# Chapter Select, [[S2E9 - God of War - Ragnarök]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- That's the that's the thing I guess this is more flashback stuff. *00:00* But Riley *00:06* Like is is cast, she's in the show. *00:07* The carousel is in the trailer, like I'm curio I'm curious when it will. *00:09* Sure. *00:13* So the uh uh that's probably *00:13* Probably after Joel is wounded. *00:16* Because remember, that's when the DLC is set and she's in the mall. *00:18* So that's probably where they mix. *00:21* They're probably doing left behind where there's flashbacks. *00:23* Yeah. *00:27* That's exact that's probably what they're doing. *00:28* Yeah. *00:31* Didn't did Neil do only one episode or two? *00:31* I think two. *00:33* So the first episode. *00:34* But I feel like he did left behind as well then. *00:35* I feel no, I think he just did one. *00:37* I'm sorry. *00:39* Oh, you said two. *00:40* Oh, if he did one then it's I assume it's one or the first or second episode is what he directed. *00:41* I think he did the second. *00:46* Yeah. *00:47* So I'll tell you this. *00:48* I'll tell you this. *00:49* I don't want to tell you everything from my interview with *00:50* kneeling them but you you send me the link to the unpublished video you can tell me whatever you want I could do that but I don't want to do that that's that'll get me no I don't get in trouble that's a step too far. *00:52* Don't get in trouble. *01:02* I asked Merle *01:03* I saw one of the questions I asked her, I think she got kind of like she thought she thought I was asking something else than what I was. *01:07* Oh. *01:14* And I think we kind of had our wires crossed. *01:15* And to and she still answered the question well, but she didn't get what I was going for. *01:17* I asked her, I said, so Merle, there's a there's a famous *01:22* alternate ending of The Last of Us game where that you and Troy shot said that wasn't in the game. *01:28* And I said, did you do that this time around with Pedro? *01:34* You didn't just say that you didn't just spell out the singing? *01:37* Yeah, I didn't I didn't uh I think Neil understood what I was talking about, but maybe she didn't. *01:40* And she understood like there were alternate Indians that they shot. *01:46* Oh yeah. *01:50* And so I think she thought I was talking about that and not explicitly the singing one. *01:50* Which is what I was talking about. *01:56* So she talked about that with me. *01:58* And then I was like, wait, I don't think she knows what I was getting at *01:59* And I was like d afterward I was like darn I should have spelled that out more clearly because that could have made for like a game. *02:02* You played koi. *02:07* Yeah, you're koy in the game. *02:08* Well I did I did mention it later. *02:09* I was uh I did bring that up later. *02:11* I didn't explicitly mention the singing stuff *02:12* But I think she didn't know like, wait, what is he talking about? *02:15* Like, you'll j you'll have to see when I talk to him. *02:17* Okay. *02:20* I didn't realize you talked to them at the same time. *02:21* Yeah, they were the only duo. *02:24* And then I talked to That's interesting. *02:26* And kinda cool. *02:29* Yeah, they were the only duo all well Bella and uh Pedro. *02:31* Bella and Pedro were a pair too. *02:35* Sure. *02:37* But that was it. *02:38* And then Neil was with her. *02:40* One month, man. *02:42* Holy smokes. *02:43* I'm excited. *02:45* One question that I didn't get to ask one of the actors is I wanted to ask Gabriel. *02:46* Who plays Tommy? *02:52* I was gonna be like, hey, you know, like Tommy's a way bigger part of Last of Us 2. *02:53* Obviously they haven't confirmed anything to adapt that game, but if they did, would you like wanna play *02:58* play Tommy for the long haul here or whatever. *03:03* And I didn't get to ask him that because we instead spent three minutes talking about Marvel movies. *03:06* So *03:11* Oh my gosh, you are the episode of Barry. *03:12* I did he he played he was in the Agents of Shield show. *03:15* So I had to ask him about that. *03:19* Comicbook. *03:21* com. *03:22* My boss commanded me. *03:23* So I had to do that. *03:24* But he was like eager to talk about that. *03:26* Sure, yeah, I'm sure he loves it. *03:28* Like as soon as I did, he like perked up. *03:29* He's like, oh boy. *03:31* I'm curious *03:32* If they introduce Jerry at all. *03:35* Like if there's a flat out of Oh, I think they definitely will. *03:37* Sabby. *03:47* Okay. *03:48* I was gonna say why am I it's not an Aden. *03:48* Um who's the Firefly lady? *03:51* I can only think of Marlene. *03:56* I can only think Merle because that's her real name. *03:57* Marlene, so do you think we see that scene that's actually in part two where it's her arguing with Jerry about whether or not to kill her? *03:59* Well *04:09* The only reason I think they might not introduce Abby What if it's a zoo episode and we see both the zebra and the giraffe scenes? *04:09* That'd be good. *04:17* Big brain over here. *04:18* I think the only reason they wouldn't introduce Abby is because they haven't cac. *04:20* her yet and that'll have to be a long casting process I assume. *04:24* You know, but that well it's a young Abbey. *04:27* It's a young Abbey though. *04:29* Yeah and then they could sw *04:31* Switch actresses for Yeah. *04:32* So here's the here's the thing they could do. *04:35* I hope they don't do I mean they they shouldn't do that for a long time though. *04:38* Because Bella needs to get old? *04:42* Yeah, Bella looks like she's a little child. *04:44* Yes. *04:48* Which I get is like part of the point, but in re in reality, Bella is like 19, I think. *04:48* I think. *04:53* She's like nineteen or twenty. *04:53* She looks like she's fourteen. *04:55* She looks super young. *04:58* Yeah. *04:59* So she needs to I they could not do the last of those front two anytime soon because it just would not work. *05:00* So here's a TV th trope that they could Or they could reverse it. *05:06* Or they could reverse it the in the in the sh show. *05:10* They could have Ellie get her head bashed in and then j it's all about Joel. *05:13* That would feel really messed up. *05:19* That would be really wrong. *05:21* Um the TV trope thing they could do is have the spring episode open with the zebra. *05:23* And you're like, who's this guy? *05:30* And why is he saving a zebra? *05:31* And then you forget about him. *05:33* And then you get to the end of the hospital, and he's the one getting ready to cut Ellie open and you kill him. *05:34* They could. *05:39* I think they'll introduce Jerry and Abby. *05:40* I do. *05:42* I wanna see I I wanna see that. *05:43* But I will say this. *05:46* The meme. *05:48* This is the problem. *05:48* And this is again another problem with the television medium and how you're doing this. *05:49* I I don't think *05:54* I don't think Last of Us Two works as a TV show. *05:57* I think no, I think it would work. *06:03* I th like the story would work not as effective. *06:06* Yeah, that's what I'm saying. *06:09* Like the effectiveness of that game and what it is trying to do and what it is going for and the emotions it's trying to pull out of you and the way it's trying to make you feel is all rooted in it being a game. *06:10* And being a good idea. *06:22* And it is so core to that experience. *06:22* It's like it's it's kind of the same thing when for years people have been like, oh, we should make a Bioshock movie. *06:25* I'm like, that just wouldn't work. *06:30* Like it's like *06:31* Where's the choice? *06:32* Yeah, like the whole point of work in this day and age, like a Netflix thing. *06:33* One of those choose your own adventures. *06:37* Limited. *06:39* I'm not saying it'd be great. *06:40* No, Netflix does that stuff. *06:42* I'm not saying it'd be good, but today you could do that. *06:44* The thing with season two is the TV show, I don't think *06:47* You can't have episodes bouncing between Abby and Ellie. *06:55* You can't. *06:58* Because everyone is going to hate Abby from the first episode of But you can't also have it go halfway through the series and switch and stop *06:59* Yeah. *07:08* So it's like this is the other problem. *07:08* Cause then no one will care. *07:11* So season two is it's really actually the more fascinating *07:13* are more intriguing, I should say, challenge, I think. *07:19* Last of Us One TV show, pretty straightforward, like *07:23* at least narratively direction wise what you're doing. *07:27* Part two would be so different and *07:30* The struggle, like how do you tell that story the same way? *07:36* Or not the same way, but you know, communicate the same message. *07:41* Because there are great shows and movies that take a villain and turn them into something you c someone you care about. *07:46* Look at uh Peter Dinklage in Game of Thrones, you know? *07:51* Like Tyrion no one likes Tyrion in the beginning, but then by the end he's *07:55* one of the main favorites. *07:59* Um s Jamie Lannister, all that stuff. *08:01* So it's But you need they needed like five six to do that. *08:04* Exactly. *08:08* That's what I'm saying. *08:09* The problem with this is they're they're trying to condense *08:09* these complex narratives that are stretched out over fifteen like again this is one of the things I kinda asked Neil about too like *08:12* There's a lot of stuff in The Last of Us. *08:22* Like how did you choose what to include? *08:25* They could *08:29* They could just not jump right into the start of part two and actually do the interstitial time while they're in Jackson and Ellie's getting older and they could show Abby up in Seattle and her becoming a wolf. *08:31* And maybe that's a season or two of those Yeah, those relate I don't know. *08:45* G well she's gotta get old, right? *08:50* I don't know *08:51* No, too much writing for Neil. *08:53* Get to biz get finish this stupid part three game and move on. *08:55* We have lived with this for ten years now. *09:00* And it's like, okay *09:03* I understand the last of us. *09:05* We have stewed with this game for a decade. *09:07* Please do another thing. *09:11* Like, they're too talented to just keep *09:13* I like I'm tired and and it's not just that it's not it's it's more just like I'm tired of these characters, I'm tired of the *09:17* setting I'm tired and I don't have a problem with these things at face value but it's like we've just lived in it for too long and it's kind of the same way I felt with *09:25* By the end of Untrial 4 too. *09:33* Like I was like, okay. *09:35* I think they would have done like one more of these. *09:36* It would have been like a bridge too far. *09:37* Like this is a good cutting off point. *09:39* And then they made it. *09:40* Stop. *09:41* Well it kind of, but at least Drake wasn't in it. *09:42* Um like they kind of yeah, whatever. *09:45* Nathan was not in it. *09:51* Um *09:53* But like that's kind of how I'm feeling about Last of Us Now. *09:54* It's like okay. *09:57* It's fascinating. *09:58* You've had three versions of this game, a sequel *09:59* Now a TV show adaptation, you're gonna make a third one? *10:02* Like what I sent you though. *10:05* A multiplayer game, too? *10:08* It's like, oh my gosh. *10:09* Okay, the multiplayer game *10:11* Is going to be like that's just gonna be good. *10:13* I think that'll be good. *10:14* Yeah, that's gonna be honest. *10:15* I don't hate I don't hate any of this. *10:16* My my frustration is derived from the fact that I think Naughty Dog is pound for pound *10:18* one of the best development studios in the world and they keep rehashing the same ground that I am a little tired of. *10:24* And it's like, uh *10:31* If they could stretch their creative legs just a little bit, like the f the the rumors that like Santa Monica is doing like a sci-fi game is like *10:32* Ho ho ho ho ho ho! *10:40* Let's go, baby! *10:41* I'm very interested in that, like But also the rumors Santa Marco's doing a sci-fi game were from *10:42* I know that was a good one. *10:48* A decade ago and that got killed. *10:50* Well Barlog's straight up said, like, oh, I'm working on something else. *10:51* Oh yeah. *10:54* I like God of War more than I like Last of Us. *10:57* But if all the yeah, if that was the case with Corey and all of a sudden he was like, ha ha, my secret game was Atreus goes to college, I'd be like, no. *10:59* Ho ho ho and I like God of War a lot. *11:07* Like, I just don't like to see talented studios. *11:11* sit with the same franchises for especially nowadays. *11:14* Like it'd be one thing if this was ten to fifteen years ago when game development was faster, but now like *11:17* Like even Neil has said this, like, when we choose a project, we're aware that we're like gonna be in that zone for like five to six years. *11:22* So it's like a huge commitment for us to move forward on things. *11:29* And that sucks, because I we were talking about this the other night. *11:32* If they make Last of Us 3, I will be 40 by the time they potentially release a new game of a new IP. *11:36* That makes me want to lose my mind. *11:43* Yeah. *11:46* PS6, 40 years old. *11:48* I will have children probably. *11:50* But isn't that exciting too? *11:52* No, it means I'm closer to the grave. *11:55* Do I even game at that point? *11:58* Who knows? *12:00* Uh I'm I'm fine with part three because *12:03* Just because Neil's the co-president. *12:10* Like, he wouldn't and Naughty Dog pretty much can do whatever they want. *12:12* So, like, they have a some desire to do it *12:16* So I assume there's something worth it. *12:20* So if you're gonna do part three *12:32* May as well do it now while the whole studio is d I mean within the past five years you've had them do Last of Us 2, Last of Us Remake, you've got them helping on the show now. *12:34* You gotta make it a multiplayer game. *12:44* Screw it. *12:46* May as well if everybody's on board and everybody's doing this and everybody knows the franchise we're working on. *12:47* May as well just do part three right now. *12:52* Get it done in the trilogy, wash your hands of it, and move on. *12:55* Like because the whole studio is in that zone, so knock it out, get it done, and then move on. *12:58* And so that I I understand it from that perspective, but I also don't want it *13:05* We'll see. *13:10* We'll see. *13:11* Obviously, I think multiplayer game is twenty-three and then I assume they talk about this mysti this part three game, if that is in fact the case, which I I would bet on. *13:12* Uh they talk about that in I say twenty-five. *13:23* I mean they could do twenty-four game awards maybe like end of the year reveal it, but I'm only gonna talk about till twenty-five. *13:28* Neil told me *13:36* When I asked him about this, and I don't know if I told you this, but his response basically when I asked about this was he was like, Yeah. *13:38* We announced uh those games too far in yeah, he I asked him, I was like, you guys announced Chart 4 in advance and last part two in advance like *13:46* You feel we feel weird that you haven't announced your next thing yet? *13:56* And he was like, no, we announced both of those games way too early, and we shouldn't have done that. *13:59* And we've learned from that and we're not gonna do that this time. *14:04* So basically he told me like *14:06* Expect us to be quiet for a longer period of time, it sounds like. *14:09* I'm all for it. *14:12* I th I think it's better when it's a shorter turnaround from announcement to release. *14:14* It's more fun. *14:17* Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series exploring their evolution, design, and legacy. *14:19* For season two, we are back and we are talking about God of War, specifically God of War Ragnarok. *14:27* My name is Max Roberts, and I am joined as always by Logan Moore. *14:33* Hi, Logan. *14:37* Time traveling snakes *14:38* Are real. *14:41* They are real. *14:42* Just like we thought. *14:43* But it does not happen like it does in North Smith. *14:45* It it wasn't so much Loki Loki and Angry Boda coming together. *14:48* That's not how he time travels. *14:53* No, he's smacked by a hammer real hard. *14:55* Yes, but the birth of the snake was not the the Norse birth. *14:58* I don't know how that works, but I didn't want to see uh toddlers making apples in the video game. *15:04* I didn't either. *15:11* It was I was very curious how they were gonna handle that, and they handled it uh fairly cleverly. *15:12* But maybe they didn't do so well with the rest of Norse myth. *15:17* You're already hatin'. *15:22* You're already getting off so okay. *15:24* I'm gonna take over right now. *15:25* But this has been a long time coming for us to do this episode. *15:27* It has. *15:30* We did a whole season of God of War *15:30* Yeah. *15:33* We talked about Brighton Rock a lot. *15:33* I brought you in old. *15:36* I had only not played Ghost of Sparta and uh Ascension. *15:38* Those were the only two I hadn't played. *15:43* So I'd played everything. *15:44* Exactly. *15:45* You hadn't played the best games. *15:45* I hadn't played Ghost of Art as a good game. *15:47* So yeah, this is obviously we did season two of God of War in what, 2021? *15:51* Yep. *15:57* This episode is being recorded in December 2022, so Rangrock has been out for a little over a month now. *15:58* We've played the game. *16:05* I played the game like two months ago almost because I reviewed it. *16:06* And we talked so we had a lot of s lead up, obviously, to Ragnarok, because we played all those games last year. *16:09* We did a whole predictions episode. *16:16* And I I actually did pretty good on that predictions episode if you go back and listen to it. *16:18* In some ways. *16:21* I did better than you though. *16:22* Because you you thought a lot of things with Freya that I thought would happen. *16:24* You thought the total opposite, which did not happen. *16:28* We'll talk about what we'll talk about all the story stuff with this game. *16:31* Obviously up front story spoilers for Ragnarok. *16:34* We have a lot to go through *16:37* And Max, you don't I don't think you like the game, but we'll we'll get to that in a in a second. *16:39* We've got compliments We've intentionally not talked in too much detail about the game together. *16:43* To save it for the show. *16:49* I actually just read Logan's review tonight when we're recording this. *16:50* I hadn't even read his review yet. *16:54* So we've done you're more familiar with what I said than I than I am, because I wrote that *16:56* A month or two ago and I haven't looked at it since then. *17:02* And so we've been kind of marinating and soaking it in. *17:15* We didn't really necessarily want to rush this out. *17:18* There were some holidays in between. *17:21* I played the game in like a week. *17:22* because I had to beat it before traveling for Thanksgiving. *17:25* And so and I assume spoilers as well was something you were conscious of. *17:28* Spoiler. *17:32* If I didn't have travel, I I probably wouldn't have been as as aggressive of a speedy th placer. *17:32* But *17:39* Uh I definitely played in a condensed period and then haven't touched it since. *17:39* I