# Chapter Select, [[S2E8 - God of War - Ragnarök Predictions]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome to a very special episode of Chapter Select, which is not a normal episode. *00:00* Hence the special that I put in front of that word. *00:08* Uh we're gonna do a God of War Ragnarok predictions episode. *00:11* So if you're listening to we're gonna put this in our season two feed. *00:15* So if you are a listener of our show *00:18* Uh we have broken down every single game in the God of War franchise over the course of this season, uh but at the time we have ended it, God of War Ragnarok has not come out yet, and we're now naturally very excited to play that video game that is supposed to come out. *00:20* At some point in 2022. *00:35* Uh hopefully. *00:37* Hopefully. *00:39* Max Roberts is here. *00:39* I'll intro Max first. *00:40* Hi, Max. *00:42* Hi. *00:44* Logan, does that mean I can introduce you, Logan Moore? *00:44* Yeah, I'm Logan Moore. *00:47* I didn't I didn't say that either. *00:49* Uh coming out of the gate really awkward in this one. *00:51* Anyway. *00:54* Uh so to give you a breakdown of what this is, um we've finished playing all the God of War games at the time we're recording this. *00:55* Uh so you know exactly what is up here, we're recording this in December 2021. *01:02* Uh I do not know when this episode will go live. *01:08* At the time we are recording this, there is one trailer out for God I guess technically two. *01:11* There's the teaser out for God of War Ragnarok, and then there's the first trailer for the game. *01:16* Uh so we have now finished playing all of them, and like I said, we have a lot of thoughts, ideas and predictions about what we want to see happen in the next game, and we just felt like putting together a short episode here to kind of theorize about what we think the next. *01:20* installment in the franchise will do. *01:34* So that's what this episode is. *01:37* I personally also just like the idea of a time capsule. *01:39* I think *01:42* putting millennial gaming speak back up and discovering little treasure troves of things that we said or did has really kind of inspired me to try and keep that stuff going forward because it's fun to look back. *01:44* I mean, listening to that episode where we talked about the God of War reveal at E3 2016 is hilarious to me in hindsight, where I was like, I hope there are no side quests. *01:55* I hope there's no *02:06* Well, I was right about the open world thing. *02:08* Um, but you were like, this is an RPG open world, and I'm like, well, I don't know, it sounds like God war to me, that's a bad idea. *02:10* And obviously it turned out to be great. *02:17* We definitely know have a general idea of what this game is going to be. *02:25* Yes we do. *02:28* I think um a lot of our biggest questions *02:29* mainly lie with story-related stuff. *02:32* Um, because we already have a good idea just from this first trailer of how it's even going to play, which is very similarly to the last one, but I'll I'll even mix in some gameplay things too. *02:34* So what we're going to do *02:43* Uh w I mean the this episode will probably break down over the course of how however long it lasts. *02:45* That's probably gonna be hilarious because if you're looking at how long this episode lasts, it's probably like an hour or something, but I'm gonna guess. *02:54* Anyway. *03:00* Who knows? *03:00* Uh *03:01* I'm just gonna throw out some rapid question or some random questions related to the events of God of War Ragnarok, and we'll discuss whether or not we think these things could happen or not in the game, at least as a starting point for this conversation. *03:02* So Max first question. *03:15* I mean we've talked about this you and I, but I feel like this is the best place to start. *03:18* Will Kratos die in Ragnarok? *03:21* No. *03:25* No, I I don't think so either. *03:26* We've we've agreed on this for a long time. *03:27* You and I have agreed on this for a long time. *03:29* I think we've actually talked about it over the course of this season too. *03:31* If they kill Kratos, I feel like that kills off the franchise. *03:34* Like there is no this isn't something where they can just naturally hand it off to Atreus in my mind and just keep the God of War series going. *03:37* And so because of that, I don't see them doing that. *03:45* I think the other reason they won't kill him off is because, as we talked about at the end of this season of Chapter Select, God of War 2018 is the best-selling PlayStation game in history. *03:49* So to kill Kratos off all the in the game right after that almost damages the future of the franchise going forward. *04:00* And I got news for you, Sony is not gonna want that to happen. *04:07* I think there's too many *04:10* There's too many hands in this now, potentially, with with this next one, for them to give full creative control to Sony Santa Monica if Sony Santa Monica did or maybe maybe maybe they would allow Sony Santa Monica to kill them off. *04:12* Well let's *04:26* Let's look at some previous Sony examples too, to uh uh possibly give Sony San Mic an out to kill Kratos, something I don't think they'll do. *04:27* Uh Sony let them let Naughty Dog stop Uncharted. *04:37* With Uncharted 4, Nathan Drake's story ended, quotes, and then the caveat that the last legacy *04:42* Well that came with the caveat that they had released a new IP that outsold Uncharted right before they closed Uncharted. *04:50* So *04:57* Well, um what I'm saying is. *04:58* It's like they knew they could fall back on something else right away, because I think if Naughty Dog goes to Sony a couple years prior and says, Hey, we're gonna end uncharted. *04:59* Make some excess and do what? *05:07* Well, they also, you know, lost legacy and now those games are being ported to PS5. *05:09* Obviously, that's gonna do really well. *05:15* S Sony Santomonic with God of War itself, they kill killed Kratos at the end of God of War 3 and made a prequel. *05:18* I'm not saying extra move here, but *05:25* Well going back to Noddiog for a second, this is a good point. *05:28* Um I guess the way they could do it, and this is gonna be out of order compared to how you mentioned like they retired The Last of Us, or at least semi-retired it for the moment. *05:30* Is Sony Santa Monica is clearly working on something else right now. *05:39* Corey Barlog is directing another project within that studio. *05:42* Yep. *05:46* And he's been pretty upfront about that. *05:46* Or I don't know if he has said I'm directing another project, but he has said I'm doing things at this studio that I can't talk about. *05:48* Which he's a director, it's a studio. *05:55* He's doing something else. *05:58* So they do have something else going on at that company for the first time in *05:59* A really long time? *06:04* So if they're 2012, 2013. *06:05* Yeah, and so if that turns out