# Chapter Select, [[S1E4 - Paper Mario - Color Splash]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series of games exploring their evolution, design, and legacy. *00:00* Uh for season one, we are covering all of the Paper Mario series. *00:10* We are over, yeah, we are over halfway through Paper Mario. *00:15* My name is Max Roberts, and I am joined by Logan Moore. *00:20* Who just turned on his lights? *00:24* Hi, I did. *00:26* It's getting like kinda dark out here. *00:27* Not really. *00:29* I mean it's only five, five thirty in the afternoon when we're doing this. *00:30* But it's looking like it might storm. *00:33* So hopefully my power doesn't go out or something weird. *00:36* If it does storm here. *00:39* I hope so. *00:43* And for this episode we are also joined by Tomas Franzizi. *00:44* Hey Tomas. *00:49* Hello. *00:50* Hi. *00:51* How are you? *00:51* Good, I'm in the black void with uh Huey. *00:52* You're in the black void with Huey? *00:56* Spoilers. *00:57* Aren't we all just a smidge a little bit in that dark void? *00:59* Um Kiwi, uh if you m if you didn't read the episode title, uh this episode is all about Paper Mario Color Splash. *01:02* The last uh previous episode was all about Thousand Your Door. *01:11* It actually just went up. *01:14* Today, the day we're recording this, very happy with that episode. *01:16* We're yeah, we sta we stashed those first three episodes for a couple months there. *01:20* Cause we've been sitting on those since when did when when did we record Thousand Year? *01:24* None of this matters. *01:29* None of this matters to anyone. *01:29* It says in the show notes. *01:30* Anyway, we've we've been banking them and we're excited, but now *01:31* Uh now we've caught up to ourselves. *01:34* We've got college splash. *01:36* Now you're talking about the good games. *01:38* Exactly. *01:40* We were saving the best for last. *01:40* And we've got Superlined Up and then Sticker Star. *01:43* So today we're all here for Paper Mario Color Splash, which was a Wii U exclusive, it still is. *01:46* It's one of the last great Wii U games trapped on the system. *01:53* Uh you can still buy it digitally from Nintendo full price. *01:57* Please know. *02:01* It is a Wii U game trapped on the Wii U, but I don't know if you can say it's one of the last. *02:02* It's kind of perlitive adjectives there. *02:07* It it came out for the Wii U uh on October 7th, 2016 here in the States and in Europe. *02:10* and October 13th, 2016, in Japan. *02:17* It was developed by Intelligent Systems and Nintendo. *02:20* And here's the part where I cross my fingers and do the best I can. *02:23* It had two game directors. *02:27* Nahiko Oyama and Taro Kudo and producers Satura Iwata and Tatsumi Kimishima. *02:30* And then its music was composed by Fumihiro Asobe? *02:41* Asobi? *02:46* Uh apologies. *02:47* die twenty fifteen, this was about a year and a half seven. *02:50* This was a post posthumous uh producer credit for him? *02:54* Yeah that might have been more *02:57* One of the last games that he would have pr potentially had his name attached to that was still in development when he was alive. *03:03* I think Breath of the Wild was one of them, because obviously the Switch was *03:09* Oh yeah, this one out a few months later. *03:13* Yeah. *03:14* Yeah, this was by no means the last one. *03:15* But it definitely was one of the final ones. *03:17* It has a metacritic score of 76. *03:20* I would like to talk to those critics. *03:24* See how we landed on the C mid C score of 76 for this game, but that's just I I'll tell you how you land on that. *03:27* That's just par for the course when it comes to game reviewers, I think. *03:35* Like anything that is like *03:38* Anything that's j generic or not super great, it's just ah it's a seven. *03:40* Like W which tells you that scoring games *03:44* Is maybe a little messed up here. *03:48* Well, I think it's just a s I mean, we could get this as a whole separate discussion. *03:50* But I mean I've worked with I'm I've worked with Tomas for a long time and *03:55* I I can tell you that like back when we were both at Dual Shockers, like I would really stress to people to like people just don't want to go below seven. *03:59* I don't know why. *04:06* It's like a mental block for people. *04:07* We've been trained *04:10* to like think anything below a seven is bad when really five if you're on a traditional ten point scale, five would be *04:11* the middle average, you can't even theoretically argue a four is good, depending on, you know, how you determine your scales, but *04:19* No, everything is seven or higher. *04:27* Yeah. *04:30* I try to use the the full scale whenever I review anything. *04:31* I look to dual shockers, gave this game an 8. *04:34* 5. *04:37* So we scared it. *04:37* Who reviewed what did Ryan review it? *04:39* No. *04:41* Lou Rucintoldi. *04:42* That, man, wow. *04:43* We're old. *04:45* Yeah, should have been doing this for a while. *04:46* If you uh so actually all three of us worked at dual shockers at one time or another and we all went to uh Michael Ruiz's wedding. *04:49* We were all there together. *04:56* We did. *04:57* I think *04:57* I think I'm still your in your banner picture, Tomas, on Twitter. *04:58* I or you are. *05:02* I am in mine as well, but Am I in both of yours? *05:03* Is your profile picture still with uh *05:08* Mario Man as well. *05:10* What's his name? *05:11* Oh no, it's with me and John Romero. *05:11* That's right. *05:14* That's a good picture. *05:15* Anyway, uh so the three of us have all worked together at some point, uh, but *05:16* I'm not sure if we've all played this game before. *05:21* I know I definitely haven't. *05:24* And I I'm pretty sure Logan hasn't. *05:26* Tomas, have you played this game before? *05:27* Only like briefly. *05:30* I never I th uh I think there was like a bit of a *05:31* demo or something somewhere I had tried it before it came out and then a little bit at like a friend's house after it came out but I've I've never played it like all the way through until now. *05:35* Yeah, I same a buddy bought it at launch and I kind of saw him he actually had finished the game, so I kind of saw the whole world map and was kind of just *05:46* moving around a little bit, but I never really sunk my teeth into it. *05:56* I don't even think I played a quote unquote level. *06:00* Logan, did you touch it at all? *06:03* No, uh so when sticker star came out, I was really excited for that, and then I heard it was bad. *06:05* I was like, uh-oh *06:11* I guess I don't wanna play this and then this was obviously the one after that where I was like, Okay, maybe we'll they'll have turned it around, you know, gotten back on track and *06:13* I heard people just be like, nope, it's they're they're on a bad trajectory here, you everybody, between sticker started this. *06:20* I was like, oh, okay, I guess I'll stick clear this one as well. *06:26* Um so no, I I'd never played this until *06:29* We decided to play it here. *06:33* I've played Sticker Star before, so yeah, it was it was interesting kinda from what I know from playing sticker star to kinda come into this. *06:35* And see like where they kinda learned but like more how they didn't, which I found very interesting. *06:42* What did you guys *06:47* Did you buy it digitally or do you go find a used copy somewhere? *06:49* No, I bought that. *06:53* I mean, I know I told you about this. *06:54* Off air, I bought it. *06:55* I I found a copy on eBay and I made like a lowball offer on it and a man accepted. *06:56* I was like, all right, cool *07:01* Yeah, I had some trouble finding it physically, so I bought it digitally. *07:04* Oh no, don't know. *07:07* You just paid *07:11* How much was that? *07:11* Probably fifty bucks. *07:12* Yeah, it was like fifty or sixty. *07:13* I have the site up right now. *07:15* It is a six it is fifty-nine ninety-nine on Nintendo's website right now. *07:16* Yeah, so that's probably what I got it for. *07:20* We'll allow you to read we'll we'll allow you to charge that to the chapter select bank account if you want to. *07:23* We don't we don't have one. *07:29* Yeah. *07:30* Maybe in the future. *07:31* Yeah, mail the check to Max. *07:32* Sure. *07:35* I uh I was fortunate enough to find it at a GameStop nearby. *07:35* Uh and don't I mean I I paid forty dollars for it, so you know, I didn't like get it on the steel. *07:40* I think Logan I paid like around *07:45* I think it was like around 30 after shipping. *07:48* So I mean, either way, we all paid like somewhat decent money for a Wii U game in the year 2021. *07:51* I mean it's a good time. *07:59* It's a good time to play Wii U stuff. *08:01* Yeah. *08:03* I mean I've always been a fan of the Wii U too. *08:03* I think it's kinda this was kind of when it was whimpering out ahead of the Switch, but I think there were some solid games even though most of them have *08:06* Events since come to Switch. *08:13* Yeah, I think that's a testament though to its library that a lot of the rock solid games have come over from early on, like Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze and and Breath of the Wild, a Wii U game originally. *08:15* uh all the way up to this year with 3D W Super Mario 3D World plus Bowser's Fury, but it is an interesting *08:27* just the way to use the gamepad and stuff and let's let's start there. *08:35* Let's start with the gameplay. *08:39* We don't tr typically start with that. *08:40* I mean this game, I think like most Nintendo first party games on the Wii U did have an emphasis on the gamepad. *08:43* Um *08:53* I I I quickly turned on button-only controls and so that I wouldn't have to be a little bit more. *09:02* So that isn't a touch-in in the game? *09:06* The only times I remember like being actively forced to touch the screen would have been like in the outline sections where you have to like cut out certain parts of the game world. *09:08* Um for like combat and stuff like that. *09:16* I did like three combat encounters with the touch controls. *09:19* I was like, no, I'm not doing this for 20 hours. *09:22* Um, how do I change this? *09:25* And you can definitely turn on touch controls for that. *09:28* I I did play on the gamepad the whole time. *09:31* I was actually I only played straight from the the gamepad the whole time and *09:33* I think the exp the fact that I only played off the game pad kind of made it a still had a lot of problems, but it made it a better *09:38* experience I think than if I was like had to look at the TV and then down at the gamepad. *09:45* Because the best Wii U games to use the game pad kind of *09:50* didn't force you to do that. *09:54* Like I think the problem a l a lot of like late Wii U games that really forced the gimmick had is that it you were constantly like looking *09:55* like up at the main screen and then down at the gamepad and