# Chapter Select, [[S1E6 - Paper Mario - Sticker Star]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series of games exploring their evolution, design, and legacy. *00:00* For this season one finale, we are wrapping up our coverage on the Paper Mario series, uh, wrapping it all up with *00:10* Paper Mario Sticker Star for the Nintendo 3DS. *00:20* I am one of your hosts, Max Roberts, and I am joined by my good friend, forever co-host, Logan Moore. *00:24* Hello. *00:34* Hello. *00:35* We reached the end of the Paper Mario. *00:36* I'm good because we're finally recording this episode. *00:38* And it feels good to do. *00:41* We mentioned that I we mentioned this at the end of the last episode, but it's not that we're We mentioned it for the last couple of episodes. *00:43* Yeah, we're not it's not that we're glad to be done with this uh season because we hate it or whatever, it's because it's literally been a thing ruminating in *00:48* behind the scenes for fourteen to sixteen months. *00:57* So getting one full season completed. *01:00* Yeah. *01:03* Getting one full season done feels nice. *01:04* Yeah, it feels really, really good. *01:07* Cause also that means I can start playing season two's games, which I'm very excited and you know. *01:10* Yeah. *01:17* Um *01:17* We'll we'll announce that later, but for now, let's talk about Paper Mario. *01:18* PyroR Sticker Star is developed by intelligent systems *01:22* And Van Pool, um, which is kind of a they helped make the game alongside them with the Nintendo. *01:26* Is this the first time that's happened? *01:34* I looked it up, they uh I don't know if it was specifically Van Pool, but I believe there was some help on Color Splash as well. *01:36* Okay *01:43* But the reason I mention this is there's some van pool staff that was as part of the credits. *01:44* And also in my research *01:50* They're the company behind like Tingle's Ruby Adventure or whatever, that DS game that came out where you played as Tingle. *01:53* Oh yeah. *01:58* So they're the people behind that. *01:59* But Vampel specifically is credited with the um *02:01* Helping with the direction and the script in Paper Mario Sticker Star. *02:05* So I thought it was worthy of mentioning them for better or for worse. *02:09* And we'll we'll get into that. *02:13* It came out for the Nintendo 3DS. *02:14* Technically also the 2DS, the new 3DS, the new 3DS XL, and so on and so forth. *02:17* It came out November 11th, 2012 in North America and December 6th, 2012 in Japan. *02:22* And here's where I get a try my hand of Japanese. *02:29* Come on, you gotta be good at these by this point. *02:33* You would think. *02:36* Uh the game directors *02:37* Nahiko Oyama and Taro Kudo. *02:40* So Nahiko is from Intelligent Systems and Taro was from Van Pool. *02:44* Producers Kensuke Tanabe, Toshiyuki Nakamura. *02:49* Who apparently is like the manager of the paper Mario Series as a whole now. *02:53* And then uh Shinya Takahashi *02:58* And for music, normally we list all of the composers. *03:01* But there are 11 composers for this game. *03:04* If you want, I'll give it a shot, but I thought just saying there's a lot of things. *03:09* I don't know if we need to read all eleven of them, especially because uh this game's soundtrack not great. *03:12* This is my least favorite soundtrack for any of them to jump ahead to that talk. *03:17* Oh my goodness. *03:22* Oh, we'll have some things to talk about there, I guess. *03:23* Um, yeah, it's a lot of people. *03:26* There's a link in the show notes if you would like to see a list of all the composers, but a lot of people worked on the sound and the music in this game. *03:28* It sits with a 75 out of 100 on Metacritic. *03:34* Yeah, it's the only portable *03:38* Paper Mario game. *03:42* And I I say that obviously the Switch is portable, but really that's a home console full-fledged Paper Mario experience. *03:43* This is the first the only true portable *03:49* Paper Mario game. *03:53* I thought before we talked about our experiences with the game and histories and then, you know, critiquing the game itself. *03:54* I think we need to address the *04:01* Miyamoto sized elephant in the room. *04:03* Which is in in my research for all this stumbled across the *04:06* Frankly infamous I Wata Ask uh that taught that goes through sticker star and kind of breaks down what happened with this game's development and Miyamoto's *04:12* personal influence on the design of this game and essentially the future of Paper Mario. *04:22* Um we'll talk specifics from this I wanna ask like throughout our discussion, but like overall, what did you think of this interview? *04:27* I've like like jokingly for years, whenever like Miyamoto's brought up, and like you can attest to this, but like within our friend group, someone was like, Oh yeah, that guy's a hack. *04:37* He's terrible. *04:46* Yeah. *04:47* Fool man. *04:48* I don't think he's clearly not a hack, but uh this conversation set shed some light on him where I was like, Miyamoto, what are you what are you doing? *04:49* What are you thinking about over there? *04:58* Because yeah, his influence on this game and the future of Paper Mario as a whole, like we we it it it's funny because that we're ending on this when you and I talked about this uh before we started the podcast. *04:59* Uh, because this is kind of where the series turns from those first three. *05:12* Obviously Super Paper Mario is totally different from the first two, but it was *05:15* It it's like a stopgap. *05:20* Everything in the series moving forward has kind of worked off of the base of Sticker Star in some some way, shape, or form, it seems like. *05:21* And we've w always wondered why they did that. *05:30* And Miyamoto seems to be the reason why they did that. *05:33* And uh the reasons why he wants certain things to be the way that they are with Paper Mario, I don't really understand. *05:37* But you know uh *05:46* when video game development Jesus tells you something over at Nintendo, all the people are gonna listen to what you have to say because you are Shigeru Miyamoto. *05:47* But yeah, that doesn't necessarily mean you're always right, I think. *05:57* Yeah, it it the this interview is super eye-opening. *06:02* Uh not just in regards to Paper Mario, but also a little bit of insight to Nintendo development. *06:07* And like this game took a long time to be made. *06:13* I forget specifically the year count, like when they started, but it was pre-2010. *06:18* They had ideas for this. *06:24* They said they had a uh like a build put together like when the before the 3DS ever launched, I think they said. *06:25* Like it was like a demo running on the hardware that you could test out. *06:32* Like it maybe *06:36* I don't know if they said like trade shows, but internally at least they had like a demo for it. *06:37* Yeah, and it I mean the team is composed of some people that were even working on the series back when it was Super Mario RPG on the Super Nintendo. *06:42* Like there's a long legacy here and sure they have ideas and different things. *06:50* Um yeah, I'm pulling up the quote now. *06:54* It's at E three two thousand ten, before the release of the three DS, they had images. *06:57* End of two thousand nine, it looks like in this article. *07:02* Like this *07:04* They had this idea for a while and they were working on other projects, but it just it's interesting to see Well they had a idea. *07:05* They had a paper Mario on 3DS idea, it seems like. *07:11* Yeah *07:15* Well, it's interesting to see how long it takes to be conceptualized and then influence from higher ups and it's overall an interesting interview, even if the *07:16* the light that it sheds is not a flattering one, uh particularly on the series as a whole. *07:25* But I wanted to address it up front so you no one thought we were wondered why we were just started mentioning *07:31* these Miyamoto quotes or references and stories and stuff out of the blue. *07:37* But before we talk about the game itself, like what *07:41* For the last time with Paper Mario, what what is our experience with this game? *07:46* Did you y play this when it came out? *07:50* Did you dabble at all? *07:52* No. *07:53* I think so. *07:54* I think we've mentioned it. *07:55* I know I feel like I've probably mentioned it. *07:56* Uh in the season already, but this is the one where my interest in the series started to wane pretty much entirely because it came out and I was really excited for it because, you know *07:58* The idea of a Paper Mario game on a handheld sounds like just kind of a win-win situation. *08:08* And then it came out and everybody's like, no no no no. *08:13* This is not good. *08:15* This is the worst one they've made. *08:16* Guess I will skip it and then from there color splash, same thing, origami king, kinda same thing. *08:21* Um So no, I did not play this one, in fact this was *08:27* This was the one that just be based on like reviews and word of mouth, I was like, oh, I guess I don't need to actively try to go out of the way my way to play Paper Mario games any longer. *08:31* Mm-hmm. *08:41* I dabbled. *08:43* I think I borrowed this one and I maybe played World One a few levels. *08:45* I wasn't digging the level structure at the time, which *08:50* nowadays I actually kind of appreciated it, but uh definitely at the time I was not appreciative. *08:56* But I was so excited for this game when it was coming out 'cause I had always thought Paper Mario would be a good fit on Portable, especially *09:02* in the DS era when I think there was theoretically enough power and definitely the the three DS era. *09:09* But I was gonna say the p well especially the three DS too, even with like the three D technology and how *09:16* There there's always been this kind of layering and depth to the Paper Mario world specifically. *09:21* Like you could really see how that could uh adapt well to the 3D technology on the 3DS and how that would potentially look cool and *09:26* Um did you play with 3D on very much out of curiosity? *09:34* Most