artificially slowing you down because
*49:40*
You couldn't all you could do with Peach was like wish, make a wish, and then you couldn't block or like double hit or anything.
*49:43*
You just it was a cutscene that you played out, which was
*49:50*
It kind of interesting in the sense that you're actually executing that narrative beat, but
*49:53*
You're just pushing the same button every time.
*50:01*
You're doing the same th there's no strategy or depth to it.
*50:03*
It is just push this button to do it.
*50:06*
It's almost like a quick time event, sort of, but a slow time event.
*50:09*
Sort of.
*50:12*
Yeah, I
*50:13*
Yeah, I don't know.
*50:15*
The final fight was.
*50:16*
It was a very disappointing final fight.
*50:17*
Especially because they built up the whole game.
*50:19*
Like especially I will say the opening fight is great though.
*50:20*
Like it it subverts your expectations so well.
*50:23*
I remember when I was a kid and I was like, Oh Bowser, I'm gonna fight him and then you lose to the boss and he throws you out the window and it's like, whoa, what?
*50:26*
Like, it's a very good opening
*50:33*
And for you to get back to that point and it just be like, I have the power of the stars now and like to the first because that fight is in two phases.
*50:35*
In the first phase it's like, okay, this is good.
*50:43*
But the second phase is just like
*50:46*
the first one except he's just larger, has more health, and you have to keep up the same exact strategy.
*50:48*
Like there's no you don't really twist it in any any way.
*50:54*
So
*50:58*
Yeah, um it is what it is.
*50:59*
Um It definitely goes out on a whimper.
*51:02*
It's not as exhilarating or strategic as it could have been.
*51:05*
They really could have
*51:10*
Bowser could have summoned enemies or done different unique star powers.
*51:12*
Like there are a lot of th things that could have happened, but instead it's just
*51:15*
remove his invincibility and jump or hit him with a hammer um and hope your partner's not dead or stunned because they don't have health.
*51:20*
Uh they're just stunned.
*51:28*
So they're completely useless.
*51:30*
So it robs you of it strips you down.
*51:31*
It it just makes you feel not as powerful as you should be.
*51:33*
And I'm I did not care for that final fight at all.
*51:36*
Can I talk about something I did really like in this game though?
*51:40*
Mm-hmm.
*51:43*
Uh I mentioned it before.
*51:45*
Um the music is excellent.
*51:47*
The music is so I want to explain like
*51:50*
Why this is weird to me.
*51:53*
So while I work all day, I typically listen to I listen to music in the background.
*51:54*
But a lot of times what I listen to is I'll just pull up random like if you look at my YouTube recommended, it's just a lot of like
*51:59*
Lo-fi beats to chill out to it's it's a lot of stuff like that, but there's also video game stuff mixed in too, like relaxing video game Nintendo mix.
*52:05*
I just listen to like ambient like
*52:14*
chill out video game music or lo-fi stuff in the background while I work because it's just it's not over aggressive enough where it's like distracting me.
*52:17*
It's it's just very good background work writing music for me.
*52:25*
Um I cannot tell you how many songs in this soundtrack I knew from those YouTube playlists that it wasn't until they popped up in the game I was like, oh I know this song.
*52:29*
I heard this song on that playlist I listened to
*52:39*
Um, and so I think I was like tangentially aware of that some of these songs were in this game, but it wasn't until they actually happened that I was like, oh.
*52:42*
This is that's where this comes from.
*52:52*
Um so that was cool for me.
*52:54*
And some of the some of the songs in this game are excellent.
*52:56*
The uh star
*52:59*
uh area, whatever it's called, when you start heading towards where all the star people are.
*53:01*
That whole area where the stars are falling out of the sky is great.
*53:07*
Um that music.
*53:10*
All the music in the ice area is fantastic.
*53:11*
Every track there except for maybe like the main village song.
*53:15*
Um
*53:20*
All of those are excellent.
*53:21*
Like excellent, excellent, like probably my favorite songs in the game.
*53:23*
Um there's a lot of good stuff.
*53:26*
There's some annoying stuff though.
*53:28*
The toy box music is a little much
*53:31*
Uh I was so ready to be done with that.