well, then in theory, they could retire God of War here for the time being *06:09* Do that next project, and then if that next project is a huge success, then the whole studio could just keep working on that thing in perpetuity with a sequel or something like that. *06:16* But I don't think that Gorilla. *06:27* They did Killzone Shadowfall at the launch of the PS4 and then they went I mean they were in production and then they put out Horizon. *06:30* And clearly they have pivoted to a all-horizon studio with multiplayer spinoff games in the works and Sony's acquiring new studios. *06:37* Like God of War doesn't have to go away. *06:45* It can go on hiatus or pause. *06:47* But *06:50* Don't forget, Sony owns the IP, they can make a God of War game. *06:51* It's just will they, you know, will the original creators be behind it? *06:55* And God of War itself has had other studios touch the franchise and make some really good games. *06:59* So but will Kratos die? *07:05* No. *07:09* There's no way. *07:09* This I don't think so. *07:10* Yeah and you know *07:11* Oh what about the the mural at the end? *07:13* It clearly shows a snake. *07:15* So that no that was gonna be my next question. *07:16* So what do you think the mural at the end of the last game then *07:18* Hints to. *07:22* Do you think it hints do you think it's gonna be a kind of a red herring, sort of with how God of War II was *07:23* with Kratos dying, but not really. *07:30* My fate is my own. *07:32* I can decide what I am going to do. *07:33* Or the other thing I texted you about this the other day. *07:35* When you replay God of War, you notice that that second wall that they are inspecting has actually been like shattered and destroyed. *07:38* Was it destroyed because *07:45* the events written on that wall were incorrect and somebody felt that that wall needed to be destroyed because the future wasn't going to play out that way. *07:47* This is a very inside baseball conversation we're having here. *07:55* For those who may not be aware, at the very end of God of War, they see their entire journey uh on the wall of uh Jotunheim. *07:58* On a wall in Jotunheim. *08:07* Everything that happened over the course of the game was foretold. *08:08* And then they see Kratos dying on the wall as well. *08:11* Or Kratos sees himself dying on the wall as well. *08:13* Hinting that this is something that is foretold to happen as well. *08:17* On that specific wall, though *08:20* Everything around it is shattered and destroyed other than that one panel. *08:22* So to mean that says was it shattered or destroyed intentionally or accidentally? *08:27* Or what's the dealer? *08:32* Anyway. *08:33* Yeah. *08:34* What do you think? *08:35* Oh to quote Kratos, there's nothing that is written that cannot be unwritten. *08:36* So, yeah, I I I don't believe that will come true in the sense of the way it is depicted, of you know, the world serpent coming out of Kratos' mouth. *08:44* Um, or you know, looks like that. *08:55* As far as like the panel stuff being destroyed, there's so many possibilities. *08:58* The one I kinda like in my own brain is that Faye destroyed it. *09:03* She obviously had been there. *09:08* Or at least we think she was. *09:10* I think Gatreus says something along those lines that she was there there. *09:11* And obviously she wanted her ashes spread there. *09:16* Probably bad significance. *09:19* But I you know, she could have destroyed it. *09:21* I like that idea that she didn't quite like how *09:24* Their fate was sealed, but also, you know, their whole prophecy, that whole end mural, is also on the giant rock by their house at the beginning of the game that you use to smash Baldur's face in. *09:28* So Faye was always near and constantly reminded of their um you know their prophecy, their future. *09:41* So *09:49* I think one thing about the ending and them seeing that stuff shown on the panel, the one thing I've gathered from the trailer that they've released so far is that Atreus has a line *09:50* And it lo that he says, like, we need to not be in this forest. *10:00* I need to we need to go out there and find out who I am, who Loki is. *10:03* To mean that says he's really been thrown off by what he has seen on those panels, because it tells him that he knows *10:07* something about his life has been like foretold to happen and he knows he has like a greater thing in his life that he's supposed to do. *10:14* I think he's really caught up in his head. *10:21* about like I am this low-key person and I'm supposed to do something and the reason I know I'm supposed to do something is because we saw it on those *10:23* Walls and Jotunheim. *10:31* I I think he's getting really tripped up by that. *10:33* It's one of those classic feature foretold kind of stories where *10:35* Well, if you know what's gonna happen to you in the future, what do you do? *10:40* And usually what you do to change or alter that future is what causes that future to happen. *10:44* Yep. *10:49* Kind of like Terminator, you know. *10:49* Terminator wouldn't have happened if they didn't send the Terminator back in time. *10:52* That type of stuff. *10:55* So that totally could play out uh that way. *10:56* It's *11:00* That trailer though is interesting because it sounds like Atreus slash Loki is at least initially approaching it from a place of helping people. *11:01* instead of, you know, trying to destroy the All Father and Thor. *11:13* So I'm curious to see his arc in this game. *11:18* He clearly, you know, wants to figure out who he is. *11:21* He's in that *11:25* young adult phase of trying to figure out his identity and he just had yet another secret thrust on him at the end of this game. *11:26* Over the course of this game he went from *11:34* I am a human to I am a God to I am a God giant. *11:36* And we kind of leave off on the giant reveal. *11:42* And we're gonna pick up a couple years later. *11:45* Mm-hmm. *11:47* So what do you think his ultimate fate will be in the next game *11:48* Because I can't see him dying either. *11:53* Atreus. *11:55* I can't see Atreus dying either. *11:56* If we have to watch Kratos watch somebody else in his family die or something. *11:57* Like that just seems too *12:01* I feel like Tr Atreus and Kratos have some major plot armor on, but I will say I don't know if Atreus gets out of the other side of this game as *12:03* just Atreus. *12:12* I mean, he's not just gonna be normal Atreus as we know him now. *12:13* He's gonna be very he'll be a little yeah, he'll be very, very different by the end of this game for sure. *12:16* Yeah. *12:22* Its *12:22* In Norse mythology, so much happens to Loki. *12:25* There's the Ragnarok kicks like the stuff that leads into Ragnarok, like he's tortured. *12:29* for a very long time, very traumatically, like that could happen, maybe not as severe or as long, but *12:36* There's a lot of he turns into a salmon. *12:44* Okay, so let