# Chapter Select, [[S3E2 - Banjo-Kazooie - Nuts & Bolts]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Alright, well you're the host. *00:00* You you guide us through it, but you know you know you know what we need to talk about and you've got the list and the ranks, but we're still raccoon. *00:01* We do want to rank we still want to rank them though for consistency's sake. *00:08* One of you is a lager *00:11* And one of you is a Loras. *00:13* Anonymous Loris is editing. *00:17* What is a lig and liger? *00:19* Bred for their skills and magic. *00:21* Okay. *00:24* I was about to say, do you not know Napoleon Dynamite? *00:24* I know, but I'm wondering why not now as an anonymous chameleon. *00:28* Do I know Napoleon Dynamite? *00:33* I probably know Napoleon Dynamite more than anybody in this call right now. *00:35* Probably recite half the film. *00:39* Definitely more than me. *00:42* That's damn sure. *00:43* I showed Abby that for the first she saw it for the first time maybe a year ago, maybe two. *00:46* It blew her mind. *00:51* What is something else that he's making? *00:54* The Napoleon Dynamite guy? *00:58* Yeah, he is making a I think he's making a movie. *00:59* Yeah, he's making he he's making something like crazy that I heard the other day and I was like, wait, what? *01:02* Yeah, he's making a movie. *01:06* Do you remember when Oh that's right he's making the Minecraft movie starring Jason Momo. *01:09* That's what it was. *01:15* Yes. *01:17* He's directed? *01:18* That's what it was. *01:19* Because everybody was like freaking out about like Minecraft movie, Jason Momoa, oh my gosh. *01:20* And then I was like, wait a minute, Napoleon Dynamite Director is directing this. *01:24* Oh, the director of Napoleon Dynamite. *01:29* Yeah, the director of Napoleonite. *01:31* Not John Heater. *01:34* No, the director of Napoleon Dynamite is directing the Minecraft movie. *01:35* What? *01:39* I mean why not? *01:41* Perfect. *01:43* What are you gonna do today, Minecraft Steve? *01:45* What do I feel like wanna do? *01:47* Gosh! *01:49* I hope Jason Momoa's name is Steve. *01:51* I hope he is Steve. *01:54* What is the dragon in Minecraft called? *01:56* The nether dragon, right? *01:58* Come here, nether dragon. *02:00* Come here dinner, you fat lard. *02:01* Another dragon. *02:07* Teeny fat lord, come get some dinner. *02:08* Who who would th try and throw a football over the mountains? *02:13* I've been chatting with babes all day. *02:19* LoFuanda *02:24* This whole like Doctor Strange stuff has been I've it's making me wanna watch which make I guess makes sense. *02:26* It's been making me want to watch through all the Evil Dead stuff. *02:32* 'Cause I never watched the TV show. *02:34* I've never seen any of them. *02:36* So I want to watch the so the first movie is Evil Dead. *02:38* Second one is technically a remake of the first one. *02:42* How does that work? *02:47* I it's interesting. *02:49* And then Army of Darkness is the sequel to Evil Dead 2. *02:50* It's like a couple of things. *02:54* Is the first Evil Dead like kind of serious? *02:54* And then it just gets stupid from there. *02:57* Where you just screensaw hands. *02:58* So yeah, here's the thing. *03:00* It's serious, but it's also made on like a very low budget, so it's very corny. *03:01* Like you'll you'll understand why it's like a really *03:07* goofy cult classic and why like that is the Sam Raimi movie, I think. *03:11* Yeah. *03:15* It like you'll see that you're like, oh, okay. *03:16* All of that stuff is weaved into ev just about every single movie he's done after that. *03:20* And then yeah, Evil Dead Evil Dead 2 is probably my favorite one because it's equally goofy and *03:25* It's fun. *03:33* It's still kind of it's still very horror-based. *03:34* Army of Darkness is just like wild sci-fi. *03:37* Like he g he goes he teleports back in time to like the medieval times and he's like *03:39* Fighting zombies and stuff with a chainsaw thing, and he says he has a boomstick and that's what he calls his shotgun. *03:46* It's really good. *03:52* Boomstick, baby. *03:53* Is that where that comes from? *03:54* I believe so. *03:56* Um the budget for the original Evil Dead, $375,000. *03:58* Yeah. *04:04* And then Evil Dead 2 has $3. *04:05* 5 million budget. *04:08* And then Army of Darkness had an eleven million dollar budget. *04:10* So they they ramped up. *04:13* They yeah, they ramped up. *04:15* And then that ended *04:17* That's all the movies they have and then they did the Ash vs. *04:19* Evil Well then they have Evil Dead, the new one. *04:22* Isn't this one of Mario's favorite franchises as well? *04:24* Yeah. *04:27* It is. *04:27* My father-in-law apparently likes it a lot too. *04:28* Oh, they're great. *04:31* They're so good. *04:32* I mean if you if you could if you're good with the campiness, it's it's great. *04:33* Oh yeah. *04:37* Who doesn't love a little bit of camp? *04:37* But yeah, then they did the T V show, which is like a direct not direct sequel, but it's like a couple of y a few years later, after Army of Darkness and Ash is working at a grocery store. *04:39* And then all the zombies start attacking again and what on earth is happening? *04:51* My website has a hundred and seven views today, but only nine visitors. *04:55* Like, what is going on? *05:00* What is this? *05:02* I just kept on reloading the page over and over and over again. *05:03* Okay, folks. *05:09* Let's get going kinda soon. *05:12* Oh, by the way, Max, before we start, did you actually really want to see the Avatar trailer? *05:14* Or no? *05:19* What do you mean? *05:20* Like are you actually looking forward to that or no? *05:21* Oh, no, no. *05:24* I just I really can't believe I can't believe it's happening, you know? *05:25* Like that's the part I can't *05:31* Like that I'm proud of it. *05:33* I can. *05:34* I can talk about this movie. *05:35* Yeah, but James Cameron's literally done nothing else the past *05:38* 15 years? *05:42* This is the only thing he's talked about that he's like, no, I'm not doing anything else. *05:43* I'm just all avatar, all avatar. *05:48* Oh wait, alien covenant just for like a blip and then I was gonna say he does something, right? *05:50* He's produced *05:55* I think he produced Alien Covenant. *05:55* Produced. *05:58* I don't know how much that I mean the man is one of the marquee directors. *05:58* It's just one of the like I you know. *06:03* It's finally here. *06:06* It's just weird. *06:07* Well, aren't they filming them? *06:08* Isn't there gonna be another one next year? *06:09* Aren't they filming them in Saturday? *06:11* I don't know. *06:18* But I did the math the other day. *06:19* I was fifteen when the first one came out. *06:21* I will have a two-month-old baby by the time the second one comes out. *06:24* Like that's weird. *06:27* That's taking a long time. *06:29* The funniest the funniest thing about these films is I saw when they like were talking about them again the other day. *06:31* Goodness doggy. *06:38* Um Is your dog he in there with you? *06:40* Yeah, because he was cooped up while I was at the movie some *06:43* Um but they were talking like, oh yeah, we're gonna release this we're gonna release five Avatar movies and they'll all culminate in a six film. *06:46* And I s they said something dumb along those lines if people are like *06:54* Well yeah, that's usually how film sequels work. *06:58* They culminate as they go on and then they lead to the next thing. *07:00* Like yeah. *07:06* Thank you for that information, James. *07:07* I thought it looked good. *07:09* Like visually, I you know *07:10* It's a very pretty trailer. *07:12* Okay. *07:14* The film's oh my gosh. *07:15* Avatar three has been subject to eight delays, with the latest occurring on July twenty twenty. *07:17* It's scheduled to release in twenty twenty-four *07:22* Uh and two additional sequels are already greenlit to release in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty eight. *07:25* Yeah, every two years is their plan. *07:30* And they originally *07:32* This is who knows what it is. *07:33* They were gonna flip-flop with Star Wars. *07:37* So like one year was at one Christmas was Avatar, the next Christmas would be a Star Wars movie, and then the next Christ *07:39* They were gonna just each every other year you were gonna see one of 'em. *07:45* Now, who knows what they'll do with Star Wars film-wise, but *07:49* Avatar is I can't name a serious a sea a single character from those movies. *07:55* What? *08:00* From Avatar? *08:01* Name a character. *08:03* Name Segory Weaver. *08:04* Nope. *08:06* The actress. *08:07* What is anybody's name? *08:08* Zoe's in the I'm sure there's a John in there. *08:10* Johnny. *08:12* Mr. *08:16* Wheelchair Sam Worthington who becomes a blue walking name. *08:17* Oh he's say his name is Sam. *08:20* See, I don't even know the main. *08:21* No, it's the actor's name. *08:23* Again, we we only know the actors names. *08:24* What is he no, wait, hold on *08:27* See, I'm sure I'm sure there's a man named John. *08:28* No, his name is Jake in the movie. *08:33* That's what I said. *08:35* Well, congratulations, you nerd. *08:36* Um *08:41* You know, I may actually see the re-release of this movie. *08:43* What they're updat they're re-releasing the first one with updated visuals *08:47* They're like patch in the movie. *08:51* It's a next gen port of the movie. *08:52* I don't know why they're so obsessed with making sure that this stays the top grossing film of all time, but I think James Cameron really wants it. *08:54* He's what does Disney care? *09:01* They own it all. *09:04* So Okay, I can confirm there is no Johns in this movie. *09:05* Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between a different series of games to explore their evolution, design, and legacy. *09:10* I'm your host for this episode, Logan Moore, and today we are going to be talking about the Banjo Kazooie series once again for our season 3E that we are in the midst of, and we are talking about nuts and bolts *09:21* in today's episode. *09:33* Joining me as always is Max Roberts. *09:34* Hi Max. *09:38* Hello. *09:40* Are you ready to build a car? *09:40* Or a boat. *09:43* Isn't that the song that they sing in Frozen? *09:45* Can you build a car? *09:49* Can you build a car? *09:51* No, I don't think that's quite how it goes. *09:52* I mean you could probably build a snowman car. *09:55* You probably could in this game. *09:58* They do give you a lot of customization tools to build things. *09:59* And that's probably the best part about the game. *10:03* Uh spoiler alert. *10:06* Spoiler alert for how we feel about this game. *10:08* Uh so this episode we will be joined by a guest later on, and we will get to that in a bit. *10:11* Uh but per usual here on Chapter Suck we wanted to open up and talk about nuts and bolts. *10:16* What is this game? *10:22* When did it release? *10:23* Who made it? *10:24* Let's talk about all the. *10:25* staple things about uh Banjo Kazooie Nut and Bolt. *10:27* Uh the game, like its predecessors in this larger Banjo Kazooie series, was made by Rare. *10:30* Uh the game was published by Microsoft though. *10:37* This was the first game uh I mean Brare had been purchased and they had released *10:40* uh Grunty's Revenge and I guess technically Banjo Pilot uh under Microsoft, even though Microsoft did not publish those games, but this was the first game *10:45* uh since rare had been acquired by Microsoft that they published uh with Microsoft Studios. *10:55* Therefore the game only came to the Xbox 360. *11:00* It launched on November 11th, 2008 *11:04* Uh the game director once again same game director as Kazooie and Tui, uh which is pretty interesting when you think about how much this game zagged compared to the others. *11:07* Uh game director was Greg Mayles. *11:20* It was produced by Roger Carpenter at Microsoft Game Studios. *11:22* The music was done by Grant Kirkhope, once again, the composer of the previous games, alongside Robin Beanland and David Klinick, I believe. *11:26* Yeah, that looks correct to me. *11:35* The three of them actually are all rare composers, and so they kinda all came together for this game. *11:36* Rare has had a lot of composers over the years that have uh *11:43* Like David Wise is another big one that I think of the guy who did the uh Donkey Kong Country series. *11:48* Um they've always had a lot of different talent over there in the music department. *11:54* Um even though Grant Kirkpo even though Kirkhope and Wise I feel like get a lot of the credit for a lot of things they do. *12:00* Um they've always had some other people *12:05* Over there working behind the scenes. *12:08* Uh the game's Metacritic score was a 79 out of 100, which I think is kind of *12:09* surprising, maybe to a degree, because this is the entry in the series that people bash on pretty frequently. *12:17* Uh so you would think that maybe before you come to listen to this episode that the game would have *12:22* Metacritic average maybe in the sixties or so, but nope, it's teetering on an eighty there at seventy-nine, so it's essentially the same score as Mario Kart Double Dash. *12:27* Sure. *12:38* Was that is that actually the Metacritic average? *12:39* I don't know if that's the Metacritic average. *12:41* I do know that IGN's review was a 7. *12:42* 9 though. *12:45* Yeah, I feel like Mario Kart Double Dash would have been higher overall, but I know that was always the joke about IGN's score. *12:45* Um so yeah, this game was not *12:52* Really hated widely by critics when it came out. *12:54* Uh over the years though, that tune has sort of changed, I think, amongst general audiences and a lot of fans who have played this game over the years. *12:58* Um *13:07* So yeah, there's a lot to dive into with Banjo doing nuts and bolts here, and so let's dive into it with our guest for the episode, our friend Michael Ruiz. *13:07* Hello, Michael. *13:17* Hello howdy, how are you guys? *13:19* Uh okay, I guess. *13:22* I mean we're talking about banjo kazooe nuts and bolts, so I can *13:24* Only do so well, I guess. *13:28* I guess. *13:30* I'm flying sky high because you're here with us, Michael. *13:31* Oh thank you. *13:34* So uh *13:36* I guess to explain why you're here to some degree, uh, let's talk about our experiences at this game. *13:37* And Michael, the reason you're here is because you have always *13:43* loudly told us that nuts and bolts is your favorite banjo game. *13:47* Uh was I memeing? *13:51* Yeah. *13:53* Do you regret now saying that? *13:56* Probably. *13:58* I don't regret it. *14:00* But I guess we could get into that. *14:01* What is your actual history with the game? *14:03* Uh it was a game that I rented at a blockbuster uh when it came out. *14:05* It is the one that I always remember as far as that. *14:10* Like as like one of the ones that *14:12* It's one of the games I remember playing from a blockbuster. *14:14* It's like that's the nostalgia factor for me. *14:17* Having those memories attached to that kind of thing. *14:20* Um, especially during that