*53:34*
Yeah, when I got done with that, I was like, thank God, get me out of here.
*53:36*
Um So it definitely goes back and forth, but for the most part I think the soundtrack is really good.
*53:39*
Yeah, I I I mark what I think usually is like good music.
*53:46*
Um besides just it sounding good.
*53:54*
But specifically in like an RPG like this, if the battle music is good and also doesn't get old
*53:56*
Like that I think is a delicate balance.
*54:04*
Um and I think like the battle music in this game I enjoy a lot and it never rubbed me the wrong way.
*54:06*
And like the fanfare when you win, even if you were getting one start, did still make you feel good.
*54:12*
uh in that regard the ice music is fire which is kind of funny and yeah this whole the music in this game does stand out and I'm excited to see really where it goes
*54:17*
in the future, especially like in Oregon King, which we'll play next.
*54:29*
I think I remember reading it was all orchestral or something like that.
*54:33*
So or something like that.
*54:37*
I So the series could really go some places with music and I'm excited to see
*54:39*
where they take it.
*54:44*
I would also like to say, while you were talking, I grabbed my Wii U gamepad.
*54:45*
Did you try the thing?
*54:50*
You can totally use items if you just hit left on the C stick.
*54:52*
This is stupid.
*54:55*
Why can I not do it in the pause menu?
*54:57*
Why does nothing tell me this?
*54:59*
To be fair, something probably something surely told me that.
*55:00*
Well there's probably
*55:03*
An instruction manual that came in a box with a cartridge.
*55:05*
Probably.
*55:08*
I think you can pull a digital version of the few times.
*55:09*
I guess I was so mad.
*55:16*
I was used the woo a wompa fruit and I was like, oh so mad.
*55:18*
Um so thanks for that, you know, 20 24 hours later.
*55:23*
uh gameplay.
*55:28*
But this speaking of d what was your clock, do you remember?
*55:30*
It was something around uh I mean there was a fair amount of time I probably had it sitting idle in the background, maybe not playing it just
*55:34*
I don't know, get distracted and leave it on in the background.
*55:41*
Actual playtime probably right around 20, I would think.
*55:43*
Give or take.
*55:46*
Okay.
*55:47*
Um Yeah, I th I think I ended probably around 23 or 24.
*55:48*
Something like that.
*55:53*
There was one more point I wanted to touch on, specifically just because it's an RPG style game.
*55:54*
Did you care for any of the side?
*56:01*
Quests or world or exploration or anything like that.
*56:04*
Uh what ones were there?
*56:07*
Exactly.
*56:11*
The ones that I thought that they were
*56:11*
Side quests at first, like uh the one that sticks out to me is like the flower things where she's like, Oh, get all these seeds for me and then if you get 'em all, something special happen on me.
*56:13*
I'm like, okay, cool.
*56:23*
And I I like really remembered that
*56:24*
Um and then that becomes something they make you do to progress through the main game.
*56:26*
Same thing with the toad uh underground area.
*56:30*
I was I thought that that was just a total side thing and I was like
*56:34*
Yeah, I'm not gonna dabble too much in that because I just wanna play through the main in play through the main game, get through the story, and I I d I don't I'm I'm not gonna try to dabble with too much of the sides.
*56:36*
stuff.
*56:46*
No, it makes you go in that direction eventually and uh has to get in there.
*56:47*
So there's really I I mean there are some tangents you can go on in this game.
*56:51*
I know there's like a lot of letters you can find to take to people and things like that, but there's no really
*56:56*
I'm with you there.
*57:07*
It del I was trying to deliver letters.
*57:08*
I thought the flower seed thing like you, I thought that was a side quest.
*57:10*
Definitely not.
*57:14*
I'm just glad I found them all.
*57:15*
I mentioned that to you when we were I was texting you about it.
*57:18*
I was like, I'm just glad that I found them.
*57:21*
uh in sequential order and I didn't have to turn it into a like a wild goose chase of g well where the freaking seeds that I need to get now.
*57:23*
Because if I had not gotten those when I was ready to progress with the story in that moment, that would have sucked.
*57:32*
Yeah, I think I had a backtrack for like one.