of time, yeah. *09:39* Did you really? *09:41* I didn't Yeah, slider up the whole time. *09:42* I mean there were some times I I pumped it down, but I didn't yeah, I I've uh my I'd say the first year or two the 3DS was out, I did try to largely play in 3D *09:44* At some point though I was just like, nah, it's it it's it's done. *09:57* It's over. *10:01* Uh the honeymoon phase is over. *10:01* Just let me play the games in their normal 2D state. *10:03* It was just too straining on my eyes, I I found. *10:06* So I well uh we both have the new 3D SXL Majora's mask condition because we're we're good people. *10:10* And with the eye tracking, I think it makes it a lot more um *10:17* Easy to use. *10:23* It's more simple. *10:24* You don't have to like hold the 3DS in a specific spot and and really hone in on it. *10:25* You kind of have a bit more flexibility. *10:30* But yeah, we d I didn't play. *10:32* I so how did I even buy this? *10:35* I forget. *10:37* I think I bought it at a GameStop, like at just a local game store. *10:37* I had like a $15 credit and it was a $15 game. *10:41* So I lucked out there *10:44* And I think you hounded some dude on eBay or something. *10:46* I just made like an offer on eBay and somebody said, sure, sold. *10:50* Send it over to me. *10:54* Not for free, obviously, but I b I d I bought it a couple weeks ago. *10:56* Yeah. *11:00* Can we just talk about the three DS for a second and the fact that it felt nice to play on a three DS? *11:00* I like it, yeah. *11:06* It's surprising it surprisingly did feel nice going back to it, even though we had we've had like a Nintendo sort of handheld console now in the *11:06* Mainstream that we've it's not like we've stopped using Nintendo handheld like with the Switch or whatever, but but yeah, it did kind of feel nice going back to this, honestly. *11:15* I really I I really appreciated it's like *11:23* Simplicity of just like I can close it and put it in sleep mode and put it away, and it's not this big I don't have to get another controller or separate things like it is a fully integrated unit. *11:27* I re I *11:36* I was kinda happy to have to play the 3DS. *11:37* Yeah. *11:46* But no handheld is the PlayStation Vita, to be fair. *11:46* Nothing's quite like it. *11:51* Let's talk about Paper Mario Sticker Star and you know what? *11:53* Do you want to start with broad impressions? *11:57* Sure, yeah. *12:00* I like overall. *12:01* Yes. *12:03* It's color splash the on the go. *12:04* The smaller prequel, yeah. *12:07* Overall, I I will say this. *12:09* Overall *12:11* Like I was going into this w I mean we had widely heard that this was like the worst one. *12:12* So going into this I was like oh this is gonna be a travesty against everything. *12:17* This is gonna be so bad. *12:21* It was not it's not that bad. *12:23* Um it's really not. *12:25* Is it great? *12:27* No. *12:29* Is it even like pretty good? *12:30* Well, I I don't know. *12:33* Not really. *12:35* Like it's definitely on the lower tier. *12:36* of Paper Mario games. *12:38* But I also didn't hate it. *12:40* Like it was not anything that I ever felt was like, oh God, like can't wait to stop playing this game. *12:42* This is the worst thing I've ever experienced. *12:49* It was *12:51* It was above my expectations, but my expectations were probably too low, I should say. *12:52* I actually enjoyed this game. *12:59* More than I thought. *13:02* Um, but and not for the reasons I thought. *13:04* We'll we'll dig into it here. *13:06* But I was surprised by this game. *13:08* But then there were some things I wasn't surprised by, like the narrative or um or the lack of one. *13:11* Yeah. *13:18* Or the breadth of the game. *13:18* Like how much there is actually to do. *13:20* It um *13:23* It was pleasant to play, enjoyable, lighthearted, a little obtuse. *13:25* You can really see how this is kind of the starting point for what Paper Mario has been over the past. *13:32* almost a decade. *13:39* You know, next year it'll be t a decade since its release, which is ridiculous. *13:40* Time means nothing. *13:45* Yeah. *13:47* So jeez. *13:47* Pretty much the last 10 years of Paper Mario have been defined by this, and it's clear. *13:49* It's so evident. *13:54* You can see it in Color Splash and Origami King, and I wouldn't be surprised if you can see it in whatever comes next. *13:55* It is it sure is a game. *14:03* And I wanted to kind of start with you you had brought it up when you asked about 3D. *14:06* We don't typically do this, but the visuals, let's just start there. *14:12* What'd you think? *14:15* I felt like it was it more closely resembled um Super Paper Mario in some ways. *14:16* Not uh like that game has like a weirder like weirder care weirder character designs and things like that. *14:24* Um and obviously this one is much more milked when it comes to the characters that they're pulling from the Nintendo world. *14:30* Um but I felt like it was like a unique it felt like they really tried to put that we sort of *14:38* Not art style necessarily, but that graphical style that it was maybe seen in the Wii, I I felt like those two were pretty similar and compatible. *14:45* Otherwise *14:52* I don't really recall anything notable from the game visually at any point that I can think of. *14:53* Um there are some like unique levels that pop up here and there, like the *15:00* Um, the sandstorm level is one that comes to mind when you have to like sweep up the uh sandstorm with the vacuum cleaner. *15:06* That was kind of *15:13* That was kind of cool. *15:14* And then really nothing else I can think of. *15:15* Uh honestly, like vi big visual spectacle moments. *15:18* Um it was satisfactory, I guess I would say. *15:24* Nothing really stood out about it in the larger series. *15:28* It reminded me a lot of 64 in the way of *15:31* The buildings and environmental structures like have 3D qualities and elements to them. *15:38* Yeah. *15:43* But the characters are all flat. *15:44* And that's ex that's like really easy *15:46* exasperated's not the right word, like exaggerated with the three D effect on, which I thought actually really lent itself well to the Paper Mario design aesthetic of flat characters in a 3D space made of *15:49* Flat stuff. *16:03* Yeah. *16:04* I thought it really kind of delivered that promise that we see in Thousand Year Door and even Super Paper Mario. *16:05* I mean, really *16:13* Super Paper Mario plays with it by rotating the world and putting it in 3D space, but this is the actual 3D depth of it and *16:15* I c you know, part of me imagines like, what if they had stuck with the Super Paper Mario thing and then added that 3DS into it? *16:24* Like they could have really done some cool visual *16:31* tweaks and tricks there, but as far as what we actually have, I I thought it was really it reminded me of Paper Mario in a way that *16:34* Uh you know, I d I guess colors like this really felt like the older Paper Mario games is really what I'm trying to say. *16:44* And visually it also kind of reminded me of Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon, another 3DS game. *16:53* Like it had some of the similar *16:59* I guess design choices and stuff, not aesthetically, but just the world and graphics and stuff. *17:01* The 3DS has a nice look to it. *17:07* I actually really *17:09* uh enjoyed the way this looked. *17:11* What about the things though? *17:13* Like this is the first time Paper Mario brought real world objects into this cartoon paper world. *17:15* Did you feel like they fit? *17:23* Yeah, I mean, yeah, this was obviously something that we saw in Color Splash, and we just clearly didn't know that it was introduced here. *17:25* I still like the things. *17:33* Okay, I'm double-edged on the things. *17:36* My problem with the things is I I think they're I think they're a fun way to use like special abilities and special attacks to deal a little bit more damage to bosses and stuff like that. *17:38* The problem is lies deeper within the like how the game is structured, especially when it comes to the gameplay, is I didn't use half of them *17:49* throughout the game because I was always afraid that I was gonna use them and then I would stumble across a boss or an enemy that's like, oh no, you need this very one specific item right now. *17:59* We'll talk about that. *18:10* And it w yeah, I I'm sure we'll get into a deeper discussion on that. *18:12* But yeah, that was always my thing, is like I never felt encouraged to use them. *18:15* I always felt like I had to sit on them because I didn't want to use them at the wrong *18:20* moment and then, you know, have to go buy them all over aga I mean, yeah, that's that's more of a gameplay problem rather than just with the things. *18:26* Uh the things themselves I I think are *18:34* A fun idea for the most part. *18:36* And I I I think they work pretty well. *18:38* Some of 'em they definitely don't look as real as they do in Color Splash, which I think is actually a benefit here. *18:41* Um the more realistic they are, the more it pulls me out of Paper Mario. *18:48* Um it's not like Yoshi's Woolly World or Epic Yarn or whatever that game. *18:53* is called where they're using real world objects to construct the papercraft world. *18:58* It's just one is a cartoon paper world and then there's real world objects. *19:03* And the more realistic it gets, the less it pulls me in. *19:07* So this *19:10* was close enough to cartoony that it seemed to work out okay. *19:11* But overall, I just I really like the way this game looks and I think the 3D effect is used fairly well. *19:15* Nothing too crazy. *19:21* It was it was a good game. *19:23* But let's let's use the things and overall let's just let's dive into the gameplay here. *19:25* Paper Mario Sticker Star. *19:32* Turn-based combat using stickers, one off essentially attacks to do that, do your attacks. *19:35* Yes. *19:44* No experience. *19:44* Yeah, coins. *19:46* Um to buy more stickers, to buy more things. *19:47* Find more s yeah. *19:51* To buy more turns to