me let me ask you a few quick hits with Loki. *12:48* Will he transform into animals? *12:51* Yes, he has to. *12:53* There's a line in the game where he's like, Can I transform into animals? *12:55* Yeah *13:06* Yeah, that was the first thing I was gonna ask you actually. *13:06* Loki's gonna turn into all sorts of stuff. *13:10* Uh will he birth the world serpent? *13:14* That's the one this is the one I don't know about. *13:17* Because well, Loki *13:22* is also like is father and mother to all of the creatures that he bears that bring forth the end of bring b forth Ragnarok. *13:26* Um *13:35* But like Angry Boda is also the mother in certain of these relationships. *13:36* And I have a really hard time picturing them like showing Atreus and Angry Boda like banging and out. *13:41* Yeah, well, especially since they're still portrayed as yik as like teenagers in this game. *13:48* Yeah. *13:52* So I like clearly they don't have a problem shifting Norse mythology around to fit their narrative. *13:53* Which I'm all for. *13:59* So I'm curious how their relationship brings forth creatures like hell and the world serpent and um the wolf. *14:00* The big wolf thing that eats Tears hand. *14:11* Fenrir? *14:14* Yes. *14:15* I think that's its name. *14:17* So I'm curious how that relationship *14:18* Brings forth those creatures, so will Atreus like vomit up the world serpent. *14:21* I think the one important thing to note here in this discussion too, especially if you're not aware of this, uh everything has to happen in this game because they have already said this is the final Norse game. *14:30* So if you're not aware of that, like there's not going to be any setup for a third entry. *14:41* Like everything has to come to a head. *14:45* No third Norse entry. *14:47* Yeah, everything has to happen in this game that is gonna happen involving God of War and the Norse Pantheon. *14:49* So some of this stuff might seem like, oh well maybe he won't give birth in this game and it'll happen in the next *14:56* It it has to happen in this game based on what we've been told so far. *15:03* Ragnarok. *15:07* Yeah, so everything has to come to an end. *15:08* Yeah. *15:10* Um yeah *15:11* Will Thor face off against Jormangander? *15:14* If they don't show that fight and show the world surfing being sent back in time, they screwed up. *15:19* I think that I my prediction, I think that happens extremely early in the game. *15:25* I'd say like opening three hours, that's gonna happen. *15:32* But that's gonna rock. *15:35* I think that's gonna set into emotion a lot of things that happen in the game though, potentially. *15:38* Mmm, that's an interesting theory. *15:44* I would not peg that as early. *15:48* Because what could happen is I could think they could write the *15:51* World serpent out of the game, so that then when a tra if a trace births it later on it's like a huge deal when it shows back up *15:54* That's my thought process with this. *16:02* I could see that. *16:04* I could see that I think that has to happen though. *16:06* The problem though is that I guess the problem with this prediction is that uh *16:09* Is that I feel like we have to see Thor a bit first before he is immediately full-blown thrown into combat. *16:14* But at the same time, the other reason why I also believe that this is like on both sides of this, I'm I'm like arguing with myself about this. *16:20* I think the best way to show Thor's power from the get-go, because I think they're gonna want to really serpent. *16:26* Yeah, I think they're really gonna wanna introduce Thor and make you know right away. *16:31* This is this guy is unlike anybody else Kratos has faced off against ever, even compared to anybody from the Greek Pantheon. *16:36* And if he comes in and just wallops the world serpent *16:43* That could be that could be very interesting. *16:47* Yeah. *16:51* But it's just that fight also is supposed to like splinter Yigdrasil, the world tree. *16:52* Which is why um the World Serpent gets set back. *17:01* So that could have ramific there's just *17:07* Feels like that feels like a lot of world destructive stuff to happen on the front end of the game before you're like, let's go find tear. *17:09* Well well here here's how I think it involve it it can play forward *17:19* Is time travel involved in this game? *17:23* I mean it literally has to be, cause *17:27* World Serpent is set back in time. *17:31* Now the question The other reason for people the other reason for people, yeah, to to explain the context around this a little bit, they've already kind of set up in the previous game that there are some weird time things that are gonna be at play. *17:32* The world serpent recognizes Atreus. *17:43* It's so good. *17:46* Even though they've never met before, which means they know each other from s somehow he recognizes his dad. *17:47* Maybe I don't know. *17:56* There's a lot happening here. *17:58* Maybe maybe Thor fights a version of the world serpent. *17:59* That is the one that Atreus has pr recently birthed. *18:05* It's not the massive one. *18:09* Maybe he's fighting like baby world serpents. *18:11* And they square off against each other. *18:13* And then he sends that one back in time. *18:15* And then it grows up into the one that we see. *18:18* That's a that's a good theory. *18:20* Something like that. *18:22* Yeah. *18:24* I'm trying to th I' there I'm trying to find ways to make all of these things work because there are things that we've been told from this game that are *18:24* supposed to happen. *18:31* Um sticking with Thor for a second, will Kratos wield Mjolnir? *18:33* I mean again, if he doesn't *18:39* They screwed up. *18:41* He has to. *18:42* If it it would be like watching Avengers Endgame and Cap didn't pick up Mignol year. *18:43* I feel like the first half of this game is gonna be all Thor, and then the second half will be all Odin. *18:50* That is kind of my thinking with how they're gonna structure this. *18:56* Freya. *19:01* I'm not forgetting Freya. *19:03* I think Freya does she fit in this? *19:04* I think Freya so there's a larger discussion around Freya that we can do. *19:07* Do you want to just save her for a little bit later? *19:11* Yeah, we'll tuck her away because I have some specific questions associated with her. *19:12* Okay. *19:16* Kratos has to wield Mjolnir though. *19:16* Like it's so just duh obvious. *19:18* Not only, and I'm not talking just in a cutscene, I'm talking like this will be the third weapon they add to the game *19:22* for more diversity in combat. *19:29* Sure. *19:31* In fact, they could they could they could I'll I'll say something bold here. *19:31* They could get rid of the axe and add Mjolnir in its place, I think. *19:35* Because they will function the same way. *19:40* You can throw it, you can call it back. *19:42* It will, for all intents and purposes, be a very similar weapon, I believe. *19:44* But