*57:37*
Um it's not fun, especially at that point where you're like, ugh
*57:40*
I do have to go back or it it that would really be a solid roadblock.
*57:45*
Um I just pulled it up on the wiki, this Paper Mario wiki.
*57:51*
Other side activities.
*57:56*
uh star pieces.
*57:58*
Um that's you know, whatever, that's a collectible.
*57:59*
The quizzes.
*58:03*
Sometimes you'd see that worm dude.
*58:04*
Which give you star pieces, don't they?
*58:06*
Yes.
*58:08*
Um the Dojo and Toe Town.
*58:09*
I did that.
*58:12*
Yeah, I did that.
*58:13*
Uh Koopa Coots Favors
*58:15*
I guess you can do favors for this old Koopa in town, um, which gives you surprise.
*58:18*
Star pieces.
*58:24*
Um, taste tees, recipes.
*58:25*
So you could do these recipes after getting her cookbook in chapter four.
*58:28*
Uh-huh.
*58:33*
Um I didn't enjoy that as much as the one you get to do in Thousand Year Door.
*58:33*
Unfortunately.
*58:39*
Um, because I really like that a lot in that game.
*58:41*
Uh and I guess maybe part of that was like there's no cookbook to see, like keep track of what you're doing.
*58:44*
Like it just felt
*58:50*
I don't know what this will work or not.
*58:52*
And then the le letter delivery.
*58:54*
Um, and you just get some items for that.
*58:56*
Like there's not even some great fetch quest where you get to it doesn't end up away.
*58:58*
Yeah.
*59:05*
And I guess the pigs you could like farm.
*59:06*
But they never really like explain that in a great thing.
*59:10*
They're just like, oh hey, you get these pigs and there's like some special ones if you get 'em
*59:15*
The end like there's re it's not really uh explicitly stated why you should do that.
*59:20*
Um it yeah I think this lens again to kind of just
*59:26*
I keep using the word shallow, but maybe it's just more s uh establishing a foundation for where this series can go.
*59:33*
Yeah, and that's what I was gonna say to kind of maybe
*59:40*
wrap this up a little bit is like this very much in retrospect um because we know where the series goes from here.
*59:42*
And it's interesting though because like I said this so many people have
*59:51*
thought that they won a game in this exact style, like now.
*59:55*
And then you come back to this and it's like, man, this is pretty darn basic.
*01:00:00*
Uh there's not a whole lot on the bones here, uh, by twenty twenty-one standards.
*01:00:04*
Um
*01:00:09*
So, but yeah, it feels like it was setting up everything that came after, um, which is strange because uh
*01:00:10*
Thousand Year Door is very much a sequel to this, and then they totally are like, all right, forget this formula, never go back to this.
*01:00:18*
We're doing different things from here.
*01:00:24*
Um
*01:00:27*
So it makes you wonder like what they thought of this internally.
*01:00:28*
Like were they more Was Nintendo more setting out to make a Mario RPG or were they did they have the idea of the paper stuff first?
*01:00:32*
and then they're like, okay, well, what's a good format for this?
*01:00:42*
And it just happened to be the RPG, and that's kind of how those two got tied together.
*01:00:45*
Um like I'm I'm curious which came first because they do abandon the all the other games do have RPG elements to them, but they kinda chuck out the chuck it out pretty quickly.
*01:00:50*
Um
*01:01:02*
I mean all the other games are very much RPGs too, except for Super Paperware, I guess isn't.
*01:01:02*
Yeah, that one's real time.
*01:01:08*
Yeah.
*01:01:10*
Weird 2D, 3D combat.
*01:01:10*
It's clearly w I think people may uh i forget how little like you said, meat on the bones there is in this b there's heart to this game.
*01:01:14*
And that's clear, and I think that's what's most appealing about it.
*01:01:28*
Like you can tell there's charm and character here.
*01:01:31*
But as far as a game goes, there's it is like the it is the rough
*01:01:35*
outline of a house, like the the the framing of a house is going up.
*01:01:41*
And I think they fill that in with
*01:01:45*
Thousand year door, and we'll we'll see when we get back to it here in in two episodes, I suppose, and see if how much of this actual foundation has stayed throughout the series.