attack. *19:53* Yeah, I want I want you to go first specifically in this dialogue, but what did you think of the gameplay *19:56* And overall, you know, game design of Sticker Star. *20:04* I mean, uh so clearly there's a lot of similarities between this and *20:08* Color splash. *20:13* So if you've already listened to our episode on Color Splash, my feelings in a large sense are pretty similar here. *20:14* Um my biggest issue is with the combat is pretty much the thing I just mentioned a moment ago. *20:20* Like the game *20:26* makes you the game tries to create puzzles in battles in certain instances, but to complete those puzzles you need certain items. *20:28* But you never know when you're gonna need the items. *20:38* And so uh again, it just comes down to this situation where you have to *20:41* uh go into a fight and then you are find out you don't even have the proper items in order to complete the fight, but the item you need is something you got seven worlds ago that's just randomly was something you picked up, you're like, Well why would *20:48* Like it's not even it where it makes sense to where like oh I picked up this item. *21:02* I I will immediately need it within the next level or so. *21:07* Like they call back to these things like like one point later on with the ghost section in particular, mm-hmm, you fight that boss there. *21:11* And all of a sudden you find out you need a fan. *21:19* And it's like, well, the fan is on like level two of the game. *21:21* Why am I on World Four Four? *21:25* And I all of a sudden need a fan to blow out some candles in order to defeat this ghost. *21:28* This seems really dumb. *21:32* Uh so I got in a fight and I was like, Well I guess I can't beat this. *21:34* Um and again maybe there are other ways to blow out the candles if you're screaming at this podcast right now and you're like, Oh you could you could have done this, this or this. *21:38* I was like, okay. *21:45* Like *21:47* I I j I just thought you needed the fan, so I had to go get the fan and then blow out the candles, and then that was how I killed it. *21:47* So that stuff really *21:54* annoys me. *21:57* Um and yeah, I just don't I don't like the I *21:59* Don't like that the stickers are single use. *22:05* Like that bothers me. *22:07* I get it, and there are plenty of stickers around the world. *22:08* I never felt like I was running out, so it's not that that's necessarily a problem. *22:11* It more just creates this *22:15* artificial scarcity at times throughout the game. *22:18* Um I will say though I think this is *22:22* Done better than Color Splash was. *22:26* It absolutely is. *22:31* Because the coins at least make a bit more sense with how they fold back into the gameplay. *22:32* and how they fold into you getting more turns or being able to buy things and and I definitely feel like I was getting more stickers all around the world and the r the environment. *22:38* Uh compared to cards just randomly dropping in Color Splash. *22:48* So as a whole, I do think this is better than Color Splash considering both of them have very similar combat mechanics and general gameplay mechanics *22:51* But overall I still don't love it. *23:01* Yeah. *23:04* I they were so close *23:06* Their first try was so close to n figuring out this thing situation in particular because *23:10* You have an album where all your stickers go, and that's like your your attack folder. *23:18* And then there's a scraps folder, which is used solely for solving environmental puzzles, like moving pieces of the world around to solve puzzles. *23:22* And then there's a things part of the album, and all of the real-world objects go in there. *23:30* But they're not stickers. *23:35* To turn them into stickers, you gotta go to some sticker guy in town, throw them, and then they take up space in the album. *23:36* And that was one thing Color Splash did at least do better. *23:44* Like you can make it a card wherever, like as soon as you squeezed it on the spot into a card. *23:49* Yeah. *23:55* Yeah, but then it automatically takes a part of your deck. *23:56* And you know, the last ten-15 cards of your deck in Color Splash were thing cards. *24:00* just taking up space, so you never had a full deck. *24:05* But in Sticker Star, they never took up your album until you turned them into a sticker. *24:07* But you couldn't y turn it into a sticker whenever you wanted to. *24:11* And it would just this *24:14* You would get in a a scenario like you with the the ghost boss, and y say you had the fan thing, but y you don't know what card you need to turn in or thing you need to turn into a sticker, so you never *24:16* No, before you go into a level and then you get into the level and you find out you need it, and it's like, well now I gotta quit, go to town, walk over to this guy. *24:28* Clear out stickers if I don't have enough room and make room for this giant sticker that takes up half a page and then go do the thing. *24:39* If you could have turned them into stickers on Q, like whenever you wanted, or if they just stayed in the things section. *24:49* Yes. *24:57* I feel like they really would have nailed this. *24:58* Because they're where *25:00* There are so many things literally in this game. *25:01* Yeah. *25:06* And you only need maybe ten. *25:07* I wish you also it was also better explained what they did. *25:11* Because there were times where I I would use them and I'm like, okay. *25:16* I guess this uh what was one I cause I used one specifically on the final boss and it didn't do any damage and I was like oh *25:20* Lovely. *25:27* I'm glad that I packed this up and brought this with me to the final fight and to for it to do a whole lot of nothing. *25:28* Um like for instance, I know the boom box was like a *25:33* It gave you extra attack power rather than uh dealing with the other. *25:37* I didn't find that out till late. *25:42* Yeah, so *25:43* But they don't really tell you that. *25:46* It's just like, oh, use this in battle and something'll happen. *25:48* And it's like, okay, here goes nothing, I guess. *25:51* And it's a uh that's that adventure game mentality of like just try it and see if you know the guy will take this to solve the puzzle. *25:55* But the problem is is *26:04* Once you use it, it's gone, whether it was the right thing or not, or whether it was gonna do damage or not. *26:06* Yeah, if you screw up if you screw up, you're out a hundred coins if you need to go buy it again or whatever. *26:10* Yeah, and so *26:16* I appreciate the idea of like let's try this out, but also I felt punished if I guessed wrong. *26:19* And that never is a good feeling, because then you have to go pay to get the thing back. *26:26* And that feels bad because, you know, money is an actual resource in this game that felt I didn't feel like I was just drowning in money like I was in origami cane or anything. *26:31* Like I felt like I kept a pretty decent control of my my cash flow here. *26:44* I'd say I'd say I had about over 500 coins at any given moment, personally. *26:49* I'd get down to 300 or so. *26:54* And you know, uh an expensive thing could cost that much. *26:56* And so I kind of was in that that ballpark at in at certain points. *26:59* It just *27:05* They were so close and then they clearly went the wrong direction with s with the color splash of having it constantly take up space in the deck. *27:06* but also having the same problem of not explaining what it does. *27:14* Like they took a step back instead of going forward. *27:17* And that was a big bummer to kind of see. *27:19* So can we maybe talk about Mimoto here? *27:21* Is this a point where you want to talk about *27:25* some of his influence that he had on certain sections of this game because Yeah, it sounds like he greatly kinda influenced this direction they went because originally they *27:28* In this Awada Ask that we talked about before, they mentioned that the ni original idea for the game was just another RPG in the style of like Thousand Year Door *27:40* And they showed Miyamoto and he's like, Oh, this is boring. *27:50* It's just that game again. *27:52* They're like, what? *27:53* Like he legitimately called the game boring and said it was just like a retread and that they needed to do something else with it. *27:55* Um Yeah, it was apparently like a port of the GameCube version, which f is what I would want. *28:04* Yeah, I don't know if it was a a port, I think that he just meant it was like *28:12* that game, whatever they can do. *28:16* Very similar to the Thousand Year Door. *28:18* Yeah. *28:20* So they're like, oh hey, here's this. *28:21* And he's like, no, scrap all the RPG stuff. *28:22* And they're like, what? *28:25* Um or did he specifically say that? *28:27* He basically kind of like encouraged it, I think. *28:30* The quote in the interview was along the lines of quote *28:34* I believe this is Iwata. *28:38* Uh quote, I had heard that first Miyamoto-san said that something like an RPG would be fine, so f so for a while I thought that something like the previous one would be fine, and quote. *28:40* Um *28:51* Oh, I guess that wasn't Iwata. *28:52* But anyway, the so they really hadn't reinvented the Paper Mario wheel at the point. *28:54* And then he came in and said, well, this is just a *28:59* basically the old one, you know, do something new. *29:01* And so that's when they came up with the idea for stickers. *29:04* And stickers originally were only gonna be used to solve puzzles on the map. *29:08* Yeah. *29:13* And then they're like, well, we'll just use stickers everywhere, including battle. *29:13* So like that one comic completely shifted this game from a traditional RPG into *29:17* sticker mayhem. *29:24* Yeah, and I think they also mentioned that they had partners at one point, and then those got I mean there is a p singular partner in this game, but it *29:26* He or she or who I think it's a girl. *29:36* Doesn't do anything really until the very, very end, I guess. *29:39* Um *29:43* But yeah, they said they had partners as well and he's like, aye