actually booted it up tonight waiting for you uh to go find to do a side quest for tier. *17:42* So *17:50* That was one of the things I decided to kind of see before uh recording tonight. *17:51* So that's kind of where we're at coming into this game in this discussion. *17:57* Alright, let's do the rundown and then we'll get into more of our feelings because I think we're gonna have a very complex discussion in a lot of *18:01* Ways. *18:10* We both have strange feelings about this game, which we've made clear to one another, but we haven't gotten into the nitty-gritty of why we feel those ways *18:11* God War Ragnarok came out on November 9th, 2022 for both PS5 and PS4. *18:17* It was developed once again by Sony Santa Monica Studio. *18:23* The game director this time around was Eric Williams. *18:27* Corey Barlog was not in the director's chair for the sequel. *18:29* Uh the producers on the game uh were Elizabeth Dom Wong. *18:33* Uh she was a senior staff producer on uh *18:37* She was a producer on 2018. *18:41* She was a senior staff producer this time around. *18:42* The game had a lot of other producers though, which you've noted here, including Eric Fong, Ariel Ang Angelodi, Angelodi, Jeff Catcham. *18:45* uh Kate Marlin and Trey Fitzgerald uh to go along with oh there's a whole nother line with Mike Kelleher Marty stu uh Studivan *18:54* and Lee Sparks. *19:03* The combat designers were Mahir Sheff and Danny Ye. *19:05* And the composer on the game was once again Bear McCreary. *19:10* Max this game was very well received in a time where I don't think people were expecting this game to be as well received as it was. *19:13* Um I think that's kind of one of the most interesting things about this game is that it was one of the most highly anticipated games I feel like of the past. *19:20* Five years and it met those expectations for both fans and critics. *19:28* It has a 94 out of 100 on Metacritic, which is the same uh Metacritic score that God of War 2018 got. *19:33* Which is uh pretty impressive to say the least. *19:41* Uh that's for the PS5 version. *19:45* There are no reviews for the PS4 version. *19:46* Or there's two, but there's not enough for an average. *19:48* Really? *19:51* And uh *19:51* You have to get four for there to be an average. *19:53* There's only two PS4 reviews. *19:55* I just looked at it. *19:58* I didn't even look up the PS4 version. *19:59* I just assumed everyone reviewed the PS5 version, but that's I mean if you look up I mean it's a *20:01* 10 out of 10 on both of them. *20:06* So there you go. *20:09* Perfect score on perfect 100 out of 100 for two reviews on the PS4 version. *20:12* Alright, so how do where where do you want to start here? *20:17* We've both established that we've got complicated feelings. *20:20* Oh actually, let me start because I reviewed the game, so I think it's easier for me to kind of *20:23* If you want to know my feelings, my review is out there. *20:28* I have a full like 2,000 plus word review in a video. *20:31* You can go check that out. *20:35* If you're listening to this, it's I recommend it. *20:36* It'll be in the show notes, comicbook. *20:39* com. *20:41* I put a lot of work into that so you can go check that out. *20:41* I will say uh I gave the game a 4. *20:44* 5 out of 5 on our scale. *20:47* Um so I think the game is really, really, really good. *20:50* I have complex feelings, I guess. *20:54* I I don't have complex feelings about this game as a game, if that makes any sense. *20:56* Like as a g *21:03* As it's in its merits uh of like storytelling, performances, music, combat, graphics, art direction, like across the board *21:04* I think it is stellar, I think it is one of the best games of the year, I think Stanamaka Studio is one of the best developers in the world. *21:13* Like, I have nothing bad to say about the game when it comes to those aspects. *21:19* The stuff that is complex for me is where the game goes in terms of story *21:26* And it's not even that I have pro this is this is what's weird for me. *21:34* I don't even have problems with the story that this game tells or where it *21:37* Takes things because I think it's really good and I think Kratos has a fantastic character arc in this game and it's really satisfying. *21:42* I like how his storyline ends, and I like how Atreus' storyline ends. *21:48* And you're already making faces and eye movements and things. *21:52* I'm just thinking. *21:55* I think for me and you, and this is why I wanted to touch on this up front. *21:57* You and I hypothesized and theorized about this game so much. *22:02* Drastically more than the average person who played this game. *22:07* Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. *22:10* And I think that *22:11* warped our perception of what this game would be. *22:14* And I'm curious if you feel the same way. *22:17* Because I had a lot of expectations and ideas for what I thought this game would be. *22:19* And a lot of those did not come to pass. *22:25* And that's not a bad thing, but I just had my ex the expectations subverted by the game we got instead *22:27* I yeah, we definitely we talked about this game all the time. *22:37* every day practically leading up to its release, especially coming off of playing every God of War game the year prior. *22:45* So we were in the Kratos zone. *22:52* And we both read Neil Guiman's Norse mythology book. *22:55* Like we were we were in the weeds, man. *22:59* And we were super stoked to play this game. *23:02* and see how they would portray the events of Ragnarok. *23:06* So many pieces were set up in 2018. *23:09* It's like, how do we get to Ragnarok and how does that how do those dominoes fall? *23:11* And but I did go into the game because w I really wasn't watching the trailers or reading too much or anything outside of just conversation with friends. *23:17* You watched one trailer because I nagged you two, basically. *23:26* Yeah. *23:30* So I was I did go into the game fully willing to accept whatever narrative they wanted to tell and ov *23:31* The narrative they tell is good. *23:42* I just don't think it necessarily works that well. *23:44* in a video game. *23:49* I'm sure it will make a fine season of TV someday. *23:51* I don't know if it works. *23:55* I think my biggest problem is that it doesn't work that well as a Ragnarok story. *23:56* This is when you say when you invoke Ragnarok in Norse mythology, my brain immediately starts running rampant with big, big ideas of what's gonna happen. *24:02* And *24:15* Things are gonna hit the wall and it's gonna be like I I I I I was in a lot of ways expecting this game to be like 30 hours of chaos. *24:17* Like and and and they can't keep up that pace, and I understand that. *24:25* But what it really was at the end of the day, and this is why I'm not upset with the game or mad at it, because I think it's my own expectations that let me down. *24:29* This is very much a sequel to God of War. *24:38* Like duh. *24:42* Duh. *24:43* Like this is what I would say. *24:45* The first game felt very small in scope, had a limited limited characters. *24:46* A lot of the storytelling was through only a handful of characters and things like that. *24:50* And they brought in the *24:53* number of characters that are involved in this game, but they it all all times keep Ragnarok character driven, character focused, and about smaller, intimate moments rather than the grand *24:55* Norse world around Kratos and Atreus. *25:06* They keep it focused on those characters and how they are responding to what's happening around them. *25:09* And in that sense, I feel like it's a smart move that they went in with this game, and it is very much a sequel *25:13* to 2018's God of War. *25:19* So I can't I think I was expecting this to be more like God of War 3 levels of craziness. *25:21* Sure. *25:29* Like that was the expectation I had. *25:30* Coming into this. *25:33* And it's not. *25:33* And that's fine. *25:34* But I was expecting a larger scale. *25:36* And that, and like, and the thing is, is like this game still has some of the craziest moments I've ever seen in any video game. *25:39* Like it's a *25:44* I does it I mean yeah the Thor opening that opening boss fight is one of the greatest boss fights I think in the history of video games if I'm being honest. *25:45* It is it's awesome. *25:53* It's so good *25:55* Th mechanically, yeah, it's good. *25:57* And they do some really great creative stuff. *25:59* They go some Hideo Kojima level, just breaking immersion. *26:00* type things. *26:05* Well he throws Kratos out in the middle of a lake and then he has to call his axe, so he's like the first whole phase of the fight, all he has is his fists and he's fighting Thor and he's waiting for his axe to get to him and then it eventually *26:06* Skyrockets into his handshot. *26:16* That's cool. *26:18* It's a great start. *26:19* And then they never get back to that. *26:20* Yeah. *26:22* They never catch up to their initial momentum. *26:22* They it's they f they try so hard to fight every expectation of *26:26* both Ragnarok itself as a an event in Norse mythology, and their own pedigree as a studio, and their o the the shadow of their previous games looming over them. *26:36* With God of War 3 specifically, I think, and just if we're gonna bring it all down, we can't do that. *26:50* How do we elevate and mature that? *26:56* And they fight it actively the whole way. *26:58* And I don't think they win that fight in the end. *27:02* And it's not that I would have preferred this game to be bonkers balls to the wall the entire time. *27:05* It's more *27:11* I think they just miscalculated where to take it narratively and gameplay-wise. *27:13* I think there's a huge *27:19* I would disagree with that, and this is where I think our expectations were the problem. *27:27* Is because a lot of the things you're saying, like *27:32* Uh the game doesn't match up with the story like with the storytelling and things like that. *27:35* Dude, Kratos doesn't want any of this to happen in the game. *27:39* And that is *27:42* You are reminded of that constantly. *27:43* He does not want a ward. *27:45* He does not want Ragnarok. *27:46* He's not trying to he does he is not trying to engross himself in this stuff. *27:47* He's trying to protect his kid and he's trying to make sure they're safe. *27:51* And he doesn't want anything else to come to pass where he cannot help it. *27:55* And And then he goes on and kills everyone. *27:59* Not really. *28:04* Like he pretty has to. *28:05* He he he he's always like I've been put in this situation where I have to kill people. *28:08* He is not doing it he is not doing it from a the difference is his motivation *28:13* He's not doing it from a God of War 3 place of Kratos' murder. *28:17* He's like, I want to tear down the panthole. *28:21* Yeah, I I want to kill you all. *28:23* You're all corrupt. *28:25* You all need to die. *28:26* You're gonna die at my hand. *28:27* It's a totally different thing. *28:28* He's thrust into these situations against his will, and it's like, well, th what's he gonna do? *28:30* Of course, I mean he gets attacked by uh Yes. *28:34* With by Heimdahl. *28:37* Of course he's gonna fight back. *28:39* Of course he's gonna *28:40* Like and then he kills the bigger. *28:41* I think that is a huge, huge issue. *28:42* I mean that's a like situation. *28:46* No no no. *28:48* Just Kratos the whole *28:48* We don't want Ragnarok to happen. *28:50* We're masters of our own fate. *28:52* And then Ragnarok happens, and they're not masters of their own fate until the very end of the game after Ragnarok has happened. *28:54* after Atreus leaves, and then it's the Adventures of Kratos and Freya, which is actually where the narrative and the gameplay aligned for the first time in the entire game. *29:02* To like I know coming from me this is gonna sound *29:13* Uh like of course, so obvious. *29:17* But like the there is a lunar narrative dissonance here where it's like, I don't want to kill anyone, and then you go kill everyone. *29:19* Yeah. *29:26* And it's it's like *29:27* The whole game. *29:29* It's kind of like Aloy in Horizon. *29:30* Oh, I have no friends. *29:33* I'm a loner. *29:34* And then she has all these friends and she's mean to them. *29:35* And it's just like *29:38* I don't like this version of Kratos paired with this gameplay because it's like, well, I guess I gotta go over here and do that, even though I'm actively saying I'm fighting fate. *29:40* And I do make my own decisions, and then every decision they make leads to the fate that was predicted. *29:51* Uh what how many instances in this game are there where Kratos, I guess, is going out of his way *29:58* To be the aggressor. *30:03* I'd say it's almost non-existent. *30:05* He's always the he's always on his back foot, like and he's the one getting attacked, and he just has to defend himself. *30:07* Like there are not instances where he has old Kratos in this game and he's going at people necessarily. *30:13* That's not the problem. *30:21* It's just more the *30:22* The gameplay side of it. *30:24* It's just like, well, guess we gotta kill everybody, but he's just talking about how he doesn't want to kill anybody or go to war. *30:25* And by the end of the game, he's a general again. *30:31* It's just *30:35* They kinda it's like they just beat you over the head with he doesn't want this, he doesn't want this. *30:36* Now for thirty hours go and do this. *30:40* And I'm just not *30:42* feeling it until the end of the game. *30:43* Your complaint you sound like me with The Last of Us Part Two. *30:45* It'll weird like it's cause *30:50* These game those those two games are very similar in mechanically of what they're trying to do with you play as these characters and now are you in their shoes. *30:53* The only time it lines up is at the end where it's him and Freya going off, saving the realm and saving the people and actually being good *31:02* gods, uh gods that people look up to and like Odin said in the speech after you get the spear, you know, a god that people pray to and worship and things like that. *31:11* Like Kratos can do good for people. *31:19* That's when it lines up because suddenly *31:20* Well, these bad guys are in this realm, and I've gotta clear this out to save these these people in the realm, or I put this part of the realm back together. *31:23* Suddenly everything lines up as soon as the conflict is removed. *31:30* from, oh my gosh, how do we avoid fate? *31:34* It's when Kratos, which he has this good arc of realizing *31:37* that he can be something different, and that is a good God, which I mean, arguably he was that in the last game *31:42* But he just didn't realize that for himself. *31:50* He hadn't forgiven himself yet for what he'd done. *31:52* And th this game I think is about him if the last game was about *31:55* verifying that his character is now different. *32:00* This game is about him learning to accept that for himself and forgive himself and realize that he is different from he used to be *32:02* Yes. *32:10* And wanna tug on one n thematic thread throughout this game, which is fate. *32:11* And we've talked about this a couple times. *32:15* This would be the one element of the game that I did have problems with for multiple reasons. *32:17* One reason would be that it does really beat you over the head with this idea constantly of fate, fate, fate. *32:22* Like the whole game is hing hinges on this *32:28* Largely because of what happened at the end of the last game with Kratos seeing his own death and then Atreus seeing his death and so like and that's kind of a weird m part in this game too where *32:30* Atreus is freaked out by something that Kratos already knows, but us as the player know that he knows and it's like, can we just get everybody on the same page here? *32:39* And like eventually that happens. *32:48* But that that's kind that was kind of a strange point for me as a player because you have *32:50* knowledge of what each of these characters have knowledge of, but they don't know that themselves. *32:54* So but the fate thing for me was something they already *32:59* Maybe not to the degree that they do in this game, obviously, but it's something that's touched on a lot throughout God of War 2. *33:04* And Kratos invokes it a couple times, most noticeably *33:10* when they go to find the fates of the Norse realm because he's like, well, I've found fates before. *33:15* Like let's just do that again. *33:21* And he he has a couple moments like that throughout the game where he's like, well, you know *33:23* I I I don't care what fate says, like I've I've defied fate before, like he he mentions it periodically, but it really was for this game to be all about *33:27* Uh just that three-line thread of our fate is what we make it. *33:35* It's like, okay, but we've we've kind of done this God of War arc before. *33:39* Like we've we we've touched on a lot of this stuff with Kratos, and now it's just like we're bringing Atreus through these same things that *33:42* uh uh that Kratos already learned. *33:49* And like even today I sent you a article from I forget who it was from. *33:52* I think maybe Washington Post and Eric Williams was interviewed and asked about *33:57* If uh it was ever even considered that they would kill Kratos in this game, he's like, oh no, that was nothing that was ever even close to being on the table. *34:00* It's like so with that in mind, they really are just *34:06* This idea of fate being something that Kratos can uh upend and like he has a say in his own destiny is really just ground that they've already tread within this series. *34:10* And I get that that was ground that was *34:19* tread 15 years ago and a lot of people like you and I aren't as familiar with that. *34:21* So in that sense I think it's fine, but *34:26* Us having replayed God of War 2 last year, I think it stood out to me a little bit more as something we had already been through. *34:29* And I felt like it was rehashing something that we had already kind of *34:36* Gone through with Kratos. *34:40* It's like an episode of That's So Raven, where they saw their future and they actively try to fight it, and in the end they get to it anyway. *34:42* And *34:52* Well you have to. *34:54* I think it's a good thing. *34:55* Well that's the problem. *34:55* That's the problem with this game as a whole, too. *34:56* It's literally called God of War Ragnarok. *34:58* And the whole game is them like, we can't have Ragnarok happen. *35:02* It's like *35:04* Well, I know Ragnarok is gonna happen because it's on the title of the box. *35:05* Yeah, and I th we'll touch on I think the event of Ragnarok within the game as well. *35:09* But the *35:14* This whole the game starts with like, uh, we gotta like fine tier to like figure out what to do and how do we change fate or whatever. *35:15* And then they find a new prophecy. *35:24* Like Atreus is out here finding prophecies, it's like, ah, look, we have a different version of fate where we win. *35:26* And it's it's like W why do we keep chasing the thing that we say we don't *35:32* Need that actually has no control over our life. *35:39* I did like the prophecy of