# Chapter Select, [[S2E6 - God of War III]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody, welcome to episode six of season two of Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between a different series of games and explore their evolution, design, and legacy. *00:00* For this season, uh we are covering the God of War series. *00:11* In today's episode, as you can tell by the title, is going to be all about God of War 3, or technically God of War 3 remastered, because that's what we played. *00:14* Uh I am your host, Logan Moore. *00:23* Joining me as always for this God of War discussion is Max Roberts. *00:25* Hi Max. *00:29* Hi Logan. *00:30* Uh y yeah, I guess technically it's it's God of War 3 remastered, but they're based they're the same game, just one's a little bit *00:32* Prettier, a little bit smoother. *00:39* If the trophy lists don't transfer between games, then they're different. *00:40* That's the rule that Mark Cerny created, I think. *00:44* Is it mmm *00:48* But what about the save data? *00:50* So purely Can you transfer the save data? *00:52* Not for God of War 3, but I was thinking Spider-Man. *00:55* Um so the triculus are separate, but the saves say transfer. *00:58* That's uh that's an evil dark magic hack that they've come up with recently that's would pro which probably shouldn't be allowed. *01:03* But uh sometimes you gotta do those things because just because. *01:10* I mean yeah, you gotta get the plat, right? *01:14* I still haven't I mean this is a total aside. *01:17* I still have not done that for Spider-Man. *01:19* Even though I have all the trophies in that game. *01:21* Even the DLC. *01:23* You just have a free plat, you just want to cash in. *01:24* You're you're saving it for when you get in a bet. *01:26* I've told you this, but like when I replay games, and I think we we've talked about it kind of with the God of War games too. *01:28* The ones where I did not have *01:35* full trophy lists to pursue were the ones where I was like, oh man, this kind of sucks. *01:37* Like uh got the original God of War and God of War 2 I had played previously, so I didn't I didn't have really any trophies to gain on the on the main path throughout the game *01:42* I I I like getting trophies over the course of uh whatever, a 15 to 20 hour game that I'm playing. *01:51* So I ha I I've intentionally not gotten them in the Spider-Man one. *01:58* Because if I replay that game, which I want to do, especially before the sequel comes out, I think I would just prefer to get up ping all the trophies again as I go through it. *02:02* I don't know. *02:13* I mean you totally can. *02:14* That's and then if it and then if I get to the end and it's like I don't feel like doing all these like clear out the warehouse missions or whatever, then I could just transfer the save afterward and and do that *02:16* That's very strange, I know, but I like the satisfaction of seeing it ping one after another like once at once every what twenty or thirty minutes get a little trophy ping. *02:27* Keeps your uh *02:38* Keeps your what's what's the what's the the the chemical thing that makes you happy? *02:40* Keeps my serotonin levels high, I guess. *02:45* Yeah. *02:46* I don't know. *02:49* I might brainwind. *02:50* I'm not a biologist where I don't know who knows. *02:51* Chemist or whatever the heck. *02:53* I write for a living and I do it very poorly to be honest. *02:55* But anyway, uh God War 3. *02:58* Um *03:00* So this episode, as you can tell, this is our sixth episode of the season. *03:02* If you have not been following along with the season two so far, uh this is our final *03:06* episode of the original God of War arc, which is, I mean God of War 3 is the final game of the Greek God of War Ark. *03:12* Um typically we bounce back and forth like we said at the top *03:20* Um play the first game in the series and then play the most recent one, but we put God of War 2018 at the end of this series, which we have talked about multiple times over the course of this podcast. *03:25* If you want to hear more about why we did that, just go listen to episode one if you haven't already. *03:34* Um but yeah this episode is going to be all about God of War 3, and which means we will be closing out the Grink the Greek pantheon this time around. *03:38* You know, it was your idea to slightly tweak the structure this way for this particular season and um I've told you off air throughout this season and whatnot, but *03:48* I am again really excited that you convinced me of this because especially playing this game, the hype *03:58* f to replay God of War 2018, which I've already played twice now, so this will be my third go-around. *04:07* You have two playthroughs and you don't have the plat that's pretty shameful. *04:13* Come on. *04:15* Well it was a lighter casual playthrough with Abby, so it wasn't *04:16* I was just doing the story beats. *04:20* Um yeah, I'm I'm glad that we did it this way. *04:22* Uh and I'm very, very excited to start twenty eighteen very soon. *04:27* Yeah, I downloaded that on my PS5 today, and as I as I did, I was like, oh yeah, they put out an update for this game. *04:31* Heck yeah. *04:38* 4K60, baby. *04:39* 4K60 FPS on the PC PS5. *04:41* Let's go *04:44* Um yeah, that'll be I have not replayed that game. *04:45* Conversely. *04:47* So the last time I played that game, going off my platinum status on that game would have been May twenty eighteen, I think. *04:48* Mm-hmm. *04:55* So I have not touched that game in over three years. *04:56* So *04:59* Yeah, I'm very much looking forward to diving back into that. *04:59* But God of War 3, that's a game we played this week. *05:03* Let's break down everything about this one. *05:06* So once again, the game was developed by Sony Santa Monica Studio. *05:08* It came out on the PlayStation 3. *05:12* Uh it was later remastered for PlayStation 4, which is the version we played. *05:14* That game's part of the PS Plus collection, so. *05:18* If you have PlayStation Plus, you own that game. *05:21* Congratulations. *05:23* It released on March 16th, 2010. *05:25* The remaster came out July 14th, 2015. *05:27* The game direct director was Stig a Stig Asmussen. *05:32* I think that's how you say his name. *05:38* Uh the producer was Steve Katerson. *05:40* Combat lead was Adam Poole. *05:43* And then music, once again, was Gerard Marino, uh, with help from Ron Fish, Mike Reagan, Chris Velasco, and Jeff Rona, who was new this time around. *05:46* Mm-hmm. *05:58* I actually did my research for the music this time. *06:00* It wasn't so much that Gerard was leading, while he does have most of the credits because he's been with God of War. *06:04* the longest along with some of these other composers. *06:11* But they apparently all just composed their own tracks and like that fused together to become the soundtrack. *06:14* It wasn't like a lead composer and then *06:20* the the rest underneath, they were all apparently equals in the uh creation of the music for the game. *06:23* That makes sense with how this game is structured though, because it is very much *06:31* You go from one god to the next and each one kinda has their own different vibe and tone to them and has their own little area. *06:35* And the previous games have been like that too, but perhaps for this one that made more sense than even normal. *06:44* Uh Metacritic this time around. *06:50* Uh once again coming in at a very high score for the most part *06:53* Uh 92 out of 100 for the original version on PlayStation 3D. *06:57* You know what the remaster got out of curiosity? *07:01* 81. *07:04* 81. *07:05* That sounds. *07:07* About right. *07:09* I as a game reviewer myself who like contribu I'll I'll I'll just say this. *07:10* Like when I review remasters, it's hard for me to ever wanna like rate them high. *07:15* Because if I if it's just a *07:20* If you just played the game and it's like, yep, this is a remaster, I feel like I usually just d try to default to giving it about an eight or so. *07:23* There has to be some other special things in the mix for me to usually want to go higher on certain remasters, whether whether that be like bonus content they included or *07:32* Um all the DLC being folded in as well. *07:42* It's definitely a struggle to balance it. *07:45* It's like cause this game *07:48* You know, God of War Three may be, you know, a ninety two or ninety-three out of a hundred in general, but then *07:50* All they've really added was a photo mode and 10 or um I guess it was 1080 60. *07:59* And I think later there's a pro patch to bring it up to 4K. *08:08* I'll double check that. *08:11* Like they really it was just a resolution bump, frame rate bump, and photo mode. *08:13* So, you know, where do you it's t it's a tough thing to balance, I think *08:18* I mean, even when you look at uh the Metacritic for uh the remastered version, like some of the pull quotes here, like you had PlayStation Universe gave it a 9 out of 10, but they say *08:22* As far as remasters go, God of War 3 is a welcome one, but a welcome but unnecessary one. *08:35* The single addition of a photo mode and updated graphics are something that just aren't worth paying $40 for a five-year-old game. *08:40* Yeah, like that's how I feel. *08:45* Like if you're if you're not including anything super noteworthy, it just feels like you're kind of trotting out the same thing and are just trying to *08:47* Hey, let's get more money from this in a very easy way. *08:55* We can get more pe people to pay for this game, so sure, let's just release it again. *08:58* Um And so that's something I'm typically very critical of. *09:03* Um but yeah, it doesn't ever speak to the quality of the game itself. *09:07* 'Cause you're not I don't know. *09:12* When when I review remasters I feel like I'm reviewing what's been remastered and then the additional things around the edge, more so than the game itself. *09:13* Anyway, God War 3 Max. *09:21* What was your experience with this one? *09:24* Obviously you've played it before, but have you played it just once or a bunch of times or *09:28* I this is my third go-around with God of War 3. *09:34* Uh played it twice before, I played it once on PS3, and then back in 2018 before *09:38* that the PS4 God of War game came out, uh I replayed one, two, and three. *09:45* And that time I played it on the remaster version on my PS4. *09:50* And then I've done that once again. *09:54* This time around, uh I remember, I think anyone who was following God of War or PlayStation at the time *09:56* remembers their E3 demo with um the Titan fight and Helios and that whole fight with the um *10:04* It's not a manticore, but the snake, lion, and goat. *10:12* It's a uh no, I know what the name of it is. *10:16* It's uh *10:19* It'll come to you. *10:20* Yeah. *10:21* So but it's that it's that demo though. *10:22* It's really I think it's actually one of uh one of PlayStation's more iconic demos that people can remember. *10:25* Chimera. *10:32* Chimera. *10:33* Thank you. *10:34* So the it was that demo and at Best Buy you could play that demo at some point, probably closer to launch, not around that particular E3. *10:35* And I remember being in a Best Buy somewhere and they had one of those gaming rocking chairs, like the ones that just are curved and they sit on the floor. *10:46* And they had probably had speakers in them and it was some Best Buy demo kiosk. *10:55* No one else was around. *10:59* This big TV sitting on the floor in the middle of a Best Buy. *11:01* And I played that demo there. *11:04* And this was before I had a PS3. *11:05* And I went, I *11:07* I need to play that. *11:08* I need this to play that. *11:09* Because I just thought it was so cool. *11:11* And it was one of the first PS3 games that I bought when I got finally got a console in 2011. *11:13* So *11:21* Yeah, I've I've I've love God of War 3 so much. *11:22* What about you? *11:27* Yeah, it so I play I've played this before, played it on PS3, I've not played the remaster. *11:28* Yeah, when I was really into when I started getting really into like consuming E3 each year and stuff like that, it was or it was around like the 360 and PS3 era. *11:33* I would say I really started to pay attention to like *11:44* E3 being the tent pull show Each year. *11:47* E3 and what what used to be uh what's now the Game Awards, what what was like the Spike VGAs or VGGs or whatever. *11:49* Yeah, at the time *11:57* Uh I really started getting into that stuff in