if they don't want to add three weapons to the mix at once, I think they could I think they could swap the two of them for some reason. *19:49* Like let's say the axe shatters or something like that. *19:56* And Kratos is like, well darn, now I've got this hammer. *19:59* I *20:02* Like they could. *20:03* They the the Leviathan axe was designed as a counter to the hammer by Brock and Sindri narratively. *20:04* And it was for Faye. *20:11* To defend the giants while mignol how do you say it? *20:12* Mignolnir? *20:15* Mignolnir? *20:16* Mjolnir. *20:17* Mignolnir. *20:18* The hammer. *20:19* Pretend the Y is uh the J is a Y. *20:21* Mjolnir. *20:23* Mjolnir *20:24* Nah, I can't do it. *20:26* Anyway, the hammer like it killed the giants, the axe defended them. *20:27* It could be a good narrative moment to see the axe break, because that would really crush Kratos. *20:32* Like that's *20:38* was given to him by Fay. *20:39* But I don't like it. *20:41* Because I think it either but I think the axe is like the blades in the sense that you can't Kratos without the axe is a *20:42* Mmm, that's a tough sell. *20:52* So do you think so do you think, I guess to just officially get this on the record for because this will probably be the big thing we'll come back. *20:54* This will be one of the big things we can come back to, at least when we listen to this later on. *21:01* Will the will the hammer will Mjolnir a f like be an actual weapon you can use Like from then on out throughout the rest of the game? *21:05* Like not just something Kratos picks up in a cutscene and whacks *21:14* Thorough. *21:18* Will it be a gameplay weapon with fleshed out mechanics and stuff? *21:19* Oh, I do agree about that. *21:22* I definitely agree. *21:24* But I I'm thinking in a third item slot. *21:25* I gotcha. *21:29* Okay. *21:30* Yeah. *21:30* I d come on. *21:30* Do you think one quick one quick aside with this because I know we we talked about this previously and I wanted to just talk about this. *21:32* Here on the show. *21:39* Do you think the hammer is going to be under like the Marvel rules where only the person who's worthy can wield it? *21:40* I'm under the impression that it's not *21:46* Because Modi says in the previous game that th the Thor that Thor's hammer is supposed to become his, which means to me means he just thinks he's naturally supposed to inherit it, regardless of whether or not he's worthy or not. *21:49* To me that means the worthiness stuff might be chucked out the window in this, and I think that's a good loophole for how they could put Kratos to just use it. *22:03* Uh I do think the worthiness stuff, unless I'm wrong, is more of a Marvel Comics idea. *22:12* So you could be right about that. *22:18* The uh the worthiness angle as far as being able to wield it. *22:21* Yeah, I really do think that's a marvelous. *22:25* Like the instrument the whole what is the word? *22:27* Inscription? *22:33* That's the word I was looking for. *22:34* Like the that's on I don't know if you've seen that in Marvel. *22:35* It's not in the MCU, but there is like an inscription in Marvel comics on the hammer that says, Whoever is worthy may wield the hammer of Thor. *22:38* So my my thought I learned slash was reminded of the story of Magni and Modi today. *22:48* And Magni is worthy because he saves Thor. *22:58* Like as a child. *23:03* Okay. *23:05* And Modi is jealous of Magni their whole life. *23:06* So Magony dies, which is why Thor in the game blamed Modi and beat him up and cast him out. *23:11* And Modi was always trying to become worthy in his father's eyes. *23:20* So there's an angle of earning the hammer in your father's love and legacy and things like that. *23:24* So that's how that dynamic plays out. *23:30* Okay. *23:32* I think see the thing with the axe is I'm pretty sure Kratos is the only one who can do the whole throw and recall thing. *23:33* Clearly, Atreus can wield it. *23:44* He used it against the Dark Elves. *23:46* But the whole magic element of the axe, and like it belonging to Kratos, knowing his call, I feel like that *23:49* Since the axe is a counter to the hammer, I feel like that logic applies to the hammer. *23:58* So is that tied to worthiness or just a person or maybe you kill the person? *24:04* Like I don't know. *24:09* So *24:10* I do think that Kratos will wield it and I think he'll take it from Thor and it will become his. *24:11* I just don't know if it's tied to necessarily like an arbitrary *24:16* Are you worthy in the eyes of the thing? *24:20* Thor sounds horrible. *24:26* Thor's a villain in this in these games for all intents and purposes. *24:27* Like *24:31* He's not a good person. *24:31* So if if there's a strange angle where he's somehow worthy to wield this, but he is correctly pr assuming that Mamir is not lying about the way that Thor is, like that could be the other thing, is that *24:33* Uh our interpretation of these characters is for the most part solely conveyed through Mimir. *24:46* Well but also we do have run-ins with yeah, we have dead spirits. *24:52* And also uh his sons aren't great, so you gotta assume their dad's not great. *24:58* Um Okay, let's talk about Freya. *25:08* I I will just say this out of the gate, and I I don't know what you think about this. *25:13* I think fith everything with Freya is going to *25:18* I think they will uh find peace with Freya somehow. *25:23* I don't think that I don't think that's going to end in bloodshed. *25:28* I I I think they will find a way to overcome what has happened. *25:32* I think she will see I think she will see logic in what the or not logic. *25:36* I think she will come to agreement with them *25:42* Because they'll find a common enemy in Odin. *25:45* And it's it's it's portrayed in the 2018 game that Odin is horrible to her. *25:48* He's awful. *25:56* And whereas like they came together and like um to unite the what is it, the Aesir and the Veneer, right? *25:58* Veneer and the Aesir. *26:06* Yeah, they came together to kinda unite these different groups within Asgard, but she came to resent him and loaths him and he's done nothing but basically *26:08* gaslight her and place all kinds of curses on her to ensure that she can't do certain things. *26:18* She does not if she is if she is taking a side in this war *26:23* She's not gonna side with Odin, even though it is her husband or ex-husband or whatever. *26:28* I just think if everything has been portrayed the way it has been portrayed, she has to have more hate in her heart for Odin. *26:33* A long period of time rather than Kratos. *26:44* And I think she has a soft spot for Atreus. *26:49* I disagree like a hundred percent. *26:51* So this is my Freya theory *26:55* I will add one caveat to this though. *26:59* Okay. *27:02* So it's based off a line that we've both talked about. *27:02* We both have mentioned it to each other. *27:05* But Mamir, or was it Freya, one of them, says *27:07* That