him ending up aligning with Odin. *35:42* I like that. *35:47* Because that freaked him out a lot. *35:48* Less so of him being the champion of the army of armies or whatever. *35:50* And he's like, I think this is me. *35:54* I like *35:55* I like the idea of Where he goes and helps Odin. *35:56* Yeah. *35:58* Where he goes to help Odin because that's like classic Norse stuff too. *35:59* It's like he has no family left, so he goes and he lives with *36:02* the the as guardians. *36:05* Like I like that a lot. *36:07* That's the other part of the fate that this game really struggles with is dealing with the Norse pedigree and how do they subvert those expectations. *36:09* Because we have things like Loki and Odin having some sort of relationship. *36:19* Loki and Thor. *36:24* The way they do Loki and Thor is actually super smart and great. *36:25* That's *36:28* Wonderful. *36:30* Sending them on little adventures. *36:31* It's it was exactly like the old Norse stories that we read. *36:32* And so you have those expectations in fate itself of *36:36* How do we do this? *36:40* There's some really cool subversions with mythology there. *36:41* And I think that was more engaging than subverting the idea that *36:45* You know, Kratos has to go kill all these gods. *36:50* It was more interesting to me, like, how do they take uh is it Seder? *36:53* No. *36:58* Um, who's the fire dude? *36:59* Surter. *37:01* Surter. *37:02* I k I knew it was something like that. *37:03* Like having Surter become Ragnarok. *37:05* That was an interesting, really cool way they used that to subvert that part of the prophecy. *37:07* That was fun. *37:12* And the things with *37:13* You know, freeing Freya, Odin looking for things. *37:15* It's just they had more fun, I think, manipulating the Norse side of it than actually *37:19* manipulating their own studio and God of War previous expectations over it. *37:25* And it just I think the game really struggles and it's disjointed in a lot of places that way, narratively speaking. *37:30* The one *37:37* The one thing narratively we really haven't touched on is Atreus. *37:39* Well, okay, so this is what I want to do. *37:43* I want to go down the full cast of characters in this game and briefly briefly talk about the each of their arcs. *37:45* Not *37:52* Not all of them. *37:53* Like again, because I feel like this is the just the easiest way to touch on the narrative threads. *37:54* And let's just start with Kratos, because duh, and we've talked about Kratos a lot. *37:59* Is there anything else you want to say with him? *38:03* Because I feel like *38:04* I love where he ends this game. *38:06* I think his ending of this game is so well earned. *38:08* It's one of the best moments of either of these games. *38:11* For all my problems with this game, I do truly love the final. *38:15* 30 minutes of this game. *38:19* It's excellent. *38:21* And that final scene with him and Atreus and Loki will go, Atreus will stay, and he points to himself. *38:22* Like it's so *38:28* powerful and good and then him having the final moment where he sees the final prophecy and he realizes like oh my god I'm painted by fine life *38:29* Yes, which was painted by his wife. *38:39* Like as far as like expect expectations being subverted, they didn't do anything with Kratos in this game that I didn't expect. *38:49* Like I did not think he would die. *38:57* I thought he would get through Records unscathed. *38:59* Like uh them setting up Atreus to be the new protagonist and other games. *39:01* Like a lot of these things I expected in some ways. *39:05* But I'm totally fine with how they set it all up. *39:08* And Kratos is here now. *39:10* And he's they can use him whenever they want him again want to again. *39:12* Like, and I like that. *39:16* And I don't know *39:17* I don't know what they do with him moving forward. *39:19* Or maybe we can talk about this at the end, like where does the series go from hen here broadstroke stuff? *39:21* Um But yeah, do you I don't know how much you have to say about Kratos. *39:26* C no Kratos the end is definitely earned. *39:30* I think uh there's *39:35* Him learning to be a dad to a a man, like a young man, instead of the father to a boy, I think is a very good *39:40* arc for him personally, and those moments do pay off because there are different moments in the story and gameplay where you know he tries to do something the way he would have done it in 2018 or even in previous God of War games. *39:53* And that doesn't necessarily work. *40:06* And so it's learning to adjust and how to be a better father, a better general, a better friend. *40:09* Yeah, trust his son, trust people around him, earn forgiveness and trust amongst his own peers. *40:18* That elevates him to the status of general. *40:23* I think those things do end up paying off personally for Kratos. *40:25* Uh he's definitely the strongest character in the game, and that makes sense. *40:29* He's the lead character. *40:33* He's the main person. *40:35* So you Kratos *40:36* Earned. *40:38* Good boy, Kratos. *40:39* Good job. *40:40* Other other scene that stands out, the two best scenes of the game. *40:40* The end in scene, obviously the opening scene with Thor and Odin and all them is great too. *40:43* But was like it was like emotional impact moments, the when they're on in hell after dealing with Fenrir, the wolf, and then they they're talking there and uh *40:47* It's the first time they've come together after Atreus has run off to Asgard. *40:58* Yes. *41:01* And he comes back and they finally get a moment to talk. *41:02* And Kratos is like basically like, I'm sorry for what I did. *41:04* It kind of pushed you out and made you run off. *41:07* And he's like, Don't be sorry, Dad. *41:09* Just be better. *41:10* It's like, oh, it's so good. *41:11* It's so good. *41:12* It's so perfect. *41:13* And even Kratos thinks it's perfect too because he looks over and he smiles at him. *41:14* I mean he's like, I taught him that. *41:18* I know that. *41:19* I know where you got that from. *41:20* And that section of gameplay where they do come back together, which does feel really good because you've spent so long with Atreus. *41:21* Oh my God. *41:30* Um *41:31* That moment is one I is probably my favorite in the game. *41:32* Where it is, we're gonna try it my way, dad, which is kind of the first half of the game, is we're gonna do everything Atreus says. *41:37* And then when that fails, Kratos is like, now we're gonna do it my way. *41:46* And then when that fails, it's like they come together to come up with a solution. *41:51* That is the *41:56* That is my favorite part, honestly, of the whole game. *41:57* That whole section with Fenrir. *42:00* And it pays off the beginning of the game too with the dog death. *42:02* Like having that actually be *42:05* The way Fenrir is big boy is great. *42:07* So that actually that whole section has a lot of payoff. *42:11* Well, it makes the ending that much more impactful too when you do see them *42:14* split apart, like to agree to like Atreus is like, I gotta go, I gotta do my own thing now 'cause it's like, oh, we've just had this resolution and you guys have come back together and w you know how to work together now better than you ever have before. *42:19* And so it's like *42:31* It does feel painful to like see Atreus go away, even though he'll get his own game where he's turning into a wolf boy running around everywhere. *42:32* Uh let's talk about Atreus a little more obviously. *42:39* And I want to talk about let's talk about him on a gameplay front too, in addition to his arc. *42:41* There's a there's it's so much to touch on here. *42:47* Um first thing I'll say Sunny Soldier's Soljuk does a great job in this game. *42:49* I think his performance is way better in this game than even the last one. *42:53* He's really *42:56* Come into his own it is an actor. *42:58* Do you disagree? *42:59* I didn't like it at really I didn't think it was better. *43:01* I thought he did really, really good. *43:04* I've I have a lot of beef with Atreus in this game, actually. *43:06* motivations and his headstrongness in this game makes sense. *43:18* The one thing that I think I struggled with the most is them justifying the reason to m or their decision to make him Loki. *43:22* Because when that it was a it was revealed at the end of the last game, that brought a lot with it. *43:32* And you immediately have a lot of ideas in your head of what this means, what this'll look like, and I think they'll they'll still explore *43:38* what that looks like for him in future games, which he'll clearly be in. *43:46* But I did not get there's there was I I was I was waiting in this game for there to be a *43:50* God of mischief moment with him. *43:58* And that really never comes to pass in any sort of way. *44:01* Like I I kept thinking about this. *44:04* Like, okay, if he's low-key *44:06* Loki's like Loki's the god of mischief. *44:07* Loki's gonna screw things up. *44:10* Loki's a liar. *44:11* Loki's playing all sides. *44:12* Loki's and it uh his only real connection to Loki is he turns into Animal Boy. *44:13* And that's about it in a lot of ways. *44:19* And then some of the other things we talked about, like him going on adventures with Thor and being tied to the Asgardians, but even the way they tie him to the Azgardians is kind of in a weird. *44:21* Roundabout way where Odin's tr yeah, Odin's trying to use him for his own gain. *44:31* So it's it's like and it's different, but I I I wanted *44:36* I wanted some of those classic core character elements of Loki to be more present in Atreus, and that never really happened. *44:41* So by the end of the game, I was like, okay, well, why did they make him Loki within this Norse realm? *44:47* I I I I don't know. *44:53* I d I don't know if they really justified it within this game that decision at the end of the first game. *44:54* I I think it's just for cool effect. *45:03* I uh Atreus *45:06* is so I think one note. *45:11* I don't think Atreus is any different from the start of the game to the end of the game. *45:14* The only thing that's different for him is he actually has to face the consequence of some of his choices. *45:19* which mostly uh reveals itself in his relationship with arguably his best friend Sindri completely being dissolved. *45:25* But Atreus *45:34* Beyond that, I don't think Treus really changes all that much, grows all that much. *45:36* He kind of gets off *45:43* Every mistake he makes, except for the Sindry stuff. *45:45* He has a little girlfriend by the end. *45:48* He gets to go off and find and save the giants. *45:50* He was buddies with Thor for a little bit. *45:53* He uh *45:56* Is there really no consequence for his relationship with Odin or sneaking off and doing any of that stuff? *45:58* There was no confrontation with Heimdell for him. *46:05* His dad ended up dealing with that. *46:08* Atreus just makes his own decisions from the very beginning of the game and *46:11* Just gets the happy ending minus one friend. *46:19* Two friends, I guess, for Brock. *46:23* I will say Atreus plays a key role in sort of *46:25* um mending the relationship between Freya and Kratos and Freya and himself. *46:28* Like he him sneaking off to go speak to her. *46:33* Not that that ends *46:36* well in the moment. *46:37* Like she separates the two of them and he has to end up going back to uh Brock and Sindri's house afterwards. *46:39* But he kind of sets into motion *46:44* Sure, sets it into motion. *46:47* Sure. *46:48* Sets into motion them b then becoming peaceful with Freya once again, which obviously becomes hugely important because she's even more pivot pivotal in this game than *46:49* she uh was in the first game. *46:58* So I just I've so you've got all that. *47:01* Plus his just boyish tendencies of *47:05* Just bull kind of bull rushing into things, which I suppose young men do. *47:08* But then you take all of that narratively, which I'm just not super a fan of. *47:13* And then you pair it with, I don't know, ten plus hours of gameplay just as Atreus, and it's like So let's talk about that. *47:19* Did you so *47:26* At first I was like, oh, this is cool. *47:27* This was the Ellie and Winter moment of like, oh, cool, I get to play as the other character. *47:29* This is fun. *47:35* It's the first time *47:35* That's ever happened in the whole series. *47:37* That you've played as a different character. *47:39* Mm-hmm. *47:41* Yep. *47:42* You have never played as another character. *47:42* I mean it's cool at start. *47:44* And then you're like, oh *47:46* These sections are kind of long. *47:48* Oh, his combat's just not as good. *47:51* The one that is the one that absolutely overstays its welcome is Ironwood. *47:55* Ironwood. *48:00* Ironwood. *48:01* And I think what's it the climb up to Asgard, I think is I get it. *48:02* I didn't think that was that bad. *48:07* Oh, I was it was like nails on a chalkboard. *48:09* He just keeps talking about it. *48:11* That's like only like a fifteen minute section, I feel like. *48:12* He does keep talking. *48:15* It felt like an hour. *48:16* He was like, oh it's so tall. *48:17* Oh I hope I don't fall. *48:18* Oh *48:20* You're Raven, help me. *48:22* I don't know. *48:24* I was like, dude, you've gotta stop. *48:25* And this wasn't like Nathan Drake making a joke. *48:27* This was like *48:29* You've gotta shut up, kid. *48:31* I can't take it anymore. *48:33* He's just ugh his sections were far too long. *48:35* And I think take up too much. *48:40* And it's you know, in games where you play as a different character, Metal Gear Solid 2 *48:42* The Last of Us Part 2, which are probably the most prevalent recent examples, those are either all the way or like halfway through the game. *48:48* The thing with Atreus is they keep *48:56* inserting them and there's even a part because they have to. *48:59* His I mean his moments are key to the game. *49:02* Like I get it. *49:05* But it's just so *49:06* They're too long. *49:08* Like they're the same thing. *49:09* Ironwood is lengthy, but they have to establish Angry Boda as a character and his relationship with her and have him learn more about the giants and all like there are like I get it. *49:10* But did I need to sit on the back of a yak for thirty minutes getting fruit? *49:20* Yeah, that's yeah. *49:25* No. *49:26* But that's a like carrot. *49:26* Did I need to climb the wall *49:28* Could Odin have just teleported me up there? *49:29* I like climbing the wall, so I don't have as much of an issue with that one. *49:32* The wall was important because it established later on like *49:36* the little the townspeople down below and when Odin starts to destroy Dragon Rock. *49:39* Who cares about the townspeople the Mid Guardians at the base of Asgard? *49:45* Wow *49:49* You are you are you're Kratos you're Kratos circa God of War III right now. *49:49* Oh my gosh. *49:53* Who like what do they what do they do narratively? *49:54* Atreus learns to curse. *49:59* This is this is uh this is the call. *50:01* Establish how bad of a guy Odin is so his granddaughter understands. *50:04* They pull the fast and furious I'm an evil villain card. *50:08* Like they can be entirely cut out. *50:13* Goodbye. *50:16* What they were was the representation of of uh denizens of Asgard that were not fleshed out as much within the Greek God of War games *50:18* Because in the Greek God of War games, I mean you run across everyday people and you see them. *50:26* And then you murder them and get orbs from them. *50:30* The most in God of War 1, I know, for sure. *50:32* But in God of War 3, you're killing people. *50:35* I mean you're you're destroying the whole pantheon and the whole realm. *50:37* You're giving the people free will. *50:41* Arguably Kratos does more for the people in God of War Three than he does here. *50:42* I don't know. *50:47* When he kicks uh when he kicks *50:48* When he kills uh Poseidon and he kicks him down to the base of the of the of the Mount Olympus and then he floods the whole area. *50:50* I don't know about that one. *50:59* Or when he kills Helios and the sun goes dark. *51:01* Ah! *51:05* Oh, the night they now have free will, but it's dark forever here. *51:06* Remember when he put the sun back in Chains of Olympus? *51:09* Good times, good times. *51:12* It's uh Atreus I just was sick of by the end. *51:14* I was happy to see him go. *51:18* I was the father who was ready for the kid to leave to go to college. *51:19* So what you're saying is you're not excited for Cory Barlog's Atreus the College Years video game. *51:22* I am not eager to play as Atreus again, no, because I think his combat is far shallower. *51:29* They they need to do a lot more with him combat-wise. *51:37* He doesn't have the heft, the impact, he just doesn't feel I don't mind that. *51:41* I don't mind them having him feel completely different from Kratos because he should *51:46* The problem is just that bow and arrow combat in a game that's primarily centered around hand-to-hand or melee combat just does not work. *51:51* It just did not feel good. *52:02* The whole game the whole game was designed. *52:03* Obviously, this game was based off of the same uh groundwork as the previous Scott of War game. *52:05* So they didn't like upend everything drastically with this from a combat level. *52:12* So it was still on that basis that they made the first time. *52:16* And they're like, well we'll we'll make Atreus a playable character and he's primarily *52:19* A bow boy and yeah, it it's just unfortunate. *52:23* Yeah. *52:28* I'm not a fan of Tris. *52:29* Okay, let's shift from talking about protagonists to antagonist. *52:31* And I want to start with Thor, because I think Thor might be the best character in the game other than Kratos. *52:36* It's the best arc. *52:41* Huh? *52:43* Rip the real one. *52:44* Yeah. *52:45* The uh rip the That's that's the biggest there's there's lot to unpack with Thor, and I can't separate it from how he dies *52:46* I d I don't know if you feel it the same way because he he gets such a good arc in this game and then just boom, gone. *52:56* And that's part of the viciousness of Odin that they're trying to establish, but at the same time *53:02* Uh like it's just too quick. *53:08* They I think they waste it at the end. *53:11* They give they build, they build, they build, they get to it. *53:14* And then they just waste it. *53:18* It's just gone. *53:19* It's yeah, I thought he would at least get a moment where he tried to fight like *53:25* Like throw blows with Odin or something like that. *53:28* Or maybe he's the ally temporarily for the fight before of battle. *53:31* Sure. *53:37* I'm fine with Thor dying. *53:37* I'm not fine with him dying immediately after being realizing, oh, I can be a good dad. *53:39* He basically *53:45* He basically has the God of War 2018 arc of how to be a dad. *53:47* No, he has the God of War II arc of I have daddy issues and I don't know how to deal with them. *53:52* Yeah. *53:58* So Thor *53:58* Wonderful performance, a great charisma character, weight in combat. *54:00* It's all there. *54:05* Both of his boss fights *54:06* among the best in