# Chapter Select, [[S6E3 - Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Bubba bonus. *00:00* Ba bonus content. *00:01* Uh if you could go ahead and record Peter, that would be great. *00:03* I am rolling *00:06* Thank you, sir. *00:07* Um, so we're also building out a membership for chapter select that's gonna launch when the Pokemon season launches. *00:08* Okay. *00:16* And basically since Banjo Kazooie, we have been creating longer episodes for these members. *00:17* So uh just *00:24* talking about whatever pre-show, post-show, whatever I cut in and stuff. *00:26* But then there's also supplemental content like uh some videos of *00:30* Uh playing Banjo Kazooie on the N64 for the first time was something I did. *00:34* I had Logan play Grunty. *00:38* We have our Pokemon battles. *00:40* Logan and I are battling each other in each game and recording that. *00:42* Uh Fast and Furious, we did some movie commentaries. *00:47* Uh Resident Evil will be playing different games and stuff along the way. *00:50* So we're like building this back catalog of member stuff. *00:54* to go with it. *00:58* And so part of that is just a pre and post show of just whatever, you know, whatever we're naturally talking about, but it helps to record beforehand. *00:58* Sounds good. *01:07* Sounds good. *01:08* Yeah, in case anybody wants to hear us talk about God of War Ragnarok. *01:10* One of the months from now. *01:13* Logan, one of the chapters was I swear we'll stop talking about Ragnarok. *01:15* I titled it that. *01:20* 'Cause it's obviously been on our mind a lot lately. *01:23* Um, it feels really it looks really good too. *01:27* Like on the PS5 and uh the TVs and stuff. *01:31* It's I felt like it didn't look that good at first. *01:35* Like I don't know about you guys, but like the first like area or two, I was like, I don't know if this looks *01:37* All that hot and bland and snowy and yeah. *01:42* Yeah, I think it was mainly just like the art style and like the environments you found yourself in and then *01:46* There's some later sections where I was like, okay, never mind, this game's very pretty. *01:52* I mean as of recording, we're at Ironwood right now, Max, and yeah, like that's kinda where I feel like they're starting to flex. *01:56* A little bit like there's there's style in it, but I mean it's I mean it's this is not a spoiler, but I mean eventually you go to Asgard, and Asgard's pretty choice. *02:04* Could you imagine if you didn't go to Asgard *02:15* Just they didn't well then their uh their advertising of visit all nine realms would be uh pretty deceptive. *02:18* That would be nuts. *02:27* I I almost I'm trying not to have my phone while I'm playing, so I didn't send this to you while playing, Logan, but uh *02:28* I wanted to say that they ripped off Naughty Dog yet again and put two main character the two main characters on the back of a giant creature, elephant-like some may say. *02:35* Little unsharted lost legacy vibes here running around on Yala. *02:44* Yeah. *02:48* Picking some fruit. *02:49* Have you collected the poems? *02:50* I have been, yes. *02:52* Have you noticed anything about them? *02:54* The they have paint on the front of them. *02:56* Have you noticed anything else about them? *03:00* Mm-mm. *03:02* I've been reading them. *03:03* I haven't noticed them. *03:05* And you haven't noticed them? *03:05* And you haven't noticed? *03:06* Maybe I should pay more attention, I guess. *03:08* I've no. *03:09* I haven't noticed anything. *03:10* They're all PlayStation references. *03:11* Oh are they? *03:13* They're all referencing different PlayStation games *03:15* So there's a naughty. *03:18* So they're all poems about destriction d they're all poems about various PlayStation games. *03:19* So there's like Death Stranding, Last of Us 2, Ratchet and Clank. *03:24* And there'll be the show is in there. *03:28* I think Astrobots in there as well. *03:31* That's good stuff. *03:33* But they're like all these they're all these like prose poems about different PlayStation franchises written in that *03:34* old in old timey Norse style language. *03:40* That's all right. *03:43* And then we change all the titles too. *03:43* Like for example, uh let me see. *03:45* The question is do they have Sly Cooper or does like Ghost of Tsushima do the soccer punch? *03:50* I think I think Ghost of Tsushima is in there, but uh Horizon's in there too. *03:55* Of course. *03:58* Yeah. *03:59* Like for example, but the reason you I I was waiting for you to notice this. *03:59* Uh, 'cause I was gonna see if you would message me. *04:03* Like for example, MLB the show MLB the show is called Large Society Ground Orb The Performance *04:05* That's amazing. *04:12* Okay, I see the IGN thing now. *04:13* It's like uh here's horizon, the sunrise of nothingness, her *04:15* By a warrior's head, her orange is hidden, her hair, red as blood. *04:20* Okay, okay. *04:23* Yeah, they're all there's there's 14 poems and they all reference different places. *04:24* March is silent orb. *04:28* We who remain part the second. *04:30* We who remain part the second Toolin Bane, okay. *04:33* Afterlife. *04:40* They're they're great. *04:42* Now I will have more fun with these. *04:44* That's pretty good. *04:47* That the reason I noticed it is when you pick them up, when Kratos picks them up too, the first one I noticed one that he picked up. *04:48* had the United States of America on it. *04:55* And I was like, What the heck is this? *04:57* And then I read it and I was like, is this Death Stranding? *04:59* Because I think the Death Stranding one says something about *05:03* using like piss or something is like throw piss at the ghosts and I'm like wait what? *05:06* That's pretty clever. *05:13* I like that. *05:14* That's fun. *05:14* So yeah, it's very it's very *05:15* It's very witty. *05:18* There's some good PlayStation Easter eggs in that game. *05:19* They've been doing that in a lot of the games. *05:22* Ratchet and Clank had the portal stuff or the riffs. *05:24* Astrobot, obviously. *05:28* Ever since PlayStation Studios, they're like, let everyone know that we're all here. *05:31* That big animation at the beginning. *05:37* Yeah. *05:39* Does uh one thing I wanted to do on this episode before we get going, does everybody have their teams jotted down that they use for the majority of their playthrough? *05:40* Yes. *05:49* If not. *05:49* I assume Peter did. *05:50* But Max jot yours down too. *05:52* And I know you wanted to keep it hidden. *05:54* Yeah, well no, we can talk about it in the show, but yeah, we'll fight about it. *05:56* I did want to know what we all kind of gravitated towards. *05:59* No, here. *06:02* I got DS is handy, so *06:03* I'll uh I'll just snap a picture of it. *06:07* That'll be easier. *06:10* Let me jot mine down. *06:12* I'm still not happy with my team. *06:14* I may have beat red with it, but I'm not happy with it *06:16* When you said you took an HM slave to fight red, I was like, oh man, I d I don't know about that one, sir. *06:19* You only needed one. *06:26* Well I'm actually I made a change there. *06:27* So the slave was Snorlax, because he could learn the rock climb and smash. *06:29* Mm-hmm. *06:34* Okay. *06:35* And he was like level fifty-two or something, which was close at the time to the rest of the team. *06:35* But I made some changes and then *06:40* uh grinded for a solid day. *06:43* Like all stupid amount. *06:47* Peter, have you been uh following any of the Scarlet and Violet leaks at all? *06:49* Are you one of those people who looks at *06:53* Pokemon leaks or do you think they're spoilers? *06:55* Because I've been seeing different people say, Don't show me the Pokemon, they're spoilers. *06:57* And I'm like, they used to reveal the full Pokedex before the games were out. *07:01* Like, how's that a spoiler? *07:03* I've done some. *07:05* I haven't like specifically hunted them out, but like *07:06* Social media feeds, the algorithm. *07:10* know which one I want. *07:22* Now after seeing them, I think I know. *07:23* But it's not as clear compared to past generations. *07:26* What are you gravitating towards? *07:30* What are you leaning on? *07:31* I'm probably thinking sprigatito. *07:32* I think just 'cause like the the phantom thief *07:33* Looks to it. *07:36* There's something there, I think. *07:38* I like that too. *07:40* I think I'm going with the croc, and I think Max is going with the duck. *07:40* I don't *07:43* I like the duck. *07:45* I don't like the duck. *07:47* I like the croc. *07:48* Ah, I think he looks really bad. *07:48* I think so too. *07:50* I think it looks great. *07:51* And that's my problem with the duck too. *07:52* I I don't like the duck's final *07:54* I don't think most final Pokemon starter forms are that great though, if I'm being honest. *07:57* Like I can't think of any third form other than like *08:01* going back like to early gins. *08:05* Like I'm trying to think of the last couple of things. *08:07* The Rallet line they nailed. *08:09* Ralit was very good. *08:11* Rallet was a good one. *08:12* Greninja was a good one. *08:13* I like Rillaboom recent gins. *08:14* Philip OK. *08:17* Yeah, he's who I I went with in uh Sword and Shield. *08:18* I think that was that was pretty good. *08:21* But what was the water one, Logan, in that in Sword and Shield? *08:22* I did not like him. *08:25* Oh yeah, that turned into the big like frog with the long. *08:26* The sniper. *08:30* The fox was also bad. *08:33* It was just a *08:34* larger files. *08:35* Yeah, but that's that's who I went with, I think, the first time around in X and Y. *08:37* Feneken. *08:42* I was just gonna say what were the starters in X and Y? *08:43* Uh Chessbin, Fennakin, and Froki. *08:46* Yeah *08:48* Yeah. *08:49* So that was the Greninja one, yeah. *08:50* Yeah, that was Greninja. *08:52* Chest bin was chessbin was okay. *08:54* I thought chessbin sucked. *08:56* I didn't like the final it looked like Bowser. *08:58* Yes, yes. *09:00* Chespin was good at first and then yeah, not great later. *09:01* Oh he does look like Bowser. *09:05* What? *09:07* Huh. *09:09* Yeah, that's what I'm saying. *09:10* I think most final of all forms are kind of *09:11* Crummy more often than not. *09:14* So then I've also seen like a couple of the forms. *09:15* Um like Mecha Godzilla that everybody's calling it. *09:18* Ooh, I I haven't seen that. *09:23* Uh but *09:25* It's a new form for uh Tyranitar. *09:27* Okay, I've called Mecha Godzilla. *09:31* I've I've heard about like the the past and future forms. *09:33* So that doesn't surprise me that that is a thing. *09:35* Like I've I've seen the uh *09:38* what the um Paldean whooper evolves into. *09:41* Oh yeah. *09:46* And it's interesting when like they have like the different names, right? *09:47* So I don't know. *09:49* How do you feel about the form stuff in general? *09:50* I I I Logan has a beef with I just think it's so I don't know, like black and white is one of my favorite gins because it was just a total new line of all new Pokemon, just completely different. *09:53* I feel like the forms is almost I don't want to say lazy, but *10:04* It's an interesting way. *10:08* Underwhelming? *10:09* I guess is just like, hey, let's revisit these Pokemon you've known for decades. *10:10* It's like, just give me a whole *10:14* 150 new ones, and then that's kind of what I'm looking for. *10:15* I don't know. *10:18* But I I I think uh I agree with you, but at the same time I think it's nice to play on *10:19* species that have been just ignored for so long as just standalones, right? *10:24* So the example in uh Legends Arceus of how you take Stantler and like suddenly Stantler has an evolution. *10:29* Yes. *10:38* Will we ever see it outside that? *10:39* I don't know. *10:41* Yeah, I like that stuff. *10:41* There's another one from Johto, and then I don't I don't know how how spoilery we want to get, but *10:43* Done sparse. *10:49* Having an evolution. *10:51* Yeah. *10:53* And there's spots about that. *10:53* So like, yeah. *10:56* They've been doing that stuff for a while. *10:57* I think it's more strange when they're like, Hey, ponytahs, now a psychic type. *10:58* It's like what? *11:02* And then it gets mouthy and you're trying to remember what it's like, oh that's Galarian ponytah because you have to remember it was in Sword and Shield that it had *11:03* have that different type. *11:12* So that gets mouthy, yeah. *11:13* That's the stuff that I think gets very strange is when they're changing the typings and all that. *11:15* But yeah, getting new uh evolutions for old Pokemon that have just kind of *11:19* been there for a long time. *11:24* I feel like they've been doing that going back to what, like Gen 4 or 5? *11:25* Because I remember there was a lot. *11:30* There was a lot *11:31* Actually this is something I want to talk about in this episode. *11:32* Yes. *11:35* I think I wrote down is there is a lot of Pokemon that don't evolve in the Johto decks, and I do not know why. *11:35* And they later rectified that. *11:41* But on its own it's very *11:43* Strange. *11:45* Yeah. *11:46* Yeah. *11:47* So I think yeah, to that point, like if if maybe they renamed it to a different species name as they do for some of like these new evolutions, like I think that's better than to say *11:47* Oh, it's Meowth, and then there's Galarian Meowth, and there's Alolan Meowth, but Galarian Meowth evolves into Berserker, and it's like, what the it it gets to be much. *11:57* Which version are you getting? *12:09* Scarlet or violet? *12:11* Violet. *12:12* Yeah. *12:13* Doing violet. *12:13* Why is no one else getting scarlet? *12:14* I will say, I now that I saw the future in past forms or whatever, and all the I think the future ones are on purple. *12:18* Future are are purple, yeah. *12:25* Yep, yep. *12:27* That makes me want to get that. *12:27* That's where your mechanzilla is. *12:29* Yes, that's exactly what that's exactly what the problem is. *12:31* Cause I would like Mecha Godzilla Tyranitar. *12:35* Um *12:38* I don't know. *12:39* I'm excited I'm I'm looking forward to that game. *12:40* I hope it's good. *12:42* I don't I don't know. *12:43* I liked I like Sword and Shield though. *12:45* I thought Sword and Shield was actually pretty good. *12:48* So I think this looks like it could improve on a lot of those things in Sword and Shield. *12:49* Yeah, I think it's it's like basically a ballooning of the wild area. *12:55* I think the let's go kind of auto battling stuff seems neat. *12:57* Yeah. *13:01* Um to be able to see a shiny on the open world is a nice touch. *13:02* Bringing that over from Legends. *13:06* Yes. *13:09* Uh so I, you know, things like that. *13:10* It'll be *13:12* I I I think the the thing I've heard of how the open world doesn't scale with you, they talk about to tackle any gym in any order, but if *13:13* they don't scale with you then that feels like it's kind of defeating the point. *13:23* So I feel like that's that's a thing that happens in this game. *13:28* So sure is. *13:32* Yeah *13:34* So Yeah. *13:36* I'm looking forward to it. *13:39* This'll be my first Pokemon game since at launch. *13:40* I think since ek *13:45* Other than Arceus. *13:47* Yeah, I got that, yeah. *13:48* So Legends I got at launch and played and had a ton of fun with that. *13:50* That game super fun. *13:54* Yeah. *13:57* So I'm excited to see what they bring from that into Scarlet and Violet. *13:57* And Logan hasn't played Legends yet, so yeah, I need to get around to it at some point. *14:01* I actually think this will actually be my first Pokemon it launched since *14:06* X and Y. *14:11* Sun and Moon I I got Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire and I just never played it and then I took that back. *14:13* Sun and Moon I got and I didn't like *14:19* So I just never finished. *14:21* And Sword and Shield that we played earlier this year for the first time. *14:24* So I've skipped the last couple gen jumps. *14:27* So this will be *14:31* I'm looking forward to different. *14:33* Yeah, they they've done some nice modernizations, but yeah, we'll uh we'll we'll see like when yeah when we get into playing the new ones and w what do you like, what do you don't like. *14:34* Yeah *14:45* Domino's is sending me a thing like hey d today you can get a half off pizza. *14:46* I have that free personal pe pan pizza from Shredder's Revenge on the shelf over there. *14:54* Oh, from Pizza Hut? *15:00* Yeah, I gotta get that guy to take the coupon out. *15:02* They get out of personal pan pizza. *15:05* Yeah, heck yeah. *15:08* Turtle teenamun and turtle pizza. *15:09* Abby does like that. *15:12* What do you think of that soundtrack? *15:13* I haven't played I haven't played yet. *15:15* Uh it just came okay. *15:16* The game just came a couple of weeks ago and I just haven't had a chance to sit down and play with *15:18* Pokemon, Resident Evil, and now G. *15:24* I was gonna say Max's great s uh gaming sin is that whenever we do these seasons, he can't ever pull himself away from the season. *15:27* To play anything else. *15:35* Yeah. *15:36* To play anything else. *15:36* He's like, I'm only playing Resident Evil games. *15:37* Yeah. *15:41* Yeah. *15:41* The games I've played this year, it's probably the most games I've completed in a f in a bit. *15:42* in one year, but they're also pretty much only games we've done for the show. *15:49* Right. *15:54* There's some standout *15:55* Some in there. *15:57* Like I haven't even played part the part one remake yet. *15:57* Like I just haven't had I know. *16:00* I'm terrible. *16:02* I'm a fake fan. *16:03* I mean I mean I think I'm even waiting for the price drop when it comes out with the show. *16:04* Which I totally respect. *16:08* It's it's a lot of money for *16:10* you know, just the the PS5 pretty version of it, but God