time. *14:23* Because the Xbox 360 was like other well, there's the GameCube, I guess. *14:25* But the 360 was like my game system. *14:28* The GameCube I was still sharing with people, but the 360 was my system. *14:30* I also connect it with this was the first game I remember. *14:34* Connect because Xbox Connect. *14:38* This was also the first game I think *14:40* It was like the same it came out around the same time where you were able to download games on your Xbox 360 from the disc so then it was faster to load video games. *14:43* Like you could install from the disk instead of reading it off the disk. *14:54* It was like a new update they put because what this came out. *14:58* It still wasn't fast. *15:00* Like for the *15:02* And I thought like, oh, maybe I could just download games into my Xbox 360 and never pay for a game ever again. *15:05* And it doesn't work that way, it turns out. *15:11* Still doesn't work that way, unfortunately. *15:14* It reminds me the PSP did that too, like with *15:16* Birth by Sleep or Peacewalker, you could install chunks of the game to help it load faster. *15:19* Well, I mean that's how that's how Xbox One or Xbox Series X and PS5s are. *15:24* You when you download a game you off the disc and *15:30* Well yeah, but I mean like you're still downloading like I don't know. *15:33* It's that same kind of install procedure, so *15:37* Yeah, it's just a game that I I liked Banjo Kazooie, uh the first one. *15:42* I played only a little bit of the second one, but the first one's like one of my favorite platformers of all time, so *15:47* I went to this one like, oh this will be fun and stuff and I like it but it's definitely very different. *15:53* So *15:59* 2008, you remember it a little differently. *16:01* Yes, definitely. *16:04* Max, what's your story with this? *16:06* Because if I'm not mistaken, you were kind of more blind to this one. *16:08* I really have no ex no history or experience with this game. *16:12* It's more been just kind of through the social talk about it, just people memeing on it and joking about it. *16:15* I really was never *16:23* I didn't have a 360. *16:25* Um, my first Xbox I got when Halo 5 came out. *16:26* So kind of right after Halo 5 came out, so when I got an Xbox. *16:31* And when I never played this, never really saw gameplay. *16:36* I do remember the reveal trailer. *16:40* Um, I re-watched that today and knew that I had seen that before because it's all *16:42* this like pencil animation with the 3D model of banjo and Kazooie. *16:48* It has none of the construction element in it. *16:54* Um I suppose you could allude to it through the pencil drawing kind of blueprint style, but *16:57* Yeah, really I have no uh there's probably an E3 demo that I saw at one point, but I've washed that away from my brain *17:03* Yeah, my so my memory with this was it's weird because I can pinpoint the exact second I realized that this game existed and it was via a *17:11* Game Informer magazine, I believe. *17:21* Because back then that was still kind of a uh like things like I don't know, I was watching X Play at that time and I'd watch E3 each year, but I wasn't following game news like *17:23* Moment by moment, second by second, kinda like we can it do nowadays, like in the age of Twitter and social media and things like that, where you can keep up with those things a little bit *17:34* be more easily. *17:43* So yeah, literally the first time I found out that this game w existed and it was coming out was in a magazine. *17:44* And I remember freaking out and being so excited that they were making another Banjo Kazooie game because I had obviously loved the original one. *17:50* uh as a kid and so to know that this was coming back I was just thrilled about. *17:58* I didn't really know anything too much about it. *18:03* I mean again I read *18:06* the descriptions for it in the magazine and I watched a couple things for it and I just generally knew when it was coming out and then I asked for it for Christmas one year and I got it for Christmas. *18:08* And I played it for a couple hours. *18:18* I think my old save is actually was actually still *18:21* Actually no, my my old save wasn't still active when I played this uh this time around, but just looking at my achievements that I had gotten before, I think I got around 20. *18:26* or so jiggies in the game. *18:35* So I had played it, but I stopped and I always said that I would get back to it. *18:38* And it's funny 'cause like over the years I've *18:44* dunked on this game and joked about this game and kinda everything uh played along with everything else that people say about it. *18:46* But at the time when I played it I didn't really like *18:53* I didn't cognizantly know that I hated it. *18:56* I was like, oh, this isn't bad. *18:59* It's more banjo. *19:01* I'll play this at some point. *19:03* But there's a reason it like fell by the wayside on my backlog, and that's because *19:04* The game stinks. *19:10* It's not fun to play. *19:11* And I I knew that in the time, but I just like was not willing to admit that and admit that I had no desire to play it. *19:13* It's that mental hurdle of like, well, you well, you didn't, but your parents bought the game and that's the game that you have and so you decide that you like it because that's the game you can play. *19:20* I mean and it came out in two th it came out in two thousand eight, so I would have been fourteen years old, so I didn't have a job or any sort of steady income. *19:31* So yeah, it was like one of those things where it's like, oh, this is the game I got. *19:39* I *19:42* If I wanna play this at some some point, I probably will and never did. *19:43* Especially because like it was one of those things where I was such a huge fan of banjo, even though I had never *19:47* Played two E or anything like that. *19:54* Literally I was just a huge fan of the first game. *19:55* So it's a huge fan of that IP and that franchise and I felt like I need I owed it to myself to play that game, but *19:57* Yeah, I didn't for one reason or another. *20:04* Which I guess leads into us talking about just our general impressions on having played it this time around. *20:06* Um *20:12* I mean just for myself. *20:13* Yeah. *20:15* I think this game still stinks. *20:15* I think this game sucks, actually. *20:16* Um I think uh I mean we've we're recording this a little bit later since we I think we've played it, at least for myself. *20:18* I beat it um *20:25* So I'm not as I'm not as raw in my feelings at in this moment as I was if we would have recorded this a couple days ago. *20:28* But in a general sense, yeah, I think this game sucks. *20:34* I think this is one of the worst games we've ever played for chapter select. *20:37* And I will get into *20:40* great detail about why I feel this way as we go on with the episode. *20:42* But I just feel like there are s it's not even just I think the core of the game is bad, but there's a lot of like little small nitpicky things that I also just cannot stand with this game. *20:45* Um and I'll I'll bring up some of those more later. *20:56* And I I don't think the I don't think the game as a whole is unsalvageable or anything. *20:59* I think there are some good aspects of it, but yeah, for the most part, this game sucks. *21:02* I I do not like this video game. *21:07* Um *21:09* Michael, is this still your favorite banjo game? *21:10* No. *21:13* It's not. *21:14* It's not my favorite banjo game. *21:15* It is. *21:17* I am more, I am probably way more positive on it than you are, though. *21:18* I do the thing that I just don't like about it is that there's nothing to really there's no reason to actually do any of the objectives that they want you to do. *21:23* It's just you're just doing them. *21:31* And I'm like, okay, this is just what *21:33* Like, I'm at I I did not beat the game. *21:35* I'm at like I think I'm at 30 jiggies or something like that. *21:38* And I've done like two or three of the boss fight things with Gruntilda or whatever, and I'm just like, is this this must just be the game? *21:43* I'm at thirty jiggies. *21:50* It's like halfway through the game. *21:52* This must be what the game is. *21:53* Until the end. *21:55* So *21:56* That's the only thing. *21:56* There's no like real draw to actually do any of the stuff that it's asking you to do. *21:57* It's just like, oh, you know, use these things to build vehicles to then finish these objectives. *22:01* The thing that I do like about it is like all the *22:07* I think you could get really creative with some of the vehicle stuff and like building something and then doing the objective that they want you to do, I found very satisfying. *22:09* Like there was one time where there was like a hoverboat race. *22:18* And I just put like three medium engines on it and went super fast around it and like clapped everyone. *22:21* I'm like, this is sick. *22:25* Like this is really like that that was great. *22:26* But *22:29* When it wants you to do certain things and you're like banging your head on stuff, it is so annoying and garbage and I hate it. *22:29* So when it does it has in my mind it has really high highs for like the satisfaction stuff, but when it's *22:37* Really frustrating. *22:44* It is so unsatisfying. *22:45* I just want to turn it off. *22:47* Max, what are your general thoughts on nuts and bolts here? *22:49* Yeah, it's saying it *22:58* It's interesting. *23:01* I think up front, without having read or watched or done any research beforehand, this game feels like something that was designed *23:03* One way and then banjo is just added. *23:14* Yeah. *23:16* Um the old Star Fox adventures, you know. *23:17* Exactly. *23:20* Dinosaur Planet turns Star Fox. *23:20* Turns out *23:23* Allegedly, according to this video I saw that I think was included in Rare Replay, the original plan for this game was like remake banjo, and we don't want to do that. *23:24* We'll have like AI grunty and banjo and then you play as banjo in the same world and then that didn't work. *23:34* And they're like, let's build cars. *23:40* And I just *23:42* It's like it's actually a pretty neat game mechanically speaking of building vehicles and traversing *23:44* these environments. *23:53* But the the fact that Banjo is and all that that entails is just wrapped up in it where it's trying to be a *23:54* exploratory platformer, but car vehicle game. *24:03* Like the two don't mesh. *24:06* If this was just a it's not even pushing you to explore either. *24:08* Is that is not like it's like making you go to set points on the map to interact with people and *24:11* And do things, yeah. *24:16* It's just go from A to B, yeah. *24:17* And it I that it they conflict with each other, and so it's *24:20* That's the frustrating part. *24:25* And it's like Michael said, there are some challenges where to do this, and it is so unnecessarily difficult. *24:26* I think *24:33* You know, we'll talk about it in the gameplay and stuff, but I think some of the vehicle handling type stuff is really terrible. *24:34* But in general, this game *24:41* just feels like an amalgamation almost like the vehicles you're building itself, an amalgamation of parts, and I don't think it sticks any sort of landing or crosses any sort of finish line. *24:44* Or floats across any body of water. *24:54* Let's uh so I to provide some context here, we're still gonna rank the levels and talk about a couple other aspects of the game here in a little bit, but *24:56* Based on my own notes that I have here, I just kinda want to go down a list of the things that I think are wrong with this game. *25:06* And uh I don't I don't mean I don't mean like dump them all out there at one point, but more just use them as jumping off points for us to have larger discussions because I I think *25:12* Uh because there are a lot of problems in this game and I think it's with a lot of the core elements of the game itself. *25:21* Um I mean just for starters like *25:27* Like the story is terrible in this. *25:30* Like not that it needs It's non-existent. *25:32* Yeah. *25:36* Like in my mind. *25:37* Yeah, it's just well like it's terrible in *25:38* I like the opening. *25:42* I like the idea that I like the idea that Banjo and Kazooie haven't gotten to do anything for years because Grunty's just been dead. *25:43* So they got fat and washed up. *25:50* But then you introduce this character Log, the Lord of Games, who just appears out of nowhere and is like, hey *25:52* I know. *25:59* What if I whisked you away to my world and you just drove a car all the time? *26:00* How does that sound? *26:04* Like it doesn't make any sense why he's showing up. *26:05* I like the meta elements of this game a little bit, but that's almost something that was done in *26:08* the previous games as well, so it's not even an aspect of this game exactly. *26:13* I think some of the writing is still okay, but it's the overall story that is just *26:18* There's no point to it. *26:24* Like he like even log himself like whisks you away to this other world and is like, oh, here's this world. *26:25* You can get into these doors if you have jiggies, and there's a big door at the top, and you if you get that many jiggies, you can get in up there, and it's like, okay, well *26:31* Is there any point to any of this? *26:39* And he's like, oh, well, yeah, you can fight Grunty sometimes too. *26:40* Okay, that's about it. *26:44* See ya. *26:45* Like there's no *26:45* Like like at least in the other games in in Kazooie and Tui, like Grunty did a bad thing and they had to go out and *26:48* Like in the in the first game she kidnaps Tootie. *26:57* In the second game she starts nuking jinjos and nuking uh bottles the mole or whatever. *27:00* Like she starts killing people and they feel they need to go after her. *27:05* And this it's just like, hey, I'm gonna *27:08* Bring you to this world and you guys can just fight for old time's sake, I guess. *27:11* It's like what? *27:14* Why? *27:15* Huh? *27:16* What is this? *27:16* Yeah, it feels like it's more of like a like a cell it's supposed to be a celebration of *27:17* Banjo Kazooie. *27:23* Like that's what I feel like they're going for. *27:24* And they kind of just fall flat on it, especially with like all the worlds, right, that they're that are in there. *27:27* Like *27:32* Like you got the banjo land or whatever, you got like the logbox seven twenty, right? *27:32* Is that what it's called? *27:37* All that stuff feels like celebrations of of the game itself and stuff like that. *27:39* And even the writing, especially in the beginning, seems like that's what it's supposed to be. *27:42* But then you just end up to celebrate it, you're going into like to celebrate a platforming game, you're then building cars to dis like to just destroy things. *27:47* Like it's kind of *27:55* Let's celebrate the past by doing these weird things that have nothing to do with Banjo Kazuya in the slightest. *27:56* Yeah. *28:02* I think it's almost *28:03* It's too self-aware. *28:06* It breaks the the fourth wall too much and I think it's at a detriment. *28:07* It's