addition to, you know, like reading gaming magazines and stuff, which was primarily how I think I had consumed *11:58* gaming media beforehand, uh probably around the time that this game would have been uh getting shown off at those kind of shows. *12:07* Mm-hmm. *12:16* So about what, two thousand eight, seven, eight? *12:16* Uh it was came out in twenty nine. *12:20* Two thousand nine. *12:23* So I I distinctly remember like being exposed to them to this game at those shows and I was like, okay, I need to play this at some at some point in the future. *12:25* I need to play these games finally because people say they're awesome. *12:34* The new one looks really cool. *12:37* Um I I yeah, I distinctly remember that Helios uh that Helios demo that you were talking about. *12:39* I remember they showed off something with the Poseidon fight. *12:46* Before release as well. *12:50* Yeah, maybe it was like a preview they did on like on X Play or something like that. *12:52* They may because I remember X-Play was talking about this game a lot back in the day. *12:57* It was really big that this was coming out. *13:00* Um so I remember like seeing a lot of those moments, but it wasn't until a few years later that I had played it for the first time. *13:03* Um *13:10* So yeah, I mean this was this was the game that really pushed me to kind of try to find a way to play the other two, which I eventually did, like I've talked about on the show before in the previous episodes. *13:12* And yeah, I mean just the basically just how this one previewed and how this one looked really um pushed me to *13:23* get into this series more so than any other critical praise or anything like that from the other ones. *13:32* Cause I had obviously known the others were good, but it wasn't until this game's *13:36* hype cycle really started that I was like, okay, I I should y I yes, I I must play these at some point. *13:41* I should do I should get on board. *13:47* Yeah, so whenever I got a PS3, I started trying to look into that and a few years later eventually did it. *13:49* Um so coming back to this, because this would have been the first time in I don't know *13:54* I I mean again I could look up my original trophies for the original game. *14:01* I don't necessarily need to unless you want to, but this would be the first time I've played this game in *14:04* Probably seven or eight years. *14:10* Um Knee-Derk Reaction. *14:13* I'll I guess I'll start. *14:15* Um this is probably the best one I think we've played so far. *14:17* Um *14:21* For some reason, like I didn't think for some reason I always remember thinking I liked two more. *14:23* And two is really good. *14:28* Like I'm not poo-pooing God of War Two at all. *14:29* But of the six that we have played so far, this one is *14:32* This one has probably age the best. *14:36* Um The pacing is the big thing that I think is great in this game. *14:38* Um I sat down Monday *14:44* And I was I think I was right around that Helios fight or s or something. *14:48* Maybe even I I wasn't very far in. *14:52* I had basically done the opening with Poseidon. *14:54* I played about an hour of the game. *14:56* I sat down Monday and by the time I went to bed Monday I was I was at Zeus ready to fight Zeus. *14:58* Uh for for reference, we're recording this on a Wednesday. *15:04* So I basically beat the entirety of this game in a single day. *15:07* And this is one of the longer ones, and it doesn't feel like it at all because they keep putting things in front of you every couple minutes, which are a ton of fun. *15:11* We'll get into it more with the gameplay stuff, but I uh the items they give you in this one are by far the best they've given you in any of the games. *15:21* Um yeah, this is *15:28* For some reason I did not think this one was I don't know. *15:30* I not it wasn't that I thought it was bad, um, but for some reason it never made like an extreme impression on me when I played it for the first time. *15:34* Yeah. *15:42* But now having come back, no, this is a this is a very this is a very fun game, I uh f first and foremost, I I think. *15:42* Like it's hard not to have a good time playing this one. *15:50* It absolutely is. *15:53* I had a similar thing this time around, and I honestly believe each time I've played this game, it just has this infectious pace to it that you just *15:54* One more one more boss or let me just get to the next area. *16:04* Like let me do one more thing. *16:07* Because it's so grand and *16:09* Epic. *16:13* And I know these words are are used quite a bit actually in game criticism, but really I do think this honestly captures the spirit because of just the the scale of it and the the notion of *16:14* Yeah. *16:26* Destroying the Greek gods of Olympus and and tearing it all down. *16:27* It really is that big grandiose action adventure game. *16:30* To momentarily circle back to your trophies, I think I have a better picture now of your God of War experience. *16:36* You popped, uh, you beat the game according to your trophies. *16:42* back in uh on May fourteenth of twenty fifteen. *16:47* Okay. *16:52* Which was just a couple of months before the PS4 remaster. *16:53* But they must I think they would have announced the PS4 remaster at E3, though, is the thing. *16:58* Maybe, possibly. *17:04* But if we go back and we look at your God of War 2 trophies, you got those in late April of 2015. *17:05* So you clearly were playing the God of War trilogy like in those early um early months of twenty fifteen. *17:11* Early college years. *17:19* Why was I playing these in college? *17:20* I I don't I don't know why that was a thing. *17:22* Did we uh no, we wouldn't have been doing our previous podcast by that point. *17:26* We started We would have a couple more um uh we would have done it a couple months later, I think. *17:31* Would have been like We were talking at that point. *17:37* Yeah, for sure. *17:41* So we started our show in March of 2015. *17:42* So actually, yes, no, we were playing those. *17:45* So if we listen to some early episodes of our show Millennial Gaming Speak, which is now actually *17:48* Totally available to listen on podcast services, thanks to Max doing some work on that front uh the past week or so. *17:55* Um, I wonder if I talk about these. *18:04* Like yeah, I mean God of War 3, I mean PlayStation announced that um we're bringing God of War 3 to PS4 and it was *18:08* Just d hooray? *18:16* Are we supposed to celebrate that? *18:18* Um I played that game five years ago. *18:20* I I I didn't play that game five years ago. *18:22* I'm hoping to play that game within the next couple of weeks. *18:24* But *18:27* But that's another story. *18:27* Yeah, I'm curious. *18:31* I it's so interesting. *18:32* I mean, around that time uh PT was out. *18:34* I definitely would I definitely would have talked about playing these on the show. *18:42* For for reference too, by the way. *18:46* So this is very weird. *18:48* God of War 3 Remastered was announced in March 2015. *18:53* So did I see that so did I see that get announced and I was like, hold up, wait, I never played these. *18:58* I'm gonna play 'em now. *19:04* 'Cause like that that that that's the catalyst I think for me to then Well play one and two the the month *19:06* After. *19:13* So the the but let's I remember your story being that a friend in your neighborhood got a PS3 bundle that came with God of War 1 and 2. *19:14* That's true, and I could still borrow that from him, I believe. *19:25* So maybe per chance you played those and were just in a I need to play God of War 3 now, like I can't wait until July *19:28* Maybe. *19:37* I think it may have just jogged my memory of like, oh yeah, I never played these. *19:38* I should do that. *19:42* But also, where did I play them? *19:43* I I had no, I remember this, because this would have been first year of the P this is such an aside. *19:46* I'm sorry if you don't care about any of this. *19:50* But I the first year, much like uh *19:52* Or well, I I was gonna say much like I do now, but that's not true. *19:55* Um did you still have your PS3 hooked up when the PS4 came out? *19:59* Because I definitely did for probably a good *20:02* 18 months to two years, I would say. *20:04* Logan, I I still have my PS3 hooked up and I have a PS5, so yes. *20:06* I mean I st I still have my PS3 hooked up to my main entertainment center now. *20:11* But eventually I put it away in storage at some point. *20:16* Um I also used to have a TV in my a anyway, this is *20:21* Yeah, I don't know. *20:25* I don't know what prompted this. *20:27* Maybe there are podcast documents that we can go refer to and find out. *20:29* But anyway, everything I said previously though still stood true about how like me seeing this game at E3 made me want to play it. *20:34* Apparently the wait for me to actually play it though was five years for some reason. *20:41* I don't know why. *20:46* I don't know. *20:48* Time goes Time's weird when you're younger, I guess. *20:49* Yeah. *20:54* Anyway. *20:56* Uh so this game is good. *20:57* I don't know *21:00* I let's I know we usually start with the story. *21:02* Let's save the story for the end this time, because I uh the story is gonna kinda tee up some things with the next God of War that I would like to touch on before we transition into that episode. *21:05* So let's talk more about the gameplay because gameplay wise, yeah, th th I this is the main reason why this one I think is the best. *21:16* It just *21:24* The gameplay in the uh in a lot of the others has been very tight and very good, but they don't give you the toys that this one gives you. *21:25* And that is why this one is *21:33* Very good. *21:36* Like it like in the past we've talked about how some of these other games give you secondary weapons to use, but more most of the time I feel like when we've talked about our own experience, we're like, oh yeah, I I didn't ever deviate from the chains though. *21:37* I deviated from the chains in this game a decent amount, um, especially when it came to comes to the big old Hercules. *21:48* fists. *21:57* But even outside of that, there's a lot I like even in the final boss with Zeus, I was bouncing between a bunch of like, I think all four different of uh my weapons at one time or another. *21:57* So this game really gives you a lot of things to use, and I think it equally it makes each item unique to the point that *22:07* you feel compelled to use all of the different maybe not all of them, but some different aspects that each of them have to them. *22:16* Um do you agree with that? *22:23* Oh yeah. *22:27* This *22:27* I there's a there's a good chance I used the um the Hercules lion fist more than the blades. *22:29* I was all about them this time around. *22:38* It is *22:40* Your tool set I think is perfect because in the past we've talked about *22:42* Uh in God of War One, like the the Poseidon Magic, the Lightning AoE, like that was our favorite. *22:50* But the rest were were kind of fine or good or you know, who cares? *22:55* Or c heck, even in the the Chains of Olympus episode, we couldn't even remember the magic they gave you because it was just so forgettable. *22:58* And the only side weapon was the gauntlet, which I personally forgot about until the final boss when I was stuck. *23:06* But this game, every power-up stuck with you as you earned them and gained them. *23:12* And I I part of that could be the pacing of it, but also just the design and gameplay elements. *23:19* of these weapons. *23:26* You go from a bow to the head of Helios, which is a stun, but also a flashlight, to uh, you know, weapons like Hades Claws, which *23:27* arguably are just different blades of chaos. *23:38* And then you get to the Hercules fist, which are arguably just different blades of chaos. *23:41* And then you get the uh the sickle *23:46* electric things, which arguably are different blades of chaos. *23:49* So maybe they just figured out that we need to give you different blades with different powers, but they all feel good and have different *23:53* heft to them, some quite literally heavy, and others snappier and electric. *24:00* It just all feels good and the way that they connect them, all of the gameplay, from a grab to a s heavy hit to a light hit. *24:05* Is so fluid and fast and lets you keep the combos going. *24:14* You were talking about how you use the bow to keep combos going at a distance, and then you'd you'd go in and close it off with a different type