throw that out of there. *29:45* Mm-hmm *29:51* Like all these things that people have been scrambling to get back in the series for the longest time, it's funny to just see Miyamoto be like, nah no, this is this is old. *29:52* Get this outta here *30:01* New ideas, people, new ideas. *30:02* Which I mean on one hand I will say like, okay, yeah, new ideas are good and they can push things forward and that's fine and dandy, but when you're throwing out *30:05* Like everything that people even liked about the old ones in the first place, like that's kind of where you're getting me. *30:15* Like, why are you making a sequel to those games when people *30:22* Liked those games and you're like okay, we'll make a sequel that doesn't do any of the things you liked in those. *30:28* We'll we'll do new stuff. *30:33* Hmm *30:36* Very strange. *30:37* Yeah, it does it didn't it's frustrating. *30:40* It's really frustrating to read, especially considering the last *30:42* ten years. *30:46* It I will say this about the combat itself, the overall stickers and you can have up to three you know attacks per turn. *30:48* This was my favorite combat system since Thousand Year Door. *30:57* I think it was the most. *31:02* I think it's the most strategic in that traditional way. *31:03* And *31:09* I really felt in control. *31:10* And the fact that I didn't have to fight unless I was forced to, uh, made it a bit more digestible. *31:13* I definitely like it more. *31:20* than Color Splash because this game communicates to you damage, consistency, your enemies have health bars. *31:22* You definitely have more strategic control than you do in something like. *31:29* Color splash or origami king. *31:34* Like this felt the closest to those old games. *31:36* Yeah, I I I think I agree with you, but at the same time that's like such a low barred clear for me *31:39* 'Cause I just don't think highly of Color Splasher or Agami King when it comes to their uh their combat systems. *31:47* So I I think it's just more a testament to how far it's gone astray. *31:54* Even this game, which is clearly *31:58* different still has a piece of it and I actually really enjoyed it. *32:01* Like when I got in a fight or had to do a fight, I wasn't *32:05* frustrated in the way of uh I can't believe they're making me do this. *32:09* Did you still try to avoid fights though? *32:13* I actively tried to avoid fights. *32:15* Yeah on the world oh yeah on the world map it there's no reason to I tried to fight. *32:17* It's hard to avoid it as much as humanly possible. *32:22* It's which is un kind of disappointing because if there was an incentive to fight, I think I would have done a lot more of it. *32:25* But you know coins. *32:33* Like ten of them. *32:35* But I don't need 'em. *32:36* I got I got a bunch of 'em. *32:37* And you get a ton of coins at the end of every level. *32:39* So Yeah, if not for that then *32:41* They definitely don't give you a whole lot of coins after beating the actual uh fights. *32:44* If they if they didn't give you more at the end of each *32:50* world then uh you would have maybe been scraping the bottom of your coin purse a couple more times there I would say. *32:53* Mm-hmm. *33:00* And I I really enjoyed stickers just being everywhere in the world because that definitely made me feel in control of what attacks I was gonna have and not have. *33:01* Like I could just toss a a sticker I don't want and replace it with something better. *33:09* in the world. *33:13* So I d almost even more so than Color Splash. *33:14* This was kind of really deck building. *33:18* in the you know, in a game sense of I want these jump attacks and these hammers and I'll get rid of this card for a better you know it really *33:21* It was quite enjoyable. *33:29* I I liked it. *33:31* I just wish I had a reason to do it more often and Can we talk about the boss fights while we're on gameplay? *33:32* Largely largely pretty good. *33:42* Final boss is abysmal. *33:46* Like extremely terrible. *33:48* It's just a punching bag of HP. *33:51* That you can't do half of your attacks on. *33:54* So that's fun. *33:58* I mean, let's say it's a Bowser. *33:59* Bowser's a final fight. *34:00* Um *34:02* Guess what? *34:03* His horns do damage. *34:04* If you have any jump except iron boots, it doesn't work. *34:06* You can't. *34:10* There's just no way to do it. *34:10* And it's always been like it's always been like that from the first game. *34:11* So you can change Oh wait, no, I'm sorry. *34:16* You are correct, but in those games you have the option to equip a badge that prevents you from spike damage. *34:21* So I I do apologize. *34:27* Yes. *34:28* Like you have a way to counter it. *34:29* um through choice. *34:30* But this game, nothing. *34:32* And it doesn't warn like this is the game this is the biggest problem of the game as a whole to me, is it doesn't provide any guidance to you. *34:35* you or any sort of heads up or any sort of like like we've talked about how some of the other games hold your hand a little bit too much. *34:43* This game very much does not hold your hand in the slightest. *34:53* Yeah. *34:56* Which I kind of appreciated since this was the sixth Paper Mario game we were playing in a row. *34:57* It's like, okay. *35:01* I know what I'm doing here. *35:02* Let's just get the show on the road. *35:04* So in that sense, I did I did like that it kind of fast-tracked you into the thick of things. *35:06* On the other hand, yeah, it doesn't ever give you any sort of idea when you might need a certain thing in a fight or *35:12* Yeah, like with Bowser, maybe some sort of heads up in advance, like, hey, you're gonna need to overload seventy-five percent of your inventory with hammers, or else this fight's gonna be really, really hard. *35:19* By the way, he has three hundred health and it regenerates constantly. *35:30* And then he has five hundred health at the end. *35:34* Literally his health actually doesn't mean anything until the final phase, because it regenerates every time *35:38* And but the the penultimate phase, you don't even knock him to zero, you just knock him off the the platform. *35:44* Yes. *35:50* And you even then you need a specific item there. *35:51* Like I told you that. *35:53* You need the tail *35:55* To get him off. *35:57* No, the game did give it to you after the game. *35:58* It did give it to me, but like why why one specific *36:00* sticker in the whole game do I need for that one moment. *36:05* And it's a rare sticker too. *36:09* It's not something you see all that offering or can even really I can't even think of a shop that you had that had it for sale. *36:10* There is a shop. *36:16* I assume there would be. *36:17* But get this. *36:18* Guess what? *36:19* Is it the volcano one? *36:19* No, it is the shop where you can buy the big door. *36:21* Um the door sticker. *36:26* There's an R button that opens a new page in the shop that I didn't know about, and you can buy them there. *36:28* This doesn't just happen in the Bowser fight, though, but the first fight, which *36:34* Honestly, I'm forgetting what the first boss even was. *36:41* Do you remember like the type of enemy? *36:45* Did I write it down? *36:47* It was just a goomba. *36:48* It was a bunch of Goombas. *36:50* It was a big yeah, that's right. *36:51* Okay. *36:53* So that Goomba has 300 health or something like that, and I took him all the way down, like just *36:54* Fought him and used a ton of stickers. *37:03* And at the end of the fight, Kirsty's like, Great job. *37:05* There was probably a better sticker you could have used for that instead of all your stickers. *37:09* And I was like, What? *37:13* Like the game just *37:14* It's back to that guess and go game of using things. *37:15* And so the second boss is the um the pokey spiky the pokey, thank you. *37:18* And *37:26* The the boss arena is like a dugout. *37:27* Yeah, and you heard baseball bat. *37:30* It's a baseball diamond. *37:32* Yeah. *37:33* And you use the baseball bat thing. *37:34* At least that was like hinted at. *37:36* Yes. *37:37* And it's so really every boss had some sort of thing weakness, but it necess wasn't necessarily as obvious as the pokey. *37:38* The blooper the blooper, like clearly you need to use something there. *37:45* The sponge is kind of *37:49* An odd one though for it's such a guessy guess and go trial and error kind of game *37:50* That can be really hard if you can't figure it out or you don't look up an answer where you have to use a ton of stickers and hope you have enough mushrooms to like just withstand these *38:00* HP, you know, they're not bullet sponges, but these like damage soaking bosses. *38:10* And it just isn't fun in that regard unless you have the special item that can *38:16* Hit them. *38:23* And you may or may not have used it before, like we were talking about. *38:24* And so that just it was so frustrating to get to a point. *38:26* I mean, by the end of the game, I was looking up before I'd go to a boss level. *38:31* I'd be like, do I need a thing for this? *38:34* Like what do I need? *38:35* Yeah, yeah. *38:36* I was like I I mean I should make it very clear and you did as well, I'm I'm sure, but like I followed a walkthrough for this whole game. *38:37* So every time I got to a boss fight or something, I was like, all right, what do I actually need in this? *38:43* Um like I knew beforehand with the blooper that I was gonna need to sponge. *38:48* I was like, okay, let me let's go get this freaking sponge. *38:53* Um *38:56* Same for like the ice bowser. *38:57* I was like, I'm gonna need to load up on some fire attacks here. *38:59* So like I kind of cheated in that regard, but I'm glad I did because it would have just been a headache. *39:02* It would have really just been an annoyance *39:07* for me to lose the fight and then have to go restart. *39:10* It's not as simple as something. *39:13* Yeah, it's not something where it feels rewarding. *39:14* It's not like a Dark Souls boss where it's like, oh I got my *39:16* face caved in, but I've learned something