Odin placed curses on Freya, where she could attack man or beast and all of Midgard, like she uh in the realms, like she cannot physically harm anyone *27:11* But then you watch the trailer and she clearly is like attacking Kratos. *27:23* And the only thing she ever like loved from Odin was Baldr. *27:28* And I totally think that she go like goes to Od like Odin lifts the curse off her so that she can attack. *27:35* Kratos because Odin's Odin, yeah. *27:43* Odin sees Atreus and Kratos as the threat. *27:46* But I think she'll start to realize that she's being used as a pawn of his. *27:50* is why I think she kills her. *27:54* I think she's only gonna realize that once Odin stabs her in the back and she's bleeding out in front of you. *27:55* Perhaps. *28:01* So you think Odin kills her? *28:02* Yes, I think her quest for vengeance ends in her death, but not at the hands of Kratos and Atreus. *28:04* I think Odin killing her is a good call. *28:10* The other person that I think is most likely to kill her would be Atreus. *28:12* That'd be an interesting moment just because they both have an affinity for each other, obviously up until now, you know, Kelly. *28:18* But that's what I'm saying. *28:24* They ha they the fondness is between the two of them. *28:26* Yes. *28:29* I just think her *28:30* Her love for Baldur, and then the fact that Kratos and Atreus took Baldur away, I think, has placed more hate in her heart than the hate that she has for Odin. *28:32* But I do think the hate that she has largely lies with Kratos. *28:44* It could be Atreus, because that would make her feel very hurt dying at his hands. *28:57* But Atreus is gonna align with Kratos. *29:03* So Yes. *29:05* So it's I but I definitely I I don't think that they find peace. *29:06* She uh not that anyone can see this, but you have like the picture from the cutscene the trailer behind you and she looks very, very mad. *29:11* And her lines at the end of the game, oh my gosh, she is a vengeful woman. *29:20* Yes. *29:26* Yes. *29:27* That's uh one of the better acted performances of the first game. *29:28* I think she will *29:31* Whatever her ultimate fate is, I don't think it's wrapped up uh very early. *29:32* I think she's she's gotta be around the game for the long game. *29:38* She's uh she's not an early *29:41* She's a key player. *29:43* I think I think Thor's written out uh sooner than that. *29:44* That would be crazy. *29:47* The Thor being early I think I think Thor has to show up fast, man. *29:48* I think he has to get in this game and it has to get rolling. *29:53* I *29:57* Ye I mean, how do you think this game will start? *29:58* That's just a general question. *30:00* Do you really think it's gonna be a slow ramp up of oh it's getting cold and we should *30:01* No, I don't think it's a good thing. *30:06* Something will provoke them out of hiding. *30:09* I think the thing that will provoke them out of hiding will be Thor. *30:11* I mean, just like the dream at the end of the game. *30:15* I just don't think Thor will *30:24* Like conclude in the opening. *30:25* Well, actually I'll say this, and and obviously we're piecing together the trailer at this moment. *30:27* Why are they hiding in a cave when we see them in front of their house talking to Thor? *30:32* Well the cave could be at a different later. *30:38* Like they're on the road. *30:40* What I'm suggesting is the game opens with Thor coming to their house, messing them up, sending them into hiding. *30:41* Maybe. *30:48* I I just I think Thor is so Thor is big tease. *30:49* Yeah, I think he is so integral to whatever the events of this game are that he is going to have to show up and just things are integral to Ragnarok, so. *30:54* Yeah, I mean yeah, but he specifically is integral to this game because you have a direct beef with him even if you don't know him yet, because of you killing his sons. *31:03* Couple more things here and then maybe you can have some things if I I left a couple things off. *31:15* I just have written down Odin question mark. *31:20* I don't know what to think of Odin. *31:24* Obviously, he's not a good dude. *31:26* But, I mean, will he be he feels like he has to be the ultimate bad guy, but *31:30* The interesting thing is I I I'm going off of a timeline here. *31:38* At the time where we're talking about this, I've consumed a lot of what the directors and writers about this game have said about these characters. *31:43* And they have said that Odin is totally unlike anything that you're thinking him to be. *31:49* He is like just an old dude who's just kinda cooped up in his own part of of the Nine Realms and he just kinda chills on his own and he's *31:55* Left to his own devices and he knows everything that's going on in the Nine Realms, but he's not so powerful that he's like *32:04* puppet mastering everything or or whatever. *32:13* Well he doesn't need to he doesn't need to puppet master everything because he knows he definitely believes in fate and what it's foretold. *32:15* He's just trying to change the end, not necessarily *32:23* Yeah. *32:26* The middle. *32:26* I think one of the some of the stories in the Norse mythology that I've um read *32:27* Odin is like a traveler, cloaked, looks like a beggar, he's poor. *32:35* Wouldn't be surprised if he's actually *32:39* This is kind of a bad example, but like Kingdom Heartsy in the way of like, you know how Xeonort puts the cloak up and he traveled through all the different realms and stuff. *32:43* And they retroactively tell that. *32:50* I wouldn't be surprised if like there's a moment later in the game where you realize, oh *32:52* That thing back there, or that guy over there, that was Odin. *32:58* You know, kind of a r reveal post-game of like he was everywhere all the time. *33:01* But he's not *33:07* a big towering, you know, super god trying to crush it. *33:09* He's just sneaking around, gathering knowledge, being in the know. *33:14* I d you know, who knows? *33:18* But *33:20* Is Odin a boss fight? *33:21* That's the th big question I was gonna have, because based on everything that they have said so far at Santa Monica *33:24* It sounds like no? *33:31* Like he does not sound like the historical god where you will go toe-to-toe with him. *33:33* Like you would of Zeus at the end of God of War 3. *33:40* Like, it does not seem like this game is going to come down with Kratos and Odin throwing throwing fists at each other. *33:43* What I think could happen *33:49* Is I think Odin is going to somehow have everybody outsmarted. *33:51* And I think the only way to outsmart *33:56* I think the only way to outsmart somebody that has uh a leg up on everybody else in the room is to somehow trick them. *33:59* Which could lead into Loki somehow tricking Odin. *34:07* And I don't know what that looks like because I obviously don't know the events of the game *34:11* But I think that could how I I think that's a way they