of War. *16:13* Yes. *16:16* I am cu I am I am curious. *16:18* I know this is *16:20* uh kind of similar but different hit but has God of War been hitting you in any ways, Max, since you're a daddy now? *16:21* I told you the Calliope line messed me up. *16:27* Sorry, Peter. *16:31* I didn't mean to say sorry. *16:31* I I I figured something was if they want to kind of she is mentioned later. *16:33* Uh coming up that messed me up and then stuffed *16:38* Peter is at some of the things he's saying, I'm like, oh god, I get it now. *16:42* I'm like, oh no. *16:47* So yeah. *16:49* Well, it's also um *16:51* Uh hmm. *16:55* I don't want to say. *16:57* There's just some there's some parenting stuff in this game that I'm starting to connect with. *16:58* in a way I wouldn't have before. *17:03* Or that, you know, you understand it, but it's different when you feel it. *17:05* I'm like, oh gosh, kiddos. *17:08* Mm-hmm. *17:12* I get that. *17:12* Yeah. *17:13* I'll have to re if I ever have kids, I'll have to replay these games and weep as I do or something. *17:14* Yeah, it's interesting. *17:21* It's an interesting feel, especially being kind of the first *17:22* I guess dad game since being a dad. *17:26* There's a lot of dad games, I guess, nowadays, but the timing hits right though. *17:29* It does. *17:34* We'll see how it all ends. *17:35* How the game ends. *17:37* So we'll be *17:38* That'll be something. *17:39* So uh yeah, I'm enjoying it. *17:41* Everybody dies, it's Ragnarok. *17:44* Yeah. *17:46* Can fate be averted? *17:47* Everyone's dead. *17:49* God of War 2 seems to th s say you can change fate. *17:50* So we'll see if uh being like Mark Ruffalo in that uh interview with uh Infinity Words, like you guys see the next one, uh everybody dies. *17:54* That's so funny in retrospect. *18:08* Did either either of you see Black Panther? *18:10* I didn't even know it was out this week. *18:13* I knew it was coming, but it's like I I'm so I've several shows behind on the the Disney Plus. *18:15* I'm Some. *18:20* I think the only one I haven't finished is Miss Marvel. *18:22* I think we have a couple left. *18:27* We watched She Hulk. *18:28* That was easy because it was short *18:30* But I since I knew I wasn't seeing Black Panther at opening, I forgot when opening was. *18:33* This is the first Marvel movie I haven't seen opening weekend since Avengers 1. *18:39* It feels weird. *18:43* Yes. *18:45* So *18:46* No, I don't even care. *18:47* I I didn't even realize it was out this I work for a comic site and I it took me until like Thursday of this week to be like somebody was like, I'm going to see Black Panther tonight. *18:48* I was like, oh, that's out? *18:55* We might see it *18:58* While we're up in Indiana, we might leave the kid with my parents for a couple of three hours. *19:00* Feels like that's you if I'm up there. *19:05* I don't live in I also move Peter. *19:08* I don't know if I've advertised now. *19:10* Yeah. *19:14* Wow. *19:15* Okay. *19:15* Nice. *19:16* Yeah. *19:16* Like around what area? *19:17* Nashville. *19:19* Nice. *19:20* That's a good area. *19:20* Suburb. *19:21* uh east of Nashville. *19:22* So I moved like a month ago. *19:24* I don't even think I've advertised that on like socials or anything. *19:31* Like, oh hey, I moved. *19:33* I mean, if you're still just doing, you know, like remote stuff, I guess that's one of the things where it like it it doesn't necessarily matter where you're at. *19:35* We've actually got an office here, so that's one little wrinkle of why I moved here. *19:44* Okay. *19:48* Okay. *19:48* But wasn't the sole one. *19:48* I think I just kind of wanted to *19:50* get out of Indy area, go somewhere else. *19:52* So even for for Stellantis PR, it's been interesting to see for those in the communications department that I'm in, those that *19:54* Can move, have. *20:05* And it's just super interesting to see. *20:07* Like I guess you can still do your job if you're connected to a laptop. *20:09* I can't. *20:12* I gotta be, you know, local to events, but it's just interesting to see in this *20:13* Post pandemic, whatever you want to call it. *20:18* I think I think it's a silver lining, you know. *20:21* I love it. *20:24* I love it. *20:25* It's great. *20:26* Yeah, for sure. *20:26* I that was one of the reasons I left Disney was they were not willing to let me not come into the office 'cause *20:28* We live like an a we live an hour away from Disney, so that's two hours a day, ten hours a week, hundreds of dollars in gas and tolls. *20:36* Yeah. *20:45* And I was just like, I f we clu we've been able to do the job from home for two years. *20:46* When I need to be on site is limited and it's always planned ahead of time. *20:52* Rarely is there spontaneity of *20:56* Go here, do this now. *20:58* Uh but they weren't willing to move on that point, and so that was part of why *21:00* I left. *21:06* And so I missed this. *21:06* I'm sorry, pre-show. *21:07* Like I'm I'm catching up. *21:08* So what are you doing now? *21:11* I do the same thing just now for a military subcontractor. *21:12* Gotcha. *21:15* Gotcha. *21:16* So uh engineering and computer simulations or ECS. *21:17* And they so they do military subcontract stuff. *21:21* They do a lot of VR things actually, which is pretty cool. *21:25* Um *21:29* I haven't been I'm not on one of those projects. *21:29* I'm on a project called Cactus. *21:32* It's unclassified, so everyone you can anyone can look this up, I guess. *21:35* But it's like a marine training simulator environment thing. *21:39* So I do technical documentation for it. *21:43* So the same type of work just for more money and way closer to home. *21:45* So *21:49* Don't you work so our our my joke about his job is that he says he has to do stuff with DARPA sometimes, and so I just always say he works for Donald Anderson. *21:50* For Donald Anderson, yeah. *21:58* I'm here to save you. *22:01* You're the DARPA chief, Donald Anderson, right? *22:03* You here to save me, huh? *22:06* Whenever that like you never hear of that organization aside from *22:08* Yeah. *22:15* So he's so he's always like, oh I had a busy day at work and how's the hell Anderson doing? *22:16* The Darpache. *22:20* How's uh what's his Sigant is his name in Middle Gear Side? *22:21* That's right. *22:26* Yeah. *22:26* Meanwhile, I'm I'm still *22:28* shooting videos of cars and it's just interesting to see like how they're uh adapting and battery electrics and hybrids and yeah. *22:30* Some of the stuff you take pictures and video of is *22:38* Amazing Peter. *22:41* I when you whenever you share it, I always look at it and it's it's bonkers man. *22:42* I'm in a pretty lucky *22:47* Spot. *22:48* Yeah. *22:49* I always see the commercials and stuff like that, and I just guess I never for some reason think like, oh, people shoot these and do that sort of stuff. *22:49* And then you're like, hey, we did this, and I see it. *22:56* I'm like, wow, that's a very cool job to have. *22:58* We've rarely had our stuff make it to TV commercials, but there was one year several years ago where like it was a Jeep Cherokee commercial and uh we were *23:02* I think we shared that. *23:12* Yeah, like we shot it up in uh like the North Carolina mountains, and it turns out, yeah, they just used all that and then it aired all over March Madness, and it was that was that was neat. *23:13* But *23:23* More often than not, like bigger companies that pay bigger bucks and have bigger crews and all that do the actual commercials and stuff. *23:24* But like it's even still like *23:31* working on like the top secret projects and go yeah, you go to picturesque locations like *23:33* When a a a memory came up on Facebook and it's like, hey, remember when you went to Zion National Park? *23:42* And it's like, yeah, that sure was something, huh? *23:48* Mm-hmm. *23:51* So it's it's a very cool job. *23:52* From the outside at least it seems very cool. *23:55* Inside. *23:57* I'm I'm very lucky. *23:58* It's a good gig. *23:59* Alright, are you guys ready to roll and talk about gold and silver and not crystals? *24:01* Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series exploring its evolution design and legacy. *24:12* For this season we are covering the Pokemon franchise. *24:19* My name is Max Robertson. *24:23* I am joined, as always, by Logan Moore. *24:24* Hi Logan. *24:26* Don't get better than this, Max. *24:27* At least that's what Pokemon fans would have you believe. *24:29* This is the peak right here. *24:32* This is top tier Pokemon. *24:34* It's all downhill from here is what you're saying. *24:35* Uh sort of. *24:38* You still haven't experienced the trumpets of Gen 3 of Ruby and Sapphire. *24:40* That is maybe the peak. *24:44* Does it go does it is that how it goes? *24:48* Yeah, it sounds like uh it sounds like the uh trumpet sa that plays in the uh heat miser, it's before the heat miser enters the room in the free in the cold miser or whatever his name is from the Christmas thing. *24:50* Do you s smell? *25:02* Smell the ham. *25:04* We'll have to clip this whole s the this whole part out because people would be like, what are they talking about? *25:08* Smell the ham. *25:11* It is almost ham season. *25:13* It is almost the ham time. *25:15* We're two weeks from ham time, baby. *25:16* Just as a reminder for you listeners, we now have a Chapter Select membership. *25:19* You can find out more at chapterselect. *25:23* com forward slash join *25:25* We've got content, bonus content going all the way back to season three, but for season six here with Pokemon, we've got battles between Logan and myself. *25:26* uh building teams and all sorts of stuff. *25:35* So if you would like to see Logan and I fight each other, you know, you can check that out by going to chapters like com forward slash join. *25:37* Yeah, please come join. *25:45* We've got a ton of great bonus content that we've been stashing away for months and months and months upon end. *25:46* It'd be great if you guys come check that all out. *25:51* If not, I hope you enjoy the core episode. *25:54* And today's episode again is about our Golden Soul Silver. *25:56* We've got a guest on the show that we're going to bring in here in a moment to talk about everything related to the game. *26:00* But before we do, Max. *26:05* Let's run everything down about this game or slash games because we are going to talk about the originals a little bit here as well. *26:06* Pokemon Gold and Silver. *26:14* Heart and Gold and Soul Silver as well. *26:15* They were developed by Game Freak. *26:17* They originally released on the Game Boy Color and the Nintendo DS. *26:19* The Game Boy versions launched on October 15th, 2000, and Heart, Gold, and Soul Silver came to Nintendo DS on March 14th, 2010. *26:23* The game director of the original was Satoshi Tajiri. *26:32* The Heart Gold and Soul Silver remake was done by *26:37* Shigeki Morimoto, the producers on the game were Takihiro Izushi, Takahashi Kawaguchi, and Sunikazu Ishihara *26:40* For the remake, the producers were Jinichi Masuda Masuda. *26:50* I screwed up the guy's name who's the one you're supposed to know. *26:55* Supposed to know. *26:58* Junichi Masuda. *26:59* uh Shusaku Igami, Hitoshi Yamagami, and Hirowaki Suru *27:01* We're almost done with the Japanese names. *27:09* I'm saying this for myself. *27:12* I I always feel so bad with this because I feel like I'm butchering these people's names. *27:13* Uh the music was done in the original by Junichi Masuda, Go Ichinose, and Morikazu Eoki. *27:17* In the remake it was once again done by Go Ichinose, Shoda Kagayami, Hitomi Sado, Junichi Masuda, and Takudo Kitsuda. *27:23* I say you did a great job. *27:35* Uh Metacritic average for Heart Gold and Soul Silver sat at an 87 *27:38* out of 100. *27:43* Maxi also added a note here that IGN gave the original games a 10 out of 10. *27:45* So these are two of the higher ranked Pokemon games ever, I believe. *27:50* Which kind of is in line with what I said before about these uh being top tier. *27:56* This is maybe the peak of Pokemon, in my opinion. *28:01* And w we've been telling you that for quite a long time. *28:04* And let's see if our guest, Peter Spasia, happens to agree with that. *28:07* Peter, we have not podcasted in a long time. *28:10* It's good to talk to you again. *28:13* It's about time. *28:14* Logan, Max, thank you for having me. *28:16* Oh, thanks for coming, Peter. *28:18* Of course, we did uh when Max and I first started putting this Pokemon season together, I think you were definitely near the top of our list of people who were like, oh well, we gotta get Peter on an episode. *28:20* He's *28:30* Mr. *28:30* Pokemon. *28:31* I feel like we've talked about Pokemon with you on podcasts of some sort in the past. *28:31* When it's been, you know, fifteen years of podcasts and things and then *28:36* At one point I did a weird YouTube show about the Pokemon anime. *28:42* So like Pokemon's always been a thing at some point. *28:47* So yeah. *28:50* You've totally just unlocked. *28:51* Memories. *28:53* It was called wasn't it called WTF Pokemon or something? *28:54* It sure was, yes. *28:57* Oh my gosh, my mind has totally been taken back. *28:58* to the show me your news days when you were doing that sho Oh my gosh. *29:01* Yeah, so so Pokemon's been uh you know a long, long history and I appreciate the consideration and *29:06* Give me the pick. *29:13* One of my favorite games of all time is Pokemon Heart Gold Soul Silver. *29:15* So I feel like that was the one I wanted to pick and I appreciate that it was available *29:19* For sure. *29:23* Well, I mean that's a good jump in on point to our discussion here. *29:24* I guess just what was your history with I mean we're doing the game we've s specifically have played here is obviously hard gold and soul silver, but *29:27* Talk to us about your history with the original games as well and then these remakes and uh obviously one of your favorite games ever, like you just said. *29:35* So I don't know, where where were you at when these games first came out? *29:42* When these games first came out, I think it's it's important to step back a little bit. *29:46* You know, with the original red and blue that was nineteen ninety-eight in North America and uh the story I always *29:50* Tell so apologies if anyone's ever heard it before, but I mean the whole thing is Ash Ketchum is ten years old *29:57* And young Peter in 1998 was ten years old. *30:05* So I mean right on the money, like hit me right there. *30:08* And so going forward, uh Gold and Silver was an anticipated launch. *30:12* As much as it can be, right? *30:17* I I feel like a video game launch in 2000 is very, very different than what we're used to with *30:19* social media and just a constant bombardment of pre-launch hype. *30:28* It's very, very different. *30:31* But I remember anticipating that at launch and and getting that I played silver. *30:33* uh, you know, played the heck out of that for sure. *30:38* Um even Crystal after that and to even just be like, oh yeah, you *30:42* have the option to play as a girl. *30:47* They have the animated sprites. *30:49* That was a a big deal, right, for for Crystal. *30:51* And for it to be Game Boy Color specific for that one also. *30:54* The little bump. *30:59* Uh the the with the convex on the Game Boy color cards as opposed to the concave for Game Boy. *31:00* So I you know dating myself plenty, I'm sure, but uh definitely uh you know really appreciated those games *31:06* Uh I feel like, you know, throughout the years since then had a a couple weird times where it's like, okay, I'd maybe I play Ruby and Sapphire several months after that. *31:13* But getting to Heart, Gold, and Soul Silver, it was the end of my undergraduate time at the University of Michigan. *31:23* And I just I remember *31:32* Uh like a ROM went online of the Japanese version because of course that was a time where, you know, that version of the game came out before it got all translated by a difference of like *31:35* six months, I think. *31:47* So I remember playing a fan translated, patched, cracked, what have you, uh, you know, ROM of *31:50* Heart Gold, uh, you know, when pretty much when that came out, uh enjoyed that and then just you know, once Soul Silver came out, that was my you know i personal game of choice that I wanted to go with. *31:58* And uh yeah, that's my favorite in the Pokemon series. *32:11* Played them all. *32:16* Uh enjoyed them all to some extent, but I feel like *32:17* There is something special to Gold and Silver with how they expand that world and the brilliance of *32:21* Satoru Iwada to help with that original game, right? *32:30* Uh the the programming wizardry there. *32:34* To only expand on that with uh Generation 4 is *32:36* I think a great generation, huge improvements with the uh you know, the physical and special attacks and make that more realistic and how they calculate the math there. *32:39* Uh so a lot of great improvements, still a slow *32:49* generation, just a slow speed of those those health bars going down. *32:53* But uh overall, that's that's why it's my favorite. *32:58* Like it brings me back to *33:02* You know, my youth. *33:04* There is something to Fire Red Leaf Green, which is a great remix for sure, but hardcore SoulSilver is where it's at, and that's where it's it's very fondly remembered for me *33:06* Max, uh we'll come to you. *33:17* So we already'll come to you last because I note you have no real history with this game, so we can use it to jump on and *33:19* talk about the game itself here. *33:26* I did want to say so you were a little older than me when this game came out in 2000, Peter, but I still remember the lead up to Gold and Silver because it red or yeah, red and blue kind of came out of nowhere. *33:27* And I all I was also in a Pokemaniac in 