the game, if not the best in the game. *54:08* First one's the best in the game, for sure. *54:11* Second one I'm cool. *54:14* Second one's a little rehash, but everything that everything they're saying *54:16* I mean, those boss fights are amplified by everything him and Kratos are screaming at each other the whole time, which makes them so much better. *54:19* I do think *54:26* The Kratos or the Thor and Atreus Adventures, while cool narratively and *54:28* uh just fun to experience. *54:36* Mechanically, I think Thor is pretty lackluster there as an ally, even though he's not technically your ally there. *54:38* He's just *54:44* Using you to find this mask thing. *54:45* Yeah, they don't want to make it to where he's just, you know He does everything for you, but he's in everything and yes. *54:47* But I think he could have done a little bit more, and also having him smash the wall all the time was just like, alright, I get it, like you break things for me, like *54:53* At the end of the day, they gotta go into video gamey territory, which kind of sucks. *55:01* They do a good job with him with Magni and Modi and the the down the out *55:07* Ah, what do you call it? *55:13* The consequences of that were, you know, he beat uh Modi. *55:14* I think. *55:19* I think Modi is the one that he beats within an inch of his life because they failed to kill Kratos. *55:20* And then his daughter *55:25* Throod. *55:27* Throughd. *55:28* I knew it was a th. *55:28* That's an interesting relationship, although through I'm not as thrilled about just her little thing of I'm gonna be a Valkyrie. *55:30* Yeah, I feel like she doesn't get a lot of *55:37* Depth other than I want to be a Valkyrie, I want to prove to my mom and dad I can fight. *55:39* I I I I think I think Throod is more interesting as a character based on how *55:45* Thor and Sif view her rather than her herself, if that makes any sense. *55:51* Because Yeah, it's more the people around Throod than Through herself. *55:56* Yeah, because Through to them represents *55:59* Uh another opportunity to not yeah, second chance, an opportunity not to fail. *56:02* Weird weird. *56:07* Like Atreus is a second chance for Kratos. *56:08* Whoa. *56:12* I so that's cool. *56:14* I like Sif and Thor's dynamic and like the story bits you pick up while being in Asgard about how they're gonna quit drinking and stuff, and then you see Thor backslide. *56:16* And that's has a narrative heft and weight to it. *56:26* Like those The whole the whole bar sequences. *56:29* Great. *56:31* The bar fight is pretty awesome. *56:31* So *56:34* All in all, Thor's cool, but I feel like he's underused. *56:36* Not enough screen time. *56:41* Yeah. *56:43* Thor, Thor is at the beginning of the game and the end of the game with like a cameo in the middle. *56:43* He gets it he gets in it a lot when, you know, Atreus is running around Asgard. *56:48* I'd be that's kind of the same for all of the Asgardians, though. *56:53* They're not in it *56:55* Like even Od Odin has the one sequence where he shows up like you mentioned after Thor gets or after Kratos gets the spear and then he's and then he pops in there and then that's about really the only time you see him *56:57* other than the instances where Atreus is actively going to Asgard to interact with them. *57:07* Yes. *57:13* It's so it's just a bit of a bummer. *57:13* That he's just not in it as much as you would have hoped. *57:16* And that I uh this is where I'll admit an expectation definitely let me down. *57:20* I think Thor *57:25* Thor and Kratos needed to interact more than twice. *57:28* Uh absolutely. *57:31* Well the whole reason that first scene is so good in the game is not even because *57:33* I mean the writing's great and the performances are great, but it it's just the tension around all of them being in the same room. *57:38* Yeah, it's it's the r yes, the reason that sequence is good is because that's the only real time they're all together the entire game until the very end. *57:47* And the whole game, there's a huge visual reminder of your fight with him at the start with the frozen lightning bolt. *57:58* And then you don't see him until the end of the game. *58:07* And it's just kind of a letdown. *58:11* And then that fight itself is a letdown because it is a rehash, an easier rehash of the first fight. *58:13* Here's the thing I will say, if Kratos and him cross paths too often throughout this game, I don't think they could have made Thor as good of a character as they did. *58:20* Like I think I think a lot of his character arc does hinge on him being separated from Kratos and somewhat isolated. *58:31* And then you've seen how he's abused by Odin as well. *58:38* So in that sense *58:41* The way that he is presented in the game and the way his character comes across, I think, is it was kind of necessary in some ways, but But it's all happening *58:43* Off the controller. *58:54* Like there's no Yeah. *58:55* It's all just cutscenes with him. *58:57* And they take him to a good spot, but it just feels like. *58:59* I want a bit more tension. *59:03* The whole the whole 2018 they talk about Thor, the whole game, and then you fight him twice. *59:06* Like there should have been a third fight or something. *59:13* Just uh *59:16* Here here's here's what I'm thinking in my head is what if they would have and this they weren't going to undo this because it was a big pillar of the last game *59:17* But what I I I think they were kind of limited with what they could present because they were tied to this idea of no cut camera. *59:26* Like, okay, what if we band in that and like you see a cutscene with Kratos and Trace and then it says like meanwhile over in Asgard you cut to see s *59:35* Different cutscenes of different characters in different parts of this realm and you could see what's happening like you're only ever presented what is happening through the eyes of Atreus or Kratos. *59:43* And that's it. *59:52* And in some ways that makes them more impactful as characters because you're only following their journeys. *59:53* But that's that's the same problem though of it not happening in gameplay. *59:58* Like *01:00:02* And w do I really care that Thor is at the bar drinking or running around killing people? *01:00:05* Like, no, that's not progressing things. *01:00:11* So, for his character at least. *01:00:15* s i the time he makes progress is when he's with Atreus. *01:00:17* So I just I Thor just felt partially like a missed opportunity. *01:00:21* Mostly not enough screen time. *01:00:26* But where he when he is there, it's great. *01:00:28* And he definitely his life was cut too short. *01:00:31* By Odin, which we need to also talk about. *01:00:36* And we've talked about Odin here a little bit. *01:00:38* I I I like Odin *01:00:40* A lot in this game. *01:00:42* I like his performance a ton. *01:00:43* I think he's actually steals just about every scene he's in. *01:00:46* I I think Odin's *01:00:48* Performance by uh is it it's Richard Schiff, I believe. *01:00:50* Yes. *01:00:53* I think he steals br virtually every scene he's in in this game. *01:00:54* I *01:00:58* Don't like Odin's motivation, which is just, I need this mask. *01:00:59* I need this MacGuffin item. *01:01:04* Please go get this mask. *01:01:06* It's like, well, what does this mask do? *01:01:07* I don't know. *01:01:08* I just wanted to make knowledge of everything to control my fate. *01:01:09* He thinks that's what it does. *01:01:13* He doesn't even really know. *01:01:15* He's just like there's a pair, there's this thing, yeah, he had the one peak and it messed up his eye. *01:01:16* So like he has an idea. *01:01:21* But he doesn't know. *01:01:23* So you're like chasing this item, which will do a mysterious thing which isn't really contextualized. *01:01:25* Again, it's kind of like Fast and Furious Lair. *01:01:30* It's like we gotta prevent them from getting this weapon. *01:01:32* It's like, well, what does the weapon do? *01:01:34* I don't know, but *01:01:36* They can't have it. *01:01:37* And so and then the mask is based off of the mask. *01:01:39* Like the old *01:01:43* The best piece, that's the best tidbit in all of Ragnarok, is that it is wholly inspired by Jim Carrey's The Mask. *01:01:45* Which is very crazy. *01:01:52* Everything everything involving the mask *01:01:53* I I I just did not. *01:01:57* I like I and I I think I think Odin's character motivations make sense. *01:01:59* Like, where do we go once we die? *01:02:03* What happens to us? *01:02:05* Like, there has to be something beyond. *01:02:06* Like, he's *01:02:08* He he's plateaued within the As Guardian Pantheon and he's concerned about what's after. *01:02:09* And he's not concerned with the same things that everybody else is concerned about. *01:02:16* So like *01:02:20* As a character, I think it makes sense for him, but it's just too tied to this boring MacGuffin, which is the mask and his obsession with that. *01:02:21* And uh th that that was my main issue with Odin. *01:02:31* Everything else with Odin I think is w uh he's so conning. *01:02:34* He's su uh you really do *01:02:38* Like, I don't know about you, but when you were doing the As Guardian sections of this game as a trace, was it were you was it starting to go through your head like, is Odin really bad? *01:02:40* No like it was it was for me. *01:02:48* Like like has *01:02:51* He been properly conveyed to us? *01:02:54* Has Mamir been lying? *01:02:56* Like, what if Frey is all and and and at the end of the day, I knew, like, no, that can't be true. *01:02:58* But like, he is *01:03:04* He's a convincing liar in this game, I will say. *01:03:07* He is the one character that is most bound *01:03:11* By Norse mythology here and expectation. *01:03:17* There's no chance for him necessarily to break outside of *01:03:22* I am Odin, I seek all knowledge, I will hurt and manipulate anyone to get said knowledge. *01:03:29* And *01:03:36* That's all I care about. *01:03:37* Like in Norse Smith, everything Odin does, from hanging himself to the eye thing to like transforming, all is about seeking knowledge about how to prevent his death. *01:03:38* or ascend beyond that in the case of this game. *01:03:49* So that's the one thing that they don't really break *01:03:52* Now they put their own flair on it with Richard and uh the performance and then this mask concept and things like that and the combat and things, but he's the most bound by it. *01:03:57* And I think that *01:04:09* I think it doesn't leave a lot of opportunity for his character to have *01:04:13* like a gripping arc. *01:04:21* I kinda fairly early in the game knew *01:04:23* What Atreus and Kratos were going to do with Odin at the end of the game. *01:04:29* I did not call Sindri becoming a cracked villain and totally smashing him. *01:04:33* Which is fantastic and totally shocking. *01:04:39* And we need to talk we need to talk about Vim in a moment. *01:04:41* We'll we'll get to them. *01:04:43* But I knew at the end of the game *01:04:44* Fair I knew fairly early, because all of this talk of we ch control our fate and we don't want to kill all the gods, it's like, alright, they're gonna make the choice to spare Odin. *01:04:48* So I knew they were going to come up with a way to spare him, but also contain him. *01:04:57* It's actually *01:05:03* Uh, I know you haven't seen the show, but it's very reminiscent of Avatar The Last Airbender and the solution that they come up with in that show to deal with the main antagonist. *01:05:05* Uh *01:05:16* And so I knew I that was was like, okay, cool. *01:05:17* I guess that was also part of the thing, was I knew that was where they were gonna go. *01:05:23* So I was already bound by the fate of their decision. *01:05:27* Well a lot of things in this game, like we talked earlier about the whole Fenrir sequence. *01:05:29* It's like, oh no, uh I forget what the wolf's name is before. *01:05:33* Gray something or garbage or something. *01:05:37* There's a G. *01:05:40* Yeah. *01:05:41* Yeah. *01:05:42* Um it's on the tip of my tongue. *01:05:43* Maybe I'll think of it. *01:05:44* Uh Grom or Gram I don't know, something like that. *01:05:46* Anyway *01:05:49* Like that whole section too, it's like, oh I know what's gonna happen here. *01:05:50* They're gonna put the soul of Finrear who like as soon as Finrear die Garm, that's it, thank you. *01:05:52* Yeah, as soon as Garm shows up and they're like, oh no, we don't know how to kill this thing. *01:05:58* It's like, well, I mean, it even before that. *01:06:03* It was like as soon as Fenrir died at the beginning, you see the soul flight float out. *01:06:06* It's like, well. *01:06:10* That will be relevant later. *01:06:11* And then you meet a giant wolf. *01:06:12* Yeah. *01:06:16* And then you meet a giant wolf and you're like, well, I think I know how this will be relevant once again. *01:06:16* So big boy. *01:06:21* There's a lot of things that there was a lot of things that were *01:06:22* obvious in this game, not only because of just how the story was being told and you could easily guess what was gonna happen, but then there is the weight of, like you and I read a lot of *01:06:25* Norse myths and it's like, okay, well, there's things that have to happen here. *01:06:36* Like uh like even when I was talking to when I was talking to you as you were playing the game, you're like, I think I'm ready for Ragnarok. *01:06:41* I'm like *01:06:48* Well what things have you not done yet that are key to Ragnarok? *01:06:48* You're like, I haven't seen Surter yet, and I'm like, you have to do that. *01:06:51* Yeah. *01:06:56* Like there are things that need to happen in this game. *01:06:56* in order for Ragnarok to come to pass and for this story to be told and I mean Odin's death and whatever, containing him, like you said, is not one of those things necessarily, but there is a lot of stuff in this game that's like, Well, is it just has to happen, I guess, if they're telling the Ragnarok. *01:07:00* Story. *01:07:15* So but that is actually the other part of Odin's character that I figured out not fairly early, um, but not super close necessarily to the incident itself, uh, but the great twist. *01:07:15* uh which is that he is tear the entire time. *01:07:27* And don't worry, Tear's alive somewhere though. *01:07:31* Oh my gosh. *01:07:34* We'll talk about oh my god. *01:07:35* But the uh the idea was uh we haven't seen Odin transform yet, and that is that's a pillar of his character is that he travels the world him having ravens. *01:07:37* Yes. *01:07:48* So he like transforms and takes on the appearance of other people. *01:07:48* And when you go through the cast of characters, you're like, well, it doesn't leave a lot of options for who he would actually be. *01:07:52* Actually, there's only one option, which is tier. *01:07:58* Which was the outset of the game, which was planted firmly in a trace's head by Odin. *01:08:01* And so it it didn't Yeah. *01:08:09* I was like, oh, okay. *01:08:11* So when that twist happens *01:08:12* The reveal, I wasn't surprised. *01:08:15* I was has Brock dies. *01:08:17* Well yeah, I Brock dying was uh more shocking than the fact that Tyr was Odin. *01:08:20* Well somebody had to die and it wasn't gonna be Kratos. *01:08:25* Yeah *01:08:28* And it wasn't gonna be Atreus. *01:08:28* So So that that was definitely a situation where burying ourselves in Norse mythology bit us a little bit. *01:08:30* for shock and surprise. *01:08:39* So yeah. *01:08:42* Can we ac can we act let's actually when we were talking about it now. *01:08:42* Let's talk about Brock's death pick because I think that is my biggest problem with it is that *01:08:45* Ragnarok has to happen, so of course the stakes have to be raised. *01:08:50* So it's like, well s people have to die, but they kill off the most expendable characters on the cast. *01:08:53* Brock dies. *01:09:00* I don't wanna and that's not me selling Brock short. *01:09:01* I think they do it Brock and Sindry, they give uh so much characterization in this game, like threefold compared to the last game, honestly. *01:09:03* They do a lot with them. *01:09:10* Uh so they they are firmly in the spotlight throughout this game. *01:09:12* And Brock specifically the whole section with the mermaid and stuff and getting the spear made, they do a great job. *01:09:16* with uh his character arc in this game. *01:09:23* So him dying is not something that's like I I don't want to say I don't care about, but he is compared to the likes of, you know *01:09:25* Freya or Kratos or Atreus or like the core main even Mamir, I feel like. *01:09:33* Like there are some people that you just feel like *01:09:39* We're never on the table to die because like, well, we can't kill Kratos, he's the main protagonist. *01:09:43* Well we can't kill Atreus because he has to get his own spin-off games. *01:09:47* Well we can't kill Freya because she has to take over. *01:09:50* as the sidekick for Atreus once we write him out. *01:09:53* Oh you can't kill him Amir, he contextualizes the whole world that you're in. *01:09:55* It's like *01:09:59* It just felt like no one was ever really on the table to die of like the core four or five characters because they were too integral. *01:10:01* And so they're like, well, who's a little expendable? *01:10:08* Eh, Brock. *01:10:10* Eh, Freyer, I guess we'll kill him too. *01:10:12* We'll just invent another dwarf so they can make your armor and stuff. *01:10:15* Yes, yeah. *01:10:19* Exactly. *01:10:20* So I I think that's the only thing that sucks about *01:10:21* Brock's death is it it just felt like, yeah, okay, sad he died, okay. *01:10:24* But I don't know. *01:10:30* He I he he is the most expendable person in the cast that they could have killed for shock value, I guess. *01:10:32* Yes. *01:10:38* I'll say this though. *01:10:39* It is a payoff I think that uh comes to pass that they set up well before twenty eighteen came out with they had a little podcast series telling different Norse stories, and one of them was about *01:10:40* uh a dwarf dwarf brothers. *01:10:52* Uh one of them died and one brother went into the well of souls and found only three of the four parts and that's why this one brother is blue. *01:10:54* And so if you listen to that before 2018, you realize that that's Brock's injury. *01:11:04* And that's really cool. *01:11:08* And then that specific interaction of not getting all of the soul pieces back is integral to their little plot and *01:11:09* Fenrir and other stuff. *01:11:18* And so that actually is a pretty nice long payoff that I think works. *01:11:20* And they do, they really give Brock like a killer moment. *01:11:24* What's fascinating about that *01:11:28* is when and when we found out about this later. *01:11:31* Again, we're doing this a month or so after the games come out. *01:11:34* So a lot of uh *01:11:37* A lot of information from Santa Monica Studio has come out. *01:11:39* That was the one aspect of the game. *01:11:43* One of three things. *01:11:45* Of one of three things that Corey Barlock demanded had to happen in this game. *01:11:46* was that Brock has to die. *01:11:50* So when you talk about them setting that up a long time ago, very much