# Chapter Select, [[S6E6 - Pokémon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- recording if they have like a bunch of Japanese games or something like that I'm usually I'm like okay they they they they know things they know like the like like no one has copies of like *00:00* I don't know, Silent Hill or Xeno Gears or like weird stuff like that. *00:12* Yeah. *00:18* That isn't usually pretty plugged in. *00:18* Um *00:21* But yeah. *00:24* This guy I was like, oh, he's got a fair amount of like no real game notable games here. *00:25* Maybe he's uh Was it on Mercari? *00:30* Uh no, it was on Facebook. *00:36* He lives down the street from me. *00:39* That's why I was like, I'll give you 60. *00:41* Because I could have just gone and like now. *00:42* Yeah. *00:46* Like he was like, oh, he's like he's like, oh, if we decide to meet up, we could just meet up at this like Walmart that's like two minutes away from my house. *00:47* Yeah, I keep I check Mercari like every morning and then probably every night just as cut. *00:55* I've I've enjoyed shopping on it uh a lot, especially *01:03* Considering some of the deals I've gotten, like the two Castlevania games, been like, oh, twenty bucks for both Lords of Shadow games, that's not terrible. *01:09* But now I'm now I get suspicious of things. *01:18* Like, here's a $17 copy of Simon's Quest for the NES. *01:21* I'm like, that doesn't seem right. *01:25* Simon's quest isn't very expensive. *01:27* It's like 20 bucks. *01:29* Yeah. *01:30* But I feel like it should be more. *01:31* I don't know. *01:36* No, it's it's really not. *01:37* Like I'm pretty sure that game. *01:38* Let me see *01:40* I've just seen good no, it's not expensive. *01:41* I checked. *01:43* Like, here's a good looking copy of Castlevania for the NES. *01:44* Simon's quest loosed $14. *01:48* 99 price charting. *01:49* Yeah. *01:51* So now that I have an NES in the house, I'm like, maybe I should get the Castlevania games. *01:53* Well there's only two. *01:58* Three, there's three. *01:59* Or three, there's three. *02:00* Three is a hard one. *02:01* It's not really oh like difficult or hard to find. *02:04* No, I mean like hard to find. *02:07* Not online at least. *02:10* I've seen it a couple times in the store. *02:11* It's just the more expensive one, like 50 bucks *02:12* Um's like 30-ish, right? *02:15* 30 to 40. *02:18* Yeah, around I saw it today actually for thirty bucks. *02:19* I was at a store today. *02:22* I was I went to a store to see if they could resurface my *02:24* Curse of Darkness and he said Oh. *02:28* Well cause I just put it on and like the FMV video at the beginning was kind of skipping. *02:33* So I just took that as a sign of *02:39* The game won't run. *02:41* I didn't try the game. *02:42* But he said that the disc was already resurfaced and the machine they have now probably wouldn't help. *02:44* But they're getting a new one. *02:52* in like a month and a half, he said that that might be able to help. *02:54* And obviously I'm not in a rush or anything and who knows, the game may play just fine. *02:58* It's just maybe like the video file, you know, got is the worst part of it. *03:02* Because it doesn't look that scratched. *03:06* I was more interested in that he could tell it was resurfaced. *03:07* Like I want to know how he knew that. *03:10* That sounds bizarre, like *03:13* I don't I mean he could have taken my money, so Yeah like I it it doesn't seem like a disadvantage that he would tell me, ah, that what we have isn't gonna help very much. *03:17* Yeah. *03:29* I just it was more the his awareness of the like how the disc looked, which I don't know. *03:30* So but I was there and I was poking around and they had Castlevania One for 30 bucks and I was like *03:38* I kinda want it. *03:46* But then I go, I already own it on Switch and it's on my Mr. *03:47* Like I don't need *03:52* it but having it would be cool. *03:55* He did have, I don't know if he still has it, but he has a Famicom copy of Castlevania 3 for like 90 bucks. *03:57* And that's the good one because it has the good music. *04:03* Oh, like the Famicom improvement. *04:06* When you I'm gonna recommend that when you play that game you choose the Japanese version. *04:09* Yeah. *04:14* Because the music is entirely different. *04:15* I will be playing actually an English translated ROM of the Japanese version so I can understand it and then but also get the sick beats. *04:17* But I assume you'll just play on your *04:25* your copy of the collection, so play the Japanese one. *04:28* I kinda wanna still get like uh the Rwanda of Blood Vinyl. *04:31* But you should. *04:38* I mean I just can't spend the money right now. *04:40* I uh yeah, when I saw that was all of them *04:43* Okay. *04:48* Time to get the ones that the other two that I actually cared about. *04:49* I mean I would love to have all of them, obviously. *04:52* It's a cool I mean there's a I mean there are lots of things I would like to have. *04:55* I would like to have the full *04:58* Shin Magami Tensei vinyl lineup they just announced too. *04:59* That's really cool, I think. *05:03* But I've never played those games and I never really listened to the soundtracks. *05:05* Not too much at least, like here and there. *05:09* Oh hey. *05:11* Oh my *05:12* My copy of my vinyls have shipped today. *05:13* I need to I'm getting pretty pretty peeved the Mondo gang. *05:17* Still no reply to your email? *05:24* That's it. *05:26* Oh, they finally reached out to me. *05:26* Oh, okay. *05:28* Okay, there we go. *05:30* Five days ago. *05:31* I just totally missed it. *05:32* Oh, it must have gone to another one of my inboxes. *05:33* We're currently shipping all orders containing God of War Ragnarok. *05:36* We're processing and shipping as quickly as we can. *05:40* Thanks for your patience. *05:44* Okay. *05:46* Why is it taking I mean it just it's we i I guess it's just like I don't need it like ASAP, but it was just a little odd that they're like *05:47* May shipping and then it was like May came and went and they're like they sent me an email, they're like, June shipping and then now it's like nearing the middle of July and I hadn't heard anything since the start of June. *05:54* And so I was kinda like, What's going on here? *06:05* Like, cause *06:07* Wait, it's one of those things where it's like when they charge you up front, like I get a little bit more like Gimme mad or frustrated. *06:09* But yeah, it does get to a point where it's like, okay, y'all charged me like five months ago for this, kidding ya *06:18* Can we get it shipped out in a timely fashion like you've said you would here? *06:24* Like I so that's a little annoying. *06:28* I like that the Castlevanias were in stock and ready to ship. *06:30* That helped a lot. *06:34* Yeah, I like that too. *06:34* So and it's cool because I probably ordered the one that like everybody's ordered. *06:35* Yeah. *06:41* So like that mine's gonna take a little bit longer, I bet. *06:41* You ordered did you just order Rondo? *06:44* No, I got Rondo in Castlevania III. *06:46* I already had Symphony. *06:48* Okay. *06:50* So I have the three games soundtracks that I really care about. *06:50* And the cool thing is is the Rondo one is Rondo and Draculax. *06:54* So it's the Super Nintendo and *06:58* uh the PC engine and then Draco's curse is both the NES and the Famicom. *07:00* So I get the the better one and the the you know the NES one. *07:06* So *07:09* It's cool and the art on them is so good. *07:10* Those two in particular. *07:13* I love the art. *07:15* Well this is like the best Castlevania song, I think. *07:16* Like this song rips. *07:20* Oh, every version of Divine Bloodlines. *07:22* Yes. *07:24* Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. *07:25* Like this song is great. *07:28* And it's all because the PC engine is the best. *07:29* Is this the This is the first stage of Rondo. *07:35* Yeah, yeah, but is this the song that plays when you take over as Alocard? *07:39* No. *07:45* Uh I was thinking that song at the beginning of the castle when you're going in and killing all the wolves and you're like super powerful. *07:46* It's in Smash too. *07:52* Well of course it is. *07:53* I wonder if there's a there's gotta be a Netflix version of this, right? *07:54* Um maybe. *07:58* I don't know if they would have tapped it tapped into it because of uh it's a Richter. *08:00* Yeah. *08:06* That's why they may not have done it. *08:07* I almost pre-ordered this one today, the physical of this. *08:10* I'm trying to think of like some upcoming I I cannot believe you have got me into physical games. *08:13* What a bad time of mine. *08:19* Well, I think you've done it to yourself. *08:21* A little bit. *08:24* I mean I've obviously I've obviously always done like had some f I think it was going back and getting my games from home is what kind of like flipped a switch. *08:25* I was like, oh *08:35* I like this. *08:36* And then I was like, where did this game go? *08:37* Why why don't I have this game anymore? *08:39* When did I sell this game? *08:40* And then I started like thinking about all these games from my childhood. *08:42* I'm like, I need to get that back. *08:45* I need to get this. *08:46* I want this. *08:47* Yep. *08:48* What's weird though is like a lot of the things I have collected are things that like I don't know why I've collected in some sense. *08:51* Like Pokemon makes sense, but *09:00* Why do I have a full fire emblem set for 3DS now? *09:02* Like actually I do know I have those, and that's just price. *09:07* Like those will just go on. *09:10* And Xenoblade's gonna be expensive. *09:13* Yeah. *09:15* I have a full I have a full Xenoblade Switch collection. *09:15* I bought two the other day for $35. *09:18* I thought you bought you showed me a picture of all three of them. *09:20* I have Torna Golden Country *09:22* That is a prequel to two. *09:24* But it does not have two itself. *09:26* You didn't have the one that had both. *09:28* Oh, I thought that was the one with both in it. *09:30* I don't think it has both on it *09:33* I'm pretty sure there's a version of the thing. *09:34* It is a standalone thing. *09:36* Now you just gotta go out. *09:40* I saw Xenobrave Chronicles X today. *09:41* I had a sad realization today. *09:43* I was at my favorite game store, because he's the guy that had the disc buffer. *09:46* And the other day he posted a picture of Splinter Cell 3DS. *09:50* And I was like, like complete inbox. *09:54* I was like, ah, that's probably like 15 bucks, because I think the going complete inbox price for that is 10. *09:56* So at the store, $15 markup. *10:02* Or a $5 markup. *10:05* I was like, maybe I'll snag that while I'm there. *10:07* And I got there and it was 20 bucks. *10:10* I was like *10:12* And I've noticed this lately at that particular store. *10:13* His prices keep have kept climbing, and they're just more expensive than the other stores in the area. *10:16* Like he had Pandora tomorrow, uh Pandora Tomorrow and Double Agent. *10:22* for on Xbox, which is what I need to complete my Splinter Cell collection. *10:27* And he had both of those for I think around ten to twelve bucks. *10:31* And I stopped at another store on my way home because it was by the best buy I had to stop at. *10:34* And they had both those games in better condition for six dollars apiece. *10:39* And I was like, Yeah. *10:43* My guy's just getting more too expensive, which is a bummer. *10:45* I don't understand. *10:48* I've been trying to get a bead on like some of my local stores and how they price things out too. *10:49* And it but it's like the inverse at each so it's at each store. *10:54* It's some of the stores it is like *10:58* Because I I assume yours do this too, but they'll always have the price and then usually the date of when they got it in the shop and priced it as well. *11:01* Sometimes I see a price on the sticker, yes. *11:10* I don't know if that means I assume that's when they priced it. *11:13* A lot yes, that's when they got it in the store and priced it or whatever. *11:18* There's usually a date on most stickers at resale shops like that. *11:22* That's pretty common at most all of them. *11:25* Um *11:28* But sometimes I notice that the games that have been sitting in the store for a bit are are more expensive, but then other times they're *11:29* Like I less expensive. *11:39* Like sometimes the the games