there's just this dissonance and it adds more steps to a process that like beforehand in most of these series was just like a button press. *10:03* So it was a bit better when it was just all on one screen. *10:15* Yeah, I I played solely on gamepad as well. *10:19* Um I know I mentioned this *10:21* Uh before we started the podcast, but that's how I played as well. *10:23* And that's why I also wanted to turn on uh like button and control uh like stick controls or whatever you want to call it. *10:26* Traditional control scheme because *10:34* Uh yeah, I it I don't know. *10:37* I I I don't mind touching it touching the screen all the time, but it just felt like extra steps that weren't really needed, especially when it comes to like *10:40* Dragging the cards to their spots or whatever when I could just press A and shoot them up into their row or whatever when I was selecting my attacks. *10:47* Yeah, I used touch controls I had to play it how it was meant to be played. *10:55* Yeah. *10:59* Seriously, like within the first five encounters of the game, I was like, I'm not doing this. *11:06* Like I've there has to be a way to alter this because I don't want to drag cards around the whole the whole time. *11:11* Yeah, I I I just stuck with it. *11:17* Uh I didn't really look to change it at all. *11:19* I was just like, oh, this is how it is. *11:22* And yeah, I think like I mentioned before *11:24* This battle system is like kinda similar to the one in Sticker Star and even has roots in like the RPG games in the series. *11:27* But the biggest problem is that it adds like five additional steps because you have to like swiper like a um through the row of cards *11:35* choose a card, drag that, click on it to paint it, and then flick it up on screen. *11:43* Yes. *11:47* It really should have been like maybe two or three button presses in a menu at most. *11:48* Yeah. *11:52* So I I played this as I suppose Reggie intended, T V and Gamepad, uh the whole time. *11:53* And I used touch controls. *12:01* I did, as soon as Huey said, hey, you can change the controls, I immediately went and switched them to the button controls. *12:03* And I found *12:10* I thought the button controls were slower. *12:12* And I was like, well, I don't want to spend more time doing this. *12:14* Really? *12:16* I found it really cumbersome to scroll through the *12:17* Especially when you get into the light part of the game and you have legitimately 90 to 100 cards on hand, scrolling through them with your finger felt really awkward and you would sometimes like drag a card somewhere where you didn't mean to or whatever. *12:20* Uh I just I found the buttons to be slower than I would have liked, so I kept it that way. *12:32* And then and then you're connected in the way that you're swiping the card up, like Tomas said. *12:37* I mean so this combat system *12:41* Uh for those that may not have played the game, it's you uh get a deck of cards and you fill them up with color paint and that uh changes essentially the percentage *12:43* of effectiveness or power of the card. *12:53* And then once you you have your set of cards, almost like a deck building game where you get to build out your turn. *12:56* Um you fling them to the television and then you execute the attacks as Mario, uh, from jumping to using hammers to using uh things, you know, real-world objects transformed into *13:02* Playing cards. *13:15* Yeah, I mean I as a card game though, I think it's it's not very good because the selection's random most of the time. *13:16* Yeah. *13:24* There's only about like five or six, I think, like *13:25* different things that you can do with cards. *13:28* So yeah, I think it it's not a great card game. *13:30* Very rudimentary. *13:33* Really it just uses cards. *13:35* as a m like a a means to deliver attacks to the screen. *13:38* Like these easily could have been just a menu of hammer. *13:41* uh you know, hammer, jump. *13:46* Like it could have just been a menu and you choose the van. *13:47* Yeah, I could have organized them a little. *13:50* It reminds me of like the current like PS5 trophy setup where they're all horizontal now and you can't *13:51* see enough of them at a single time or or clearly like I mean that's more for trophies I guess where it's not as clear what you need to do. *13:58* I mean this it's obvious what the cards do and stuff like that, but just the way they were organized was *14:06* cumbersome and obnoxious I think. *14:11* Like it could have just put in like different categories like things thing cards here, uh boot uh boot attacks or jump attacks here, hammer hair attacks here, and you could just click one of the submenus and I think it would it would be really easy to just bring them all up. *14:13* Uh yeah, I don't think there was enough space on the Wii U gamepad for that, unfortunately. *14:25* Like actually I think that would have added more submenus. *14:30* I mean if you could have just clicked one of the sub-menus and like then it brings them all up, I just some sort of *14:34* Greater sense of organization. *14:39* And I know you can hit the sort button on the gamepad and it sorts them in somewhat of an order. *14:41* If there are pre-colored cards, like pre-filled in, or they're blank, and then it's um and then it organizes them by like health *14:49* Uh health items for like items, hammers, boots. *14:58* All the things are shoved at the very end far left. *15:02* Yeah. *15:05* And partners. *15:05* Partners will *15:06* I found it weird that you had thing cards in your thing the whole game, even though they were very situational. *15:09* Yeah, very situational and they take up, you know, anywhere from five to ten. *15:15* of your 99 card slots. *15:20* It limits you in that way. *15:22* S the uh Tomash, you said this earlier where *15:24* you have all these steps to just do something so simple. *15:30* And I think it's just it's so *15:34* It became so frustrating where you'd see this row of enemies. *15:38* The game is it doesn't communicate anything essential to you in this way that like *15:43* The way you see enemies' health is visually their color, like how much color they have left. *15:50* It's not a number, it's not a *15:56* It's not a bar, it is just a a an obtuse amount of color, where they could have just the tiniest bit of uh the black outline left and and still be alive. *15:58* And so you don't know necessarily how much *16:08* paint you have to fill a card up to to have the right ratio of attack. *16:12* You don't know how much this one jump card will take out of an enemy's health because it doesn't give you a number or anything. *16:16* So you're guessing like do I need two cards here or four four cards? *16:23* Do I need the big boot or a small boot? *16:26* And then if you over guess, say you only needed two jumps instead of three, well you just lose whatever cards you threw out there with it. *16:29* Oh my gosh. *16:37* That's the most annoying part of maybe this entire game. *16:38* Is that you could just flat out lose cards that you throw into your rotation to use it in attack phase, and if you kill all the enemies before that, you lose the cards that you *16:41* Put for like why is that a thing? *16:52* If you're not actually using them, why are they out of why wouldn't they be put back into your inventory? *16:54* It it's Yeah, and it can be hard sometimes even to like *17:01* gauge if you need one because there there were times where like I would choose like a oh jump three times thing and then I'd be like oh should I put *17:04* But if there were like five enemies, I'd just be like, oh, should I put like a a hammer just in case? *17:13* Or like will this take care of everything? *17:18* Uh *17:20* And then like it doesn't or it does, but and I don't have the right cards or I lose one. *17:21* So yeah, that that's just really frustrating because like I do think uh using that color as a health bar *17:26* is an interesting concept, but I don't think it's an interesting concept when you're a turn-based RPG with like uh limited moves. *17:33* Like I think this game in general would have been better if it had uh just focused on some other kind of combat system. *17:43* I understand why they wanted to do the cards. *17:51* But I feel like the the combat actively hurts the game. *17:53* I I really do like the idea of planning out *17:57* What attacks you're gonna do in the order and like seeing the row of enemies and then planning like I'm gonna jump on these two and then I'm gonna use a hammer on this one, which kind of also has an AoE effect. *18:03* Like I like that *18:13* strategy that line of thinking. *18:15* But the implementation here it doesn't give you enough information to make the best decisions. *18:18* It just *18:25* you're almost fighting blind to some degree every time. *18:26* I mean, there are plenty of times where I'm fighting a boss or just uh, you know, five or six enemies. *18:30* And I I plan it all out and uh oh this hammer, you know, I had these two hammers to wipe out these enemies and uh I whiffed. *18:36* I I missed w an excellent or something. *18:44* And *18:46* Now my third card is now being used early. *18:47* Like it just you can't make a full strategic decision here. *18:51* And so it it it punishes you for *18:55* them not showing you the information you need. *18:59* Like if I knew every time I used a jump card it did fifty damage and fifty damage was equivalent to this much paint. *19:01* on their body or whatever, then you could make better decisions. *19:09* Really this game needed health bars and numbers. *19:12* Well the other thing too I would like to I I think the boss fights specifically are like *19:14* Very even more frustrating in a lot of ways because some of these fights I I I know I think you did as well, Max, and I don't know about you, Tobos, but I was definitely using a walkthrough to help me through this game. *19:21* Yeah and whole time that that was able to tip me off to the fact that I needed certain thing cards ahead of time for some of the boss fights that were coming up. *19:32* And if I would have gone into those fights and didn't have the certain thing card in my inventory, then it's just like, oh I guess *19:41* I'm screwed? *19:47* Like you they will let you take on these bosses that you can't really actually defeat if you don't have certain items and the game never really conveys that to you. *19:49* as well. *19:59* And some of them you keep in there for a while. *20:00* Like if I remember right, you get a lemon fairly early on. *20:02* Oh my gosh. *20:05* And then you don't use the lemon until like *20:06* way later I think when you're making the steak. *20:08* When you have to cook a steak. *20:11* Yeah. *20:13* Which which that was a good set piece and a good use. *20:13* That was a good set piece until you fail it a couple times and it's like, hey we're gonna charge you a thousand coins to do this again. *20:15* I