so. *01:11:52* Like that was *01:11:57* Like he what were the three things he said? *01:11:58* The Brock dies, Ragnarok happens, and the Kraken Atreus leads Kratos. *01:12:00* Yeah. *01:12:04* So like I that's *01:12:05* Brock being the one to die though, it's a little surprising, but again, like you said, they set that up, that story in motion long, long time ago. *01:12:07* It would have been four or five years ago. *01:12:15* So makes sense. *01:12:17* While we're talking about the dwarf brothers, let's talk about Sindri as well. *01:12:19* Dude gets cracked. *01:12:23* Yeah, he does. *01:12:25* What a performance. *01:12:27* Honestly. *01:12:28* Like *01:12:29* He should have been nominated at the Game Awards because his transformation is incredible and scary. *01:12:30* And frightening. *01:12:40* The character model, his eyes. *01:12:41* Yeah. *01:12:44* I don't believe you've done it yet, but there is a funeral scene for Brock. *01:12:45* That's kind of the game's like true ending, little side quest, kind of like they did before. *01:12:49* Um obviously Sindry shows up there. *01:12:53* Man, what a performance. *01:12:57* He's the die hardman of this game. *01:12:59* It is. *01:13:02* It's so good. *01:13:03* And him showing up during Ragnarok, uh, both to break the wall and uh *01:13:05* When he shows up alone out of the Svarlheim gate, it's like no more dwarves are dying for this. *01:13:11* It's like, oh my gosh, what a *01:13:18* I mean I'm getting chills just talking about it. *01:13:21* And then when he teleports out of nowhere and just smashes Odin's little orb, I'm like, dang, man. *01:13:23* He's brutal. *01:13:30* I think the thing that's most shocking with him too, one of the moments we're not talking about is when after Brock does die, you have that section where Kratos and Atreus go to try to track him down. *01:13:31* And you th I I don't know about you, but for me I'm like, okay, so they're gonna *01:13:41* you know, talk him down, they're gonna get him back on their side, they're gonna get him back to come back to the house and get him on board and okay, we'll we'll avenge Brock now. *01:13:44* We'll *01:13:53* And no, he's like, get away from me. *01:13:53* I don't want to deal with you guys. *01:13:56* Like, and eventually he agreed he agrees to help, but it's not, but it's because he knows it's for the larger good of *01:13:57* of uh the Norse realm and not because he's trying to help Kratos or Atreus. *01:14:06* He has nothing that he wants to do with him anymore. *01:14:10* It's rough. *01:14:13* It is rough. *01:14:14* And it's they do a really another it's another thing that's earned because early in the game when you're playing as Atreus for the first time or two *01:14:15* Sindri is your partner, and it it's established that the two of them have built a really solid friendship in the intervening years, and it's just *01:14:24* They really elevate Sindri and Atreus' relationship, and so that is the one consequence Atreus has, which is *01:14:34* Atreus' decision led to the death of Brock, and Sindri will never forgive him for that. *01:14:41* And uh it's one of the most earned arcs, and it's *01:14:47* Nuts and I loved it. *01:14:52* I I let's touch on Freya. *01:14:54* Before we do, I want to touch on Mamir briefly because I don't think there's a lot to say other than just *01:14:57* I love Mimir. *01:15:02* I think he's maybe my favorite character in this entire game. *01:15:03* Mimir's the best. *01:15:05* He's he's the best by far. *01:15:06* And and I think they give him so many *01:15:08* They give him so many great moments in this game in ways that you wouldn't expect. *01:15:10* Like think of his whole side quest where it deals with him chaining up the whale-like thing in uh the dwarven realm, uh Spartal Time, I think. *01:15:14* Yeah. *01:15:23* Like that's a great quest for him that flushes hit him out, and he kind of finds uh I think Kratos finds that him and Mamir are more *01:15:24* alike than he previously thought, which makes them closer together. *01:15:34* And just the constant relationship between Kratos and Mamir. *01:15:38* Like they have a total bromance throughout this whole game, Kratos and Mamir. *01:15:41* But when you read some of the I one of my favorite notes in the whole game, and I I we talked about this when you first started playing it, but *01:15:49* All of the journal entries in the game are written from the perspective of the character that you're playing as in that given moment. *01:15:55* So like if you're playing as Atreus, all the journal entries are written from like Atreus wrote them. *01:16:00* And same with Kratos when you're playing as him. *01:16:05* And one of the and the entry for Mimir from Kratos' perspective says something like, He calls me brother and he is one of the only true people that I uh would like. *01:16:07* Uh he's one of the only poop people that I would recognize as a brother or something like that. *01:16:16* It's like, oh, Krylls loves Mamir, dude. *01:16:21* Like they are *01:16:24* They're real tight in this game and I love that. *01:16:25* Mm-hmm. *01:16:27* And and I I just think they have great rapport with one another. *01:16:27* I I I just like everything everything that Mamir does in uh the role that he serves in this game, I know he is very much just like a traveling *01:16:30* uh encyclopedia. *01:16:37* He's a talking head. *01:16:39* Yeah, he is. *01:16:40* He's a talking encyclopedia that doles out knowledge of the North Storm. *01:16:41* But he's so good. *01:16:45* And uh I forget his uh who plays him, but his his performance is *01:16:45* Uh fantastic. *01:16:51* I mean all the performances across the board, like I said earlier, are you. *01:16:53* Alistair Duncan. *01:16:55* Yes, Alistair Duncan. *01:16:57* I yeah, I just wanted to say that I love Mamir, and I don't know if you have anything else you want to add about him. *01:16:58* Well apparently he's the voice of Alfred in quite a few Batman animated films. *01:17:05* Interesting. *01:17:11* Huh. *01:17:12* Now I'm down this rabbit hole. *01:17:13* Mimir's great. *01:17:15* I just you know, I could listen to him talk all the time. *01:17:16* He is what he is. *01:17:19* Like he doesn't do anything drastically new or different in this game, but *01:17:20* I I I still he's one of my favorites. *01:17:25* Frey is the last character I think that's I mean, unless we want to talk about Tyr a little more in a second, but Frey is the last character that I think is really kind of important to discuss here briefly. *01:17:27* Um because she Queen. *01:17:37* Yeah, the Queen of the Valkyries is back and she's *01:17:40* How did you feel about her resolution with Kratos and Atreus? *01:17:46* Freya is the best. *01:17:51* Were you I I'm curious about this for you because this is the one thing we I mentioned earlier that when we did our predictions episode, I was like, oh I I think she'll *01:17:53* Eventually come around and realize that what Kratos did was And I was like, nah, she'll never forgive him. *01:18:02* Yeah, you're like, she'll never forgive him, she'll align with Odin, she'll go against them to the death. *01:18:06* And I'm like, nah, I don't think so. *01:18:10* Like she hates *01:18:11* Odin more than she hates Kratos. *01:18:13* Uh so she'll find a common the uh the enemy of my enemy as my friend or whatever. *01:18:15* So she'll align with Kratos for those reasons. *01:18:21* And that's kind of exactly what happens and their their relationship develops from that point. *01:18:23* Obviously the point that by the end of the game they are on very good terms and are friends essentially again, despite what Gary's. *01:18:27* Like partners, not in the romantic sense, but like true allies and partners in their quest to save the realm. *01:18:35* Uh Freya's Freya's arc is awesome. *01:18:42* I love it. *01:18:46* From the very opening of the game to the middle when you're in Alfheim and she you you're freeing her from Odin's scraps. *01:18:47* What a great *01:18:55* a great gameplay section and just segment of questing together and then fighting the need hog thing and freeing the roots from the tree and *01:18:57* Then you do the side quest for her and the stuff from their wedding day and those ornaments. *01:19:06* Truly some of the best stuff. *01:19:13* I texted you *01:19:15* During that part of the game and was like, more adventures of Kratos and Freya, please. *01:19:17* And guess what? *01:19:23* The post-game is the adventures of Kratos and Freya. *01:19:24* Yeah. *01:19:27* That is where I think truly the narrative and the gameplay align and things are it's back to that 2018 lineup of just everything is going together and pushing toward the same direction. *01:19:28* So the Freya Kratos combo of just being allies and her story there and her resolution, you know, to the point of giving up *01:19:42* being in charge of generals, her uh redeeming or meeting with the Valkyries, saving the people of her realm and of the Ace year and the Van year, all good stuff. *01:19:54* Freya *01:20:06* Yes. *01:20:08* More please. *01:20:09* I think the thing I like about the most about Frey, and this is maybe uh this is selling her as a character short, but I like how she plays off of Kratos as well. *01:20:10* Because Kratos, out of all characters in the game, other than maybe Mamir, Freya's the only person that Kratos feels *01:20:20* Like he can be vulnerable with to a degree and to be open with. *01:20:29* Like he that whole section in uh *01:20:33* In uh what is the realm that they're on? *01:20:37* Um The one of the wolves. *01:20:39* Yeah, the whole section in Vanaheim where he's basically just opening up to her and be like, I had a brother *01:20:41* I had a former wife and a daughter, and I killed it. *01:20:47* Like he tells her everything, and he's tell he's never told anybody these things. *01:20:49* And I mean he hasn't even told Atreus this stuff. *01:20:53* He may have told Mimir. *01:20:55* He may have told Namir, yeah. *01:20:57* That's what he has a dead sister. *01:20:59* Yes, yeah, exactly. *01:21:02* And so like he and it's be and he tells her these things because *01:21:03* He sees himself in her in a lot of ways. *01:21:06* And he feels like they've been on similar paths. *01:21:09* Kratos sees himself in a lot of people in this game, Thor too. *01:21:12* But he empathizes with where *01:21:15* Frey is at in the moment and he knows where she's at. *01:21:18* He knows exactly where she's at. *01:21:22* And she's yeah, because that's the whole point. *01:21:23* She's like, you can never know what's like the loose *01:21:25* A child. *01:21:27* He's like, oh yes I could. *01:21:27* And I can and I and it's worse than what you're dealing with. *01:21:29* And she's like, what? *01:21:33* Uh so like he's I I like I love how they play off of one *01:21:34* another. *01:21:39* And I think that's what makes her stronger as a character and Kratos stronger as a character is that the relationship and how it how it ties the two of them together. *01:21:39* And how, like you said, by the end of the game, it does feel very earned when they're partners and when they are *01:21:47* going to be the new d Asgard the new uh Norse duo that's running around and rebuilding the realm together. *01:21:53* Yeah. *01:22:00* It's earned, it's great. *01:22:00* She has a wonderful arc. *01:22:02* uh in both games and it's total payoff and I'm so glad that she is the sidekick by the end of it and *01:22:04* It's fun, man. *01:22:12* It's exactly what I wanted. *01:22:14* Uh from the midpoint of the game. *01:22:15* That's kind of what I was hoping we would get at some point. *01:22:17* And I'm glad that it's basically the the postgame. *01:22:19* It's honestly save as many side quests for the end as possible because then you can just hear dialogue between Frey and Kratos the entire time instead of Why you're Atreus hater. *01:22:22* I kinda am. *01:22:31* You you're very much an Atreus hater, I think. *01:22:32* Atreus hater in Ragnarok. *01:22:34* I love uh the it's a good thing you had daughters. *01:22:37* Or a daughter. *01:22:41* I should say daughter, a daughter, one daughter. *01:22:42* Another one on the way. *01:22:45* We have an announcement to make on this podcast tonight. *01:22:46* No. *01:22:49* To go along with Freya, though, I briefly, we've kind of done the rundown of all the characters. *01:22:50* Maybe we'll touch on Tears, the only other one I want to maybe flesh out a little bit more and talk about. *01:22:54* Before we do that, though *01:22:59* I I think all of the Vanaheim uh allies are so deh. *01:23:01* Yeah. *01:23:08* Wow, the cool one is the dude who jumps off and like takes two *01:23:09* Uh dragon's down with him. *01:23:12* That guy rules. *01:23:15* Did you do the quest for him? *01:23:16* I think so. *01:23:18* Because he's alive. *01:23:20* Oh, I did not do it then. *01:23:22* He survives and you save him. *01:23:23* Okay, then that's free sick. *01:23:26* Actually that the one it's the pig one. *01:23:27* Follow the pig and she leads you to where he is. *01:23:30* Okay. *01:23:33* And it opens up Vanaheim, has a whole open area *01:23:33* Like a whole I'm talking a lot. *01:23:38* Yeah, I haven't gone back to Vanaheim yet in this game. *01:23:40* Yeah, follow the pig and you will fuse he's alive and it's a great quest. *01:23:42* And he's it's so funny when you get to him. *01:23:47* It's great. *01:23:49* No, that guy's cool. *01:23:49* Uh Freyer is just kind of Freyer's whatever. *01:23:51* There. *01:23:55* Yeah, I don't know. *01:23:55* I like the dark elf and light elf. *01:23:56* They're just the *01:23:58* the proof that those two species can live together. *01:23:59* I I like that too. *01:24:02* I I like that as a conceptual thing more than I think I like them as characters. *01:24:03* Oh, I can tell you their names. *01:24:09* Yeah, it's it's less like, oh cool, okay. *01:24:11* So it's we do see that the uh the elves can coexist. *01:24:13* Yeah. *01:24:16* Um Freyer is the big one that is pushed this front and center, but I feel like he does nothing in the game other than to *01:24:17* Freya only exists to to die and to uh bring her back uh bring about resolutions for Freya's own character arcs that she goes through in this game. *01:24:24* And that's about it. *01:24:37* I'm fine with them using him. *01:24:39* Everything else you're told about Freyer is just, you know, Mamir stories and things like that. *01:24:40* Oh, I also love that the sword is his. *01:24:45* The talking sword is his. *01:24:47* Oh yeah, yeah. *01:24:49* That's like a fun little ah *01:24:50* Ingrid. *01:24:52* That it is his. *01:24:54* And then other than that, there's the pig man, which is a cool callback. *01:24:56* I told you that. *01:25:00* That's one of the funniest things. *01:25:01* Oh yeah, because I Pigman. *01:25:02* I told you this before I played the game. *01:25:04* And that was the funniest thing is like obviously I was not spoiling the game for you because I had played it before you, but the one thing I did say is I *01:25:07* Uh ah, the most important character in the game is the pig from the last God of War game. *01:25:14* You're like, ah wow, I can't wait to see that. *01:25:18* And then when you finally got to that point where he shows up, you're like, oh my god, he is in this game *01:25:20* That was very fun. *01:25:27* That was a good that was a good uh got a moment type thing. *01:25:28* Like he totally tricked me with that. *01:25:31* Tears the final character, and I know this is the one you have a big goal rant plan for or something. *01:25:33* Oh I'm a rant. *01:25:38* Maybe we can keep it condensed *01:25:39* It's not a big rant. *01:25:40* I just I this is one of those things where I don't *01:25:42* And I understand the whole point of it was that you were supposed to be surprised by Odin. *01:25:50* But I don't like how all of the marketing in this game centered around. *01:25:55* It's the same way I don't like that how PlayStation marketed The Last of Us 2 and they put fake Joel clips in parts of the game that he's not even in. *01:26:00* They're like, oh yeah, here he is in Seattle. *01:26:08* It's like, what? *01:26:10* No, he's play a game. *01:26:11* It's like, oh, he's dead. *01:26:12* Spoilers for Last of Us Two. *01:26:13* Gosh. *01:26:15* It's like like the they create fake cutscenes. *01:26:16* They create fake cutscenes for that game. *01:26:20* They didn't do that go to that extent here with Ragnarok. *01:26:21* Yeah. *01:26:25* No, they didn't do it. *01:26:25* But they put tier front and center in a lot of the early trailers for this game and like you know that that's gonna be a big huge pillar of the game up front. *01:26:27* Like *01:26:35* When we did our predictions at podcast, we were like, oh, well, we know like that's gonna be the first thing you do in the game is you're gonna have to go get tier. *01:26:36* And I was so excited to *01:26:43* Get him and then see how his character would evolve over the course of the game, especially when you first meet him, and he's like, Nope, I'm a pacifist now. *01:26:46* I can't do this. *01:26:52* And it's like, okay, well, but I know that won't stay the the this way the whole game. *01:26:53* Well and it does but it only does that because he's Odin, which again makes sense, but I was *01:26:57* You put the carrot there and you dangle it in front of me, and I thought there was gonna be a cool character arc for Tyr over the course of 15 to 20 hours, and there wasn't. *01:27:07* And then it's just this twist of, oh, I was never tear and then they come back around later, Oh, but the real tear is alive. *01:27:15* It's like, oh my god, well I can't *01:27:22* There's not th what is there to explore with him now? *01:27:24* Like, and there is nothing to really explore. *01:27:27* He's just in a kind of a couple scenes that you can come across. *01:27:28* And so it's it was I felt s I felt like we were so *01:27:31* robbed of having another great character in this game that would have because okay *01:27:35* I I I know you have so many of the same problems as me that I'm expressing here, but if they would have done the thing we were expecting where Tyr is in the game and he comes out at first and he's like, no, I'm a pacifist, I'm not leading the armies into Ragnarok, blah blah blah blah blah *01:27:44* And then over the course of 15 to 20 hours he does get to that point where he's like, Nope, I realize I have to take up arms against Odin and Asgard and we march. *01:27:55* Like, would you not have been like, yeah, let's go? *01:28:02* Like it would have been great it would have been awesome. *01:28:04* Yeah, yeah. *01:28:06* It's so good. *01:28:09* Especially because he's so he is he is like one of the biggest characters in the previous game, but you never see him. *01:28:09* So when you finally see him, you have all of these ideas and *01:28:15* Like, oh my god, this is Tyr. *01:28:18* I've heard so much about him. *01:28:20* It's just he's not that guy. *01:28:21* Because he's literally not that guy. *01:28:24* But that's that's what sucks, is like you wanted to meet the guy you've heard so much about. *01:28:26* I again it just felt t like total *01:28:30* bait and it was like it was almost like an Iron Man 3 situation