almost like a comedian that gets up on stage *28:11* and then only makes fun of themselves in really bad ways. *28:14* Like it's not a funny way that they poke fun at themselves. *28:18* There's like a Mario reference in this game, isn't there? *28:21* There is early early on. *28:23* They made it an Italian plumber. *28:24* Yeah. *28:26* I just I don't I actually don't like that Banjo and Kazooie are like fat gamers that eat pizza. *28:27* Like I love it. *28:33* I think that's a funny jumping off point for Banjo is a bro and you could tell from his little sharp *28:34* tooth necklace. *28:39* He and like the biggest thing. *28:40* I think that's a very funny jumping off point for a better story *28:45* Sure. *28:49* If they had gone somewhere with it, yeah. *28:51* But they I noticed a theme throughout of *28:54* They had all these jokes about reusing assets or cutting content. *28:58* They even make call back the or literally the first thing you do in the game is it's like, oh okay, we're gonna make this a classic collectathon and like a bajillion *29:03* things appear on the screen at once and they're like, go collect them, go. *29:11* Which that was actually kinda that was kind of fun. *29:15* I thought that was a little bit more funny because it was gameplay uh like there was a gameplay aspect to it too where they literally *29:18* Yeah. *29:25* It just they it was like almost as if they were saying making games is hard and we're just gonna reuse there was one mission with bottles. *29:26* Where you go up and bottles describes this thing you're gonna do. *29:35* I forget exactly what the thing was, but as soon as the mission starts, it's like it's just another race. *29:38* And he's like, Whoops, I guess the devs ran out of time, so do a race for the 50th time. *29:42* I'm like *29:47* No, please give me something different than the three different versions of a race you've given me before. *29:48* I it's so aware and I think the wrong ways in the story. *29:55* The ending is grunty as packaging games. *30:00* Yeah, at rare. *30:05* Yeah. *30:07* It's implied. *30:07* And then she says she's gonna make a new game that will be the one where she wins. *30:08* So now she's become a game developer and she's gonna create a video game where she'll beat Banjo and Kazooie. *30:15* It's yeah, it's weird. *30:23* It's so *30:24* Odd. *30:26* I think my other big problem with the story, and this was less of a issue that I had with the first game, um, but it is it is prevalent here. *30:26* These games have these openings where it sets up the narrative. *30:35* and sets up what you're supposed to do in the game. *30:38* And then there's really no there's nothing story-wise that really happens *30:40* No. *30:46* From the first cutscene until the end cut scene. *30:46* And again, that's something that happens in the first game, but I think that's a little bit more forgivable in some senses. *30:49* Uh because that's an N64 game and that was just a character platformer, so it's really not supposed to be focused on story. *30:55* And this is I'm not saying I need Hideo Kojima link cutscenes in this game or anything like that. *31:01* But something to move the plot along the way that's what I'm saying. *31:08* There's such little context that there was multiple times in this game where I didn't even know what I was supposed to do. *31:11* The grunty fights are a good example of that where it's just all of a sudden like, oh now you're fighting Grunty. *31:16* It's like, well why why is it? *31:21* Like why is Grunty here now? *31:23* Why is Grunty showing up now? *31:24* Why do I need to fight her now? *31:26* What are what's *31:27* Steven the I mean I get that she's the villain, but like why are we just going at it for no reason? *31:28* Um yeah, like in a lot of the con *31:34* There's there's a lack of contextualization as well when it comes to going for to certain worlds within the hub world. *31:38* Because some areas I tried to go to and *31:44* Again, we talked about this with uh the first game, Max, is that there's instances where you can't get to certain areas or unlock certain things because you haven't gotten abilities that you don't need, but the game does a poor job of conveying, hey. *31:48* If you beat Grunty at each world, you're gonna get a new ability for your cart that you can use in the overworld, and then that'll allow you to unlock uh new areas. *32:02* So like I got enough *32:11* There was a point in the game where I had gotten enough jiggies to unlock like the fourth level, but I couldn't unlock the fourth level itself because I hadn't up gotten a certain upgrade for my car. *32:13* And so I was trying to like *32:24* Deposit one of those sphere things to unlock the level itself, but I couldn't even get to where it was telling me to go. *32:26* Because I hadn't beaten the grunty that would give me that upgrade. *32:33* But the game doesn't tell you that at any point because there's just no *32:37* context contextualization really at any point in this game? *32:42* The same thing kind of happened with me where like I think it was the when you try to unlock *32:45* uh the Coliseum level and Yes. *32:50* I just and I just got I just went into it like by happenstance. *32:53* Like I went *32:58* And drove like around there and then like the ball I was carrying like just randomly got sucked up by the magnet. *33:00* I'm like, why is this doing this? *33:07* It's like obviously it must be doing something here. *33:08* And then I think I was talking to you while I was doing it, Logan. *33:11* And I was like, all right, I don't even know where to go. *33:14* Yeah, you told me how to do it. *33:17* I was like *33:19* Why would like why would they make you go into the lake to then go up it like it never points you in that direction to be like, oh go into the lake to go up the hill? *33:20* Oh yeah. *33:27* I'm like I kept trying to climb that building next to the crane. *33:28* I got the car up there *33:31* And was trying to drive it and like find the switch and there was nothing. *33:33* Yeah. *33:38* I'm like, this is kind of weird. *33:38* Like I don't know. *33:40* But the game never even bothers to *33:40* Give you the slightest hint in that situation. *33:43* Which is fine. *33:45* I don't mind games not giving you hints occasionally 'cause it allows you to figure your own things out, but like *33:46* When you're literally trying to unlock something that you can't unlock. *33:51* But there's not even designed to point you in that direction. *33:55* It's just it's just how it exists. *33:58* Yeah. *34:01* Yeah. *34:01* A couple other things, uh we'll just go down the list here of things I have written down and we'll see if we want to have larger conversations about them. *34:02* I think there's too many steps as well in this game, like unlocking all the levels. *34:09* Like I would have liked if I just *34:13* Unlock the level? *34:14* Why do I have to deposit this sphere and do all this other stuff? *34:15* Why do I have to earn jiggies in the levels and then go to a jiggy machine and then un *34:19* uh throw the jiggies in my car and then take the car to the jiggy deposit. *34:25* Like that's just a like, why is that a thing? *34:29* Like I I get that they're wanting to incorporate the cars again. *34:32* It all comes back to the cars. *34:35* Please use your car. *34:36* Please hop in your car as much as humanly possible. *34:37* But like for stuff like getting the jiggies, like I I didn't understand why they kept making me do that. *34:40* I don't know if you guys felt the same way. *34:47* It never bothered me, I guess. *34:49* Yeah, it's not s it's not like one of the more egregious aspects of the game. *34:51* It was just something that I was like, why is this a thing? *34:54* If the jiggies would like constantly like fall out, if the physics of the game were like the jiggies are actually just loose things and are not actually attached to your cart, and they would just like flop around everywhere and then you'd have to re 'cause *34:57* One example that would happen is like when you get the first ball, I think when I first got it, the ball like rolled off, and then I had to go back up and grab the ball. *35:10* And so if that were to happen with the jiggies every time I did that, if they like fell off like that, if they weren't stuck onto that cart, like pretty well. *35:18* that would have been atrocious. *35:26* That would have been like the worst thing ever. *35:28* But luckily leaving the area with like five, seven jiggies. *35:30* Yeah. *35:34* I've straight up like with like *35:34* I don't know, with like three or four jiggies like jumped off of like the riverbank thing and then off of the thing and like they didn't fall off. *35:37* So it's like okay. *35:43* It is forgiving in that way for sure. *35:45* At least it's forgiving. *35:46* Uh it it's I don't know, it's fine, it's just *35:48* I think the thing that amplified my annoyance about this was when the cops start showing up later, there's like a weird-when did it become a GTA game? *35:51* GT Yeah, there's like a GTA aspect *35:59* I don't know. *36:01* Uh Mike, you didn't get in as far into the game, so I don't know. *36:01* Yeah, I feel like it starts ramping up. *36:05* Like all of a sudden these cops just start appearing and just start *36:07* crashing into you as you're trying to get the jiggies. *36:10* And it's like, why is this a thing? *36:12* Why why why are we just trying to block off the easiest thing here? *36:14* To me, like especially in the beginning of the game, like the vibe of the game is just like *36:19* You know, oh we're just doing this thing, we're, you know, celebrating Banjo Kazooie, we're having a good time, and then to just add something like that where they're just trying to *36:23* crash into you for no other. *36:31* Yeah, they're like, hey, what's a popular game? *36:32* GTA 4 is real big right now. *36:34* Let's throw some of that in here. *36:36* The thing that I didn't like is where they *36:38* Like the placement of the dispensers of the actual jiggies. *36:40* I hated those. *36:44* Like the the one for the Coliseum *36:45* Sucks. *36:48* I hate where that one's placed. *36:49* It's like in the it's caged in the building and they put these fences over there and there's *36:51* A way where like you'll get s you could get your cart like kind of stuck in the fences as you plow them down. *36:56* I'm like, dude, this feels like garb why am I doing this? *37:01* Why is this like this? *37:04* That was like the one time where I was like, this is terrible. *37:05* Like, why would they do that? *37:08* And then also the one that's for Banjo Land, where it's like off like far away from any entrance of any of the other *37:09* Yeah. *37:17* Uh like for their axe or whatever. *37:17* Like why is it out like I don't know, like you have to drive pretty far. *37:19* You have to drive over like o the water to get to it. *37:24* Yeah. *37:27* About about the jiggies in particular, just it's interesting *37:30* in a bad way. *37:35* That kind of if you look back at Kazooie and Tui, they they kind of tr *37:36* Trailblaze may not be correct. *37:43* I'm not quite sure historically like where it fit in. *37:44* But like when you play those games, you grab a jiggy, you just collect it immediately. *37:47* It's boom. *37:50* You do a little jig and jingle and you're good. *37:51* You're good. *37:53* Yeah. *37:53* And you know, that compared and you stay in the world. *37:54* And then you compared that at the time with Super Mario 64, and it was you went in and got one star. *37:57* And sometimes you could collect other ones, you know, 100 coins, the red ones, whatever. *38:03* And but then you would be spit out and you'd have to jump back in. *38:07* And so people would compare those one way or the other. *38:10* And Banjo kind of led the way of you get to stay in the world and engage with it. *38:14* But then nuts and bolts *38:18* almost reverts back to a 64 galaxy style approach of the world is now split into five, six different chunks, acts, which is *38:21* environmentally interesting because you could change the lighting or daytime or whatever. *38:32* And then there's jiggies within those acts that you could collect. *38:36* But then, like Logan was saying, then you collect 'em in there, then you gotta cash 'em outside and then go *38:40* Deposit them in your little piggy bank. *38:47* And I think it's interesting that the Sirius almost reverts that way. *38:49* And I wonder if it wasn't actually because of Super Mario Galaxy, which had come out a year prior in 2007. *38:55* And this mechanic could have been incorporated then. *39:02* If the game was announced in 2006. *39:05* you know, I don't know how long that dev cycle particularly was, but I mean the game wasn't fully revealed until two thousand eight it seems, based off you know, according to my research. *39:08* I think yeah, yeah, like early part of the year and then it was out in the latter part. *39:19* Yeah, and so you look at you look at game like Galaxy where it was praised for what it had done on the Wii and stuff, and it's hard not to imagine that they took inspiration from that, but then fused with this whole car thing, it *39:22* turned out even worse. *39:35* Yeah. *39:37* I I what was what was my train of thought? *39:38* I wonder if like the reason why they they uh designed like where the sp the dispensers were or like how they do that with the jiggies where you have to dispense them *39:40* Well so then you actually interact with that overworld because otherwise you probably wouldn't interact with it at all. *39:49* But then why is there an overworld in the game? *39:55* I mean yeah. *39:58* I mean I guess there's all there's always been an overworld in the banjo game, so I get that too. *40:01* But it was like a poorly constructed they were it's clearly trying to ape on like GTA or something like that. *40:07* Like even outside of the cops trying to run into UCOP. *40:13* Like it was clearly built with that sort of style in mind. *40:16* I just thought it was interesting that no one else is driving a vehicle. *40:19* I guess until the cops show up, but *40:23* For a game that is all about the vehicles, no one else is moving around in them outside of a race or mission involving other vehicles. *40:25* The game even yells at you if you get out of the car sometimes. *40:35* It's like like Mog will be like like one of the few things he will say is hey why are you running around? *40:39* Go hop in a car. *40:44* It'll work out better for you. *40:45* Like that's one of the few things *40:46* that the game does yell at you for, which is funny. *40:49* Yeah, I I I think the this is the biggest problem I have with it. *40:51* This is probably a larger disc this is probably the largest talking point I think we might have. *40:55* I wrote down, this game shouldn't be called Banjo Kazooie Nuts and Bolts. *41:00* This game should be called Mundane Tasks the Game. *41:04* Like *41:07* The entire runtime of this game, I cannot think of a single activity in this game that I did. *41:08* That is memorable. *41:16* Like I I collected all these