d I didn't fail it. *20:21* I failed it I failed it once and it was like you can try again. *20:23* I failed kitchen like cooking for all the toads. *20:25* I didn't know. *20:29* I failed that too. *20:29* I had to actually get out an actual timer and time the pizza *20:30* And it made you do the whole thing again. *20:34* Yes. *20:37* It the game is it can be very cumbersome and make you do a lot of things over and over again. *20:37* One fight, one of the bosses, so the bosses in this game are the Koopa Lings. *20:42* And uh what was it? *20:46* It's in the stadium. *20:47* They're like Coliseum. *20:48* I guess it's Iggy. *20:49* You literally you literally have to start the fight. *20:51* And they are unbeatable in that like they are unbeatable, but that's part of the plot where it kicks you out and then you have to go find *20:54* whatever thing card you needed to defeat them, I already forget like which thing you needed to defeat Iggy. *21:04* But it just It like it makes you just do a lot of guesswork. *21:10* And I really think *21:16* This game feels designed for children in a lot of ways, which is fine. *21:18* A lot of it is very playful, very storybook, and and quite easy. *21:22* But some of the stuff is so obtuse. *21:26* Then how do you not use a guide to solve this? *21:30* Yeah, I I definitely agree there. *21:33* Not even just the combat, like you'd think with how the worlds are structured, it would be a bit more *21:35* straightforward, but I remember early on in like World 1 I got stuck because I ended up like where you recruit the like red toad who's a superhero *21:41* I thought that was like the only uh star I had to get in that area. *21:50* So I didn't unlock the other level. *21:55* And so I reached like the the gate. *21:57* And then I was like, wait, where do I go? *21:59* And then I looked at a walkthrough and I was like, oh, I just missed like a *22:01* a whole level 'cause I didn't collect this one thing. *22:04* So yeah, there there's decisions like that where I think like if I was a little kid not using a guide, like I would get stuck at a couple moments, I think, in the game. *22:07* There was um *22:16* outside of combat, I mean just some more things that I know this w so this game in particular uh has a world map, which I believe Sticker Star does as well. *22:19* And it so you move level to level, which I actually think is a really *22:29* Cool idea. *22:33* Maybe we'll come back to that. *22:34* But back on the complaining train, uh the dark blue hotel, this *22:35* haunted vibe Luigi's Mansion type level, which I really loved, has an unexplained timer built into it *22:42* Where I I don't know if you ran into this, Tomas, but it the level has like a quote unquote three hour timer. *22:53* It's not a real world three hours, it's in game. *23:01* Where you have to solve all of the ghosts problems so they can have their tea party because that's what toads do, I guess. *23:04* And then yeah, if you don't, you have to do the whole level over again *23:12* That includes every combat encounter, every puzzle, everything. *23:17* And I ran out of time right as I was like solving uh solving the final puzzle. *23:21* Like I had pulled it up on my phone, like where do I go to get this final mystery toad? *23:27* And yeah, that that was a thing where like I I knew there was a time limit, so I like I kind of looked at it before and I was kind of like, okay, I need to go like here and like *23:32* how to kind of like attack it so I could just be like that room, that room, that room. *23:43* Like hit that dude with a hammer so his glasses fall down. *23:47* Like and then go back. *23:50* Yeah. *23:51* My my thing was is I I wasn't pausing. *23:52* While I was reading, so I was just letting the game run. *23:55* Okay, yeah, then yeah, that exactly. *23:58* So the clock was just running out as I kept playing. *24:00* It was frustrating. *24:04* Yeah, and there's a lot of moments like that where I think it would have even been better without the combat, because like *24:06* Mm-hmm. *24:14* There there are some funny scenarios I think in like the Blue Mansion, like when you uh how you have to collect like it and quotations, uh, and you fight those enemies and you kill the one guy and then they're all like, Oh my god, you killed him, run for your lives. *24:14* Yes. *24:27* But like I still I think like something like that is better suited for like an adventure platformer *24:29* But because it's all it's trying to be those and an RPG, I feel like it couldn't lean into the puzzler detective elements as much as it could've. *24:35* Yeah. *24:43* Because it had to be like, oh stop and fight like enemies every so often. *24:43* Whereas I feel like that would have been better if it was just kind of a pure more Luigi's Mansion style adventure. *24:47* I definitely I agree with the whole adventure thing because *24:53* I even wrote it down. *24:57* I s I said this game has a light adventure puzzle vibe to it. *24:58* And even the game opens. *25:02* Uh the opening cutscene of the game is *25:03* lightning's coming down, it's a storm, and some mysterious toad has been folded up and sucked. *25:06* Uh all his colours have been sucked away and it like it's this mystery that draws them in, and the whole narrative is like Oh no, who is stealing the paint? *25:12* And it has this lighter adventure, solve these puzzles, like the um the giant chain chomp, or I guess the small chain chomp that is a toad's. *25:20* kind of pet and you have to find all these other toads and it's just it has a lot of this find the the the key toad that you talked about, Tomas. *25:31* You find all of these toads um to solve different puzzles, but then it's also like *25:40* Well, it's been a few minutes since your last fight, so I guess you need to fight uh a bunch of people now, or fight this. *25:45* Like and without *25:51* Any walk through this area. *25:53* Yeah. *25:54* Yeah. *25:55* Like walk an area, do this. *25:55* Without XP, without any tangible award *25:57* For doing the combat. *26:01* Hey, you can get more paint, which then allows you to fill in more splotches on cards and sure *26:02* It's that is a slight level up-ish mechanic, not rewarding. *26:11* At least necessarily something compared to uh Origami King, where there was quite literally nothing that combat gave you other than coins. *26:16* Which you which you can just buy? *26:26* Yeah, you just buy more things. *26:28* Okay. *26:30* It was it was an odd system because I I don't even know though. *26:30* Like I I see the response all the time where it's just like, oh, they should add *26:34* progression back in. *26:37* But with how this game works, like I don't think any sort of like stat or progression system maybe health. *26:39* But like I don't really think that would have like *26:45* made combat like better per se. *26:47* Uh yeah, so it it's just kind of that awkward thing where I think like the the combat itself is just a very baffling design decision and the fact that they like locked *26:50* themselves into that resulted in pretty much like all the games biggest problems. *26:59* I I think the thing that I find most confusing is why um because I even though we're playing these in a kind of a back and forth hit order *27:04* This this was it was this and an origami king, and both of these games have incredibly bizarre combat systems, and I don't *27:13* I don't understand why they keep trying to experiment with the combat so much and like it's like they're dedicated to trying to find something that is like *27:23* wholly unique and different from anything else you've played, even if that comes at the cost of it not being very enjoyable. *27:31* Um because both *27:38* Both the combat in this and Origami King and I know Sticker Star has elements as well that came uh before, which we'll find out about more about in a couple weeks. *27:39* But yeah, it's it's just so strange to me that the it they have just been so intentionally trying to diverge away I from what I think the early games in this series are. *27:51* It's for purely for the sake of nothing more than just *28:00* d being different for different sake. *28:03* Like I I don't underst I don't see the value in this combat system or in even the combat system in orig origami king. *28:05* Um yeah, well what's disappointing too is they found something that personally I think worked with Super Paper Mario. *28:12* Like I don't think you've that's been covered yet, but yeah. *28:19* Like Super Paper Mario actually is a fairly decent puzzle platformer. *28:21* And I think if they had stuck with that, uh it would have worked. *28:25* But I think it was this weird mix of seeing some of the response to Super Paper Mario, where it was like, oh, we want more RPGs. *28:29* But then they probably also had some mandate up from Nintendo that's like it needs to be accessible. *28:36* It can't be a standard turn-based RPG. *28:41* It's gotta have a special gimmick that I feel like they with with all three like a *28:43* quote unquote modern Paper Mario games. *28:49* They like uh just they feel like they have to try something new because they know people want combat but they're not fulf like willing to fully go back to like what Thousand Year Door had *28:51* And so they've they've just it's kind of like almost a Sonic the Hedgehog issue where they're just they'd rather just do something different every time and not stick with anything that works. *29:03* Rather than like just stick to what's safe. *29:12* Yeah. *29:16* But like yeah. *29:16* That's a that's actually a good comparison there to Sonic the Hedgehog. *29:17* They try so many different things. *29:21* It *29:23* And you know, we've talked about it on previous episodes this season, but there was also this Alpha Dream and Mario and Luigi being a far more attraction. *29:23* I was gonna bring up the exact same thing. *29:31* And *29:33* Now that that's gone, maybe Paper Mario can come back to its roots and stuff, but this game the Paper Mario series is definitely *29:35* Definitely has signs of like we have to be different because we have an RPG series. *29:43* Well now they don't have an RPG series anymore. *29:48* Like then we maybe there's hope. *29:52* Yeah. *29:56* I I it's yeah. *29:57* We we we talked about that a lot in one of the previous episodes. *29:59* I want to say it was the origami king episode, actually. *30:02* Where we tried to hypothesize about why they moved away from the RPG route to the series, and it really does seem like maybe just because they tried to make Mario and Luigi that that game that game franchise for them. *30:05* Um yeah, and I know there's been some kind of weird developer quotes. *30:17* I forget if this was specifically for Color Splash or another game where it's just like I think like Miyamoto and some other *30:21* higher ups in Nintendo gave them like all these weird parameters. *30:28* Like it has to be an