1999 probably. *33:40* I think I got into it around when yellow came out. *33:45* Dude, I think all you gotta say is Pika blue *33:48* Yes. *33:50* Like the no one who is like listening in in Gen Z today is gonna know what that is, but that was everything back then. *33:51* Yeah, I got into it, I think *34:00* ninety-nine would been when I got into Pokemon and I had started consuming the show and the games and but I specific I think Gold and Silver is one of the first instances in which I ever remember a game *34:03* coming out and like I need to get this the first day it has released and I was calling store I was getting my mom to call stores. *34:16* Hi, when is this game out? *34:23* I remember seeing the commercials. *34:24* Uh I actually looked up the commercials for the old Gold and Silver before we did this and I don't know if you remember like the poke the animated Pokemon walking through like realistic environments and stuff like that. *34:26* I remember seeing those commercials like a good like six weeks before the game came out and I was like *34:35* Losing my mind like, oh my gosh, it's almost a year though, the new Pokemon. *34:39* Uh in a pre-social media era, like I I don't even think Pokemon Fever has ever been matched by anything else since. *34:43* Like it it's *34:50* It was a phenomenon in the truest sense of the word. *34:51* Yeah. *34:53* Yes, absolutely. *34:54* I I don't ever remember another Pokemon launch like that either, because I didn't have a GBA when *34:55* Ruby and Sapphire came out. *35:01* So like I needed uh you know, I was a four kid, so I d I couldn't go get the new hardware, but I did have the Game Boy color, so I was ready and ready to go with gold and silver. *35:02* And I distinctly remember that game launch and my parents picked me up after I wanna say like *35:10* They picked me up after school one day and my dad told me to reach into the backside of the uh of the seat in front of me because there's a little holder in there and I reached in and pulled out silver and I was like, oh my gosh, like they got it before *35:16* before they came to pick me up for school and I was like freaking out. *35:28* I think I showed my teacher because I was right there in the pickup line. *35:30* I was like, look what do I got? *35:34* Oh look. *35:35* So like I remember that whole I remember everything around that *35:36* Uh speaking of gold, uh heart gold and soul silver though, I I don't there's nothing I really remember with that other than just like, oh, this is a remake of the games I like a lot, and I got it. *35:40* And uh still clearly very good. *35:50* Probably one of my favorite entries in the series. *35:53* I will say though, this this playthrough has changed some of my thoughts on it in a lot of ways. *35:55* And uh it has not *36:02* aged all that gracefully. *36:04* There are some very big quality of life improvements that have come about with Pokemon over the past *36:06* decade, which I don't think I appreciated as much until I we played this game. *36:13* And I think moving forward, so we f played *36:18* Fire red and leaf green already, Max. *36:21* This will be the oldest game in the series that we have play that we'll have played the rest of the year because I think everything moving forward is *36:23* 3 DS and up. *36:30* So coming to this is the only actual DS game, or I I guess black and white, but those are newer compared to this as well. *36:32* Yes. *36:39* So they have done some *36:39* Very good mechanical tweaks and upgrades and even beyond that. *36:42* There's like a lot of little niggles that I have with this game that we can maybe touch on as we go on throughout this episode. *36:46* I'm curious how Max thinks about this though, because he has never played this game before, and this has always been heralded as the best one, and I would I still would say this is *36:53* Perhaps the best one, like even with my complaints. *37:03* Yeah, because with a lot of the newer improvements, the newer ones also have big detractions. *37:06* But I guess *37:13* I I agree with you in that we'll get to talking about how like, oh, this was eye-opening in quite a few ways. *37:13* Uh but as a whole, I I don't think you can go wrong like recommending this one to someone as like, hey, maybe have this be one of your first *37:19* Pokemon. *37:27* Maybe fire red leaf green, probably a better one for um even like you know new to JRPGs, right? *37:28* But this is a really good, I think, entry point. *37:34* I've always heard of this as the best Pokemon game ever, bar none. *37:37* I knew about the whole uh canto add-on at the end, so it's like that's the revelation that you could go to the first game. *37:41* all over again, get those eight gym badges, and then fight red or yourself, you know, who you were, fight them at the mountaintop. *37:49* Like I've always heard of that, but never experienced it until now. *37:57* And so there was a lot of expectation coming into this game. *38:00* But I do have some history with this game, apparently. *38:04* Having Peter on the show, doing all the stuff, I decided to do a little bit of research into some old stuff that I used to do. *38:08* And the first time Peter and I ever spoke was actually back in 2009. *38:16* uh in May of 2009, which would have been right before the Japanese release in September of that year, and then March 2010's when it came out here in the States. *38:21* And wouldn't you know it, if not on the podcast, But Our Princess is in another castle, we talked about this, and I actually I pulled up a couple of clips to my own. *38:32* uh embarrassment feature. *38:43* You're gonna make us listen to thirteen year old Max? *38:46* Hi everyone, future Max here. *38:51* I know you were expecting to hear pre-pubescent Max's voice talking about Pokemon Heart Gold and Soul Silver. *38:54* Uh just wanted to issue a slight correction. *39:00* Uh the first clip you're gonna hear is actually from the second episode of my first podcast ever, which was recorded in *39:02* uh it looks like June of two thousand and eight. *39:10* We wouldn't have Peter on the show until two thousand and nine, so a year later. *39:12* So me talking about *39:17* the myth or the rumor of heart gold and soul silver is from two thousand eight. *39:19* Peter wasn't on this particular episode, so here's the clip. *39:23* Really? *39:27* Sigma Gold Silver DS *39:28* This myth has been floating around for ages and I just stumbled across it. *39:30* Um few images of cover artwork. *39:35* Um I've actually compared 'em with my diamond artwork. *39:37* They're very realistic. *39:40* Very good job if this is all fake. *39:42* I I don't know. *39:45* These are I guess Cerebi, I was big so I had just come back into Pokemon with Diamond and Pearl. *39:47* I'd just been brought back into the fold. *39:54* and I guess I was chewing everything up. *39:56* I had platinum and the they were probably rumors beforehand, o undoubtedly. *39:58* An obvious next step would have been to remake gold and silver, but I had apparently recently had found out about this in two thousand nine. *40:04* I actually never ended up getting the game. *40:11* I actually didn't buy another Pokemon game until Pokemon X. *40:13* So I don't know what happened, like what deterred me from *40:17* No money probably maybe, but I mean I was still able to get other like I remember getting Phantom Hourglass, which I think was a little bit *40:23* before that. *40:33* May have been after. *40:33* I think before though, because I was in St. *40:34* John when that came out. *40:37* It I don't know. *40:39* I don't know why I didn't get it. *40:40* I didn't get black. *40:41* I didn't get black two or white two or any of those. *40:42* Uh I didn't come back until X. *40:45* I do remember my friends having Heart Gold and Soul Silver and having like the poker walkers on their hips, taking them to school, walking around, that element to the game. *40:46* But for some reason I never grabbed it. *40:54* I will say, I don't know how the two of you played it this time around. *40:57* Coming into this season, when I didn't own any of these DS games. *41:01* I was a bit nervous that I wouldn't be able to afford it, and so I looked into emulation and stuff. *41:05* I I did get all of the games physically, but uh I started on my 3DS and then just found my 3DS Excel was a bit big, even though I uh downscaled it to the *41:09* the one to one pixel size, I actually ended up digging up my my wife's Pokemon DS Lite, which is in immaculate condition. *41:19* It's this pink chrome kind of DS. *41:27* And *41:30* And that brings me to another clip that Peter has haunted me for years. *41:31* It's it's one quote I've always remembered from the episode. *41:36* I could probably *41:38* Almost just you know, spoken out by default. *41:41* Yeah, it's it's pretty uh here's this one. *41:44* I really don't think it'd be smart to walk in there with a DS to play a Pokemon game with college. *41:47* Oh come on. *41:54* I have a pink DS and I'd totally do that. *41:56* Okay. *41:59* Well, yeah, I chicken. *42:00* There's no shame in a pink DS. *42:04* There is no shame in a pink DS. *42:06* Honestly *42:08* Look at that ro is the rose gold one, right? *42:09* The one that yeah that one looks so nice. *42:11* There's there's I had a it wasn't any metallic hue or anything like that. *42:14* It was just it was pink as pink can be. *42:20* I remember that. *42:23* And yeah, you just gotta own it. *42:24* I well, I owned it now because I took this thing everywhere and played it. *42:27* And people were like, what? *42:30* What is that? *42:32* Some kids who are way are clear like younger than me in high school, they're like, is that a TS? *42:33* Oh my gosh, how old? *42:37* I'm like, oh no. *42:39* And then I crumble into dust. *42:40* A week ago I had to travel and I brought my DS with me on the plane and I put I of course I had to unload everything when I was going through TSA and I unloaded my switch and I unloaded my DS and the TSA person knew what the switch was and I said, What is this? *42:43* And I said, Oh, it's a DS and they're like *42:56* What? *42:58* They were very confused why I had a DS and a switch both on me and I put them both in the bin. *42:59* So I got some looks for for that one as well, Max. *43:04* Max, I think you're also lucky that rose gold's like in these days. *43:08* It definitely is in these days for sure. *43:11* But I I remember you always saying you had a pink DS and the Yes. *43:14* I listening to that episode was actually really rough. *43:18* I so quite I'm amazed that you and I stayed friends after that. *43:21* I was very *43:25* Very uh full of it. *43:27* I was very cocky and mean. *43:28* I was a terrible kid. *43:30* But uh I always remembered that, so I thought it was fun to be able to pull that clip back up. *43:32* Absolutely. *43:37* Well thank you for that. *43:38* Yeah *43:39* But that's kind of it for me and gold and silver and my history with it. *43:39* So what's your thought what's your thoughts on it? *43:44* I gotta hear this then. *43:46* So you've heard it's the best one. *43:47* Me and Peter still think it's great. *43:48* I'm gonna say that. *43:50* Yeah, you had all this setup. *43:51* I did. *43:52* It's *43:53* It's a good game, but it's a hard game to play as an adult in twenty twenty-two. *43:54* And I think that's my biggest *43:59* th is my time in life where I am. *44:03* I'm just a I'm a d a twenty-eight year old adult man with a job and I just *44:07* The grind in this game is so time consuming and I just don't have endless time to just pour into *44:12* Learning the world and the schedules and talking about it with a bunch of people and just *44:23* I imagine this as a schoolyard game was incredible. *44:30* It's like, if you go here at this time, you know, this gym trainer's in the Cerulean department store and you can get their phone number and this is how you battle them and just learning and doing and reading online *44:32* But as an adult, it's like I don't have time for this. *44:43* I need to level up. *44:47* It's very difficult in that way. *44:48* But *44:51* The payoffs in this game, the milestones, the Elite Four, twice, um, uh the the um *44:52* I want to say origami. *45:03* It's not origami. *45:05* They have kimonos. *45:06* Kimonos. *45:07* Kimono girls. *45:09* That battle. *45:10* Getting Ho-O in my case instead of Lugia. *45:11* And then your rival throughout the whole journey, Team Rocket, all these have great payoffs that lead into the ultimate hype payoff of Fighting Red at the top of Mount Silver. *45:14* And it's awesome. *45:26* So it's this game that I'm I'm pushing and pulling with. *45:28* It's like, get out of the way game, let me just play you, but also *45:31* Wow, does it feel good to overcome the challenges of this game? *45:35* And so it's interesting. *45:40* It's definitely *45:43* A piece in time and definitely a game for I think a better game for people to have more time. *45:45* So I I would love a remake. *45:52* On the TV. *45:54* I would l something that I could play on the TV at least. *45:56* Yeah. *45:59* Something a bit more sit down and get into the zone. *45:59* I feel like today with phones and everything being portable now *46:03* Instead of just a dedicated handheld, I found myself way more distracted playing a game on the DS. *46:08* I'd have my iPad over here with like *46:14* strategy for whatever I was doing or where I needed to go, but then things are going on around me and I just don't have I don't know, I don't have the same attention span of a *46:17* a ten year old to just sink right into this. *46:26* So I'll it's a good game, but it's a hard game. *46:29* I think this game's best quality and I I imagine this is something *46:33* all of us will agree with is that it is the one game in the Pokemon series other than I guess black and white too which is a sequel more than it is a totally independent Pokemon *46:38* game. *46:50* Like every Pokemon game from this point forward is just an independent game of its own, new region, new story, new characters. *46:51* This is this has those elements, but it's very much a sequel. *46:57* Like *47:01* You talk about all the payoffs, Max, but I think the payoffs are even greater because we've already played Fire Red and Leaf Green this year. *47:01* So we've got that whole game *47:08* Which builds into this one greatly, which makes those moments of fighting red on top of Mount Silver, or even the the s the story of Team Rocket continuing onward. *47:10* Like it those moments are *47:19* so great because they are building off of what has come before. *47:20* And Pokemon has never done that since in any capacity that I can think of other than black and white too. *47:23* And it really makes it that much more *47:30* special. *47:33* I I don't I don't know if people would appreciate them as much if they haven't played uh fire red or leaf green or red and blue or yellow or whatever, which I feel like everybody kind of has at this point. *47:34* Uh but that's what really makes this game *47:45* so much more special is that because this is the first generational jump, they hadn't really known what that was going to look like yet, I think. *47:48* And so they just naturally thought, Oh, it's a sequel, so of course we have to tie it in with what the last game was and eventually they dropped that because they *47:55* Just realized it was probably unsustainable. *48:02* Like we can't put Kanto and Johto in and Hoen in a single game. *48:04* So they just but with this one they totally did try to make it a sequel because that's just *48:08* the logical thing to do. *48:13* And I I think that's what that's why people like this game so much. *48:15* And that's w in a j in a and that's the single thing I can point to, which I think is so great about this game, is that it *48:18* It is a follow-up and I love that. *48:25* And you kind of continue that with also the idea of the jerk rival, right? *48:28* Yeah. *48:33* Like this is the last time *48:34* that like your rival is just mean. *48:36* He's a criminal that steals a Pokemon from Professor Elm's lab. *48:39* There's a break-in and *48:43* But then yeah, you tie that to the fact that and I'm trying to remember what the event was. *48:45* I don't I don't think we *48:51* played it, you know, naturally 'cause I think it was tied to a special event. *48:53* It might have been GS ball, Celebi, some sort of event or whatever *48:56* But when you learn that Silver, your rival, is Giovanni's son? *49:01* Yeah. *49:07* What *49:08* Canon Max, Canon. *49:10* Your rival is Giovanni's son. *49:12* I read that Giovanni like hides in the cave that connects Johto and Kanto. *49:14* I was actually kind of hoping that he was gonna be in charge of a gym or something *49:19* And that you find him again, but I didn't see him. *49:23* So there is an event and um it's um it's lost on me, like where you do you do get to encounter Giovanni, I believe at some point through a *49:27* a special event or whatever and then I there might even be like a I maybe Isn't he in that cave? *49:34* I think *49:41* He's in a cave. *49:43* I don't know if it's necessarily the Tojo Falls cave. *49:44* Yeah. *49:47* Yeah. *49:47* Some cave. *49:47* There may have even been like a little bit of a confrontation. *49:48* Or maybe he's just like, you know, I have a boy your age or something like that *49:51* It's things like that. *49:56* And then you also the lines that talk about how like, oh, you know, I I remember battling this boy a few years ago when it's like it's all the gym leaders like kind of reminiscing on red, and it's like, oh, you kind of remind me of him *49:57* To then lead up to that moment. *50:09* Like it is super cool for sure. *50:10* Apparently Giovanni does show up during the Celebi event, according to uh GameFacts discussion board from 12 years ago. *50:13* So *50:20* My dumb