jiggies. *41:18* I did all of these dumb little tasks for all the different people and all these different levels. *41:20* I cannot think of really any of them that are super memorable. *41:25* There are a couple that I can recall them. *41:29* Like that was kinda interesting and unique. *41:31* For the most part though, like Max was saying. *41:33* It's just like races and weird like shove a bunch of junk into this designated junk corner or s like I don't I don't know. *41:35* There it's like a bunch of *41:46* None of the tasks in this are interesting at all. *41:47* And I think the interest level comes with building a car that can do the task, and that's supposed to be where the fun is, is oh, I'll put together my own vehicle that can do this, but *41:50* They give you the blueprints to a lot of vehicles that can more than adequately complete these objectives that they're throwing at you. *42:00* And I don't think that it rel ever really *42:08* The game doesn't ever really push you, I think, until maybe the later levels to do the building stuff very heavily. *42:11* Um I was able to use the basic blueprints and maybe fine-tune 'em a little bit here and there, like throw an extra engine on this if I'm going to a race or throw an extra gun on this if I need more firepower. *42:20* Like just like small little tweaks like that here and there for *42:31* Vast majority of the game, and again, maybe you could say, well, if you you would have had more fun if you built your own thing, but also if I'm able to get the dumb Trophy Thomas trophy. *42:34* With these small little tweaks I'm making to the basic blueprints, why would I do anything else? *42:45* So I don't know. *42:50* I actually really appreciate that they give you *42:52* a library of blueprints because this is a game they easily could have said you have to build your own thing every time or build off of it. *42:55* But they thankfully give you of *43:02* a store and they pretty handily just give you a bunch of blueprints too, but they also let you buy pretty much whatever you would need for any type of situation. *43:05* I'm not in general a very creative person in games where you have to build or make something. *43:14* And having the shop be there and *43:20* generally having all the parts to make a vehicle work naturally as you play was a huge relief because if *43:24* Uh you could also just take that blueprint from Wumba and then tweak it like you were saying, Logan. *43:34* Like you could get the the helicopter with the the magnetic ball beneath it and tweak that with more power or whatever you even need. *43:39* And that relieved a creative pressure for me. *43:48* The really the only time I felt truly pressured was for the final boss having to *43:53* figure out gun placement and things like that because they really force it on you pretty str drastically there. *43:59* But I was happy that they gave players an option. *44:06* Yeah, I feel like *44:09* I I'm with you in that, like it is just a ton of mundane tasks, and I mean this is just me, I guess, repeating what you guys are saying, but I feel like if you are not into the process of building these vehicles *44:11* and stuff like to me that was what made the experience memorable. *44:23* Is like I'm building these things to complete these tasks and that's the fun of it. *44:28* And if you're not into that kind of thing, this game is very much not. *44:33* in your wheelhouse. *44:38* Like even for like the picking the blueprints and it's just tweaking 'em. *44:39* I think that's good as like a be like a *44:43* Especially if you're not good at that stuff, it's it's good to have those. *44:46* But I think eventually if you really want to have the fun with it, like building your own thing, seeing what goofy thing you can make and it actually work, I think is like *44:49* What makes the game fun at all? *44:57* Because all it is is it's all the same task in in every single level. *44:59* It's all the same stuff. *45:03* Yeah. *45:05* Uh all the gun stuff sucks, by the way. *45:05* But it's terrible. *45:08* I hate anything that had to do with gun combat. *45:10* My least favorite one. *45:12* It's a good thing you didn't do the final grunty. *45:13* Yeah, racing racing was great, I thought. *45:16* I had fun with that kind of stuff. *45:19* Um but yeah. *45:21* I I think if you're not building, like this is just gonna be a pretty *45:23* average to not fun game, but I think the building aspect of it is what makes it really good. *45:28* I think it's a I mean, like I said, I think it's a pretty good game. *45:34* And it's because of that kind of stuff. *45:37* I mean the building *45:39* Is so fundamental to the game. *45:41* I mean it's it's the name of the game essentially, build you know, nuts and bolts. *45:44* I think the building is *45:49* Good. *45:53* Mechanically, I think they've they found a good spot with the rules of this world where *45:54* You know, a wheel can go anywhere and a motor can go anywhere and it just works. *46:02* Like if you slap the motor on the side of the vehicle, it gives power. *46:07* It just works. *46:12* The classic Tom uh Todd Howard quote. *46:13* It just works. *46:16* Yeah. *46:17* And one of the great things about having a fully dynamic game engine is all of this just works. *46:17* It's not, I'm not kidding. *46:24* Yeah. *46:26* I think that's the right approach for this because it *46:27* That also alleviates creative pressure. *46:31* All like when I came to a challenge where I needed to create something *46:33* All I needed to focus on was getting just the types of parts somewhere on the vehicle. *46:39* And that let me do some interesting things. *46:45* I remember one challenge in particular. *46:47* I'm back, it's in nutty acres, and you had to protect this certain trophy from like flying attackers. *46:50* And I tried the mission three m three times or so flying and shooting, just trying to take them out, and it wasn't working. *46:59* Like I shooting, not great. *47:07* I know the exact one you're talking about. *47:09* Yeah. *47:11* So what I did *47:11* I built a tower and it it but it had a opening on the front. *47:13* But I built a tower out of heavy blocks, put four wheels and motors and gas on it to get up the hill. *47:18* And I just drove over the sh the uh the trophy and just sat there for the two minutes or whatever of the clock. *47:24* And the the planes were kamikaze diving down trying to take it out, but they couldn't get to it because I had positioned the vehicle where they couldn't hit it. *47:33* And so that was a creative moment where it wasn't a blueprint. *47:41* It was me just like, this is how I will solve this problem. *47:44* And it gave me the tools without having to worry about *47:46* This vehicle is clearly way too top heavy and like your wheels need to touch the engine. *47:50* Like none of that mattered. *47:54* It had cartoon physics almost laws of physics, I should say. *47:57* And then that is freeing. *48:01* So it's it's a really good building system, I think. *48:03* But you have to *48:07* enjoy what they like what you're building toward. *48:09* Uh you know what I'm saying? *48:13* Yeah. *48:14* Exactly. *48:15* What's funny about that though, again *48:16* Because I kind of mentioned this with the bluepr blueprints is like why would you waste any time building something like you built, Max, when the game is giving you things kind of on a silver platter in a lot of instances that you can just *48:18* use uh use that they're giving you. *48:31* For example, in that exact task or mission that you just talked about. *48:33* If you just drive up the hill, right off to the left is a stationary turret that they put there next to that *48:39* Trophy that you're supposed to block that you can just jump out of your car and then jump into that turret and you can just look up at the sky and you can just shoot them all down *48:47* And that is just there by default. *48:54* They just put the. *48:56* I never even saw that. *48:57* Yep, that's just sitting there. *48:59* So you're just supposed to hop out of it. *49:00* So the car you choose in that level really doesn't matter because all you need to do is *49:02* Drive up the hill, hop out of your car, hop into the turret, and then you can just shoot up there. *49:06* And that's it. *49:10* So that's what I'm saying. *49:12* Like you built this wild contraption that *49:13* Accomplished the task and did what you're supposed to. *49:16* I was just like, oh hey, look, they gave me a free thing. *49:18* I'll just jump in it here and complete the level the mission as well. *49:21* So I I think that in itself is kind of neat that you guys were able to solve the same thing with different *49:24* in a different per in a different way. *49:32* But I think like the draw and I don't again I'm this is not like necessarily defending it or anything, but I think the draw for like doing that kind of stuff is just *49:33* To i is playing it like an arcade game, getting the best times on stuff, which honestly I don't think would be fun in this game, but I see that draw like that being a draw. *49:43* Like there's the leaderboards and stuff like that and *49:53* I mean at the time at the time at the time that this game was came coming out, Xbox three sixty leaderboards were all the rage. *49:55* So uh *50:03* doing that kind of stuff would make sense, especially when it was much more active. *50:04* I mean now where you get the leaderboards option is just like kind of it's *50:09* It's kinda dead or whatever. *50:13* At least I when I tried to click on it it it didn't really show anything. *50:14* It doesn't look like it's uploading new times because I couldn't see either of your guys' times. *50:17* Yeah. *50:22* But *50:22* It does have a multiplayer mode where you would compete in challenges with your friends. *50:23* So not just trying to get to the top of the leaderboard, but you could, you know, theoretically the three of us could have like done a race together. *50:28* And that almost reminded me, Mike, of our like driver's license test in Gran Turismo, where it was like, I'm gonna beat Mike. *50:34* Now, we weren't choosing our cars or customizing. *50:43* I know that's an option in like GT Sport or whatever. *50:45* But I totally could see it where well Mike is faster than me. *50:48* Like I've got to tweak something on this vehicle. *50:53* I've got to make it lighter. *50:55* I've got to add a motor or something. *50:56* So I do see *50:58* uh it almost would have been a better like DiddyCon racing type game like a Banjo Kazooie racing game which it is in the multiplayer aspect it's *51:00* But if it was only a a DiddyCon racing where you could fly, drive or um sail a boat around these world it it is. *51:10* It's like DiddyCon racing and banjo Kazooie and Minecraft all in one game. *51:19* Yeah, and I mean we're playing this game like how many years after its release and almost it's fifteen. *51:24* Yeah, so I don't think *51:31* There's anything active about this game whatsoever. *51:34* So it's not like we could have actually really tried it. *51:36* Yeah. *51:39* Like to at what it would it what it could *51:39* Maybe was. *51:42* I don't know how well the multiplayer. *51:42* I I highly doubt it did like super well, but I'm sure like in its first year or so it was probably all right. *51:44* I'm looking it up here uh as we record and it's just basically the same thing. *51:50* Like you can complete in certain tasks like do a race or do a thing uh where it's like a sumo, like one of these is like *51:55* Complete in like a sumo challenge. *52:04* So a bunch of people get in like a ring and they gotta like blast each other out of the ring with whatever contraption they can make. *52:05* And then there's other ones that are *52:11* races and there's other ones that are dog fights, things like that. *52:13* Yeah. *52:18* I I I do think that there is a version of this game *52:19* And maybe there is now, because uh hundreds of thousands of games have come out, and I'm sure somebody has made something to this. *52:24* But I'm sh there is a version of this game that is actually really good, I think. *52:32* And the problem with this is that they strapped uh not maybe not that they strapped the banjo Kazooie name, because it sounds like they used like this was their vision for this game was for the Banjo-Kazooie game was this kind of *52:38* But I think there is a really interesting thing here. *52:51* I just don't think one, I'm not the audience for it necessarily. *52:55* But two, they just kind of put this they just strapped this like story mode on it when they could have just made this a really fun arcade experience. *53:01* Yeah. *53:09* Like that's where that's where my head was at the entire time. *53:09* Like if this was just like an arcade game where *53:11* They had like, oh, here's the racing menu game and you have like a bunch of different tracks and you have to build your own car in order to do this and then you do time trial modes of that and just do that. *53:14* Like that would be pretty fun to do that, you know? *53:23* Or here's this *53:26* Here's the domino thing, which I think sucked, but here's the domino thing and you have to crash into it and sh figure out a way to knock out all these dominoes and how fast you do it and how many dominoes you do will determine your leaderboard score or whatever. *53:27* Like *53:41* That kind of stuff is really fun, but to have it baked into a story mode, one makes no sense, and two is *53:41* It just draws it it just draws out the story mode that is just like there's nothing like really reeling you into it at all other than these games. *53:50* So it just becomes uninteresting. *54:00* But I I think the cherry on top of this bad Sunday of all the troublesome things that we're talking about with this game, uh, is something Max mentioned earlier, which is *54:02* The driving in this game is just bad. *54:14* They made a game all about driving, and the driving sucks. *54:16* It's hard to do that. *54:20* I disagree. *54:21* I think it feels terrible, and I think the thing that makes it feel even worse *54:22* is the clipping. *54:27* It is so easy to clip into other objects and other cars. *54:28* Clipping is bad. *54:33* It's really terrible. *54:34* Like especially the races when you're like on tight tracks and you're kind of bumping up against other people. *54:36* That's awful. *54:41* Like that is objectively awful. *54:42* I will not disagree with that. *54:45* I think the driving feels pretty darn bad. *54:46* And it's very *54:50* Like you can get used to it and you kind of start to understand how it works and stuff. *54:52* Like the helicopters are weird to control, but like you kind of learn how it works and you get used to it. *54:56* I think the general driving of the cars though specifically just does not feel good. *55:02* It feels very blocky. *55:07* Feels very much like you're just *55:10* I I don't know. *55:12* It it does not feel like you have any maneuverability in any of the vehicles that you make in this game. *55:13* Even the ones that are I think the racing cars, the ones that were titled as that, I thought felt