could put in the trickster elements of Loki and somehow Atreus having *34:15* the ability to pull one over on all these people. *34:23* Because and that's his hmm I don't want to say ability. *34:26* But may s maybe maybe Atreus is able to get one step ahead of even Odin with some of these things. *34:30* Because Atreus is really smart and really *34:35* Well red and uh I mean even Mamir comments in in the game like, lad, you know way more than you probably should know for somebody your age. *34:38* Like you you are very you're very well advanced i for for your age when it comes to your *34:47* reading skills and just general knowledge. *34:52* So I I don't know. *34:56* Like I I feel like I feel like I think I feel like Thor is going to be *34:58* the the muscle in this game. *35:02* He's going to be the classic throw hands with a god character in this game. *35:04* And then Odin I I feel like they're gonna go in a totally different direction. *35:09* And I don't know what that different direction looks like. *35:12* though. *35:14* So it's it's hard to say because you want to just on paper like, yeah, I'm gonna fight Odin. *35:15* That'll be great. *35:24* But clearly we know Freya, excellent warrior. *35:25* She's the queen of Valkyries. *35:28* Like we we know what that spirit can do. *35:30* Um we saw Baldur fight. *35:32* Thor, obviously. *35:34* big brawl kind of fights. *35:36* So like we got two at least two big boss fights in front of us. *35:39* Plus any monsters, you know, that we may come across, anything like that. *35:41* So *35:46* Odin will be interesting. *35:47* If it's a trick or something, though, that would almost certainly play out narratively in a cutscene, not on gameplay. *35:49* Yeah. *35:56* And I would like However I Defeat Odin. *35:56* to be by my own hand through a gameplay mechanic somehow. *36:00* Yeah, but I don't think it's gonna be I don't necessarily think it's a fight, but like setting up the world in a way or over the course of the journey, not like solving a puzzle at the end. *36:04* There's just there's gotta be something in the f and I do like how we know so little about Odin. *36:14* We don't know what he looks like. *36:20* I too. *36:21* We don't know what he sounds like. *36:21* We don't all we know is what we've been told. *36:23* We know a lot about him i like uh we know a lot about what he has done in this realm, but we don't know Which is truly terrible stuff. *36:25* Yes. *36:36* But we don't know everything about *36:37* uh who he is as a person, I guess, uh like interacting with him. *36:40* Yeah, like interacting with him, I guess. *36:46* Uh, cause we've even had a tease in the trailer of *36:49* Thor and his voice and how he talks and stuff like that. *36:52* So good. *36:55* So there's just a lot of un un there's just a lot of the remaining questions. *36:56* Uh with uh Odin in particular. *37:03* He he's the character I I'm definitely most interested in seeing what happens. *37:05* Um I do have one other thing I I t I totally forgot. *37:10* While we're just doing general *37:15* Questions here. *37:17* Uh Angerbota, do you have anything to say about her really? *37:18* Because clearly she's gonna be an important character *37:22* How do you think they fold her in? *37:25* It's clearly just gonna be a relationship between her and Atreus that's going to develop, I would imagine. *37:27* You're gonna meet her at some point. *37:32* Mm-hmm. *37:33* I don't know *37:34* I mean beyond what I just know that her and Loki like create the monsters and stuff that help f uh ultimately lead to Ragnarok. *37:36* Like beyond that I'm not sure if you're not sure. *37:45* She feels like a character that has very little *37:46* She feels like a character that they can do a lot with because she has less defined events, I guess, within the Norse lore. *37:50* So they're they they can take some more creative liberties with her. *37:59* And she doesn't have um she doesn't have anything in this world too. *38:03* Like there's no mention of her in the first game *38:09* Yeah. *38:11* So she really is a blank slate coming in. *38:12* She's just gonna be a new interesting dynamic and relationship for these characters. *38:14* Well I mean let's let's touch on the one character who is mentioned a lot, which is Tyr. *38:18* Um he's the one other big big boy literally that we have not mentioned that is hugely involved within the previous game and now he's actually going to show up *38:23* I don't know what to think of Tyr. *38:36* Obviously all the stories say that he's a good guy and they I mean it's he seems like he'll be an ally. *38:40* with what it's ever whatever's going on here. *38:45* And I I think that'll be true. *38:47* I don't think that he's there's gonna be any nefarious things going on with him. *38:48* Yeah. *38:52* Unless it's just a whole *38:53* pull the wool over Kratos' eyes between Mamir and Tear and stuff like that. *38:55* But even in even in the trailer, like I think Atreus says like, oh we gotta go find Tyr and Mamir's like, I think he's dead. *39:00* Like uh I I don't *39:07* He says something like that, like saying that he he doesn't even know where he's at. *39:08* So I don't think this is gonna be a long con. *39:12* Tyr though *39:14* I think Tier is going to provide a larger my my prediction when I when I was texting you the other day, I think Tier could *39:16* somehow open up this franchise in a larger way by the end of this game. *39:24* Like I think this game will end *39:29* And the Norse stuff will be over, but we will know where it's going next. *39:32* And because and that's because Tyr has already traveled around to these different *39:37* uh pantheons within the world. *39:42* Like it was already teased in the previous game that he's um he's he's visited the Greek Pantheon. *39:45* He's obviously resides in the North Pantheon, but then what was it the *39:49* The Egyptian obviously was the other one. *39:53* Was it Celtic is the other one, I believe? *39:55* Maybe. *39:57* I thought it was China. *39:58* Maybe it was. *40:01* Yeah, Asian. *40:02* I can't remember. *40:04* It's one of those. *40:05* Anyway, he's traveled around and like potentially visited other realms and visited other gods and things like that. *40:06* And I think that's going to be hugely important when it comes to *40:12* Like I said, setting up where these games go next because I think there is going to be a clear idea with where we're going by the time this game ends. *40:16* It'll be like okay, the Norse stuff's over, but it's clear that *40:26* Things are now moving in this direction. *40:29* And I think that might be because tier could set some things up in that way. *40:32* Here's my tier question for you in the moment. *40:38* Like you said, Tears visited other pantheons, Egypt, Asia, somewhere in Asia, and Greek, you know, he's been to Greece. *40:42* Do you think they retroactively say that Tyr and Kratos have already