knowledge is not lost on me. *50:20* Fantastic. *50:23* Let's let's before we get more into the mechanical side of this game, which I think there is uh a little bit more to talk about, let's let's touch on the story, because I feel like we're naturally sort of *50:24* Doing that anyway. *50:34* Um, how did you guys feel about many of the broad beats in this story? *50:36* Uh because I feel like they're kind of *50:40* It's not very cohesive. *50:43* I j and this is how I felt with with uh Fire Red and Leaf Green. *50:44* Like there are things that are happening and things you come across that you have to do, but none of it really *50:48* flows together. *50:53* And I I don't feel like they really started doing that until until Ruby and Sapphire when it's like Team Aqua and Team Magma and Magma and they're tied to the legendaries of the *50:54* of the region and they're trying to get the legendaries. *51:03* Like if there's just Team Rocket's kind of off in a corner trying to revive itself. *51:05* You've got you're trying to become the champion. *51:09* You've got this rival that you're budding heads with. *51:11* There's just *51:13* things that are happening as you kind of roam around the region. *51:13* You and then you've got the side story with the legendary and it's tied to these kimono girls and it's just there's there's just a lot of stuff happening that doesn't really feel interconnected in ways that make a whole lot of *51:17* sense. *51:28* And I think that's fine for what it is, but they're they definitely do a better job in the future with the storytelling, especially with like the professor stuff too. *51:29* Like Elm's just kind of like, hey, here's an egg and d like like everything is just kind of *51:37* thrown at the wall and thrown at you as the player and you don't really know how to I mean you know how to respond to it I guess but it's just all very disconnected *51:42* I I think it goes back to the programming, you know, back from the original Gold and Silver where it's honestly a miracle that that game happened for the limited you know data that they had to move around and you hear about you know glitches on those old Game Boy games like *51:50* How does that work? *52:04* I guess like the moon ball is completely ineffectual. *52:05* Because it's supposed to work *52:10* best on, you know, Pokemon that evolve from a moonstone, but then they like identify the Pokemon wrong. *52:12* So like the moon ball just doesn't work. *52:18* And that's *52:20* Kurt and the apricorns and and all of that. *52:21* I've never thought of that before, but I think that's really interesting of how Ruby and Sapphire does it correctly with specific beats *52:24* with you know the antagonist team of well they gotta get you know the sphere and then this happens then we meet them on you know the the Mount Chimney or whatever and then it's the big confrontation *52:32* But I I think when you have to like try to stay on script based on a very old game that is, you know, limited technology and all that *52:43* I've always thought that the whiplash between Team Rocket is in the hideout in Mahogany Town, and they're pretty weak and under-leveled. *52:51* This is, of course, following Red Gyarados and everything. *53:01* And then you take on price in Mahogany Town, and then suddenly they've taken over the Rocket Tower, so we're whiplashing over to Goldenrod, and then they're significantly better. *53:05* I I think it's just it's trying to recreate a time when, you know, the programming and the the beat for beat hasn't hadn't been all developed. *53:16* Uh *53:24* But they're trying to recreate the feel. *53:25* And so I've always thought like that was so weird with Team Rocket that suddenly we're in a hideout, but then waha ha ha, Giovanni, listen to us now. *53:28* Here's our master concoction, and then that's it. *53:36* Like, that's all for Team Rocket. *53:39* I do love Rocket's motivation in this game though, which is that they got their butts kicked, Giovanni left. *53:41* uh but there's still this radical cult of people that he grouped up over the years that you're they're like, no, we won't let this mission die. *53:47* We have to keep this going. *53:53* We've we've got this mission from Giovanni and we we will continue this legacy and they're trying to keep it going. *53:55* Like that's *54:01* That's a great arc for Team Rocket specifically, which I really dig over the course of this game. *54:01* I think it's it's better than like, you know, Team Flair and X and Y. *54:06* Yes. *54:11* I wanna end the world. *54:15* Cool. *54:16* Great. *54:17* I I I just wish I feels like Rocket just vanishes. *54:19* Like you kick their butts at the radio tower. *54:23* And then they're just gone. *54:25* Hey, they steal some parts. *54:27* They steal so there's some foreign guy in Canto who steals a steals a part to a generator for some reason and then hides it in Misty's gym. *54:29* To train, yeah. *54:38* Also a little weird to kind of look back on. *54:40* It's like is it like is you want to consider like Pokemon racial humor? *54:41* Like it was a thing back then and they kind of continued it, but yeah *54:46* Why does he have an accent? *54:49* Like what's the right thing? *54:50* He's from a different country. *54:52* Whatever that means. *54:54* He's like, oh, I'll go back to my homeland. *54:55* Now it's like, okay. *54:57* Goodbye. *54:58* It's just so *55:00* It was interesting. *55:02* I cause I like the at the start of the game I liked the little stories in each town you kinda went to, like the slowpokes had their tails chopped off, which was just very cruel. *55:02* And then they eat them. *55:14* Like what is going on here? *55:16* But then they're sold later. *55:17* Exactly. *55:19* And then I wrote it down. *55:20* What *55:22* Where was it? *55:23* Oh, the far-fetched were lost in the woods. *55:24* Like you'd get to little towns or the one Pokemon was sick in the lighthouse. *55:26* But at little I wrote this as like *55:31* Keeps it engaging. *55:34* I like these. *55:35* And then a few bullets later on my notes, now those little stories are slowing up progression. *55:35* They feel like one more step. *55:39* Like now they're getting in the way of each other, and I feel like there's just some *55:41* I enjoyed those stories, but it felt like there were some pacing issues at times. *55:45* And especially for Logan and myself coming off of sword, which is just go to the gym. *55:48* Here's the joke. *55:55* And and here's cutscenes and like, you know, more modern storytelling. *55:57* And it's like we're trying to retell it how we did in 2000. *56:01* Yeah. *56:07* And ten years later. *56:07* I wish Canto had a bit more story to it. *56:09* It feels aimless in a way. *56:13* And I know that's not technically true. *56:15* They plop you right in the middle of it and have you do they guide you in a in a circle around to get all the badges, but there *56:17* There's no I guess your only motivation is you want more badges, so you just go get them. *56:23* But there's there's no threat *56:29* looming per se, no m motivation besides the gym stuff. *56:31* So that I wish there was a bit more there. *56:35* And then they make you do similar things again like, hey *56:37* Snorlaxes are in the highway again. *56:39* Gotta clear them again, but there's no flutes this time. *56:41* You gotta get a radio flute. *56:44* So they kinda the things that they do introduce in that sort of side story way is *56:47* Done again. *56:53* Yeah. *56:54* I think it would have been nice for Game Freak to look at and see like, okay, how can we flesh this out and make it better? *56:55* Because it was is very much the same way of *57:02* How Kanto was pushed into Gold and Silver. *57:04* And again, we'll stress, it was miraculous that that happened. *57:09* Like it should not have been done, but *57:12* Satoru Iwada by yeah, the skin of his teeth made it work. *57:14* But in in two thousand nine, twenty ten, you know, finishing up development, wouldn't it have been nice to think of like how do we flesh this out more instead of the yeah, yeah, you're right, relatively bare bones. *57:18* for the the novelty of it all. *57:29* I and it's hard to say. *57:31* Yeah. *57:33* Especially because like Fi Fire Red and Leaf Green added like whole new story segments with like the Savvy Islands and stuff. *57:33* Like I noticed that they weren't in this game. *57:39* I didn't *57:41* The sea foam islands aren't here, which I thought was interesting considering they had put them in Fire Red and Leaf Green, which came out before Heart Gold and Soul Silver. *57:42* So I thought they would have wanted to keep that kind of world continuity there. *57:51* I liked how *57:54* Is it Cinnabar? *57:55* Is the island in the bottom corner? *57:56* Like how Cinnabar is gone and Blaine is like in a gym in a volcano. *57:58* Like that's pretty cool. *58:03* Like there's some legacy world stuff there if you've played *58:04* Red, blue, fire, red, leaf, green, those games. *58:09* The those characters are around still. *58:11* I like that, but that's lost if you haven't played those games. *58:13* Mm-hmm. *58:17* Yeah, it's very much just kind of doing a tour around Kanto and seeing what all the other gym leaders have been up to and how they've changed and what their Pokemon teams are now. *58:18* And that's kind of about it. *58:26* And there are some other things that have changed, like *58:27* Obviously Giovanni's not the gym leader anymore, so they slot Blue or Gary, whatever you want to call him in there. *58:29* And then you've got uh *58:35* Koga's no longer around as well. *58:37* Which he which is a cool thing that I always thought was very novel when I was a kid. *58:42* Let's talk I I have a lot of things to say gameplay-wise and mechanically and uh I I I want let's start off this way. *58:48* I have always told Max that my least favorite gin *58:56* is uh my least favorite games uh were Diamond and Pearl OG. *59:01* There was a lot of problems I had with them, but I always would then conversely say *59:06* Gold and silver heart gold and soul silver were some of my favorites. *59:10* And so going back to this, I started to wonder why heart, gold, and soul silver are my favorites because they're the mechanically the same as diamond and pearl. *59:13* And I don't know what it's really just smacked me in the face this time, like wait a minute, how s *59:20* Stupid was I to say that this is my favorite and this is my least favorite. *59:24* I think part of that's just because of other elements associated with Diamond Pearl. *59:28* But anyway *59:32* Yeah, there's a lot of weird small issues I have, and I don't want to list all of them because then it just gets mundane. *59:33* Um for the most part, again, this is a Pokemon game. *59:40* I don't know how much we want to say about the core *59:44* Combat and stuff, it's all still Pokemon and it's still early Pokemon. *59:46* And I do like how simplified the combat is compared to how it gets in later games. *59:50* Like I don't love all the *59:55* Like X and Y onward with the form changes and stuff like that I've not been the hugest fan of or Dynamaxing or I don't know these things are fine. *59:57* The gimmick, yeah. *01:00:05* Yeah, it just feels like a gimmick even with Scarlet and Violet now we've got the *01:00:06* Uh the harass the lies. *01:00:10* Yes, yes. *01:00:13* We're getting we're getting very strange. *01:00:14* Uh it feels like we're running out of ideas. *01:00:16* So I do love how basic the the combat is in that sense. *01:00:18* And I guess we we can just start there. *01:00:22* I I don't know, because there's other things I want to bring up that aren't necessarily ra related to combat. *01:00:23* I I mean, how did you guys feel like these games still play nowadays at just as turn-based *01:00:27* kids level JRPGs, I guess. *01:00:33* Yeah, I I agree that it's nice to not have the gimmick in a sense. *01:00:36* And again, you know, when we're talking about this episode representing *01:00:40* The Gen 2 game with gold and silver, but also the heart, gold, soul, silver. *01:00:45* I mean, we keep bringing back like it's because of how it was, but it's it's pretty *01:00:49* uh inextricable there. *01:00:54* I think the big gimmick here with this one in Gen 2 was the addition of two new types. *01:00:55* You kinda had to counter psychics which were too overpowered in the first game, and so you add the dark type. *01:01:01* Okay. *01:01:08* I don't know what was the necessity to have this steel type, but it's it's worked out to be fine. *01:01:09* Uh especially a weird counter to to fairies. *01:01:16* Go figure how that works. *01:01:21* Like steel attacks are super effective. *01:01:22* It took a long time for steel to really feel like it was uh relevant within Pokemon. *01:01:24* Exactly. *01:01:28* It was just kind of shoved that aside for so long. *01:01:29* And okay, a steel ball slams into a rock and it explodes the rock. *01:01:31* I okay, I I get that too. *01:01:35* But uh it was interesting to have then, you know, yeah, you had this the steel gym, you had the dark *01:01:36* Elite four trainer and that and that makes sense. *01:01:43* I feel like that was the big thing in Gold and Silver. *01:01:45* You know, more types, and then we wouldn't see that again *01:01:48* I believe until Fairy, if I'm I'm not mistaken, which would be X and Y Gen Six. *01:01:51* So I mean, that that took a little bit. *01:01:56* As far as *01:01:58* Heart, gold, and soul, silver being c you know, being off of Gen 4 with Diamond and Pearl. *01:02:00* I I mentioned it earlier, but the change of just saying that *01:02:04* Well, it's this type of attack, therefore it plays into your special, or it plays into your attack. *01:02:09* The way that that worked in the older games where it's like, well, water is always special. *01:02:16* And normal is always physical. *01:02:21* And for Gen 4 to introduce the idea, well, no, it depends on the kind of attack. *01:02:24* If it's a punch, no matter what type it is, it's gonna be a physical. *01:02:30* If it's a beam, no matter what kind of type it is, it's going to be a special. *01:02:34* And for that to *01:02:40* You know, you have your special attack and your special defense. *01:02:41* Uh and correct me if I'm wrong, I think Gen 2 still had only this *01:02:44* special type. *01:02:49* It wasn't broken out into special attack and defense. *01:02:51* I think that was Gen 3, that that change was made. *01:02:54* I think you're right, but also you would be in a better position to know than me because I played those games when I was just dumb kid and I'm like, Oh, use the move. *01:02:57* Like I had not gotten into the under the hood *01:03:06* Stats recognition of how Pokemon operated at that point in time. *01:03:09* But then Gen 3 was where he'd changed up and you really get the nitty-gritty of the Eevees and the IVs for all the the big Pokemon nerds out there. *01:03:20* They know the nature's and all that. *01:03:28* But Gen 4 was big, I think, in *01:03:30* Kind of recognizing, okay, what's this attack actually doing? *01:03:32* Where do we attribute that to its attack? *01:03:36* To its special attack? *01:03:38* And I think that was huge. *01:03:40* Um *01:03:42* For platinum to have come out and I think refine Gen 4 a little bit more and then heart gold soul silver, I think that improves when you talk about the difference between that and diamond and pearl, um, the speed *01:03:42* Is yoke for as slow as you look back on hardcold soulsilver and think that it is, Diamond and Pearl was slower still. *01:03:55* And that's because of the improvement they made with platinum. *01:04:03* So I mean it's it's things like that that it's *01:04:05* It is interesting to think about, okay, well yeah, it's been a while since this hard SoulSilver game has come out, and how has Pokemon changed since then? *01:04:08* But you think back to the original Gen 2, and it's been further changed still. *01:04:15* I'm getting the hang of remembering the type stuff better, Logan. *01:04:22* I told you I told you this game would do it for you because Yeah *01:04:27* Max still doesn't have the whole grid memorized in his head and uh Sword and Shield was kind of helping him a little bit more with that now. *01:04:31* Yeah. *01:04:39* It helps when the UI, you know, says it it's super effective. *01:04:40* Remember you tried this before. *01:04:43* Yeah. *01:04:44* More of that, please. *01:04:45* Scarlet and violet, please. *01:04:46* It *01:04:49* I'm getting better at it. *01:04:50* I I have to say as someone who really the le you know, before this season, the last Pokemon game I definitely played front to back was Platinum and Diamond and uh and Pearl. *01:04:52* Being back on the DS felt immediate I was immediately at home. *01:05:04* My thumb was flying around the touchscreen UI. *01:05:09* I think it's still the best. *01:05:11* Uh uh sure, some rose-tinted glasses here, a little nostalgia. *01:05:13* I think it's the best UI ev just because of the immediacy of touch. *01:05:17* And sure you could do that, I believe, on the Switch if you play in portable mode, I believe. *01:05:22* tapping the screen would interact with the UI. *01:05:27* I wouldn't see why not. *01:05:29* Perhaps not. *01:05:31* But I enjoyed that tremendously, being back in the the four quadrants and being able to move and and have things be a little snappier. *01:05:32* Having the pokey is it pokey gear was the that was cumbersome. *01:05:41* It felt like too many clicks or taps to get where you wanted. *01:05:49* It's like *01:05:52* You open it, go to the map, go to the thing, now you can zoom in or go around. *01:05:53* But that's fine. *01:05:59* There's a lot of reliance on the phone, which I'm sure we'll talk about in this game at some point. *01:06:01* The phone is definitely huge. *01:06:06* But in the realm of battling