of weapon. *24:19* Yeah, I think the bow in particular is like one of the best secondary items they've ever given you in any of these games because it really just helps you *24:26* chain together combos that much better. *24:35* It doesn't work well with large groups, except for the the fire. *24:37* It kind of does. *24:40* You can get one person on fire and then they can connect it to other people and that's really cool. *24:41* But uh yeah, is it the bow of Apollo? *24:45* Is that a bow of Apollo? *24:48* Yeah, the bow of Apollo. *24:50* It's I I love that. *24:51* Like it's such a simple thing in practice *24:53* But what's great about it, because they've given you ranged items, we um the ranged abilities like this in the past. *24:56* And this is very similar actually to the magic little ball orb chuck thing that I think you have in uh *25:02* I think it's Chains of Olympus, yeah. *25:10* Um it's pretty similar to that in some ways, but you can obviously fire it way faster and it doesn't use up your *25:12* Your magic meter uses up uses up a totally different meter that they put into this game for the first time, I believe, right? *25:19* Um it technically predated Ghost of Sparta. *25:25* Ghost of Sparta had the fire meter, which wasn't too dissimilar in that concept. *25:28* Yeah, so so yeah, uh I I love the bow. *25:32* I think the bow's great. *25:36* The other thing I wanted to add about uh all the different main weapons though that I liked is that they even have different *25:37* aspects of to each of them that you wouldn't think about. *25:44* Like for instance, I really like that the uh Hades clause, there is like a different uh *25:47* right stick dodge to it. *25:53* Rather than dodging, he like throws the hook and pulls himself somewhere else. *25:55* And you can get a little further aro he he dodges further because of that. *25:58* Um they even like tweak little like ancillary aspects about that that y they wouldn't in the previous games. *26:03* Uh *26:10* And then the other thing is they tie the magic then to the weapons as well. *26:14* So the magic is in an independent system. *26:18* But they tie specific magical abilities to each of them, which prompts you to then that's the one thing that prompted me to switch it up the most, I think, because uh my least favorite weapon of the four is the *26:21* uh electrical whip things. *26:33* I I I couldn't figure out how to use them well. *26:35* I know they're not bad because I've seen people like in walkthroughs using them a lot. *26:37* Um but I just couldn't couldn't get a good grasp on them. *26:41* But the thing I did like was the electric electric shock attack that you can use. *26:44* Um because it was a really good *26:49* It's a good really good way to deal like AoE uh damage to a large group of enemies. *26:51* So I like that and so I would bounce over to that just to use the magical ability on that every now and then and then switch back over to the fists and deal out some more direct damage in that way. *26:56* Like *27:05* I felt like I was using every aspect of my kit in this game for the first time, rather than just being like, oh, they gave me this. *27:06* I don't like that. *27:14* I'm gonna keep using this. *27:15* Because that's what I've done in *27:17* All the other five games up until this point have been that exact thing. *27:18* Um and even when they try to do interesting things like the Spartan arms and Ghost of Sparta or something like that, it's like, okay, this is cool. *27:23* I don't like this though. *27:30* Back to the chains. *27:31* No, I mean everything in this game I feel like got pretty equal use to me, at least to some degree. *27:32* Um I I mainly did the chains and and the fists. *27:40* Um but then I would I would I would loop in the others as well uh occasionally depending on what I needed because they each had really uh unique abilities. *27:43* Especially with the souls, with the with the Hades claws. *27:53* I told you one strategy I used on those, but there are some Seder. *27:57* There's one part in the game we played on hard too. *28:01* There's one part later in the middle of the year. *28:03* Because we continued our platinum journey, which again we have platinumed the game. *28:05* I've almost platinum all of them. *28:10* God of War One is the only one I haven't platinum and it makes me feel kind of bad. *28:12* Easily could do it in three hours on one morning. *28:17* Just like a Saturday. *28:21* It's not hard. *28:24* It's just But that's three hours I could spend on something else. *28:25* No, but it's a platinum, and then you could have all the God of War platinums like me, which I'll have here in a month. *28:29* Maybe. *28:37* Anyway. *28:38* Maybe. *28:38* Yeah. *28:39* Well you didn't you said you didn't know if you were going to, but you should. *28:39* Because the God of War Platinum's good. *28:43* Yeah, like there's one point late late in the game that I was having trouble with where you have to fight *28:45* A big old fire dog, and then they throw three satyrs in the mix. *28:50* And saters in this game are probably the toughest enemy type, I think. *28:54* It's really difficult to kill them and I couldn't do it. *29:00* And I looked up some help online and I found somebody who said, Hey *29:03* Uh one of the souls with your uh Hades chains that you can use because you have I think like nine different souls you can use with the Hades chains. *29:07* Uh they can summon different *29:16* different creatures and different people to come in and do special abilities. *29:19* One of them that you could summon is just a Gorgon who just comes in and freezes things. *29:23* So if you line it up properly, you can get the Satyr's rock solid with the Gorgon. *29:28* You have to be careful though, because that ability is so strong it uses up literally half of your magic bar. *29:34* Like they realize how overtuned that is. *29:39* So you have to be very careful with how you do it. *29:41* Um *29:46* And eventually I got it lined up and I froze the Satyr's rock solid and crushed them and I was like, okay, cool, now I just have to focus this dumb dog. *29:46* Um *29:54* But any but yeah, like there's like anyway, long story short, all the weapons are great. *29:55* They all have different elements that I used at one point or another to help me get to the end of the game. *29:59* Uh yes, very good job on the weapon design this time, Sony Cena Monica. *30:04* Very, very good job. *30:09* Yeah, and it I think that also leads into the just the fluidity of combat. *30:11* I found so typically, you know, you can launch something, you can grab, you're light, you're heavy, and you can jump, and then um *30:17* You know, you could do like L1 square and do maybe your spin attack with the blades or L one triangle, do a heavier thing. *30:26* But then they also added uh *30:32* S something L1 Circle was also a previous combo, but then they added L1X as a rapid switch, like you could just switch to the next weapon instead of punching on the D-pad to keep your combo going without interrupting it. *30:35* Oh my gosh. *30:49* Awesome. *30:51* I loved it. *30:51* And then you, you know, maybe you got a group of enemies coming around you and you stun them all, and then you c grab one with circle. *30:53* And then from that you could either punch them, rip them apart, use them as a battery ram into other enemies, or throw them at other people. *30:59* It just *31:09* There was always an option to do, and those options were always on the face buttons. *31:09* So it was never far out of reach or difficult really to memorize. *31:15* It was accessible. *31:18* And felt really good and fun. *31:21* And I just it it really is the best feeling God of War game that we've played so far. *31:24* And *31:32* I think that's a huge accomplishment considering we've played, you know, five other games. *31:33* Yeah. *31:37* And I I kinda also think that it's really surprising how *31:38* Ascension feels because Ascension. *31:45* Yes, because they really nailed it. *31:49* Like why did I mean they threw it *31:52* I say throw away a little harshly, but they they threw it away because they took multiplayer and then applied it to the single player. *31:55* Yeah. *32:02* And they had to slow things down for multiplayer. *32:03* Which led to more heft, which led to those alternate weapons. *32:06* And they really like had the the combat nailed in this game, and then it's shocking how far Ascension strays from this formula. *32:10* Well, there are a lot of things Ascension does too. *32:19* Like Ascension's way uglier. *32:21* I know we played a PS4 remaster of this game, but even like color palette wise, there's so much more going on in this game. *32:23* Yeah, like *32:30* Ascension's ugly, man. *32:31* That game is just not. *32:32* That game is so weird that it released after this. *32:34* What are we like three years later? *32:37* Right? *32:39* 2013? *32:40* Yep, twenty thirteen. *32:41* There was a quote where a John Height I don't actually know who John Height is in this context, but *32:42* The the quote was at the uh to joystick in January of 2010. *32:48* He said, While God of War 3 will conclude the trilogy, it won't spell the end of the franchise. *32:52* AKA they were in pre-production for *32:57* Ascension. *33:01* I remember them saying this at the time too. *33:02* Other other people I think said it. *33:04* Yeah. *33:05* We're going to be really careful about what we do next. *33:06* And it's just like We're gonna be really careful and by that we're gonna we're gonna adopt the norms of the day, which is multiplayer everything. *33:10* Cause that's basically what they did. *33:20* I I give them props for trying, and then I also give them props for for pivoting away from it when the time came. *33:22* I wonder how uh obviously this is probably very well documented because this game itself is very well documented, the God of War 2018. *33:30* I wonder how quickly they had the idea after this to *33:41* Like go in it go to a different uh pantheon and and use different gods. *33:45* Cause clearly it's a it's something that I think even Cory has talked about that they they obviously had ruminated on for a pretty long time *33:49* And I wonder if it was Ascension kind of sucking that led to them going, okay, let's do that idea now, or if it was like *33:57* something they were kind of working on even behind the scenes throughout Ascension Cycle. *34:05* And again, Corey wasn't at when did Corey go back to Sony Santa Monica? *34:08* Do you happen to know? *34:13* I I do. *34:14* I had the playoffs. *34:14* Because Tomb Raider came out in twenty thirteen as well, I believe, and that he worked on that. *34:15* He he came back in *34:24* Where is this? *34:27* Returns to Santa Monica. *34:28* August of twenty thirteen. *34:29* Okay so this was post dissension. *34:30* But actually speaking of court, he left *34:33* um in November of two thousand seven. *34:36* So just six seven months after God of War II came out, into pre-production on three. *34:41* I watched I watched the documentary. *34:48* This documentary was literally the same crew just stayed there. *34:50* They just shot God of War II documentary and then kept shooting for God of War Three. *34:55* They didn't *34:59* Leave. *35:00* They didn't stop. *35:01* They're really good about documenting this stuff. *35:03* They really are. *35:05* Like they've been doing this for over a decade with their games. *35:06* Well over a decade. *35:10* Like 15 years they've been doing this. *35:11* It's rare to actually see, especially from a big first party developer. *35:13* It's I think it's quite rare for them to be so forthcoming about the development. *35:17* Of their games. *35:22* And so yeah, it's fascinating to just see how they've pivoted both ways. *35:23* I do remember David Jaffe saying his original vision was *35:30* For Zeus to actually die at the end of God of War 2, and God of War Three to be about this power vacuum in *35:35* Uh in Greece and having Egyptian and Norse gods coming in to like fill this vacuum. *35:43* So they were thinking about other pantheons of *35:49* uh mythology, you know, way back in the day. *35:54* It was something they've been toying around with for a while, but they're like, wait, we should probably kill all of the ones in in the current pantheon we're in before we move on elsewhere. *35:57* Before we have this man go fight Odin and Thor. *36:06* Speaking of Thor and Odin, I think another great thing that God of War 3 