# Chapter Select, [[S1E5 - Super Paper Mario]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome back to Chapter Select, a seasonal gaming talk show where we break down one game each season and talk about its design, history, and legacy. *00:00* I am Logan Moore. *00:10* I am your host for this fifth episode of the season where we will be talking about Super Paper Mario. *00:12* Joining me today, as always, is Max Roberts. *00:17* Hello. *00:21* Hey Logan. *00:22* It's a little weird to say super paper Mario, isn't it? *00:23* Because every other game has been Paper Mario Colon subtitle. *00:26* A little bit. *00:30* It's weird to have another word in front of the word paper. *00:30* It this one is the most different of them all though. *00:34* So it does make sense that it's named differently though. *00:38* So I I kind of I kinda like that. *00:41* And we'll obviously get into that much more in detail as we move forward. *00:43* Uh our guest for this episode *00:46* Joining us to talk about this video game is I was gonna say I don't know where you write or what things you do. *00:49* You do all kinds of things now. *00:55* You do a bantam banter. *00:58* You're also a game perman. *00:59* You're also an IGNer, I think, as well, sort of. *01:01* Yeah. *01:05* Anyway, this is uh Ricky Freck is here. *01:06* Hi, Ricky. *01:08* Hey, how's it going, guys? *01:08* Okay. *01:10* It's going good. *01:11* Hanging in there. *01:12* The uh You're almost at the end of the tunnel, so yeah, exactly. *01:13* That is exactly it. *01:16* As Logan's been saying, the light *01:17* is at the end of the tunnel. *01:19* Real time as we're recording this, season one will be done in three weeks and it kind of feels really good. *01:20* It feels really good. *01:26* Like I I feel like we keep talking about this on these episodes, like, almost in a negative sense that we just want this over, but *01:27* Like and and we've talked about this publicly as well if you follow us on Twitter and stuff like that, but we've had this idea kicking around in our heads since last summer, and specifically the idea has been from the beginning to do season one based around Paper Mario since like *01:33* last June, so for us to be like, oh finally, it's over. *01:48* It's almost over. *01:52* It's almost over. *01:53* It's not just like a six episode run here that we've released over the course of the past couple months. *01:53* This is like a *01:58* A 14-16 month project that we're finally going to finish for at least the first season. *01:59* So that feels nice to be *02:05* Yeah, check out. *02:06* Paper Mario Origami King just celebrated its one year anniversary, and we decided on the subject of this season before Origami King came out. *02:07* So it it feels good to be kind of at the end of this particular season. *02:16* And we already have two and three lined up, so we're we're eager to to get started on those as well. *02:20* For sure. *02:26* So *02:27* Super Paper Mario. *02:28* Um before we get into talking about, you know, our history and what we thought of the game and all that stuff, let's *02:30* Break down what this actually is. *02:36* So this is the third game chronologically in the franchise. *02:38* Obviously we're doing episode five here because of how we structure these seasons. *02:42* Uh but the developer behind the game was once again Intelligent Systems. *02:46* It released on the Nintendo Wii on April 9th, 2007. *02:50* And it released later in Japan. *02:55* That's an That's an odd thing. *02:57* That's something you don't see all that often. *02:59* Um, especially at least for games back then. *03:01* Uh nowadays maybe that'd be a little bit more common in some instances, but *03:04* uh fifteen years almost fifteen years ago that would not have been a thing. *03:08* Uh game director was Ryota Kawade. *03:12* He directed Thousand Year Door and was also he also worked on uh *03:15* Paper uh paper Mario for Nintendo 64. *03:19* Uh the producers were Kinsuke Tanabe and Ri Ryoichi Kidan Kidanishi *03:21* I think. *03:28* Yes. *03:29* Uh the composers on the game were Naoka Matome, uh Chica Sekigawa, and Yusih Yasuhisa Baba. *03:29* That's an interesting one. *03:39* That's one of the more unique ones we've had so far. *03:40* Uh Metacritic's average on this game was eighty-five out of a hundred. *03:42* So this was generally one of the more *03:46* Well received entries in this year's. *03:48* I think this is actually above it's above uh Metacreek wise, it's above Orgami King Color Splash, Sticker Star. *03:50* Um *03:56* And it it's it's third in the in the series, Metacritic wise, only been below the first two. *03:57* It's very strange to me that 93 overall for the original Paper Mario still, but *04:03* Yeah. *04:07* It I it just struck me as you were reading the date, but this game came out six months after the Wii launch. *04:08* This is effectively a launch window game for the Wii. *04:14* Yeah. *04:16* Oh wow. *04:17* Yeah, I remember like I think 2007, I wanna say WarioWare Smooth Moves also came out, like that same year, like in the early part of that year. *04:18* I think No More Heroes may have been an early 2007 Wii game as well. *04:27* Uh these were the games I remember coming out like pretty early on in that console's life cycle. *04:32* I g I guess talking about our own histories with the game *04:37* I had never played this one before at all until we played it here. *04:41* I did have a neighbor back in the day who actually bought this and I was exposed to it a little bit through him. *04:45* Uh so I have like seen the game and I've like dabbled with a level or two of it. *04:51* Um so in on that regard like I knew that this game was different from the others and I knew kind of how it operated and what it was like. *04:56* Um but I had never played any of it really until we started getting going with it here. *05:03* Ricky, you said you had played this though, right? *05:08* Yeah, uh that's kind of not true, but is true. *05:11* Uh so *05:14* So my friend had it and I played we played like the first two or three levels together and this came out I mean yeah this came out right before I went to college. *05:16* Yeah, right before I went to college *05:26* And so I think we played it during the summer sum. *05:28* And then I remember watching a playthrough, like a full playthrough on YouTube, because I knew I wasn't going to be able to play the rest of it on my own. *05:30* So I've played like maybe half of it. *05:37* And then watched it. *05:40* So I guess that counts. *05:41* I don't know. *05:43* I mean you've probably played more of it than us, like, not s not to speak for Max, but I know you you dabbled with it as well, kinda similar to me, right? *05:43* Yeah, it's just I I borrowed it from a friend and maybe played. *05:50* I definitely only played *05:53* one world at most. *05:56* I never I haven't seen anything past the first chapter. *05:57* I d I didn't even get to Peach. *06:01* Um so I definitely have played very little of this game. *06:04* Um but it's it was always on the periphery, you know. *06:08* I got the weave later after launch. *06:13* uh used because you know it was so hard to get a wee and stuff. *06:17* 'Cause your parents didn't love you. *06:20* Sure. *06:23* Right. *06:23* Sure. *06:24* Why why *06:25* You know, the Wii was so big and we lived on an island at the time, so that makes it, you know, even harder to get something to and it just uh it was always on the periphery because I had loved Thousand Your Dar s door so much on the um on the GameCube and it just *06:26* It always it was like uh a shit passing by in the night. *06:40* I just always never m got around to it. *06:44* That was one thing I dwelled on a lot as I was *06:47* playing through it this time as well was because yeah I had played Thousand Year Door by the time that this had come out and so I was reflecting back on that I was like wait I loved Thousand Year Door when I was a kid *06:50* Why would I have not wanted to pick this up? *07:01* And I think it was seriously just an issue where I would have been twelve or thirteen, which means I had no income. *07:03* So yeah I mean it w yeah I would have been twelve we you and I both would have been twelve when this came out at least initially right Max we would have turned thirteen a couple *07:12* Months later, but we'd have been twelve when this came out. *07:20* Which means I had no source of income. *07:22* Which means I I can't just buy games left and right like I do nowadays. *07:25* Uh so that was probably the main reason why I didn't. *07:28* Plus I do remember uh seeing it at my friend's house being played, and I'm like, ah, why isn't this like Thousand Year Door? *07:32* This is dumb. *07:39* And *07:40* That's kind of been the lingering thing with this