and stuff, it just feels to me it just feels like old school Pokemon in that way of *01:06:08* I don't know how else to describe it. *01:06:17* It's what I really remember coming back to. *01:06:19* And it feels good. *01:06:22* It's hard. *01:06:24* This game is very difficult, I think. *01:06:25* I I think the game's not afraid to kick your teeth in *01:06:27* Uh a lot, especially in the mid and late game. *01:06:31* This game's like, if you're not high enough level, good luck. *01:06:35* And I think a problem with that is is they *01:06:38* I don't think effectively communicate the best way to level up. *01:06:41* Um, you kinda have to engage with a mechanic *01:06:45* the phone to learn that you can level up faster because the everything is so under you until you get to the challenges and then everything's above you again. *01:06:50* And *01:06:58* uh things hit hard in this game. *01:06:59* Well th that's you you touched on one of my big problems with this game, which is that I think you face enough trainers throughout the *01:07:01* mainline game to where you shouldn't have a problem leveling up. *01:07:09* The problem is that the the common trainers that you'll run across and even like Team Rocket grunts and stuff like that, their Pokemon are so drastically *01:07:13* under-leveled compared to you. *01:07:22* And that seems to be done intentionally because they don't they know that there's an entire second half of the game *01:07:24* waiting. *01:07:30* And so this is one of the only Pokemon games I can think of where you get to the Elite Four and the first time around and the Pokemon they're rocking are like level 40s, 50s. *01:07:31* Usually I feel like it's sixties or so where when you get to the Elite Four. *01:07:41* It felt like you get to the Elite Four and everybody's Pokemon are about ten levels lower than normal once you reach that stage of the game. *01:07:45* And I feel like the game does this intentionally. *01:07:51* Because again, there's an entire second half they want you to go off and explore. *01:07:54* And they want you to feel like you still have progression left with your team and uh there's still a lot of room there. *01:07:57* Um *01:08:04* But it does make leveling up very difficult. *01:08:05* And I think I I should say that I mean we'll talk about team construction here in a bit. *01:08:09* Max knows that I went through some crazy things to give myself the team that I have in this game, like *01:08:14* importing certain ones from I think I have people I I have I have certain Pokemon my on my team that I brought over from Emerald because I I I that the only way I could get them *01:08:20* was uh via emerald and then I palparked them over to diamond and then brought them over to my Soul Silver. *01:08:30* So like I did some crazy roster construction with this *01:08:36* Which then in turn gives me the XP buffs because they came via a trade. *01:08:39* So I probably had a little bit of an easier time with leveling up my team, and I still found it to be frankly *01:08:44* Pretty ridiculous with how they just intentionally kind of try to ensure that you're not leveling up at too high of a rate. *01:08:50* But then when you get to certain points, oh yep, everybody's five to ten levels higher than you, it's like, okay. *01:08:57* I have to go grind now, but it really feels like I shouldn't be in a position where I have to grind because I've encountered literally every possible trainer in this map on this in this Johto region that I could, and I'm still *01:09:02* getting my teeth kicked in like Max said. *01:09:14* I agree. *01:09:17* The Johto grind is fine. *01:09:18* Like I think they've planned that well. *01:09:20* But then when you go to Canto, why are the wild still babies? *01:09:23* Yes. *01:09:30* This is that's exactly why I transported one of my Pokemon over. *01:09:31* Because I wanted a Hound Doom in this game. *01:09:34* The only place you can get a Hound Hour in the game is in Kanto. *01:09:37* And it's like level fifteen. *01:09:41* And Max is like, Well, why don't you just wait until you get to Canto and do it? *01:09:43* I'm like, Because the grind is insane in this game *01:09:46* It's absurd. *01:09:49* And not only that, but why are Johto Pokemon only in Kanto parts of the map? *01:09:50* Like it's crazy. *01:09:56* Yeah. *01:09:58* And I I think you know the the trainers, like I they kind of keep up with the way I w are they like high thirties? *01:10:00* And that's not good enough anymore. *01:10:07* And unless you get *01:10:09* repeated battles in the Poke Gear and the phone and all that. *01:10:10* But I I think the fact that if you want to say like, oh, you're gonna encounter a a brave new wilderness that is, you know, three years removed from the story, like *01:10:14* have there be some growth. *01:10:23* And I feel like that it it's a stunting in a way, I think. *01:10:24* And that's that's tough. *01:10:29* This is I think part of what I was talking about about having time. *01:10:31* When you're a kid playing this game, you have all the time in the world to run around and do *01:10:35* the menial grinding of fighting weaker Pokemon and just taking the baby drip of XP that way. *01:10:40* Uh or have the time to really engage with the the rebattle mechanic in the game. *01:10:47* But as an adult, playing this game and also playing the game for a show, which I understand is a situation all three of us put ourselves in. *01:10:53* Which then also adds exterior pressure of, well, I need to like beat this game in a somewhat timely manner, but still it's *01:11:01* Getting to the Elite Four even, I was a bit underleveled and that was really tough. *01:11:09* But then later on, those gyms, you get to the gym leaders and they're *01:11:13* They're really hard. *01:11:18* And what are your options? *01:11:19* You fought every trainer near you. *01:11:21* You could I guess go back to Johto and do the rebattle thing, but that requires you to get on a train. *01:11:23* Or to fly to the middle of the map and then fly to Johto, because you can't fly cross continent. *01:11:28* Data loading, it's hard. *01:11:34* And so *01:11:37* There's that just kind of this hurdle to even get to the grind part. *01:11:39* There's like a pre-grind to the grind. *01:11:44* And *01:11:46* the XP sharing uh device only that's not how it is later at least. *01:11:48* Um so that's not really that's how it should be. *01:11:55* That's how it should be *01:11:57* It's a drip feat. *01:12:00* Come on, just help me. *01:12:02* I'm an XP share originalist over here. *01:12:03* But I so that, you know, so what do you do? *01:12:07* And then I ran into the problem Logan was talking about, not with a a Houndune. *01:12:11* I wanted, we'll talk I wanted a Gengar *01:12:16* And it was like, well, I guess I have to get this at night in Bell Tower was where uh the quickest I could get a g a gasly. *01:12:18* And it's like, well, how do I *01:12:26* It's level 15. *01:12:28* How am I gonna bring this up? *01:12:29* And so that was a lot of a lot of grinding just to bring it even closer to the other. *01:12:31* And then who would you trade with? *01:12:35* Yeah. *01:12:37* Well, I did technically. *01:12:37* Um because I had I could have the ROM on the 3DS and then uh the get real game on my DS. *01:12:40* So I did do some trading. *01:12:46* Not of Pokemon. *01:12:48* My every Pokemon on the game I caught on the Heart Gold. *01:12:49* I didn't do because I don't have legacy Pokemon like Logan lying around on an emerald cartridge to do. *01:12:52* But I did do some trading *01:12:57* was it for items and stuff just to and evolutions for the Gengar and a Machamp. *01:12:59* So cause I got there's a trade in I think Goldenrod in the store. *01:13:05* Where you could trade a drowsy for a mach macher. *01:13:09* Um I believe it's a female mock shop. *01:13:12* Yes. *01:13:15* And uh I was I was funny you mentioned that because I was reading today where it was, you know, people were like *01:13:16* Oh my god, Whitney's Miltank is so hard. *01:13:21* It's it's got rollout and that attract and like it's a female MaCop specifically to counter that if you really have a problem with it. *01:13:25* And that's how I got through that gym. *01:13:33* Yeah. *01:13:35* And that was the only one that I had tr technically traded because the game treats it as a trade, and that MaCop who turns into the Machamp *01:13:36* Always got this boosted XP. *01:13:45* Now, I will say it took me about half the game to realize why he was gaining so much more XP. *01:13:47* Oh, okay. *01:13:52* Yeah. *01:13:53* I thought it was the item he had. *01:13:53* And then when I got rid of it, I realized, oh, it has nothing to do with the item you're holding. *01:13:55* So one point five times, yeah. *01:14:02* Yeah, which was immensely helpful. *01:14:05* And I kind of wish everyone else leveled up like that. *01:14:07* Yeah, I think I imported one, two, I think I imported like three or four Pokemon on my team. *01:14:10* Cause I knew about that and I was like, I'm just gonna make the grind a little easier for myself in this sense. *01:14:17* So I brought over like I think I brought over three Pokemon from Diamond. *01:14:23* Um, so my f my starter was like under-leveled compared to all of them. *01:14:27* It's like, come on, get up there, catch up with the rest of the gang. *01:14:31* So this is where I'll share that *01:14:34* My soul silver cartridge. *01:14:38* Uh my fiance is going through her first experience with the game uh while I was playing. *01:14:40* And the heart gold cartridge I have, my brother was trying a nuzloc with it *01:14:46* So a a physical, you know, while I do have the physical cartridges was not available to me. *01:14:52* Going the emulation route, you do have some advantages. *01:14:58* Like *01:15:03* A toggle at a button press of a faster playback speed? *01:15:04* It is nice to play this game at times at 600% *01:15:09* If you want the grind of just mash, mash, mash, mash, mash through, just bop, bop, bop, it's it's real nice. *01:15:12* Yeah. *01:15:18* However, you are isolated and uh creatures that do need trading to evolve. *01:15:19* Kinda have to be stuck there. *01:15:27* So that it's the trade-off. *01:15:29* Let's talk about roster construction then because I'm curious how did that Max knows my own *01:15:31* level of insanity when it comes to roster construction. *01:15:35* I look at the entire Pokedex beforehand and I'm like, I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this. *01:15:37* And I didn't do that as crazy this time. *01:15:42* There was *01:15:44* I guess there was like three or four that I knew I wanted on my team. *01:15:45* I I ended up with a uh I knew I wanted a Zattu because I don't think I've ever used one before. *01:15:47* And I was like, okay, psychic bird, let's try this. *01:15:53* I had a Ursaring, I had a Hound Doom, and then I wanted a Hitmon Top as well this time, which is hard to get, which is why I very difficult. *01:15:56* Which is why I wanted it. *01:16:06* So I had to run around *01:16:07* in diamond to find a Tyrogue because you can't even get a Tyrogue in so like again this is like the weird the weirdness of soul of silver and gold. *01:16:09* I don't think you can get a Tyrogue until you get one *01:16:19* uh in canto or you get one from one of the karate guys but it's like a late game. *01:16:22* And so I was like, I don't wanna do that. *01:16:27* But even then, again, we're we're naturally getting into some weird things. *01:16:29* Ty Rogues in Gen 4 *01:16:34* Don't learn any they learn like three moves up until level 20 and then they evolve and then from level 20 onward whatever they evolve into it'll obviously learn different moves *01:16:36* For Hitmon Top specifically though, its triple kick move, it learns at like level 16. *01:16:46* So then it's like, what? *01:16:53* I can't even get a Hitmontop until I evolve it at level 20 *01:16:55* But and then it's one of its core moves. *01:16:59* It's it's I had I had to go to the uh I had to The heart scale. *01:17:01* Yeah, I had to I think I had to bring it back to diamond *01:17:05* And then go to the move learner there and teach him the move and then trade him back. *01:17:09* So it it like these are some of the insane idiosyncrasies of Gen 4 that I don't understand. *01:17:13* Like who thought this stuff out? *01:17:18* One other problem in the game, and I don't know if this was a problem for you guys again with how you built your teams, where do you get you you don't get the uh *01:17:20* The Firestones, the uh uh electric stones, you don't get those until Canto. *01:17:29* I had a Pikachu on my team that I could not evolve into a Raichu until I got to *01:17:34* Canto, I believe, because the only one of the only ways you can get it is you have to go to the guy who is in Bill's house, Bill's old house above Cerulean City, and he's like, I want to see this certain Pokemon. *01:17:38* And if you bring him the Pokemon, then he'll give you a certain evolutionary stone as a reward. *01:17:49* And I was like, well, I'm not gonna do that. *01:17:54* I can just trade my Pikachu again, back to my diamond, I'll just go *01:17:56* I I think I just had an electric stone on me and I just evolved it really fast and then swapped it back over. *01:18:01* Like there are so if you try to build a native team *01:18:06* within silver and gold that you could not use help from other games, it's so hard. *01:18:11* Like I believe. *01:18:16* Like it is so you are met with problems left and right. *01:18:17* And especially with a lot of the new Pokemon. *01:18:21* Like that's what I don't *01:18:23* That's what I don't I don't get. *01:18:25* Like they're like they're locking these new Pokemon behind like Hitmontops a really cool Pokemon and it's a it's a very unique one in that gen. *01:18:26* But even if you get it, it's not gonna know great moves. *01:18:34* It's just so there's so many weird little strange things I came across with this game. *01:18:39* So I'm curious if you guys had any of similar problems like this. *01:18:43* I agree, a quick sidebar. *01:18:48* The the stone situation is weird. *01:18:50* You're totally right of hiding behind weird mechanics, according to Cerebi. *01:18:52* net. *01:18:56* A thunderstone, Injoto. *01:18:56* Come first in the bug catching contest in National Park. *01:18:59* But it's R and G I think that's R and G with R Sony. *01:19:04* Correct. *01:19:07* Correct. *01:19:08* And then our good pal the Poke Gear phone, uh, it there's a certain trainer that you have to talk to, and so it's it's attributes it to Route 38. *01:19:09* And it's *01:19:19* The chance that they'll call you and say, I I found this. *01:19:20* I always remember it's uh the guy uh on Route 42. *01:19:23* uh he has the water stone uh but it's it's like similar sort of thing where it's just a total crapshoot of whether or not you're gonna get this stuff. *01:19:28* So it's like okay well totally I *01:19:36* Like with how I plan my teams out far in advance like that, like I knew I wanted a Raichu this time, and I got like I had like a level 45 Pikachu and I was like, why do I not have a Thunderstone yet? *01:19:39* This is kind of odd. *01:19:48* Yeah, I mean early game, I was like, you know *01:19:50* You get this mystery egg and Togepi hatches. *01:19:54* You know what? *01:19:57* This time around I'm gonna try because now it can evolve into Togekiss in Gen 4. *01:19:58* I you know, didn't of course for the original Gold and Silver games, because that wasn't a thing. *01:20:04* But like, you know what, I'm gonna try. *01:20:07* And I got it to evolve it into a Togetic *01:20:09* Uh but then another flying option was presented and it's like, oh this is just better. *01:20:14* Yeah. *01:20:19* Like the the the togatic was just not *01:20:19* worth it to keep in the party long term. *01:20:22* So yeah, they present you with these interesting options, but then uh just have it be very stifling. *01:20:24* What would what did your team look like in lieu of not being able to get certain trade book? *01:20:30* Sure. *01:20:34* Um so it ended up being that I I when I play these games and I've played Gen 2, Gen 4, and for the Johto games many times, without fail *01:20:35* I'm gonna run a Geodude, I'm gonna run Canabra and you evolve it up into Cadabra. *01:20:46* Like without fail. *01:20:50* And of course, then this is the stopping point where, like, you know what? *01:20:51* Man, an Alex Ammon a golem would be real nice. *01:20:54* So *01:20:56* To become the Johto champion with the Elite Four, I did have a a Graveler and a Kadabra on my team. *01:20:58* But once you start pushing into late game, like *01:21:04* I can catch a legendary and probably replace it. *01:21:07* Yup, the Snorlax can learn Earthquake. *01:21:12* You know, maybe we'll *01:21:15* We'll do that instead. *01:21:16* So uh did you guys nickname your Pokemon? *01:21:18* Because I'm not normally one to nickname my Pokemon, but for this time around *01:21:22* I decided to have fun with it. *01:21:26* So my elite four we can't we can even talk about starter. *01:21:29* What starter did you pick? *01:21:33* Oh, I went with ToDial. *01:21:35* Toted Dial. *01:21:36* Totodile. *01:21:38* Alright, we're all Totedile boys. *01:21:38* He's the best one. *01:21:40* The reason I did that though is because I think water types suck in Jin 2. *01:21:41* And this is something else we can talk about in a second. *01:21:45* I feel like the *01:21:47* Pokemon like the variation of Pokemon in this gen is kind of crummy. *01:21:48* Like I don't know. *01:21:53* Where Gen 3 is too much water. *01:21:54* Gin 2 is not enough. *01:21:56* Uh my Elite Four team was Chompers, the Fur Alligator, Goldiewool, the Amphoros, Rooster, the Ho-O. *01:22:00* I caught Entei. *01:22:10* So I named him Iroh. *01:22:12* I had Psyche the Cadabra and Mega Woman. *01:22:15* Because it was a female grappler. *01:22:18* Mega