does, which Ragnarok is also seeming to do, is *36:10* Saving the best for last. *36:19* God of War 2018 teases Thor the entire game, and Odin, but you never actually see them. *36:22* Um except for Thor at the very very very very very end as a tease for Ragnarok. *36:29* And got a big thing. *36:35* You don't actually see him, that's a dream, don't you know? *36:36* But it feels like the future. *36:38* So *36:42* God of War 3 does this as well, right? *36:44* It's we've been waiting the whole series up to this point of uh three games before, so this is technically the fourth. *36:46* We're waiting to fight a Hades p uh Poseidon. *36:54* We we gotta fight Zeus at the end of God of War II, but it it didn't end in a satisfying way. *36:57* Even the Titans to a certain degree, we didn't necessarily think we were gonna fight them per se, but you end up fighting all the Titans as well. *37:03* The game does so good at *37:11* like you were saying earlier, pacing out these bosses. *37:13* I mean you start out by killing one of the big three. *37:15* And then the second boss is the o another one of the big three. *37:18* Yeah, yeah. *37:21* You kill two of your uncles to start this game very quickly. *37:22* But it doesn't that *37:25* Well, yeah, the thing the thing I like is that it doesn't have their sort of like effect on this world feel lost even though they're gone. *37:27* One, because they've died and then the uh things happen because of their deaths *37:35* Uh but I like even like later on that you start toying around like Poseidon's uh area of Mount Olympus, like reminding you like, oh yeah, you killed him earlier, but uh *37:40* This was like a huge dude who had like a whole section of this place that you're in, and so now we're gonna send you to where he was kinda his stomping grounds. *37:51* Um and I really like that uh as well. *37:59* Uh they do a really good job of making you feel like *38:01* This is their home. *38:05* This is where they reside. *38:07* This is where they chill. *38:08* You are an unwelcome intruder in their homes, and you're uprooting all of it. *38:10* And they're very mad about that. *38:16* They do it so well in Hades. *38:18* The whole time you're down in the location. *38:21* Oh, you mean like your fifth trip to Hades in this series? *38:23* Yeah, you know. *38:26* He's the game starts with you falling off another cliff going to Hades *38:27* I was like, oh I forgot about that. *38:31* I forgot that he was the opening like uh outside of Poseidon. *38:34* I forgot that he was like the first main path boss once the game kind of *38:37* Starts after the big grand opening. *38:42* And I I couldn't help but laugh. *38:44* And the whole time you're in there, 80s himself is *38:46* taunting and saying like you're in my domain. *38:49* You even you even pull up Persephone in her coffin, her glass snow white coffin. *38:52* Yeah. *38:57* Witness the end, Spartan. *38:57* Um, you really do feel like you're invading their space and tearing it all down and it's uh it's so satisfying *39:00* Yeah, it they do a really good job of of building all of that up. *39:08* The thing the thing though that I like about each of the gods *39:12* Is that not all of them are these big bosses as well. *39:15* Like you fight Poseidon and it's a huge fight. *39:19* You fight Hades and it's a huge fight. *39:21* But when you *39:23* Find uh Hermes, for example, well he's kind of a ninny. *39:24* You don't really need to go toe-to-toe with him in the way that you would Hades *39:27* So when you do treats, you do go toe to toe with him when you chop his legs off. *39:31* You do, yes. *39:38* But that fight is not uh *39:39* You're not you're not fighting the same way that you did against the other ones who are more powerful. *39:42* It it it it it doesn't try to turn boss fights into *39:47* boss fights for the sake of it. *39:51* Um i it it it actually what it does really well is it respects Kratos' own power. *39:53* Like *39:59* Yeah. *39:59* Kratos is very strong. *40:00* He if he gets a hold of Hermes, it's just gonna be game over the end. *40:01* He does he's not gonna need to go toe-to-toe with this guy because *40:06* He's Kratos. *40:09* He's literally the god of war in this realm. *40:10* He could kill this guy in two seconds if he really wanted to. *40:13* If he can just get a hold of him. *40:17* Helios too, I mean, he gets knocked down by the Titan and you just walk up and *40:18* Kill some enemies and bam, he says Helios is gone. *40:23* He says feel the power of the sun or something, and then like the sunny delight, and then Kratos is just like, I'm just gonna put my hand up in front of my face and that'll that'll do here. *40:26* Um *40:36* But yeah, I I I really I really like that as well because it gives you that satisfaction of, oh, another one off the list, another one off the list, but you're not *40:38* Like when you again later with Hera, she's not like all of a sudden got these crazy powers. *40:47* She's just drunk and sad and angry, and Kratos is like, okay, I'll just kill you and then I'll throw your body in this *40:52* basin I found or pretty much. *40:59* And kind of on the other end of that spectrum, they also know how to make it *41:03* Like truly epic beyond a Poseidon or a Hades. *41:09* Look at Kronos. *41:12* Kronos is still one of the craziest *41:13* fights like just to remember this the quite literal scale of it. *41:18* You are crawling on his arms, in his chest, in his stomach *41:23* It the whole thing, it's just so big. *41:28* Yeah. *41:31* Yeah, they do a really great job with that fight. *41:32* Um the scale of this game overall from minute one is something they really do a great job of as well. *41:34* Um *41:41* Again, putting into context that Kratos is very powerful, but also he's so like in the grand scheme of what he's trying to do here, he is so *41:42* like outmatched you would think on paper. *41:53* Obviously he blows through everything because he's I don't know he's Kratos and he's the protagonist and he has to do that. *41:55* But uh like it makes him seem like he is up against these *42:01* insurmountable odds from the start and the only reason he's able to even get where he's at from the start at the start is because of the help of the Titans. *42:05* And then that whole quick all quickly changes. *42:13* Maybe we can talk about that a little bit more with the story. *42:16* Overall with the bosses though, yeah, I I think *42:20* Boss-wise, this is the best in the series as well. *42:24* Like by far, I think. *42:26* The only boss I wish was different, I guess, is the Scorpion. *42:28* Just because all it is is a giant scorpion? *42:36* Like it didn't feel it's just a scorpion that falls out of the sky and then it's a labyrinth. *42:40* Yeah. *42:46* Narratively, like they tease it a little bit, like Daedalus is talking about it in notes to Icarus, but which is also really good. *42:46* I like that call those callbacks a lot to God of War 2. *42:54* There's callbacks this whole game. *42:58* Yes. *43:00* But the the scorpion just felt out of place. *43:01* It didn't feel Greek. *43:04* It didn't feel God of Wary. *43:06* It *43:09* It just I don't know. *43:10* It just felt weird. *43:11* I wish it could have been different. *43:12* Um Yeah, that's the that's the main one. *43:13* I will say though, I wish *43:16* Zeus's I wish some things went different in Zeus's fight. *43:20* I wish it would have been more of a grand bombastic toe-to-toe *43:24* fight to end the series. *43:31* I I think it's anticlimactic fighting him and basically beating him to like it's not his final forms technically. *43:33* But uh fighting him and pretty much being done with him in in Gaia's chest is kind of like eh like I I do n I I don't care for that. *43:42* I like the idea of Kratos taking both of his biggest foes down at the *43:51* and one fell stab of the blade of Olympus or whatever. *43:56* I like that idea, but I don't I felt like they had built Zeus up so much that he deserved his own just like *43:59* huge bombastic like flying all over the screen, beating the crud out of each other. *44:07* Like what he did at the end of God of War Two, basically. *44:11* Yeah, kind of. *44:14* But they yeah, and I guess they had already done that, so maybe that's why they decided not to do that, maybe *44:15* I 'cause I think Zeus is really a four phase fight when you really think about it, although phase four is really just a cutscene where you interact with some buttons. *44:20* Yeah. *44:29* I think phase one is *44:30* Phase one is that like I'm gonna kill Zeus moment where they turn it into a we joked about it, it's basically like Mortal Kombat, like it's 2D. *44:32* Which they did in God of War II with the silhouette with the other Spartan. *44:42* So they've expanded, but it just that it reminds me a lot of and heck they may even pulled it from it, but it reminds me of the end of Metal Gear Solid 4. *44:46* Where you fight liquid up top, and it's a 2D total fighting game, and you go through each of those arrows. *44:55* That feels awesome. *45:02* Then phase two is where you fight him out. *45:04* Basically, where you fought him in God of War 2 before Gaia shows up and then you go inside for phase three and then phase four is just like spirit floaty form. *45:08* I think phase two is the weakest because it's *45:16* the same as before. *45:19* And I think being fighting inside Gaia, while the fight mechanics are similar in the same out as they were outside *45:21* I think the setting actually lifts that up a lot. *45:30* It does a lot of the heavy lifting. *45:32* Mechanically not so much, but narratively it does, I think. *45:34* Yeah, and then obviously using the blade of Olympus to kill both of them. *45:37* Zeus and Zeus's mother, or surrogate mother, I suppose, the one who raised him. *45:42* It just it it definitely hits. *45:47* Yeah, thematically and storytelling wise, I agree that I think that's a good moment. *45:50* Um *45:54* But yeah, I wish there was a little bit of a bigger dust up just between I would have liked to have seen a moment where kind of kind of like what you get before Gaia shows up where Zeus is looking around and he's like *45:55* You destroyed everything. *46:06* Nothing's left. *46:07* The only thing that's left is for you and me to kill each other right now. *46:08* I really like that setup. *46:11* And then Gaia comes in and is like, no, I'm gonna eat you now. *46:12* And now you're in my belly. *46:17* Uh *46:19* So I I I I l uh yeah, I just like how that was being set up before Gaia kinda intervenes. *46:20* And I I understand that she has to intervene because she's still lingering, you didn't really tie off that part of the story. *46:24* So it it it all makes sense. *46:31* I just I wish they could have found a way to to maybe write Gaia out of it, kill her in that moment, and then really bring it down to literally all that's left is Zeus and Kratos. *46:34* And *46:46* That's it. *46:47* Everything has toppled except for these two. *46:47* Kill each other. *46:51* That would have been a really cool ending. *46:52* But it's not something that I feel like is like a lingering disappointment about the game or anything like that. *46:53* Um *46:59* Want to say I was gonna say, do you want to say anything else about the bosses before we potentially move on? *47:00* Not about the bosses, no. *47:06* I did have just one more thing about gameplay in particular. *47:08* Sure. *47:12* Uh there's a guitar hero game in here? *47:13* There is. *47:17* Yeah, we talked about this uh off-air. *47:19* There's a lot of mishmash of weird mechanics in this game. *47:22* There's the guitar hero game where you have to tune the harp. *47:26* There's what you mentioned earlier with Helios, where you have to like use your hand to block his this the brightness of the sun. *47:31* You have to do QTEs from the per first person perspective of other characters. *47:38* Yes. *47:44* Although *47:44* The p the uh you're talking about Poseidon, I think, specifically. *47:46* Yeah. *47:49* That is awesome. *47:50* I mean let's just the *47:51* Especially I still remember I actually wrote about it for my IGN blog back in the day. *47:54* Like I said God War 3 was one of the best game openings of all time. *47:59* And I I think I'd still stand by that to this day. *48:03* But the moment the first time you play it *48:05* And you it prompts you to push L3 and R3, it's awesome. *48:08* And then the screen thumbs pop out. *48:13* Yeah, that's just so