in the process and now I will go back in and try to figure out their routines and try to get the best of them. *39:19* It's just like, oh you came into this fight ill equipped. *39:28* Sorry, you're probably gonna lose like *39:31* I was I was gonna compare it to like Pokemon. *39:34* Like it's not always an obvious type difference of, you know. *39:36* I mean the snow boss, yes, weak to fire or heat. *39:40* That makes perfect sense. *39:45* But the pokey or the blooper or the Goomba, none of that is apparent or obvious. *39:46* Um *39:55* there there's no like language of like what is effective against other things. *39:56* Even in the Bowser fight, the second phase has a thwomp in front. *40:02* The w only way to get rid of it *40:07* is to use one of those red spring hammers, which by the way I don't like, so I never had 'em around. *40:10* And just like you with the tail, the game gave me one. *40:16* So the only way to knock him over is to hit him with that and then to use a pair of scissors to cut him up. *40:19* And that's only communicated by a no scissors icon on his back. *40:26* which you only see when you knock him over. *40:31* So it just there's no way like in an RPG, when you go to the final boss, you have an idea of what you want to go in there with. *40:33* Let's even Thousand Year Door. *40:42* Before you go fight the Shadow Queen, you're like *40:43* I need my jam and jellies, I need my ultra shrooms. *40:45* I know that I like this type of item and I want to go in with that or have these things to help replenish my BP because I or FP because I use these special attacks a lot. *40:48* Like you can prepare for a boss fight. *40:59* But in this game it is just hope you have the right stickers. *41:02* But I th I'm not sure about you. *41:05* I know you were close, but for the Bowser fight, I had to die. *41:07* I had *41:11* half of my album was jumps. *41:13* Regular or springs or whatever. *41:16* Same was same for me. *41:20* I ran out of stickers that I could actually use. *41:21* I loaded up on the flashy clone jumps and I was like, alright, baby, get ready to get bounced, Bowser. *41:23* And then it was like, Dwink! *41:28* I was like, oh my gosh, I can't even use them. *41:30* Yep. *41:32* It was just it really honestly a little demoralizing at certain parts of just like, really? *41:33* I have- I need this, so I gotta quit and go do that? *41:40* Come on. *41:45* It just that was that was definitely a very frustrating part. *41:46* The game the gameplay though is more than just fighting. *41:52* And honestly, fighting's pretty optional. *41:55* This is the first one to introduce a traditional Mario world map. *41:58* It does take the level structure of introduced in Super Paper Mario. *42:04* You know, there's individual levels and they kind of are all connected on this world map. *42:08* Um what did you think of that? *42:13* I mean it makes sense for a portable game. *42:17* It does, yeah. *42:19* I mean uh the one thing in that AWADA conversation they mentioned is that is that they wanted to make the game a little bit more bite-sized for handheld devices, and I so I think that *42:20* Uh I think that idea is fine and it works well. *42:30* I m this is a larger qu the c conversation we can have in a second, but I I I'm curious why they *42:33* And then decided to just keep that and uh it's just do the same thing on color splash. *42:40* Yeah. *42:47* Not that that the level format and color splash is like bad necessarily, but uh *42:48* That that's a whole separate conversation going from this game to Color Splash that we can have in a moment. *42:54* Um But yeah, I yeah, level level level level wise, I thought it worked fine. *42:59* It w it worked on 3DS and I did like that at the beginning of each level there was like a little bit visually of the previous level or place you were coming from to kind of connect each space together. *43:04* I I like that little touch. *43:16* The worlds in general were roughly about four to six levels long, except Wigglers, Wrigglers, W Woods. *43:18* Yeah, it was like eleven or twelve eleven. *43:29* Why? *43:34* I don't understand They were short, I will say. *43:37* They were short. *43:40* The annoying thing was you would find a part of his body and it would run away. *43:41* It's like, alright. *43:47* It's a little stupid four times. *43:48* If I can find your body part, just stick with me. *43:50* And then it would run away to another level, and then you'd have to go beat it up to convince it to come with you. *43:53* Kinda silly. *43:58* That was super repetitive, super frustrating, way too long. *43:59* The Wigglerwoods, all of it, far too long. *44:04* They needed to cut that in half. *44:08* Keep the worlds roughly the same length. *44:11* They could have they could have added a sixth world with the same like level count *44:13* And could have done more diverse things. *44:20* Like it just that that part of the game, especially smack dab in the middle, just felt so bloated. *44:23* Yeah, I agree. *44:28* And it has a lot of different things going on with it too. *44:29* Like *44:32* There's the wiggler like, oh no, I've been separated, and then it's also like, but the woods, they've been poisoned, and there's a poison boat *44:33* It's like there's like all these different like things happening. *44:41* It's like, what can we get in like what are we supposed to be doing here? *44:44* Is there a good do we need a poison boat? *44:47* Do we need to fix this wiggler? *44:48* Uh and and obviously they try to bring it all together and unite all those different things, but they don't they feel so disconnected in many regards. *44:51* Yeah. *44:59* It was *45:00* It was just a that part was really I was actually super frustrated with that part of the game. *45:02* Not a big fan of any of that. *45:07* C one I g at least uh one thing that I could really think of gameplay wise that I thought was overall disappointing *45:10* There are no real side quests, at least that I saw or noticed. *45:18* The only thing I found that was optional questy was sometimes when you would go into *45:23* the like sticker mode where you would zoom out and be able to attach stickers. *45:30* Sometimes Luigi would be there and you could pluck Luigi out of the scene. *45:35* But there was no purpose for it. *45:39* In the credits it told you how many Luigi's you found. *45:41* out of five. *45:45* So there's it's not even that common of a thing. *45:46* I guess there's one per world. *45:49* Um besides the final one with Bowser, which really isn't a world. *45:51* So just like it there's no side quest. *45:55* There's no *45:57* world building in that way. *45:59* Uh arguably the closest is the Wiggler stuff, but that ultimately is necessary to get through the world and really isn't optional in any capacity. *46:00* It just *46:09* It definitely made the game feel more shallow than any other entry in the series. *46:10* Yeah. *46:15* I agree with you. *46:16* I was just it was a bummer. *46:17* So *46:20* I'm looking at our list. *46:23* Let's talk about the story or lack thereof. *46:25* Oh, you mean the thing that there is nothing to talk about? *46:29* And even Miyamoto himself said, Get that story out of here. *46:32* I would like to quote, at least in the Iwata S, Miyamoto-san said from the start of the project, quote *46:37* It's fine without a story, so do we really need one? *46:44* End quote. *46:48* He also said, quote, as much as possible *46:49* complete it with only characters from the Super Mario world, end quote. *46:52* And that right there is the death of some Paper Mario RPGs. *46:56* Those two sentences killed *47:00* like the core of everything. *47:03* Gone is Bobbery or Flurry, um, even a wrestling kid Yoshi. *47:05* Say goodbye to Rock Hawk. *47:13* Say goodbye to uh sushi, you know, anyone. *47:15* The closest we're gonna get is origami king with Bobby. *47:20* Like *47:24* The death of charm is here. *47:25* The funny thing is if you read this a wadaxed, uh, he's like they're like, yeah, Mr. *47:28* Miyamoto has told us to like only use *47:32* uh Super Mario ki characters. *47:35* Uh and Wada's like, oh that must have been tough. *47:37* They're like, yeah, but we g it's kind of fun to work in s uh within certain restraints, like, you know *47:40* We had to really like pull together and think about which side characters we should use. *47:45* And so we had like a red toad and a blue toad and a yellow toad and a green toad *47:49* They just start talking about how they're like, oh we should use all these different colored toads then. *47:56* And then one of the developers I think said like, oh, by the end of the game, I was very tired of looking at toads. *48:01* This story apparently in the I Wanna Ask is kind of in direct response to Super Mario World's bigger dimensional twisty narrative. *48:09* Apparently there was a survey from Nintendo, and people did not respond in kind to the Super Mario World story like they did not care about it. *48:18* It doesn't mean you just shuck it out the door the window. *48:26* Like that's *48:29* So, I mean, let's say it. *48:31* The the the plot of this game is that a magic sticker star comes and they want to throw a festival for it to honor and and cr make wishes. *48:33* And Bowser tries to steal the wish-making star. *48:43* And then it blows up. *48:46* And he touches it and it splits into five parts, into five real stickers, and your partner, the only person that really talks throughout this whole game, appears. *48:51* Her name is Kirsty or Christy, I think I think it's Kirsty. *49:01* I think it's cursed. *49:05* And she is a very sassy crown shaped sticker, very shiny. *49:06* Humor wise, reminds me of Huey. *49:12* Like Huey is a logical thing. *49:15* But she doesn't even talk that much is the thing that I think is weird. *49:17* She's just kind of there. *49:21* And even if you ask her for help by hitting the L button *49:23* She really doesn't offer a lot of help. *49:26* She's no Goombella or Goombario. *49:28* Like, she's just like, eh, this is a volcano. *49:31* They're