woman. *01:22:20* Because I was gonna go mega man, but then like, oh no, it's a it's a female megawoman. *01:22:21* Mega woman. *01:22:26* Yeah. *01:22:27* So I did run into a similar problem to you, Logan. *01:22:29* I didn't need a thunderstone, I needed a leaf stone. *01:22:33* Oh, to evolve my gloom into a vile plume. *01:22:35* And I did wait until I got to Bill's grandfather's house because But Blossom. *01:22:40* I didn't want the tiny little blossom *01:22:47* What is I don't know. *01:22:50* I didn't even look at Blossom really. *01:22:51* Isn't it a sunstone? *01:22:53* It's a it's a sunstone evolution. *01:22:54* Yep. *01:22:56* So I did a leaf stone and got vial plume that way. *01:22:56* For alligator. *01:23:00* Hello, because I needed fire and flying, and so I thought I'd just fuse those into one. *01:23:02* I didn't catch any of the legendary dogs or anything. *01:23:07* They were too difficult roaming around the world. *01:23:09* I even got one with a mean look. *01:23:11* And it still ran away. *01:23:13* So I I don't know what I don't know what I was doing wrong there. *01:23:15* Uh a Gengar, like I mentioned, uh a champ also, and then a Mewtwo because it was late game and I needed something strong and it's level 70. *01:23:17* And I was like, all right, you are Yep. *01:23:26* A 15-20 level jump here. *01:23:28* We need you. *01:23:30* Is that what you used to trounce red? *01:23:31* I assume? *01:23:32* Uh it was a part. *01:23:33* I did not trounce red. *01:23:35* Red took 45 minutes. *01:23:36* Okay. *01:23:39* It was *01:23:39* arduous to say the least, but it felt good. *01:23:41* Mewtwo was a part of it. *01:23:43* I actually taught Mewtwo Earthquake uh to deal with Pikachu. *01:23:45* Oh see, Mewtwo's a special attack. *01:23:49* Yeah. *01:23:51* So you it's like Shadow Ball and Ice Beam are probably the ones you want to do. *01:23:52* For alligator, Amphros, and Ho-O ran with me to the end. *01:23:56* I subbed out the other three for Bigums the Snorlax *01:23:59* Yu-Gi-Oh! *01:24:02* the Lugia and uh less than three as the Mewtwo. *01:24:03* Yeah. *01:24:08* Gotcha. *01:24:09* I like that. *01:24:10* I have not swapped out my team yet. *01:24:11* I do keep k entertaining the idea of dropping the Hitman top though because I think he kind of sucks. *01:24:12* If you don't evolve twice, I don't think you're that good in Pokemon games. *01:24:17* I always like to get Pokemon that evolve twice because you just get those natural stat bumps. *01:24:22* Yeah. *01:24:28* I will say some self-imposed struggle that I put on myself, and I aware how dumb this was in hindsight. *01:24:29* One of the mechanics in Pokemon is if you don't evolve a Pokemon, they learn more powerful moves sooner than they would in their next evolution. *01:24:37* And I was looking at my to dial and then uh conc what cronc crocana croc a na. *01:24:45* That's a tongue twister, at least for me. *01:24:53* Uh and I was like, ah, you learned Hydro Pump at level 51. *01:24:55* Hold this Everstone. *01:24:58* And so I didn't evolve into a Feralligator until after learning Hydro Pump. *01:25:00* And then I immediately replaced Hydro Pump with that one move you can learn from the lady. *01:25:06* Yep. *01:25:11* That's exactly why when you told me that you were gonna do this, I was like, Max, there's a much better option later for you. *01:25:11* I didn't tell you until I had done it *01:25:18* Yeah. *01:25:20* I forget what the move is called though, but the the super strong one. *01:25:22* Is it hydrocannon? *01:25:26* Yeah. *01:25:27* So I immediately replaced it with Hydro Cannon. *01:25:28* Surf. *01:25:30* Like Surf is perfectly fine. *01:25:30* Surf is great. *01:25:32* I w yeah, it was uh I made mistakes, okay? *01:25:34* I made some mistakes. *01:25:37* Yeah, Max sent me an image of his own game and he said, Finally I have a Feraligator and I was like, wait. *01:25:37* Why do you still have how has it not reached level what 36? *01:25:42* And he's like, oh, it's flown past 30. *01:25:46* He's like, oh yeah, it's like level 55. *01:25:49* I was like, what are you doing in this playthrough, sir? *01:25:51* I won't do that again. *01:25:56* I won't make that mistake. *01:25:57* One other thing I'm curious about with you guys, and this is su uh again something they changed later, which was for the better, I believe. *01:25:58* I found that a lot of my this could just be tied specifically to the Pokemon that I ran with. *01:26:05* But did you did you guys feel like a lot of the moves that your Pokemon learn in these games? *01:26:10* Suck because I was finding that most moves my my team was naturally learning was terrible and the moves that I was outfitting them with that were actually good came from TMs *01:26:15* which are only one-time uses in this game. *01:26:25* And that's something that's a change they made in the l in the later games that was greatly beneficial. *01:26:28* Like most of the moves that I have on my team that I think are *01:26:33* worthwhile are moves that I taught everybody. *01:26:37* Like I think my Urs ring, for instance, knows Earthquake, it knows Avalanche slash is a move it naturally learned and then there was another TM move that I think I taught it as well in that mix. *01:26:40* Three of its four moves are TMs, like and it wasn't and it wasn't it's not like it was learning anything else that was very *01:26:52* Good. *01:26:59* Like I I put this this was a thing with Hitmon Top as well. *01:26:59* Like all of its good moves it's learned earlier in its kit before it even evolved. *01:27:03* And it's like *01:27:06* This is so strange. *01:27:07* Like why why is this a thing? *01:27:08* Um I think this is a whiplash of you know playing newer Pokemon games and then going back because I remember the shift of going forward. *01:27:10* I think it was sun and moon of like *01:27:19* This Pokemon learns this move this early? *01:27:21* Like, and it's and then of course they do the the TMs are you know endless use and all that. *01:27:24* But then you go back to the times and yeah *01:27:30* Th some of the movesets are real rough. *01:27:33* I mean raising an amphoros and like discharge even comes way too late. *01:27:35* Yeah. *01:27:42* And you gotta rely on thunder punch most of the way. *01:27:42* But then again, that's the difference of a physical attack versus the special attack. *01:27:44* So *01:27:49* Uh thunder occurs like super late and let's it's like in the sixties I think even in its uh same with my Zattu. *01:27:50* It learns psychic on its own eventually, but I think it's like near like sixties or seventies levels. *01:27:57* I'm like, well I'm just gonna *01:28:01* I'm just gonna give it the TM here, because I think Zatu what's crazy about that is that it doesn't even learn any psychic moves naturally until psychic *01:28:03* The worst. *01:28:13* It deals no it had no psychic uh special attack moves whatsoever until it learned psychic like in the level 60s or 70s. *01:28:14* It's like, well, what am I supposed to do with this thing? *01:28:21* And there are too many Pokemon that that's the case where it's like it's a specific type, but you have this like baby move or no move at all to like take advantage of that and say, what am I doing with it? *01:28:23* Yeah. *01:28:34* I felt like my team struggled a lot and probably part of that was self-imposed. *01:28:35* Uh but I just *01:28:40* I struggled a lot with the HM stuff because I wanted a balanced team and then I I'm required to navigate the world to have at least three of these HMs by the end game with me at all times. *01:28:42* And it's like, well, do I really want to take *01:28:54* my totodile or for alligator at that point and have it no surf and waterfall and then have uh machamp, you know, rock climb and smash and what strength. *01:28:56* It's like well where's the variety and moves here? *01:29:07* And so I really struggled with that. *01:29:10* You know, Vileplume or Gloom really didn't know anything except poison powder, sleep powder, cut, 'cause I needed cut. *01:29:13* And then the drain moves, you know? *01:29:20* And so I'm stuck with these for most of the game. *01:29:23* It wasn't be till *01:29:26* Canto that I went to the move forgetter finally was like I think it's actually before it read. *01:29:28* I was like, I don't want this move. *01:29:33* Get rid of cut. *01:29:35* Yes. *01:29:36* Please go away. *01:29:37* And so I I had Giga Drain. *01:29:38* Sleep powder, I want to say pedal, the pedal thing. *01:29:41* Pedal dance, yeah. *01:29:45* Dance, pedal dance. *01:29:46* And then I've I've looked up *01:29:47* grass TMs and found grass knot. *01:29:49* I was like, this will probably help. *01:29:51* That's that's a d that's a good one. *01:29:53* Yeah, sure. *01:29:55* So I w you know, but uh that was *01:29:55* at the very end of the game. *01:29:58* So I'm struggling with a lot of the HM balance, I think, and the moves they learned definitely weren't my favorites at all. *01:29:59* Uh *01:30:06* For the most part, but ho-oh I didn't really change much. *01:30:07* I don't think I I the only thing I changed was teaching it fly because I needed fly to get around the world and it needed a I think a flying move *01:30:10* But I kept the two fire moves and the psychic one just for variety's sake. *01:30:18* I would I guess I would chate trade out extra century. *01:30:22* It's just *01:30:26* I felt hindered by the HM requirements of the world. *01:30:27* And I'm now I'm very worried about Ruby and Sapphire. *01:30:31* Because isn't that part of the isn't that part of the too much water? *01:30:36* Isn't it a bunch of water HMs? *01:30:39* Yes. *01:30:42* Yeah. *01:30:43* I'm I'm trying to remember how much of a role that Whirlpool and Waterfall play in that game. *01:30:44* Okay. *01:30:50* Uh because they add HM08. *01:30:50* was uh not rock climb. *01:30:53* You know, that was that was a new one for Gen 4. *01:30:55* Well dive is in there too. *01:30:57* That's it. *01:30:59* Yeah, HMO8 is dive. *01:31:00* And it's basically a water dig. *01:31:02* So at least it's like it's a nice move. *01:31:04* uh to use, but I I mean like how much do you really need to use it? *01:31:06* Yeah, I ended up having uh my red Gyarados Lake of Rage uh be my like a water HM slave that would have *01:31:11* Surf and whirlpool and waterfall and and then there's probably one more on top of it. *01:31:18* Maybe it could do strength. *01:31:24* It it was just *01:31:25* It's ridiculous. *01:31:26* Whirlpool is the one that's too far in this game. *01:31:27* Whirlpool is like, okay, waterfall and surf at least they serve a practical use in combat. *01:31:30* Whirlpool, we've gone too far here. *01:31:34* Super situational. *01:31:37* Like it it's the *01:31:38* Uh Blackthorne gym and it's the Whirl Islands and that's like about it. *01:31:40* Yeah. *01:31:44* And then there's I mean what's even stranger still is like flash is needed at times in this game. *01:31:44* And it's a TM. *01:31:50* Like you can eventually I think you can go buy I think Flash is one of the TMs you can buy freely in the Mart. *01:31:52* So they do do it that way that you won't ever *01:31:59* be in a position where you don't have a Pokemon that has Flash somehow. *01:32:02* So that's at least nice. *01:32:05* Yeah, there's like weird situational TMs like that. *01:32:07* And obviously you can continue to learn them. *01:32:10* The one guy will teach it to any Pokemon in the forest, which is *01:32:12* Fine, I guess, but it's yeah, those are even flash flash is the one that's a little weirder. *01:32:16* Headbutt's a little bit more just for just for fun, if you want to try to get certain Pokemon that way. *01:32:21* But if you want a Heracross *01:32:26* Yes, if you want a Heracross. *01:32:28* Um or is is do you get spinner axe that way or is that another one? *01:32:30* Probably and Pinecos. *01:32:33* Yeah. *01:32:36* Mm-hmm. *01:32:36* Yeah. *01:32:37* But I think yeah, that's clearly far and away like one of the best things that the newer Pokemon games have done is just like *01:32:37* It'll be a random thing in the world or with this uh Scarlet and Violet. *01:32:43* It's your legendary Pokemon buddy. *01:32:47* Like you'll get around the world no problem. *01:32:48* It won't take up your moves. *01:32:50* But that's a a struggle with the earlier games for sure *01:32:51* I did want to ask you guys, I brought this up before, what you thought about the new Pokemon that are introduced in Gin 2 in a general sense, because I think we spoke about this before the show. *01:32:56* briefly, but I mentioned that I think this new Pokedex kinda sucks. *01:33:06* And I think it gets better over the years, because they start adding new evolutions to some of the Pokemon that were introduced in this generation. *01:33:11* Like I think of uh *01:33:19* Or like Sneasel eventually gets like an evolved form and just there's a bunch of like one-off introduced Pokemon in this game. *01:33:21* Basically, I guess that's my point, is that there is a lot of Pokemon introduced in this game. *01:33:27* That don't evolve within this game and then later that Game Freak went back and was like, well, hey, maybe we should add new forms to these Pokemon. *01:33:32* So by current standards, I don't think they're bad, but *01:33:39* At the time, like, they weren't great. *01:33:43* I also think the Pokedex lacks a ton of variety. *01:33:46* There are only a couple fire options, there are a couple water options that I can think of. *01:33:49* I there's just there's not a good mix of things here and it feels like two There are a lot I really like in this gin. *01:33:55* Like Hound Doom is a I'd love I love my Houndoom. *01:34:03* Tyranitar, awesome. *01:34:06* I did not have one this time, but Tyranitar is like one of my favorite Pokemon ever. *01:34:07* Great Pokemon. *01:34:11* Awesome. *01:34:11* I think the ones that are truly good in this gen are some of the best Pokemon ever, and they're some of my favorite. *01:34:12* But I do not think the new Pokemon introduced overall are that great. *01:34:17* And I think this is something that took until this playthrough for me to really click and realize that maybe I don't like Gin 2's *01:34:22* Pokemon as much as I once once thought I did. *01:34:30* I think that's fair. *01:34:33* I wonder how much that has to do with, you know *01:34:34* uh the you know 2000 gold and silver release and how much more can we cram in. *01:34:38* Uh if you want a real fun deep dive, like look into the reports of like when someone you know cracked open a beta of gold and silver and you see like *01:34:42* how Pokemon looked differently or Pokemon that they were considering including, like Leafeon at one point was going to be considered. *01:34:51* for the original gold and silver game. *01:35:00* Like crazy stuff. *01:35:02* But you're right. *01:35:03* I mean, just uh scroll through the national Pokedex at your whim, and there's a lot of trash here. *01:35:04* Like who's honestly raising a hopip? *01:35:08* Yeah, like Skiploom and Jumpluff are nothing. *01:35:11* Suncern is one of the babiest of baby Pokemon, and it's not even a baby Pokemon. *01:35:15* Like pretty sure it's like one of the lowest *01:35:20* stat added up all together, like just one of the weakest, period. *01:35:23* Uh and even the ones that are cool, you're you touched on it earlier, Logan, like there's *01:35:28* just obscure odd ways to go about getting them and is it really worth it in the end? *01:35:33* You mentioned you had one of my favorite I love Amphros. *01:35:39* Amphros is one of my favorite electric types ever. *01:35:42* It's so good. *01:35:44* It's I I I I recommended Max to get it and I don't think he did. *01:35:45* I I love Amphros though. *01:35:49* Is that the thing in the lighthouse? *01:35:50* Yes. *01:35:53* Yes. *01:35:53* It evolves from Mareep. *01:35:54* So you run into Mareep just south of Violet City, and it's a tough go on the early part of its moveset. *01:35:55* It's *01:36:02* Thundershock for a long time. *01:36:03* I generally teach a fluffy headbutt and you do okay with that for a little while. *01:36:05* Uh but then it's yeah, once you hit Amphro's like easy goins *01:36:10* Because as you mentioned, like it's for an electric type, it's that or Pikachu. *01:36:15* And that's it. *01:36:21* Like I'm looking through like there's really no other *01:36:22* Electric type that's viable. *01:36:26* That's why I ran with Raichu this game because usually I always get Amphros and I was like, why do I always get Ampros? *01:36:27* And then I quickly realized like there's not a there's not another option. *01:36:33* I guess uh *01:36:37* Lantern, but then you have to do it. *01:36:38* Shinchiao and Lantern, yep. *01:36:39* But then you have uh that's part water type as well, and I already had a Feraligator. *01:36:41* I was like, I don't want to double up in that regard, so *01:36:44* Yeah. *01:36:47* Are you really getting an elikid? *01:36:47* Are you gonna catch Ryko in the wild? *01:36:48* Well yeah, that I guess that's a bit that's a big element of the game too, which I was about to invoke, is the babies. *01:36:50* Like they've got the new form I I feel like that's another strange thing that they did in this generation is like *01:36:55* uh new forms of previously existing Pokemon, like let's make Pikachu have a baby, let's make uh Clefairy have a bla a baby, and Igglibuff is a early form of Jigglypuff, but even *01:37:01* Even goes the other way too, like we mentioned Belossum and Slow King. *01:37:12* And I like I like these Pokemon. *01:37:17* They're fine, but it it feels *01:37:18* For as creative and as inventive as this generation is in a lot of ways, especially from a gameplay standpoint, like with bringing Kanto in and stuff, I feel like the actual Pokemon are not *01:37:21* that well thought out in some regards. *01:37:31* It's just very it's very low level ideas