RPG, but it can't be a traditional one. *30:32* You can have characters, but like they have to be *30:35* Regular toads and goombas. *30:38* Yeah. *30:39* So it does a lot of stuff like that where they won't let them like create original characters and whatnot anymore. *30:40* Which even then I think like they I they didn't even need to create like quote unquote original characters. *30:46* I just wish they they gave the ones with personality better design. *30:52* Just a couple of things. *30:56* Designs because like you you see like a uh like the bandanas or like a chef's hat occasionally to make them differentiate, but like the professor toad like *30:57* should have had like a really cool original design or something, but he's just like a yellow he's just a yellow toad who's like, Oh hey, I by the way I'm a professor. *31:07* Yeah. *31:14* Case you didn't know. *31:14* Which is like *31:15* Where it's like a and obviously the game the the best part by far is like the writing and the characters and the story and they want you to like have fun with it and connect with it. *31:16* But outside of Huey, who's like a decent character, uh like it that *31:25* It uh even when all of that stuff is very good, it can kind of be hurt by the fact where it's just like, oh, aren't you connecting with like *31:30* toad with mailed sticker on his back when it's like that's not really a character or design a character design that's like memorable *31:39* I wanna I wanna put a pin in that 'cause I have like I have uh two more gameplay things I just I have to get out there and then I wanna come back to that. *31:47* Like the characters and the world and plot and stuff so we can sink our teeth into that. *31:55* Really, really quick. *31:59* I hated them the Magik Koopa fights. *32:01* The random, they'd show up. *32:04* It take all your cards. *32:06* It flip them over. *32:08* Unorganized. *32:10* So like you just would have to throw cards out until you get it. *32:11* Because there's literally no rhyme or reason to it. *32:13* You can't run away. *32:15* You just *32:17* Ugh, I don't know if you guys got mad at those two. *32:18* That annoyed me quite a bit, and so did the um I guess I really didn't run into this until like the final boss of the game, but on the final boss I was straight up like running out of *32:21* cards to use to attack him. *32:32* Like I had enough pieces of health to keep me alive, but he's kind of final boss in the game is kind of a damage sponge unless you happen to block his attacks properly. *32:34* You just have to keep hitting him *32:42* until you can absorb the the black paint or whatever. *32:44* I di I did run out of cards. *32:48* I had to use the battle roulette. *32:50* And then you have to resort to just a randomized system of that gives yeah, one single card. *32:51* It's Yeah. *32:56* It's really, really baffling. *32:57* I never ran into that because just like when I was running low I'd literally just go back to like Port Prisma and just like spam purchase cards. *32:59* That is what I did too, but I'm also I was also bad at the Bowser fight *33:08* Yeah. *33:13* Yeah, but it's just kinda. *33:15* The Bowser fight was the one of the only ones in the game though where you could like keep attacking and it might not have any effect depending on *33:17* Like I said, it all depended on whether or not you could block. *33:25* So you can keep attacking him all you want. *33:28* Yes. *33:31* Like it's very dependent on this timing window thing and nothing else. *33:32* Which is not visually indicated in any great way at all. *33:36* It's just like an issue I ran into too is that I actually the only time I ever ran out of cards was before you got the card roulette mechanic. *33:39* And then you just couldn't do anything. *33:49* So that it happened to me on like the first or second level. *33:51* And I was like, what the hell? *33:54* This sucks. *33:55* And then I got to like the what whatever that mission was where you like *33:56* uh like the person takes all your cards so you have to use it. *33:59* And I was just like, oh there's this mechanic. *34:02* Like if this is a thing, why wasn't it like immediately given to you in the first like battle or level? *34:05* Like why do why *34:10* Why did I have to like start fleeing from battles and being like super careful in the level I'm trying to have fun with. *34:12* Even speaking of fleeing, like going back to the uh problem of like the game not conveying health bars to you and stuff, the game doesn't even convey to you like *34:19* How do you know if you're gonna be able to flee or not? *34:26* Like at least with the original Paper Mario games, the first one in Thousand Year Door, like there was the *34:29* Bar system where you could spam A and if it landed in the right area then you could get away from the battle. *34:34* Here it's just like I guess I will hit the flea button and cross my fingers that it works out in my favor. *34:39* Uh I think origami king was the same way. *34:44* Same same way in origami king. *34:47* Yeah. *34:48* Where you're like, if you lose, it's that is your turn. *34:49* Guess you can try next time. *34:51* And so it yeah, it totally takes away from you even *34:53* Because you don't know because I don't know if it's just literally just like a random dice roll in inside the game itself. *34:56* I don't know if there's percentages based on like *35:03* If you're facing more enemies, is it gonna be harder for you to get away? *35:06* If you're facing enemies that are weaker than you, is it gonna be easier for you to get like there's no sense of like telling you like *35:09* f what constitutes a successful flea or not. *35:17* It's totally just randomized. *35:20* Um yeah, it's it's just very like I mean they could have fixed that even by just putting like flea 73% *35:22* chance of success or something. *35:30* Yes. *35:31* But yeah, and like it it kind of does it where it's like the camera zooms and it gets tighter. *35:32* Fortunately, I think I only ever failed running away like once or twice. *35:36* But um yeah, like I can see how that can be frustrating if you're low on cards and there's just literally like nothing you can do but like spend 10 coins a turn. *35:40* And yeah, I think even the coins were fairly useless *35:49* Like, I think there were a couple places that had entry fees um in like the the card shop, but like everything's relatively so cheap that I would just add like *35:52* thousands of coins and it's just kind of like okay like this room and I think that's the issue of how that's like kind of part of the progression where they're like oh you get coins for *36:03* uh like winning the battle and it's just like, well yeah, but if I have an overabundance of coins, like it's not gonna do anything. *36:15* The same sort of thing that that I ran into with Origami King where I had *36:21* hundreds or thousands of more coins on me at any given time than I actually needed at any point in the game. *36:26* So. *36:32* Yeah. *36:33* The the last thing I wanted to say, I wanted to see if you caught this Logan specifically. *36:34* But multiple times throughout the game, I think four, maybe five times throughout the game, you have to find *36:40* uh these rescue toad squadrons. *36:47* You have to find all of the members so you can pass some point. *36:49* They do something and they'll fix a train, they'll make a bridge and you can move forward. *36:52* The rescue toads are the magic seeds from Paper Mario 64, except way worse. *36:57* Yes. *37:04* Yeah, that was yet another instance where I was like, wow, I'm glad I'm kind of keeping an eye on a walkthrough as I play this game. *37:04* Because if I would have needed to clean up any of those *37:11* I don't even know where I would have begun in some instances. *37:14* Some of them are better than others, because I think like the the green toads, the one in the cave. *37:19* Like all of them are just in the cave as you're walking. *37:24* Yeah. *37:26* So it's really the the red ones are on the train, a bulk like you get thirty out of one briefcase, which is kind of silly. *37:27* Yeah, but even like the um *37:35* In the f first area earlier, how I was kind of mentioning that like that's I needed to get a walkthrough because I got stuck. *37:38* Like that was another part of it where it was like, oh, they're actually, I think some of the best hidden toads are in that first area. *37:44* So it's kind of this thing where it's like, oh, uh, like I'm not really looking for them like that heavily. *37:51* They're not really indicated that well. *37:58* So it's just kind of weird that that was a focus. *38:00* I think that's actually something they took away and put into origami king because the toads you find in origami king are completely optional. *38:03* Um and they're they're fluttering around as butterflies or they're grasshoppers or they're they're flowers or whatever. *38:11* So I do like that I like that they're optional in Origami King and because they uh they do have funny quips. *38:16* They're usually they have like a really funny line or interaction with Mario and then they go away. *38:23* And I I do enjoy that, um, but gosh, finding them can be brutal. *38:29* And I wanted to use those toads. *38:34* as a segue to the pin that I put in the wall. *38:37* I am now taking the pin out. *38:40* Uh there are only *38:41* The manual, I don't know if either one of you use the interactive Wii U game manual, but they they the manual only lists five characters. *38:45* Mario, Huey, Peach, Luigi, and Toads. *38:55* Now there's also Luigi's. *39:00* Luigi Luigi's only role in the game is to like show up behind some cutouts. *39:03* Like that's all he does. *39:07* And I guess he is this the one that drives you he drives you to the castle at the end. *39:09* And which is very cute. *39:14* He's your he's your Vend Diesel. *39:16* He's your wheel wheel man. *39:17* Mario up on. *39:21* It is um this game is like Mario and Huey I cannot carry a plot. *39:23* It is the whole story is on their shoulders. *39:30* The paint stars, all they do is show a flashback that goes, Look, who took all of our paint? *39:33* Which surprise, surprise, it was Bowser. *39:39* Like that was obvious from the get-go. *39:41* They act like Bowser is some big mystery, and it is quickly revealed like *39:43* Logan, like I don't wanna this this is this story reason this story is horrid. *39:50* It's abysmal. *39:55* Like I I don't wanna act like I don't I don't wanna act like Mario or Nintendo games have these like grand narratives that are like *39:56* the the most incredible pieces of storytelling and gaming. *40:03* But the plot in this game is straight trash. *40:05* Like the whole opening of the game makes no sense. *40:08* It is the worst opening to get you from *40:12* Like like you said, it starts off with this, oh, we got a toad in the mail from an island. *40:15* Like it it doesn't even go