good. *48:16* Because you don't know what's gonna happen at first and then just conk. *48:17* Yeah, it's very good. *48:21* It's good. *48:22* You know, there's that and what was the other the Icarus Ascension where you fly up the chain between. *48:23* So a little bit of the the Pegasus system from God of War 2. *48:31* Just tweaked a bit. *48:35* There's a lot of interesting mechanics. *48:37* The puzzles are still here. *48:40* Uh they're paced, I think, fairly well. *48:41* They're nothing is too complicated. *48:44* It actually. *48:46* They actually feel really good because they give you that moment to breathe before you go kill someone else really cool. *48:48* Yeah. *48:54* Like it it does break it up really well. *48:54* There are a couple other things since we're mentioning more gameplay things, because I'm thinking of things too. *48:56* One thing I wanted to mention before is that they add more ways for you to take down enemies that previously *49:00* were difficult, but uh specifically uh the the one example I think about this specifically is like with the with the digger dudes. *49:06* Uh the dig the guys who can dig underground *49:13* Previously, if they dug underground in the previous games, you just kinda had to wait for them to pop up and then try to dodge it. *49:16* This game you can straight up rip them out of the ground with your chains, which is an awesome. *49:22* Like, I don't feel like you are ever *49:26* Uh for every enemy they throw at you, there's a good way mechanically that you can fight back against them and take them down in some way, shape, or form. *49:29* Which I think is a very good decision because you're not *49:38* standing around waiting, trying to look for an opening like you had like some of the previous games. *49:41* For example, Ascension. *49:46* Remember the big elemental soldiers, if they went into their powered phase, you had to wait for them to cook come out of it. *49:48* Yes. *49:54* Like that's not fun. *49:55* Having options and being able to execute combos and choices, that's what's fun. *49:56* Yes. *50:03* Uh and then the one the one other thing, I told you this the other day when we were talking about the game a little bit. *50:03* Um the one other thing I really like about this game is that they don't remove everything that Kratos has obtained since God of War 2. *50:09* Obviously they have to do a soft *50:19* reset to your health and your magic bars at the start of the game because it's a video game and that always happens and that's just *50:21* I they always have to nerf the main character back to some lesser form of their former selves so that you can gain upgrades and junk like that over the course of the game. *50:29* But they don't remove everything. *50:38* Like you keep the wings from God of War 2, which is a great *50:40* Like 'cause most video games like you you get an item like that in one game and then you go to the next game and it's like, oh, they're not even we're not even gonna make them a part of this game anymore. *50:44* We're gonna totally forget that he even had wings once upon a time. *50:52* No, he keeps 'em and it's like a huge element of the game. *50:55* Uh what's the other thing he carries over? *50:58* Uh oh the blade. *51:00* The blade of Olympus as well. *51:01* Like he's still got that tucked away in his hidden back pocket that he just whips out occasionally. *51:03* Uh he still has the blade on him, and he and that's his uh Spartan Rage ability in this game. *51:10* It's also his finishing move for a handful of the bosses in the game. *51:15* Uh like they don't have him lose these things that he's gained in the previous installment. *51:20* I feel like that's really rare because I can't think of any other games *51:25* Like even name another like something like Metal Gear Solid. *51:30* I I mean that's not as that doesn't deal as much with like iconic weapons or anything like that, but like weapons OSP *51:33* Yeah, but like if if Snake is if Snake ups obtained something in Metal Gear Solid 1 and then in Metal Gear Solid 2 it started off and he's immediately like, hey, I kept this thing from Shadow Moses, like *51:40* Like, I just feel like that stuff doesn't happen in many other games. *51:50* So it's really cool to see them make sure, like, hey, you obtain this stuff over the course of the last game. *51:53* Let's make sure you can keep it. *51:58* Let's make it actual like big part of the game and make it *51:59* there from the outset, not like, oh, Kratos lost his uh Icarus wings. *52:03* Daedless stole them from him because they reminded him of his son, and now he has to kill Daedless. *52:08* To get the wings back or like sure. *52:14* They they didn't do anything dumb like that, like a lot of other people. *52:16* I think a big part of why that is is because this game does pick up *52:20* where God of War II ends. *52:25* There was no time for any of that to go awry. *52:28* Really, the only thing they strip away is giving you a different blades. *52:31* They're technically the blades of exile this time. *52:34* But *52:37* It goes in line with keeping Kratos as powerful as you want him to be. *52:39* Like no one wants to weaken *52:45* Kratos, that feels cheap. *52:47* It feels wrong to strip him of his power unexpectedly. *52:49* I think that's why in God of War 2, when you *52:53* Do you think that's a good thing? *52:56* Pour your energy into a sword. *52:57* Yeah, but that makes sense for Kratos because he's doing it as he's doing it as a power exchange to take down Athena. *52:59* You gotta remember narratively. *53:05* Like that, but if if a lightning bolt struck him and he lost all his power, that would feel cheap. *53:08* But Kratos making the choice and then you actually executing it on the controller *53:13* Make sense narratively and you're in line with it and it doesn't feel cheap later. *53:18* And then you're actually motivated to go and become more powerful *53:22* Which then at by the end of that game you are and that leads you into this momentum and energy. *53:26* So it really *53:33* It's quite good. *53:34* I have to I have to say something. *53:36* I have to chime in with something very funny here. *53:38* And unless my math is wrong *53:40* If you watch, and and we can attach this in the show notes, I just had this pulled up and I just watched it on the side a second ago because I mentioned the God of War 3 remastered and when it was announced and I pulled up the original trailer for it. *53:43* In the trailer for the God of War 3 remaster announcement, it opens up with the words, and the words say 10 legendary years and seven critically acclaimed games. *53:54* The seven games, that means they're counting God of War betrayal, am I wrong? *54:07* No, they absolutely are. *54:12* If you go, no joke, if you go to the God of War website today *54:14* It says there's like a Q and uh FAQ at the bottom, and one of the questions is how many God of War games are there? *54:19* And they say eight. *54:25* They count betrayal. *54:29* Betrayal is canon. *54:31* Sony Sony acknowledges God of War betrayal. *54:32* It's just very funny because it says seven critically acclaimed games. *54:35* I'm like, wait a minute, we're doing episode six of this podcast. *54:38* Which one did we miss? *54:41* I've tried, listeners, I've tried to convince him to play God of War Betrayal. *54:42* He won't do it. *54:48* It's not too difficult. *54:49* You just need a PC. *54:51* Anyway, back to God of War 3. *54:53* Let's talk about this game's aesthetic before we get into the nitty-gritty of the story any further, because there are some *54:56* big things to talk about with uh with the story that I like I said I want to hold over. *55:04* Visually do you have anything that you that really stood out to you about this game? *55:09* I mentioned it before, but I think they do a great job with the of with the color palette in this game. *55:13* Um more so than a lot of the ones previously. *55:18* Um I think there's a lot of I I I think they do a good a l a really good job with the different *55:21* style and look of the various gods that you see in this game and also the different realms in which you come across uh them and like where you see them at and th th their little home areas that you find them in. *55:28* I think they do a really good job with that. *55:39* Um *55:41* And I think the environmental design is like top notch. *55:42* I think most of the areas you're going through in this game are very solid. *55:46* The only thing I think design-wise I don't really understand I *55:49* The labyrinth is always was always a weird section of this game to me. *55:52* I always uh I don't know. *55:55* Is that th that the labyrinth in Greek lore is actually like the giant stone labyrinth. *55:58* Yeah. *56:04* It's like a giant maze. *56:04* And in this game they made it *56:05* large boxes suspended in midair. *56:07* And I never I never really enjoyed that take. *56:10* It felt like a modern *56:13* V l it feels like what Assassin's Creed would do to a Da Vinci invention. *56:16* Maybe, except as in Assassin's Creed, uh *56:22* Odyssey, there is literally a labyrinth side quest you can come across, and there's quite literally a labyrinth in that game. *56:25* And there's a Minotaur at the center of it that you can fight. *56:32* I was thinking more Assassin's Creed 2, like Ezio when he meets Da Vinci type stuff. *56:36* Yeah. *56:40* It just it feels like a modern interpretation of a cool idea that someone could have come up with back in those times. *56:41* It's *56:47* It's unique. *56:48* And I think the labyrinth is the one place that they really could flex that sort of modern creativity because Hades is Hades, Mount Olympus is Mount Olympus. *56:49* Like the labyrinth had creative freedom. *57:00* I did I I mean we've been you've been playing these games up till now on PS Now on your PS5. *57:03* So you've actually been using your PS5 this whole time. *57:11* But I've been playing on the PS3. *57:13* And I want to just say that coming from visually speaking, not hardware-wise or anything like that, but just visually speaking. *57:16* Coming from the lowest of lows, which was Ascension at 720 with an unstable 30, to a rock solid 4K60 HDR game. *57:25* Oh my gosh, I love it so much. *57:34* This game is beautiful. *57:38* It pops. *57:40* Uh, I think adding in the HDR via the PS5 gives it this real *57:41* those brights are bright, those darks are dark. *57:47* It gives it this mood and atmosphere that um you know, I'm not sure if the PS three really would have had that. *57:49* It's uh it's been very long time since I've played the PS three version or even really seen it. *57:57* So it's just visually that front feels great. *58:02* And I think we've mentioned it here in this episode, like Ascension does not look good. *58:05* It's a major step back. *58:11* From this, and I think a big part of it is that art direction. *58:13* This game is it has the spirit of the PS2 games. *58:16* But gives it that realistic but not too realistic look. *58:23* It it gives it the God of War Greek world with the power of the PS3, and it pays off. *58:28* And it *58:35* you know, this game is now over eleven years old and I think it's aged remarkably well. *58:36* It's not one of those games that's like *58:43* we're gonna make Kratos super realistic now because we have all the the cell processor. *58:46* It was we're gonna make God of War three look like God of War should look on a modern H D console in its paid off in spades. *58:51* Yeah, I think as a whole, this series hasn't aged all that poorly, honestly. *59:00* I think a lot of these character action games from the early 2000s have actually aged pretty well, depending on *59:05* Uh which one you might be playing? *59:12* Some of the early uh Devil May Cry games, maybe not as much. *59:14* Um but yeah, I think everything in this series has largely aged pretty well, and this one specifically I can't see feeling *59:18* uh dated or old i for the foreseeable future at all. *59:25* Um I I I feel like this one is really *59:30* Really going to stand the test of time in the coming decade specifically. *59:33* So yeah, I I I think visuals, gameplay, all that stuff, it's it's really top-notch on all those fronts *59:37* Let's talk about the thing we said we were gonna talk about in more in depth this time, which is music. *59:45* Uh if you've listened to this full season so far, you know usually we just kinda *59:50* shrug our shoulders at this point and we say, hey, it's