that have been in the shop let's say twelve to eighteen months are like cheaper at one store and it's like okay cool *11:41* Like try to find ones that have been sitting around the shop for a while that they priced back when this game wasn't as expensive. *11:48* But other times I'll find games that have been sitting around forever and it's like, why is this so expensive? *11:54* Like what on earth? *11:58* Like I don't know. *11:59* Like I showed you that *12:03* Balin Wonderworld that one time that was like 60 bucks, but it if you looked at the date, it'd been in there since like 2021. *12:05* It's like, okay, why does no one update the price on this? *12:11* Yeah. *12:13* I like I caught that with a copy of Max Payne 3 that I bought for PS3 last month. *12:14* There were two copies on the shelf. *12:20* I grabbed one and it was *12:21* fifteen, seventeen bucks and then the one that I bought was twelve bucks and just like they didn't price the other one and so I took the cheaper one obviously. *12:23* And they were both the same condition. *12:31* complete em box, all that jazz. *12:33* So pawn shops are weird about that though sometimes. *12:34* One time I took two the two copies of Sic Sekiro I found. *12:37* I was like, hey this one's like ten dollars more than this one. *12:41* I was like I'll buy them both but can I get them for the same price *12:43* And she's like, oh, well, this one we got in. *12:46* And we pay pawn shops are all about making money on what they paid for. *12:49* She's like, oh, well, this one we paid. *12:52* X amount of money for for this, so we're trying to make this profit, so we need it to be this price, so we can profit this much, blah blah blah blah blah *12:55* And so it's it's it all depends on what they buy it for a lot of times. *13:02* So when I go to pawn shops, I'll like make them offers like, can you do this? *13:06* And they'll like usually check in their computer to like what they paid for it to get it in the shop. *13:10* And usually they're like, yeah, okay, we can do that. *13:13* So it's really weird, but they don't they don't that's the one thing I do like about them. *13:15* They only care about making a profit on what they paid for it rather than like price charting things out. *13:20* Except the other day I did go to a pawn shop *13:25* Where they didn't have prices on any of their games and I asked the guy, I was like, how much is this worth? *13:27* And he's like, hold on. *13:31* And he pulled up pressure on like on the computer there. *13:31* I was like, dude. *13:34* I was like, I don't know. *13:35* And I just like like I wanted to just be like, okay, I'm out, buy. *13:37* Like *13:40* But I just kind of I I don't like making it making it clear that I'm trying to buy games to resell them sometimes, even though most people don't care. *13:41* Yeah, I just because then you're going they're going straight to the source and they're like, well, it's there's this much and I could probably mark it up that much and Yeah, I I like to try to kind of play dumb. *13:49* Not too dumb, but like *14:01* I don't know. *14:04* Yeah, I also don't want to stand in the middle of the state. *14:04* I didn't say, oh I'll give you 120 bucks because that's what it says on the internet. *14:12* I was like, I don't know *14:15* This much. *14:16* 60 bucks. *14:17* Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth a series exploring its evolution design. *14:19* And legacy for this season, we are covering the Pokemon franchise. *14:26* My name is Max Roberts and I am joined as always by Logan Moore. *14:30* Hi Logan *14:33* Alola, Max. *14:34* I should have said Alola. *14:36* Aloha, alola. *14:39* That's a very weird. *14:41* It's a very weird element of Sun and Moon. *14:42* Hawaiian, but not. *14:45* And it's I think I think what throws me off with the greeting is that it's Alola, which is fine. *14:46* It's a play on aloha, but then that's also the name. *14:52* Literal name of the region. *14:55* It'd be like if I approach you and I said United States! *14:56* It'd be like *14:59* What sounds like something that would happen in death stranding. *15:00* Like Yeah. *15:04* United States and the you know, someone and then wherever you're from on the internet. *15:06* It's a Kojima-esque idea for sure. *15:10* It feels like that. *15:12* It feels like that's *15:14* Sometimes. *15:15* I will say Alola to all of our members who support us over on Super Chapter Select. *15:16* For just 20 bucks a year, you can sign up, support the show directly, and get access to longer episodes, exclusive episodes, and bonus content. *15:23* For our Pokemon season, we've been duking it out, embracing the rivalry. *15:31* in true Pokemon fashion. *15:36* And uh we actually we gotta record our Ultrasun battle this this weekend, but for just twenty bucks a year. *15:37* You can sign up. *15:46* You can go over to listeningwithsuperpower. *15:47* com. *15:50* That's the new URL I bought just for this. *15:50* I like it a lot *15:53* I we still we s we still haven't done our battle, which I think if I'm correct, I I think this is the first time we've not done the battle *15:54* Uh or we've done the battle after recording because we might talk about our teams a little bit throughout this podcast, which might put us off to like strategies and game planning here. *16:02* I'll make a solemn s promise now. *16:14* I won't change my team. *16:17* It will I suppose impact. *16:19* Oh, I can't change. *16:20* I'm not changing I'm not changing my team either. *16:21* Alright, I promise. *16:23* My team's my six are locked in *16:24* Here. *16:26* So all right, cool. *16:27* Well, if you want to see how that battle shakes out, like we will eventually find out here, uh head over to listeningwith superpower. *16:28* com. *16:35* There you go. *16:36* That's a good URL. *16:36* You didn't even tell me about that. *16:37* I did, I did. *16:39* You said you liked it. *16:39* Actually you did tell me that. *16:42* There's been a lot of things going on in my and both of our *16:43* There's been a lot going on in both of our lives over the past month. *16:46* You're moving, you've got a nice little new setup now. *16:48* Yeah. *16:51* There's a toolbox behind you, which and a picture of Nathan Drake's face. *16:52* Oh, can you see? *16:56* Oh, you can't. *16:57* Yeah, that's my uh signed uncharted two. *16:58* poster a buddy gave me. *17:01* I got Neil Druckmann's signature on there. *17:03* The new full president of Naughty Dog. *17:06* Coming 2024. *17:09* I got Bruce's signature on there. *17:10* You gotta get Evan now. *17:13* He might be on there. *17:15* I actually haven't looked. *17:16* I'll have to check. *17:17* Naughty Dog things aside, Max, let's get into the typical rundown we do here for Pokemon Sun and Moon slash Pokemon Ultra Sun and Moon. *17:18* Because we're going to have a guest that we're going to bring on here momentarily. *17:27* Like every other, I think like every other game in the series we're doing this season, uh, Pokemon Sun and Moon was developed by Game Freak. *17:31* It released on the Nintendo 3DS family of systems. *17:39* The original release date for Sun and Moon was November 18th, 2016. *17:43* The Ultra versions then launched roughly one year later, exactly on November seventeenth, twenty seventeen. *17:48* Uh the game director was Shigeru Amori. *17:55* Uh the Ultra Director was Kaz Kazumasa Iwau, I think. *17:58* A wow? *18:03* A wow? *18:04* The producers, yeah. *18:05* The producers were Junichi Masuda, Shen Uai, uh Takado, Utsuny *18:06* Utsunomiya. *18:12* He's got son in his name, like the gamey markup. *18:13* Hitoshi Yamagami. *18:16* And then the ultra producers were once again Janichi Masuda, uh Takanori Sowa, Shigeru Amori, and Shin Uwai. *18:18* And the music was done by Minako Adachi, Go Ichinose, Jinichi Masuda, Tomoaki Ogo, Hitomo Sato, and Hideaki Kurota. *18:25* And then the same composers ended up doing the ultra games there. *18:36* I know you told me I didn't have to specify this with every single one, but I went ahead and did. *18:39* You did. *18:43* Actually, the producers were *18:43* all of the original producers plus the three there at the end as well. *18:46* Plus the three that I mentioned. *18:49* That was a oh I I think I just said Junichi Mazuya. *18:51* You did my *18:53* So it's it was a lot of producers on Ultra Sutton and Ultra Moon. *18:54* I mean they probably get broad credits, I would imagine, on the Ultra versions since they sketched out the broad structure of what this game is, essentially. *18:58* The Metacritic averages for the original Pokemon Sun was an eighty-seven out of one hundred. *19:06* It matches Moon and Ultra Moon as well, both versions. *19:12* So these are the same across the board. *19:15* Okay, interesting. *19:18* I've always wondered how *19:19* They differentiate this because I know it's not always the same with all of the ones that we've been doing throughout this season. *19:20* So Sun and Moon was an 87 out of 100 on Metacritic, Ultra Sun and Moon was an 84 out of 100 on Metacritic. *19:26* Which is I I don't know if we've done enough of these where there's like a definitive version afterwards. *19:33* You know, we've got platinum coming up that we're gonna talk about. *19:38* I know we've done emerald previously, but because we played *19:40* Um Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire. *19:43* We didn't really dive into that too specifically. *19:45* But I do find it a little bit fascinating that the definitive kind of it's not definitive, I guess, but *19:48* the expanded version we'll say has a lower rating. *19:55* Yeah. *19:58* It's interesting you say that 'cause it makes me think, is Heart Gold Soul Silver the definitive version of Gold Silver Crystal or is Crystal the definitive version of those games? *19:58* That's an interesting question. *20:08* That's a good question. *20:10* Well, I mean, just looking it up here as well. *20:11* Pokemon Sapphire, for instance, has an 82 out of 100 on Metacritic, and Emerald has a 76 out of 100. *20:13* Which is *20:20* Kind of interesting because that's how everyone talks about it. *20:21* Emerald's the one that everybody hypes up for sure. *20:25* Like that the user score on Emerald on Metacritic, just out of curiosity, not that user score ever matters on Metacritic of all platforms, but it's an 8. *20:28* 9. *20:35* So that's the one I feel like everybody hypes up and talks up. *20:36* So um curiously though, we'll be able to talk about this more *20:40* uh throughout the course of this episode because our guest we have brought on for the week, which we will introduce here, has actually played the base versions of the game, whereas you and I have played the Ultra versions instead. *20:44* So we'll be able to talk about this a little bit more here throughout the course of this episode. *20:54* And now we say Alola to our guest for this episode, which is Grant Callahan. *20:58* Grant, thank you for joining us to talk about Pokemon Sun and Moon. *21:04* No problem. *21:09* As we all know, I think Pokemon Sun and Moon slash Ultra Sun and Moon are the best Pokemon games, and we'll probably discuss that later, why I'm right. *21:10* I don't know about that. *21:21* You were definitely the person we had in mind when it came to tackling these games because you've *21:22* Sun the praises of Sun and Moon and Ultrasun Ultra Moon for as long as I've known you. *21:28* So Well, I think when we did this season, we asked Grant, like we knew up front Grant would probably do this with us and we asked him we're like *21:35* What do you want to do? *21:42* And we assumed he would say these two, and then he, of course, did say sun and moon. *21:43* So it wasn't much of a shock, but Grant, give us your broad *21:47* I guess history with these games and obviously you think they're the best as you've already said, but uh yeah, what's just your own history with these games and why do you generally like them so much? *21:52* Um I'm trying to think of when like they came out like within my lifetime. *22:05* It was 2016 and 17. *22:11* It was 2016. *22:12* Oh, so 17. *22:13* So very late college. *22:14* So, because I remember you came down for X and Y. *22:16* Yeah, that was I think like 2013 or 13. *22:21* It was 2013, I think. *22:25* Because Ruby and Sapphire were 14 *22:27* Yes. *22:29* Yeah. *22:30* So these were towards later in the college, and I remember reading about it every time like, oh new