whole franchise with every installment since uh since Thousand Year Door, but I definitely think of the ones we've played so far *07:41* And I'm gonna guess moving forward with the next one we're gonna play, this will potentially hold true as well. *07:51* I mean personally, I think this is the best one outside of the first two, like by far. *07:58* Um, I think this is much better than Color Splash and it's much better than uh origami king. *08:03* This would be up in my top three for sure. *08:09* So the first three are my favorite three. *08:12* Um *08:15* Uh where are you where are you falling with that since you you've obviously been here playing them all alongside me in this podcast? *08:16* I wonder how much of that has to do with Ryota Kwate? *08:23* Like, 'cause he directed the first three and then hasn't been involved with the series since. *08:27* I wonder how much of that is his influence. *08:31* I was also just in general surprised at how much of this game I didn't know about. *08:34* I really thought that this game *08:38* I I suppose for lack of a better word, gimmick-wise was simply rotating the world and turning it into a 3D game. *08:41* And it's way more than that with being it the playable characters of Peach and Bowser and Luigi and the pixels providing abilities and stuff. *08:49* Because of r when we started this game, I thought this is Mario and you're *08:58* Partners are going to be the pixels. *09:03* And I was like, well, that's really lame. *09:06* Uh but then they they bring in Peach and Bowser, and they're not partners per se, they're just different playable characters, which I think is actually a really unique *09:08* spin with different abilities and then the pixels provide you know funky different things that you can do. *09:17* So I was really surprised by this game. *09:23* The thing I like about them being playable characters too is that *09:26* It builds off of the first two games in that way really well because in the first two games, except for the first one, you don't play as Bowser. *09:30* But in Thousand Your Door, you do, there are sections where you play as Peach, and there are sections where you play as. *09:37* Bowser. *09:41* . *09:42* . *09:42* You don't ever play as Luigi in any of the other ones. *09:42* But like they had always introduced those elements of giving you time to play as other characters in that world outside of Mario. *09:44* So *09:51* It's a novel, unique way to build on those concepts from the first game, uh obviously in a much larger way this time around and in a much different much more different format. *09:52* Um but yeah, Ricky, what were your general impressions, I guess, of playing through this time around? *10:04* Obviously you've not been playing all the others with us, but *10:09* Um yeah, I s I guess I think I'm trying to remember which ones I've all played. *10:12* Because I like I reviewed Orgami King last year. *10:17* Yes. *10:21* Uh at the same time I was reviewing Deadly Prime Nation 2. *10:21* The latter was a much better game. *10:25* Um and then uh I think I've played the first two, and I think that might be it. *10:27* And I might have just watched someone else play the first, so I don't remember. *10:33* But I'm right there with you. *10:36* I think of the ones I played, this is in the top three. *10:37* I think it's probably my second favorite. *10:40* Which a lot of that is just like. *10:43* Which we'll talk about soon, but uh when O Chunks leaves he farts away stuff like that just had me rolling. *10:45* Um *10:53* And I guess I don't know. *10:55* I don't really care about the combat systems so much as I care about the writing or the jokes. *10:58* And I think this one had *11:06* jokes that landed. *11:07* And I don't remember Thousand Your Door Paper Mario as well as I do Origami King, but it landed way better than Origami King for the most part. *11:08* For sure. *11:16* Yeah, I I think uh that's actually let's talk about the writing, I guess, and deeper do a deeper dive on that because I think that is the one thing a lot of people talk about with this game is it's definitely one of the big takeaways is the writing of the game. *11:18* Um because there are a lot of wacky characters in this world, some of them speak in rhymes or in the third person or *11:31* There's just uh there's some very wacky characters that you come across in this in this game. *11:39* Uh I w I made it ever this is a very it inside baseball sort of thing, but every time we do one of these *11:44* Uh bring a guest and we've been making like a Discord call with them and I made our uh profile i icon for our group chat Francis *11:51* Because I knew he was supposed to be like one of the funnier characters from the game. *11:59* And that guy is nuts. *12:02* That guy's crazy. *12:03* There's some great sequences with him with all the visual novel stuff that they pull out of Left Field. *12:03* Oh my gosh. *12:09* It's so good. *12:10* That stuff is all great. *12:11* Yeah, there's just there's so many strange moments like that throughout the game too. *12:13* Like it's not like *12:18* one-off instances with just oh well we'll introduce a weird character who d who's doing this in one specific spot. *12:19* Like it they're very the dialogue is constantly engaging and it's constantly doing things you wouldn't expect and characters are saying things you wouldn't expect. *12:26* Uh yeah, definitely upper echelon writing for the series, I I believe. *12:34* I think it's telling that in our Discord chat you sent a picture. *12:40* uh of it just said eat poop and I was like oh I don't remember that being in the game but it makes sense I could see that the being a line in this game and of course the you know you wrote that in there so it wasn't something the game did *12:45* But I was just like, yeah, okay, I could see O'Cunks or someone screaming eat poop at me. *12:57* That makes perfect sense. *13:02* And I think that kind of like nails the tone of the game. *13:03* in a lot of ways. *13:05* Or at least the humor. *13:06* To explain the eat poop thing, like yeah, there's one character in the game who is when you meet them, he's like, oh hey, what's your catchphrase, bro? *13:08* Or whatever. *13:14* I'm like, I I I don't know. *13:14* And that was just the first thing that popped into my head because I'm still eight years old in a 27-year-old man's body. *13:17* And so I *13:23* Pun I punched that in, I was like, let's see if it tries to stop me, because sometimes in Nintendo games you try to say pooper pee or whatever, and it's like, oh that's a that's a word you can't say. *13:24* And lo and behold, nope. *13:33* Man screen oop eep oop and I took a picture of it. *13:35* So very good. *13:38* So yeah. *13:40* It you know, you were comparing it a little bit to the origami king in that way. *13:41* I think *13:46* We said about Origami King that it feels like the the writing staff just wrote whatever they could and threw it to the wall and just if it hits, it hits, and if it doesn't, it doesn't. *13:46* And I feel like this is *13:56* a more refined approach to that where they did write everything they came up with, but then they they focused it in a little bit. *13:58* Uh which I appreciated. *14:04* It you like you were talking about, they if there's third person, they break the fourth wall quite a bit. *14:05* It's I wrote the word zany, like it's it's very wacky kind of game. *14:10* But it also had a very tech focused theme. *14:15* there were it the uh what is it, Nastasia? *14:20* Like she's very computer oriented. *14:24* There's a lot of like hacking, computer, internet *14:26* Cyber references that dragon in the desert is like a robot. *14:30* Like it was very tech focused. *14:33* And that didn't this game really doesn't feel papery at all, uh, in any capacity. *14:35* Paper *14:42* isn't a part of it. *14:43* It's just the art direction, I suppose. *14:44* And it felt more complicated. *14:46* They lean into those like storybook qualities that we've talked about before with the first two games. *14:47* Like those are still a little bit present. *14:52* But yeah, as far as like using the art style, this is *14:54* Far and away the one that feels least like a paper crafted type game. *14:58* Yeah, it just felt like a computer adventure more so, which was interesting. *15:02* Uh it's definitely unique in that way. *15:07* I think the other thing with the writing, and this speaks more to like the overall plot too, is that I think they did a good job of not only *15:10* making all the characters kinda wacky and out there. *15:20* Like you said, Zany. *15:22* Like everybody every character that you c come across, even the straight faced ones in this game are *15:23* weird and quirky in their own ways and they'll say things to elicit a chucka chuckle