met? *40:53* That would be interesting. *40:58* I don't know. *41:00* Because Kratos Mimir has heard of the ghost of Sparta. *41:01* He has. *41:05* Tear could be freaked out by m seeing Kratos, actually, when they first meet. *41:06* They uh Tear could have very *41:10* He could have very strong ideas. *41:16* But they could have also met. *41:17* Maybe when Kratos was at peak power as the god of war, inflicting war across the earth, you know. *41:19* Or maybe he'll say that Ares guy was a terrible god of war. *41:28* Good good on you. *41:31* Yeah, so I'm curious if there's any connection there. *41:32* That'll be fun. *41:37* Yeah, that would be interesting. *41:38* I didn't think about that, because if he has traveled around, then clearly he's familiar with the Greek world. *41:39* He would know Zeus. *41:44* He would know Zeus. *41:45* He would have known. *41:46* And if he didn't know Kratos is the god of war, he would have known Ares. *41:48* Yeah. *41:51* That's an interesting point. *41:53* That's something I hadn't thought about. *41:54* So yeah, them interacting might be spicy. *41:56* Two God of Wars working together. *42:00* Potentially. *42:04* Maybe working together. *42:05* That that would that would be one way where they could oppose each other would be because of that. *42:06* Would be and that could shed the the what would be interesting is that could shed some serious light on to Atreus on what Kratos did. *42:10* Because a tra Kratos has still only said, I killed a lot of people, some of whom were deserving, some of whom weren't deserving. *42:19* So Tier comes in and says, I knew who you are, you killed your whole world. *42:26* Basically. *42:34* You're the reason the Greeks aren't around anymore. *42:35* Yeah. *42:37* And Atreus, the other th the other nugget, I I I don't think Atreus will betray Kratos or anything like that, or that there would even be a standoff between *42:38* Tyr and Kratos and Atreus or whatever. *42:46* But Atreus does have a certain fondness for Tyr, and that's clear that uh from this previous game, like him reading all of the stories about him, you can tell that he's like *42:49* super interested by Tyr as a character and he he thinks that Tyr is like a the good guy, which he's present is what he's presented as. *42:59* So if Tear as this like *43:07* supposed savior of the Norse realm is all of a sudden like, yo, I'm not aligning with that guy because I know what that guy right there did, then that could be prove to be an interesting crossroads for Atreus. *43:09* As well. *43:22* We just have to see how they would develop that more in the game. *43:23* And who knows? *43:27* I have one more thing, and then I don't know if you have anything either, because I know I've been *43:28* Totally leading this so far. *43:32* So if you have anything else, you can throw it in. *43:33* But my last question I have written down is who blew the horn and is it even important? *43:35* Yes, it's important. *43:42* I think it's important because uh Barlog specifically keeps he brings it up pretty often. *43:43* Which to me says there there's clearly a there there's a reason that was done. *43:49* So what is the reason though? *43:56* I'm not sure. *43:59* They talk to the world serpent. *44:00* Could be Odin. *44:04* So who's talking to the world, Serpent? *44:04* Most likely candidates, I think, could be Odin for some reason. *44:07* Mm-hmm. *44:11* Because it's it's obviously not like Thor or something. *44:11* Yeah, that's my top sense. *44:14* The world serpent would try to murder Thor if he saw him. *44:16* He doesn't like him. *44:19* Uh I think Odin makes sense *44:20* For uh I think it could be Odin. *44:23* Other than that, I I I don't have any good guesses. *44:26* And it's not You don't want to share your theory *44:28* Oh, it could be time traveling. *44:31* That would that was the other thing. *44:33* If the there if there is time traveling in this game, I think for one reason or another *44:34* It could be totally back to the future, like where we get two Kratoses and two Atreuses appearing in the same timeline at the same time, and maybe the person who blew it was Kratos and Atreus again. *44:40* Because they're back in this time period for some reason. *44:52* I really like that idea. *44:56* Strange time travel things. *44:58* I don't know why they would why would they be blowing it? *45:00* I don't know. *45:03* Why would they be back in that time period to the world serpent, yeah. *45:04* Yeah. *45:10* I think the I think the most likely one is Odin. *45:10* Why would Odin need to talk to him? *45:15* I don't know. *45:16* Who even can talk to him though is the thing. *45:18* That's the reason I think the Kratos and Atreus idea makes sense. *45:21* Who speaks giant? *45:24* Could have been angry Boda. *45:25* Maybe. *45:28* He doesn't giant? *45:29* I thought he they just said he spoke a dead tongue and Mamir just happens to know it. *45:30* Giant. *45:35* Oh, okay. *45:36* No one else speaks it. *45:37* I guess Atreus speaks it when he needs him to come out of nowhere and Well, bite bite a bite a giant. *45:39* By the reanimated giant. *45:46* Later he would know, sure. *45:48* But yeah, Atreus doesn't speak it, which is why. *45:50* s uh bite the reanimated corpse that uh Freya brought to life in the final boss fight. *46:00* Oh yes, well he's picked up something. *46:06* But you know *46:09* I think that's that it will be interesting to see how that plays out. *46:11* That's one of those things that, you know it's one of the few teases in the game that they've lost. *46:14* It's it's yeah, it's one of the few remaining unanswered questions that we have left to kind of *46:20* dig into. *46:25* That's all I had. *46:27* I don't know if you have anything else you would like to bring up about this game or say about this game. *46:28* Do we fight the big bird in hell? *46:35* I think if we have to go back there, probably, because that just felt like *46:40* Because one of one of Loki's children with Angry Boda is hell. *46:45* The lady, not the place. *46:52* Yeah. *46:54* Yeah. *46:54* So I mean that could make sense. *46:55* Uh okay. *46:57* My final question for you then, just out of curiosity, this won't really be a prediction in on the long run that people are wondering about, but is this your most anticipated game? *46:59* In general? *47:10* Because we got, I mean That's a good question. *47:11* Because we got Breath of the Wild 2, which I know is probably high on your list as well. *47:14* It is. *47:17* I mean that I'm high on mine as well. *47:18* Personally, I'm really excited for Elden Ring. *47:20* I would say this is higher than Elden Ring though. *47:22* Yeah, honestly, probably. *47:25* I feel like *47:27* Ask me again when we actually know more about the sequel to Breath of the Wild. *47:31* Like I feel like I know this game, like where we're going here, and everything that they've *47:38* They're promising