kinda hot. *49:35* She's just there. *49:36* Yeah. *49:37* The the funny thing I mentioned I'm spoilers for the very end of the game, but at the very end of the game she like dies or sacrifices herself and Mario gets to make any wish he wants in the whole known universe. *49:38* You know, he could wish for *49:51* world peace or he could wish for marriage to peach or something. *49:53* I don't know. *49:57* He wishes for the dumb partner to come back to life. *49:58* It's like, bro *50:01* She didn't even talk in this whole game and you're like, I'll use my one wish to bring my friend back. *50:02* It's like she wasn't even she wasn't even you didn't even have a relationship with this character. *50:08* She never talked *50:13* Never did anything of importance. *50:14* She was just a presence. *50:16* When you lose her in that one level where she gets stuck in the cobweb, that was pretty rough. *50:20* She had this very sassy I'm a lady vibe. *50:25* Which in its own way is kind of endearing and funny, like treat me like a royal lady. *50:29* And but yeah, this game is just there's nothing to sink your teeth into here. *50:35* There's it is super uh I'm sorry, it is paper Mario light in s the plot where Bowser steals the star rod to control all the wishes. *50:41* Bowser tries to steal the sticker star for the wishes. *50:53* Like it's s very similar, but *50:58* all of the charm and personality and real plot ripped out of it. *51:01* It's not like each sticker has a personality or wish to grant, or that other people, even the bosses who are souped up by these royal stickers *51:05* After you beat them, it explains how they got the royal sticker and it's all happenstance. *51:14* Like they had they had a wish and the sticker fell on their forehead and then they turned crazy. *51:18* And somehow Kamek is like the evil like person pulling the strings behind all of this, some to some degree. *51:26* Like *51:34* She's like everywhere in this game. *51:35* It's very weak, very it's it is by far the worst Paper Mario play. *51:38* There is, there really is *51:44* No plot. *51:46* The plot is just collect items that we told you to collect and then fight Bowser. *51:47* That's what she says at the end of the game. *51:52* She's like *51:54* I really kind of dragged you on this adventure, Mario. *51:55* I'm like, yeah, you really did. *51:57* There was no reason for me to really get these. *51:58* I guess except Peach was kidnapped again. *52:00* Yeah. *52:02* Yep. *52:04* It just it was so *52:04* You know, like not even individual levels have really rich stories. *52:07* Arguably the closest is the Boo Mansion, and that's only by a toad talking to you at the beginning and at the end. *52:12* Yeah. *52:18* It was it was pretty disappointing, honestly. *52:19* Not that I had expectations for it to be something like the older games, but it was disappointing in the way that there really wasn't anything to *52:23* At all. *52:32* They're nothing to play or d dig into at all, really. *52:32* I actually I mean, and this is *52:37* funny because I I actually thought the Super Paper Mario story, like I said, I thought it was pretty good in the last episode. *52:39* Like for what it was, it was it's again it's just a Mario story, but I felt like they *52:45* tried to do some interesting things within that plot. *52:50* And so for them to just be like, hmm, let's take a random poll. *52:52* Oh, people said they didn't really care about the story. *52:55* Well just check it out. *52:58* No more trying. *52:59* I I that's such a strange *53:01* That's such strange guidance from it in color splash in origami kingdom. *53:03* I would say it's strange guidance from Miyamoto, but then again, when you think about the games he's made, they totally are like devoid of story. *53:09* Like *53:16* Donkey Kong, Super Mario Bros. *53:17* even the Zelda games don't Zelda Zelda's probably the most narrative rich games that he has made, I would say. *53:19* Yeah, but really the ones he made though *53:26* Isn't that just the first one? *53:30* In the second one? *53:32* Uh yeah. *53:33* But even then has a plot. *53:34* Even then though, that's what I that's what I'm saying is of the ones he really had a big hand in, those would be the biggest *53:37* ones that have like monumental stories or any sort of narrative like there's more of a narrative push behind that than there is Super Mario Bros. *53:43* like *53:51* World 1-1 go stomp on a Noomba. *53:52* Like, there's really not a lot going on in the game. *53:55* So you kind of teased this one earlier, and apparently you don't have much to say, but the music. *53:58* I don't think it's great. *54:06* Eleven composers. *54:07* They needed uh twenty in order to be good, apparently. *54:08* Ooh *54:12* Uh I don't think it's terrible. *54:13* I just can't tell you a single song off of this. *54:15* Like there was an earworm in every single one of these games that I can think of. *54:17* And I can't think of one in this. *54:21* You are like I was with Super Paper Mario. *54:24* And there were quite a few little ditties in this game that I enjoyed quite a bit. *54:28* For all of my hate of Wiggler Forest. *54:33* I really like the theme in Wiggler Forest. *54:36* It was like this jazzy detective moody, you know, just kind of vibe. *54:39* really to the whole thing didn't really sync up with the the narrative of what was going on where this forest is rabbit by poison. *54:45* Like it wasn't a mystery to solve. *54:54* There wasn't *54:55* it almost felt like a song that would have fit perfectly on a murder mystery train. *54:57* You know, it kind of felt akin to that. *55:01* I liked it a lot. *55:04* And the uh the gooper blooper theme, like that boss fight, I really liked the song in that fight. *55:05* I thought that was pretty good. *55:11* I just I there were a couple songs in you. *55:14* I just can't think of anything off the top of my head, yeah. *55:17* That's perfectly fine. *55:20* Uh I just even the main theme grew on me every time I debuted up the game. *55:21* It's just uh That is the one that theme I can't think of, I guess *55:26* What's that one? *55:31* Catchy. *55:32* Not great. *55:33* There's definitely better songs in different games out there. *55:34* Um *55:39* I think it's a testament to how far the series has come, you know, when we look at something like Origami King. *55:40* But I d uh for what they were playing with here on the 3DS and *55:47* For the talent and stuff, I actually I enjoyed quite a few of the the world tracks in this game. *55:51* It was it was good. *55:58* Let's before we talk about *56:00* specifically paper mario as a whole and kind of what we think overall. *56:03* What is the legacy? *56:08* And I think the answer's actually pretty obvious. *56:10* What is the legacy of this game? *56:12* It's the one that changed everything. *56:14* I mean I feel like that's the main takeaway here. *56:17* Mm-hmm. *56:21* It's the one that changed everything for better or worse. *56:21* My big takeaway, though personally, is kind of what I alluded to earlier, is I'm trying to figure out what they saw in this. *56:24* To where they essentially doubled down in color splash. *56:33* Because the game came out and people were like, eh, this is not really that great. *56:36* Uh I mean this was easily the it it is to this day the lowest reviewed Paper Mario game, if I'm correct. *56:40* on Metacritic. *56:46* So the game came out and it was largely very uh not well received *56:47* And then they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. *56:54* This is the ideas we have here are good. *56:56* We just need to change them and blow them up to a bigger scale. *56:58* Color splash. *57:01* And people were still like, no. *57:02* This ain't it. *57:04* Like so I I guess the legacy for this one is in my mind it's now it's very much tied as it's like a one-two punch with this in color splash for me *57:06* Where I can't re I mean I can't separate the two in my head, but it it really just shows that this was like a breeding ground for what color splash became, but at the same time color splash isn't anything super different in a lot of ways *57:15* So I'm just wondering why they thought this sort of format and this general like combat system and stuff like that, like what is it about this that they think is so *57:28* good that they decided to stick with it even in face of the even in face of the criticism. *57:40* Stick with it. *57:47* I see what you did there. *57:48* Yeah. *57:49* This you're you're I like the way you put it. *57:50* It is this is the game that changed everything. *57:53* This is it is a definitive mark in like the Paper Mario series of you have *57:56* The first two games, the the RPG era, you have Super Paper Mario by itself, and then you have Sticker Star through Origami King. *58:03* You can the DNA of this game is the foundation of Paper Mario going forward. *58:14* There was there was a quote on the last page of the I Wotta Ask. *58:20* that I really kind of think s sinks this in all the way. *58:24* Is quote, well, as mentioned before, the mechanics present new challenges *58:29* And the game world represents a new start. *58:35* We worked hard so that this game would become the new standard for future Paper Mario games. *58:37* So please play it to the fullest. *58:43* End quote. *58:45* Like that is they set out to do that and they achieved it. *58:46* Is that good? *58:51* It's not what I would want from Paper Mario. *58:53* I think the thing that's baffling to me is that *58:57* They didn't ha like it's it's strange that they wanted this to be the new like benchmark for the series moving forward, but even internally, they clearly didn't have a well-defined idea of what this game should even be. *59:00* Like they were taking ideas around uh you know Miyamoto and saying like hey how's this look and he's like no no no like like he basically armchair developed this game it seems like um *59:13* Mm-hmm. *59:24* And so it's very strange for me that they want this to be the new the how the series is moving forward. *59:24* Like