on to like explain why that was a th *40:20* thing or why that really even happened. *40:23* Like who sent the toad? *40:25* Yeah, and then it's like, oh well I guess we should go to this place? *40:26* Oh we found a paint can. *40:30* The paint can says we just need to chase these stars. *40:31* Like they're they just start linking things that make no sense *40:34* And then of course Peach gets kidnapped because of course and that becomes the narrative thrust, even though that wasn't the narrative thrust at the beginning. *40:36* The narrative thrust at the beginning was yeah, it like presents it as if it's gonna be this like *40:44* mystery that you'll unravel and it just quickly devolves into uh Bowser Peach kidnapped gotta save Peach and it's so terrible, dude. *40:49* Like it is I mean, I thought Origami King's plot of *40:58* Someone scribbled on me and now I'm gonna take over the world. *41:03* Oh, that was but you didn't know that until the very end. *41:06* At least also you don't know Bowser's quote unquote *41:09* motivation until the very end. *41:14* Which by the way, all the dude wanted to do was jump and play with everyone else in the paint. *41:16* Yeah. *41:21* Yeah, which I think that was *41:21* funny and I thought that was kind of funny too. *41:23* Yeah, but th the thing with the plot too is it's it's not a very like good or original plot by any means. *41:26* I think it did work for me because of the *41:33* the writing and the the care the few characters that there were, like kind of going back to Huey. *41:37* I actually think Huey was a pretty like good character. *41:42* He had some I think my favorite moments with him were like when he's like, I'll do anything to protect you, Mario *41:45* And then the chain chomp comes out and he runs away. *41:51* And then when he's like Tin Cansby like in the circus, like that that was super funny. *41:53* So I feel like he's endearing enough and some other characters start to get there, but it did. *41:58* I kinda felt like the the game was moving on so quickly that I can never really stick with any characters but Mario and Huey for long enough to develop them and Huey is a very good character, but like one game and a voiceless protagonist that makes *42:03* a funny pose occasionally like aren't enough to really like save the narrative, but I also don't think the the full narrative was the main focus. *42:18* I think *42:26* it it felt very kind of episodic to me and I think that's the the level-based structure kind of benefited it there because it kind of felt like oh every little level can be kind of its own little episode has its *42:27* own characters and then you move on to something else and even though it does it in a much like uh less great way than some other games *42:38* Like I I feel like I I enjoyed a lot of the the writing in the characters. *42:46* So it's one of those cases where even if the story they were telling wasn't great, I think the the writing in the game is by far probably that and the visuals are the best thing about the game. *42:50* I I totally agree with the way Huey is developed and represented throughout the game. *43:01* He's a he is one of the great kind of companions in Paper Mario, I think, from a narrative perspective. *43:07* He has this *43:12* innocence of not seeing the world, so he's discovering things with fresh painted eyes. *43:13* And he kinda has this interesting *43:19* backstory that they tease and never actually fully develop. *43:21* Like when he scooped up all of the black paint, like I thought there was gonna be some sort of reveal later on, but no, he just sucked up black paint and didn't want to talk about it. *43:25* I mean the game was over five minutes later, so No, no, I'm talking about early on when the first bomb painted. *43:35* That was foreshadowing, I guess. *43:43* for the ending there. *43:44* Yeah, a little bit. *43:46* Yeah. *43:47* Oh yeah, he told Mario to close his eyes as you *43:52* Yeah. *43:54* But looking back, I guess they were just kinda like, oh yeah, he's like the chosen one that's gonna save it. *43:55* Yeah, he kind of figured sucking up the whole castle, squeezing the whole castle. *44:02* I thought they were gonna bring Huey back too. *44:08* Like I was cause it's the same ending as Super Mario Sunshine, where like you sacrifice Flood *44:10* To win. *44:15* Uh and but like Flood comes back at the end of Super Mario Sunshine. *44:16* So I was like, oh I'm just expecting Huey to come back and then he just doesn't. *44:20* No, there's a paint cannon space now. *44:23* Super *44:26* Yeah, I'm in the black void with Huey. *44:27* Like I said at the start. *44:29* I do like the the world layout as far as like having it in these bite bite-sized level chunks. *44:31* I actually think that *44:37* They were longer, so they felt okay on a home console. *44:39* Like I could sit and knock out a couple of levels. *44:43* It didn't need to be so short like I assume sticker star is because it's on a portable system. *44:45* It it definitely felt like these link longer, richer levels, and the world definitely felt more connected in that way, and how some levels would clearly connect on the map and tie in and there's a theme and *44:51* Uh I did enjoy the world layout. *45:04* I thought that was actually um pretty fun to kind of explore and find new parts of the map and *45:06* So on I think yeah, I think that's one of the actual like better parts of the game in my own estimation is just I I think the structure does largely work. *45:13* And uh it's classic, a little throwback like Super Mario 3, Super Mario World style format. *45:22* Uh and I think that works here and it really does help like I think that's why I was able to like get in a good pace, uh, especially with like playing it for like long periods of time, is just 'cause it felt like I was constantly checking off at least something pretty periodically. *45:28* The thing it could have done a much better job of though, I think, is convey which s paint stars are like part of the main path. *45:42* Cause like Tomas said earlier, like you'll collect one, you're like, oh okay, I did it, I beat the level *45:51* and then you find out there's multiple paint stars on the le on uh in a single level and some of them are just *45:55* Like you'll collect them and it'll create a shortcut on the map to go so that you'd maybe don't have to take a long route to get somewhere, which is *46:03* Kind of odd. *46:11* Um I feel like they could have done a way better job of m letting you know like which is the like A-line star that you need to collect on a level rather than some of the other ones. *46:12* It's a little Super Mario 64 in that way, where it's like you go and you get a star and then you're kicked out of the level and then you gotta go back and find another star. *46:22* Yeah. *46:30* The problem is that but the the catch is is *46:30* one of the maybe three stars in a level is actually the one you really, really need. *46:33* And it doesn't tell you which one that is. *46:39* I think a good example of this is one of the circus levels. *46:42* I don't *46:45* Yeah, the forest one where you just find two stars out of nowhere. *46:46* That was another situ that was another situation where I actually saw that and I was like, let me consult my walkthrough because this *46:53* Does not seem right if I collect one of these and I don't want to just come back. *46:59* Yeah, I don't want to backtrack here. *47:04* So I like looked ahead and it was like, no, the one that actually needed to progress to the circus is further on in the level. *47:06* I was like, okay, then I'm not *47:11* touching either of these here. *47:13* Um it yeah, and there were there were a couple times where like I think the the paint stars were like almost right next to each other. *47:15* So it was kind of frustrating to like I think in the the cave level I mentioned earlier, like to *47:21* To like to finish it. *47:26* And then there's literally two right at the end. *47:29* It's like choose which one like the one on the top or the one on the bottom, and you gotta come home back. *47:31* If that's yeah, if that's the case, then like they should have let you enter halfway through the level or like do you want to spawn at the save point? *47:36* Like when you click on it might have been a better workaround to that. *47:43* But yeah, I think I that's I like the level based structure for the most part. *47:47* Um I personally am not that pissed off when like the stuff is an open world. *47:51* Like I know that was a criticism for *47:55* 3D world is that it was level based. *47:57* Like, I don't think that's like an inherently bad thing, especially with this more like episodic style of storytelling that it has. *47:59* But uh yeah, I feel like there were there were some issues where how it just like booted you out every time you had a paint star. *48:06* Well, there's one thing I wanna jump off that you said there too, like uh like maybe giving you the option to jump halfway into a level or something like that *48:11* Uh I this was a common problem I had with the game as a whole, and this was something this was one of the instances where I sent max a little rant, I believe, but *48:20* Buckle up. *48:29* Color splash just doesn't it doesn't respect your time in a lot of instances, whether it be the combat or collecting the stars. *48:30* Um or even like when you die and it boots you back to the main menu? *48:39* Like is this a game from 2002? *48:43* Uh like set like the chase sequences were really the big thing for me. *48:47* That made me realize that the game totally didn't respect any of the time that you put into it because there are these on-rail sections where you have to do something in a very specific manner, like the Chain Shop one I died on a couple times. *48:51* Uh and it totally boots you back to the main menu and you have to start over from your most recent save, which is I mean it wasn't *49:04* It's a space. *49:11* Yeah. *49:14* Yeah. *49:15* Well, the Chain Shop one specifically, there was at least like a save point nearby where that chase begins. *49:16* Um, so that wasn't the worst thing ever, but still like I died twice on that because I just did it incorrectly and it doesn't really *49:21* It's such a quick thing that you have to kind of put together and realize and do quickly, or else you're just gonna die and it's gonna boot you back to the menu. *49:29* And every time that happened, I it was like *49:36* I would have to go do everything I did the three or four minutes before that chase scene over again, load back the game, and it's not it's not like I think these things are starting to become a little bit more apparent to me too in a time where we finally have SSDs and consoles. *49:39* Uh *49:53* Like to get punted back to the main menu and then have to reload into the game and everything loads back up and then you have to do everything that you did