out of you. *15:27* But conversely, I feel like this one has one of the better through line narratives as well. *15:33* And again, no Mario narrative is ever gonna, you know *15:37* stick with you forever, make you oh, it's up there with Bioshock and The Last of Us is the great great stories in gaming told. *15:41* But this the story in this game is much more cohesive and it is much more *15:47* uh a center piece of the actual game I feel like. *15:53* Um, especially compared to some of the other ones where it is on on paper it y it's still very much just, you know, go collect all the all the things we tell you to go collect because that's kinda how all these games work. *15:56* Yeah. *16:07* But they would even at the end of every chapter, they would try to throw in these little asides of introducing these characters and like kind of trying to keep your attention on *16:07* Keep a carrot on the stick in front of you with like the larger things that are happening within the story. *16:17* Um so to where it comes to comes to some sort of *16:21* Neat conclusion, I guess, or maybe not neats the good word, but I a conclusion that makes sense. *16:26* Like the where the game starts and where it ends, there's *16:30* Uh it's like this stupid George Lucas thing. *16:33* It does there's po it's like poetry or rhymes or whatever. *16:35* Like the g the way the game ends is pretty much the exact same way that the opening cutscene starts, which is kind of an interesting, cool thing. *16:38* Um *16:45* Yeah, I don't know. *16:46* I I thought it was much more cohesive, I I will say, from beginning to end. *16:47* It's very focused. *16:53* It definitely has a singular goal, like end goal, of a story to tell. *16:54* It didn't have *16:58* I feel like Thousand Year Door specifically kind of had a few more twists of like, here are the X knots, but oh it's really the Shadow Queen and like that stuff. *16:59* I th *17:09* That's a that sticks with me. *17:09* Oh, we were actually working for the Shadow Queen the whole time. *17:11* Yeah. *17:13* Predictable, but still a bit more exciting. *17:15* This was fairly obvious, like *17:19* the relationship between Tippy and Count Black and like that that sort of stuff s came came f it was pretty clear early on. *17:21* Uh *17:31* But it definitely has a through line. *17:31* I do think they throw you into the action a bit quickly. *17:34* It's just like Bowser and Peach are getting married and now there's like this evil chaos heart and it's like bam bam bam. *17:38* Uh there was no real easing into the plot. *17:45* It was just go. *17:48* I feel like they're all kind of like that though, because *17:51* I the first one I will say the first Paper Mario ramps up a little bit better, but Color Splash was legitimately I got mailed a toad in the mail, we're hopping on a boat. *17:54* Yes, but it that was at least *18:05* It eased you into it. *18:08* It was like a male, uh, what's happening in this town, and then it it turned into a bigger thing. *18:10* And then this one starts with a grand spectacle and a bajillion characters on the colour. *18:14* It's very quick and hard and fast. *18:18* Um *18:21* You know, even Thousand Your Door has like the cutscene before the menu with Peach getting the map. *18:21* It, you know, Mario shows up. *18:26* Like it they've eased you in, but this is like *18:28* We are going. *18:31* They give you a heart within the opening five minutes of the game. *18:32* So they just hand it to you. *18:34* Which is it's kind of refreshing if I'm being honest. *18:36* I was like, oh okay, cool. *18:39* One of them downs are one of them's already down. *18:41* That's nice. *18:43* That's that's that's good for my completion screen. *18:43* What do you think about the story, I guess, in a general sense, Ricky? *18:46* Yeah, I mean I think, you know *18:51* uh is very predictable like you said. *18:54* Uh but I guess I do think they like I don't know. *18:56* I I think they could have done some more interesting stuff *19:01* Like I really thought n I don't again, you know, it's been fifteen years so I didn't remember the exact story, but I really thought Nastashia or however you say her name was gonna play a more prominent role. *19:03* Yeah. *19:13* And so I guess I guess me thinking she was gonna come into it, I didn't *19:14* It took me a while to figure out oh and again I don't know how to pronounce all their names, Dementio. *19:19* I think it's Dementio. *19:24* Dementio. *19:25* That's okay. *19:26* I didn't see him being the one to turn until a little bit in. *19:27* And I'm not saying like that's some big *19:30* you know, twist or anything. *19:32* But it they did like to m for me at least, I was more expecting it to go one way and then it went a different way. *19:34* So even of playing it before and or at least watching it before, um *19:40* It was a little bit surprising in some regards, but yeah, I think like the main story is very, you know, cut and dry, pretty basic, which isn't a bad thing, I don't think. *19:45* Because again, I think a lot of it is they want to tell their jokes and so if they can g if if they can get to the jokes in a way that makes sense, then I'm good with it. *19:56* I I do want to say that while the overall game has a really tight, pretty through narrative line, I thought the individual stories in each world or overall chapter *20:07* weren't as strong as they've been in other games. *20:19* They can see are very forgettable. *20:23* They're pretty hidden as well. *20:25* I think part of that is the gameplay though. *20:28* Because I mean I'm thinking about the one uh what is it called underwear? *20:32* Or I guess you go away from underwear to out *20:38* Over there. *20:41* And that place, like it's just you're walking up clouds. *20:42* There's never a real plot. *20:45* Forever. *20:47* There's no *20:48* Yeah. *20:50* Hey, we turned a heart into our daughter. *20:51* But that's a lot of those areas, especially towards the back half, I feel, is a lot of those areas are just like *20:55* Fetch quests with a lot of backtracking, which kind of makes it hard to tell a good story. *21:02* The Francis stuff was the one that I thought was really good, but the one thing I didn't like about that is the three levels before his castle seem super disconnected from everything else involving him. *21:06* Like he shows up and you're introduced to him right away in that chapter and then he's totally gone there. *21:16* Like you gotta get to his castle and then you gotta *21:21* Climb a tree and go th clo go through a meadow area, like all these different things that don't have anything to do with him, and I think they would have done a better job of *21:23* trying to put him at the forefront of like all four of those levels a little bit more. *21:33* Yeah, I didn't like the caveman stuff. *21:36* I thought that guy with the TV cameras was not great. *21:38* I think he I thought I thought his dialogue was *21:40* His dialogue annoyed me. *21:43* I like uh like s some of the stuff like I think most of the writing in this game works, but his dialogue specifically like annoyed me. *21:45* I was like, I don't like this guy, but this is not funny. *21:51* He was the one character I guess that got kind of on my nerves throughout the course of the game. *21:54* Um but yeah the caveman prehistoric stuff was fine. *21:58* What else was there? *22:01* I don't even remember what the first one was. *22:02* Chapter six, the whole samurai tournament thing. *22:04* Like is a total wash for me. *22:06* Um b besides the gameplay which we'll talk about like narratively, it's just like go fight *22:08* 20 people and Well, I like that they show you what happens when a world actually gets sucked up. *22:14* I thought that was like a cool wrinkle in it, but yes, everything before that is very much super rough. *22:18* Yeah *22:24* Um and even even the main hub of Flip Side and Flopside, I did I didn't feel encouraged to explore them whatsoever outside of the pillars. *22:25* And those you could usually kind of figure out where they were. *22:38* Most of the like the townhouses, like there were so many homes in that game, I don't even know what the point of them was. *22:41* Like there'd people there'd be people in them that like *22:47* You could talk to and they would imply that you would have to come back later, but I would go back and talk to them every now and then and they'd say the same things. *22:50* I'm like *22:56* Is there just I mean clearly I'm missing some things and there's more to that game than meets the eye or more than what I played, but I like I was trying to go out of my way at times to talk to certain people and *22:58* In the towns and it just never led anywhere. *23:08* It I think I think uh f flip side and ultimately flop side were just *23:11* purely bob worlds. *23:17* Like they it's just to get you from one point to the other. *23:19* It's it's essentially the castle in Super Mario 64, but not interesting. *23:21* Like there's nothing to really do there. *23:25* I mean the best aspect of it to me was the reveal of flop side. *23:29* I thought that was funny. *23:32* I thought that was like when you did figure that out, I thought that that was very easy. *23:34* Yeah, no, that's cute, but just the the actual world, it and I think that leads to also the whole game feeling a little disjointed because they did switch to this *23:38* level-based structure, which from a gameplay perspective I loved. *23:48* It made it feel snappy and refreshing, especially after playing all of the regular RPGs so far. *23:51* But this did not feel cohesive like *23:58* the Origami King or Thousand Your Door or even 64. *24:01* Like the it just felt even Color Splash with its world map and individual levels felt more connected. *24:05* than this did. *24:12* The one last thing I will say about the story, and then we can talk about something else. *24:14* Um and going back to like more how more how cohesive it was and how it kind of made sense a little bit *24:18* Um, the past couple the past few games we have played, the stories have come down to, oh, why is this all happening? *24:24* And it is, oh, I'm Bowser and I just want to take a bath and some paint, or *24:30* Oh, I'm a origami dude and I someone folded me or somebody wrote on me or something. *24:34* Like they get to the end of these storylines and they don't know like how to create an actual like *24:40* reason behind the events of everything that have happened. *24:47* And so to that end, I at least appreciated that CountBlex motivations made more sense for it for once. *24:50* Like even *24:57* Uh the uh the other two, uh Thousand Year Door and Paper Mario, like, those games make sense as well. *24:58* But uh yeah, uh we've just been on a string of Paper Mario stories where *25:03* The underlying motivations behind what is going on in the game are totally so bafflingly stupid that it almost takes me out of the experience to a degree. *25:08* Um *25:18* And so that's why I guess I enjoyed the story a bit more this time around. *25:18* Uh let's talk about the one thing that is totally different though, and that's uh gameplay, obviously. *25:22* This is the *25:27* Paper Mario game that is unlike any of the other Paper Mario games, uh even more so than the other ones that are like pseudo-RPGs now. *25:28* This is just a straight-up platformer. *25:37* uh which is very refreshing within the context of the larger series, and I generally liked most of what they did gameplay-wise in this game. *25:39* Uh there were some difficult *25:48* puzzles and things like that I thought that I would have to like look up assistance for that I thought were a little obtuse at times, but that's like one of my only main complaints with uh I guess general gameplay stuff. *25:51* How how'd you guys feel about it? *26:02* I think that this is the one I've played that would be the most beneficial for a remaster. *26:05* And a lot of that is because um *26:12* I only have a Wiimote, and so that D-pad sucks. *26:15* Yeah. *26:18* So the platforming was, it wasn't bad platforming, it was just made difficult because the Wiimote. *26:19* Sucks. *26:25* Is this replayable with a remote, right? *26:26* Because you have to be able to point at the screen. *26:29* You gotta point at the screen. *26:31* Yeah. *26:33* So I think like like you're saying, I think that the gameplay is good. *26:35* I just wish and also there's like *26:39* You can hit uh what is it one and two to bring up a quick menu to switch between pixels and characters. *26:42* If that was on a normal controller and I could just hit, you know, like a trigger or a *26:49* shoulder button to switch quicker that would make this game so much more fun to play for me at least because there's so much where I'm just *26:54* You know, okay, oh I gotta pause, take a break. *27:03* Who do I need to get out? *27:06* What do I need? *27:07* You know, I just wish it was faster, snappier. *27:07* Um but that doesn't mean it's bad. *27:09* It just means that, you know, games have come a long way in fourteen years and *27:12* Um, I think this one is the one that could benefit the most from an update. *27:16* I didn't even think of it in that that context of like bringing it to modern platforms. *27:21* It's *27:25* You know, I'm only saying this because it's so fresh, but like Skyward Sword and other games designed for the Wii in its particular time, more motion control based than just the actual Wii remote. *27:26* But you know, they were able to put button controls in it. *27:38* And I th I definitely think this game easily could be done with button controls. *27:41* There's no motion involved. *27:45* It's simply just *27:46* Pointing at the screen, which can be done with the right analog stick or even gyro controls with all of Nintendo on the Switch and stuff. *27:47* Yeah. *27:54* And the and then the little the little circle comes up. *27:55* But this game *27:57* I think you s said a good word, Logan, refreshing. *27:59* Not just in the context of us, this is the fifth episode in a six episode season, like it but for the series *28:03* This sticks out so much because you can see that this like the level structure. *28:11* Well that definitely is carried through the rest of the series. *28:19* And only up until the origami king has it really come back more to the Thousand Year Doran 64 style of a a connected world. *28:22* But this whole world structure and real-time combat, like *28:31* This game doesn't fit, but it does. *28:35* I thought I wasn't gonna enjoy this real-time combat at all, but it felt way more engaging and rewarding than I ever expected because there is experience. *28:39* I'm leveling up. *28:47* And I can choose how to approach a fight and between Bowser and Peach and Mario and Luigi I can and then the different pixels, everyone gets a hammer because of that. *28:48* It's just *28:58* That was really cool. *28:59* I do think the jump was like insanely floaty. *29:00* Like he's jump they're jumping the whole screen. *29:03* It was I was specifically, but that's like everyone was jumping real high. *29:05* Uh I I think so speaking to what you said, Max, about how it is so different, but it it feels so alike. *29:11* I I get the feeling from this one that the team who made this game, ev everybody over at Intelligent Systems working that was working there when this game was put together, they *29:19* I just get the feeling that they they knew they wanted to make changes, but they were calculated changes and that it was cohesive in thought and like they had specific goals and specific aims, specific ideas. *29:30* And they just went out and executed on it. *29:42* And that sticks out to me a lot compared to Color Splash and Orgami King because those games feel like they are very. *29:45* uh disconnected at times. *29:54* Like you can't figure out in that game like what the studio actually wants to do in some instances. *29:56* Like *30:03* They'll do a little bit of one thing over here, and then there's this weird combat system, and then there's they add mix-in elements of this one thing, and then they're like those games feel way more like a grab bag in in at at times. *30:03* Um and it just makes them feel clunky and um l yeah, just like there wasn't a clear vision on on those two games compared to this one where yeah, it is totally different from Thousand Year Door and Paper Mario. *30:15* But at the same time, all all the changes that they made were changes that that you know were like hashed out really, really well. *30:29* Um *30:37* But like we like you said before about how we talked a couple episodes ago about how they just threw things at the wall when it came to the writing of Origami King and stuff like that. *30:38* Like nothing feels like it was really thrown at the wall with this. *30:46* Like things may not have *30:49* worked out, but they were very well thought out, if that makes any sense, yeah. *30:51* Mm-hmm. *30:56* I one a couple of points that really stuck out to me that do make this game feel *30:57* I feel like grab baggy is is wrong here, but you'll know what I'm talking about. *31:04* Like when it switched entirely for comedic or just cool nostalgic purposes, like *31:08* the um uh what was the program called like swagger or something. *31:14* exe like the um where Francis tries to romance you or the earthbound fight *31:18* uh with the chain chomp where it's not fight's great. *31:24* Oh like it comes out of total left field but it *31:28* It fits, you know, it feels thought out. *31:32* It doesn't take up a ton of time. *31:35* It neither