sounds exciting. *47:44* Yeah, we know this will be a good game. *47:47* Yeah, like but Breath of the Wild, the sequel, it's *47:49* Sure, they've shown off gameplay, like warping through stuff and the stuff in the sky and all that that's exciting. *47:54* But I don't know, that game feels more like a mystery. *48:03* And also, especially since I don't believe that game's coming out next year, like there's a better chance of Ragnarok coming out on time than Zelda. *48:07* Well there's a that there's another question. *48:14* Do you think this comes out next year, 2022? *48:15* Um I honestly, unfortunately, I don't think it will. *48:19* Uh I think the one hope that we have at the moment is that they originally aim for 2021. *48:25* So that to me means that it could be further along than we're expecting. *48:31* But I just COVID's really thrown everything off. *48:37* I think delays were always gonna be *48:41* I think delays are always gonna happen in the first place, but then delays ha within COVID times are especially weird now. *48:45* Um *48:52* So yeah, I I I think I hope so, I doubt it. *48:54* We'll see. *48:59* I'm *49:00* It's gonna be if it does come out this year, I mean this year will be they're a banger. *49:02* They're gonna have a ver PlayStation will have a very good year between *49:08* This and Horizon Grand Turismo 7. *49:12* Grand Turismo. *49:15* And you know, personally, I'm excited for Uncharted. *49:16* We'll see what they cook up for, you know, Insomniac. *49:19* Should be inspired next year. *49:26* 2023. *49:29* That's what I'm saying. *49:30* That's what I'm saying. *49:31* Oh, next year. *49:31* Uh and PSVR two is launching next year, so *49:32* I do think on paper that it would be stronger to have God of War come out in 2022 than 23. *49:37* I agree. *49:45* I think it would round out their lineup much better this year. *49:46* Um and I think it I think the one other big thing too is that if we're di the one other reason I think it could also come out this year *49:51* Is if we're still having cross-gen games release in 2023, there's a problem. *49:58* There's a problem. *50:04* Yeah. *50:05* So I I I think that's one of the big thing that and the originally intended release window of 2021 makes me think this is actually sooner than we could be estimating. *50:06* And honestly, the fact it is a cross-gen game. *50:16* We know that it's *50:18* There's a foundation to build upon here. *50:20* They are this game is running on nearly nine-year-old hardware. *50:22* Like it shouldn't *50:28* It shouldn't be Yeah. *50:30* It shouldn't take that long to develop as it would theoretically for brand new game, for a brand new console *50:33* never done before, like can't run on anything else. *50:42* Like there's a baseline here to operate from instead of building a new foundation. *50:44* Yeah. *50:49* Yep. *50:49* I agree. *50:50* I I think if it does come out this year *50:50* And it's not a late fall thing. *50:54* I think the earliest we could maybe see it. *50:55* I feel like an August type release date could make sense for this. *50:58* Like late summer, July or August, potentially. *51:02* We don't again we don't know what the rest of the year is gonna line up and look like, even though this would be more of a game that everybody would be getting out of the way of rather than uh Sony needing to strategically release this, but still. *51:06* Anyway, I wanted to look I wanted to look it up. *51:20* Um Dang it, where is it? *51:23* I wanted to see when they that Sony announced the Horizon Forbidden West date. *51:29* Cause we could gauge kind of how far out or how soon at least they could theoretically announce a date for this. *51:38* Which it looks like they announced the date in August 25th of 2021. *51:46* For February 18th of 22. *51:52* And as of recording, mid late December, that hasn't that date still stands. *51:54* So September *52:00* October, November, December, January, February, six months. *52:02* So if it's late summer, we would find out here in a couple of months. *52:08* If it's later in the year, we'll probably find out around the summertime E3. *52:15* Or just before that in like a May window. *52:20* Fingers crossed. *52:24* I want it. *52:25* I mean, the sooner it arrives the better. *52:25* So obviously, I'm all on board for whatever it does release. *52:27* But yeah, hopefully it's 2022. *52:33* Anyway. *52:35* Hope you enjoyed this uh weird kind of one-off discussion. *52:36* Again, I know this was very different. *52:40* We will probably not do anything like that with this show. *52:43* Ever again? *52:47* Did I ca or maybe not ever again, but uh most of the game franchises we've been playing have been uh older. *52:48* And there's not new entries coming out that we are at least *52:56* Aware of you silly goose. *53:00* When The Last of Us Part Three comes out, we'll do a predictions episode for that. *53:01* Yeah, sure. *53:06* Hopefully it never comes out. *53:07* But uh I remember when you said that about part two. *53:09* Well I feel that way about part three now. *53:12* I agree. *53:14* I mean you decided for factions. *53:16* Yeah, do something else, Naughty Dog. *53:18* Anyway, uh if you want *53:20* If you want to continue, it's gonna be funny because this'll uh this entire back and forth will be irrelevant by the time this is released. *53:23* We'll know what they're doing. *53:29* Um their new IP will have been canceled. *53:33* We'll have seen Odin like ten times over by the time this releases. *53:35* There's just an Odin trailer. *53:40* Yeah. *53:41* If you want to continue to keep up with us, best way to do so is just subscribe to the podcast service of your choice. *53:42* You can also follow us on social media. *53:48* I am at Moreman12. *53:50* Uh Max is at Max Roberts143. *53:52* Almost said the old handle. *53:56* Still you not used to it. *53:57* Someday you get it. *53:59* And then you can also follow the podcast at chapter select where we keep you up to date on when new shows go live and what our current seasons are and all that good stuff *54:00* So be sure to keep up with us in all those places. *54:10* And if you can leave us a review as well in any of the pods c podcast services, that would be very much appreciated. *54:12* Uh but until next time, we hope you enjoy God of War Ragnarok whenever it does release, and we will be doing a breakdown episode on that game as well whenever it does launch. *54:19* So look forward to that in your feed down the road. *54:31* Until then, bye bye, adios. *54:34* Chapter select is a max frequency production *54:38* This episode was researched, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *54:41* Season two is hosted by Logan Moore and myself. *54:46* And it's all about God of War. *54:49* For more on this season, go to chapterselect. *54:52* com forward slash season two. *54:54* To check out previous seasons, go to chapterselect. *54:57* com. *55:00*