Pokemon game. *22:31* And I'm just like, show me what the Pokemon are like, because I want to pick out my team. *22:37* And as I was looking at it, the big things that drew my attention were the ultra beast. *22:42* And I first the first one was uh the legio. *22:47* It's the one I don't use, the jellyfish rock poison type. *22:51* But for the longest time I was like, wow, that that's cool. *22:56* I wonder what other ones they're gonna have. *22:59* And definitely the designs on those are part of my like favorite Pokemon of all time list. *23:01* But the big thing with it that *23:06* I like from playing it over I've at least played Sun and or Moon *23:08* Probably twelve times each version, at least, bare minimum. *23:17* Each? *23:21* Each. *23:23* Like. *23:23* So at least twenty-four times total with just the vanilla game. *23:24* I played Ultra like maybe f five times. *23:27* total between the two. *23:31* Do you have a complete DEX? *23:32* I do not, no. *23:35* I have never done a complete DEX because I was like, you know what? *23:36* That's that's too much. *23:40* I've never done a complete DEX in a game till *23:41* S. *23:45* I did violet, yeah. *23:46* I did violet complete decks. *23:47* And I did that within the first like one or two weeks it came out. *23:49* Um but the big thing that drew me in with this game was the ambitious *23:52* choice of not having traditional gems and having something different to work towards and then you still have your like elite four which I think is a good idea to always have like a big challenge at the end. *23:58* But just the idea of hey there's no gems here. *24:10* What are we going to do? *24:14* And they give you like different things. *24:15* Do I think they're all masterpieces? *24:17* No. *24:19* Do I think they're really good? *24:20* No. *24:22* Do I even think they're average? *24:23* Half the time, no. *24:24* But just because they changed up the formula? *24:25* That's what I really appreciate about these games. *24:28* I was like, good. *24:30* Pokemon's now gonna step out. *24:31* and do something different compared to these other games. *24:34* And that's like the charm I fell in love with a lot of this game. *24:36* And then post-game, especially an ultra sun and moon. *24:39* is bonkers with some of the stuff they add. *24:43* But I don't know. *24:45* Have you Yeah, we've done it. *24:46* Okay. *24:48* Yeah, if you both did it, you see spoilers for everyone else. *24:49* Um *24:53* All the villains prior to Sun and Moon all collide on this big post-game story arc, which I thought was amazing. *24:54* And my what do I want to say? *25:03* Second favorite Pokemon is also in this game. *25:06* Which Pokemon's that? *25:09* It's Buzzwell. *25:10* Yeah. *25:12* Is the the rainbow rocket only in Ultra? *25:14* Yes. *25:18* Yes, it is only in Ultra. *25:18* Okay *25:20* Okay. *25:21* That's what I that's what I thought. *25:22* So yeah. *25:23* That and then the new forms and then some of the changes to like the storyline and stuff like that, where the a couple new ultra beasts, like what is the *25:25* Like Poipol, the one that you get from the Yeah, the three new one Poipo, Stakataka is Moon, and then Sun and Ultra is *25:34* Blast Fion, Blaze Fion, whatever it's called, the clown fire ghost type. *25:47* Yeah. *25:52* Which is really cool. *25:52* Yeah, there's a there's there's not a lot of I mean, I I'm gonna talk more about this the later we get in the episode about the differences between *25:53* Ultra in the base games. *26:01* Um because Grant and I have already talked just a little bit off air about some of the differences. *26:04* And Max, you and I played the ultra versions, and I didn't think we I *26:10* I mean I'll I'll jump in here and share my broad opinion on this game. *26:14* I don't think these games are bad at all. *26:17* In fact I think these are like *26:19* If we were to rank all 10 of the Pokemon games we're play we've played we will be playing this season, like so far this is in like the upper half, I believe for me. *26:21* I think a lot of what this game does works *26:31* um quite well in ways that I didn't expect it to originally and the longer I played it the more it kind of got its hooks into me and how I I started to like some of the changes and some of the different *26:34* formulas that were implemented in this game. *26:45* Um I think there's a lot of strong aspects to this one and it has like a clearer vision than I think some of the *26:47* Pokemon games afterwards have. *26:55* Like Sun like Grant talked about how they changed a lot of the structure of this game and then I like Sword and Shield broadly. *26:57* I thought those games were pretty good, but by comparison, they're very *27:05* Cookie cutter, like it it they it is just like let's go back and do and play to do a very common Pokemon game, and obviously there's a little couple differences in that game, like what the *27:08* wild area and stuff like that. *27:20* Um but broadly speaking I I think this game, especially for like the 3DS and being the last *27:22* Because this is the last um handheld Pokemon game before they've then made the jump to like larger consoles, correct? *27:28* Yep. *27:36* Yeah. *27:37* Cause Sun and Moon and then Let's Go games, obviously, like that was all Switch and new and stuff like that. *27:38* Um *27:45* Or not Sun and Moon, sorry, Sword and Shield. *27:46* Um anyway, I I think these games are broadly good. *27:48* Uh if as far as my own history goes, I remember I got Sun at *27:51* Launch, I believe, and I played it for about three to four hours, and a lot of those changes that are made in this game I didn't like. *27:55* And I bounced off really hard, and I eventually just traded it in, I think. *28:02* Um *28:07* So I never played this game in full until we've done it here for the show and I played Ultramon this time around. *28:08* And yeah, generally *28:16* Liked it. *28:18* There's a lot of positive takeaways that I had from this game overall. *28:19* And I'm curious kind of where you're at, Max. *28:22* Is this the first is this the only Pokemon game that you and I both have not played if in this regard for this season? *28:27* Uh Sword and Shield neither of us had played. *28:35* Okay, you hadn't played Sword and Violet. *28:38* Sword and Shield, and I guess I mean very good. *28:39* Scarlet and Violet. *28:41* Scarlet and Violet, but that doesn't count in in that sense. *28:42* Okay. *28:46* But this is a a semi-older one that you hadn't touched. *28:46* Yeah. *28:49* I *28:50* really liked this game quite a bit. *28:52* Okay. *28:55* There's there's a lot of pieces that I like a lot. *28:56* But then there's some times where I don't like what they're doing. *29:01* It's very it there's like this dichotomy there. *29:05* I think there's a lot of moment to moment and design stuff. *29:09* that really works well. *29:13* But then they do some I think some frankly silly uh things. *29:15* In regards to pacing story stuff. *29:21* just not a fan of of some of the mid-game pacing that they go on here. *29:24* But as someone who really only *29:28* Before the season had ties to Canto and Sinnoh in regards to Blue and Diamond. *29:33* Seeing all of this Canto stuff be represented in this game made me feel *29:41* Good and familiar in a way. *29:47* You're talking like with the different forms and stuff like that. *29:50* Yeah. *29:52* I mean f Samson Oak for Pete's sake. *29:53* I mean it's just Oh yeah. *29:55* It's just Dan Professor Oak. *29:56* you know, there's these touch points, your character even is moving from Canto. *30:00* And so it felt good as a *30:04* A game to come back to. *30:08* And now we've played the five games so far, so I have more Pokemon experience, but seeing all of the characters, the you know, the Alolan forms of Kanto Pokemon. *30:10* I was like, well at least I know the name of that one. *30:21* Like, you know, that was something I could uh approach and *30:23* feel because there's some games where it's just like I don't even I still don't even know the Pokedex. *30:30* I may have some of the typing down much better but *30:34* When it says so-and-so's swapping in this Pokemon, I'm like, I have no idea what this is. *30:37* I guess I'll have to guess based off the name. *30:42* It's like Latin. *30:44* You're breaking it down. *30:46* What type could it be? *30:47* And then you're wrong. *30:48* Anyway, so *30:49* It's it's certainly I think the most interesting game that we've played so far, and I like a lot of the pieces, but there's still some some downbeats that I'm excited to dig into and and see how you guys feel. *30:50* Can I I kind of want to start this off just talking about how this game is structured in this sort of island format because that is one of the things that is greatly unique about this is that it's not a single *31:05* Continent, it is four distinct five sort of I guess uh different major areas. *31:16* What what's the is it aether tower or something like that? *31:22* Foundation or something like that. *31:26* Foundation paradise, whatever you call it. *31:28* So there's there are four major islands and then the Aether uh foundation area. *31:30* How do you guys I think kinda going off of what you were saying, Max, to me the structure of the game and the different islands I think *31:35* sets it apart. *31:42* It is kind of a win-loss thing. *31:43* I think I think it makes it very unique and it makes this game stand out that much more in the larger Pokemon series. *31:44* But I did feel like the game as a whole was like kind of disjointed because of that. *31:50* And it was really hard for me post-game. *31:55* Like, when I say that I like this game, and Grant knows this, um, but I played about fifty hours of this game and I went out of my way. *31:58* Po this is the only game we've played this season where post-game *32:05* I went out of my way to get all the different totem Pokemons on all the four distinct islands. *32:08* I went and got all of the different ultra beasts that I could obtain within my version of the game. *32:12* Um so like I spent a good chunk of time after *32:18* rolling the initial credits, continuing to play this game, and then obviously all the the Rainbow Rocket stuff as well. *32:23* Um and I have not done that with any of the other games I think we've played so far this season. *32:29* You did the Delta episode and Alpha Sapphire, but um *32:35* Yeah, there's not a lot to that. *32:46* It's pretty it's pretty streamlined. *32:47* Um and I guess the rocket stuff is too to some degree. *32:49* It's mainly just clearing one hideout and doing a bunch of different battles and stuff. *32:52* Um *32:57* But anyway, when I went back post-game though, and I was flying around to different areas, it was really hard for me to keep track of where everything's at in this game. *32:57* Canto is like emblazoned upon my brain. *33:08* Like I have that map in mind right now. *33:11* Same with Johto. *33:13* Same with even Hohen and things like that. *33:14* Like it's easy for me to visualize these regions when they're one giant *33:16* structure, this game was a little bit harder for me to kind of keep track of where everything was at just because it was so disjointed. *33:20* And it's again, I don't think that's a wholly bad thing. *33:29* Um *33:32* But kind of like I said, returning to places later on when looking at the game as a whole rather than going through it as a linear game, that made it a little bit more difficult for me to kind of *33:33* go back to areas that I had been at previously and I didn't know if what do you guys what do you guys think about the structure of the game? *33:45* I feel the same. *33:52* It's hard to re *33:54* They're all islands, right? *33:56* And so it's just like, what where was this town or where was this shop? *33:58* Oh, it's on this island, and then you're just tapping through looking for the name of the town or the store or the thing that you're looking for. *34:01* I just couldn't *34:08* Remember like I remember locations in my mind, like working my way up to the volcano or that electric laboratory on top of um the snowy mountain. *34:10* or um the graveyard kind of near the beginning of the game. *34:22* Like I remember these locations, but I couldn't tell you what island it's on or *34:26* necessarily even in what order of the game you you approach them in. *34:31* I do think the game does a good job narratively of just keeping