fine. *55:18* I thought that I mean obviously it's not like I'm playing f Forza or something like that or I guess at the time Project Gotham Racing or whatever was around at that time, but it's not like I'm playing one of those games. *55:25* I'm Forza would have been around at this point I think. *55:36* I think so, yeah. *55:39* I think Forza 2 would have been out. *55:40* Um I don't even think Project Gotham raised. *55:42* I think that was done by then. *55:45* Anyway, whatever. *55:46* Uh *55:48* Yeah, I think the driving like the racing car stuff was fine. *55:49* I the helicopters were not great. *55:52* But I thought like the airplane flying stuff was fine and I thought the general driving was fine. *55:53* I thought initially the initial cart driving was what was bad. *55:58* I thought, and it leaves a really bad first impression. *56:03* And if they just given you a car that handled better like those racing cars, I think it would have been fine from the beginning. *56:06* But they don't do that. *56:13* So *56:14* Yeah, my my biggest issue with the navigation of vehicles was the clipping that Logan talked about. *56:15* If you had a nudge a rock *56:21* You get spun out, you're stuck, do a front flip or something like that. *56:24* If you if you even get close to another racer, you will both lock and just do like a hard ninety degree turn in either direction and spin. *56:29* Like *56:37* You can't touch anybody. *56:37* My bigger problem was the flying. *56:39* I wrote, flying is like trying to steer an inner tube covered in oil and shaving cream on a frozen lake. *56:42* Like the flying is just like all over the place. *56:48* You can you just hard bank if you even touch the stick. *56:52* I did not care for the flying missions at all. *56:56* The flying I had actually I thought it was fine. *57:00* It's anytime I had to use a gun on a vehicle was the time I was like, please no. *57:03* I want nothing to do with guns on vehicles in this game. *57:08* This is no twisted metal. *57:11* No. *57:13* Is there anything else specific uh that you guys want to talk about before we maybe get into talking more about the levels specifically and maybe ranking them? *57:14* Um *57:24* I know there is one thing. *57:25* Well maybe you can you and I can just touch on this briefly here, Max. *57:26* Uh, because I know Mike didn't beat the game. *57:29* Just how did you feel about the ending stuff? *57:32* Uh the final world. *57:35* Cause that final boss is terrible, but I think the things that happened before are also terrible. *57:38* Like the game is even self-aware to the point where it's like, how can we fit a quiz in the end of this Banjo Kazooie game? *57:43* And they *57:49* make you take part in a six part trial and then they make you answer questions in the middle of this and it's I looked okay, here's what I'll say. *57:51* I looked this up and like *57:59* Thank the Lord I did not read this game. *58:01* I don't think I could stomach what they made you do in the Vendor. *58:05* I was screaming it's I'll I'll say this my funniest anod anecdote about the end of the game *58:08* It was two it was like 2 30 in the morning when I beat this. *58:13* And I was slowly losing my mind against the final boss because it is so that last I didn't have any pro I didn't have *58:17* I didn't have any problem with the final boss except for the final one where she hops on her dumb broomstick and starts flying around. *58:26* I was literally screaming at my TV. *58:33* Like, this is what you did? *58:36* This is the final thing you did with this IP rare! *58:38* Like I was like screaming mad in the middle of the night because I realized that this is the final thing that has ever involved Banjo Kazooie *58:41* in the past fifteen years is this dumb boss fight that is so horrible in this dumb final trial and it's *58:49* Literally the last thing that that those characters have ever done other than like whatever, appearing in Smash, I guess. *58:58* But that is the last thing that we have seen Banjo Kazooie do is that stupid fight. *59:05* And it like literally *59:11* It made me so mad that that is how the franchise is has ended at this point. *59:13* Is that. *59:18* Like when you look back on the last thing that Banjo Kazooie ever done, it's that. *59:19* It's so anyway. *59:23* Go ahead, Max. *59:25* It's a terrible fight. *59:26* It's a whole terrible thing. *59:28* I uh initially people had told me, I think, including you Logan, you were like, get ready, the final world, you have six challenges. *59:29* I was prepared for six different markers on the map. *59:35* Thank goodness it's just *59:38* Two. *59:40* Go to log and he makes you do six easy things and then you fight Grunty in a five-phase or four-phase fight. *59:40* I think it's five. *59:47* I think it's five, yeah. *59:48* My problem, Logan, and you've you've laughed at me for this *59:49* Is I just thought if you beat Grunty, credits will roll. *59:53* You have to beat Grunty and get the Jiggy for credits to roll. *59:58* And so I got *01:00:02* Through all of her phases except for the broom, fine and dandy, but at that point I had lost my wings. *01:00:05* And so I couldn't fly anymore. *01:00:13* And I didn't have um I had the homing missile, because Logan said get the homie missile. *01:00:15* But I it the homie missile does not *01:00:20* Just go straight there. *01:00:23* It's almost like a really terrible red shell. *01:00:25* But it's better than Mario Kart. *01:00:27* It's better than the alternatives because I don't know how many But it would just *01:00:28* what it would do is it go towards her and then just go wide and fly around her in a circle that would never close. *01:00:33* And so the missiles would never hit her. *01:00:39* And so I s drove up to the top of Spiral Mountain and would wait for her to be *01:00:41* in the the line of sight on the same level and like fire and hopefully hit her. *01:00:47* And that took about half an hour *01:00:52* And then I beat it and it was like, well, sorry, you need to do it better. *01:00:55* Max literally messaged me as soon as he beat it. *01:00:59* He's like, wow, I did it. *01:01:02* It took me 20 minutes or something. *01:01:04* And then I was like *01:01:06* Oh well then you didn't do it and he's like, wait, what? *01:01:06* Because credits enroll, they just made fun of me and said, nah, you gotta get the jiggy. *01:01:10* And so then I retweaked the vehicle and added an automatic like bird missile and *01:01:14* Homing, and I took better care of my wings. *01:01:21* I couldn't see I couldn't see Max's face, but I felt like his soul definitely left his body when he learned that. *01:01:24* It did. *01:01:30* It absolutely did. *01:01:30* And *01:01:32* The ending is just so stupid. *01:01:33* You know, you're like back at your house. *01:01:35* Grunty's packing up boxes. *01:01:37* It's just a it's a big, big old bummer. *01:01:39* And all the other bosses are just as bad. *01:01:43* One of them is play water polo. *01:01:45* One of them is uh just tip grunty over and you do I multiple ones of them are actually just tip grunty grunty over and take something out of her vehicle. *01:01:47* Yeah, yeah, I I did three of them and they're not great. *01:01:57* Yeah, they're not fun. *01:01:59* Um Yeah. *01:02:01* Which you would think they would try to find a way to make them a little bit more fun because this is the only game in the series, to my knowledge at least, where you're fighting Grunty multiple times. *01:02:02* Well you know it's kind of outside the in-battle and they don't *01:02:10* do anything with it really. *01:02:14* Saying this now actually is reminds me earlier when you mentioned Game Informer was when you became aware of it. *01:02:16* I started doing a deep dive to try and find the issue. *01:02:21* I think it may have been May 2008, the cover game was Gears 4 too. *01:02:24* But anyway, like right before that magazine came out, NeoGaff and GameFacts and stuff were talking about a leak from Game Informer *01:02:28* And a quote was that Rare said there were fifteen different challenges spread across six different levels. *01:02:36* Well that sounds about right. *01:02:41* But I'm wondering if those fifteen different challenges include each variation of fighting Grunty, because one of them is like take something out of her vehicle. *01:02:42* Uh one is tip her over, one is a water polo. *01:02:51* So that beefs up the different types of challenges because really the different types are races *01:02:53* fighting and pushing things or moving things out of the way. *01:02:59* Fluffing up their own count. *01:03:03* Yeah. *01:03:05* Yeah. *01:03:06* There is a *01:03:06* There's just not much in this. *01:03:07* Uh like I said, there's really not a lot of depth. *01:03:10* The tasks they make you do throughout the entire game are *01:03:13* very bland and boring. *01:03:16* Yeah. *01:03:17* Um there's a couple other things that I want to touch on uh here in a bit. *01:03:18* We'll talk about obviously uh the legacy of this game and uh maybe talk about uh the music and stuff like that in in just a second. *01:03:22* I do want to rank the levels though. *01:03:29* really quickly. *01:03:30* So this is something we have been doing to catch Michael up to speed. *01:03:31* We've decided to rank all the levels and all the banjo games throughout the course of season 3E here. *01:03:34* So we did this in our first episode with Banjo Kazooie. *01:03:40* You can go listen to that episode if you haven't already. *01:03:43* But uh the levels here in Nuts and Bolts, there is not many. *01:03:46* There is Showdowntown, which is the main hub world. *01:03:51* There's Nutty Acres, Logbox 720, Banjo Land, Jigosi Jigosium, which is *01:03:54* Which is such a weird thing to say. *01:04:00* The Terrarium of Terror and Spiral Mountain. *01:04:02* I will come out *01:04:07* I would like to rank these wake more quickly than we did with the last time around, because that took a lot of time previously. *01:04:10* Michael, what was the last level you played out of curiosity in this game? *01:04:15* Did you say you got to the Jigoseum? *01:04:18* Jigoseum. *01:04:20* Okay. *01:04:21* And I mean like *01:04:22* I technically saw Spiral Mountain in the very beginning of the game. *01:04:22* So real realistically the only one I didn't see is Terrarium of Terror. *01:04:26* Okay, well uh I have news for you. *01:04:30* That's probably the worst one. *01:04:32* I hate that level. *01:04:33* I think the bottom is atrocious. *01:04:34* I think the bottom three, uh, for sure, is Terrarium of Terror, Spiral Mountain, Showdown Town. *01:04:37* I think those are terrible. *01:04:44* I think Showdowntown's a bad hub. *01:04:45* I think Spiral Mountain is like nostalgic and I guess it's cool to see it. *01:04:47* It's ugly though. *01:04:53* They've made Spiral Mountain very ugly. *01:04:54* What you are doing there is also just abysmal *01:04:56* like we just talked about. *01:04:58* File boss sucks. *01:04:59* And then the little six per five or six level trial there also is terrible. *01:05:00* So it's like I would say that's the bottom three for sure in my opinion. *01:05:05* I don't know where you're at with that max. *01:05:10* I wouldn't disagree. *01:05:12* Okay. *01:05:14* The worst is Terrarium of Terror. *01:05:14* And the problem with that one is that they are spheres. *01:05:16* Like all placed around. *01:05:20* And so really the only way to truly get anywhere is fly and the fly like the helicopters and stuff there's no cohesiveness to it. *01:05:22* There's no flow to it. *01:05:28* There's no d most disjointed level for sure. *01:05:29* I like the theme idea of it. *01:05:32* Plants, aliens, it's kind of an interesting mix. *01:05:35* But structurally that level has no flow. *01:05:39* It's chunky. *01:05:41* It's chopped up. *01:05:43* It's not good. *01:05:43* I think that one's dead last for sure. *01:05:44* And I know Michael, you can't speak to that, but trust us. *01:05:45* It's I'll trust you. *01:05:48* It's very, very bad. *01:05:50* Because I remember unlocking that level and I was getting a little bit burnt out with all the others and I was like, oh wow, okay, I unlock the final level. *01:05:51* I hope that this one's actually at least a little better. *01:05:58* It was not it was not better. *01:06:01* My thing was your spiral mountain in Showdowntown. *01:06:03* It's a nostalgia trip, and you're absolutely right about what you're doing there isn't is not great. *01:06:08* I do think Spiral Mountain is very ugly now. *01:06:13* I think they it's a very drab *01:06:15* And dirty, it's nothing like what it was on N64. *01:06:18* And I guess that's part of the point. *01:06:21* Like time has passed, but they've made it pretty ugly *01:06:23* But I think that the penultimate worst level is actually the Jigoseum. *01:06:26* It is an oval. *01:06:31* That one's pretty bad. *01:06:32* There is no *01:06:33* Sports is the theme, but it is just an oval. *01:06:36* Yeah. *01:06:39* There is no that's like uh we ran out of ideas for a world design, so we will make a colosseum. *01:06:40* I think it's weak. *01:06:48* How how do you how do you guys how do you guys feel about logbox 720? *01:06:50* It's not great, but it's probably top three because I I the ones that I played, that one was probably *01:06:54* My least favorite. *01:07:01* It's too vertical. *01:07:02* It is all vertical. *01:07:04* It's way too vertical, and I don't think there's any semblance of like *01:07:06* logic of how you're supposed to even go around that thing. *01:07:10* There's no flow to like how do I get up here? *01:07:13* Let's just let's let's just say this. *01:07:16* I think all of these are pretty bad. *01:07:18* If I'm going to be able to do it, I think Banjo land is kind of neat *01:07:20* Banjo land is the only level I truly walked away liking, and most of that is nostalgia. *01:07:23* I was gonna say it's total nostalgia. *01:07:30* Exact exactly. *01:07:32* I I think I will say I think Banjo Land is the best in the game. *01:07:33* Um but I also hate that it totally relies on nostalgia. *01:07:37* Like it's very much just go around to the separate parts of this *01:07:42* No, no, I like I like playing soccer on the Stonehenge thing or whatever. *01:07:46* There is one motorcycle trick thing that you can do on Banjo Land that I kind of had some fun with. *01:07:51* Yeah. *01:07:56* They had a race there, I think I like. *01:07:57* I don't think that level's good, but I it's better than the others, I will say. *01:07:59* It's uh it's the best one, I would say. *01:08:04* If you'll allow me, Logan. *01:08:06* I think Banjo Land is actually a really good point to bring up the music. *01:08:08* Go for it, yeah. *01:08:13* Because Banjo Land is the only music I really liked in this love game. *01:08:14* I thought all the music was good in this game. *01:08:18* I like all the music in it. *01:08:20* So it might be a little different for me. *01:08:34* So coming back to it's like, oh, this music's right. *01:08:35* It's Grant Kirkhope music. *01:08:38* Like this is a good idea. *01:08:39* Yeah, I mean i in that sense like banjo