one of them. *31:36* And they're really good. *31:38* comedic, like especially the dating part. *31:40* It just it hits. *31:43* It's funny. *31:44* It doesn't overstay its welcome, but it also moves the the plot along at a good time. *31:45* It's not like *31:50* And now you have to do this pu like now you have to shoot at paper planes flying at you or something like that. *31:51* This these were minigames that felt thought out and *31:56* Or who really earned it like they stuck the landing on 'em. *31:59* Uh and because there were so few of them, it didn't it didn't feel like it *32:02* overstayed its welcome. *32:07* The shorter nature of the game as a whole too made it feel like it respected your time a lot more in that sense. *32:09* Like we talked about *32:15* uh with again color splash and origami king primarily how those games felt kind of bloated and they would make you do so many things like repeatedly in in those games or *32:16* Oh hey, there's a rock blocking this uh valley. *32:26* Go to the completely other side of the world now to go hop on a boat and do some stuff. *32:29* Ricky knows what I'm talking about because he played that game. *32:35* But they're just like instances within Origami King *32:37* and Color Splash that are just feel uh feels like a huge huge waste of time and they th they could have shaved a couple hours off of both of those games if they would have just maybe *32:40* made some different choices. *32:51* This game, yeah, i it throws some weird stuff at you, but it's never stuff that takes up a lot of your time and you're always right back into the action of, you know, going through a level. *32:52* Pretty soon after it d it throws those things at you, which is great. *33:01* Yeah. *33:05* What did you guys think about the difficulty? *33:05* Because this game's so easy. *33:09* I th I mentioned it before. *33:11* I thought some of the puzzles were hard, honestly. *33:12* Like uh there are so many different *33:14* Maybe not hard, but um tricky. *33:17* Yeah, they make you like really pay attention to the environment sometimes. *33:20* And there are some *33:24* There's just a lot of mechanics in this game, like between all the different pixels and between all the different characters, each of whom have different abilities. *33:25* And then pointing at the screen to like reveal certain things. *33:33* Like I would totally forget that that was a thing sometimes. *33:37* Like there's just a lot of gameplay mechanics in this game, and sometimes the puzzles would want you to use *33:39* one specific thing that maybe you hadn't done in a while and that would kind of throw me for a loop. *33:47* Um like game gameplay wise though, y yeah, I don't think I *33:52* Hit a game over screen except for maybe once and that was maybe intentional on my part when I did it because I wanted to reset or something. *33:56* So yeah. *34:04* Yeah, I had more trouble than Logan did. *34:06* I died I've died quite a few times. *34:09* Not like more than five, but it's been more than it's definitely more than just like *34:11* Hearing what other people say about how easy it is, it was surprising. *34:16* And I think again, I think a lot of that comes back to being bad at controlling on the D-pad, because a lot of it is miss jumps or sliding off something. *34:19* Or, you know, not being able to go where and like you know, like you said, it's floaty. *34:28* So if, you know, you miss something with Peach and you run into somebody, then you're gonna get hit and *34:33* I never went and bought any items, so I was gonna say you lose health quick. *34:39* If you miss, the they hit hard. *34:45* And if you don't have health or anything, by the end of the game, I was really running low on health. *34:47* Yeah. *34:53* Yeah, I went to this I went to the store a lot and stocked up personally. *34:54* Oh well I should do that because I haven't I don't think I bought one thing once at all. *34:58* So there's a good store in flopside. *35:02* Run over there *35:05* Flop the flops store, that's the place to go. *35:06* I think and you know that's another thing I guess is thinking back what you guys are saying about how it respects your time more than origami teaming is definitely true. *35:09* But there is a lot of places where I was getting frustrated how long it took to get around. *35:19* And I think like flopsite is a good example of, you know. *35:23* Okay, I get into a level. *35:27* Now, and this is a me problem. *35:29* Every time I come into an elevator that has a down, I press the down button and I get mad at it because I'm like, why can I not why is this not working? *35:30* And then, you know, I have to go down three floors and then I have to *35:37* Use Mario's power to turn 3D and then run through all this stuff, but I can't do it all at once because my meter goes down and then finally I'm in flop side and now I have to go back up another level. *35:40* You know, it's just like it's a lot of steps to get to somewhere that's pretty simple. *35:48* And then, you know, I don't pay attention, so like the last I mean this is very specific, but the very last door that opens, I just immediately hit my pipe to warp back up to the other doors. *35:52* Yep. *36:03* And then it's like, oh no, this is at the other place. *36:03* So no *36:06* So, I mean, yes, I agree. *36:06* As someone who played, you know, twenty-five or thirty hours of Wargami King in like five days to review it, this game is way better at respecting your time. *36:08* But I still do think like you could easily shave *36:17* an hour or two or even three off of this game and it would be just as good if not better. *36:20* Yeah. *36:25* The 3D mechanic we've *36:26* I think we've briefly mentioned it, but I mean that's like the whole game's gimmick, right? *36:28* I one of them. *36:32* I actually had to I had to look this up, what came out first, because I genuinely couldn't remember. *36:34* But Super Paper Mario obviously is 2007. *36:38* Fez came out in 2012. *36:41* Now I'm not saying the Super Paper Mara like paved the way for Fez, but they do have a very similar mechanic of like looking at a 2D thing. *36:43* But it's actually in a 3D world. *36:50* Now Fez keeps it all in 2D, but you're you're rotating it. *36:51* But I thought that was interesting, that there's a five-year gap between those two. *36:54* I like the three D thing way more than I would have thought. *36:58* If I was ever stuck. *37:01* I was like, oh yeah. *37:03* Turn and go into 3D. *37:04* I thought that was a better gimmick than you know, cards or um, you know, painting a bunch of stuff or folding a bunch of *37:05* Yeah. *37:14* Tossing origami into the air. *37:14* Throw just confetti. *37:16* Yeah. *37:17* I I thought this was actually a really interesting mechanic. *37:19* Because it it always revealed something when you would turn into 3D. *37:23* Even if it's just as simple as like a secret or or or something like that in the environment. *37:27* Like if you use it every now and then you're going to find something, whether it be the main path forward you're supposed to take or just like, oh, what's that over there? *37:32* Oh, treasure chest in a corner I didn't know was here. *37:39* Like yeah, i it there's always something to it. *37:42* Yeah, I I I generally like that mechanic. *37:44* I think it's a good idea. *37:47* I think it's something fun that they *37:48* introduce early and continue to kind of iterate on it in interesting interesting ways throughout the course of the game. *37:50* Uh *37:57* I wish the other characters could do it though. *37:58* I understand that's what makes Mario unique, but it was just another one of those things where, like Ricky said earlier earlier, you kind of need to *38:01* Constantly flip-flop back and forth between everybody. *38:08* Um and and and that's the point. *38:11* Like they want you to use everybody, but yeah, I w I w uh that that that ability is so *38:13* prevalent that I wish it would have been something everybody could have used. *38:19* Or there was a way to level up the meter. *38:24* Like to make it last year. *38:28* Is there? *38:30* There is. *38:31* What do you have? *38:33* You have to do one of the in-game trials of the phone. *38:33* I don't know if Pittsburgh didn't want to do. *38:36* Yeah. *38:39* I think it might be I think you might have to have beaten the game too, but you can get it infinite. *38:39* Oh it doesn't ever go out. *38:44* What? *38:46* I don't know what the benefit to that would be if I'm being totally honest, but *38:47* I don't yeah. *38:50* I mean you might be able to do it before the end of the game. *38:51* I don't know for sure. *38:53* I haven't obviously haven't done it. *38:54* Um It would certainly make like running to flop side easier, like *38:56* If you had to find