you moving forward. *34:35* And when you're supposed to go to the next island they just take you there. *34:41* They offer to take you there at least. *34:44* So I never feel you never feel lost in the main game, but going around looking for items, looking for locations when I would get close to *34:46* you know, picking the Pokemon or a c an an area where a Pokemon I wanted for my team would be. *34:55* It was like, well, I gotta wait till I get to this island that's shaped like this and and try to remember this area and stuff. *35:00* And so *35:06* It's har it was hard to make it stand out. *35:08* And I don't think there were necessarily distinct zones like in *35:13* Um, I don't know. *35:17* I feel like at least in Sinnoh or even Hoen, you know, half the map is water. *35:19* Um there's the m water and there's a volcano and there's *35:24* the the little route and here's where the the fishing villages and stuff. *35:28* So um I do think like the world design kind of blends in a sense. *35:31* But I'm really curious about a guy who's played it 24 times who probably does know where every town and every village is. *35:37* Feels about it. *35:44* So I know Pony Island's the last one you go to because that's a big one. *35:45* There's Pony Canyon and all that stuff where all the dragon trials is at. *35:50* Uh Akala's the second and Mele Mele *35:55* is the first. *35:59* I can never remember the third, because I always like barely acknowledge the third half the time. *36:01* But *36:07* I will say like each island I wish was a little bit more distinctive of what's on it because sometimes it feels like you're just going to the same island, maybe one little different area, maybe it has a volcano in one small area or *36:09* Pony Island has like the small dragon area. *36:20* But they do feel similar a lot of the times until you get to like one landmark area within the island. *36:24* And that's *36:31* I mean it's nice that they all feel sword the same because they're all right next to each other. *36:33* If I wish there was more distinction between the four *36:37* I know routes and stuff, it's pretty easy to remember because it's like, oh, if it's between, I just divide up into four groups and like, oh, I see route whatever one to twenty nine. *36:40* I'm not sure what the route numbers are in this game. *36:51* But I'll just divide in form be like oh if it's between these it's probably on this island stuff like that So it's just like remembering like oh the shape of this island it probably has these routes on if I don't see them like let's just move on to the next one it's probably there *36:53* Besides that, I think it is a little annoying just jumping between each of the islands when you're just trying to travel between them. *37:07* I wish it was all just on one map, then you select the island you want, and then you go from there instead of just scrolling through the side. *37:13* Yeah. *37:19* But I think that's limitations of the 3DS. *37:20* Um But besides that, when it comes to islands *37:23* It's cool. *37:27* I think on different hardware like a switch it would have been a lot better, but I think it's really *37:29* innovative because they're trying to do a region similar to Hawaii the state. *37:36* They have to do islands and that's what they're going to do. *37:41* I would love to see them approach this segmented *37:44* idea and of like more distinct regions. *37:49* They almost they kind of did it in Sword and Shield with the DLC. *37:52* Well Iron Island and *37:55* Uh what was the other one called? *37:58* The Snowy Frozen Tundra. *38:00* Frozen Tundra. *38:02* Different chunks of the map that were wholly unique, because *38:03* It is a cool idea, but it's just I think you're right, the 3DS just kind of cut it off at the knees to a degree. *38:08* Mm-hmm. *38:15* A really good idea, just execution and hardware were the big problems probably for it. *38:17* I think the thing I'll add to is like all of the different Pokemon games try to *38:24* base themselves off of like one real world area. *38:28* And I know like and in recent years this has become a little bit more overt, like with uh Sword and Shield, it was clearly trying to be like England or the UK. *38:32* Um that this is obviously based on Hawaii. *38:42* Some of the older ones I don't think they're are as clear or as obvious, like the inspirations they're taking. *38:45* Um so I like that this one was more *38:52* You kind of knew what they were going for like from the beginning. *38:56* It was very on the nose, but I liked seeing more distinctly sort of what they did with their take on a Pokemon game that would be *38:59* in a Hawaiian type locale. *39:09* Um so I I I thought that was cool. *39:11* And I think largely it works to the game's strength. *39:13* And it really does. *39:15* I I think this is one of like I just mentioned previous regions like *39:16* Off the top of my head, I can't tell you anything about X and Y's region. *39:21* Um, I love black and white. *39:26* I can't really remember a whole lot about that region specifically. *39:28* The first four games I remember a lot about are the first four uh regions, but that's mainly just because I played those a lot when I was younger. *39:31* Like *39:38* Like the uh the islands here stand out greatly in the in the scope of the larger Pokemon series. *39:40* And I again I think that's *39:47* one of the big benefits of this game. *39:49* Grant, I want to go back to you because I know one of the things you really like about this game the most is the story. *39:51* This is like something you've always told me about with this one that you like really like and that you think this game has a good story. *39:58* What about this story do you think like *40:04* makes it so good because I guess to just throw my own broad two cents out there, I I didn't feel like it was anything too amazing. *40:07* Um *40:16* I don't know. *40:17* What what is it about this one that really stu stuck with you narrative-wise at least? *40:17* Um, so I will say *40:23* To preface this, I think all Pokemon game stories primarily suck, just like on average. *40:26* Like this is the best of the game's stories that suck. *40:32* So it's not a masterpiece, it's not a 10 out of 10 *40:36* beautiful game when it comes to story. *40:40* It's just the best out of the Pokemon game. *40:42* But going into that, you are a character that moves from Kanto. *40:45* Um you are traveling across these islands and meet new people. *40:50* I think when it gets to a good story is not within mostly the main story, which is probably the main bulk. *40:55* It's sort of like the side characters. *41:02* And there is one side character like his story if you like poke around enough really good *41:05* Did you guys poke around too much with like characters at all and sort of like take a little dive on each one? *41:12* I I did not. *41:18* Not particularly. *41:20* Not not outside of what was kind of *41:21* put in front of me. *41:24* No. *41:25* What who who are you talking about though? *41:26* I think Guzma has potentially the best backstory or s overall story like within a Pokemon game. *41:29* A mainline Pokemon game, I'll say. *41:38* I could see that. *41:40* But yeah, Guzma has some like it seems like a lot of dark past and like *41:42* I don't know if this is going to be a trigger warning, but it sounds like his parents beat him from just you find his dad in the game if you look hard enough and it'll talk about like *41:48* How he beat his child. *41:58* It's pretty dark for a Pokemon game. *41:59* But there's just like smaller things as you go on, you're like, oh, this character's cool. *42:03* It's like you get a little taste of him within the story. *42:06* And if you poke around by going around the map, you'll find other characters that like, hey, I know this person. *42:09* Let me tell you a little bit about him. *42:14* I think that's really cool. *42:16* And not a lot of other Pokemon games do that. *42:17* It makes the I I will say to your credit or to what you're saying here, like this world feels a little bit more interconnected than a lot of the previous Pokemon games where like each city you would go to was kind of *42:20* independent of itself. *42:32* Like I feel like a lot of the characters you stumble across in this game are like, oh, you know so and so. *42:34* I know that person too. *42:39* Blah blah blah. *42:40* Like *42:40* A lot of the characters seem to know each other, or there's like a larger history on this island, and it you get the feeling that it's like a smaller, tight-knit community. *42:41* Um, because like even the people that greet you uh throughout the course of the game, they're like, oh, you're doing your island challenge. *42:50* I remember when I did that when I was younger, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. *42:55* Like, there's a sort of like *42:58* commonality between the characters, I feel like, and there's i it comes across more in that sense compared to a lot of the other Pokemon games for sure. *43:00* There is one other thing um I will mention when it comes to story. *43:11* And it's maybe my biggest nitpick. *43:16* Of all of Sun and Moon. *43:19* The beginning of that game, the cutscenes are very long and unbearable at times. *43:21* Do I like story and how they present it? *43:28* Yes, but like half the time of 90% of those cutscenes and we're still fine. *43:31* I think this game is very cutscene heavy, especially early on with a lot of these games. *43:36* I think that's why I bounced off it early. *43:42* I uh the first time I played it, like I mentioned, because the opening hours of this game definitely do drag. *43:45* Like it takes a bit to get going. *43:50* But once you get I think once you get on this second island, it starts to kind of hit its stride and let you actually *43:52* play the game a little bit more, but yes, the opening hours are rough with the cutscenes and stuff. *43:58* Yeah, I the story here *44:04* You know, they th the the the big thing was they got rid of gyms, right? *44:08* And then so you set out and you do this these trials and ultimately you've got a *44:11* Do some sort of mini-game essentially and then do enough of it and then you fight a really big um totem Pokemon, which is very difficult. *44:17* And I kind of like that, that the goal of overcoming a a natural obstacle, like a, you know, not something, not some trainer, not some man-made thing, but just a *44:27* one with nature type of energy. *44:38* It's cool. *44:40* And then the what's the word? *44:42* I I I want to say dichotomy, but I already said that earlier. *44:45* I was trying not to use it again. *44:48* But like the the *44:49* There's these wormholes and there's this this company that has all this technology that is so that but then there you're in this natural world of the island and being one with nature and the energy of the sun and *44:52* I assume in Moon they talk about the moon more than they do about the sun. *45:02* But the light of the region and it's kind of this battle between *45:06* You know, earth and and nature versus technology and advancement and diminishing those elements. *45:12* I think that's pretty cool overall. *45:19* But then some of the st *45:22* Like Team Skull sucks. *45:25* And I think Team Skull really drags a lot of this conflict. *45:28* Down because they're just swinging their arms and beatboxing and like I'm gonna beat up a Pokemon. *45:34* I've like, I really struggled with anything involving Team Skull. *45:40* I will say once once Guzma shows up though, I think they are improved a little bit. *45:46* Um I think he's even up front. *45:51* He's like, I'm gonna beat you down and it's uh which now I guess has a really crazy context. *45:56* But uh he I think he gets better later when you go to the house, but also going to that house kinda kills the pacing. *46:02* So it's this *46:10* There's good, there's bad, and they keep conflicting and it's it's all kind of tangled up and it it makes me conflicted. *46:13* But Team Skull *46:19* just as like not a villainous team in in the slightest. *46:21* I thought what was this team in Yell? *46:25* I thought team Yell was pretty bad. *46:28* But at least that made sense in the world is just annoying football fans. *46:31* Team Skull is just I don't know what punks. *46:35* At the end of the game when they disband Team Skull, they *46:40* Their costume all that changes is the team skull logo