music is largely good, and I do not think that this score is bad. *01:08:40* Grant Kirkhope makes *01:08:46* Good soundtracks. *01:08:48* And I think that he does that here as well. *01:08:50* But it is very much more I mean you talked about it before, Mike, how this game is in some ways like trying to like *01:08:53* pay homage to the older games and I really do think that a lot of the music in this game is pulling almost too heavily from the previous soundtracks. *01:08:58* I I would I would argue that they're basically the same songs, just that they have better audio equipment now and they just There is original music in the game for sure. *01:09:08* Yeah. *01:09:18* But it's I think my Banjo Kazooie music stands out. *01:09:20* It's very front and center. *01:09:27* And sometimes that's to its detriment, I think *01:09:29* Especially in the sound design department. *01:09:32* Like some of the sounds just get annoying very quickly. *01:09:33* Um but the music was always bold and kind of *01:09:37* used unique instruments to make a unique sound. *01:09:40* And this just feels very subdued. *01:09:43* Yeah. *01:09:47* Very muted, very quiet. *01:09:48* Like there's no *01:09:50* boldness to it. *01:09:52* It is not in the forefront at all. *01:09:53* Right. *01:09:55* You made somebody play Banjo Kazuma. *01:09:59* Yeah, my my memory of that game is like you start off you're like eh *01:10:01* Like that's what happens at the like every time you play it. *01:10:07* I mean if you yeah, you could you could introduce somebody to Banja Kazooie right now and *01:10:10* 2022 and I think that would still be one of their big takeaways is the music. *01:10:14* Like it's so hard to play that game and not come away with some sort of feelings on the soundtrack. *01:10:17* Yeah, and this one is just so *01:10:22* muted. *01:10:24* But Banjo Land stands out again because the whole world leans on that whole world, not the world we live in, but the that game world. *01:10:25* relies so heavily on nostalgia that a lot of the themes shine through and I just like the way that they wove *01:10:34* all these different level themes together into one big world theme for Banjaland. *01:10:42* And I I that was really well done, I thought. *01:10:47* Yep. *01:10:50* Okay, so Banjaland we got first. *01:10:51* I think *01:10:53* Uh we'll get back to the bottom of the list in a second. *01:10:54* I think based on what we're saying here, it sounds like we think that Nutty Acres is probably like the second best. *01:10:57* It is not good, but it is not *01:11:02* Horrible. *01:11:05* There's a there's a little bit of diversity here, especially once you get a little bit into the further, like you unlock the fifth le uh uh I don't even know what they call it, fifth level or f sixth level. *01:11:19* Act. *01:11:30* Yeah, the act *01:11:30* They start making you do some different things here and you start to realize like, oh wow, there's a lot more that you can actually do here on Nutty Acres, especially compared to some of the other levels. *01:11:32* Um I I just wish it had a better gimmick is all. *01:11:43* It's just kind of whatever, you know? *01:11:46* Yeah. *01:11:48* But I don't think it's *01:11:49* Like I have like distinct issues with some of the other levels in this game. *01:11:51* This one I don't really have a problem with. *01:11:55* It's just kind of *01:11:57* It's a good first level for and it has, I think importantly, for this game, it has different types of terrain. *01:11:59* You've got the hilly, grassy plain area, you've got the beach and the water, you've got the volcano with its different steeps and slopes, plus lava. *01:12:07* And then obviously. *01:12:17* Like lines and stuff like that. *01:12:26* Yeah. *01:12:27* Yeah. *01:12:28* Like it it's got a little bit of a unique design to it, I think, as well. *01:12:28* It's it's a solid *01:12:32* intro levels for the design of this type of game. *01:12:34* So yeah, I agree with it being ranked number two. *01:12:37* Um, so then what would we say is third? *01:12:40* Because I think Spiral Mountain sucks. *01:12:43* Jigosium sucks. *01:12:45* I think I personally think Showdowntown would be next. *01:12:47* Really? *01:12:52* Yeah. *01:12:52* I think Showdowntown would be next too. *01:12:53* Not because what you're doing there is very interesting. *01:12:55* It's mostly driving to different places. *01:12:57* But I do like as you beat Grunty, you unlock more parts on your car and you get to navigate and kind of peel back more of this world and get to different places. *01:12:59* And I think that's just what's interesting. *01:13:08* My my big problems with Showdowntown is just it's too populated with characters that just run into you. *01:13:10* And don't do anything. *01:13:16* Like no one's driving. *01:13:17* Yeah. *01:13:20* I think it's a product of the of the time in a way. *01:13:20* Just because of like, you know *01:13:23* Like you said, GTA was so big at the time I mean it's big now, it's big for since three basically. *01:13:25* I mean GTA four came out in two thousand seven though, I believe. *01:13:31* Yeah. *01:13:35* So this would have been two th two th yeah. *01:13:36* Like the GTA four was all the rage at that moment. *01:13:38* So Yeah, and like having those big open worlds and stuff like that was like all the rage at that time, especially at that time, so *01:13:41* And having like a live city was cool, so I get why they did it. *01:13:49* What I don't like about it is that it's it's literally just all rhinos, basically, and then the cops. *01:13:54* So I well *01:14:01* It lacks the personality of those kind of things in a way. *01:14:03* GTA four came out April of two thousand eight, so it came out like five months before this game. *01:14:07* Okay. *01:14:12* So I mean like GTA was around beforehand. *01:14:13* Like it's not like GTA was new. *01:14:16* I just I thought that was kind of i interesting looking up that data. *01:14:18* Yeah, it was more like the open world craze, like *01:14:20* You know, you had the you had your true crimes, you had your yeah. *01:14:24* Yeah, this was definitely when open world started becoming really big. *01:14:27* But I I think I think Showdown Town would be third. *01:14:30* Okay, I'm fine with that. *01:14:38* And I do agree that once you start to unlock more of the things, there are some aspects of the town that I did enjoy ex *01:14:40* Exploring and uncovering to a degree. *01:14:47* I guess logbox 720 in the middle. *01:14:49* Again, I do not think this level is good, but I do not hate it in the way that I do Jigoseum or *01:14:51* I think it has a way cooler gimmick than Jigosium does. *01:14:57* Yeah, at least it has personality. *01:15:00* Yeah, it's got a personality to it. *01:15:02* Yeah, it's got grabbed by the ghoulies. *01:15:06* I like that it had the banjo Kazooie discs. *01:15:07* Spinning. *01:15:09* I thought that was neat. *01:15:09* Like when I saw them like, oh that's cool. *01:15:10* And then did they have any no Viva Pinata wasn't out yet, right? *01:15:12* Or was it out? *01:15:16* I think it was out. *01:15:17* Yeah. *01:15:18* Yeah, there was a Viva Pinata thing. *01:15:18* I think they had a Viva Pinata thing in there. *01:15:19* Also, they had a a weapon on there called Folgor's *01:15:21* hand or something. *01:15:26* Is that supposed to be Fulgor from Killer Instinct? *01:15:27* And is that supposed to be his hand? *01:15:31* Probably. *01:15:33* I don't know. *01:15:34* I don't know anything about Killer Instinct personally. *01:15:34* Killer Instinct is a rare game. *01:15:36* Yes. *01:15:38* Probably. *01:15:38* But do you know that *01:15:39* So I was wondering that I didn't check what his hand looked like, but I was like, is that supposed to be the Folgor? *01:15:40* But the Folgor. *01:15:46* I would assume so. *01:15:47* Logbox 720, I will say, is just so hard to get around. *01:15:49* Like yes, the whole level is definitely made for flying, but even when you are flying, there's constantly *01:15:52* something in your way in this level. *01:15:58* It is just sea above you. *01:16:00* So and you're bumping up into stuff. *01:16:01* Also it's like the first level like where you even get to unlock any sort of flying thing. *01:16:03* So you're one learning flying in this like mass like *01:16:08* Super complicated, weird, unorganized level. *01:16:13* It's just a it's just a big vertical cube box that you're stuck in with like a little different weird things going on on certain levels. *01:16:17* There's no *01:16:24* Get I mean there's a major lack of cohesion in this level, but I mean terror terrarium of terror is way worse in that regard because everything's *01:16:26* Silo significant. *01:16:34* Which I Jigosium I think has like the opposite problem where it is pretty easy to get around because it's so barren. *01:16:35* But it has a ri a pr really boring gimmick. *01:16:42* I will say I will say that I the one thing I will say in favor of Jigosium over Spiral Mountain, I I think Spiral Mountain's worse. *01:16:46* I would like to put Spiral Mountain at sixth personally rather than fifth because I think Jigosium, the one redeeming quality of it, is that there are some fun things to do. *01:16:53* I like the ramp jumping off of that. *01:17:05* It's very basic. *01:17:07* But I did try to build as fast of a car as I could for a while there and blast off that ramp. *01:17:08* There's one mission later on where you just have to get a bunch of basketballs and drop them in hoops. *01:17:13* And it's very simple uh to do. *01:17:18* I think I even got the trophy Tommy trophy for that one. *01:17:21* Uh but it's yeah, I kind of enjoyed it. *01:17:25* There's a another the Domino's one was weird, but it was also kind of unique. *01:17:28* In some ways. *01:17:33* It was unique. *01:17:34* I got excited when I saw that. *01:17:35* I was like, oh, this is gonna be so fun. *01:17:36* And then I did it and I'm like, this is the terrible. *01:17:38* Like, why did they do this? *01:17:41* I think Jigosium as a level *01:17:42* Like just the design of it sucks, but I will say the redeeming quality is when I think of some of the more memorable tasks in this game, they are tied to this level, would be my defense of it. *01:17:45* So I feel like this is the level that they kind of got into okay, I'm gonna make a comparison that might not make sense, but where they were getting into like *01:17:56* burnout like quality of stuff where you're just crashing into stuff and like it gets into that moment of like, oh it could like that was where I find out I'm like this could be like *01:18:05* Like a burnout game. *01:18:15* You could build your own stuff and you could crash into stuff and it's just like everything's flying everywhere and you're just like whatever, like crashing a car into *01:18:16* dominoes sounded like a r I'm like, oh this is gonna be fun. *01:18:25* I'm gonna jump off this giant ramp. *01:18:27* And then when I did it was like, well, it was kind of like a a wet fart kind of thing, you know. *01:18:30* The best thing to do with the domino one is just to catch explosives in in on your *01:18:35* uh car and then as a helicopter drop into the middle of them and then hit the self-destruct button and explode outward. *01:18:39* That's what I what what you need to be listening to certain songs though Logan *01:18:46* Yeah, go watch the YouTube video we attached above in our chat mic. *01:18:51* Link it down in the comments below if you want to see this guide that we used for this *01:18:55* It'll be in the show notes. *01:19:00* Uh as Max said, it's it's art from a long-forgotten era of YouTube. *01:19:01* Okay, so I'm putting that one at five because I do literally seriously think that one has some redeeming qualities. *01:19:07* Um, which means Spiral Mountain goes to six. *01:19:12* I'm sorry, Spiral Mountain, it's just the things you do on that level suck. *01:19:14* That boss fight is bar none probably the worst thing in the game. *01:19:17* So I I I really think it deserves to go that low. *01:19:21* With that in mind, if we're ranking the levels from this game then, it goes Banjalan first, uh Nuttyacre second, Showdowntown third, Logbox 720 fourth, uh Jigosium fifth, Spiral Mountain sixth. *01:19:25* And the terrarium of terror seventh. *01:19:38* So yeah, basically, Mike, you not getting the the terrarium in Spiral Mountain is just is only good. *01:19:40* You saved yourself on your congratulations. *01:19:47* Great. *01:19:50* I think we've mainly touched on everything, um, unless I am wrong. *01:19:52* Um otherwise I would like to talk about *01:19:56* What we think this game's legacy is. *01:19:59* Um Max, is there anything you wanted to talk about beforehand about the game itself? *01:20:02* Maybe before we start? *01:20:06* Not specifically, no. *01:20:08* Really, my only comments left are legacy related. *01:20:09* I can start here. *01:20:13* Um, I think because I kind of mentioned it before. *01:20:14* Um *01:20:20* When you were raging at 2 30 in the morning. *01:20:21* Yeah, this game does suck. *01:20:24* And it makes it that much more frustrating to me that this is literally the last banjo game we've ever gotten. *01:20:25* Like *01:20:30* This game sucks so bad that when people say they want a new banjo game, they say, I hope that we get here hear that banjo 3e is announced soon and people are like, oh well there is a third banjo game. *01:20:31* And it's like, no, there's not. *01:20:41* People like to just myself included like to just pretend that this does not exist in a lot of ways. *01:20:43* Like I think that is this game's legacy in some ways is that *01:20:49* Not only is the game itself just not good and not fun to play and is pretty boring, it's so bad that people like to just not even acknowledge that it's part of the larger banjo series. *01:20:53* And they still hope that we get something else in the style of the old games eventually. *01:21:05* And I think that's how I feel too. *01:21:09* I think the general *01:21:12* A lot of times I think the general public's feelings on certain things is somehow gets misconstrued over the years or gets uh *01:21:13* Like people people like the general consensus among larger audiences for certain games or movies or different pieces of media I I think can get really warped. *01:21:22* based on how the general public can talk about it, but no, I think the general public is spot on with how we all talk about this game. *01:21:31* Um it is not great in uh *01:21:39* Yeah, it bums me out that this is seriously the last thing we have gotten banjo-related in the last 15 years or so, no matter how much we keep yelling at Microsoft and Rare to do something else with the IP. *01:21:42* So Mike, your thoughts? *01:21:53* I think I again I'm kind of *01:21:57* slightly opposite of you. *01:22:01* I do think the game has redeeming qualities and I do enjoy my time with it. *01:22:03* I will play more of it. *01:22:08* I'm gonna beat it. *01:22:09* But um because I was playing it a little bit before we were *01:22:11* We were recording and I was like, Oh, this is a like a real fun like I'll turn a podcast on, I'll just do a