a new pillar of heart, you just did you know that there's a there's a pipe that you can get from flip side to flop side that you can build? *38:59* Yeah, but you have to pay for and I didn't have enough coins to ever buy it. *39:08* I paid for it. *39:12* Where is it? *39:13* Big money. *39:14* Uh I mean it doesn't matter now, but it's a little bit more. *39:15* It's at the end of the hallway on the first floor and flopside. *39:17* You talk to the side. *39:20* Yeah, the main the main flo the main floor with Merlin on it. *39:21* There's a dude in flopside. *39:26* You have to turn into 3D though. *39:28* That makes me so mad. *39:30* Yeah, it's 300 coins. *39:32* I only used it like twice, but hey, I mean it was convenient those two times. *39:37* So I have like 800 coins because I never buy anything. *39:41* So I was always dirt poor because I kept buying things. *39:45* I do I do miss badges. *39:50* Like I feel like that part of it was kind of stripped away. *39:55* It *39:58* It kind of just reminded me like pixels are the abilities, but it the only thing ever leveling up was attack and health. *39:59* And I I never really felt like I was getting *40:06* I don't know how badges would have even fit into this type of game with real-time combat, but I do miss them. *40:09* I miss their presence for sure. *40:15* I do I did appreciate that they tried to put some sort of *40:17* RPG system in there in a general sense. *40:21* Because like they could have gone down a different path and made it like a Zelda sort of situation where like, oh, every time you get a pure heart, we're gonna increase your *40:25* health by five or something like that. *40:33* Like they could have not put in any mechan any sort of RPG leveling up systems like that in the game. *40:34* So I kind of appreciated that they were there because it always *40:41* encourage me to go fight enemies or at least make sure that I wasn't actively going long periods of time with just avoiding enemies. *40:44* Like I would try to make sure I was *40:52* Oh, there's a person there. *40:54* Hold on. *40:55* I can just hit him real quick with my hammer and kill him and then okay, we'll keep moving on here. *40:56* Uh definitely incentivized me to fight. *41:00* Yeah, so i i i I I think the inclusion of the score system, even though it's incredibly straightforward and there's not a lot going on to it, I I think that that was a good choice. *41:03* Um I mean you know how I feel about badges personally, uh it's *41:13* It's a cool s it's a cool system, but it's it was never my favorite from the other game, so I didn't really miss that per se. *41:17* So in a general sense, yeah, I think gameplay works in this, even though it's quite different from the others. *41:24* Um the thing that you talked about earlier though, Max, that I don't think really works to the same effect as it does in the other games though, is the visuals. *41:29* Um the visuals are good in this game and they hold up somewhat well, but they're just not unique. *41:38* It is just a colorful Mario game, I think. *41:43* I didn't really have any sort of lingering takeaway with the visuals from this game or even the art direction compared to *41:49* Maybe any of the others. *41:57* Um like I I think this would be on the lower rung when it comes to just generalized art direction um and the visual component of the game. *41:59* How did you how did you guys feel about it? *42:07* Yeah, outside of Mimi and the way she switched, like the way that woman uh turns into a spider is definitely the creepiest thing that Mario's ever had. *42:11* But outside of that, I can't really think of anything that stuck stuck out too much visually for me. *42:20* I think the dragon's one of the cooler things early on. *42:27* Sorry to cut you off, man. *42:29* I think that's one of the cooler things early on that they show, and then there's never really anything as cool like that throughout the rest of the game. *42:30* That first boss. *42:36* The closest probably is Bone Chill at the end, another dragon with a cannon at his foot. *42:37* He, you know, he again, uh, dragons seem to be kind of the cooler things than the earlier Paper Mario games. *42:44* Um This R Uh to me is actually very box boyish. *42:49* Like cubes and like spacey and again, this game has like a tech dimensional space vibe to it. *42:58* And I the art really leans into that, but this definitely doesn't feel like Paper Mario visually at all. *43:05* I c could you imagine though this 3D like rotation mechanic, but with that paper aesthetic? *43:11* I mean, essentially you'll have *43:18* Wasn't it Yoshi's woolly world or Epic Yarn or something? *43:20* I think it was Woolly World where you could change the perspective and see like flip to the backside. *43:24* and see everything was made out of paper and tape and things like that. *43:29* I feel like that really would have worked in this game if everything was made out of paper in some way and you could see the world from that 3D perspective. *43:34* That would have been cool. *43:42* But this game *43:43* feels so generic in its art style. *43:45* I think that also lends itself to the characters. *43:47* This game doesn't have the toad problem from later games, but it does have the *43:50* What are these things and who are they and why do I care? *43:56* I like that though. *43:59* I like that a lot. *44:00* Like that was the one thing really of the visual component I was gonna say. *44:01* I like how many unique looking characters *44:04* Except for like the main citizens of flip side and stuff. *44:06* I thought they were kinda yeah, whatever. *44:09* They're weird looking. *44:11* They just didn't uh were not in the mushroom kingdom, which is fine. *44:12* Like going to a different place is totally cool, but they didn't feel like Mario characters to me. *44:16* And the earlier games and then obviously the later ones because they stick so sh it just it felt like we were in a different dimension, which I guess is the goal, but I just couldn't connect to anything. *44:21* Well, I think my feelings on that too, I can't separate from the fact that we've played four Paper Mario games before this. *44:34* So when we get to this one *44:41* And things are looking a little bit different. *44:43* It is refreshing in that sense. *44:45* I I guess for me, like like you said, I'm tired of seeing toads. *44:47* Get the toads out of here. *44:51* No more toads. *44:52* Uh *44:53* So it was it was nice to see a bunch of different character designs and a bunch of different looking people showing up pretty regularly. *44:54* Um and yeah, and and some of them definitely miss I I would say as well. *45:01* I'm not saying every character that shows up in this game is *45:06* grade A Mario character design. *45:09* But like to mention Francis again, like I I think he's great. *45:11* Um I I liked uh even the Merlin dudes I I know they look similar they look similar to are they the actually the exact same *45:15* There's the ones that they're c like clearly related to the Merlins of Sixty Four and Thousand Year Door. *45:22* Like it's that same. *45:28* I liked both of them and uh uh qu Count Black and all of his all of his Count Black is a great design. *45:29* Complex. *45:35* Demincio is the one I didn't really love, if I'm being honest. *45:36* He just looks like a clown court gesture dude, which kinda okay, whatever. *45:39* Like I I guess they wanted to make him unassuming since he is kind of the *45:44* main villain of of the twist, yeah. *45:49* Yeah. *45:52* If they would have made him look too much more like a a bad guy, you maybe could have seen that coming a mile away, even though *45:53* I mean they telegraph that, they kind of loop in the the player on that and make it make the player aware that that's a thing that is happening. *46:00* So um yeah, character designs I didn't think were bad, but also *46:07* Yeah, I I I have toad fatigue, so that's definitely part of it. *46:12* I yeah, I just it felt *46:17* generic to the point where it was forgettable. *46:21* Like I I can tell you except the main people what they look like. *46:23* I can I *46:28* You know, I had no relation to any characters of flip in flip or flop side. *46:29* It was they were just things. *46:34* The one other aesthetic component would be that of the soundtrack and music. *46:38* And this is the one in the series that I have *46:43* I don't know. *46:48* I I'm very mixed on this one more so than the others. *46:49* I think it has some really great tracks. *46:52* Like I think the music that it plays at the end of every chapter *46:55* as the background music to like flesh out the timpani and blame or stuff, like I think that track is great. *47:00* The one with like the ticking clock in the background for the memories. *47:06* That's