God of War music again. *59:55* And uh we said we were gonna make a more concentrated effort this time to try to focus on *59:59* listening to the songs that are in this game and how we feel about them. *01:00:06* I kind of mentioned at the top what my big takeaway was when we briefly talked about the composers. *01:00:10* But I really did feel like, again, each area of this game had its own unique vibe and tone uh depending on where you were at. *01:00:15* And I think the music that they put together really *01:00:23* match that quite well. *01:00:27* Um I think overall the score there's no single track in this. *01:00:28* These games these first six games as a whole *01:00:34* I don't think the music is bad, but there's nothing in it that like stirs something in me the way that like *01:00:37* Again, looking at the next entry installment in the series, the oh oh uh like I hear the like opening couple notes of God of War twenty eighteen, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm all in. *01:00:44* But like But those notes came from here. *01:00:54* It's just *01:00:57* Restrained back. *01:00:59* It's They did. *01:01:00* And I that's not to say I it's just I guess I should say *01:01:01* They they tried to make a Greek focused soundtrack, and I don't know if I like Greek mu Greek style music. *01:01:07* I think these games what I've said from the start with all of the music in these games is I think it's good for these games. *01:01:15* But I don't really *01:01:23* think it ju I just don't think th this style of this Greek style of music that they went for, um really I yeah, I don't know. *01:01:25* It just doesn't resonate with me. *01:01:34* It's good for the games. *01:01:36* It it matches the games quite well. *01:01:37* But outside of that, yeah, I don't know. *01:01:39* Did you have any larger thoughts this time? *01:01:42* You wrote a lot of notes. *01:01:46* That's just holding up a huge notepad. *01:01:47* Well first of all, all of those notes weren't just the music. *01:01:50* Um it's maybe three-quarters of a page. *01:01:53* It's music for the I should start I should start I I have so many notepads laying around exactly like that. *01:01:56* I should start doing the same thing *01:02:02* I this is all note stuff of just different things that we do. *01:02:04* The music. *01:02:09* Let's just God of War 3 in general. *01:02:11* It's big. *01:02:13* It's loud, it's moving in the sense of energy to keep you moving, just like the game's pacing does. *01:02:15* It's it is in lockstep with *01:02:24* the mechanics here and the narrative and your goals pushing you forward. *01:02:27* It's it is in step with you. *01:02:32* But today I deliberately took normally when I work, I listen to a podcast or I listen to music, but music music with lyrics and things, or video game music, it depends. *01:02:36* But today I deliberately put on the God of War 3 soundtrack and went, alright, I'm taking notes. *01:02:48* Um and my notes aren't all that thrilling. *01:02:55* There are a few songs I like *01:02:57* Um and just kind of my general thoughts, which I've iterated here. *01:02:59* Like the main theme in Swell that you know, the dun dun dun dun dun d and *01:03:03* It just kinda feels mystical, which is in line cause this is Greek myth. *01:03:11* And then you put the choir in and it just feels *01:03:16* It is transportive in that way. *01:03:19* It feels like something you would see or hear in an old movie or imagine in a book or picture alongside it. *01:03:21* It really *01:03:30* I think that the best compliment I can give it is because it is they do go together. *01:03:32* And while the game the music during the gameplay from like *01:03:36* moment to moment or while you're going through the environment, while it doesn't necessarily stand out, those core themes, you know, which I wrote down as *01:03:41* Let's see. *01:03:50* Revenge Falling is one of them. *01:03:51* Like these names don't stand out, you know, you d uh but when you hear it, you go, that's gotta war. *01:03:54* That's gotta war. *01:03:59* And I think that's what *01:04:00* quite powerful about it. *01:04:03* They really do have a unique sound. *01:04:05* And those two three themes *01:04:08* Particularly with the choirs, that's that's the identity of this music. *01:04:12* And when I hear it I get excited, and I think that *01:04:18* While I can't name the songs or always hum it, when I hear it, I know it's about to go down. *01:04:22* And I'm excited about that. *01:04:29* And I think that is *01:04:30* I mean, overall, the legacy of God of Wars music up to this point, and I think what Bear McCreary does with that legacy really honors it in a great way. *01:04:33* And we'll talk about that in the next episode. *01:04:42* For kind of just a brief kind of a an example in another Sony IP, look at Uncharted. *01:04:45* Uncharted one through three was Greg Edmondson. *01:04:53* And then God of War, or I'm sorry, Uncharted for and Lost Legacy was Henry Jackman, who *01:04:56* Does big Hollywood blockbuster m movies. *01:05:03* He did Winter Soldier and a couple other Marvel movies. *01:05:06* And while there's some respect to the original Uncharted trilogy, *01:05:10* Henrik Jackman's music is different, and it does capture the adventure and I like that music a lot. *01:05:16* It's different. *01:05:23* And you can tell. *01:05:24* And it's not a bad different per se. *01:05:26* It's just it's different. *01:05:28* But I do think that God of War 2018, you know, that's God of War. *01:05:30* I watched the the E3 2018 reveal, or I'm sorry, E3 2016 reveal of the 2018 game. *01:05:34* And then they d do you remember that conference? *01:05:41* They opened with an orchestra. *01:05:44* I remember that very clearly. *01:05:47* And you could hear it and *01:05:48* Who knows? *01:05:51* Maybe you didn't know it was God of War because you had only played it a year prior, but like you were like, that's that's God of God of War? *01:05:51* We're playing God of War music? *01:05:59* Like *01:06:01* That's big. *01:06:02* I think when you can get a when you can get a sound that an audience immediately associates with your IP *01:06:03* You've struck gold. *01:06:11* Yeah. *01:06:12* Musically speaking. *01:06:13* And and God of War's done that. *01:06:14* And I feel like through the season we've not been harsh, but we've been dismissive. *01:06:15* Yes. *01:06:20* And *01:06:20* And not intentionally so. *01:06:21* Like I don't think any of these soundtracks are bad. *01:06:22* The thing that I've mentioned before is that none of these soundtracks are really ones that I would want to pop on just for the heck of it. *01:06:26* But at the same time *01:06:34* I wouldn't do that for 95% of game soundtracks. *01:06:36* The only like orchestra-based *01:06:41* video game music that I can think of that I would intentionally go out of my way to listen to is for I'll I'll let you take a guess. *01:06:44* It's the what you listen to? *01:06:52* Like orchestra-based music the for a soundtrack for a video a very popular video game series. *01:06:54* I would say Zelda. *01:07:01* No. *01:07:03* That's a good that's a pretty good one. *01:07:03* Halo. *01:07:05* Halo's the one that I think of. *01:07:05* Yeah. *01:07:08* Oh, which again *01:07:09* Halo's got like the theme. *01:07:12* I mean, when Infinite multiplayer was coming out, people were, you know, tweeting about how the the start screen gives them chills because it's those monks come in. *01:07:14* And then it picks up and they go And we've talked about how the g main God of War theme here throughout this series has felt recycled a little bit too much. *01:07:25* Um, the one thing I'll give it credit for in this game, because they do tweak it a little bit more, they make it sound more menacing than before, which I like. *01:07:36* The previous games, the crew previous games have sounded like this grand, like, almost like adventurous uh type of theme. *01:07:46* This one kind of changes it and makes it and turns it into that turn turns it from that into, oh boy, he coming now. *01:07:55* There that actually was one of the goals because I watched *01:08:03* I swore I was gonna have something to say about the music this time. *01:08:07* I watched the behind-the-scenes music s video specifically that's included with God of War 3. *01:08:10* And they I'm I'm paraphrasing here, but the the quote was along the lines of telling the orchestra players *01:08:16* Any melodic or nice notes that you feel coming on or whatever, don't go there. *01:08:25* Divert. *01:08:32* Go for the brutal. *01:08:32* Go for the hard. *01:08:33* the shocking, the powerful, like go in that direction. *01:08:35* Like that clearly was the aim of this particular soundtrack. *01:08:38* It matches like the box art very well. *01:08:42* Which is just Kratos looking mad, like he's done everything up to this point, and now it's time to roll. *01:08:45* Um And so in that sense, I think even the main theme for this game specifically *01:08:51* uh has been all altered in such a way that is good. *01:08:56* Again, though, but like I couldn't tell you anything about like you mentioned Uncharted. *01:08:59* I couldn't tell you anything about those soundtracks really all that much either other than *01:09:05* Like and so like if we did a series on Uncharted right now, I'd be like, yep, that main theme's still pretty good. *01:09:11* Like I don't know. *01:09:17* Um *01:09:19* I I just yeah, I I don't know. *01:09:20* And it's an it's not like I've not been listening uh over the course of this series. *01:09:22* I I think the music they have in this game is *01:09:26* in all the games is largely quite good. *01:09:28* There was only one that I remember we were like, I don't think this is actually a good soundtrack. *01:09:31* I think it was for may have been for Ascension or for *01:09:35* Let's just pile it all on Ascension. *01:09:39* Yeah, we'll just keep piling it onto Ascension here. *01:09:41* The music though, it's it's it's good. *01:09:44* I I think and we can talk about this more I I think we'll have more to say about the next *01:09:46* Um soundtrack too. *01:09:50* But spoiler alert, the one thing I do like about the God of War 2018 soundtrack a lot more is that there's just a diversity of instruments. *01:09:52* It is not this orchestral choir like, okay, now let's do this big bombastic uh video game score with an orchestra. *01:10:00* Yeah, there's a lot of different things that they fold in there. *01:10:11* um which I like a lot with that. *01:10:15* But anyway, we'll talk about that more next time. *01:10:17* Let's close this out and kind of finalize this discussion talking about the story. *01:10:20* Because there are a lot of things that we have not *01:10:26* Talked about uh with the story. *01:10:29* I don't know where you want to start. *01:10:31* There's some uh *01:10:34* I guess the thing here that we've we've talked about a lot of things I feel like naturally over the course of this game, especially when we talked about the boss fights and things like that. *01:10:36* Um, because those are integral pillars of the story in this game. *01:10:44* I think a lot of the things that happen in the closing moments of this game, um, and it's specifically maybe everything involving Pandora and Kratos as well, is kind of the central *01:10:49* Uh they're the central characters of this game. *01:11:00* How did that all I don't know. *01:11:04* Let's start just with Pandora, I guess. *01:11:07* How did you feel about Kratos and her? *01:11:09* Because *01:11:11* That whole situation feels very forced to me where he just is like, I'm gonna project that this is my dot. *01:11:13* Like he goes from zero to si he goes *01:11:19* Fold Joel Miller in uh the a span of ten minutes in this game. *01:11:21* He that's a really great way to put it. *01:11:26* I I wrote down in my notes *01:11:28* Early in the playthrough, before you even really meet Pandora, I wrote down um not sure if I've ever loved the surrogate daughter in Pandora Angle. *01:11:31* And I said, We shall see. *01:11:40* And I still don't really love it because *01:11:42* It does it goes from 0 to 60, like you said. *01:11:45* He is very dismissive of Pandora until Athena tells him Pandora can remove the flame of Olympus. *01:11:48* then suddenly it pivots not from a I need you to get to Zeus, which is the logical next step, but it shifts from *01:11:57* I will now save and protect you at all costs. *01:12:06* You are my Calliope two. *01:12:08* Calliope two