when you set out to make a new like like when you set out to make something you're like, okay, we want this to be the first *59:31* install me and what'll be a whole new thing moving forward. *59:39* Like I feel like like God of War 2018 is like a good example of that where it's like, okay, we've had all these games before, cool. *59:42* We're still God of War, but this is gonna be a new starting point here with this game and everything afterwards is gonna be more in this style. *59:49* That's fine. *59:56* If you want to do that with Paper Mario here on 3DS Swiss Ticker Start *59:57* That's fine, but maybe come into the project with some more concrete ideas on what you actually wanted to do rather than just being like, I don't know *01:00:00* Here's an idea. *01:00:10* What do you think, boss? *01:00:11* And boss is like, nah, bad. *01:00:12* Change it. *01:00:14* So about *01:00:17* Maybe the final thing on Miyamoto here. *01:00:18* It just Miyamoto obviously has a lot of sway. *01:00:21* I mean I mean they all talked about how nervous they were it like it impressive I mean I'd be nervous I *01:00:24* I'd be nervous playing anything with him. *01:00:31* But I think of a other examples or stories that I've that have been shared. *01:00:33* It's not me personally I've heard, but you know, you read like Dinosaur World on the GameCube. *01:00:38* Do you remember what that turned into? *01:00:45* Because Miyamoto came in and said, no, put make this is now this Star Fox event. *01:00:47* Star Fox in this dinosaur video game. *01:00:53* Exactly. *01:00:56* And then I'm ninety percent sure the same thing happened with Metroid Prime. *01:00:57* And like this first person shooter, like Metroid, and then retro *01:01:03* Created the prime series from that. *01:01:09* And also even Breath of the Wild, where they had this area for him to play in, and all Miyamoto did was climb the trees. *01:01:11* Like that and so that obviously evolves into Link can climb anything and it works. *01:01:20* That's one of the great, you know, mechanics in the game. *01:01:27* Miyamoto has a power and a sway, and the way he approaches games is definitely unique to him and clearly has created some of the greatest games and franchises in the history of this medium. *01:01:31* But like he missed the mark on this one, buddy. *01:01:43* It's just Yes. *01:01:46* Too much too much of a swing. *01:01:48* And you know, I'll say it here for posterity. *01:01:51* Uh to be fair, I don't buy it. *01:01:55* I don't believe in it. *01:01:57* But there is the the Nintendo rumor mill has churned out that there is some sort of Paper Mario remake in the pipelines at Intelligent Systems. *01:01:58* Whether that's the first or the second game, who knows? *01:02:06* But if that does become true, that could be a way for them to test the viability of burning back that traditional RPG formula, especially now with Alpha Dream out of the picture, unfortunately due to bankruptcy. *01:02:10* And maybe try a new RPG Paper Mario style game, but I really think *01:02:22* This game changed everything, and I'm not super happy about that. *01:02:32* So okay, so that's a good jumping off point, I think, to do our kind of series wrap-up. *01:02:40* Then this is up this is the what I'm trying to do. *01:02:45* I try to set all these up. *01:02:48* So, yeah, this is the end. *01:02:49* We've reached the end of season one of Chapter Select. *01:02:51* We've played all the Paper Mario games. *01:02:53* We did it! *01:02:55* So I *01:02:56* We came into this and we wanted to do this because we're like, we like Paper Mario games. *01:02:57* Yeah, those are good. *01:03:01* I guess my question now is, do we like Paper Mario games? *01:03:03* I would say personally not really I don't think so. *01:03:08* It is I I don't again I don't think they're bad, but like *01:03:17* I like Thousand Your Door. *01:03:22* Let's put it that way. *01:03:24* Right? *01:03:26* I I like Thousand Your Door. *01:03:26* Or let's put it this way. *01:03:29* I love Thousand Your Door. *01:03:31* Thousand Euros a great game. *01:03:32* Yeah, I said that during our episode. *01:03:33* That's one of my favorite games ever. *01:03:36* Sorry. *01:03:37* For sure. *01:03:38* Yeah *01:03:38* I like Paper Mario 64. *01:03:40* I think it's a great starting point for what would become Thousand Your Door. *01:03:42* I think that's awesome. *01:03:46* Super Paper Mario. *01:03:48* I like it way more than I thought I was going to. *01:03:49* Yeah. *01:03:53* There are you know, and then there are parts in the other games that I do enjoy. *01:03:54* But if if tomorrow a new Paper Mario game was announced *01:03:58* I'm not gonna be excited about it. *01:04:04* I'm not it just what has happened in the last 10 years has not been something that I'm encouraged about. *01:04:05* There is a reason we never played *01:04:14* sticker star or color splash. *01:04:17* There's a reason we bought Worragami King and didn't play it for a year, and that reason was this podcast. *01:04:20* But still. *01:04:25* I I like Thousand Year Door and I will play that game, you know, till the day I die. *01:04:28* I will just, you know, replay it and replay it. *01:04:35* But *01:04:38* I guess on the whole, paper mware is okay. *01:04:39* Yeah. *01:04:43* It's good at times. *01:04:43* They just need to figure out what they want to do with it. *01:04:45* It's just so clear from sticker stars. *01:04:47* It's lost its identity. *01:04:49* It's so clear, yeah, it's so clear from sticker start onward that they're like, what is this? *01:04:50* What do we even want to do anymore? *01:04:54* I don't know. *01:04:56* And like reading that Awada asks is like *01:04:57* Pretty clear about that, that they didn't have any the concrete ideas and it just got kept gett bounced around. *01:05:00* I think origami king, they had some *01:05:06* Like better ideas in terms of structure, I will say, but the combat system just brings that whole game down. *01:05:09* Um *01:05:18* In a lot of ways. *01:05:20* Unfortunate world structure of like always find a Viltramite and get the power and then fight the boss. *01:05:21* Like it was very cookie. *01:05:26* Fight a Viltramite. *01:05:28* Isn't that what they were called? *01:05:30* What were those things? *01:05:31* Viltramites are from Invincible. *01:05:32* Oh wait. *01:05:34* Oh no. *01:05:35* What were they called? *01:05:36* Uh Vimentals? *01:05:37* Uh something like that. *01:05:39* Fight a Village Fight of Vilt yeah, I love fighting. *01:05:41* I love fighting Omni Man in Paper Mario. *01:05:45* So if we were gonna do a ranking of them *01:05:49* Uh not that we need to do some sort of official one. *01:05:52* I mean it I mean it seems pretty obvious it would be Thousand Door 1, but probably Paper Mario Original 2, Super Paper Mario 3 *01:05:54* I'd put Stiger Star at four. *01:06:06* I think Color Splash is the worst. *01:06:09* And then there are aspects of Origami King I do like *01:06:13* Like legitimately, but yeah, it's just that dang combat system, man. *01:06:18* If that combat system was even was just literally anything else, that game would be a lot better. *01:06:23* W what? *01:06:31* Mm from the new games. *01:06:34* By new games I mean sticker star on. *01:06:36* Like what is good in them that you actually would like to see in another game? *01:06:39* Well I forget who c Anything? *01:06:45* I forget who composed Origami King, but it kind of had a slapping soundtrack, so bring that guy back. *01:06:47* Yeah. *01:06:52* Or bring that. *01:06:53* Girlback, whoever composed it. *01:06:54* Um I don't know. *01:06:56* I do think the writing in Origami King was pretty okay at times. *01:06:58* Um I feel like they started to find their footing with that *01:07:04* again, uh, because I didn't think the writing in Color Splash was very good, personally, but I think Origami King felt like it was getting better. *01:07:07* So I feel like a larger in focus on story and a larger focus on that kind of I like the Thousand Year Door and Super Paper Mario like *01:07:17* break the fourth wall pretty often. *01:07:27* Um I I like that they're self-referential and kind of self-aware. *01:07:29* And I I that's kind of something that has been lost as as the games go on. *01:07:33* Um, so I'd like to see that stuff, those elements sort of come back. *01:07:39* And just yeah, I I think the other big thing is um *01:07:43* Good side characters as well, I I feel like go a long way in these games. *01:07:48* Especially because Mario doesn't can't carry these games because he just is a *01:07:54* Conduit for the player. *01:08:00* So yeah. *01:08:01* I I love the visuals. *01:08:04* I think the design aesthetic of a lot of *01:08:06* You know, Color Splash and Origami King visually are great. *01:08:11* Um, I definitely would love a Paper Mario RPG gameplay-wise with these *01:08:16* graphics, the the visual style. *01:08:24* They've th I think they will age super great. *01:08:27* Um just like the original two games have aged fairly well. *01:08:30* I think honestly the poorest as far as aging's gonna be *01:08:34* probably will be super. *01:08:38* And that's solely for the wacky character designs. *01:08:40* I just don't think they're as endearing as the stuff you see in Thousand Year Door. *01:08:43* I would love I would love for that to be combined with the gameplay that, you know, I think we're both super fond of. *01:08:48* It *01:08:57* You know, they they can design really engaging, rich looking worlds. *01:08:59* I just I would love for them to be more fleshed out, more side quest, unique characters. *01:09:05* Some of these toads have really great personalities. *01:09:12* I just wish they looked different and maybe were more active, played more active roles. *01:09:14* I just *01:09:20* a richer world that you would find in an RPG. *01:09:21* But But story doesn't matter. *01:09:24* You know No one cares about story. *01:09:26* Story doesn't matter. *01:09:27* Honestly, wouldn't you even mind *01:09:29* the adventure style mechanics, like adventure game style puzzle solving, to play a