*01:01:48*
Because
*01:01:59*
I think what fans really want is the heart.
*01:02:01*
And I don't I really don't know when and where or even if the series lost that.
*01:02:05*
I think another part is also they had the Super Mario or like the Mario and Luigi RPGs.
*01:02:11*
Which mechanically are very similar.
*01:02:19*
They're very silly games set in weird parts of the Mushroom Kingdom, and they're turn-based slash real-time combat
*01:02:22*
Uh and those did their own thing on the the Game Boy advance all the way up through the 3DS and even like we mentioned at the top crossover with Paper Mario at one point.
*01:02:30*
And I'm curio I'm curious to see where we will stand at the end of all this and really think if this is what we want
*01:02:42*
Or if we're really just longing after a game that we liked when we were kids.
*01:02:53*
Um, or if it's really just the like the theme and the soul of what Paper Mario is and could be
*01:02:58*
funky characters and cool looking worlds with good music and interesting combat.
*01:03:05*
Not necessarily turn-based, partner-based combat, but just something unique.
*01:03:10*
Yeah.
*01:03:14*
Which I think this may have been unique at the time.
*01:03:15*
I can't
*01:03:17*
Compl it was unique.
*01:03:18*
It definitely to me saw it.
*01:03:19*
I don't know where it stands, but is it really
*01:03:22*
Like Paper Mario the game that stands out or is it Paper Mario the concept?
*01:03:26*
And that's kind of what I hope we we find out over the course of this season.
*01:03:30*
Yeah, I I think the last thing that's a really nice way to wrap things up.
*01:03:35*
The only other thing I think I'll say too is like we're talking about how this is kind of the base for everything that comes after it.
*01:03:39*
Um
*01:03:45*
I think that's really a Nintendo 64 thing when I think about it.
*01:03:46*
The only game I wouldn't ascribe that to would be Zelda.
*01:03:49*
Um but even like the Link to the Past kind of laid that barrier uh laid that groundwork for
*01:03:52*
um creen of time to then run with a little bit more.
*01:03:59*
But yeah, I feel like this is very much an N64 thing where a lot of these 3D games of the day were trying to find their footing.
*01:04:03*
And trying to implement these like, okay, the game as a whole doesn't nail this landing, but here's a cool idea that we have at Nintendo and we're gonna put this game out.
*01:04:10*
Um and then they were iterated on on the GameCube and further along the line uh
*01:04:19*
Um so yeah, I I I think at the time this was very I mean again, it's got a 93 out of 100 on Metacritic, so I don't know how many Metacritic outlets
*01:04:24*
We're around back in the day.
*01:04:34*
I don't even know how Metacritic works for old games back then.
*01:04:36*
15 critic reviews.
*01:04:39*
I'm wondering when those reviews happened.
*01:04:41*
out of curiosity, 'cause it's like games radar here about this.
*01:04:44*
Like games radar the top the top websites don't seem entirely old.
*01:04:48*
I see GameSpot which has been around.
*01:04:52*
Some of these links are IGN.
*01:04:54*
Some of these links are bum.
*01:04:56*
Uh that I'm finding here.
*01:04:58*
We could go way uh way back machine.
*01:05:00*
Uh the IGN one just takes me to the homepage.
*01:05:02*
Yeah, the uh
*01:05:04*
The uh games radar one takes me to uh front page for Argos and is trying to sell me a Samsung TV.
*01:05:06*
So that's interesting.
*01:05:12*
Yeah.
*01:05:14*
So anyway, I yeah, I I I agree with everything that you said before though.
*01:05:15*
Um
*01:05:20*
What is the real Paper Mario, I guess?
*01:05:20*
Is it this RPG series that everybody wants, or is it more about the uh the the tone and the the
*01:05:24*
The the wackiness, the vibe, the the the paper, the paper design, that sort of thing.
*01:05:32*
Is that really what Paper Mario is all about?
*01:05:38*
Or is it more about this thing that everybody has been chasing for the past?
*01:05:40*
however many years that we don't even know if we necessarily need any more in a certain way.
*01:05:44*
So Yeah, it's it's I'm really looking forward to exploring this series of games.
*01:05:50*
uh with you and with whoever we get to guest on our other episodes.