it and the game before you died again and then you have to retry the sequence where you died and then *49:54* For me, I died at multiple times in some of those chases. *50:04* And I know those chases aren't I know there's not a ton of them in the game. *50:07* There's one in the opening where they start like ripping up the the ground or whatever or the um *50:10* the world that's on like one of the first levels. *50:17* Where it's uh the it's like flipping it over. *50:19* The shy guys, yeah they start ripping it up and rolling it. *50:22* Uh there's that, there's the chain chomp and then there's like the black paint at the end. *50:24* That's like all the ones I can really think of off the top of my head. *50:28* With the train too, I think there was one where Paint was chasing you. *50:31* Yeah. *50:34* That was the most frustrating one because there was a bit there where where like at the end if you don't go left and into the pipe or something, like you just like game over immediately. *50:35* Yep. *50:44* Where it's just like *50:44* Like that's the point too where I almost wish it focused on the puzzle platforming more, because then those sections would be better. *50:45* Cause stuff like that and the cutouts, like, none of the platforming you ever do in the game is that like *50:52* complicated or nuanced compared to like Super Paper Mario, which had some at least more interesting sections where you'd like change the perspective. *50:57* So I I I I kinda wish that they leaned more into the *51:05* interesting platforming scenarios than the comment uh than the combat and uh like kinda as you mentioned how it you had the load in and stuff like yeah I think that's just kind of emblematic of how obtuse *51:09* the game is because it this game just is like a s there's some good stuff in it but it's just a series of like that was probably the worst decision you could have made for like a simple play experience. *51:20* Yeah *51:29* It's it's just like death by a thousand little cuts in a lot of ways with this game. *51:30* Like I cause I don't think the game as a whole is really terrible. *51:34* And I I don't know if we really even talk big picture like what you guys necessarily *51:38* Think about the game as a whole. *51:43* As a whole, I really don't think the game is awful. *51:44* And in fact, I I think I even might like it more than Origami King in some ways. *51:47* But it is ja yeah, if they just fine-tune some of these like rough edges and just got rid of some of these things that are just *51:55* lingering obvious annoyances. *52:02* Like uh I I I don't understand like who playtested this game and how did they not see some of these things that were like *52:05* uh just frustrating, I guess. *52:12* Uh that could have been rectified so easily, I think. *52:15* Yeah, just some of the decisions you're just like *52:18* Like and their their decisions built into the core of the game too, where you're like like they had to look at that combat and it using like five button presses instead of like *52:21* one and be like, Oh yes, that makes it more fun to play. *52:31* But yeah, so tha that's why earlier I was kinda saying like it kinda it kinda felt like a mandate of above where they needed the like they were working on the Paper Mario game with like normal combat and then at some point *52:35* Someone was like like, oh well no Mr. *52:45* Miyamoto wants us to like incorporate the gamepad really uniquely because the console's like failing like crazy. *52:47* So like make it a little bit more than a little bit. *52:54* He wants this game to be more like Star Fox Zero *52:55* Please incorporate gamepads more heavily into the gameplay experience. *52:58* Yeah. *53:03* projects. *53:12* I I believe they're they're the ones who do this. *53:13* Um but yeah, like I I think the Paper Mario team can genuinely make a good RPG if they like fully focused on it, but I feel like basically the last *53:15* three Paper Mario games are all torn between being like a RPG with a weird mechanic and a like *53:25* p uh puzzle platformer and they should have chosen one or the other. *53:33* Cause like the first three Paper Mario games show it great as like both an RPG and as a puzzle platformer. *53:37* And then since then they've tried to like merge 'em. *53:42* And I just don't think it's ever worked and *53:44* Paper splashes of the weird middle child because you can like you can get mad at uh sticker star for like introducing the cards and all of that stuff that people hate and people *53:47* like despise that game. *53:57* And then you can blame Origami King for like its weird puzzle uh battle system. *53:58* Yeah. *54:04* But yeah, this is just kind of the weird middle one where it's just it's kinda like sticker star two and it improves like *54:04* the narrative and writing stuff a bit from sticker star. *54:10* So like it's at least kind of more fun to go through. *54:13* But then at the same time like the combat's still a real like *54:16* nothing burger and like results in the uh and like actively makes the experience worse. *54:19* Like yeah. *54:24* Yeah basically. *54:26* That's without combat the game would have been better. *54:27* It strikes me that this game *54:30* Basically as an identity crisis. *54:33* It kinda what you're saying, Tomas, really kind of rings true with me. *54:36* This game doesn't *54:39* know what it wants to be. *54:41* It's so intrinsically tied to that era of Nintendo with the Wii U specifically. *54:43* It is just *54:49* It is stuck there. *54:51* It has to almost in a way like Skyward Sword with the Wii *54:52* Like Skyward Sword fundamentally is a Wii game, and it's so from that era of Nintendo, of being an accessible, more casual 3D Zelda game that uses *55:00* That unique controller to its fullest potential with the one-to-one and motion plus and stuff. *55:13* And for a long time people thought Skyward Sword was stuck on the Wii, and we now know that that is not the case here. *55:19* It actually comes out *55:25* from our recording here in two weeks. *55:26* And that's rather interesting. *55:28* And I'm not saying that oh no color splash needs to be ported to the Switch, but what I'm saying is is its design is so tied to the platform that it was released on. *55:30* And I think to a crippling degree. *55:41* So you've got that. *55:43* And then is it an RPG? *55:44* Is it what is the age range here? *55:47* Like who what is the target audience of this game? *55:50* It's rated E for everybody. *55:52* It's rated E for everybody and uh everybody ton and under. *55:54* Uh is kind of the it's not they should bring back kids to adults. *55:57* They should bring back KA. *56:01* Come on, E S R B. *56:03* What is that? *56:04* That's that's been like *56:04* That was something in the ninety backyard baseball game. *56:06* I love that man. *56:09* KA was great. *56:10* So it's *56:13* It's not it does have some funny jokes. *56:14* Like the the writing is excellent, but the the the design of it and the the puzzles are *56:16* Typically simple, but it also has some just it also has this adventure game like obtuseness that you would kind of picture maybe for like a monkey island or *56:23* Um, there is no game, I believe is the one I've been playing recently, where it is, you know, put this banana peel and clock gear together, and look, now you have fire, and that solves the puzzle. *56:35* And some of that is here in Color Splash where you're, you know, you gotta go to the secret fort and find this *56:46* Toad who's secretly undercover and buy a super hot cheeseburger from him and then use that cheeseburger dragon for a dragon to lure him around. *56:55* And so *57:05* Th there's that like puzzle game obtuseness that I really don't know how a kid would *57:06* Like come up with that? *57:16* Maybe that's I but also it's also like how does an adult come up with this? *57:17* And so it's just it's being stretched and torn in all these different dimensions. *57:21* It's honestly, it's like *57:25* If you could compare it to paint, you know, we've got this RPG colored paint, we've got this adventure game paint, we've got this Wii U paint, we've swirled them all together, and now we have evil dark black paint, and it's it's good, but it *57:27* It's messy. *57:41* One of my other one of the other best examples, speaking of like the obtuseness real quick I wanted to jump in on, is just with like how the thing cards function in *57:42* The actual game world. *57:51* Like when I found the magnifying glass in the freezer, I was like, oh, I have an ice pick. *57:52* I can probably chisel this out of there with the ice pick. *57:57* Use the ice pick. *57:59* That's the wrong card. *58:01* Now the card is gone from your inventory. *58:02* It's like what? *58:05* Like now you have to go talk to someone. *58:06* Now I have to go talk to somebody, pay 300 coins to get a new one and put it in my inventory. *58:08* It's like, why is this *58:13* W why is this here? *58:14* Why am I losing access to cards because I'm trying something that especially something like that that would be *58:16* So logical, like a giant ice block. *58:23* Okay, well I have an ice pick. *58:25* Ernt incorrect. *58:27* It was a vegetable or something. *58:36* You get that big vegetable. *58:38* Oh yeah, the big like ratchet pipe or whatever. *58:39* Yeah. *58:42* And so the tiny, tiny, tiny little red toad. *58:42* Which is one of the rescue ones that you have to get. *58:46* Oh yeah. *58:47* He's like, go eat your vegetables and come back. *58:48* He's like, go eat your vegetables. *58:49* So I was like, ah, I have found a giant vegetable that this little toad can eat and he will grow. *58:50* No, you gotta find a magnifying glass in the ice block that you have to use a hairdryer to thaw. *58:55* Oh, and remember all the smoke that was coming up in like this alternate dimension? *59:00* Yeah, that's a grill, so you need to go get the grill so you can cook a state, and it just *59:04* It's it has this it's so wacky at times. *59:10* It gives you these tools. *59:14* It's similar to the I mean similar in a very I this is just off the top of my head because I just watched this video. *59:15* But and Max will know what I'm talking about here, but like Nake Jeky's video where he talks about how like Rockstar's game design with Red Dead 2 was like very *59:21* very specific and they wanted you to do XYZ in XYZ order and there was no really way to experiment and go around that like why would they put an ice block in this game and not give you, you know *59:29* f four or five different ways to melt the ice block down rather than only being like, No, you gotta go get the hairdryer, which is over here, even though there's *59:41* three or four other comparable items you could probably use in this situation to get that free. *59:49* Uh they just really want you to stay on the path that they have created for this game, which is annoying. *59:54* Yeah, and