point oh. *01:12:10* It it does feel forced. *01:12:12* It's very quick. *01:12:16* But it leads the moments that come out of it later, specifically in the darkness. *01:12:19* That's like this game I wrote down it. *01:12:27* It feels like they needed a surrogate character for that moment there with like Kratos' like internal shift. *01:12:31* Like who's gonna be somebody that we can finally get to? *01:12:37* Like change him a little bit. *01:12:41* So the game's overall like themes, if you if you had like one or two words that were really the like core theme of God of War 3, it's not vengeance, although marketing would like you to think that. *01:12:43* that. *01:12:54* It's fear and hope. *01:12:54* Like Pandora's box in this game, its context isn't necessarily like the plagues of humanity, but it's it's different emotions. *01:12:56* And when Kratos kills one of the gods, while it does release certain things, it's its emotions. *01:13:04* And in the end, what Kratos has and ultimately gives mankind is not free will per se, but hope. *01:13:10* Which Athena wants to take from them and control. *01:13:16* Which I have thoughts on that. *01:13:20* Let's isn't that. *01:13:23* So it's fear and hope are like the core of this game. *01:13:26* And *01:13:30* ultimately the whole the everything Kratos is does is driven out of regret and fear of what has happened, the choices that he made and the ultimately the killing of his own wife and daughter and it's *01:13:31* He never had hope. *01:13:45* I mean God. *01:13:47* He never I think forgiveness is a big thing too. *01:13:49* He doesn't he doesn't f he doesn't forgive himself for anything he's ever done. *01:13:52* And he has to comes to grip with come to grips with that *01:13:55* Yeah, but he th think back to God of War One. *01:13:59* The the the gods of Olympus have abandoned me. *01:14:02* There is no hope. *01:14:04* And then he tries to commit suicide. *01:14:05* It Kratos has never had *01:14:08* Hope, and ultimately that is given to him through Pandora. *01:14:10* Now, his relationship with Pandora is accelerated very, very quickly. *01:14:14* It doesn't it doesn't have time to breathe, but they pay off in the end. *01:14:19* brings Kratos where he needs to go, not only for where we know he goes in 2018, but to wrap up this trilogy, because this game was treating it like the end of Kratos' story. *01:14:23* they wanted to tie all the knots and and really wrap it up. *01:14:36* And so it just I mean it's *01:14:39* I like Kratos' arc here. *01:14:45* And maybe it's more the arc of the whole series, not the arc of God of War 3. *01:14:47* But I do like where Kratos starts and where he ends. *01:14:53* Uh the other thing we need to have a deeper discussion about I mean everything involving Pandora's box *01:14:58* to and and what that does and oh it corrupted Zeus and that's why he got went off his rocker at the end of God of War 1. *01:15:06* Do you like that, all of that? *01:15:13* Because I think I preferred it where it was just like *01:15:15* Nah, Zeus is just kind of not a great person in general, and they fear and they fear Kratos. *01:15:18* I think it's *01:15:25* There's like the service level of like, oh, he opened the box, which he shouldn't have been able to do and like he got the power to kill a god. *01:15:27* The the power to kill a god is hope. *01:15:33* And what infect like opening Pandora's box released all of those different emotions, and Zeus was afflicted with fear. *01:15:36* And so like I get I like that. *01:15:47* I like that big overarching emotional touch points. *01:15:49* And Pandora's box is a huge *01:15:54* key component of like Greek lore, so I'm fine with that playing like a a a a big role here with these games and having th that event uh from the first game play a larger role because it really is. *01:15:57* Like in in Greek lore I don't remember all of it but *01:16:09* All of the evil and all of the all the bad stuff within the world is like buried in that box and no one's ever supposed to open it ever, if I remember correctly. *01:16:11* Yeah. *01:16:20* Um *01:16:20* And so when he Kratos just kind of flippantly opens it in the first game, he's like, now I'll get big and I'll punch Aries. *01:16:21* Uh they don't really focus on the fact that he opened the box and he probably shouldn't have been able to do that. *01:16:27* And that's why it was *01:16:33* at the center of Kronos' backpack. *01:16:34* Um the they recontextualized that event from the first game in I think a more powerful way. *01:16:37* In the beginning *01:16:43* In God of War One, it's the of the power to kill a god is what he's going there to get, and you're right, he gets big and and rolls around and fights Ares. *01:16:44* But *01:16:52* with God of War 3 kind of shifting the view of the box, while yes, he did get big and all that stuff. *01:16:53* There's magic or whatever, he unleashed *01:17:00* you know, those emotions that I was talking about. *01:17:04* And that alters the gods of Olympus and not just mankind. *01:17:07* And I I really *01:17:12* I like that shift. *01:17:14* I I think it works. *01:17:15* Um It kind of just elevates it a little bit. *01:17:17* Not saying like Kratos is this great character all of a sudden, but it does *01:17:21* I don't it just feels a little bit nicer, more rounded, not shallow. *01:17:26* There's some depth here. *01:17:34* I think the one issue I I do potentially have with it though is that the gods from the beginning were never really portrayed in this world. *01:17:35* as great people. *01:17:43* Ares was clearly not good. *01:17:44* Um and the gods just kind of let him run rampant and do his thing and they never really tried to put him in in any sort of check. *01:17:47* Um so then when Kratos comes into power, it's implied that they fear him and or at least Zeus does, and Zeus doesn't feel comfortable with him being a god and he he tries to *01:17:55* scheme and find a way to undermine his power, but they were also totally fine with Ares just kinda running around unchecked left and right. *01:18:06* Which it me feels like they're enabling him in some sense. *01:18:15* This is the same thing. *01:18:18* This is all shifted in the context of those prequels, because you have to remember there's a prophecy of the marked warrior and all this stuff. *01:18:19* So like Zeus is actively trying to stop *01:18:26* the whole my son will kill me someday like I did with my father. *01:18:28* Well the that kind of that kind of changes *01:18:34* Like the idea that Zeus has been corrupted by the box too is also kind of weird to me because he seems to have like a very personal disdain for Kratos, who is his son, and he like has regrets from the past. *01:18:37* Like, is he just *01:18:50* I don't know. *01:18:51* It it's very strange to me that like had he not been afflicted by the box, like, is there a or are the evils of Pandora's boxes there a part of them that like would have liked to have like *01:18:52* Reconciled with Kratos at some point. *01:19:03* I don't I don't think so because Like there's a lot of different like interpersonal *01:19:05* like relationships that you have to kind of recontextualize and re-examine within this series under the guise of box made people bad. *01:19:11* Um so I don't I don't think it's just box made people bad. *01:19:20* I think I think it *01:19:24* It just leaned into this prophecy that was written into a prequel and it just It wasn't necessarily it wasn't like it took him over and he became like a Sith Lord or something like that. *01:19:26* Like it it just it sowed the fear within him. *01:19:36* that then guided his actions in in the in the in the other games. *01:19:39* Yeah, and you know, Zeus is supposed to be the god of Olympus and to have fear is actually quite *01:19:43* crippling, I think, and Yeah. *01:19:51* You know, they don't really explore like Zeus doesn't have all these like great deep moments in this game or really any *01:19:53* It's all right. *01:20:00* They they try to get a little deeper with the story here at the at the final in the final like fifteen minutes. *01:20:03* And there's a bunch of things. *01:20:08* The other two things I want to talk about. *01:20:09* One involves Kratos and how he goes into the next game. *01:20:11* We'll save that for the end though. *01:20:13* We gotta talk about Athena. *01:20:15* Um I th cause we've talked about her a fair amount over the course of this series, and I I even think in a previous episode we may have talked about some of the things she does here at the end of this game and how she is kind of *01:20:17* Not really the big bad behind it all, but she it's it's shown her hand is shown and she kind of has her she was playing her own cards. *01:20:29* She was she was playing her own game of chess in the background. *01:20:37* Um *01:20:40* I think I've said before, I think I said in an early earlier episode that I've never really liked that. *01:20:41* Um I still don't really like it. *01:20:47* I think um I think the moment he has *01:20:49* And again, we'll see how I feel once we replay the other game. *01:20:54* But like I I've I'm fine with her having her own motives, but I think her own motives are almost too broad. *01:20:57* Like *01:21:05* Oh, hope should be mine and I should give that to people. *01:21:05* What like, huh? *01:21:09* Like like if Kratos is I don't think she wanted to give it to people. *01:21:11* She wanted to control it. *01:21:15* She wanted to give it to the control. *01:21:16* She wanted to control it. *01:21:17* Yeah. *01:21:19* So when Kratos unleashes it for everybody, she obviously doesn't like that. *01:21:20* But it's the other thing too is like hope is such an undefined like *01:21:25* It's like a thematic idea, more so than it is this like tangible thing. *01:21:31* Uh obviously it's implied there's power with it because he kills gods through the power of hope, but also it's not this like *01:21:36* It's not like Kratos has this tangible thing that he is holding on to. *01:21:45* It's it's like this idea in a sense, and so it's a very weird thing that she wants to control this *01:21:50* source of great power that is also supposed to be reflective of Kratos' changing heart at the same time, if that makes any sense. *01:21:58* I can see that. *01:22:07* I uh maybe I'm doing heavy lifting or like interpreting on the game's behalf. *01:22:08* Like maybe I'm just carrying this too far. *01:22:14* But *01:22:16* I look at it kind of like Athena in the context of the series up until her death of in God of War II is *01:22:17* Always has watched out for Kratos seemingly out of positive, you know, angles, not necessarily for evil purposes. *01:22:27* Like she's been the only one in his corner. *01:22:35* Yeah. *01:22:37* And *01:22:37* She's also kind of been second fiddle to a lot of the other gods. *01:22:38* Ares was taking over Athens, her town, and um, you know, Zeus and her have disagreements and things like that. *01:22:42* You know, and ultimately she tries to save Zeus in a limb. *01:22:51* Like she serves Zeus, and like I've mentioned in a previous episode, when she died, she ascended to that higher power. *01:22:54* And she could have been like the one, the one in control of everything. *01:23:03* She could have been the God, not just a god, but the god. *01:23:08* Now, I don't necessarily know why like, you know, maybe it's because she was a nice lady or whatever, but I don't know why other gods aren't in that *01:23:13* ethereal plane with her. *01:23:21* Yeah. *01:23:22* Obviously that's not explained, but just accepting that part at face value, like she finally had an opportunity to be the one in control. *01:23:23* And I think she thought she could manipulate Kratos like she has been to a certain extent the whole time. *01:23:31* And, you know, she's trying to be the puppet master and it it ultimately doesn't pan out for her in the end. *01:23:38* And it's *01:23:44* You know, Kratos didn't stab himself because he wanted to give mankind hope. *01:23:45* Kratos stabbed himself because he was done being used and a servant, and he was *01:23:51* He was done. *01:23:58* Um, and it wasn't out of a place of I have no hope I'm done. *01:23:59* It was uh out of a place of I'm done and I want to go be with my *01:24:02* wife and daughter done. *01:24:07* Like I've my job is I can go rest. *01:24:09* It's, you know, Steve Rogers at the end of uh endgame. *01:24:12* Like I've I've deserved this now. *01:24:16* Ultimately *01:24:18* he doesn't die for whatever