goes away and they're the hip hop punks that that are other trainers that you can battle. *46:43* It's just it feels they feel very weak and *46:49* My experience with Pokemon is there's usually some sort of major rival group that's actually doing something pretty bad, and I suppose that's the Aether Foundation, but *46:54* I feel like they don't explore that necessarily as deep as well, that kind of comes and goes really quick. *47:02* That's what I was yeah, I I think *47:07* It was it's choreographed a bit too easily in this game that like, oh, Aether Foundation is going to end up being bad. *47:10* Like even what *47:17* They they don't really tip their hand at it too much early on. *47:19* They they really kind of present it as like, oh, maybe you can trust these people. *47:22* These are the good guys or whatever. *47:25* But like it's just *47:27* Kind of obvious because Team Skull is so stupid that like there's gotta be a bigger threat out there, and they're the only ones that kind of show up to make any sense to be that sort of *47:28* fill that antagonist role. *47:41* And I I think, yeah, them being the primary them being revealed as the primary bad guys a little bit earlier in this story, I think, would have *47:42* served a better purpose in the long run. *47:51* Because I think once they are sort of revealed as uh like uh the the mother lady, I forget her name, the mother of *47:54* Uh are Lily and Gladion brother and sister. *48:04* Yeah, they all have the same platinum blonde hair. *48:08* It was like, oh, I wonder if you're related. *48:11* Yeah. *48:14* Um *48:15* Their mom, I forget her name, the Aether Foundation uh woman. *48:16* I'm trying to find her. *48:20* It starts with El Louise something. *48:22* Uh Lusamine, yeah. *48:25* Yeah. *48:28* Like she's *48:29* She's like revealed as like, oh, the bad guy, and then she like hops into a portal with Necrozma or whatever. *48:30* I am the only one. *48:37* And then she becomes like a sympathetic *48:38* figure pretty quickly after that because they're like, oh no, she's trapped in there. *48:40* We gotta save her. *48:44* It's like, what? *48:45* I thought she was the bad person. *48:46* So it like *48:48* I think antagonist-wise, this game does struggle because Team Skull is kind of goofy. *48:49* They're dumb. *48:54* They're silly. *48:55* Luzamine's kind of the bad guy because she wants to control Necrozma is kind of like. *48:56* The bad guy? *49:01* They sort of do a similar thing that they do in Sword and Shield where the bad guy is uh what's the or the chairman rose. *49:02* Well, Chairman Rose, yes, but I was thinking the uh the big pokeworm or whatever. *49:11* Oh uh Termitus *49:16* Eternitus, yeah. *49:19* Yeah, yeah, yeah. *49:20* Like impending doom of the region. *49:21* Yes. *49:23* It's sort of the same thing here with Necrozma, that kind of presents like the big baddie of sorts and *49:24* All the different dimension holes are opening and stuff like that. *49:30* And um I don't know. *49:33* Like it's not terrible. *49:36* Um and I I I I think the central element of this game that I do like story-wise. *49:38* is everything with uh different dimensions and there's these crazy monsters from we don't know where that we've been discovering and finding and they're showing up. *49:43* Like everything involving the ultra beasts and those like being *49:53* One of the through line threads of this region, I think, is really cool. *49:56* I think outside of the Ultra Beast though, not everything else in the story works. *50:00* Um two other characters as well that we haven't talked about. *50:06* That I don't know if you guys have a ton of uh thoughts or feelings on. *50:10* But how is your rival I think sucks? *50:15* He is the most like *50:18* Cookie cutter like I'm just your rival, like person possible. *50:21* I think the only one who's more bland would be the rival in *50:27* X and Y, I believe, is like super boring as well, if I remember correctly. *50:30* Is it I'm trying to think because I haven't played X and Y in a while *50:36* Is it one rival or multiple rivals? *50:39* I think well there's like the there's like the group, isn't there? *50:42* Isn't that the one where there's like the group of different people that you kind of run around and fight? *50:45* It's that or black or white? *50:50* I don't not know. *50:51* It might be black and white. *50:52* I can't remember, we haven't played those yet this season. *50:54* Yeah. *50:56* But Howe is a really weak rival. *50:56* Like, I just don't know. *50:59* He's just happy go lucky. *51:00* I want to be the best. *51:03* And it's like, that's it. *51:04* Like, I it really *51:05* Some of these games really struggle with the rival dynamic because I think what makes the first two Pokemon games in particular so good is that your rivals are *51:08* Like jack. *51:19* Like you want to beat them. *51:21* Like there's like actual like there is a rivalry between you and your rival. *51:23* And then for some reason, like *51:29* Silver and Ruby onward, like they just become increasingly like you've got May or you've got whatever the boys. *51:31* I always play as the boy in Sapphire. *51:38* Anyway, Brandon. *51:40* Is it Brandon? *51:41* Okay. *51:42* Mayor Brandon. *51:42* Um, and then you've got like even um what's the other uh Dawn *51:44* I was thinking of I was thinking of Wally too in the Sapphire movie games. *51:52* Like like you there's like this string of rivals that are just like, ah shucks, I lost, oh darn. *51:56* It's like there's no *52:02* Like meanwhile in like silver and gold it's like I'm a criminal and I'm your rival. *52:03* And so I I just wish they would get back to doing something like that rather than what they have been doing over the past *52:09* Two decades almost, I guess, at this point. *52:17* I feel like yeah, rivals have been on the downswing until I believe Hop was the best *52:20* nice rival you can get. *52:28* You've already played sword and shield, right? *52:29* Yeah. *52:31* So I think hop is what Howe should have been. *52:32* Where Hop is like, I'm gonna be the best. *52:36* And then he's like, holy cow, I just have main character syndrome. *52:39* I cannot be the best. *52:43* This guy's obviously the best, and he just gets depressed. *52:44* And he's like, I'm still gonna try to be the best. *52:47* He can't he has a good dynamic too because he's got an older brother who's the champion and he has to grow up in that house kind of living in his shadow. *52:49* So they do some like more interesting things with like that sort of dynamic in that game for sure. *52:56* The bet the best rival in recent recent years I think is Scarlet and Violet. *53:01* What's her name again, Grant? *53:07* The Goku girl? *53:09* Oh, um Namona? *53:11* Yeah, she's awesome. *53:13* She's great. *53:15* She is wild. *53:15* Yeah, she's great. *53:17* She is Goku basically. *53:18* Specifically how though *53:20* I thought I was playing this game, I was like, man, Hal's kind of lame. *53:23* I think whenever the rival picks the weaker Pokemon and not the counter, that's an automatic flag to me. *53:26* Like, this isn't gonna be a good time. *53:33* Because *53:35* It's just a one-hit, a one-hit. *53:35* But there was a moment in the story. *53:38* I think it's around the the ghosts, the ghost house trial or whatever, when *53:40* Uh Guzma comes, they take some Pokemon away. *53:49* I think it's a little Donald Trump weasel looking thing. *53:52* And but how can't stop them? *53:56* And he or it was a little earlier maybe. *54:00* I think at the park, Guzma's there fighting and he tells Howe like, you know, the the trials are pointless or, you know, think about where you're at. *54:03* And it it hits Howe, kinda. *54:12* And he has this realization of like *54:14* Well, what am I doing here? *54:16* I just wanted to have Pokemon battles and eat my uh masala. *54:17* But what you know, what am I doing? *54:22* And I thought at that moment where he and Guzman interacted in in a verbal way, not just a Pokemon battle, I was like *54:24* This is where he has like a heel turn and Howe's gonna become a bad dude. *54:31* I thought Howe was gonna *54:36* l like go down the team skull kind of evil path but in a cooler way and actually become your rival. *54:38* And then he's like, nah, I'm just gonna be the best. *54:44* I gotta give it my all. *54:46* And I was like, no, because I really *54:48* That was a that could have been a cool moment for a lighthearted character to take a turn at the behest of another bad character, like for someone to *54:51* have that inner struggle and really be a counter to your character. *55:01* But I was so bummed when it didn't happen. *55:07* He was like, I just have to be the best. *55:08* Well, I think it's I think it's made even worse that like he ends up being the champion. *55:11* Or not the champion, but the final challenger to crown the first champion. *55:15* Is like and this is a larger discussion we can have here. *55:19* One one second before we do have this discussion though, I just want to say best rival we were talking about best rivals in the series and black and white *55:22* Kind of a rival. *55:32* But we haven't played those yet. *55:33* We haven't played that. *55:34* And I'd I don't have no knowledge of it. *55:35* He's kind of a rival. *55:37* I think he fills that void in those games. *55:39* I don't know what Grant would think. *55:41* I think *55:43* Whatever you want to call the rival in silver, gold, crystal, the son of Giovanni? *55:45* Yeah, that's the best rival. *55:53* Yeah, the actual the first thing you see him do is break into a poka lab and steal a Pokemon. *55:55* Evil, evil man. *56:01* He is definitely twisted and I think one of the best *56:03* The champion stuff, we have to talk about this. *56:07* So, and this is another thing that I think this game does better than most others is you're competing in the first *56:10* Elite four ever. *56:18* You're being crowned that first champion ever of a Lola. *56:20* It's really it makes *56:24* It makes the post-game when you're running around and people are like, oh crap, it's the champion. *56:25* Like they're all acknowledging you as the champion, which is kind of cool. *56:32* And the other games don't. *56:35* Like *56:37* Because that's what's kind of funny, especially looking again at a game like Sword and Shield, where like the champion is kind of elevated on this platform with, is it Leon? *56:39* Is that his name? *56:47* Yeah, Leon is Sword and Shield. *56:48* Yeah, like Leon is like the most famous person within that region in Sword and Shield. *56:50* And it's like, well, yeah, he's the Pokey Poke League champion. *56:56* And so this game defeated champion too. *56:59* Like this game makes it feel important when you become champion because everybody acknowledges you as such in the postgame if you continue playing the postgame for *57:02* uh quite a bit, which I know you didn't, Max, but um people will acknowledge I started the rainbow. *57:14* I did the rainbow. *57:21* I didn't run around *57:22* Alola though. *57:24* Yeah. *57:25* But a lot of people do acknowledge you as such, which I thought was kind of a cool thing. *57:26* Anyway, this is the part where we need to discuss like the differences between *57:29* The versions. *57:34* And obviously, if you're listening to this episode and you heard what I said a second ago with Hal being the champion, that is not the case in the base game, because the champ of the base game is Grant *57:35* informed me before we record this podcast a couple weeks ago is Kakui the professor, which is awesome, I think. *57:45* One of the greatest things in all of Pokemon, cause it's always been rumored in every game before, like, oh there's this big professor fight and like back when there was no internet when we were young kids with red and blue *57:55* It's like, oh, after you catch all the Pokemon and everything, you get a fight professor and he has every Pokemon, you must kill him in a gauntlet. *58:07* And that was like the big rumor back then, but you never really had a professor fight *58:15* I believe until this game. *58:21* And when it's like, oh yeah, we just made this league. *58:24* I'm the final trial. *58:28* And I'm like, oh, this is good. *58:29* Well, I think that makes sense too, like *58:32* Because he's like one of the foremost authorities on all of the four islands. *58:35* He should be the sort of vinyl test. *58:38* Instead