that they had. *01:37:34* Um *01:37:39* But the wholly new Pokemon in the in the decks I like, but there's just not enough of them, I fe I feel like. *01:37:40* Chief among them, lack of creativity. *01:37:46* Porygon 2. *01:37:48* Yes. *01:37:50* Yes, precisely. *01:37:51* I So for me a lot of this blurs, right? *01:37:54* This is kind of just that early Pokemon light. *01:37:57* So some of these feel like they've been around forever. *01:38:01* I know the core 151 fairly well, which is I guess what helps me delineate which is *01:38:03* not in that core original set. *01:38:08* But I think it says a lot that I think by circumstance, not necessarily desire *01:38:12* Four of my six on my team are Gen 1 Pokemon. *01:38:18* Yes. *01:38:22* Mewtwo I uh sought out solely for the level and the power. *01:38:23* Gengar's the one I desired. *01:38:26* But the other two were from the first gen uh for alligator, the starter. *01:38:28* And I also think looking at the Elite Four, espe the first time around, if you fight the Elite Four a second time, they have some some diamond and pearl and ruby sapphire in there too, but *01:38:32* a solid chunk, I'd say at least half, if not more, of the Elite Four's Pokemon are from the first gen, through each set of them. *01:38:41* And Lance is all Gen One when you finally fight him uh all the way around. *01:38:50* So *01:38:55* It kind of feels like what we can see today, we were talking before the show about *01:38:57* You know, there's like Galarian Meowth and Alone Meowth. *01:39:05* Well, back here in Gold and Silver, it was what you were talking about. *01:39:08* Here's the pre-evolution of Pikachu or Jigglypuff. *01:39:13* And *01:39:16* Here's new Eevee evolution, the Eevee Lucians, which would go on to be a tradition forever at this point. *01:39:17* But it just doesn't, there's not a lot of powerful standout *01:39:23* Gen 2 Pokemon, I think, at least in the early game, uh, for sure. *01:39:28* Well, I want to go back and I mentioned before that there's not in a lot a lot of evolved forms. *01:39:34* in this Pokedex. *01:39:38* And now that I'm looking at the Pokedex off to the side, I just want to name some off quickly that don't evolve. *01:39:39* And it's just crazy. *01:39:44* APOM eventually later gets an evolve form, but didn't at the time. *01:39:45* Stantler. *01:39:49* Uh we've got *01:39:50* Uh Giraffe Rig, which is finally getting a new evolve form in Scarlet and Violet twenty years later. *01:39:52* Uh we've got Smergle, we've got this is where it gets very strange to me, is like with the water types specifically. *01:39:58* We've got Quillfish, which doesn't evolve. *01:40:04* We've got Corsila which doesn't evolve. *01:40:06* We've got Rimerade which doesn't evolve. *01:40:08* We've got Octillery which doesn't evolve. *01:40:10* Or wait, doesn't Rim. *01:40:12* Rimmerade evolves. *01:40:13* Yeah. *01:40:16* But like just so many one-off Pokemon, Delibird, Glygar, uh Antine. *01:40:17* Skarmory, Mantine, yeah, eventually later gets one. *01:40:24* again, with the water types not really evolving though. *01:40:27* It's just it's so uh Murkrow doesn't evolve until later. *01:40:30* Sneasel, mischievous. *01:40:34* It's just it it's incredibly common throughout this generation, I feel like more so than a lot of others, that it's just *01:40:36* chock full of Pokemon that don't evolve for one reason or another. *01:40:42* And again, late the later this changes, I'm aware of that, but at the time it was it's kind of *01:40:46* Odd? *01:40:51* I I I don't I don't know. *01:40:52* Super fair observation, Heracross, Shuckle, Wabafett, I *01:40:54* Yes. *01:41:02* It's ridiculo Dunsparce, Gleiger. *01:41:02* That is an interesting observation. *01:41:05* Like you can go on and on. *01:41:07* And then you can also look at uh, you know, when they do Ruby and Sapphire, that's where they start to fall prey to, well *01:41:08* We need a Caterpie replacement. *01:41:15* So that's where you get the Wrumple. *01:41:17* So it's it's a Pokedex in this game that it's like it's trying to do *01:41:19* New things, new ideas, not just say, well, let's do the new version of this Kanto Pokemon. *01:41:24* I think that'd be an issue with, you know, generations to come. *01:41:31* But at the same time, then *01:41:34* the ideas they came up with aren't that interesting. *01:41:36* And I think this kind of does tie back in with what we said before at the very top of the show, which is this game wants to be a sequel. *01:41:40* And so I feel like that influenced a lot of ways in which they developed *01:41:47* the Pokemon that appeared in this gen. *01:41:50* Like, well, we don't need another worm type Pokemon. *01:41:52* We've already got Caterpie. *01:41:55* We'll just put Caterpie in the game. *01:41:56* We'll just put Weedle in the game and *01:41:58* Uh but the ideas that they then had in turn was, hey, what if uh Polyworld evolved into a Polytoad? *01:42:00* Or what if uh like they just create these different one-off evolutions of Pokemon that already existed or they introduce Pokemon that didn't evolve *01:42:05* Again, it's just it's not a problem on its own, but I guess I look at what future Pokedexes did, and then I come back to this one, I'm like, this is a very bizarre *01:42:13* lineup we've got here. *01:42:22* And clearly they realized it was a problem too, because again, half the Pokemon or more that we've mentioned have since received of all forms, like even Giraffe Rig. *01:42:24* They *01:42:31* went back to the well twenty two years later and they're like, hey, we should add uh this this thing should evolve somehow. *01:42:32* What do we want to do with this now? *01:42:37* So It's great fodder for nostalgia. *01:42:38* Yeah, like, you know, in the Legends Arceus game. *01:42:41* Quillfish has an evolution. *01:42:43* Like who would have thought *01:42:45* Is it tied to a weird, you know, game that's set in the distant past, I I guess, but it's different little points that you can pick out. *01:42:47* Yeah, for sure. *01:42:55* Max, I want to come back to you with something you mentioned earlier. *01:42:57* Um, and Peter, I think you mentioned this as well, which is the phone. *01:43:00* Uh this is a core pillar of this game, and it's something that's in this game a lot. *01:43:03* What did you want to talk about with the phone specifically, Max? *01:43:09* I wanna first thank you both because if you had not requested that we change our group chat image to Joey and his batata. *01:43:12* and then require me to get his phone number. *01:43:22* I'm quite sure that I would have said no to most phone numbers. *01:43:26* Uh but you said to t make sure to get his phone number and then it just started the habit of saying yes to everybody *01:43:30* And lo and behold, while we're playing the game, Peter, you come out of the blue and go, guess what I learned today? *01:43:37* Yeah. *01:43:45* The way this the grind that we have talked about, the alleviation, the the release valve on that grind is rebattling trainers. *01:43:46* They will call they're free at certain times or they'll call you up and say, Hey, I want to fight again. *01:43:56* I'm stronger. *01:44:01* Let's, you know, meet on route 38 and we'll fight again. *01:44:02* But it doesn't tell you outright, I should say. *01:44:06* I mean, I guess it's implied, but it doesn't tell you outright that they are stronger, significantly stronger, and give you more XP. *01:44:11* And you can fight them. *01:44:19* And then that carries over to the gym leaders, which is a cool fun thing to surprise like this is how you could find out. *01:44:20* And then you can battle the gym trainers over and over and over and over and over again. *01:44:26* And they're at a pretty high solid level and you get a bunch of XP that way. *01:44:30* But the grind solution is to just live by this world's schedule. *01:44:34* Or to change your DS's internal clock. *01:44:41* Yes. *01:44:44* And that's what I did a lot of the time, especially when I was able to rebattle all of the trainers. *01:44:45* There was a fun, you know, collecting all of those. *01:44:51* But *01:44:55* I feel like they've I actually didn't realize until I was thumbing through the strategy guide for gold and silver, but the phone was a mechanic in the original versions of these games, just not as *01:44:56* in depth as I've at least bel again, I just saw it in the guide. *01:45:07* But I feel like Heart Gold and Soul Silver have an over-reliance on the phone and leveling up that way by battling people. *01:45:11* to the point uh to a detriment. *01:45:20* I do think it makes this world feel alive. *01:45:22* I thought a lot of Majora's Mask, where people have schedules, they do things. *01:45:27* This is similar in that way, not necessarily of come here at this time and do this quest, although I think there's at least one th maybe in this game that does that. *01:45:32* But it's, you know *01:45:40* I'm a gym trainer and I'm only available at in this day at this time, I'm free, we can fight whenever. *01:45:42* I like that that makes the world feel lived in and alive and *01:45:48* these people are leveling up. *01:45:52* It's fun seeing trainers you fought before have new evolved Pokemon of what they had before or bigger, stronger teams. *01:45:53* But at the cost of you leveling up super slow by battling just regular trainers or wild Pokemon, I think is a loss there. *01:46:00* I'm in the opposite camp because I mentioned this to you guys, but I did not get any of the phone numbers this time other than youngster Joey because I kept wanting to hear about his top tier Ratata Tales. *01:46:09* And until Peter messaged us, uh, which you kind of mentioned, Max, Peter messaged us in our Discord group while we were playing this game and he's like, hey, you guys should get the phone numbers because you can go back and *01:46:21* This is how it g a great way to get XP. *01:46:31* I was like, oh, I have been declining all the phone numbers because I don't like hearing that bring, bring, bring, bring. *01:46:33* Because it's constant. *01:46:40* It's so annoying. *01:46:41* And so I guess that's like you said, Max, it is very core to the game and core to leveling up, but it's so obnoxious. *01:46:42* And so I've played this game before and I know how annoying it is, and so I intentionally *01:46:49* Told everybody no. *01:46:54* And then when I get later into the game, I'm like, why don't I have a thunderstone yet? *01:46:55* Huh? *01:46:59* Let me look up how to get this. *01:46:59* Accept so-and-so's phone number and maybe they'll call you. *01:47:00* I'm like, oh great. *01:47:03* So it I got about halfway through the game and I realized that that was a very poor choice. *01:47:05* But again, as somebody who's played the game before, I know it's an obnoxious system, so I just did not want it to be *01:47:11* in front of my face this entire play through, but that was a bad call, apparently. *01:47:17* No pun intended. *01:47:22* And that's fair. *01:47:25* And, you know, my shock with it, why I had to tell you both, was because *01:47:26* Now playing this game as an adult where time is at a premium, like I kinda like, what is the way to get past the stupid, like, why is Kanto so underleveled, but yet *01:47:31* the challenges still rise with levels. *01:47:43* How how can you ameliorate this? *01:47:45* Will you look up online like, did you know you can get gym leader phone numbers and rematch them whenever you want, endlessly? *01:47:48* Okay, news to me, so like I I it's like I guess this is going to be helpful. *01:47:55* But even then, like I'm glad the internet exists because I would not have known to *01:48:00* Go to Daisy Oak's house in Pallettown and every day from 3 to 4 p. *01:48:06* m. *01:48:13* You can massage one of your Pokemon, and if you do it enough times, maybe five or so times, that will give you permission *01:48:14* For her to give you Blues phone number. *01:48:22* Some of the ways to get some of these trainers' phone numbers and at the weird, quirky times, like *01:48:25* Yeah, it is nice and it feels lived in and on a schedule, but I'm glad the internet exists as a resource that is *01:48:31* easily verifiable for some of these things. *01:48:39* I don't underst I don't understand how people would figure this stuff out unless it it was data mined. *01:48:41* And apparently they did back then, but *01:48:45* Like it's it's so strange. *01:48:48* Like we're we're recording this, I mean this will date the show a bit, but we're recording this right before Scarlet and Violet comes out. *01:48:50* And the ROM for that game has leaked. *01:48:55* And I don't know if you're aware of that, either of you are aware of this. *01:48:57* But one of my friends who's kind of been keeping up with it has said that everybody has found a Pokemon in the game, but they don't know how it evolves, but they know it does evolve. *01:49:00* And so the community is currently *01:49:07* putting their heads together trying to figure out oh how does this evolve? *01:49:09* What do we do? *01:49:13* I I've heard about this and I don't know if it's this is the one, but I've heard of *01:49:14* The the way it may be, and again, could be dated, because I came across like some random comment somewhere. *01:49:19* It's a dolphin Pokemon. *01:49:25* Okay. *01:49:27* And apparently, the way that it may be *01:49:28* As of is how it's known about you know a week or so before the game launches. *01:49:31* Because you have multiplayer in this game, oh you *01:49:36* Maybe evolve or have it level up past level 38 in the presence of its already evolved form. *01:49:42* So one of the other players have it like has it *01:49:52* That's crazy. *01:49:54* So so that like it knows that this is a possibil Sounds super weird, but yeah, like it it's gonna take like *01:49:55* Weird data mining or like do you remember those like achievements in multiplayer games from back in the day where it's like you get this achievement from playing against somebody who has this achievement? *01:50:03* It's like what? *01:50:12* That kind of thing. *01:50:13* It's that kind of thing for sure. *01:50:14* And is it their way of trying to recapture the uh the the playground magic, but maybe in a more digital age? *01:50:15* It's possible. *01:50:22* I yeah, weird stuff like that. *01:50:23* Uh also like what Legends Arceus had a weird *01:50:25* evolution too where it's like you had to basically solve a puzzle that was only found in a book in the library and can a clave in Brilliant Diamond Shining and Pearl. *01:50:28* gave you the solution there so that you take it to the Legends Arceus game and like that's the only way that you can evolve this Pokemon. *01:50:39* So uh really weird stuff there *01:50:47* But point being overall, for me to have learned about this system finally, years later as an adult because I just didn't want to spend the time *01:50:50* and then still spend way too much time battle after battle after battle just grinding it up. *01:51:00* It makes it frustrating that this is such a core part of getting to red like levels *01:51:06* And uh just when you don't have all the time in the world for it, honestly. *01:51:13* It I it feels like Animal Crossing cheating in a way, it's just like I've I suddenly it's Sunday at four AM because this is the only time I can battle this one trainer, but *01:51:18* Really, it's Tuesday afternoon and you're just grinding over and over for the gym leaders. *01:51:27* Some of the trainers, though, do have like multiple teams over time. *01:51:31* Like it's not just the one team over and over. *01:51:35* And so I do *01:51:38* kind of back into that world building and that playground energy is like, oh, do you know if you do this or do that? *01:51:40* But it is it's cool that the world feels alive and that people have kind of a *01:51:46* A vendetta or like a they want to get back at you. *01:51:50* They want to prove they're better than you. *01:51:53* It's it's I wrote down in my notes it's an early concept of the Nemesis system from those Shadow of Mordor games and stuff. *01:51:54* It's fighting *01:52:00* The same people over and over. *01:52:02* And that feels cool. *01:52:04* It's one of the payoffs in the game that I was talking about at the top of the show that just feels rewarding to come back to over and over. *01:52:05* I just wish *01:52:12* And maybe it's because we were on a time crunch to a certain degree, but I just wish there was a better way to level up and enjoy this world that they've built. *01:52:13* I don't know if it's as as much that we're on a time crunch, but I think any game that's 60 to 100 hours nowadays, I just cannot like this would have been the same. *01:52:22* This lengthy nowadays. *01:52:33* I'm like, oh boy. *01:52:34* Wow. *01:52:36* Like my sweet spot for games nowadays is like five to six hours. *01:52:36* I'm like, yes, cool. *01:52:40* Thank you. *01:52:41* Yeah. *01:52:41* Like I'm about to play Modern Warfare 2 and people have been like, it's too short. *01:52:42* And I'm like, that sounds wonderful to me. *01:52:45* Very good. *01:52:47* Let's go. *01:52:48* Dive into it. *01:52:48* What a blessed life they must lead. *01:52:50* I wrote down my times. *01:52:52* Johto took me thirty-one and a half hours to beat the Elite to get through and to beat the Elite Four and to beat Reddit *01:52:54* It took double it doubled that time at fifty-nine hours essentially. *01:52:59* So it was a sixty-hour game roughly for me, all in all. *01:53:03* It's *01:53:06* Long. *01:53:07* This is probably the longest one we'll play for our entire season, I imagine. *01:53:08* Um that was one thing I kept having to tell you because I knew you were having some difficulty as we were playing this one. *01:53:12* You're like, oh, when's it stop? *01:53:18* I'm like *01:53:19* If we just get through this one, Max, you're good. *01:53:19* Like the rest won't be this long. *01:53:21* It's