reason and uh goes on, but you know, I I like it, and again, I'm also carrying a little bit of twenty eighteen. *01:24:19* into this because Athena's though is that you're right, she is trying to be this puppet master and have control of these things. *01:24:31* But even at the end of the game, she's like surprised by how things have played out and like, oh, I didn't expect you to retain the power of hope. *01:24:42* Why why why don't I ha like *01:24:50* She's trying to play Puppet Master with something that she doesn't fully understand herself, which I guess is not. *01:24:52* She thought it was in the box. *01:24:58* She didn't realize that it was inside Kratos, which is, you know, things other movies do. *01:25:00* It's like *01:25:04* Oh, the power was actually here, or it was in this gem, or it was the spirit was in you, not in this object. *01:25:05* Um, one of those types of switches. *01:25:13* It just she didn't expect it, but she wasn't *01:25:15* like clueless like she she wanted she basically was like give it to me Kratos yeah and Kratos was like *01:25:18* So Kratos. *01:25:27* Uh he's finished everything that he wants to do. *01:25:29* By the end of this game, the next time we see him, he's a much different person. *01:25:34* Do you the game obviously tries to set up a lot of where he's going in the final about 10 minutes of this game? *01:25:40* Maybe you could say even with the relationship with Pandora, it tries to show that he still has like a softer side to him as well. *01:25:48* And that he doesn't need he doesn't want to be this brute all the time, but everything he *01:25:55* cares for even a little bit gets ripped away from him at one point or another. *01:26:00* Um do you think the game does a good job of setting up where we know that he goes in the future? *01:26:04* I think so, yes. *01:26:13* Because and I, you know, I'm sure part of it is because we've played all of the this era of God of War back to back to back. *01:26:15* All very close to each other in the last couple of months, but you know, especially really coming after Chains of Olympus, like shoving Calliope away, which was a moment I really disliked. *01:26:25* Having him be dead again for the fifth time or whatever. *01:26:38* The darkness and finding his wife and daughter. *01:26:45* And embracing them again, which he does in God of War One, but this time forgiving himself, which is the thing he kept asking the gods for. *01:26:50* you know, get rid of these nightmares for me. *01:27:01* Like forgive me, please. *01:27:03* I've done my part. *01:27:05* Like he does it himself. *01:27:06* He realizes he has the power to forgive himself, I think, is and have hope for the future in his own life. *01:27:07* But I think it's actually pretty powerful. *01:27:16* It's definitely a high moment for Kratos as far as emotionally speaking. *01:27:19* It kind of reminded me of them up to the same. *01:27:22* I know, I know. *01:27:25* And it it reminded me a little bit of *01:27:26* Like the sorrow fight in MGS3, like wading through there was one part in the darkness where you were like swimming in blood of your enemies or whatever. *01:27:29* Yeah, you know, not quite as like cool or good as the sorrow, but this moment of like really soaking in every wrong that Kratos has done and and why forgiving himself for it. *01:27:40* And even in his death, or self-stabbing, I suppose, because he doesn't die, you know, the end of the credits shows that he is crawled away. *01:27:52* And I even think that is a sign of hope. *01:28:03* Like he even he had hope in that moment for the rest of his life. *01:28:05* And it would always be. *01:28:09* He jumps off another cliff for again like the fifth. *01:28:10* Yeah, but it ultimately leads to him *01:28:13* Finding a new partner and having a son, who we know he cares immensely for. *01:28:16* Again, this is with our knowledge of where it all goes, but *01:28:23* Taking that into context, I think it's it's actually a really strong ending for this phase of Kratos' story. *01:28:29* Yeah, I think I I like everything they do in the darkness where they make you revisit everything again. *01:28:37* Uh which felt a little too trite to be totally honest. *01:28:46* Like, hey, you want to see uh Kratos' wife and daughter die for the 80th time in the series? *01:28:50* It felt like Uncle Ben getting shot by the end of *01:28:56* By the end of God of War Three it's like, okay, we know. *01:28:59* But they do make you revisit it one more time, but they it feels like there's actually character development with it this time for the first time ever, rather than him just being like, Oh, I'm still tortured by this. *01:29:01* Somebody help me *01:29:12* He actually kind of re-examines the situation as like I I and and with some help from Pandora learns how to kind of finally resolve it internally. *01:29:13* Um the my problem with that is he doesn't seem to maybe not my problem that whole sick that whole uh darkness section is more *01:29:24* Metaphorical, sort of, it feels like, or maybe not metaphorical, but it's not something that he actively remembers. *01:29:34* Uh, because he wakes up and he immediately kind of acknowledges that he doesn't know *01:29:40* uh exactly why things are ha he says something that uh he doesn't know what's going on or why he feels a certain way, I think. *01:29:45* Do you do you remember what I'm talking about? *01:29:52* A little bit. *01:29:54* He c he says something along those lines to kind of acknowledge that he doesn't really remember the events that the player has just experienced. *01:29:55* But clearly he's been affected by it to the degree that yeah, like once Zeus is dead, he uh stabs himself or you think he's killing himself, but he doesn't. *01:30:03* And he's just kind of reached his endpoint. *01:30:13* He wants to move on and get a fresh start. *01:30:15* And I think that's all good. *01:30:17* And yeah, that establishes pretty well where he's going in the future. *01:30:19* I don't know how much time is between God of War and God of War 3. *01:30:22* Maybe we can figure that out. *01:30:27* I know we've got a whole timeline here pulled up. *01:30:29* Um, I guess the best thing I can say is that this does feel like a good the end of God of War 3 feels like a good starting point for where we know he goes in the future. *01:30:32* Because obviously by the time *01:30:42* This game ends, he's not going to be dad Kratos that we know he is in the next game. *01:30:44* Um, because in fact, dad Kratos in the next game is still very much this Kratos. *01:30:50* here and he has to keep this part of himself in check and like keep this version of himself from coming out in that game, um, which I still like a lot. *01:30:56* And quite interesting enough, he's ki to a degree consumed by fear in twenty eighteen. *01:31:06* Yeah. *01:31:14* Fear of he is. *01:31:14* Being a terrible father and all sorts of people knowing who he is. *01:31:16* Yeah, and a fear of uh his son killing him. *01:31:21* So *01:31:25* You know, lots of things. *01:31:26* The timeline, uh uh Wikipedia just says many years. *01:31:28* Uh someone on Reddit speculates uh 1500. *01:31:32* So, you know, whatever. *01:31:35* I mean, yeah, I I guess fifteen hundred years would allow your a gaping hole in your chest to heal up over that period of time. *01:31:38* Uh *01:31:45* No, that would I don't know if it's 1500 years. *01:31:46* It's it's a it's quite a long time, but he has to yeah, this feels like a good at least starting point and a good first step for where we know he ends up *01:31:49* Um and thematically they start to set those things up pretty well on a T. *01:31:58* The final ten minutes of this game really sets up on a T the next game nice. *01:32:04* And it makes me that much more excited that we are doing that one next. *01:32:07* I don't know, is there anything else you want to chime in about with God of War 3 here *01:32:13* Or the Greek uh a larger discussion of these Greek games as a whole. *01:32:18* No, I think we've I think we've uh *01:32:23* This is a longer episode than normal. *01:32:26* This is uh I think our longest episode. *01:32:28* I think it is. *01:32:30* Yeah, I feel like this is our longest episode we've done so far, but uh there's a lot to cover in this game, and I I think we really *01:32:31* Touched on quite a bit of it and did so well. *01:32:38* So yeah, that's the end of episode six of season two of chapter select all about God of War Three *01:32:42* Um and as I mentioned, next time around will be our quote unquote final episode of this season. *01:32:49* I say I say that because we as we've mentioned before, when Ragnarok comes out, we will be adding and *01:32:56* an amended eighth episode to this season at some point in twenty twenty two. *01:33:03* We will be fingers crossed that it comes out next year. *01:33:07* Wow, it's almost twenty twenty-two and that game is gonna come out in that year. *01:33:10* That's a really cool thing *01:33:14* It's supposed to come out. *01:33:16* Anyway. *01:33:17* So we'll we'll be adding a Ragnarok episode at some point in the near future, but episode seven will be all about God of Ward. *01:33:18* twenty eighteen, which we have intentionally left to the end, and I think our discussion on that game will be very good, because as I have said before, I like that game a lot. *01:33:24* That's one of my favorite games ever, and there's a lot to dig into with that one *01:33:33* So be sure to come back around next time as we dive into that game. *01:33:37* But as for this episode, thank you again for listening. *01:33:41* If you want to keep following along with all of our other *01:33:44* uh doings here at chapter select you can follow us on twitter at chapter select uh we also encourage you to subscribe or leave a review in whatever podcast feed you might be uh listening to the show on *01:33:47* You can also check out the show on YouTube as well. *01:34:00* Max puts together a great video edit for all of these episodes as well that I would encourage you to, at the very least, if you don't want to watch or listen to the whole thing that way, just go check it out *01:34:02* Because he does a very good job with those and he includes a lot of Easter eggs in those episodes that I don't think people will ever see. *01:34:12* I just send Logan all the jokes, basically. *01:34:19* Yeah, Max tucks away a lot of really good jokes in in those *01:34:22* Those video versions of these episodes. *01:34:26* Um, so I encourage you to go check those out. *01:34:28* Um, but yeah, otherwise you can follow us on Twitter. *01:34:31* Uh Max is at Max Roberts143, and I am at *01:34:34* More man12. *01:34:38* I almost said Max the White. *01:34:39* No, I am at More Man12 on Twitter. *01:34:40* Max the White no longer exists. *01:34:43* But that's everything for this episode. *01:34:45* Uh thank you so much for listening. *01:34:47* And we will be back here next time to close out season two with God of War. *01:34:50* Until then, bye-bye. *01:34:54* Adios. *01:34:56* Chapter Select is a max frequency production. *01:34:58* This episode was Research Produced and Edited by Me, Max Roberts. *01:35:01* Season two is hosted by Logan Moore and myself. *01:35:05* And it's all about God of War. *01:35:09* For more on this season, go to chapterselect. *01:35:11* com forward slash season two. *01:35:14* To check out previous seasons, go to chapterselect. *01:35:16* com. *01:35:20* I never went all out like I did for God of War Ascension. *01:35:24* That's that's pretty funny. *01:35:28* I can't believe you you *01:35:29* I didn't know you were that big of a God of War junkie. *01:35:31* Oh, I I love God of War games. *01:35:34* I s two is my favorite, followed by Ghost of Sparta. *01:35:36* Like they're they can be pretty good games. *01:35:39* I mean it's essentially square and triangle the whole way through. *01:35:41* But they're pretty fun. *01:35:44* They are fun. *01:35:46* I played through the series recently. *01:35:46* I like it a lot. *01:35:48* Um Yeah, I'm huge on I'm excited to see what four looks like. *01:35:49* Uh yeah, I I I I think we're I think it's safe to say that they'll probably get shown off next week and uh I'm excited to see it as well. *01:35:53* I I it need it needs a little bit of variety in the series. *01:36:00* We won't get too deep into a God of War discussion, but they need to just mix it up a little bit. *01:36:04* We'll see. *01:36:09* We'll see what they do, but yeah, all out for God of War Ascension. *01:36:09*