where all again all the marketing the Mandarins in this the Mandarin the Mandarin and I know you love that. *01:28:33* movie I was gonna say Iron Man 3 is actually a good movie. *01:28:43* But I I guess that's similar to how I felt. *01:28:46* Is there it's like everything that was presented and like when you say Tier is going to be in this game *01:28:48* Tyr was such a big part of the previous game. *01:28:54* Like again, you never met him, but he was invoked constantly. *01:28:57* We knew so much about him from that game. *01:29:01* And I *01:29:06* Uh so I've I've had a problem with Tyr from before this game came out, because in God War 2018 it is implied that Tyr is dead the entire time. *01:29:08* And then the very first bit of marketing for this game is Tears actually alive and we're gonna go find him. *01:29:22* I'm like there was no evidence. *01:29:27* That's an easy thing to hand I will say it's an easy thing for them to hand wave because even Mamir says like *01:29:30* Well, who's the person who said Tear's dead? *01:29:35* Odin. *01:29:37* Well, what do we know about Odin? *01:29:37* He's a big liar. *01:29:39* I get it. *01:29:40* So it's like after 25, 30 hours of Tear is dead. *01:29:40* And the first thing is, Psych Tears alive. *01:29:45* We're gonna go find him, and then we're gonna take on Ragnarok. *01:29:48* It's like, ah, okay, whatever. *01:29:51* And then for him to just flatline the entire game as a pacifist soup maker, I'm like, well, what a waste of like a comeback. *01:29:53* And then *01:30:01* the realization, oh, this is Odin robs it even again. *01:30:02* It's like, ah, Tyr is dead. *01:30:05* And then you find out after you beat the game, nah, Tyr's alive. *01:30:06* He was in this prison in Nieffelheim. *01:30:11* And then he pulls a Princess Peach from Super Mario Odyssey and just wanders the realms like, oh, hello, I am Tear. *01:30:13* By that point, I don't even care that he's alive. *01:30:22* Exactly. *01:30:24* You know, it's like it's like it's like because like I said, like *01:30:24* We want to get to know that version of him, but he's not going to be in any of the cutscenes. *01:30:27* He's not going to be like he'll just have little moments where he's like, hello, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. *01:30:33* Goodbye. *01:30:38* And that's like it. *01:30:39* So it's such a it's such a waste. *01:30:40* It's such a bummer. *01:30:42* Let down. *01:30:44* It stings. *01:30:45* They could have done something else with Odin, I think, as if they wanted to make his *01:30:46* transformative powers be in the game in some capacity. *01:30:51* They still could have done that. *01:30:55* I just don't think as tier. *01:30:56* Tier making it tier *01:30:59* I'm curious at what point in development they came up with the idea, one, not only to put tier in the game, it feel I I I guess what I'm saying is it feels like it was a late decision made by them. *01:31:01* Like they got like half or th two-thirds of the way through development and they're like, hey *01:31:11* What if we did this with Tier instead? *01:31:15* Oh, that's a good idea. *01:31:17* And then they like kind of work backward from there and revised. *01:31:18* It does. *01:31:24* They probably have been written pretty much up front. *01:31:24* Yeah, they probably I think more tier being actually alive was more of an afterthought. *01:31:27* Yeah, perhaps. *01:31:33* But there's just so much they could have done if real tier was in this game a lot. *01:31:37* Because I know I remember our discussion we had. *01:31:42* In our predictions episode, where we're like, oh, Tyr's gonna know who Kratos is, Tyr has traveled the road. *01:31:45* That is implied, by the way. *01:31:50* And and it is, and he still says that stuff to him. *01:31:52* Uh when they first meet and still No no no I'm saying like you rescue him from the prison. *01:31:55* He's like, I know you from somewhere. *01:31:59* And so I'm s I assume that's peeled back as you visit him through the realms. *01:32:01* Because he's like, I'll remember it eventually. *01:32:05* Well, but when I when I'm what that's what I'm talking about is like he would have he would have absolutely known who Kratos is and *01:32:08* And he would have had a reason to fear him. *01:32:16* And like a lot of Tier's initial character traits when you first meet him in the game and you don't know that he is Odin. *01:32:19* Would have still stayed the same, but then they would have been more interesting to see expanded on if that was really him. *01:32:26* Um, and that's what sucks. *01:32:35* It's like if you could have had if you could have had a version of Tier that knew Kratos *01:32:38* as this that new Kratos was this god killer, this evil person that destroyed the whole Greek world, the world that he's visited before, because he traveled between the realms and things like that. *01:32:43* And then he eventually realizes that, no no, this is a different person and *01:32:52* Like I was talking to you when the one trailer came out and hit that scene of him and Kratos like uh dapping each other off. *01:32:56* I was like, yeah, like that's what I wanted to see. *01:33:02* I wanted to see *01:33:04* I wanted to see a got duo god of war tag team team up it Ragnarok *01:33:05* And never got that. *01:33:13* Yeah. *01:33:15* I think that's where your expectations definitely let you down a little bit. *01:33:16* Yes. *01:33:20* Well didn't you think that *01:33:20* Like, oh my gosh, we're gonna have double god of wars on the same team. *01:33:22* No, but remember I was uh I was already bummed that he was being brought back to life from the outset. *01:33:25* You did, yeah. *01:33:31* So I was never really like *01:33:31* Let's go tier. *01:33:33* I think they could have done a lot of interesting things between tier there because to *01:33:34* To Kratos being the god of war in the Greek pantheon was always a s closely associated with violence and chaos and like even when he was *01:33:41* Like I think about and and just and in ju war. *01:33:51* Like I i v like very I know that's goofy sounding, but I mean Kratos when he was the god of war at the start of God of War two, he's sitting around his Spartan armies and destroying different Greek par parts of the Greek world and stuff like that. *01:33:54* Tyr was not like that as the god of war. *01:34:06* Like he fought when he needed to and he wa he led their armies when he needed to, but he was not this uh they they both had very different uh *01:34:08* Duties, and they both carried out their duties as the god of war completely differently from one another, and it would have been interesting to see them kind of their ideologies. *01:34:17* And one is a former ideology for Kratos, but I I *01:34:25* I don't know. *01:34:29* Just a lot of lost uh opportunities there, I think, between them. *01:34:29* Ragnarok? *01:34:35* What a rhythm. *01:34:38* We need to talk about Ragnarok as a vent. *01:34:39* It felt rushed, yeah. *01:34:40* What a rushed letdown of an entire segment. *01:34:42* just an absolute you might as well have not done it 'cause the whole game you talked about not wanting to do it anyway and it felt like you're like, well, I guess we gotta do it. *01:34:47* And it felt it felt by the numbers. *01:34:56* Like kind of the things like, what are the things we need to do in order for Ragnarok to happen? *01:34:58* Well, we gotta activate Surter, we gotta blow the horn, there's a snake that's gotta fight a man with a hammer. *01:35:03* It's just like *01:35:09* Did we do it? *01:35:10* Check. *01:35:11* Did we do it? *01:35:11* Check. *01:35:11* Did we do it? *01:35:12* Check. *01:35:12* Like, no, uh but then they don't but then they don't do certain things. *01:35:13* Like I was shocked, like, where's Finrir? *01:35:17* Finrir's a huge part of Ragnarok. *01:35:18* Why isn't he attacking Odin? *01:35:20* Like what? *01:35:21* I'm Angry Boda and I ride a wolf around. *01:35:22* Like uh It's it's It was cool the coolest look the coolest part of Ragnarok *01:35:25* was actually activating Sirter and then fighting two Valkyries at once. *01:35:32* Like that was the coolest part. *01:35:36* I think the fight with Thor was eh, I think the fight with Odin. *01:35:37* Was also pretty eh. *01:35:42* I thought it was pretty good. *01:35:44* Pretty basic. *01:35:48* Not too different from Thor. *01:35:49* Didn't have a uh dodge the AoEs. *01:35:51* Well nowhere nowhere nowhere close to the same level of like holy crap moments with the Baldur fight though, because that Baldur fight had like three or four different phases. *01:35:54* Yeah. *01:36:03* Start up on one level, you're falling through the sky, Atreus is shooting arrows at him in the middle of the sky. *01:36:03* There's a giant there's a giant coming to life that's being reanimated. *01:36:08* Atreus calls us Atreus calls a giant snake out of nowhere to come attack the giant. *01:36:16* Kratos says, Good job, boy! *01:36:20* Like, there's a lot more going on at the end of the last game that felt like and yeah, like those *01:36:22* Like how does just a monoamoto or I guess not monoamana, but like how does this one conflict with a lone as guardian god at the end of the game feel more *01:36:27* like crazy than Ragnarok itself happening. *01:36:38* I know how they could have improved the end. *01:36:44* You could have had try time traveled with a snake. *01:36:47* That would have been fairly dope. *01:36:50* That's the other thing. *01:36:54* You and I thought that there was gonna be time travel in this game a hundred percent, and instead the whole everything was *01:36:55* Yorman Gander was just bonk time travel and that that was it. *01:36:59* And they were like, oh well, okay. *01:37:03* Like it's cool when you see it, but *01:37:06* Then you realize that's all there is. *01:37:08* Yeah, it's cool to see finally come to fruition, but when it happens and then it's over, you're like, oh. *01:37:11* That's all it was. *01:37:18* Because again, you and I theorize forever like, oh well the snake has to time travel back in time and somebody blew the horn before, but we don't know who did that. *01:37:20* And there there's been time traveling we've got a war series before. *01:37:27* We still know who blew the horn *01:37:31* What a bummer. *01:37:33* I speaking of blowing the horn, I think another part of Ragnarok, just the event itself *01:37:34* was the gap or the pace to get to said event. *01:37:41* Like you kill Heimdell and then there is just a *01:37:44* What would you just a huge gap until you actually like do the thing and blow the horn and then activate serter? *01:37:50* Like the events leading up to it feel so far out. *01:37:59* And I feel like it's not a good thing. *01:38:01* I get it. *01:38:05* I get it. *01:38:05* They're trying to find ways, like it's not until Brock actually dies that they're like, well *01:38:06* Guess we gotta do it. *01:38:12* Like Yeah, I just feel like the pay the build-up pace. *01:38:13* Because it's like you said earlier, it's on the box, it's going to happen. *01:38:17* So why beat around the bush? *01:38:22* Yeah. *01:38:24* Why not have that ramp build a bit more steadily? *01:38:24* I guess for me it it's more of a question of *01:38:30* Why not make it longer and more of a drawn out thing and something that is happening *01:38:33* Like I I get that Ragnarok is something that happens within Asgard, but like Fimblewinner, like throughout the whole game you're traveling to all the different realms too, and you're seeing how Fimblewinner affects the realms and things like that, and it's like, wow, this is something that *01:38:42* Like, the Norse realm heading towards Ragnarok is something that is having far-reaching effects on every single area of the Norse world, and then Ragnarok itself is just this *01:38:56* event tied to only Asgard and everybody kind of pours in from the different realms. *01:39:06* Like yeah, I don't know. *01:39:10* Having Ragnarok itself be a *01:39:13* 45 minute event or whatever. *01:39:15* Just big disappointment. *01:39:18* I but I'm trying to think of what *01:39:21* else they could have done to not make it a single mission? *01:39:24* Like how do you drag Ragnarok out? *01:39:28* Like, I'm not wanting Ragnarok to take place over the course of ten hours or something, because then there are no *01:39:30* There has to be a fine balance because then you get into a situation where I've talked about this before with like Mass Effect 3. *01:39:36* One of my biggest problems with that game is that *01:39:42* That game is entirely centered around the main villains of that series are. *01:39:44* . *01:39:49* I know you don't, you kind of know this, but maybe not. *01:39:49* The main villains of that game series are. *01:39:51* The Reapers, yeah. *01:39:54* And the Reapers, their entire goal is to r eradicate all of humanity throughout the entire galaxy. *01:39:56* Well guess what *01:40:01* That takes a bit to accomplish. *01:40:02* So the whole game, you're seeing these giant things slowly destroy everything, all life across different planets, and it it it fe it simultaneously feels like *01:40:04* A really high-stakes thing is happening, but also like we got time. *01:40:15* You know, it takes a long time for them to eradicate all life across the across the whole universe. *01:40:19* Like, so there's *01:40:25* uh raised the like i it's a really climatic thing that's happening in that game, but also the stakes are lowered. *01:40:27* I guess what my point is, is how do you make Ragnarok something that feels climatic and huge in this major moment of the game? *01:40:32* Without making it a lone mission and something that you could have dragged out a little bit more while still making it feel constantly climatic and not uh smaller or like like not like the stakes are lowered, if that makes any sense. *01:40:41* Um, because if you stew in it too long, it's like, well, is this really an event we should be fearing? *01:40:54* Like, is this big fire guy really gonna do anything? *01:40:59* He's just been standing there for ten hours. *01:41:02* He's not gonna is he actually gonna destroy Asgard? *01:41:03* So *01:41:06* I don't know if that makes any sense, but do you have anything you want to else that you want to say about Ragnarok as an event? *01:41:07* Or the end of the game. *01:41:15* One thing I do want to say about Ragnarok in particular, though, and this can segue into another one of our big topics, and I think this is something you'll agree with, is the best part of Ragnarok. *01:41:17* By a mile, in my opinion. *01:41:27* Bear McCreary goes hard. *01:41:30* Bear McCreary goes very hard at the end of this game. *01:41:32* This man kicks it up a notch. *01:41:36* And this whole soundtrack I feel like was kicked up a notch. *01:41:38* Compared to the last one, and then he's like, nah, boys, you ain't seen nothing yet. *01:41:41* The final hour of this game. *01:41:46* Bear goes nutty. *01:41:49* Bear goes syndry mode on the soundtrack at the end of this game *01:41:50* Uh I think I think this g this soundtrack I I wrote this in my review, but like I loved the previous God of War soundtrack, and I think this soundtrack is like twice as good, honestly. *01:41:55* Uh and a lot of it's *01:42:05* Because the main themes have already been, you know, created for the last game and he can kind of expand and do new things with them here in this game, but uh *01:42:07* He does a he the Ragnarok is really amplified quite a bit uh thanks to his music that he does near the end of the game. *01:42:15* I I don't know if this is just my lack of I don't listen to a ton of music in general. *01:42:25* But I was just like, this sounds like God of War. *01:42:33* And it was really good. *01:42:35* I don't mean that in a dismissive way, but I just was like, I know this music. *01:42:37* I know this music. *01:42:41* And so I think it mostly just faded in the background for me. *01:42:42* I was more distracted by the things on screen and the things I was doing mechanically. *01:42:46* And the music was there elevating those moments in height, but I couldn't tell you one song from the soundtrack. *01:42:52* I haven't listened to the soundtrack outside of the game. *01:42:57* Um *01:43:00* Like I have with 2018, but it's just it's good, but you have it on vinyl. *01:43:00* I don't oh, I do have the seven-inch vinyl, yes, but I haven't listened to that. *01:43:09* Also, not a fan of the blood on the snow song um with Hosure. *01:43:13* Yeah, I think everyone was like super stoked that that was at the Game Awards this year live. *01:43:20* And I was like, That song I will say is the worst song on the sound. *01:43:25* I'm glad it was in the credits only. *01:43:28* I don't like Hosher, so yeah. *01:43:30* I don't even know. *01:43:32* That is that someone You probably know that you know that Take Me to Church that song you probably heard it. *01:43:33* You I've absolutely heard it. *01:43:40* You've said this a lot in the past and I've surprised you with my lack of True, but that song was played *01:43:42* everywhere a couple of years ago. *01:43:47* Like you could not escape it. *01:43:49* So we'll convene after the show. *01:43:51* I just so *01:43:54* The only thing I wrote down in my notes was Bear's goat. *01:43:55* Like Bear McCreary does great stuff the way he weaves the themes, but I couldn't call out a specific moment or instance where the music like. *01:43:59* stood out to me specifically. *01:44:07* Not like uh when you get in a boat with Athena and some Greek stuff starts coming in and you're like, oh my God, here we go. *01:44:09* Uh that didn't come out to me *01:44:18* this time around. *01:44:21* But I blame myself more than the game. *01:44:22* Bear is the goat. *01:44:25* He's he's he's up there. *01:44:27* He's one of the best, I think, around. *01:44:28* And uh if they keep making these games I hope he *01:44:30* Sticks around for a very, very long time. *01:44:35* One thing we have not talked about too much is the combat *01:44:38* There's a lot we could get into on this front, and I know we've already been going a long time, so I feel like this is going to be a condensed combat discussion. *01:44:42* There are a few things I want to bring up though. *01:44:49* uh to kind of bring us through this. *01:44:51* One, this is a conversation you and I have already had, so there's probably not a lot to discuss here, but I'll I'll put a different spin on it. *01:44:54* With a little bit more distance, are you fine that Mjolnir is not a weapon you can use in the game? *01:45:01* No. *01:45:07* This I was thinking about this more today because I knew we were recording this. *01:45:09* This is *01:45:14* arguably the biggest blunder of Eric's directorial directional this is the biggest goof I think they made *01:45:15* And, you know, in interviews and stuff, they were like, no, it's too much like uh the axe and we just felt it was too though. *01:45:28* It is. *01:45:36* And th but they've said it's too obvious, like we didn't want to, you know, just l do what everyone thought we were going to do, all this stuff. *01:45:37* And I think their goal to like not do what people think, almost sort of a hipster sort of approach. *01:45:46* Is is their mistake. *01:45:55* And *01:45:57* Maybe so if the desire is not to have it be the third primary weapon, I'm fine with that. *01:45:58* Because it is mechanically the same as the axe. *01:46:04* Well in his in his his E Eric's narrative purposes for this too. *01:46:07* He's like, all of Kratos' weapon Kratos' weapons are things that were uh given to him. *01:46:12* Like the axe was given to him by his wife, the blades of chaos he got from Ares from Yeah, from Ares. *01:46:18* Like these were things that were like bestowed upon him. *01:46:26* Same with the spear in the game. *01:46:29* He got earned the spear, and the spear stems from his own blood. *01:46:31* And so like and then and then not only that, but like the axe was created by the dwarves as a counter to Mjolnir. *01:46:34* So like there's a lot of things that like okay, it makes sense. *01:46:40* Sure, it makes great sense. *01:46:44* But you still should have had it. *01:46:46* Here's the thing I'll say. *01:46:48* It did not need to be a primary weapon. *01:46:50* That's what I'm saying. *01:46:52* But the biggest mistake in the whole game is after Thor dies, Fionnir just goes shooting off. *01:46:54* And it's like, absolutely bring it back! *01:47:00* Like how could you not like I could I if you would if you would have paused the game for me after Thor died and said, How much would you like to wager that you will use Mjolnir in the upcoming fight with Odin? *01:47:04* I would have bet you like $100,000 that that was gonna happen in the next ten minutes of the game, and it didn't. *01:47:16* And that is exactly when it needed to happen. *01:47:23* And it is obvious. *01:47:25* And it is it felt like the thing they were gonna do. *01:47:27* But that but it even for even for Thor, even for Thor, that I like I think this is the thing that g drives hit that bothers me a little bit more the thing uh the more I think about it. *01:47:30* Thor gets no chance to go against his father at the end of the game because his dad just kills him. *01:47:40* If you would have been able to whoop Odin's ass with Thor's own weapon as Kratos, like it could have been some like *01:47:49* Strange resolution for Thor as well. *01:47:57* Like Thor died, but you still used his own weapon to beat him his dad down with. *01:47:59* And and but again, I know *01:48:04* I know that th Odin doesn't die and but like you still could have used it to whoop on Odin. *01:48:07* And it would have been like a it would have it would have been a good narrative moment for Thor to have some sort of revenge even though he's dead. *01:48:12* It's like, okay, well his weapon is still here and *01:48:19* Kratos is using it. *01:48:21* Like it I think that would have been good. *01:48:22* It it would have been great, and it's exactly when it should have been done. *01:48:25* And they didn't do it because it was obvious and easy. *01:48:29* And sometimes the obvious and easy thing is the best thing for the player and the game. *01:48:33* It can just be that one segment. *01:48:40* It's totally fine to not use it and pick it up after that. *01:48:42* You know, it's I think I told it to you like this. *01:48:47* It'd be like if watching Avengers Endgame, you're at the end *01:48:50* You see Mjoln Mjolnir fly across the screen into Captain America's hand. *01:48:54* It's like, ah, great. *01:48:59* This is exactly what we've been waiting for for 10 years, like 20 movies. *01:49:01* And then he just puts it down, or when everyone shows up in that movie, and Captain America's there with it. *01:49:07* If he just said *01:49:13* Let's go. *01:49:15* Yeah, everybody knew what was gonna happen in in-game before anyone saw the movie. *01:49:16* And so sometimes you just have to lean into that. *01:49:21* And I think it is a *01:49:24* I think it's a mistake. *01:49:27* I think it's arguably the biggest mistake, besides maybe chunky uh long Atreus segments of the game, uh of Ragnarok not wielding the hammer. *01:49:28* It is because it goes disappointment. *01:49:38* Mainly I mean that's again that's the thing that bothers me the most is it just goes flying off into the void. *01:49:42* It's like where'd it go? *01:49:47* What what happened to it? *01:49:49* Well uh I mean *01:49:51* Odin threw it. *01:49:52* Well it du I know I know that. *01:49:54* But like it didn't just like it didn't just like skitter off on its own. *01:49:56* I know th I know he tossed it away. *01:50:00* I I I'll say this too, and this might uh in case people are yelling at it. *01:50:02* We have not done the post-game stuff in case Mjolnir does show back up and in sort of side quest capacity, but I don't think it does. *01:50:06* I looked up and it nobody does either. *01:50:13* And it sucks too, because twice in that fight with Thor, Kratos grabs the hammer. *01:50:17* There's one time where you literally stick the blades of chaos in the handle and swing it. *01:50:22* uh for in a cutscene, it's not even a gameplay mechanic, and then Kratos, you know, just stops it from flying away and pushes it back actively, which is just *01:50:26* again building to I'm going to wield the hammer and then they never go there. *01:50:36* Yeah if I if I was work I I I I would love to know what the discussions were like behind the scenes. *01:50:42* about this because clearly the people v v uh vouching for Mjolner didn't go hard enough because I was gonna say because you have to know *01:50:47* that this was a divisive thing. *01:50:56* And Eric had the final call on what they decided to do with it. *01:50:57* But you have to know there were people internally like, Yeah, bro, like this is a *01:51:00* This is a million dollar idea. *01:51:05* We gotta do like we gotta do this. *01:51:06* And again, with with like I said before, with some distance from the game, I think not making it one of the three primary weapons was *01:51:08* The r that is the right call. *01:51:18* That is the right call. *01:51:19* I'm I'm not here arguing for that. *01:51:20* Final boss fight though. *01:51:23* Thousand percent needed to happen. *01:51:25* Yeah. *01:51:26* Thousand percent needed to happen. *01:51:27* We just needed to wield it once. *01:51:28* That's all you needed to do. *01:51:30* Yeah. *01:51:32* And instead where it's just like this lingering angst that it didn't happen, like oh *01:51:33* The great thing about it is it's mechanically like the axe. *01:51:39* So in that final fight, you need it. *01:51:42* You didn't need a tutorial at all. *01:51:44* That's what's great about it. *01:51:47* You would have just immediately had it. *01:51:48* They could have given you two baller abilities. *01:51:50* So like you didn't even have to worry about slotting out your skill tree or whatever. *01:51:53* It's just default. *01:51:56* Go. *01:51:57* Here's these great things that you could do. *01:51:58* And you get nothing from it. *01:52:00* And it's a letdown, and it's going to be a shadow that looms over this game for its entire life. *01:52:03* They could have just had it be the ex they could have just had the combos work in the exact same way as the axe to some degree with how he swings it. *01:52:11* It's a it's a huge, huge letdown. *01:52:19* Biggest in the game. *01:52:22* Alright. *01:52:23* Also on the combat front. *01:52:24* Drop near spear. *01:52:25* Yes or no? *01:52:26* Oh, yeah. *01:52:27* I from that. *01:52:28* That's awesome. *01:52:29* From the moment you pick it up, it's gr fantastic. *01:52:29* It's so good. *01:52:32* I love that it's a callback to the Greek games, once again, Ghost of Sword in particular. *01:52:33* I love that they utilize Dropnir in a very *01:52:38* Interesting manner. *01:52:41* You're telling me I just get unlimited spheres to chuck at people and I can always crack another one back into my hand at any given point? *01:52:42* Cool. *01:52:49* Yeah, like that's dope. *01:52:50* It's really, really awesome. *01:52:51* And it also uh the thing I was thinking of as the game went on, I was like, okay, well I *01:52:53* They're gonna give me another weapon at some point, but I'm like, where does Kratos keep another weapon? *01:53:00* He's already got some blades on his back. *01:53:05* He's ki got this axe on his back too. *01:53:07* Where would he put another weapon? *01:53:09* Like on his hip or something? *01:53:11* And he's got a head there. *01:53:12* And it's like, nope, I just put a just gotta put a ring on this finger and he's good to go. *01:53:13* So it's very light to travel with. *01:53:17* Uh yeah, it's great. *01:53:19* It's a great weapon and it leads to a great fight with Heimdale. *01:53:21* Yes. *01:53:25* So that's one of the best boss fights in the game, too, for sure. *01:53:26* It's my favorite boss fight in the game. *01:53:29* More so than the Thor fight? *01:53:31* Yeah, I think the Heimdell fight as is a fantastic. *01:53:33* So *01:53:37* I love the spear. *01:53:39* I love how it weaves in with the blades and the axe and the combos you can create. *01:53:40* And it takes a bit to learn how to switch between all three of them, but like and that's why I think the Odin fight is pretty good near the end, is because it *01:53:45* Really does make you rotate between all three of them. *01:53:52* And once you start doing that, it's like, okay, this feels good to be swapping a lot here. *01:53:54* Yeah. *01:53:58* Um it's a great tool. *01:53:59* It's a great weapon. *01:54:00* I'm excited. *01:54:01* To do more of the post-game and have the full arsenal and weave those all together. *01:54:03* But dropping your spear is great. *01:54:08* I love it. *01:54:10* I'm glad they found a weapon that could complement two iconic weapons. *01:54:10* and very bold of them to do it right after creating the Leviathan Axe, which alone was the replacement for the Blades of Chaos for like half a game and advertised as like the replacement. *01:54:16* So it's *01:54:27* It's very bold of them to do the weapon thing again. *01:54:27* But it is in line with the God of War series to have multiple weapons for Kratos. *01:54:30* And so I'm glad that they went that route and designed uh *01:54:34* uh a sweet, sweet spear. *01:54:38* Contextually, like for the character of Kratos and uh like for the story itself too. *01:54:41* Like it made *01:54:47* Like when you think about the weapons he uses in the game, okay, he knows how to use the axe because he's been using the axe for a long time by the time maybe not a long time, but *01:54:49* He's he's familiar with the axe by the time first God of War begins. *01:54:57* So it's like, okay, he doesn't we don't need to explain how he knows this weapon and is used to it. *01:55:01* Same with the blades. *01:55:06* He's used them for *01:55:07* Longer than he would like. *01:55:08* And then with the spear when he gets this, there's no learning curve. *01:55:09* It's the first weapon of Spartan. *01:55:12* So it's like contextually all this stuff makes sense and it's not like *01:55:16* the older games where it's a little goofy, like now I have giant Hercules gauntlets that I'll punch people with. *01:55:20* It's like, what? *01:55:26* Uh and that's great and I love that, but it is silly. *01:55:26* they contextualize why he has all these weapons and why he's proficient with them as well, which I which I cause you could give *01:55:30* You could give somebody you could give me a pair of nunchucks right now. *01:55:38* It's not like I'm gonna and they're like, defeat this man with nunchucks. *01:55:41* It's like I don't know what I'm doing with these. *01:55:44* So it's like you have to know how to handle the weapons you're using and Kratos knows how to *01:55:46* knows his way around all three of his primary weapons. *01:55:52* Yeah. *01:55:55* I don't know if there's anything else you want to say about the game broadly. *01:55:55* I mean we've kind of touched on some of the side quests that we think stand out and are good. *01:56:00* Um, we've talked about, you know, the different allies and how they work. *01:56:03* There's a lot of like systemic and mechanical things I think we could get into the very nitty-gritty and talk about with this game. *01:56:07* Still don't like the gear system. *01:56:14* In fact I think they're they've made it more curse. *01:56:15* They've made it more complicated and more dominant. *01:56:18* I don't even understand. *01:56:21* It's too it's so overwhelming. *01:56:23* Um actively like scared to go into the pause menu. *01:56:26* and deal with it. *01:56:30* Uh so I didn't know that's the first time. *01:56:31* That was one of the big things I that was one of the big things I mentioned in my review, wasn't it? *01:56:32* You read it recently. *01:56:36* You were talking about it. *01:56:38* Yeah, the the the menus are not great. *01:56:39* And the systems is just it's so complicated in so many facets, it's just like *01:56:43* all these lights, buttons, and dials. *01:56:47* Well there's a lot of things they stack on e on on its on e on one another in this game. *01:56:49* Some of which I think are like you can level up the moves like you can level up the moves individually and once you *01:56:53* uh use the moves a certain time then they rank up and then like the you unlock more uh you unlock *01:57:01* uh stat modifiers for them or whatever, like oh, use this ability 10 times. *01:57:08* Okay, use it 30 times. *01:57:13* And once you do it 30 times, then you can use your experience points to add a modifier to it, which will *01:57:14* Increase your damage by 10% or something like that. *01:57:20* And some of that stuff I think is cool because it encourages you to use all of the different moves and abilities that are in the game. *01:57:23* But yeah, it's just there's a lot to *01:57:29* Uh, get through in the game when it comes to the system, because then there's a whole list of challenges and stuff. *01:57:32* And like there's it's it's cool that this stuff is all there, but *01:57:39* There are just RPG elements of this that I don't think they complicate in a game. *01:57:42* Yeah, they overly complicate the game to be in a *01:57:48* much. *01:57:51* And I I think maybe I'll come to appreciate that stuff a little bit more as I enter the postgame and start to, you know, I feel like that's where you're really gonna start to rank up. *01:57:51* your weapons and you'll start to feel a sense of progression once I try to start defeating these Valkyries and the different berserkers and things like that. *01:58:01* And they're gonna wail on me and then I'll come back and I'll be stronger and then I'll wail on them and like *01:58:09* That's kinda how the Valkyrie fights were in the first game too. *01:58:14* It's like, wow, this thing just kicked my butt and then you come back five hours later and you've got way better gear and you wail on them in return. *01:58:16* So no, I feel like it's gonna go the same way it did in twenty eighteen in the sense uh I'm already maxed out weapon-wise. *01:58:24* Like everything's maxed out, so I'm not really *01:58:30* Oh yeah. *01:58:33* Every skill uh my skill trees were maxed out before the end of the game. *01:58:34* Oh, you mean like with the skill trees? *01:58:37* I thought you meant like with the levels for the weapons themselves. *01:58:39* No, just the skill trees. *01:58:42* Yeah, and I mean they're they're close maxed out weapon-wise. *01:58:44* But I'm just gonna Google best armor in God of War Ragnarok and go get it and then like because *01:58:48* It's so daunting and overwhelming that I don't want to filter through it. *01:58:56* I actively avoided it for most of the game. *01:59:00* And so I'm just going to look up the best option. *01:59:03* Go do whatever those tasks are, which I'm sure are difficult, and then n again not have to deal with it because I I actively don't want to participate in these systems. *01:59:07* Yeah. *01:59:17* So I'm I'm disappointed that they went in the opposite direction and added more and made it more complicated. *01:59:18* Yeah, that that's what's weird is that this was a common complaint of the previous game too. *01:59:23* And they just double down see them essentially yeah, double down and make it *01:59:28* even more overly complex was uh weird to say the least. *01:59:32* Anything you want to say about this game's *01:59:38* Art direction or the care or i you've got something what? *01:59:41* I was d I think there are more puzzles in this game and I appreciate it. *01:59:45* There are, yeah, they add some I'm I think of like the axe the things that bounce off the axe or the axe that you can ricochet. *01:59:49* Yeah. *01:59:57* There's a bit more old God of War puzzle stuff without feeling too cumbersome. *01:59:57* And I appreciate that because I thought puzzles were a missing element from 2018 and they they brought a lot of that back and I enjoy it. *02:00:03* And there's a really cool, you know, Zelda kind of moment of when you get the spear. *02:00:11* And you realize you can throw it in those holes that have been all over the nine realms, it's like, ah, now I can get everything that I couldn't before. *02:00:15* So I did enjoy that quite a bit. *02:00:23* Uh visually like you were talking about, uh it's God of War twenty eighteen just Yeah, PS five wise it didn't feel like it really pushed the hardware it was *02:00:25* Nope, because it's it it was always a PS4 game and they just beefed it up. *02:00:34* So I'm excited to see what they can do natively on PS5, only on PS5. *02:00:39* We seem to f *02:00:46* Sorta kinda maybe finally leaving the cross gen part of at least first party PlayStation games, Spider Man 2's PS5 only, and that's out next fall. *02:00:48* Um but we're still getting so many new games that are announced that are cross-gen and *02:00:56* like Game Awards last week and I was still seeing so much PS4 and Xbox One stuff on games coming out next year. *02:01:00* I was like, oh this this sucks man. *02:01:07* Like I I get it because sales, but *02:01:09* It's a bummer. *02:01:12* So looking forward to the future of Sony stud PlayStation Studios PS5 only games. *02:01:13* The last thing I wanted to say as far as gameplay goes, and then we'll we'll wrap up. *02:01:21* I know we've gone very long here, but I feel like this was expected to be a little bit more *02:01:26* We would do this to some degree, which is why we probably kept pushing this back a little bit. *02:01:29* I think the one other thing about the game that is different would be the open areas. *02:01:33* with the doggies that you can run around with or the sand doggies if you're in other areas. *02:01:37* How'd you feel about those? *02:01:42* Did you have any strong feelings about *02:01:44* Running around and stopping at little areas and going off and doing quick tasks and then coming I mean it's similar to the boat in some senses, but it is *02:01:46* Different at the same time. *02:01:54* Uh it's more cumbersome than the boat because you have to get off of the dog sled to interact with the treasure or the thing. *02:01:56* Yeah. *02:02:02* I think some of the spaces are a bit big for big sake. *02:02:02* And not necessarily easy to navigate. *02:02:05* Actually, that open area in Vanaheim that I was telling you about that doesn't have dogs. *02:02:07* That's a lot of walking, but it's disjointed and it's not easy to there *02:02:12* It is actually frustratingly difficult