okay. *01:53:23* Mm-hmm. *01:53:23* The one other big pillar of this game that I feel like we need to talk about is the music. *01:53:24* And I don't I'm curious to see how much Max has to say about this. *01:53:28* Because I messaged you at one point when we were playing it. *01:53:31* I was like, oh my gosh, this track is so good and this track is so good and listen to this. *01:53:34* Oh man, this this so the music is so good. *01:53:38* Max is just like, yep, it sounds like Pokemon music. *01:53:40* So I wonder I I I I I imagine for Peter and I, it's very hard to disconnect our nostalgia from this, uh these games with their soundtracks. *01:53:44* That being said, I do think *01:53:55* These might be the best games in the entire series when it comes to soundtrack like this and the OG games Fire and Blue or Fire Red and *01:53:57* Red and blue, yellow, like I know it's very common to say that the originals are some of the best. *01:54:05* All Pokemon soundtracks are good in their own ways, but I really do feel like this might be *01:54:10* The peak. *01:54:15* There's some very very good tracks in this game all the way through up until Fighting Red at the end, which is *01:54:16* An excellent track. *01:54:24* Um I I don't know I don't know how you feel about it within the context of the larger series, Peter, but I really do feel like this might be one of the high points. *01:54:25* I agree with you on the whole. *01:54:33* It's interesting, you know, once the 3DS games come along with X and Y and you have uh music streaming technology that you can really expand the instruments that are available, like that kind of opens up a bit more. *01:54:35* And then it feels like for the last *01:54:46* couple games like they feel almost a little beholden to kind of go with these you know the simpler melodies you can't do too much *01:54:48* uh certain tracks aside, I think in you know Sword and Shield it was really neat to kind of do the crowd chant singing stuff going along, uh you know, uh Marnie's battle with you know Team Yell. *01:54:57* Some fun stuff that they can do there, and that's nice with the improved music technology. *01:55:11* But I think this is more than any other remake, I think. *01:55:15* taking a reverence for like the simple chip tune music and like what can we do with the expanded DS instruments that are available to us. *01:55:21* I think you're right the champion battle theme, because it's it's the same theme like you're battling, you know, Lance and Red, it's the same theme that's used, but *01:55:31* It's a great track from the original Gold and Silver, but it's taken to the next level in the dramatic epic feel with uh the Heartgold Soul Silver version. *01:55:40* The fact that in Heart Gold Soul Silver they have special themes for the Lugia fight and the Ho-O fight. *01:55:53* And they're incredible. *01:56:02* Like, I think Go Ichinose uh composed both of them and like at least for the Lugio one, he's like, yeah, this is like the one I'm most proud of. *01:56:03* Like so much went into this track that like *01:56:11* It's ridiculous. *01:56:14* Um even things like National Park, where it's a little it's it's a soothing piece in its, you know, 8-bit chipt tune. *01:56:16* But then it gets converted in this just lovely piano that just hits you out of nowhere and you're struck by the beauty. *01:56:26* I think it improves things like Echo Teak Town. *01:56:34* You really get the sense of the old *01:56:37* Japanese town feel with the instruments that they can bring in. *01:56:39* Heartgold SoulSilver. *01:56:41* Um, it's it's a smaller Pokemon soundtrack than I think a lot of these more recent games are. *01:56:43* There's just a lot of tracks in these *01:56:49* These new games, they have the space for it. *01:56:51* They can accommodate that. *01:56:53* But I think this game does it best with the nostalgia and the reverence for *01:56:55* These simple tracks from Gold and Silver at the end of the day. *01:57:01* Yeah. *01:57:04* They may be doing some s some neat things with the the melody and all that, but *01:57:05* You take the cave theme of like the the dark uh dark cave and ice path. *01:57:10* It's it's a neat theme for, you know, its its simplistic *01:57:16* time, but then the way it gets elevated for the different types of instruments and the reverb effects that get played, it it's it's really amplifying these tracks to *01:57:21* their ultimate level that they could at the time. *01:57:33* Uh you mentioned Ice Path, which is one of my favorites. *01:57:36* I think that's got such a distinct vibe. *01:57:38* I also have always been really uh prone to loving Azalea Towns theme for some reason. *01:57:40* It's one of my favorites in the game. *01:57:45* Uh *01:57:47* Yeah, it it is a very simplistic soundtrack, but I just think the melody work, like you said, is very it's some of the there are more earworms in this soundtrack than a lot of the other Pokemon games. *01:57:48* Um I mean the the team rocket theme. *01:57:59* Yes. *01:58:01* Especially when you're taking over the top da da da like it's it really gets you. *01:58:02* Uh the game corner is ridiculous. *01:58:06* And that's a shame because I think in Gen 4 like there were *01:58:09* uh betting regulations that like had to change up what the game corner was so it's not as important but it's still also the lucky channel theme but there's yeah it's *01:58:12* A lot of great stuff. *01:58:25* Even the battle tracks. *01:58:26* I, you know, partial to the the gym leader theme in this game. *01:58:27* The rival theme is one of the best rival battles. *01:58:31* Uh there's just a lot of great stuff here on the soundtrack for sure. *01:58:34* Max, do you have anything uh else to say other than Pokemon music? *01:58:38* Peter named the two specific songs that I had down. *01:58:43* Um I'm gonna *01:58:48* Euritique? *01:58:50* Ekritique. *01:58:52* Akritique. *01:58:53* I said as a bop. *01:58:54* Windy old Japanese town strings were the words I wrote. *01:58:55* I guess that makes a sentence. *01:58:59* And then National Park. *01:59:00* piano as my kind of calm tune. *01:59:02* I found it interesting. *01:59:04* Uh someone I know all three of us are familiar with, Insane in the Rain. *01:59:06* He has a ton of Pokemon covers and I'm definitely going to bring him up in our Diamond and Pearl. *01:59:09* episode for sure, but when I looked up his gold, silver crystal tracks, uh, National Park was one of his few ones from this gen, and I think *01:59:14* That's a testament to this particular song in general. *01:59:24* And then I also just wrote down epic battle themes. *01:59:27* I mean it some of these songs go. *01:59:30* hard. *01:59:32* Um and it just matches the energy of the moment as well. *01:59:33* I s the championship battle in and Brad in particular. *01:59:37* The the drama is there and it duh it adds and makes it feel like a real a really important battle, which it is. *01:59:42* So I the that's really what I wrote down for this music. *01:59:49* It's it's good. *01:59:53* One other track I want to shout out, and it's it's a track that has no reason being as catchy as it is, because it's such a a minor character, but Useen's theme *01:59:55* When he's this random dude that shows up and he's all about finding Suicune. *02:00:09* But why does he have this like big dramatic flair of a theme and it's *02:00:14* It he shows up and then he comes out of nowhere, but yeah, you put a lot of love in this random theme. *02:00:19* Alright, go off *02:00:25* Yeah, Useen's uh continued appearance throughout the game is uh I I like that they it continue to incorporate that stuff from because he's from Crystal, correct? *02:00:26* Crystal, yes, yes. *02:00:36* Yeah, I had never *02:00:37* played Crystal as a kid. *02:00:38* That was always the one my friends were like, oh play crystal. *02:00:39* I'm like, I don't know, I already got I already got silver. *02:00:41* I'm good. *02:00:43* UCN's music is great too. *02:00:44* And his his involvement in the game as a whole is a little *02:00:45* awkward at times and just kinda out of nowhere. *02:00:49* But yeah, he's got he's got a great he's got a great theme there. *02:00:51* All right. *02:00:55* Well, let's wrap up this episode in the way that we always do with each episode here on Chapter Select, which is talk about this game's legacy, which I think *02:00:55* There's a lot behind this one. *02:01:04* I think for me, uh kind of bring it full circle with what we said at the top and kind of how Peter kicked off the conversation. *02:01:07* Pokemon is now 25 years old. *02:01:13* Uh 26 years old, I guess, this year. *02:01:16* And I still feel like. *02:01:19* This game, either Gold and Silver or Heart Gold and Soul Silver, whatever, regardless, I feel like this is still the one everybody points to is like, oh yeah, that's the best one. *02:01:22* Like that's like to this day, if somebody asks me what the best one is, I'd probably knee-jerk reaction would say this one. *02:01:30* We'll see if that remains true once we finish playing through all of the games this season. *02:01:36* Um, but even Max knew that coming into this, this is the one that everybody says is the best. *02:01:42* This is the one that everybody always highlights. *02:01:45* And I think that is this game's legacy in a lot of ways. *02:01:48* It is the *02:01:52* Pokemon game if you were ever going to get somebody to play one single Pokemon game from any point in the series. *02:01:54* Is it the most accessible one nowadays, like we've talked about? *02:01:59* Not really. *02:02:02* There's a l I there's there's a lot of other games that I think could better show people *02:02:03* what Pokemon is nowadays, but if you want to see what Pokemon once was and kind of the high point of the first *02:02:07* four to five gens, I would say. *02:02:16* It is this. *02:02:18* Um and I that's that's that's the most simple way of putting it. *02:02:19* This is just the best Pokemon game from the early days of what Pokemon was and how it became a worldwide phenomenon. *02:02:23* For sure. *02:02:30* And you're right. *02:02:31* It's a game that I think people reflect on, and it's defined by the two moments. *02:02:32* It's the Canto Reveal and it's the Red Fight *02:02:39* And in a way it's unfortunate that it it's so dependent on you having the previous experience with that original game. *02:02:44* Yeah. *02:02:51* Or else it's like *02:02:51* Oh okay, more stuff to do. *02:02:53* Okay, this random tough trainer at the otherwise it just doesn't mean as much, right? *02:02:55* But I think you're right, as we kind of all discovered, especially Logan, as we have that deep nostalgia. *02:03:00* It's one thing to say that this game is more than 10 years old to begin with and Pokemon has made great strides in quality of life since then. *02:03:07* But then the fact that they're going off of the framework of a game that is more than twenty years old and trying to stay true to that and not mess it up too much. *02:03:17* Um it really is telling in certain *02:03:27* regards there. *02:03:31* Um I think yeah looking at the the Pokedex for Johto, a great gold mine for generations to come, but *02:03:32* At the time, you're right. *02:03:40* It's it's trapped in, well, it's a sequel, but we don't have the refresh of generations to come where, oh *02:03:41* Pachorisu is just Pikachu like all the Pikachu clones, all the all the birds, all the bugs. *02:03:49* Like you we're gonna see with Scarlet and Violet, and you know, people who are listening to us when this launches can look back like *02:03:55* Yeah, well the Scarlet and Violet sure had all these kind of little early I mean LeChonc and he's he's the LeConc is the B-Doof *02:04:02* Fido is new browleth, I guess. *02:04:14* I don't know. *02:04:16* Yeah, so I mean it's it's just interesting to see, but *02:04:17* This game does have a legacy to it. *02:04:20* It's the best of what Pokemon was. *02:04:22* And I think that that is a good way to put it. *02:04:27* I had I had three points, I guess, for Legacy. *02:04:29* And as someone who's coming to this game now, I guess I I talked about it, you know, over ten years ago, but I didn't play it. *02:04:32* And so *02:04:39* The one the first one I wanted to mention, Peter's actually name-dropped him a few times in the episode, but Satory Wada, he made this game *02:04:41* what it is, you know, with the Canto reveal, with the red fight. *02:04:50* It was because of his work. *02:04:53* And I'm I'm gonna have a link in the show notes for it, but there is a an I wata ask interview about Heart Gold and Soul Silver. *02:04:55* That I read before the show and and pulled some quotes and stuff, but I highly recommend you read it if you haven't, because what he did and what they were able to make *02:05:02* For gold and silver is incredible. *02:05:13* I mean he figured stuff out by printing out Game Boy source code and looking at it for a few days. *02:05:15* Like he's looking at raw source code and they figured out how to fit it all in. *02:05:20* It's incredible. *02:05:25* And I think that's a huge part of it. *02:05:25* It's not just this game and Pokemon Legacy, but Iwadas as well, who's incredibly important to the industry. *02:05:27* And then for myself, playing it today, you know, while it was hard and there were struggles to overcome, *02:05:35* It took me back to not necessarily playing Pokemon as a kid, although I think it does apply to Diamond and Pearl, but I I was printing out web pages with the gym leader schedules and writing on them. *02:05:44* I was making notes. *02:05:57* I had modern conveniences. *02:05:58* I had like a whole tab group of Cerebee links and pages and how to build my team and what moves on my iPad. *02:06:01* I'm using this as if I would have a notebook. *02:06:08* And I think *02:06:11* There's a magic to that that even as someone who didn't play this as a kid, I can be sucked back into those *02:06:12* habits of my youth of taking notes and digging in and really trying to figure out this game. *02:06:20* And there were times where I was like, I'm not gonna beat Red before we do the show. *02:06:28* Like I just can't do it. *02:06:32* It's too hard. *02:06:33* And when I sat down and did it, it f and I didn't think I was gonna win when I went into that fight. *02:06:34* I was I'm in the like mid-upper sixties, and he's in the eighties. *02:06:40* But I pulled it off, it felt incredible. *02:06:44* And I it's awesome. *02:06:48* And I I really think this is a RPG for the ages. *02:06:51* It's it's hard and it's grindy, but the world feels real. *02:06:53* And I think if we could go back to its prime where everyone had a DS, the Pokywalkers, the online connectivity was still there. *02:06:57* This world it would have the real world in the game would have extended to the real world outside with all your friends. *02:07:06* And I think that's something special. *02:07:12* It's an awesome game, even though it's tough as nails. *02:07:14* For sure. *02:07:17* And I do remember, and I can speak to this a little bit, but yeah, this game in its heyday when it was when this was the Pokemon game everybody was playing and there was online aspects, very good. *02:07:18* It is that much better than *02:07:28* We it it's been with our own playthroughs here in 2022. *02:07:31* So yeah, I I think this game if I have kids, I want them to play this game, I guess is what I'll say in the future. *02:07:35* So you gotta you gotta get Eloise playing some Pokemon Soul Silver or Heart Gold in the future, Max. *02:07:42* Uh that's a plan. *02:07:48* If if she wants to play video games, that's definitely the plan. *02:07:49* You've got the rose gold DS, maybe she'll be into that. *02:07:52* I might have to buy our own 'cause Abby kept her DS in immaculate condition. *02:07:55* It's like brand new. *02:07:59* I don't know if I want a kid touching it. *02:08:00* And I think that does it for Heart Gold and Soul Silver. *02:08:03* Thank you so much for listening. *02:08:06* You can follow the show on Twitter at Chapter Select. *02:08:07* You can follow Logan on Twitter at Moreman12 and his writing over at comicbook. *02:08:10* com. *02:08:15* You can follow myself on Twitter at Max Roberts143 and my writing over at maxfrequency. *02:08:16* net. *02:08:20* And you can follow Peter on Twitter at PeteSpeakeEasy and his work over on Original Sound Chat. *02:08:20* Great podcast. *02:08:26* I don't think you guys have done Heart Gold or Soul Silver yet, but you've done other Pokemon episodes that I've definitely listened to. *02:08:27* We'll date this, but uh tomorrow as of when we are recording this *02:08:34* Pokemon week is upon us, so you can go back and find an episode that will include not only Pokemon Heart, Gold, and Soul, Silver, but also Pokemon X and Y. *02:08:41* Oh, I that link will be in the show notes. *02:08:52* You definitely should check it out. *02:08:54* And there are other Pokemon episodes, and really, there are other episodes. *02:08:55* So you can check out Original SoundChat wherever you listen to your podcast. *02:08:59* And then thank you to our members who support us directly. *02:09:02* You can find out more by going to chapterselect. *02:09:05* com forward slash join. *02:09:07* And until next time, adios. *02:09:09* Chapter Select is a max frequency production. *02:09:12* Chapter Select is supported by you. *02:09:15* You can gain access to longer episodes and bonus content by going to chapterselect. *02:09:17* com forward slash join. *02:09:22* This episode was research, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *02:09:24* Season six is hosted by Logan Moore and myself *02:09:29* Season six is all about Pokemon. *02:09:32* For more on the season, go to chapterselect. *02:09:34* com forward slash season six. *02:09:37* You can follow the show at Chapter Select and check out previous seasons at chapterselect. *02:09:39* com *02:09:45*