a great song. *47:10* And then there are others in this game that are just kind of wonky sound and kind of sort of like you said, Max, where everything's a little bit tech influenced in this game, and some of the tracks are *47:11* Tekken, techie, urch they try to sound high-tech or a little bit wacky as well. *47:22* I mean I don't know how well all of those worked *47:27* Um, so I definitely go back and forth with the soundtrack on this one compared to some of the others. *47:30* Did you have any strong feelings coming out of it, Ricky? *47:36* Well, okay. *47:40* So here's part of the problem is a lot of this game I had to play in the room where my wife is working, so a lot of it was muted or at least very quiet. *47:41* Yeah. *47:48* So I'm probably not the best person to talk to about music. *47:49* Um but I will say like *47:52* I do the one thing I specifically remember is the ones when the music that plays when you meet a new pixel and they're talking to you and yeah, I think that music is pretty good. *47:53* Um but otherwise I don't really have too many strong feelings. *48:02* Mostly 'cause I didn't hear a lot of it. *48:05* But uh Did you uh we I forgot to ask at the top, did you play this on a Wii or a Wii U? *48:07* Wii U. *48:15* So you both played the d Wii U We both we both have our br our heads screwed on properly, yes. *48:16* Uh I just you know, I I played it on a Wii with the the T V. *48:23* But anyway, I I was trying to think if there was a way you could have like plugged headphones into the gamepad, but *48:27* I guess then you would have had him in playing off the gamepad and pointing a Wii remote at the game and it turns into a whole mess. *48:33* So it's probably not real feasible. *48:38* Uh d uh my my notes on music are uh nothing really stuck out to me *48:41* I couldn't tell you a single song from this game. *48:49* I would tell you to go back and listen to that one song I'd mentioned specifically. *48:51* And the the pixel the pixel song when you get a new pixel, I can hear that one in my *48:55* head right now as well. *48:59* I I know I'm better with that stuff than you are. *49:00* You are definitely way better than I am at that. *49:02* I a thousand year dory was the other note I had. *49:04* Like it kinda but not *49:09* in that catchy way that I know Thousand Your Doors so well. *49:10* I just I I've like the characters, I this music was just generic to me. *49:15* Even Color Splash or Origami King stuck to me more than *49:20* uh than this, which is a real bummer because Yeah, I I I think it does fall on the uh lesser lesser end of *49:25* m the tracks, like the complete composition of the game is definitely on the lower end in the for the series as a whole. *49:34* So I I I don't disagree with you. *49:41* But there are still good a couple good ones. *49:43* So um I mean we've talked about basically everything at this point. *49:45* Um so *49:51* And I know this is harder for her well, before we get into that conversation, which I know kind of leaves Ricky out a little bit, um *49:53* But I guess what's the legacy of this game? *50:02* I I mean what how do you guys think about this game in a larger sense, especially since we're almost a decade and a half removed since it released, which is *50:04* Crazy. *50:14* Um but yeah, I I guess this is the like we said before, this is the one in the series that is very much different than all the others. *50:15* And it's looked upon fondly, but I don't feel like peop *50:25* When people want more Paper Mario, they never are asking for one in this style, even though that this game is generally appreciated by *50:29* you know, fans and critics alike or what or whatnot. *50:37* So I guess my question is why don't more people want a game in this style? *50:40* Hmm. *50:46* It's weird because *50:47* The GameCube itself wasn't a grand slam. *50:51* Like the system sales and stuff weren't very widespread. *50:53* Obviously, the Wii phenomenon, it you know, it saved Nintendo to a certain degree. *50:56* Um *51:03* But this came out early in the Wii's life. *51:04* And I wonder if I don't know what the sales on this game were, but I just wonder if a lot of people haven't played it. *51:08* This could *51:15* It was came out when the Wii was still hard to get. *51:17* Uh I mean it was re-released later as one of those like $20 select titles. *51:19* But it almost feels like the Forgotten Paper Mario game. *51:24* And then you have to think. *51:27* I I don't remember when Sticker Star came out, but I know Color Splash was twenty sixteen, almost a decade later, you know, like *51:29* They never there was never like a back-to-back style hit. *51:40* Like the first three games really were relatively close in like, you know, people's consciousness that but so much time had passed in the style *51:44* clearly didn't stick. *51:53* Like I just feel like people don't know about this game and at least the difference in its styles. *51:54* You know? *52:00* So l let me sorry to cut you off, but I actually looked this up because I was curious. *52:01* Uh it's actually the best-selling game in the history of the series. *52:05* Wow. *52:08* Okay. *52:09* What uh what are the numbers on that? *52:11* Uh as of 2000 is according to Wikipedia. *52:14* As of 2019, the game had sold a little over four million copies, and it's the best selling paper Mario game to date. *52:18* Sure. *52:24* By comparison, like sticker star only sold about two million, uh has sold about two and a half million. *52:25* Uh color splash sales have never really been given. *52:32* Um that can't be so yeah, it can't be good. *52:36* Okay. *52:39* I just maybe Origami King is second best selling. *52:39* So I basically however Nintendo console sales go, so go the sales of Paper Meyer games. *52:44* Ah, that's so interesting. *52:51* I don't know. *52:53* So gotta throw out your entire theory you just had. *52:54* I guess. *52:57* I I my own theory I guess is just *52:58* Nintendo creates a lot of platforming games already. *53:01* So it's a harder sell to make keep making platforming games in this one style when you're already trying to sell people on fifty other Mario platforming games that they release every now and then. *53:04* So even though this worked, like, yeah, I I'm gonna guess that's Nintendo's reasoning for why um as for why fans don't talk about it more, I'm not really sure. *53:15* Um *53:27* Yeah, it is very much Thousand Year Doors, the one you hear about a lot. *53:28* People always talking about how they want a game to come back in that style or them to remaster that one, but you don't hear too much about Super Paper Mario, it seems. *53:31* Um *53:40* And I don't know why. *53:41* I don't know. *53:43* You don't have a theory, Ricky? *53:44* You don't have like uh Pepe Sylvia type theory? *53:45* I don't I don't ha I don't have a good theory. *53:49* I mean *53:51* No, I mean I think I think this is probably and again my memory is you know kind of hazy up past 30. *53:52* Uh *54:00* But uh this feels like the darkest one they've done. *54:01* Um like they not that it's you know some super gritty take on Mario or anything, but they do go to, you know, the Mario version of hell and uh *54:05* Yeah, but they lessen that by calling it underwear. *54:16* So you know. *54:19* Well, they you can they can't do it out they can't do it all, Logan. *54:20* Um *54:24* So I think that could be a reason people like it, but at the same time, I just can see Nintendo not wanting to go back to that. *54:25* So maybe people are just choosing to fight the battle where they think they have a chance would be the only thing I could think of *54:32* Which I guess kind of ties in with what Logan said about, you know, they're not going to make more platformers, so why would we ask for another platformer? *54:39* Yeah. *54:46* I could see that. *54:47* I just yeah, I I think you're I mean personally speaking, I I have not played like a Mario platformer type game like this in a while, so I think it definitely scratched that itch for me on that front *54:49* Maybe if I had, you know, played new Super Mario Bros. *55:00* the Switch version like a month or two back and then I'd played this, maybe I wouldn't feel as uh positive on it afterward. *55:05* Um *55:12* But yeah, it it is an interesting thing. *55:13* It yeah, it it definitely I I don't disagree with everything that you said though, Max. *55:15* It's strange, even though it is the best-selling one, it seems like the one that's talked about the least. *55:21* You've got the first two that everybody praises a lot. *55:25* You've got uh the later the most recent three which everybody kind of not really dogs on, but like *55:28* It's uh people just don't aren't as fond of them because they want them to go, you know, full RPG back to