in the Ultra Games, it's like just fight your childhood friend again. *58:40* It's like, what? *58:44* I don't understand why they made that shift in the Ultra games. *58:47* Like Max, I know we talked about we talked about this a little bit briefly off-air the other day. *58:51* And looped Max in on this as well. *58:55* And you kind of said like, eh, who cares? *58:57* You gotta acknowledge though that like it is one of those things like why would they change this for the ultra versions? *59:00* I'm not really *59:05* Sure, it's one of the most unique aspects about this game, I think, that you fight the professor to become the champion at the end. *59:06* Like none of the other games does that. *59:13* I yeah, I don't know why they would have changed it. *59:15* Narratively, it does make more sense to fight the professor. *59:17* I'm I'm with you there. *59:20* That's you know just narratively. *59:21* Well they drop a lot of hints throughout the whole game. *59:23* I just to jump in on what you're saying there, they drop a lot of hints throughout the whole game *59:25* He talks about when he did his own island challenge that throughout the whole game, there's the whole sequence where the he's a luchador luchador fighter and you like r I realize it's him, but he's hiding his identity. *59:28* So like there's a lot of hints dropped throughout the game that like, oh yeah, I've done this too. *59:40* I'm very intimately familiar with the island challenge and I know how to pokeybattle and blah blah blah blah blah, but you never really see it. *59:44* So for it to be fully revealed at the end of the game when you have to fight him *59:50* Kind of pays off all those narrative threads that they set up early like in the hours earlier in the game. *59:54* So I'm not sure like who thought to tweak this in Ultra. *59:58* Anyway, sorry. *01:00:03* No, you're fine. *01:00:04* I just I don't know. *01:00:05* But when Howe stepped up, I was just like, this is par for the course, because everything I've played up to this point is essentially fighting your your initial rival or your childhood friend. *01:00:06* So *01:00:17* It just was the same for me. *01:00:18* And I feel like But if it was the professor, I would have been like, okay, sure, you're you're the professor of Pokemon moves. *01:00:21* Like *01:00:29* It makes sense. *01:00:30* So I d I didn't feel like I was missing out on a hype moment or if the battle really would have been any different as far as from a gameplay perspective, but narratively it is different. *01:00:31* And it would have been better just from a narrative perspective, but I didn't feel uh, you know, like I was missing out or anything *01:00:41* I only really have two major major complaints about this whole champion elite four thing. *01:00:50* One *01:00:57* Hey, the four people they pick for uh the Elite Four. *01:00:58* Pretty cool except for one. *01:01:02* You get a random golfer airlane, she's like, hello, I've been asked to travel back and fight you. *01:01:03* So I have a I have a question about her *01:01:09* I assumed that she was in the sun. *01:01:12* Like is she from any previous game *01:01:16* Nope, she's just like, hello, I want to late more. *01:01:19* She just golfs. *01:01:22* I thought it was just some deep cut, like a a a character from a previous game that I just totally *01:01:23* Just a random golfer. *01:01:29* No. *01:01:30* I mean, okay, to be fair, all of the Elite Four members in the previous games are just random trainers, I guess, in some sense. *01:01:31* Well everyone you fight in this one though you had met before, except for *01:01:38* Yes. *01:01:43* So I guess it's weird. *01:01:43* Stands out in that sense for sure. *01:01:45* That should have been the four great *01:01:47* kahunas, whatever you want to call them, the four great people of each island should have been, I believe, the elite four of this game. *01:01:50* Yeah, I mean you're right, it just kind of sets itself up really easily that you would fight the four presiding presiding chiefs of each of the islands like *01:01:59* Yeah, like that makes a little instead you fight a golfer who has birds. *01:02:10* My other complaint, even though the professor fight is one of the coolest things in vanilla *01:02:14* I wish you would have fought him when he was the luchador man and he still would have kept up his little persona and then like, I'm not the professor, I'm the luchador man. *01:02:22* That would have been funny, but they just sort of like, hello, I'm a luchador *01:02:30* And then it's like barely visit on later on until you like pick up a mask or at one point it's like, hey, you drop this. *01:02:35* It's like, this isn't mine, and he walks off. *01:02:40* He should have been champion wrestler man, but nope, he was just the professor, which is still cool *01:02:42* But I feel like they could have played off that little persona thing he has going on. *01:02:49* I like the I like the Nacho Libre-esque. *01:02:53* lifestyle he's living with the Pokemons. *01:02:58* I don't know. *01:03:00* That's just one aspect of this game that I thought was very strange and I I can't wrap my mind around why. *01:03:01* They did that. *01:03:10* It's fit. *01:03:11* I will say one other thing about Elite Four. *01:03:12* None of you refought the Elite Four, correct? *01:03:14* No, it's at yes, mention this grant, because Max does not know about this. *01:03:18* Alright, so you are the champion after you beat it the first time, correct? *01:03:23* Yeah. *01:03:27* So you beat the original four people and you sit up at the top of the throne. *01:03:28* From then on out after the first time, it's random people who you fight in the champion spot. *01:03:33* It could be *01:03:39* different side characters can be how again it can be random characters that make there there are two good ones there's one this weird dragon tamer looking guy *01:03:41* Makes no sense why he's there's like I'm a dragon tamer and I've come here to be the champion and then the best one Pokemon trainer Joey from Route 1 *01:03:53* Can also fight you. *01:04:05* Yes. *01:04:07* Please tell me he has his Rattata. *01:04:08* He has very similar team to his first one. *01:04:10* He doesn't have *01:04:15* If he doesn't have an Alolan Ratata, what is even the point? *01:04:16* Give me a second, I'm gonna look it up. *01:04:21* But yeah, it's from the tr it's from the trainer school. *01:04:23* It's the youngster Joey from the trainer school. *01:04:27* Yes. *01:04:30* This is incredible. *01:04:31* But yeah, going back and fighting is one of the funniest things ever, because you get random people. *01:04:33* So *01:04:39* That's cool world building. *01:04:40* Alright, so it's not Joey, per se, at least. *01:04:41* It's not the it's not the silver gold Joey. *01:04:44* Yeah. *01:04:47* It's Trainer Tristan one. *01:04:47* And he has an Amolga, a Sharpedo, an Executor Alolanform, a Magmortar, and a Tauros with a Z move. *01:04:49* Okay. *01:04:58* Alright. *01:04:58* That's still cool though. *01:04:59* Yeah, I would just encourage you, Max, to go and look up the full list. *01:05:01* Cause I did this about a couple weeks ago. *01:05:06* Look up the full list of everybody that can come and challenge you as the champion because it's pretty *01:05:08* crazy um everybody that you you can actually fight through the postgame like uh the electric lab boy comes in and finally fights you *01:05:13* The Aether Foundation dude with the big glasses who looks like Elton John comes in and invites you. *01:05:23* Um some of the Elite Four members will challenge you to be the champion as well. *01:05:29* They're like, I think I should be the champion. *01:05:34* I challenge you. *01:05:36* Uh and they try to usurp you. *01:05:37* Um I don't some of the other gym leaders come try to fight or not the gym leaders, but the challenge leaders come try to fight you too, or am I wrong on that? *01:05:39* Very few. *01:05:47* It's like Team Skull *01:05:47* Rivals um an ultra sun and moon. *01:05:50* Ryuki. *01:05:55* Losamine challenges you in ultra sun and moon. *01:05:56* That is not in vanilla. *01:05:59* I think Prof Professor Kakui does, uh Gladion does, um I think Guzma does as well. *01:06:01* So a lot of the main characters do for sure, but then there's like some offshoots, and it's always randomized, isn't it? *01:06:08* Yep. *01:06:14* It's always random. *01:06:14* That's neat. *01:06:16* That's really cool. *01:06:17* That's smart. *01:06:19* That's a fun that's a fun, cool little aspect of the game for sure. *01:06:20* That like again that you and I didn't see or I guess I could've *01:06:23* see it. *01:06:27* I mean I could we're we're both in the post game, but yeah you just have to go back and do it, I guess. *01:06:27* Um I will say though, mechanically Elite Four, I I don't I've *01:06:34* I think it's the first time, it may be the only time. *01:06:39* But I like that you could go in any order. *01:06:42* There wasn't a a stacked like you gotta fight these trainers in this order. *01:06:45* I thought it was kind of cool that you could take the approach of *01:06:49* maybe tackling the hardest one first to based off your team typing or uh go the easy route. *01:06:53* Uh I thought that was kind of cool that you could choose. *01:06:58* the order. *01:07:01* I thought that was pretty neat. *01:07:02* I don't know about you guys, but I like had some struggles with the Elite Four too. *01:07:03* So like I would go fight the ones that my team was best suited to *01:07:07* grind off of just to level up my team a little bit if that so and then save the tougher ones for last so even if I lost against them like it was one of those things where it's like okay well I defeated *01:07:11* two or three of the easier ones just so I could level up. *01:07:23* Um, which I know a lot of people do in previous Pokemon games too, but it's sometimes the the Elite Four because they're in a static order, you would get stuck on the first or second one in some of the older games depending on *01:07:26* How your team matched up. *01:07:37* Yeah, this game I think uh we've talked a lot about the champion Elite Four stuff. *01:07:39* I I want to talk about two more character things here if we can. *01:07:43* Um, just broadly, and I think this would put to bed all the character and story stuff. *01:07:47* Um, and that is just Lily and I guess Gladion, um, Gladion, however you say it. *01:07:51* I don't I feel like I don't know how Gladion and Lily, I feel like are like three of the weaker characters in the game. *01:08:00* Lily Lily in particular, I feel like they really try to focus on and have her *01:08:08* have a character arc of some sort, but at the end of the day I feel like her character arc is I pulled my hair back into a ponytail and now I'm not scared or something. *01:08:14* I I don't know. *01:08:24* It's it's kind of *01:08:25* Not not ambiguous, but it's just not it it didn't wasn't that effective, I suppose. *01:08:27* Um *01:08:34* So yeah, I I don't know. *01:08:35* And then Gladion is a little bit too embroiled in I feel like he could have gotten the spotlight a bit more in this game. *01:08:36* Um I think he's an interesting character and I think there's some *01:08:43* I think they just could have done more with him than they did, honestly. *01:08:47* Um, and his big reveal is just that like his the nature of his family, I suppose. *01:08:51* Um and I feel like there was some more interesting things that they could have done with him personally that they really choose not to. *01:08:57* But I I don't know how you guys *01:09:06* feel about these two. *01:09:08* Um, Lily, we'll start with that. *01:09:09* Lily is just trying to discover what she wants out of life, but then at the post game, she's like, I gotta travel and become *01:09:11* the person I'm meant to be and then she just disappears off into the sunset. *01:09:20* Gladion's cool because he's like, I gotta figure out. *01:09:24* What I'm doing, and I gotta run away from my mom because my mom's mean. *01:09:29* And then he runs away and joins team school. *01:09:33* Wow. *01:09:35* Very good life decision there. *01:09:36* But *01:09:39* Yeah, really? *01:09:40* He Gladion's trying to destroy his mom from the inside out until he's like, oh wait, Team School is part of my mom's group. *01:09:41* Uh-oh, I just found this out. *01:09:49* And then um *01:09:51* Willie is just basically like, yeah, I don't know who I