part in the future, but to make that only adventure game puzzle solving, not *01:09:31* incorporate that into the combat, not force that onto the player. *01:09:46* You know, I think like the the dark blue mansion in Color Splash, that was a really fun *01:09:52* creative level of solving all these ghost toad's problems with the environment and and and whatnot. *01:09:58* But don't build the game around that or make things, you know, the priority to solve it and have that be fused with combat where you don't even know what to use with things. *01:10:07* Yeah. *01:10:18* You know, should I use this on an attack or solve a puzzle later? *01:10:18* Like separate the two and lean into that puzzle solving stuff that you're doing. *01:10:21* Just be more forgiving with those aspects as well. *01:10:26* Like, oh, you used a thing in this situation. *01:10:29* It's gone from your inventory. *01:10:33* Sorry. *01:10:34* Like just be like, oh, you can't do that. *01:10:35* Use the real grace there and just put it back in the deck and say, well, this isn't the solution. *01:10:37* You know, go cure, do that. *01:10:42* Yeah. *01:10:44* But there's potential. *01:10:45* There's a lot of potential to kind of fuse these two together and I really uh I hope *01:10:46* I hope the RPG part returns someday. *01:10:52* And maybe it does in a remake and then who knows from there. *01:10:55* But I don't think Papermar is going away. *01:10:58* I don't think it is either. *01:11:02* Yeah. *01:11:04* And I think it has an opportunity to start a new era here with Mario and Luigi currently non-existent. *01:11:05* Yeah. *01:11:14* Um *01:11:15* Like they have a real opportunity to reinvent Paper Mario again, just like they did with Sticker Star. *01:11:16* And maybe the third era of Paper Mario could begin here on the Switch. *01:11:24* Um we just have to wait and see. *01:11:29* Yeah. *01:11:32* Yeah, I I I don't know. *01:11:32* Yeah, I think there is hope for the future, but I if they just need to *01:11:34* They need to look into the they need to honestly what they need to do, and I'm not saying this because a lot of times I don't think fans are right, but I think they do need to listen to what fans are saying. *01:11:38* Like fans have been pretty *01:11:48* loud for ten to fifteen years now about what they want and what they like from this series. *01:11:50* And this series does have a lot of passion behind it and it does have a lot of fans that if *01:11:57* If they did say like, okay, hey, we've learned a lot over the last couple games, we are gonna go back to a more RPG style experience, but here are the things that we think would be good to take with us from Color Splash Origami King onward. *01:12:02* Like look at Super Mario Odyssey. *01:12:15* It is it was a response in the way of like, let's return to the Super Mario sixty four style of *01:12:17* kingdoms and just collecting moons or stars and exploring these 3D spaces instead of what they did in sunshine. *01:12:27* And Galaxy, which was very linear, and then Super Mario 3D World was not that traditional 3D style game, even though it's great. *01:12:35* And then you look at Odyssey and it's just this response and return. *01:12:43* And I think Paper Mario can do that too and have this kind of resurgence, but also bring in modern design and things like that. *01:12:47* that. *01:12:57* So yeah. *01:12:57* Fingers crossed, hopefully. *01:12:58* And you know, if they make another one we can always *01:13:00* make another episode, I guess. *01:13:04* So I don't know. *01:13:06* Hopefully. *01:13:07* Just don't show me a mode of the game until it's too late to change anything, I guess. *01:13:07* Yeah. *01:13:12* Uh I think that'll do it. *01:13:12* Do you have any final words for Paper Mario? *01:13:14* Um, I don't think so. *01:13:16* Like I said, I'm glad that we saw this through and we didn't pivot to doing something else because we didn't we almost thought about not *01:13:18* Doing this for the first season once we kind of like I said, this idea has been ruminating for a very long time and we almost pivoted away from super or from Paper Mario. *01:13:26* Um, I'm glad we saw them all through. *01:13:36* It's nice to say that I've now beat them all except for paper jam, if you want to count that or whatever. *01:13:39* I tried to get you to include paper jam. *01:13:45* You didn't do it. *01:13:47* I glad we're done. *01:13:48* Uh and glad we're done. *01:13:51* No, it's nice. *01:13:53* Um it feels good to say that I've I've played them all now *01:13:54* For sure. *01:13:58* Yeah, especially because I had only ever Before we started this, actually, I had never beat any of these. *01:13:59* To completion because I never beat I never I got to the very final boss of Thousand Year Door, but I got stuck as a kid. *01:14:09* So dun dun *01:14:16* I never I never beat any of them at all, so it was nice to fully beat six games that I've never actually really played before. *01:14:18* So that's been fun. *01:14:25* Yeah, it it's been it has been a treat to do this with you and with our guests uh in the other episodes. *01:14:27* So yeah, I'm really happy with how this all turned out. *01:14:34* Logan season two is coming. *01:14:37* It is coming. *01:14:40* Um we are doing Can't stop this train. *01:14:41* Yeah, so we've got season one in the bag, but it's not gonna be another *01:14:45* 14 month turnaround or whatever until we are doing the second season. *01:14:48* We are uh we've been planning the second season for a bit now, so we know what we're doing next, and uh we have *01:14:52* schedules on our end on when we're going to start rolling this all out. *01:14:59* Uh tentatively, uh this episode will be posting in you'll you should be able to first listen to this episode in mid-August. *01:15:03* Um we're gonna be taking the rest of the month off and then the majority of September off from actually posting, I should say *01:15:11* From posting. *01:15:19* We're but we're basically gonna be working on season two for the next couple of months. *01:15:20* And at the earliest, you know, we're at the earliest you'll see start seeing season two roll out here. *01:15:24* End of September, early October is what we're aiming for. *01:15:33* And that'll continue. *01:15:37* It's all subject to change. *01:15:38* Yeah. *01:15:40* Around early October, late September, second season goes live, and then we should be done with it before the end of the year. *01:15:44* That's our current goal. *01:15:52* We've they're a lot quicker, shorter games than Paper Mario. *01:15:54* We frankly we learned a lesson where we have a goal of two seasons a year and *01:15:59* The longer season should take up the whole year and then just publish it at the end, and we should have a shorter focus season up front *01:16:05* And doing for myself 146 hours and for Logan 135 hours of Paper Mario was probably a bit much for the first season, like structurally. *01:16:13* So this is gonna be a much shorter *01:16:24* time investment for season two and then you know we have plans for the future and stuff beyond that so I'm excited to crank these out *01:16:28* It's gonna be a great pivot. *01:16:39* It is uh do you wanna do you wanna tease where we're going? *01:16:41* Uh yeah, so we'll be obviously more than anything? *01:16:46* Obviously like *01:16:49* Keep following us on Twitter at Moreman12 and at maxroberts143 and we'll be in on maxfrequency. *01:16:50* what net or com. *01:16:58* Net. *01:16:59* Okay. *01:17:00* So keep following us there, and we're gonna be teasing more about what the second season I'll have in store. *01:17:00* I don't know, probably in September we'll fully tease it and reveal it. *01:17:06* Um *01:17:10* But it is PlayStation related. *01:17:11* So we're jumping from Nintendo to PlayStation, so hop on your Sony ponies and go for a ride, boys. *01:17:13* Let's go. *01:17:19* So yeah, if you want to play along with us *01:17:20* Maybe subscribe to PlayStation Now. *01:17:23* That is the soul thing. *01:17:25* Uh one of us will be playing these games on PlayStation now, and I can tell you it's not me. *01:17:31* Very excited to dig into that. *01:17:35* Honestly, I'm probably gonna start it here this week. *01:17:37* And *01:17:40* So I'm super stoked. *01:17:41* We've got a lot of plans for season two and beyond. *01:17:42* So uh like Logan said, please follow us on Twitter. *01:17:45* Logan's at Moreman 12, myself at Max Roberts143, and subscribe to this podcast feed uh wherever you're listening to it. *01:17:49* You know, it's on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. *01:17:58* Overcast, my preferred podcast player, or you know, just wherever you can plug in an RSS feed. *01:18:01* So And if you've listened to this for if you listen to this first season, uh leave a review. *01:18:06* Uh as well. *01:18:11* If you enjoyed this, obviously, we would appreciate a glowing review, but let us know how this did. *01:18:12* Obviously, we had a season zero, you know, with The Last of Us, but that was done *01:18:18* So far back that it wasn't really in the cadence of the rest of this actual first season. *01:18:23* So we're trying to get better with this format and trying to get better uh just with the podcast as a whole. *01:18:28* So let us know how we did and your feedback is *01:18:33* Very much welcome. *01:18:37* In any regard, even if you want to send us, I don't know, I'm sure you have ways to contact people on your website and stuff like that. *01:18:38* Or just on Twitter. *01:18:45* Anything is good. *01:18:46* Twitter Twitter's best. *01:18:47* But yeah, I'm really proud of this season. *01:18:49* I'm looking forward to season two *01:18:52* If you want to see Logan's work outside of this, go check out comicbook. *01:18:55* com. *01:18:59* That's where he writes and works. *01:19:00* And if you'd like to see any of my writing, you can go over to maxfrequency. *01:19:02* net. *01:19:06* Thank you all so much for listening to season one and we'll be back for season two before too long. *01:19:06* Until then, adios. *01:19:13* Bye everybody. *01:19:15*