the roots of the series, and it just doesn't seem like they're willing to commit to that. *55:37* And then this one is smack dab in the middle and it's something totally different and people accept it for what it is, but they also don't really talk about it too much. *55:46* Um and this is all obviously anecdotal, so do you think *55:54* audience gamers, wow however you want to phrase it, uh consumers, would be receptive to a new paper Mario in this style *56:01* I think if it has this uh I think if it has this specific style of writing, then yes. *56:10* And now if it has the hidden miswriting of Origami King, uh yeah, this is gonna be a harder sell. *56:16* Um, because I do think the writing is the one thing that really helps carry this game at times. *56:23* Because I mean the gameplay's good, but it's also not like so special that it can carry the game as a whole or whatever. *56:29* So it would really hinge on who's right in this video game. *56:37* What do you think, Max? *56:41* Uh I don't really know. *56:43* I just asked the question. *56:45* Um no, I think the Paper Mario at least the vocal community would not. *56:48* uh quote unquote fans one thousand your door or sixty four and nothing else. *56:57* Yeah. *57:01* I think if they do I think this would be a good going back to this style would be a good second. *57:02* Like a return. *57:07* So if they do they go back to the pure RPG, then they could do this and people would come. *57:08* I feel like it needs a buffer of a good game. *57:13* in the series first, if that makes sense. *57:17* Like coming off Origami King, people want what they want and if they don't get that, they're not gonna be happy with it. *57:19* Yeah. *57:27* If that makes any sense. *57:28* Something to like ease the blow, so to speak, kind of get people back in the good graces. *57:29* I *57:35* I think even if they remade or remastered or whatever one of the first two, I feel like then whatever was next could *57:36* theoretically be in this style. *57:44* You have to think too, there's probably a whole generation of kids that grew up and this was their Paper Mario game first Paper Mario game. *57:46* You know, out of the four million sales, how many of those were? *57:55* Zoomer's first paper Mario is what you're saying. *57:57* Probably. *58:00* I mean there's there has to be a level of nostalgia for this. *58:01* For sure, yeah. *58:05* I I mean again, anecdotally, our our f our mutual friend Grant has told me that exact thing, that he knows people younger than us who when they talk about Paper Mario games they like, they mention this one before they mention the first two. *58:07* Because they were born in the early two thousands and they would have been five or so when this came out. *58:19* I see Ricky over here like *58:25* In like in like three years you guys will be in the same place. *58:32* Once you hit thirty. *58:35* That's what I'm saying. *58:36* But will you have a child by then, Max? *58:53* That's that's the important question that you have to ask. *58:55* That's largely our discussion on um Super Paper Mario. *58:59* Um this is yeah, a very this was a unique one to play. *59:03* This this is a very different game for all the reasons we've obviously spent the last hour talking about. *59:07* Um *59:12* And the end is in sight, as we said at the top. *59:14* Uh Max and I are nearly done with this with this series. *59:18* And again, I I'm not trying to make that sound as like a thank God we're it's over type type of deal. *59:22* But it it's more just a relief that we uh are going to finish it scene through a thing that we thought of. *59:27* uh sixteen months ago or whatever. *59:33* So um but yeah, I really enjoyed this one. *59:36* And I'm glad that I really enjoyed this one because my fear was that coming off of Origami King in Color Splash that we would dive into this and it wasn't gonna be anything super great. *59:39* And I couldn't deal with four I'm sorry. *59:48* So I'm sorry I'm counting you already, sticker star. *59:52* I'm I could I couldn't deal with *59:55* four mediocre uh paper Mario games in a row. *59:57* So I'm glad that this one has kind of buoyed us here at the end and and surprised us in ways that maybe we were not expecting. *01:00:02* Um and also thanks for playing through it with us, Ricky, and coming on the show. *01:00:10* I hope that you had fun both returning to it in the year 2021 and coming on here to talk about it with us. *01:00:14* Yeah, I've been meaning to play it for a while, so it was a good excuse and a fun excuse. *01:00:22* That's what a lot of people have been telling us when they've come on. *01:00:27* Um *01:00:30* Really? *01:00:31* Even the people that had I guess you guys didn't do origami king with a guest. *01:00:32* Uh yeah, we didn't do origami king, but Tomas came on for uh color splash and he kind of told us this. *01:00:35* He's so brave. *01:00:41* He'd been meaning to replay it? *01:00:42* Uh he didn't. *01:00:44* Or just play it the first time. *01:00:45* Yeah, he likes he likes Wii U stuff. *01:00:46* He paid that that man played paid sixty dollars for that video game as well. *01:00:48* He bought it digitally on Wii U. *01:00:51* He paid full price *01:00:53* I would have watched a playthrough if I couldn't have found a copy. *01:00:56* Yeah, loved it. *01:01:01* It's great. *01:01:02* Just like I do when I do reviews. *01:01:03* No, that's a joke. *01:01:05* That's not true. *01:01:06* I will say out of out of all the guests, you got the shortest game. *01:01:07* You definitely have had the the most accessible, like quickest to beat uh title out of all of 'em so far in our first season. *01:01:13* Um, Ricky, if people want to keep up with you moving forward, where can they find you at on the internet? *01:01:20* Uh easiest place is just on *01:01:27* Uh Twitter at Ricky Freck. *01:01:29* R-I-C-K-Y-F-R-E-C-H. *01:01:31* I was gonna say they could also follow your work at all the different places, but though *01:01:34* You probably have a better chance of just finding your work popping up through Google SEO searches or whatever than uh That's the truth. *01:01:39* Than uh uh just going to find it manually some of these websites. *01:01:47* That's that's the truth. *01:01:50* The life of a full-time freelancer. *01:01:51* Oh, it's the I I'm not a freelancer and I can tell you that's my life as well. *01:01:53* So it's the life of nearly anybody involved with this industry nowadays, it feels like. *01:01:57* So *01:02:03* Uh yeah, be sure to follow Ricky over on Twitter. *01:02:03* Um if you want to follow Max and myself and keep up with I mean anything we've got going on or uh follow along with when we do talk about the show. *01:02:06* I as we're recording this *01:02:14* Its just on I have not even tweeted about the last episode yet. *01:02:16* I know, you need to get the episode. *01:02:20* Good job, Oligan. *01:02:21* I need to do that *01:02:22* Uh follow my Twitter where I don't plug the podcast that I co-host. *01:02:23* The lab the only thing you did was retweet my *01:02:29* Mm or Gami King turned one twenty. *01:02:32* Max, it's been a it's been a busy last week, sir, between trying to get prepared for this and then like three other embargoes. *01:02:34* One embargo I totally missed and have not invited It's just uh been I *01:02:41* My brain's been on fire. *01:02:46* I'm ready to take a nap. *01:02:47* Um anyway, you can follow me on Twitter. *01:02:49* I am at Moreman12. *01:02:51* You can follow Max on Twitter. *01:02:53* He is at Max Roberts143. *01:02:54* Other than that, we will be back next time with our uh sixth and final episode of the season, which will be for Super, or not Super Paper Mario, Paper Mario Sticker Star *01:02:57* On the Nintendo 3DS, our Nintendo 3DS Majora's Mask Special Edition XL handheld consoles are charged and ready to go. *01:03:07* Uh I charged mine up last night, Max, so *01:03:18* Uh as soon as we're done recording this, we will I mean Max has already started it, I think. *01:03:21* I will probably be right behind him here pretty soon uh starting it up and uh *01:03:25* Yeah, and next episode as well, just to give you a heads up, we will not have a guest on that one. *01:03:30* So it'll just be Max and myself, and we will do a breakdown of sticker star and then probably *01:03:34* Maybe have like a larger discussion at the end about all of these games and a larger conversation about the series as a whole and where it could go in the future and all that good stuff. *01:03:41* Kind of wrap up this season. *01:03:50* as a whole. *01:03:52* So that's what you can expect in episode number six. *01:03:53* But as for episode five, again, thank you for listening. *01:03:56* And we will see you back here again next time. *01:03:59* Bye-bye. *01:04:02* Adios. *01:04:03*