am. *01:09:53* I'm just traveling with you guys. *01:09:57* Oh, I'm inspired by you guys. *01:09:58* I'm gonna go do my own thing. *01:10:00* Pretty *01:10:01* Pretty meh overall with those two individuals. *01:10:02* Yeah, I didn't care for Lily all that much. *01:10:06* I found her pretty annoying, honestly, because she in the front half of the game, she's *01:10:09* helpless constantly. *01:10:16* And then she has a strong disdain for Pokemon battles. *01:10:18* She doesn't like seeing Pokemon get hurt, which is part of her character of you know, helping Cosmog. *01:10:21* and all that stuff, or or Nebby, as she calls it. *01:10:27* So I didn't care for that. *01:10:31* She was always *01:10:34* incapable of something. *01:10:36* And then there's that halfway or even kind of three quarters of the way through the game that pull ponytail back in the moment. *01:10:37* And it *01:10:44* I remember this from a film class in high school. *01:10:44* It's like when a character cuts their hair or changes their hair, it's a b it's a sign of a big person in inward change of the character and it's a new point for them. *01:10:46* Hers is like, I'm gonna come out and be stronger. *01:10:54* This is my alolan form. *01:10:57* Or my ultra beast form or or whatever. *01:10:59* And I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. *01:11:02* Maybe she'll like become a trainer all the s like I didn't know where she was gonna go. *01:11:04* And she does fight with you once with a chancy out of nowhere. *01:11:08* And then she's like, ah, I'm not strong enough to do anything, so I'm just gonna keep healing your Pokemon. *01:11:12* Keep on going. *01:11:17* Hope you hope you can do it. *01:11:18* And I just she so she didn't actually change all that much until the end when she she leaves. *01:11:21* So I just I didn't care for Lily all that much and and Gladion I *01:11:26* I feel like he's in the game two, three times and he's not very tough. *01:11:31* And he has this weird holds his arm and it's constantly shaking like he's holding back power or something. *01:11:34* Almost like a *01:11:41* liquid osolot kind of thing. *01:11:42* Like ah so I didn't really get what was up with him or his design and his I mean I understood his motivation. *01:11:44* So I found that whole little family dynamic not as *01:11:53* satisfying, especially because of like you mentioned earlier, Logan, their mother kind of gets the I'm I'm helping all Pokemon. *01:11:56* Haha, I'm evil, disappears. *01:12:04* Oh, I'm good now. *01:12:06* So it's it's it it it was a very the the whole dynamic doesn't get fleshed out. *01:12:08* I don't think in the right way. *01:12:12* Well I was just gonna say like it's clear the kids have a beef with her and then she gets sucked into a portal and it's immediately like, oh no, we must save them! *01:12:14* It's like uh uh *01:12:21* There's no there's no real resolution brought to a head with like this inner turmoil that's been happening within this family for so long. *01:12:23* It's just it just all kind of gets thrown out the window because Necrozma. *01:12:31* kind of throws a wrench in all everything. *01:12:35* So I I think it's better done in vanilla because yeah the main focus of Ultra Sun Moon is Macrozman, mostly the ultra beast stuff. *01:12:37* Um Sun and Moon, it's basically a conflict. *01:12:46* Both the kids run away, essentially, because their mom has become obsessed with beauty and perfection of like Pokemon and achieving her goals over raising her kids. *01:12:49* So when it comes to vanilla version, I think it does it better than Ultra Sun and Moon because they're trying to emphasize on this new form, new character, new Pokemon and like their mechanics and trying to weave that into *01:12:59* an already okay story that was fine to begin with. *01:13:14* So this is where I think vanilla does it better with like the whole mother and her kids dynamic *01:13:18* But they still have like similar outcomes besides you don't see the mother at the end of the game in the vanilla games. *01:13:26* She's just like in her room is like, oh, you can't enter there. *01:13:32* She's sick. *01:13:34* And that's about it. *01:13:35* Well, you bring up something that I wanted to talk about too, which was just like the how the legendaries are implemented in this game. *01:13:37* Obviously, we've talked about Necrozma a little bit and the Ultra Beasts, which aren't technically legendaries, but um *01:13:43* I specifically kind of wanted to talk about Nebi and what they do with uh Soul Galeo and Lunala in this game, um, which is that they have sort of like an evolved *01:13:50* line for I I think is that the first time they've ever done it to where legendaries evolve in a distinct *01:14:01* line like that and become like the the main legendary of the game. *01:14:10* Like I can't think of any other instance where that happens in any of the games. *01:14:14* I mean you got Cubfu from the shield sword isle thing or whatever. *01:14:19* Yeah. *01:14:25* That's the only legendary that evolves, if I'm correct. *01:14:26* Yeah. *01:14:29* So I mean this is I mean on its at face value I I think that I I'll say I don't really care for either of the legendary variants in this game just in terms of *01:14:30* Um look and I like I don't know. *01:14:42* It's they're fine. *01:14:46* They they don't really stand out to me too much. *01:14:47* Maybe and maybe that's partially because again, like you were kind of saying, Grant, Max and I played *01:14:49* Ultra, and there's obviously huge emphasis on Necrozma compared to the standard legendaries in the base games. *01:14:54* Um, so I imagine they get thrust into the spotlight a little bit more *01:15:03* in the st in the vanilla versions. *01:15:08* But I do think the idea of like this creature that's kind of hanging around with Lily the whole game ends up being *01:15:12* the main legendary most powerful Pokemon is a is a neat idea. *01:15:19* And again, it's kind of like we talked about at the top when we started this episode. *01:15:23* Like they really try to *01:15:27* in every sense subvert your expectations with this game and do something new. *01:15:29* Like it's clear that they came into this game and wanted to do something new with the region, wanted to do something new with the legendaries, wanted to do something new *01:15:34* with the storytelling. *01:15:41* Um and it at times they reverted back to old ways and then in other instances I think like like with Solgalio and Lunala, like they do they do some cool things. *01:15:43* Um what did you think about how this was all *01:15:52* Dun Max I d I liked a lot that uh you know Nebby was the legendary that we were seeking the whole time. *01:15:56* I think that actually was pretty *01:16:05* neat in just a a small way. *01:16:07* Not you know, it's not some grand revelation or anything, or really it's not like you can use Nebi or the second of all form anyway. *01:16:08* So *01:16:17* You can. *01:16:18* Oh, you can. *01:16:19* What is this a thing you get in the postgame? *01:16:21* You can get a Nebby. *01:16:23* Mm-hmm. *01:16:24* Yep. *01:16:25* Okay. *01:16:25* You can you can go to an an alternate it's it's like you go to an alternate dimension where it's the inverse *01:16:25* So uh you know how the basically like night is day and day is night in this other universe and there's a Nebi or a Cosmog that exists in that world and you can capture it there. *01:16:32* and involve it and it evolves into it does it involve into the other one version that you don't have or it will if you're in the alternate universe, so if you're in moon and you go to alternate universe to catch an Ebi Sun. *01:16:44* You have to evolve it in that alternate universe from its second form to final form if you want for the Sun version. *01:16:59* If you take it back to your version, you'll just get a second legendary. *01:17:08* Cause that's pretty cool. *01:17:13* That's neat. *01:17:14* That's something that I would have chased as a kid. *01:17:15* Yeah, because there's like a sp there's a specific *01:17:18* If you look it up like on Cerebi or whatever, like Nebi evolve or Cosmog evolves into the middle form, which is Cosmo M level *01:17:21* 43 uh and then depending on which island you're on at level 53 it'll involve into the final legendary itself. *01:17:29* Oh that's pretty cool. *01:17:36* Well, I stand corrected then. *01:17:38* But you know, it's cool. *01:17:40* A Nebby *01:17:42* I guess I just kind of looked down on Nebby though because it was so attached to Lily and I wasn't caring for that character and *01:17:46* It would seem mostly like a narrative thing. *01:17:55* It's not a I don't think it's an interesting Pokemon. *01:17:57* It's by itself. *01:18:01* I think *01:18:02* The the actual legendary is the one you care about. *01:18:03* It's moves that it knows are splash and teleport. *01:18:05* Yeah. *01:18:09* So those are some moves. *01:18:09* So it's it's cool conceptually, but uh *01:18:12* There could have been more there from uh an evolutionary or perspective, because really all you care about in the end is the lion or the bat. *01:18:16* So speaking of legendaries, really quick *01:18:24* The Krozma you don't get till you catch every Ultra Beast in the vanilla game. *01:18:26* So you don't even know of the Crozma until like after you get every Ultra Beast *01:18:30* Ultra Sun and Moon, you find out about Necrozma extremely early on. *01:18:34* Yeah, I felt like Necrozma was being talked about pretty much most of the game. *01:18:39* Yep, that's interesting. *01:18:44* And I think Necrozma's really cool. *01:18:46* I I like I'm glad that that is one of the things about Ultra that I do like is I think he's one of the cooler *01:18:48* Is he technically an ultra beast? *01:18:53* He is not an ultra beast. *01:18:55* Your legendaries are ultra beasts, the Sun and Moon ones. *01:18:57* Necrozma is not. *01:19:00* Interesting, interesting. *01:19:02* I do like Necrozma a lot. *01:19:03* I think Necrozma looks really cool. *01:19:04* I think it's got a cool design. *01:19:06* Um I like I like him more on his own compared to when he's uh combined with the the others used up. *01:19:08* Yeah. *01:19:16* One thing that you can do in the legend with the legendaries in I believe this is only an ultra and this is kind of an aspect about the whole game I wanted to *01:19:17* ask you guys about is like you can ride on them and you can fly through all these portals and stuff like that and I don't know if you ever did that Max that's how you get the ultra beast do you have to go to specific *01:19:24* Portals. *01:19:35* Uh you have to go to specific portals and it's very RNG intensive and it drove me up a wall. *01:19:36* Um the process of catching a gus wool. *01:19:43* Or it not Guswol, uh Guzzlord kept me up all night, and it was purely because of uh RNG, basically, that I was just kind of waiting to get *01:19:46* the right one. *01:19:58* Uh so that was very frustrating. *01:19:59* But I this one I wanted to segue that into a larger discussion about just *01:20:01* the various Pokemon that you ride in this game. *01:20:05* There's a whole Manteen Surfing bonus game. *01:20:08* Like they add little things like this here and there. *01:20:12* And then obviously there are HMs in this game are replaced by *01:20:14* what seven or eight different Pokemon that you can ride on and push things around with and stuff like that. *01:20:18* Uh how do you guys feel about this system and is this really the first *01:20:25* game in the series that moved away from HMs fully. *01:20:30* I can't remember if it was in if they were still implemented in any manner in *01:20:33* X and Y. *01:20:38* Black and White, they were X and Y, I I don't remember it. *01:20:40* That is forgettable games. *01:20:44* We don't remember anything about X and Y, so it's gonna be really interesting when we play that one, Max, because I don't remember much either *01:20:46* I wanna say yes that there were some. *01:20:52* There are HMs in X and Y. *01:20:54* So this is the first one. *01:20:56* So this is the first one where they fully moved away from HMs, which I think in the long run is a *01:20:57* good decision, I think, that we've come to have had agree with throughout the course of this season, Max. *01:21:03* Um this it was great too. *01:21:09* just be able to fly or ride or push anywhere without needing a Pokemon that, you know *01:21:12* have all the HM. *01:21:20* A dedicated Pokemon