I feel like that uh that speaks very well to like I wish it almost like I think a point-and-click mar paper Mario adventure game would be *01:00:01* Pretty cool, but they can't because the game is doing so much, it's a platformer, it's an adventure game, it's an RPG that I feel like they couldn't *01:00:10* focus on one of those elements long enough so I feel like there's a lot of points in the game. *01:00:18* Like I think the the the most obvious moment I remember is that like when you're fighting Morton *01:00:22* uh Huey's like, oh we need to extinguish this fire if only there was like a fire extinguishing object and then you use the fire extinguisher. *01:00:28* Like I I feel like pretty much at every moment in the game they do *01:00:36* lay out what you need. *01:00:40* So it removes that like kind of LucasArts uh adventure game feeling where you can experiment because they want to direct you so much. *01:00:41* because it's gotta be a simple adventure game if they want it to be like a linear progression platformer in RPG, whereas like an adventure game might have given it more room. *01:00:49* Like it would have it would have been cool to just be able to like *01:00:58* go anywhere and collect all these items and kind of like explore the areas you wanted to, but it it keeps you on this like tight adventure. *01:01:00* Even speaking back to like the ice block for one second, like *01:01:08* Uh like with that they they eventually tell you like hey you need to go here and I hear we heard that there's this item in this one level where we can get free the ice block. *01:01:11* So the game like does convey that to you, but when I first saw that ice block I tried using the grill on it because I was like, okay *01:01:19* Maybe this could melt it and it didn't, and then I lost that out of my inventory, and then two seconds later I fight the steak and I need the grill and I can't do that. *01:01:25* And then I have to go and then I have to leave and then I have to go talk to the guy and I'm like *01:01:32* That like that led to me looking up like wait how the heck do you even get the replica items again? *01:01:36* Cause I like forgot cause that one toad is kinda out of the way. *01:01:41* They do show him to you early, but uh I kind of forgot he was there entirely. *01:01:44* Uh yeah, that I think that speaks to kind of the bad adventure game design too, because the fact that you had to add a vendor that only sells *01:01:49* like those special cards kind of proves that those special cards shouldn't have been cards in the first place. *01:01:58* Yeah, they should have been like key items or something that are added to your inventory. *01:02:04* You and they they shouldn't have gone away if you used it on the wrong thing. *01:02:07* Yeah. *01:02:11* Yeah, that that that shop only exists to solve an a to solve a problem that they created and didn't have to do like there was an easier thing they could have done *01:02:11* Like just don't remove the cards, don't make them cards. *01:02:21* That would have just like solved this issue, but instead they're like, oh okay, they're cards and they take up your inventory and you lose them. *01:02:24* And you can buy them from this guy. *01:02:32* So I think that's just kind of this game as a whole where it's like anything they could have done in one step, they chose to do in three. *01:02:33* And over time it's kinda like I think Logan said Death by a Thousand Cuts. *01:02:40* Or it's just like uh aca an occasional like *01:02:44* like thing that irks you isn't that bad, but then like when it's a bunch of these small things that's just frustrating you, and then on top of that you get into combat that takes forever to get through and doesn't give a satisfying reward. *01:02:47* that it just kinda snowballs over time, so you'd can't s you can't enjoy the the fun dialogue and stuff like that. *01:02:59* Before we wrap this up, um I just wanted to touch on the the visuals and the music in the game, because we t we typically do and stuff. *01:03:07* Um this is the first HD Paper Mario game. *01:03:18* It's on the Wii U, so that's it's kind of first thing. *01:03:22* It looks like the origami king. *01:03:25* No. *01:03:28* I think this is the worst one. *01:03:29* I'm sorry to cup E cut you off. *01:03:31* I think this is the worst one both visually and musically, personally *01:03:33* I don't know. *01:03:37* Well, I just I visually I feel like it I well I should say this I feel like origami king is a natural progression from this. *01:03:38* I feel like origami king very much more leans into the whole like hey everything is paper kind of motif. *01:03:43* Um *01:03:50* Like that game has a much more coherent design when it comes to that stuff. *01:03:50* This still feels like they're coming out of the storybooky era of the early games. *01:03:55* Um it feels like kind of a strange mishmash. *01:04:00* Personally. *01:04:04* Yeah, that's interesting. *01:04:05* I actually I think this is one of the better looking Wii U games. *01:04:06* I mean 'cause it's like that system was around, I think, like a *01:04:10* Xbox 360 power level. *01:04:14* Yeah, I think it looks pretty decent. *01:04:16* I mean I d it doesn't look terrible. *01:04:18* Yeah, I it it fits into that space. *01:04:20* I also noticed *01:04:22* Some of the bigger set pieces, kind of like the the road rolling up or or fireworks or anything like that, definitely made the Wii U struggle. *01:04:24* There were some frame drops and some some laggy kind of stutteriness. *01:04:32* Like it *01:04:36* Uh f for however powerful the Wii U was, which I mean it could run Breath of the Wild and it plays that has some truly beautiful games on it that have since been ported. *01:04:37* You know, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze ran rock solid on it. *01:04:46* Like the Wii U was a very capable machine, but th this definitely was pushing it. *01:04:49* And we know that Nintendo is typically like the masters of optimizing their own software for their own hardware. *01:04:53* So *01:04:58* Uh it was an im I think it was impressive for you know, this game came out five years ago. *01:04:59* Uh and I definitely see it as a launching off point for where what we got on the Switch. *01:05:05* I guess I should like stress with the caveat once again. *01:05:10* I did play it all on my gamepad. *01:05:14* So there is probably like on the TV and Yeah, I definitely I definitely *01:05:15* uh didn't do myself any favors when it comes to like getting the best visual experience. *01:05:23* So that's partially on me. *01:05:28* Wii U and Switch games kind of have that issue. *01:05:30* I think the worst example of it is that I think Kirby and the Rainbow Curse. *01:05:32* on the Wii U is like this gorgeous claymation game, but you look at the entire thing on the gamepad. *01:05:36* Yeah, where it's so it's like, I mean, and I I played it entirely on the gamepad *01:05:42* But I still kind of saw how like good this game would look on a TV. *01:05:46* But yeah, I think it's one of those issues, especially because I think the the Wii U even the the Switch is HD technically, but like the Wii U gamepad is like 540p. *01:05:49* Or something like that. *01:05:58* So you are looking at the the game even when it's pretty and like a and a thing that's only like kind of twice as good resolution-wise as the 3DS. *01:05:59* Musically so musically I don't think it's bad either. *01:06:09* I I guess I should say. *01:06:16* I'm just talking about like uh within the larger scope of *01:06:17* the seer the series, like where we're at so far in this season of the show. *01:06:21* Like we're four at we're four games in now. *01:06:26* I do think this is the weakest soundtrack of the three that we have played. *01:06:28* Uh I totally agree. *01:06:31* And that's not to even say that it's bad, but I like previously when we would talk about the soundtracks in this kind of section of *01:06:33* each episode, like I could recall off the top of my head some bits of music from the game. *01:06:40* I cannot do that right now to save my life, really. *01:06:45* Um and I and that doesn't mean that there's n the whole game has like bad music or anything like that. *01:06:48* Um, because I remember actively thinking a few times, like, okay, this song's kind of cheery and fun, uh, but there is no specific like earworm that I can recall. *01:06:52* from Color Splash. *01:07:02* The the only two I can think of are like the the Birdo song, just because that's such a funny set piece with Birdo singing. *01:07:03* Like you kind of remember that and then the *01:07:10* the unfurl jingo uh jingle when you have to like hammer stuff. *01:07:12* Like if it's like a fifteen second thing it's just like super hectic. *01:07:16* Like I remember that 'cause that's kind of intentionally an earworm to annoy you. *01:07:21* But yeah, I I kind of the same way, Logan where like I remember liking the music and being like, oh this music's good uh as I was playing it, but uh yeah there's it there's very few. *01:07:25* And then I guess like when they they chanted *01:07:35* And did like uh when they were on you're on the ship and it's kind of like got that that chanting in the background. *01:07:37* Like so so there are kind of those motifs *01:07:43* of the songs that I remember, but yeah, it's kinda it's unlike some even some other Paper Mario games, it's hard to just kinda like directly like sound it out and sing it. *01:07:45* I think the I think the one tune I can remember off the top of my head *01:07:55* For some re like I'm trying to think of this is anytime a character was introduced and it would do it would do like the and they would jump into the screen and it would say their name *01:07:59* Like that was one thing I did kind of like about the Koopalings and the suicide squad approach. *01:08:08* Yeah, anytime it introduced any of the characters, it did that with even Mario and Peach and uh I think the Toads maybe some of them early on. *01:08:13* Or no, it did that with Huey as well. *01:08:21* Like, yeah, I feel like that was that was popular in a lot of 2010s media to like whenever a new character came on you'd like freeze frame on them. *01:08:23* Yeah, it was definitely the it was definitely the Borderlands effect. *01:08:30* That's what definitely where they got that *01:08:34* The game the game's music overall, uh I d I I don't know if the two of you have been to Disney World since they've opened Toy Story Land, but it's very kinda like jazzy ragtimey, kinda just like *01:08:37* You'd hear this at an old-timey carnival kind of vibe. *01:08:51* Was the overall tone I got from the game. *01:08:55* Uh but I did I did write down two songs in particular that I just thought were really *01:08:58* Good. *01:09:04* Uh I thought the dark blue hotel had a really good kind of light and creepy Luigi's Mansion-esque *01:09:04* piano kind of spooky vibe. *01:09:12* I really