to get to some areas and the map is essentially useless because you can't zoom in on the map at all in any real useful manner. *02:02:18* So I think some of the areas are big for big sake. *02:02:27* and the dogs are just boat on land. *02:02:30* So it's fine. *02:02:34* It's whatever. *02:02:35* But it did make the game feel a bit *02:02:36* bloated in some spaces. *02:02:39* It's a lot like it's a lot like how Gears Five approach their semi-open world structure. *02:02:41* And I know you haven't played that game, but it's *02:02:48* Reminded me a lot of Gears 5. *02:02:50* Good video game. *02:02:52* You should play it. *02:02:53* My quotas on the box. *02:02:54* Thank you. *02:02:56* So we we have to do legacy *02:02:57* But before we do you want to do legacy first? *02:03:00* I like I said I do want to talk about the future of the series and just some broad I think that's part of legacy. *02:03:02* Is what's next? *02:03:08* Yeah, I think that's part of it. *02:03:10* Yeah, well, I mean this game's legacy now is that it Norse stuff is over, but is it? *02:03:12* There's more to it than that, per usual, but yeah, it's the legacy of the game, I think, is *02:03:18* quite a few things. *02:03:28* It's Eric Williams directorial debut, continuing the trend of a new director every game. *02:03:29* Even though it's a very good idea. *02:03:34* After having worked on every single game in the series. *02:03:35* Yeah. *02:03:38* There are some unique stories that we didn't really touch on surrounding the development of this game. *02:03:39* You know, like when Corey said that he quit and Christopher Judge also quit, like that's a really *02:03:45* Powerful story. *02:03:51* Right. *02:03:55* But Chris did quit. *02:03:56* I'm sorry. *02:03:57* Yes. *02:03:58* You know, so that that's always interesting, that stuff surrounding it. *02:03:59* Chris Chris uh did quit. *02:04:03* He uh he he did briefly quit and then Corey talked him into it. *02:04:06* And then the other thing I was gonna say is Chris also blamed himself for this game getting delayed, which I don't think is *02:04:10* true or accurate. *02:04:16* Yeah, he had he had to get surgery and that put him out of commission for remote cap for a while, so he blamed himself. *02:04:18* But also this game launched *02:04:23* It was supposed to come out in 2021 and it launched in November 2022. *02:04:26* So I mean there was clearly more causing delays behind the scenes than just that. *02:04:30* But I think overall, like Ragnarok is a game of of two halves that were mashed together to try and make one game. *02:04:36* This was *02:04:45* They said let's not do three games, let's do it in two. *02:04:47* Which I think I agree with because you and I t we're talking before the show about how *02:04:50* Currently, Naughty Dogs rumors rumors say they're working on Last of Us Part 3, and I was talking about how upset that makes me because I'll be 40 by the time they make a new IP if that's true. *02:04:56* And so in that sense, I am glad this is two games for the North series because I don't want to be 35 when God of War wreck *02:05:07* God of War Valhalla comes out or whatever it would be called. *02:05:15* Like like I I am glad that they tried to condense this because making video games is such a lengthy process now. *02:05:18* So like we can on this triple A scale it is. *02:05:26* Absolutely. *02:05:28* And I, you know, it's ambitious and bold of them to do that, but in the end, I think the dissonance between the gameplay and the story proves too great for Sony Santa Marca's ambitions, though. *02:05:30* And the final product is like a crammed into a state of disjointedness. *02:05:41* And ultimately the gameplay and narrative just don't align until after you beat the main story. *02:05:45* And that *02:05:52* I think that fractal presentation takes me out of it into a kind of a letdown state. *02:05:53* Let me ask you this. *02:06:01* Has this a games *02:06:03* a claim led you to believe that you are wrong with what you're saying right now? *02:06:06* Like in the back of your mind, are you thinking like *02:06:12* Maybe I need to replay this with fresh eyes in 12 to 18 months and see if I feel differently about it. *02:06:15* Like are you viewing it that way or are you just like *02:06:22* Nope, this is how I feel, and I'm I'm right and everyone else is wrong. *02:06:25* Um I think anyone I think any critic that gave this game a ten out of ten *02:06:29* Something's wrong because that was never considered for me. *02:06:35* I understand I do understand that for you, but like the Atreus *02:06:39* alone, the Atreus sections were just so long and frustrating and dull at points that that alone would ruin a a a perfect score for me. *02:06:43* Um, not that I believe in scores to begin with. *02:06:55* I think giving a number to a game is not necessarily helpful. *02:06:57* And then just the other nitpicks and complaints like this game *02:07:02* Is they tried so hard, but it there are pieces of this that are broken and don't line up and i I it's a fault. *02:07:07* I think 2018 is the better game out of the two. *02:07:15* It's tighter. *02:07:19* Everything you do is goes into the direction of father and son and that arc for Kratos and it works out better. *02:07:20* They tried. *02:07:29* It's really bold of them. *02:07:30* But they they didn't stick the landing. *02:07:32* So I'm right and everyone else is wrong. *02:07:35* I will say the one thing as as somebody who reviewed this game *02:07:38* I was baffled that the scores were as high as they were. *02:07:43* And that does not mean I thought it was gonna be in like land in the 70s or I thought it would be like high eighties is where I was expecting the Metacritic score to be. *02:07:48* 94 I would never have guessed because I I played this game alongside two other people at my job who played it before Review Embargo as well. *02:07:57* And we were all talking about and we all had like *02:08:08* The same criticisms like the pacing, grinds to a halt at some points, some of these areas are way too long. *02:08:11* Like I still gave the game a very high score for all the reasons I said at the top. *02:08:16* I think it is *02:08:20* Top tier when it comes to combat and performances and writing and storytelling. *02:08:22* And I have fewer issues. *02:08:25* Like I like s I like a tre a lot of your issues involve a trace, and I think a trace is arcanist. *02:08:27* game is fine and I think Sonny's performance is good and things like that. *02:08:31* So we differ on Atreus, but I still think there are like huge pacing problems and then the *02:08:34* Problems with the gameplay systems and things like that and the item management and like but still like the good outweighs the bad in this game by a large, large amount for me. *02:08:41* But still I was blown away when I saw how many tens across the board it got and people saying one of the best PlayStation games ever made. *02:08:51* It's way better than the last game. *02:09:00* I was like, wow, like *02:09:01* I really genuinely thought that this game was going to come in much lower. *02:09:03* So I guess in some senses that would be this game's legacy to me in this moment. *02:09:08* Is that. *02:09:14* It lived up to expectations of what people had for it. *02:09:15* And I and to be honest, I feel like you and I are a little bit on the outs when it comes to *02:09:19* like having these sort of criticisms with it and maybe we're just I will say I don't pay attention to fandom conversations as much anymore as I used to and I don't really talk to anybody about this stuff, except for you. *02:09:25* So there's that. *02:09:36* Maybe people have more nitpicks *02:09:38* Yeah, maybe people have more nitpicks in the same way that you and I do than I'm aware of. *02:09:39* Uh that being said, I have been I I think that's this game's legacy for the moment is that it went *02:09:44* Pound for pound with the first game is if you just look at critical reception and fan reception and this is the best-selling game in the history of PlayStation. *02:09:52* Yes. *02:10:01* Like this game did not disappoint on any level for best launch sales. *02:10:01* Yeah, best launch sales. *02:10:07* I mean *02:10:08* I didn't want everyone to think it's already surpassed God of War twenty eighteen twenty million sales. *02:10:09* I'm sure it will go on to be the best selling PlayStation game ever. *02:10:17* Oh I have no doubt about that. *02:10:20* Yeah. *02:10:22* So uh that's his case. *02:10:23* Especially when it comes to PC next year. *02:10:25* Yeah. *02:10:27* And when it becomes a TV show and then people go back and buy, oh well, what's this? *02:10:28* Let me buy this. *02:10:33* So yeah, that is this game's legacy for now to me, is that it somehow lived up to the hype *02:10:34* that people had for it um in a very general sense I think and that's impressive and I do think Santa would you say anything *02:10:41* Bad about do you still do you still think Santa Monica Studios one of the best studios in the world after this game *02:10:52* I mean they sure know how to make a game. *02:10:59* I just really it just comes down to Your A lot of your biggest issues sound like they just involve story. *02:11:01* Like if you just separate the stories *02:11:07* If you take the story away from the game, this makes a great TV show. *02:11:10* This makes a great movie. *02:11:15* This makes a great book. *02:11:16* But when it comes to being a video game *02:11:18* And the idea of putting you in the shoes of these characters and telling the story through gameplay, which is absolutely what they were doing in 2018. *02:11:21* This falters and it misses the step. *02:11:34* And so I think as a game, as a narrative video game, it fumbles *02:11:36* And that's the my is the problem, is those two elements not lining up like they did previously, or like other top-tier PlayStation games. *02:11:41* And me specifically, like The Last of Us and The Last of Us Part Two are definitely prime examples of that. *02:11:51* And I know I have naughty dog bias. *02:11:57* Like I'm not that's not really where this is necessarily coming from, but it's just more *02:11:59* 2018 was so good about everything feeding back into this one relationship and this plot leading a certain place. *02:12:06* And this game is just too much and the gameplay doesn't line up with the narrative at all. *02:12:15* So What's next? *02:12:22* Atreus goes to college. *02:12:24* Considering Sony's trend lately, we're gonna get we're gonna get God of War Miles Morales. *02:12:27* Exactly. *02:12:35* A God of War, the Lost Legacy. *02:12:35* Like there is going I've you know if the trend continues, there is going to be some sort of spin-off. *02:12:38* game here for God of War. *02:12:46* Makes total sense, especially with a TV show and in production. *02:12:49* Uh so you know, in a year or two we'll see an Atreus God of War And that'll be totally set in the Norse Pantheon stuff. *02:12:53* Like you have to imagine. *02:13:00* He's gotta do giant stuff. *02:13:02* And Kratos will be dormant for a bit, but *02:13:04* Eventually Kratos will return. *02:13:08* He makes too much money for them not to. *02:13:10* And Sony Santa Monica tries they might have never been able to escape the shadow of Kratos, not since his debut. *02:13:12* And so eventually there will be a new God of War game with Kratos. *02:13:18* Uh but Atreus cannot carry the series forward on his own, and that's why he'll live in a spin-off realm. *02:13:22* Well, I think they're gonna tr I think they're gonna try. *02:13:28* Well, if he doesn't if he doesn't carry it by him, well, I'll say this. *02:13:30* He's not gonna try to carry the God of War mantle because Kratos is still left alive. *02:13:35* And yeah, Kratos will obviously continue to carry the banner of this series. *02:13:39* on his own shoulders. *02:13:43* He is the character that everybody wants to play as. *02:13:44* I do think they will try to do more with Atreus other than just a lone spin-off, though. *02:13:46* I think they might try to make multiple Atreus games. *02:13:52* I would not be shocked to see that come about. *02:13:55* Like make it its whole if we got God of War, here's God of Mischip. *02:13:58* Sh god of mischief and we're gonna have three or four games centered entirely around Atreus. *02:14:02* And I would be totally open to that. *02:14:08* I think that would be cool. *02:14:09* But they gotta flesh out his gameplay mechanics a little bit more and do some more *02:14:11* interesting things with him on that front, which I think they could if they built the game up like from the ground up with that in mind. *02:14:14* As for Kratos *02:14:20* I think I I'm really struggling to figure out what they do with him next. *02:14:23* Because the common idea has, you know, everybody's been like, oh well now he goes to Egypt and he fights *02:14:30* Rah and stuff like this. *02:14:36* It's like, well, did you play this game? *02:14:38* He does not want to fight people anymore. *02:14:40* He's not his goal as a person is not *02:14:43* I'm gonna travel the world and take on every pantheon until they're all raised to the ground, and only I remain. *02:14:45* That's not him. *02:14:53* He does not want to do this stuff anymore. *02:14:54* He's not going to get embroiled with this stuff anymore *02:14:56* I mean this is just not him. *02:14:59* So I'm trying to figure out how they pull him into another conflict that he gets *02:15:01* Tied to against his will, once again, he's like, crap, I'm getting too old for this, and then he gets pulled into another conflict where he has to pull out his blades and go back to battle. *02:15:07* Uh, because his character is in such a place where he should not want to do that stuff ever again. *02:15:18* So what does it look like to put him in the central role of another God of War game where he has to deal with another massive conflict on his hands? *02:15:24* And he has to go to war. *02:15:32* And I don't know what that looks like. *02:15:35* Having him just traveled to Egypt and battled new gods in a new pantheon does not make *02:15:37* much sense based on where his character is at now. *02:15:43* And I also don't know how they expand on where his character is at now because his character feels like it is in a per like if they never wanted to touch Kratos ever again *02:15:46* They could do that. *02:15:56* It'd be totally perfectly fine. *02:15:57* And I I don't want that because I do continue to want more games with this, and they won't do that because, as you said, money. *02:15:59* They will continue to go back to Kratos because he's a cash cow at this point. *02:16:06* So we're gonna get more God of War games with Kratos, but I I *02:16:11* They could really stop here if they wanted to. *02:16:15* And so I don't know what they do. *02:16:18* I I propose an idea to you that they could go back to the Greek realm and if he's gonna be Kratos the rebuilder, maybe he rebuilds the Norse pantheon and now he's like *02:16:20* I should go rebuild the Greek pantheon and then you go back there. *02:16:28* And I think that could make sense, but I don't know what that looks like. *02:16:32* That's the narrative corner they've painted themselves into, and they have probably a decade to figure that out. *02:16:38* So good luck. *02:16:45* We'll be 40 when it comes out. *02:16:47* That and Naughty Dog's new IP. *02:16:50* The two of those will That's a weird thing to say out loud. *02:16:52* A little bit. *02:16:55* Eloise will be in high school when the next God of War game. *02:16:57* If we're 40, well she'll be in middle school, I guess. *02:17:02* Twelve years. *02:17:05* Yeah, she'll be in middle school. *02:17:06* See, that's a little scary. *02:17:09* Um and on that note. *02:17:11* I have one final question for you, Max. *02:17:14* Oh, wait. *02:17:16* Well then I'm gonna read it. *02:17:16* One final thing before we wrap up officially. *02:17:17* Uh obviously this is gonna be the final show in this God of War Season 2 feed for a bit, but do we do more episodes when the God of War TV show is out? *02:17:20* That is *02:17:32* Which will be in like what two or three years probably? *02:17:34* I don't know. *02:17:36* Are we doing stuff for the Last of Us TV show? *02:17:37* I don't know. *02:17:39* That seems like sufficient. *02:17:39* Or the Resident Evil TV show? *02:17:42* You're starting to pay you're starting to set expectations here. *02:17:46* Uh-oh. *02:17:48* The Paper Mario TV show? *02:17:49* Oh my gosh, please. *02:17:51* That's entirely stop at animation. *02:17:52* Sound cool. *02:17:56* You're making it sound really good. *02:17:57* And on that note, I think that does it for God of War Ragnarok. *02:18:00* Thank you so much for listening. *02:18:04* If you'd like, you can follow the show on Twitter at Chapter Select. *02:18:05* You can follow Logan on Twitter at Moreman12 in his writing over at comicbook. *02:18:08* com. *02:18:12* You can follow myself on Twitter at Max Roberts143 in my writing over at maxfrequency. *02:18:13* net. *02:18:17* And until next time, adios. *02:18:18* Chapter Select is a max frequency production. *02:18:21* This episode was researched, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *02:18:24* Season two is hosted by Logan Moore and myself, and it's all about God of War. *02:18:29* For more on this season, go to chapterselect. *02:18:35* com forward slash season two. *02:18:37* To check out previous seasons, go to chapterselect. *02:18:40* com. *02:18:43* I feel like this generation's gonna be *02:18:45* elongated more than normal. *02:18:48* Unless we have some big breakfast. *02:18:51* Well the last one the last one was also elongated and so was the one before. *02:18:52* Well I feel like this one's gonna be even longer because of I mean this is a whole different discussion, but *02:18:55* just because of how supply has been over the past two years since the new consoles launched. *02:19:00* Like people still can't even buy a PS5. *02:19:05* So it's like why why why would they ab why would they abandon this gin within what, six to eight years if *02:19:07* Two years into the life cycle, they can't even get them into people's hands in a natural way. *02:19:13* I disagree with that. *02:19:18* Yeah, I I could go buy a PS5 right now. *02:19:19* I bet I could just buy one right now. *02:19:21* You right now? *02:19:23* Like on at retail. *02:19:24* At a local store? *02:19:26* I'm not talking about going into the store. *02:19:28* I'm just saying Oh no one buys if you wanna if you if you want a PS5 by now, like you can you just you just gotta pay close attention and *02:19:30* I don't think that. *02:19:39* I think you could go to PlayStation Direct right now and buy one. *02:19:40* I bet I can. *02:19:45* I'm pulling it up right now. *02:19:46* PlayStation. *02:19:47* See if you can. *02:19:48* All right. *02:19:49* I could sign in to get a PSVR two. *02:19:50* Shop. *02:19:53* I can buy the God of War PlayStation 5 bundle right this second. *02:19:55* I can buy just a PlayStation 5. *02:20:00* If I sign in to buy it. *02:20:03* I can buy the God of War bundle right now. *02:20:04* You should do that. *02:20:06* Make someone's holiday. *02:20:08* No, not this Christmas. *02:20:11*