couple challenges, call it a day. *01:22:14* And I'm I'm having fun doing that. *01:22:22* But *01:22:23* In terms of its legacy, yeah, I mean it is the you know, like the forgotten stepchild kind of thing or whatever where, you know, people don't *01:22:24* recognize it really and that's totally like it totally makes sense. *01:22:35* Um it like I said, I think it has its redeeming qualities. *01:22:40* It was made at a time I feel like rare was *01:22:44* Trying to do weird new things like you had stuff like Viva Pinata. *01:22:47* Um and they were kind of on like a a downward *01:22:51* s downward spiral kind of thing here too where like they had perfect dark zero and what did they do before was it cameo before that? *01:22:56* Yeah. *01:23:04* Right? *01:23:05* Cameo, Perfect Dark Zero. *01:23:06* Then it did Viva Pinata, which I think is a good game. *01:23:07* I I think that's a great game actually. *01:23:10* And then this, and then just continuing down from like after this, it's like *01:23:12* I mean what ha what has Rare really done sports? *01:23:17* When you look back at what Rare was doing because you like you said, like *01:23:25* They did like Perfect Dark Zero and Conquer Live and Reloaded and Viva Pinot. *01:23:28* They were doing some different things for a couple years there. *01:23:32* This game came out, there was a two-year spin where they didn't release anything, and then they came back and they were the Kinect studio. *01:23:35* Yeah. *01:23:41* So this game almost feels like it cursed rare in a sense. *01:23:42* Uh in a way, yeah. *01:23:46* I mean now they have Sea of Thieves, which again like *01:23:47* I did review that game for dual shockers, actually, and it didn't open up very well, but now it's obviously a bull-of thing, and it it it worked out, and maybe rares now on the upswing on stuff, but I don't think this game is bad, and I don't think *01:23:51* It deserves the like this is what cursed rare and all that stuff, because I don't think it's a bad game at all. *01:24:05* Like in comparison to some other studios that have come out with really bad games and totally have *01:24:12* been fine with it. *01:24:17* I mean you could look at something like No Man's Sky, like those guys were even able to, you know, make salvage something out of that garbage heap that when it first came out, which I actually liked when it *01:24:17* it first came out. *01:24:27* Anyway, but yeah, uh it's just it's very interesting that this was the game that kinda ended rare from regularly coming out with like *01:24:28* with bangers kind of. *01:24:38* I mean maybe it's not that, maybe it's cameo that actually kind of started it. *01:24:40* Or Perfect Dark Zero, actually. *01:24:43* Cameo's fine. *01:24:45* It's a l it was a launch game. *01:24:46* That's it is what it is, you know. *01:24:47* But *01:24:49* Like Perfect Dark Zero was not good and it was like one of the most, you know, s I don't know, like anticipated games from I can remember when I as an Xbox three sixty player at the time. *01:24:50* That was the thing that I think started kind of like the downhill trend thing. *01:25:02* And then they got Viva Pinata, which was like such a weird thing, but I think is a really great game. *01:25:05* And it I think is like one of the more beloved rare stuff that is even out now. *01:25:10* And then they came out with this, which is like *01:25:14* When people are looking for the a banjo Kazooie game, they're not looking for a building game. *01:25:17* They're looking for, you know, a character platformer. *01:25:23* Like and that's just what it is. *01:25:26* So it's it's really interesting to see it as like this weird game that is just kind of the last thing that Rare did until like really Sea of Thieves. *01:25:28* Killer instinct, I guess, was would be the other note of the thing they did. *01:25:39* But they but didn't they not like that was like a co-developed thing, right? *01:25:43* Because Iron Galaxy like *01:25:47* Didn't they do the brunt of it? *01:25:49* They like yeah they helped on it, but they didn't yeah s solely develop it or anything, yeah. *01:25:51* Yeah. *01:25:55* I mean Killer Instinct, great game. *01:25:55* That was actually a really good fighting game. *01:25:57* Or it turned out to be one, 'cause I think at first I wasn't really into it, but *01:25:59* But anyway, yeah. *01:26:02* Maxwell, your thoughts? *01:26:05* I think this is one of those games that it reminds stick with me here. *01:26:12* It reminds me of below. *01:26:21* That Capybara game. *01:26:24* And I reviewed that for Dual Shockers. *01:26:27* And that was a game where, and Logan was our reviews editor at the time, which I think is important context. *01:26:30* But I was reviewing that game and I got to a wall and it was like, Logan, I cannot get past like I'm done. *01:26:36* You know, I need to review this. *01:26:44* Um *01:26:46* And I I was shooting for a low score. *01:26:46* I don't remember exactly what it was to say. *01:26:48* It was a four out of ten. *01:26:50* And Logan told me to keep pushing and kind of not worry so much about the embargo or getting it out sooner or whatever. *01:26:52* He's like, keep pushing. *01:26:57* And I did, and um, I got deeper into the game and further and found the parts of it that I really enjoyed amongst the what I thought was poor design at the time. *01:26:59* And actually *01:27:09* I ended up giving it a six out of ten, and it's one of the games that still sticks with me that I think if I reviewed it again today, especially if I had reviewed it on hardware that was *01:27:10* more stable at running it because I played on a base Xbox One. *01:27:20* If I had played that on a Series X or a 1 X at the time. *01:27:23* I think I would have given that game like an 8 out of 10 or something like that. *01:27:28* And I'm not saying that nuts and bolts is an 8 out of 10, but the more I played nuts and bolts, the initial was like, this is not good. *01:27:32* Why is Banjo fat? *01:27:39* Why am I designing cars? *01:27:41* Like why this is not what I wanted. *01:27:42* But the more I played it, the more I saw the good parts in it, the the tools that they give you to build cars and design things. *01:27:44* There are nuggets of good. *01:27:52* fun game design in here. *01:27:54* The problem was the banjo was grafted onto it. *01:27:55* And I think it kind of boils down to this one point that I wrote down in my notes. *01:27:58* Is if you look at a game like Breath of the Wild or Just Cause 3, they gave you tools to engage with a world that then reacts *01:28:04* To those tools and what you do. *01:28:14* The world reacts back. *01:28:15* Nuts and bolts gives you tools, but in a world that is not reactive. *01:28:17* You're in a sandbox that doesn't *01:28:21* react and but just cause three you're flying around shooting you can you could attach uh d uh rockets to a cow and it'll fly and spin around and react and blow up in the world. *01:28:24* And Bandrew Kazooie, the world doesn't do anything the cars do, but nothing. *01:28:36* And so I think the legacy of this game was like they were *01:28:40* Close, but they missed it. *01:28:45* And one decision as far as just pushing the vehicle stuff onto you, but in a way that wasn't *01:28:46* Engaging beyond designing the vehicles, I think, is what really makes this game miss in the long run. *01:28:54* Um and then with the banjo stuff on top of it, it's just it's too *01:29:01* different from the rest of Banjo. *01:29:06* And I get that Banjo was in racing games and vehicles are a part of Banjo's history, but it's just just off enough that I think it it overshadows a lot of the good in the game. *01:29:08* You said just cause three and I was like, wait, when did just cause two come out? *01:29:19* 'Cause like that was the big That's a good point. *01:29:23* 'Cause like before that r uh *01:29:25* like what you were saying about like a a more interactive world and stuff, like really I think that's why I mean that's why GTA was so beloved, like GTA three, why that ended up being so beloved. *01:29:27* If you play GTA three now it's like *01:29:36* Whatever. *01:29:38* It's probably garbage. *01:29:38* And you're saying you don't like the remastered definitive edition version of the game? *01:29:40* Probably not. *01:29:45* Just because two came out March 23rd of 2010. *01:29:46* So two years after and before like this, it was really just like GTA games and GTA clones. *01:29:51* Like I always say true crime streets of LA. *01:29:59* That's the one that I played a lot of. *01:30:01* But Driver. *01:30:03* Like *01:30:05* Driver, like that kind of stuff. *01:30:05* And then if you look at that, like how like how much could you actually interact with those worlds and then look at this game? *01:30:07* which came out two thousand eight that allowed you to like create your own stuff into like put something that was yours into its world if that makes any sense. *01:30:15* Yes, I think the worlds are barren and there's not not really a lot of *01:30:23* liveliness to it, but it does give you the tools to like kind of interact with it at least at the time uh in like interesting ways. *01:30:28* Now *01:30:36* Going into just cause and just ca like you said just cause three, like just cause two, I remember being like this huge thing because you were able to interact with the world in such like crazy, crazy ways that were *01:30:37* not really being done at the time, like giving you the tools to do all like yeah. *01:30:51* It it it kinda changed stuff like for those kind of open world games. *01:30:56* Um especially when they started adding like the multiplayer mod stuff that was getting *01:31:00* pretty wild. *01:31:04* But uh yeah, I I mean again it's just being so disconnected from it and then going back to it's like well yeah obviously this seems like *01:31:05* garbage because we are so used to playing games that are so like you are ingrained into a world and you like feel like you're kind of *01:31:14* I'm gonna use really corny language and say like feel like that you're there and stuff like that. *01:31:23* You can actually interact with stuff. *01:31:27* Even in something like like a no man's sky, like you're able to r actually craft like the terrain you're *01:31:29* That is in front of you. *01:31:36* You can explore all these things and whatever and really make it your own. *01:31:37* Whereas like this, you're kind of just like, I built the I built the car and I could drive around in the world and whatever and all that kind of fun stuff. *01:31:40* So *01:31:47* I mean it's putting that, I guess, into perspective, but again, like I think this is like a weird thing of like rare trying to do weird stuff 'cause they've been trying to do weird stuff, like especially for those like *01:31:48* five or so years and they missed the mark one too many times and then this was the one that really kind of missed a bit and then they became a Kinect studio. *01:31:59* The last thing the last thing I want to say about this person, I know I kind of said my piece already, is yeah, I don't think this game is like this *01:32:10* Like if I was to review this, I don't think I would give it like a 3 out of 10 or a 4 out of 10. *01:32:18* Like I don't think this game is like so bad or unforgivable *01:32:22* That it is like a scent, like I joke that it cursed a rare. *01:32:28* I don't think it's so it's just a very mediocre not it's it's it's almost so it's almost more one of those instances where *01:32:32* It's worse that the game is boring, more so than it is bad. *01:32:40* And I have some legitimate issues as we've talked about over the course of the episode here. *01:32:44* So it's not just that it is a *01:32:47* boring bland game. *01:32:49* There are some serious problems here. *01:32:50* But also just moment to moment what you were doing in this game is just never engrossing or fun. *01:32:52* And so I think it is just yeah. *01:32:57* It the biggest problem with the game is that it is boring. *01:32:59* Um *01:33:02* So yeah, I don't think it's a sin against humanity or even a sin against the banjo series. *01:33:03* But when you do look back at what this franchise has been up to and you see that this is the last thing that has happened, it leaves a. *01:33:09* definite sour taste in my mouth and I wish someone would come along rare or otherwise that would fix that. *01:33:16* And I know *01:33:24* We're obviously not playing it for this season or anything, and I know they've done stuff like ukulele, which kind of tried to fill this character platformer niche or audience here in recent years. *01:33:25* Um *01:33:38* Um they did an okay job of that. *01:33:38* But yeah, I think that's largely banjo kazooing nuts and bolts. *01:33:40* What I have I have a question. *01:33:44* What would you have I mean, maybe you guys don't do this, but what what would you have given the sc like what score would you have given it now that you've completed? *01:33:46* it probably like a five or six personally. *01:33:53* Um I don't like giving scores anymore, but uh probably a five out of ten. *01:33:57* Because *01:34:03* It's like I said, like there's good in it, but it's also pretty drap. *01:34:05* It's interesting to look at the scores and stuff too back then. *01:34:10* I mean it has an average of 79, so it is *01:34:13* I I probably if if it's the same thing like this and I don't hate DN, I am I would be at like a s *01:34:17* probably for me. *01:34:26* And it's too bad the end gets worse. *01:34:28* Fun fact. *01:34:30* Uh yeah. *01:34:30* Fun fact, giant bomb gave it a uh perfect score. *01:34:31* So there you go. *01:34:34* Thanks. *01:34:35* Thanks, Brad. *01:34:36* I think that was him. *01:34:38* And I think it was him. *01:34:40* I think G four gave it a G four gave it a four out of five. *01:34:41* And they said nuts and bolts has solid has solid single player, but multiplayer has even more potential, making this Banjo Kazooie game worth a buy. *01:34:45* Uh Game Informer was eight and a half out of ten. *01:34:54* So that's what I say, like when you think about it at the time *01:34:58* like what this game was. *01:35:03* It probably was pretty wild at the time. *01:35:04* But looking at it now with all the with all the knowledge we have of all this cra like with post Minecraft, you know, like that kind of stuff, like *01:35:06* Obviously this is nothing nothing even compares to it, you know? *01:35:15* It's exasperated by the fact that, like I said, we've had literally nothing else banjo in the last 15 years. *01:35:19* Yeah. *01:35:26* So when you look back and you're like, oh, what's Banjo been up to? *01:35:26* Oh nothing. *01:35:30* This is the last game that released, and it's not really a true Banjo Kazooie game in a lot of ways. *01:35:30* Uh that sucks. *01:35:35* I mean, we really haven't gotten a true Banjo Kazooie game in twenty years. *01:35:38* So I mean, other than Sea of Thieves, we haven't really gotten another rare game like in the traditional sense. *01:35:43* since this game. *01:35:50* Yeah. *01:35:52* Really. *01:35:52* So And I I want to have a larger discussion with you at the end of this season, Max, about maybe