enjoyed that. *01:09:14* And it that whole level in itself was really frankly a full-on kind of adventure style game and they really seemed to have fun with that. *01:09:15* And then it's a paper Mario game and you can't have a paper Mario game without a game show. *01:09:23* So I like the game show music in that too. *01:09:29* I thought that was fun. *01:09:31* The also I noticed that um maybe Logan you you'll actually know this or I'll look it up, but I feel like when you got a big paint star, that jingle was the same jingle. *01:09:34* For when you would get a star in Paper Mario 64. *01:09:46* I don't think that's accurate. *01:09:50* That's what it sounded like to me. *01:09:52* I don't think that's accurate. *01:09:53* I don't think that's true. *01:09:54* The only the only crossover music I really remember would be the Mario Kart, which was kind of odd there at the end. *01:09:56* That was that kind of put a smile on my face, but for like different reasons. *01:10:02* That and I guess the *01:10:06* the old school Super Mario Bros. *01:10:08* theme when you enter that world. *01:10:10* Um I don't think no. *01:10:12* I I don't think the paint stars when you got those is the same as the *01:10:15* Uh unless it's a unless it's like a remixed re if you mean it if it's like a one-to-one thing, no, absolutely not. *01:10:19* Maybe it's a same *01:10:26* I think it's the same like notes, but Perhaps? *01:10:28* I I'm not really sure. *01:10:32* We should uh play them back to back in the back. *01:10:34* I'm replaying them both I'm replaying them both in my head, like right now, because I can hear both of them. *01:10:36* Uh I cannot. *01:10:42* I don't have this talent. *01:10:43* So I don't think they're the same. *01:10:45* I don't know, I'll look it up later. *01:11:15* Anyway, I just, you know, it *01:11:18* The music's not offensive. *01:11:21* Like if when you look at Origami King, Origami King's got heavy metal and jazz and bop and just it's all around. *01:11:22* Origami King, yeah, I really came to appreciate that soundtrack, especially after slaps. *01:11:28* Uh especially after that video we found after we recorded the Origami King episode. *01:11:33* There's a really great um I can't remember who does it. *01:11:37* Yeah, it's in the show notes of the origami cane episode. *01:11:41* Okay, well there you go. *01:11:44* Yeah, that's a really good like 90-minute orchestral compilation of a bunch of YouTube musicians who came together and did. *01:11:45* like almost the entirety of the origami king soundtrack and it's really, really good. *01:11:53* Um so just scroll back in the feed and you can uh check out those show notes that's right in there for you. *01:11:57* But I I feel like that kind of wraps up our discussion. *01:12:02* We've kind of really, I think, expressed our overall thoughts on the games. *01:12:05* Is there any parting thoughts or uh things you want to say? *01:12:08* Anything, Tomas, you got anything you want to say to our dearly p departed uh color splash? *01:12:12* Yeah, uh rest in peace, Yui. *01:12:17* Uh up there in the dark sky. *01:12:19* Yeah, the the the big black void, he's the he's the star up there, and he's always in our hearts. *01:12:21* And anytime I paint I shall think of him. *01:12:26* Rip Huey. *01:12:31* Logan, anything? *01:12:33* I'm really dreading Sticker Star. *01:12:35* Oh, Sticker Star is a worse version of this game. *01:12:39* Like everything we've talked about here *01:12:45* I was like, oh man, like I am really like the one saving grace of that will once again be that I can play it on a handheld and do something else in the background *01:12:47* I am not. *01:12:56* I I'm I will say our next episode, our next episode, I I mean since we're wrapping this one up, super paper mark, I'm really excited to play that actually. *01:12:57* Uh I've got I'm I'm raring to go. *01:13:04* I've got that all set up. *01:13:06* I've got my *01:13:07* We controller at the ready and uh we're gonna start I'm gonna I'm gonna start playing that here pretty soon and we're gonna have I do you want me to say who we're gonna have on the next episode max for that *01:13:08* No, no, let the people be surprised. *01:13:19* So we will have a guest on that one. *01:13:21* Another old friend of ours. *01:13:22* Not Tomas. *01:13:25* Another old friend of I guess mine. *01:13:26* I don't think you know. *01:13:28* our guest very well for the next time. *01:13:29* Mm-mm. *01:13:31* But uh yeah, that'll be fun. *01:13:32* I'm really looking forward to that in Sticker Star. *01:13:34* I mean d *01:13:36* The end is in sight with this. *01:13:37* And I I I I said this before in our in our last uh and I I said this before in one of our last episodes that uh *01:13:39* We've I I feel like I've been kind of dour as we play through these and I'm kinda like bad mouthing them and I don't want it to come across as like I'm like *01:13:46* slaving them away and this is like some miserable experience playing through all these games 'cause I'm no one wants to hear me be like, oh hey, it's listen to my podcast where I talk about how much I hate the thing that I'm doing. *01:13:54* Because I really do enjoy playing these games, even the ones that are *01:14:05* I will say I'm looking forward to sticker star because if it is terrible, I'm looking forward to our what our conversation will be like in in lieu of that. *01:14:08* I think it's interesting to kind of uh rip into games sometimes. *01:14:16* So if that is bad *01:14:20* Okay, that's fine. *01:14:21* Um Yeah, I don't know. *01:14:23* Ind is in sight. *01:14:26* I I've I've enjoyed how these have gone so far. *01:14:27* I don't know about you, Max. *01:14:29* Yeah, I've I've been enjoying this season a lot. *01:14:31* I also have Super Paper Mario ready to rumble. *01:14:34* I'll be playing it. *01:14:38* Uh *01:14:39* I'm actually dog sitting for some friends right now and they still have their Wii hooked up to their television. *01:14:40* Are they j are they just dancers? *01:14:46* I I I have no idea. *01:14:49* Uh but I do know that I'm gonna be using their Wii to start it and then I will use an SD card to move my save data. *01:14:50* That was actually my question. *01:14:57* I was like, wait, how are we gonna do this? *01:14:58* How's this gonna move? *01:14:59* I'm just gonna move my *01:15:01* With the SD card. *01:15:02* Good old SD card. *01:15:04* So I think that's everything about Paper Mario Color Splash. *01:15:05* Thank you all for listening to this episode of Chapter Select. *01:15:10* Uh Tomas, where can the people find you online in your work? *01:15:15* So right now I am on Twitter at *01:15:20* My full name, Tomas Franzizy, T-O-M-A-S-F-R-A-N-Z-E-S-E on Twitter. *01:15:23* And then I also write uh for inverse. *01:15:29* com. *01:15:32* I cover uh the video game industry. *01:15:33* Uh *01:15:35* a mix of like Xbox Game Pass, new game announcements, some interesting kind of uh features where I speak to analysts to talk about new developments. *01:15:36* So if you like reading about games, check out uh inverse. *01:15:45* com's gaming section. *01:15:48* Cool. *01:15:50* And the links to that will be in the show notes. *01:15:51* Uh for Logan, you can check him out at Moreman12 on Twitter. *01:15:53* He writes over at comicbook. *01:15:58* com also about the video game industry. *01:15:59* Look at these two boys. *01:16:02* There's *01:16:03* Big full grown-ups out here doing the real the real work. *01:16:03* God's work out there. *01:16:07* He you just recently reviewed Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart. *01:16:09* Uh great review. *01:16:12* Um and you've got more stuff coming up here soon. *01:16:14* Anything in particular you wanna point people towards? *01:16:18* Um I don't think so. *01:16:21* Where I so where we're recording this, I mean we are recording these pretty close to where we are now in real time, so *01:16:22* Uh yeah, just coming out of E3, things are kind of slowing down, but I'm fine with that. *01:16:28* Um yeah, I don't know. *01:16:34* Just keep following our coverage moving forward at comicoke. *01:16:35* com. *01:16:38* I I think moving *01:16:38* Think I'm supposed to review death's door death's door uh this coming month. *01:16:40* So if you wanna see anything I will critically be passing judgment on, that would be the main thing. *01:16:45* Um but nothing else I can think of at the moment. *01:16:50* Okay. *01:16:53* Uh I do want to thank both of you for finishing this game on time coming into and out of E3. *01:16:54* Because I do know that that's actually like one of the busiest times of the year for you guys, so I do really appreciate that. *01:17:01* Me, I just gotta kick back and like freak out that Metroid was back. *01:17:06* Yeah, you ha you definitely finished this one before either of us. *01:17:09* So you're like, oh I'm done. *01:17:12* I'm like, I haven't I've not even started Met. *01:17:13* I mean the the Wii U is the best Metroid system *01:17:16* It's got all but like I think Metroid two all the time. *01:17:18* It's the top top charts right now, all the Metroid games are the top. *01:17:21* Does it really have does it have *01:17:25* Does the Wii Up? *01:17:27* It has the Prime Trilogy, it has uh both Game Boy Advanced games, it has the NES game, it has Super Metroid, it has other M. *01:17:29* It has every Metroid game. *01:17:36* Except except Metroid 2. *01:17:38* Samus Returns. *01:17:40* And Hunter. *01:17:42* Well no, it does have Hunters. *01:17:42* It does have Hunters on the DS bat eShop. *01:17:44* Wow. *01:17:47* So it's the nearest thing. *01:17:48* Don't play colors, play Metroid instead. *01:17:49* The thesis. *01:17:52* Logan would get very upset with me if we did that right now. *01:17:53* Uh we've already got season two filed away. *01:17:56* We've already got something else in the cards. *01:17:59* Maybe in the future though *01:18:01* And for my work, uh you can check it out over at maxfrequency. *01:18:04* net. *01:18:07* It's just my blog where I write stuff. *01:18:08* Uh if you would like a more casual laid-back podcast, you can check out the max frequency podcast. *01:18:10* I just have different guests. *01:18:15* uh throughout the months and just we talk about whatever tickles our fancy that time. *01:18:16* And if you'd like to know about uh the history of Naughty Dog during the PS4 era, you can check out Chasing the Stick. *01:18:22* Um, just go to chasingthestick. *01:18:28* com. *01:18:29* You can read or listen to that. *01:18:30* Uh it basically chronicles their whole development from the end of the PS3 in 2013 all the way up through uh 2020 and the release of The Last of Us Part Two. *01:18:31* So check that out. *01:18:40* And then I don't know if I mentioned I'm on Twitter at maxroberts143. *01:18:42* I tweet probably far too much. *01:18:46* Uh so thank you very much for listening and until next time. *01:18:48* Adios. *01:18:51*