*01:05:58*
Yeah.
*01:06:02*
Um so
*01:06:03*
Thanks for playing this game with me, of course.
*01:06:06*
And coming back to it after after a couple many months.
*01:06:08*
A couple of months.
*01:06:12*
Yeah.
*01:06:13*
After some persona and in case we didn't make this clear, so we started this game like last summer
*01:06:13*
And then we did not finish it until like two weeks.
*01:06:19*
We stopped in September.
*01:06:22*
Yeah.
*01:06:23*
Yeah, like the beginning of September.
*01:06:23*
So we played this game in very strange chunks.
*01:06:25*
Um and we almost talked about not even doing Paper Mario for this first season, but we're like, no, let's go back to it
*01:06:27*
So, uh hopefully the conversation you couldn't tell that we played it in two distinct chunks.
*01:06:33*
Again, I mean we talked about this amongst ourselves beforehand, but like
*01:06:38*
I didn't feel like I forgot anything vital about the game in that kind of couple months span there or anything like that.
*01:06:41*
So um but yeah, next is uh Origami King.
*01:06:47*
Yeah, origami king for the Nintendo Switch, which we both bought almost a year ago.
*01:06:53*
Uh yeah.
*01:07:00*
Close-ish.
*01:07:00*
I had to cash in one of those Switch vouchers, which is a thing they should bring back.
*01:07:01*
Please bring back the switch vouchers.
*01:07:06*
I don't know why why why they just don't want your money.
*01:07:07*
Yeah, they don't want my uh because I poured like two hundred dollars into those things when they came out.
*01:07:11*
There yep.
*01:07:16*
Um very excited to dive into that game and then it'll be Thousand Year Door, which is the one I'm really
*01:07:18*
Stoke to go back to.
*01:07:24*
That'll be the first half, right?
*01:07:25*
There's six of these colours.
*01:07:27*
Our current plan as we record this is to drop the first half of the season and then come back and do uh sticker star super and color splash, which will be fun to play back to back to back after playing
*01:07:33*
Arguably the strongest three first and then the weaker three last.
*01:07:48*
So that'll be fun to go back to the thing.
*01:07:52*
Yeah, and to throw this out there, like release plans might change.
*01:07:54*
I don't know.
*01:07:57*
We're recording this kind of in a very strange order, obviously, because at this current time we have not played Origami King yet.
*01:07:57*
When you look up in your feed, there's going to be an Origami King F episode waiting there for you.
*01:08:04*
So uh there will be kind of week and month-long gaps between when we record these on our end.
*01:08:08*
Also, as Max kind of alluded to, we might have other people drop in on other future episodes.
*01:08:12*
So it might not just be Max and I going back and forth
*01:08:16*
about these games uh over the coming we're gonna drag some other people along with us as well.
*01:08:19*
Yeah, we're gonna try to get some people to guess on different ones.
*01:08:24*
As far as Origami King though goes though, that should just be you and I again.
*01:08:26*
I believe so.
*01:08:29*
Uh I believe so.
*01:08:30*
So you'll get to hear our illustrious voices solo, at least one more time.
*01:08:31*
Um, if you would like to find Logan online, he's on Twitter at Moreman Twelve, and he is currently writing over at
*01:08:36*
Comicbook.
*01:08:43*
com?
*01:08:44*
Is that correct?
*01:08:45*
I haven't actually said that on a podcast.
*01:08:45*
Yeah.
*01:08:48*
I work for the man now.
*01:08:48*
No.
*01:08:50*
Yeah, comicbook.
*01:08:51*
com.
*01:08:52*
I got a got a new that's probably a different thing compared to what you heard in season zero, because I was still over at Dual Shockers.
*01:08:53*
So if you listen to those last of us episodes, things will be different.
*01:08:59*
uh a lot has changed.
*01:09:03*
Yes.
*01:09:05*
So comicbook.
*01:09:05*
com, Mormia12 on Twitter.
*01:09:06*
You can find myself over on Twitter at Max Roberts143 and then over at maxfrequency.
*01:09:08*
net
*01:09:15*
But until next time, thank you all for listening and we'll catch you later.
*01:09:15*