what uh the future of Banjo can hold, but we'll we'll have that discussion. *01:35:52* In later episodes. *01:36:04* Uh, as for this episode, Michael, thank you for joining us to talk about banjo kazooing nuts and bolts. *01:36:05* Uh thanks for having me. *01:36:11* Thanks for playing this with us. *01:36:13* I thought for sure that this would be an episode where we would not be able to get a guest. *01:36:15* But uh we've gotten Michael to play nuts and bolts. *01:36:20* We got Tomas to play color splash. *01:36:23* I mean *01:36:25* We're on a roll. *01:36:27* We've gotten some people to play uh some not great games with us. *01:36:28* I'm just here to campaign the Yakuza chapter select. *01:36:32* So whenever you guys get to that, please I'll join every episode. *01:36:35* You and Ricky. *01:36:38* Yeah, both of us will just both be on each episode. *01:36:39* So yeah, uh this has been Chapter Select. *01:36:44* This is uh as a reminder, this is episode two *01:36:46* In our third season. *01:36:50* Uh, if you would like to listen to previous seasons, you can obviously go back in our podcast feed here or YouTube channel wherever you're listening or watching. *01:36:51* Uh we've got previous seasons. *01:36:59* First season is all about paper Mario, second season is all about God of War. *01:37:00* Third season here. *01:37:04* Uh we will be continuing next time with episode three. *01:37:05* That will be all about Banjo Tui. *01:37:08* And then episode four. *01:37:10* We will uh wrap things up with Banjo Kazooie Grunty's Revenge for the Game Boy Advance, baby. *01:37:12* Jesus Chrunt. *01:37:20* A good that is an episode, spoiler alert, that no guest will be joining us on. *01:37:21* So uh that'll be just me, Max, and myself. *01:37:28* But anyway, uh if you would like to keep up with the show, you can find us on all kinds of podcast services. *01:37:31* You can also uh find us on, is it the Max Frequency YouTube channel, Max? *01:37:36* Mm-hmm. *01:37:41* That's where it is on YouTube. *01:37:42* You can find the videos there that Max uploads and spends a lot of time editing. *01:37:43* Uh if you would like to subscribe or leave us a review in any of the places where you may consume the show, that would be wonderful and definitely helps us out a lot. *01:37:47* You can also hit us up on Twitter if you want. *01:37:56* I am at Moreman12. *01:37:58* Max is at Mac Max, what are you? *01:38:00* I always forget now. *01:38:03* Max Roberts143. *01:38:04* That's right. *01:38:06* I I *01:38:06* Yeah, Max Roberts 143 and Michael, is that Michael J. *01:38:07* Ruiz? *01:38:10* The Michael J. *01:38:11* Ruiz. *01:38:12* Yeah, the Michael J. *01:38:13* Ruiz. *01:38:14* Okay. *01:38:15* Yeah. *01:38:16* So you can find us on all socials. *01:38:16* And the show socials is on Twitter at chapter select. *01:38:18* That's true. *01:38:22* I forget because I don't know if I have the login for that. *01:38:23* You don't. *01:38:26* So uh *01:38:27* I will follow you this Twitter. *01:38:29* So we do have a chat. *01:38:30* Yeah, we do have a dedicated chapter select Twitter account as well. *01:38:31* Be sure to follow us there if you would like to keep up with our uploads for this season. *01:38:34* uh as we move forward. *01:38:39* Uh but yeah, until episode three when we are back talking about Banjo Tui, uh we hope that you have a good rest of your *01:38:41* day or evening or whenever you're listening to this, and we will see you back here next time. *01:38:49* Bye-bye. *01:38:53* Adios, please. *01:38:54* Chapter Select is a max frequency production. *01:38:55* This episode was research, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *01:38:58* Season three is hosted by Logan Moore and myself. *01:39:03* Season three is all about Banjo Kazooie. *01:39:06* For more on the season, go to chapterselect. *01:39:09* com forward slash season three. *01:39:11* Follow the show at Chapter Select and check out previous seasons at chapterselect. *01:39:15* com. *01:39:20* Keep recording, by the way. *01:39:21* No one in that. *01:39:23* I never stop. *01:39:26* Good. *01:39:27* Yeah. *01:39:28* Can't stop, won't stop. *01:39:28* Can't stop, won't stop. *01:39:29* I'm a content crime that GTA four is largely *01:39:31* Well it is inaccessible on modern consoles. *01:39:36* I mean you can play it on the console. *01:39:38* I haven't played it in a very long time. *01:39:43* What game *01:39:45* GTA four. *01:39:46* I'm just that game does suck. *01:39:47* I haven't played in a long time, but I just think it's interesting that such an influential game, you can't really play it on modern console hardware. *01:39:49* Not that they really treated the GTA 3 trilogy any better, apparently. *01:39:59* That's why. *01:40:05* You don't like driving your taxi around? *01:40:06* I h I hated that game. *01:40:09* I actually hated it. *01:40:11* I was so excited for it too. *01:40:13* But also, I don't know, it is weird. *01:40:15* I have such a weird history with GTA games. *01:40:16* I just I just bought GTA 5 *01:40:19* Did you? *01:40:22* Yeah, they put the new. *01:40:23* For the first time ever? *01:40:24* No, I bought it a launch for PS3 and played the campaign. *01:40:26* Yeah. *01:40:31* I never played it on PS4 and then the new the next gen version was on sale for twenty bucks, so I snagged it. *01:40:32* I have it on PC because they gave it out for free on the Epic Game Store at one point. *01:40:39* So *01:40:45* I could play it on PC, but I mean I haven't so I don't won't it's almost ten years old. *01:40:46* I I haven't touched it since. *01:40:51* I wanna I wanna play through *01:40:53* Red Dead Redemption 2 really bad. *01:40:56* I'm hoping that's the they give that game the next gen treatment. *01:40:58* And that's what I'm like waiting for, but at the same time like *01:41:02* I don't know if they're gonna give me ray tracing in Red Dead and I'll saddle up. *01:41:05* I will I will play the game. *01:41:10* Yeah. *01:41:12* It could be at 30 frames. *01:41:13* I don't care. *01:41:14* That'd be great. *01:41:14* That game is that movie quality. *01:41:15* Red Dead Redemption 2 is so special. *01:41:18* The thing is that like Red Dead 1 is like one of my favorite games of all time. *01:41:21* I did everything in that game. *01:41:27* It's one of the few games I tried *01:41:28* to platinum quote unquote. *01:41:30* I guess get all the achievements you probably get all the achievements. *01:41:32* I did most of the achievements in it. *01:41:35* And in Undead Nightmare *01:41:37* And that game is amazing. *01:41:39* I love it. *01:41:41* I miss single player rock star DLC. *01:41:42* One dead nightmare. *01:41:46* Oh, GTA 5's DLC is coming. *01:41:47* They already said that. *01:41:49* Just be patient. *01:41:50* Yeah. *01:41:52* It's on its way. *01:41:52* What do you mean? *01:41:54* What was it? *01:41:55* Lost in Dance in the Ballad of Gay Tony. *01:41:55* Like I just I miss the single player DLCs. *01:41:58* We had to choose our uh Undead Nightwear was so good. *01:42:01* Somehow our my work avatar in our Slack for the month, somebody chose favorite DLC. *01:42:04* Choose somebody from your favorite DLC. *01:42:12* I chose uh my avatar. *01:42:14* You wouldn't know this, Max, at all. *01:42:18* What would what were you going to guess? *01:42:20* I had to think about it. *01:42:22* Logan's favorite DLC is Bioshock. *01:42:24* No, it's not buried at sea. *01:42:28* The no the Minerva's dead. *01:42:30* I don't think he's played that. *01:42:34* Are you even a Bioshock fan? *01:42:37* I don't like Bioshock T that much. *01:42:39* It's Mass Effect related or I think the more likely thing is it's like The Bioshock The Bioshock Infinite DLC. *01:42:41* No. *01:42:51* Close on Fallout or Bioshock Infinite? *01:42:52* Fallout. *01:42:55* Oh, is it the Fallout 3 DLC? *01:42:56* No. *01:42:58* Is it Skyrim? *01:42:58* No. *01:42:59* The Steel Dawn or whatever. *01:43:00* What else has Bethesda done that he would smike my name? *01:43:03* Skyrim. *01:43:06* I said closer with Skyrim. *01:43:07* Oblivion? *01:43:09* Oblivion. *01:43:11* What DLC's in Oblivion? *01:43:12* Shattered Isles or whatever? *01:43:14* Shiver the Shivering Isles. *01:43:16* Yeah. *01:43:19* When the r man who rules it all, Shea Gorath. *01:43:19* That is a good DLC. *01:43:27* You get to like a weird wacky island with this man who rules it. *01:43:29* He's like a crazy person. *01:43:32* Remember when DLC was cool? *01:43:35* Yeah. *01:43:37* What was that Far Cry 3 one? *01:43:38* Blood Dragon? *01:43:39* Yeah. *01:43:41* That was good. *01:43:41* Good times. *01:43:42* That wasn't really DLC though. *01:43:43* That was like a standalone. *01:43:44* I think it was one of those that started as DLC and then turned into Yeah turned into its own game. *01:43:45* Honestly. *01:43:52* Undead Nightmare is probably but that's also I guess maybe not DLC technically. *01:43:53* Speaking of speaking of DLC, I this is kind of funny that we're talking about this because I think so I've blasted through Tui. *01:43:58* I'm done with Tui now. *01:44:04* I I've done it. *01:44:05* I've finished it. *01:44:06* Huzzah. *01:44:07* Um I'm gonna play it after the the show tonight. *01:44:08* I think the thing I am going to play now, finally *01:44:10* I think I'm gonna play the Doom DLC. *01:44:14* I think I'm going to finally play this. *01:44:16* Oh, Eternal. *01:44:18* Here's what I've decided. *01:44:19* Going to do that. *01:44:21* Before there's a part of me that should play the rest of Bloodborne. *01:44:23* I should do that. *01:44:29* Um, and then I should probably play Yakuza's four, five, and six. *01:44:31* So I can finally beat them all. *01:44:37* And then I want to play through all the Doom video games. *01:44:39* All the Doom games. *01:44:43* Yeah. *01:44:44* I own them all on multiple platforms. *01:44:45* My request is you play the first Doom on a calculator. *01:44:48* I don't own a calculator. *01:44:52* But I own a phone with a calculator. *01:44:55* I could play it on there probably *01:44:57* I'm sure you could. *01:44:59* Yeah, I have I have Doom on I think I have the first three Dooms on PS five technically, Xbox One and PC. *01:45:00* And and Switch. *01:45:09* I have another one. *01:45:10* Do you still own your PSVR? *01:45:11* I do. *01:45:14* You should play Doom 3 and VR. *01:45:15* I should play Doom 3 and VR and I should play Doom VFR. *01:45:16* Yeah. *01:45:20* All the Doom all the Dooms I will play. *01:45:21* I do want to do that. *01:45:24* I have that. *01:45:24* I bought Doom 3 VR because the apparently the physical version of that game is a GameStop exclusive. *01:45:25* Really? *01:45:31* So I'd it was one of those deals where it was like *01:45:31* It was on sale for five bucks or something and I used a coupon to get it or whatever. *01:45:36* So like I have a sealed copy of that. *01:45:40* I w maybe someday I play it, who knows? *01:45:42* But *01:45:45* Right before I went to Vegas, like literally the day of I started I played like the first level of Doom twenty sixteen. *01:45:45* I was like, wow *01:45:53* What a video game. *01:45:55* And then you missed your flight for Vegas because it was so long? *01:45:57* No, no, I didn't. *01:46:00* The first level took nearly four hours to complete. *01:46:03* That's sometimes how it feels like for Doom Eternal *01:46:06* Feels like two hours a level. *01:46:08* But uh Yeah, I've been like trying to track out which games I want to play. *01:46:11* Bloodborne I keep on thinking about though. *01:46:16* I beat the gas coin bands. *01:46:18* I'll get to those games someday. *01:46:21* That's gonna be one of our seasons, is is the souls. *01:46:22* games. *01:46:26* Call me when you want to. *01:46:27* I'm itching to play Sekiro again. *01:46:28* I want to play it so bad. *01:46:30* I keep hearing people talk about this game lately and I'm like, dang, dude *01:46:33* I kind of want to play Sekur Ring. *01:46:37* I haven't played Elden Ring, which is the dumbest part of it. *01:46:40* Here's the thing. *01:46:44* I played Elden Ring. *01:46:44* And I wanted to go back to Sekiro. *01:46:46* Like I this is the only game that makes me feel anymore. *01:46:48* Yeah. *01:46:52* Telling you games have died. *01:46:53* The next game I want to play after we finish Banjo *01:46:55* Which also, Mike, we're gonna play Conquer as well, but we haven't we're not telling anyone. *01:47:00* Nice. *01:47:06* But uh so after we sort of *01:47:06* That game's horrible. *01:47:08* I will say, oh my gosh. *01:47:10* I will say one quick thing about that. *01:47:11* Are you doing live and reloaded or are you doing the original? *01:47:13* Original. *01:47:15* Because it's in rare replay. *01:47:16* I will say one quick thing. *01:47:17* Man. *01:47:19* I was looking forward playing cro Conquer. *01:47:20* That has dipped a little bit after Tui because Save it save it, save it, save it, save it. *01:47:23* I I mean I don't think Tui's like horrible, but man, like I know *01:47:30* But just save it. *01:47:34* So anyway, after we finish all that, the next game I really want to play is Tunic. *01:47:36* Tunic you would love. *01:47:41* Yeah. *01:47:43* I never beat it and I heard about stuff and I'm like *01:47:47* This is n this is not me. *01:47:51* I am not big brain. *01:47:52* I am not big brain for this. *01:47:54* I am so pumped to play it. *01:47:56* Um I did f I did Fez without a guide. *01:47:57* And I felt like a f m a freaking brainiac after I was a mind reader after playing that game *01:48:00* Uh but I am not that guy anymore. *01:48:08* I'm not the I wanna write out pen and paper, get notepad, draw out what I need. *01:48:10* I'm not that guy anymore. *01:48:16* That's tunic is that game. *01:48:18* It's insane. *01:48:19* It is crazy. *01:48:20* I am uh I'm very much looking forward to playing that game. *01:48:22* Yeah, it's really cool. *01:48:26* It's one of the more like cooler games I guess I've played this year, but I *01:48:28* Probably will well, you know, I should just beat it. *01:48:33* I'm like more than halfway done with it. *01:48:36* I'm prob I probably have like three more hours of it left, to be honest. *01:48:38* So *01:48:43* Just get a guide, just move me through it. *01:48:45* Something new. *01:48:48* Cause I I saw what it was, what I had to do, I was like, I would have never guessed that *01:48:49* Ever. *01:48:56* I am my old thirty year old mind cannot fathom that anymore. *01:48:57* Yeah. *01:49:03* Which is why I want to play Doom where I just shoot to go forward. *01:49:05* That's it. *01:49:08* I want to play Doom and I want to play Ghost Cire. *01:49:09* Ghostwire is also a shoot to go forward game, so Ghostwire. *01:49:12* Ghostwire I want to play because I just keep hearing people say, oh, it's pretty short, and I'm like, okay. *01:49:17* It is. *01:49:22* If you were to yeah, if you mainline it, it's real short. *01:49:23* I think I beat it and I was doing I did every side mission in it, and I think I beat it in twenty something hours. *01:49:26* Yeah. *01:49:35* Maybe less, maybe eighteen hours, I beat it. *01:49:35* Doing every side quest. *01:49:39* So *01:49:41*