did it. *01:21:23* Yeah. *01:21:24* Or waste up move slots on Pokemon you actually care about. *01:21:25* So I was very appreciative and *01:21:28* It's that Charizard fly is very fast. *01:21:30* That is the almost the definition of fast travel for sure. *01:21:33* It's pretty snappy. *01:21:37* Yeah, I think I liked um I obviously liked them moving away from HMs because it had worn thin as the series continued onward. *01:21:38* I think I prefer how they handle it though in games like Sword and Shield compared to this one where it's just like, we're gonna upgrade your bike out of nowhere and cool, now you can cross water and now you can do this or just *01:21:47* Well, you just rode a Pokemon that could fly, swim, and turn into a motorcycle. *01:21:59* Sure. *01:22:04* That too. *01:22:05* Or like I I don't know. *01:22:06* Some of these things in this game I think prove to me that like *01:22:08* Like when you get them at champ and you're like pushing boulders around, like that's never there's never any like actual puzzle element to that, I don't feel like, or ever there was never any difficulty to it. *01:22:12* It was just *01:22:24* pushing them and it was always very slow and it was like, okay, I I don't want to do this. *01:22:25* Or when you had to uh get your Mudsdale and cross rocky areas or something like that. *01:22:29* Like none of it was *01:22:34* Like it just none of it was fun switching between them. *01:22:36* So I was glad that it didn't take up HMs and I'm glad it didn't like I'm glad they moved away from that system, but I I think that it's been handled better in *01:22:39* later entries, specifically like with Sword and Shield and um Scarlet and Violet with kind of how they do traversal in the world in that game. *01:22:49* Yep, definitely first one. *01:22:58* No HMs. *01:22:59* The saddest moment when your HM slave could be the Donald Trump weasel, but *01:23:01* I mean, definitely net positive direction for Pokemon to go on in the future, just an HMS game. *01:23:07* Now when they remake all these games later on, like when you talk about earlier ones, if they're gonna add HMs, hopefully they remove them, because I do not want to *01:23:14* catch a little badoof later on, which I mean no. *01:23:22* Are there HMs in shining pearl diamond crystals? *01:23:26* Yeah. *01:23:30* Yeah. *01:23:31* Brilliant diamond and shiny pearl. *01:23:34* Yeah. *01:23:37* I honest those games were bad. *01:23:37* But um definitely No HMs has been a great experience from this game forward. *01:23:40* Yeah, it's been really *01:23:46* It was really, really nice not to have to deal with any of that. *01:23:48* I actually really loved it when they gave you fly from a girl from Kanto. *01:23:51* Or Jota, one of the two. *01:23:56* And she was like, this is a big deal where I'm from, but I guess it's just a TM over here. *01:23:57* And they she gives it to you. *01:24:02* And I was like, I don't have to use this. *01:24:03* Yeah, that was a good moment. *01:24:08* I totally forgot about that actually. *01:24:09* Did you spend any time manteing surfing max other than when it forced you to? *01:24:11* I did it the whole time. *01:24:16* You didn't pull any sick tricks off? *01:24:17* I did, I guess. *01:24:19* But then later I was reading, I was like, How do I get, you know, like buy battle items or certain stones or or th you know certain TMs? *01:24:20* And it's like, oh yeah, surf. *01:24:29* And I was like, I even googled, how do I get battle points quickly? *01:24:31* And it was like you gotta do these surfing moves. *01:24:37* You can get like 50 in a *01:24:39* If you do the tricks all well, you can get 50 battle points in one trip. *01:24:41* I was like, oh no. *01:24:45* We haven't talked whatsoever about like *01:24:46* the mechanics of battling themselves in this game. *01:24:49* Um and the Pokemon. *01:24:52* And I don't know Max, obviously you're champing it to bit to talk about this. *01:24:55* What did you think about Z moves, which I feel like are the really only *01:24:59* Huge difference in this game unless I'm forgetting something else, but there's one way thing, but it's not as battle-prevalent with trainers, but go on Z moves next and we'll talk about *01:25:04* SOS mechanics leader. *01:25:17* Oh yeah. *01:25:19* SOS. *01:25:20* So Z moves. *01:25:21* I mean I like the idea of a *01:25:23* You can only do it once per battle and just across your six Pokemon, only one Pokemon could do it, depending on who you gave the item to. *01:25:28* So I like, you know, I like the idea of a very powerful move that's cool. *01:25:39* Uh the cutscenes were a bit much. *01:25:45* What I I'm not, I think, mechanically a fan of is it is it does require your Pokemon to hold the item. *01:25:48* And so if you want it. *01:25:55* across a certain line of moves or types, you gotta give it to a bunch of different Pokemon. *01:25:57* So it I noticed that battle items weren't dropping very much in this game or around the world. *01:26:03* And it was more collect all of these crystals. *01:26:09* So I'm not sure I'm a fan of that side of the mechanic. *01:26:11* But the moves themselves are fine and it it seems a simpler version versus a mega *01:26:15* evolution or gigantamaxing. *01:26:22* Uh this seems just like a very clear, simple way to move forward, and I I enjoyed them. *01:26:25* For the most part, yeah. *01:26:33* But it was it also was like, uh well I guess they're all just gonna hold hold this item. *01:26:34* And then later I found out that some of them you have to actually explore the world to to get them, like the ice one and and things like that. *01:26:40* So that was *01:26:46* Interesting as well to discover. *01:26:48* I got all of them naturally. *01:26:50* Actually. *01:26:52* Oh okay *01:26:53* I just like totally I was like, oh, I think I have all of them. *01:26:55* I explored the whole game apparently. *01:26:58* I found none of the the ones out in the world. *01:27:01* I think there's only like two or three. *01:27:04* There's not a lot. *01:27:06* There's like there's not that many. *01:27:07* No, I didn't find any of them. *01:27:08* I just walked stray lines everywhere. *01:27:10* Kind of compared to what you're saying, I like the Z crystals because they're it adds a larger strategic element with it. *01:27:13* Like you and I are *01:27:20* Like we mentioned before, we haven't done our fight yet for this game. *01:27:21* So in the back of my mind, I'm trying to think about which Pokemon I want to put my Z crystals on and which ones would be best. *01:27:24* to have like should I just put it on one Pokemon and really lock myself into using one specific Z move in this battle and put bat and put *01:27:32* better suited battle items on the other five or should I put it on a couple in case you KO my one with that has my Z move on it? *01:27:42* Like there's a greater level of strategy here that I'm thinking about which involves the held items. *01:27:50* uh which I think can often play a big part in especially competitive battles like between us. *01:27:56* Um I don't know. *01:28:02* Well again you've clearly explored the world more than me but I *01:28:03* I didn't find any battle items. *01:28:07* So it felt like everyone just got a crystal anyway. *01:28:10* So I felt like a couple, I feel like. *01:28:13* You definitely find some *01:28:17* Sure, for one Pokemon. *01:28:22* Who do I want the chance of going faster? *01:28:23* Alright, so I know your strategy for our battle now. *01:28:26* You're equipping six Z crystals on all your Pokemon. *01:28:28* That's uh cause I don't I don't have anything else I've I looked I've I've that's why I was searching where are these items? *01:28:32* And there's like you gotta go here and buy 'em. *01:28:38* But you can't. *01:28:40* But even that's not a bad strategy though, because I don't know, like in our battle, I'll never know when you're gonna pull out your Z move and who you're gonna decide to use it with. *01:28:41* You know, it's like *01:28:49* Whereas if if I only put one Z crystal on mine, it's like I'm really locking myself into having to s almost set myself up for this move at some point and using it properly. *01:28:50* I suppose. *01:29:01* I don't know. *01:29:02* It just seemed like a *01:29:03* one step too restrictive and I felt like it was taken away from other mechanics and strategy, or at least I wasn't engaged deep enough in surfing to find or purchase other items to up my game, so *01:29:05* Grant, you mentioned the SOS stuff. *01:29:19* Then you can talk about the Z moves as well if you want to. *01:29:23* I'll talk about Z moves because I think it's broken when you allow *01:29:27* Mega evolution still in this game. *01:29:31* You can have both on your team. *01:29:33* You wanna mega evolve your Alakazan? *01:29:35* And then hey, my little Pikachu over here is gonna do the super thousand bolt move that like one-shots anything *01:29:37* Yeah, you can have both of those. *01:29:43* So if you didn't know Mega Evolutions were in this game, they still are. *01:29:45* Oh, I did know they were in the game because of *01:29:50* Team Rainbow Rocket, which I actually thought was very a very cool reveal to me because I didn't know Mega Evolutions were in the game until that point. *01:29:53* But uh I didn't re I guess I that didn't compute that you could do both, which does seem a little OP. *01:30:02* I want to make the assumption on Teams that you didn't add any Mega Evolution Pokemon that can, because they don't add anything new, it's just from older X and Y and Omega Sapphire Ruby stuff *01:30:12* I yeah, I didn't even try to do that. *01:30:24* I don't I well, I don't even have another three DS to trade between Sapphire and this to get the items and *01:30:26* the Pokemon to do it. *01:30:32* So I don't think you can trade the items over the Mega Evolution still. *01:30:33* How do you not have another three DS? *01:30:37* I almost have like three or four of them. *01:30:38* I only have one three DS. *01:30:40* This gotta start scanning the Facebook marketplaces for th new 3DS like me. *01:30:43* This man says, oh my gosh, in a bedroom where he's surrounded and f *01:30:50* filled with video game things uh up to his eyeballs. *01:30:54* He can't just go out and buy the Game Boy Micro 3DS. *01:30:58* Uh I could I could trade with the game no you can't. *01:31:02* They don't have a trading port. *01:31:05* You had to buy a dongle to trade the Game Boy Micro. *01:31:06* But um yeah, Megas and Z-Moves, too lethal of a combination, I think, competitively when you start looking at it at that angle. *01:31:09* But the other battle mechanic SOS battles, I think are very cool and some of like the only ways you can get certain Pokemon, if I'm correct. *01:31:20* So you have to SLS battles, it's a battle. *01:31:32* You fight one Pokemon. *01:31:36* You get at lower health, it's more likely, or use items, it's more likely to call like, oh no, I'm dying. *01:31:38* Someone helped me and then a random Pokemon, usually the same species, but a very low chance to be another, appears around the same level *01:31:44* I think there's some really cool things they did with this. *01:31:53* Like you could catch Toxapex Pre-Evolution by doing SOS battles, which is a very good Pokemon, but that's like the best way to get it. *01:31:56* in my personal favorite, the Bagons at the beginning. *01:32:07* You can SOS battle them and then all of a sudden they're like, someone help me, and it's like, okay, a Salamance appears. *01:32:11* That's like level five. *01:32:18* It may be a 1% chance. *01:32:19* But I did that and I think it's the funniest thing ever because you're just walking around it's like hello this is my Rowlet and my salamids fight me. *01:32:22* I think there's some really cool things they did with that. *01:32:30* I wish they would have done more crazy things with that *01:32:33* But being able to like continuously fight the same Pokemon, which gets better stats the more longer you keep an SLS streak on, you get higher chance for a shiny Pokemon. *01:32:36* Or in the case of Salandit *01:32:47* Hey, I'm gonna fight this one slanded and that's a male. *01:32:50* I'm gonna keep fighting and get it to call for people and hopefully it brings a female one at some point so I can catch and evolve that one. *01:32:53* I think there's some really cool things with that *01:32:59* And just an endless gauntlet and seeing how far you can go with that is sometimes fun too. *01:33:02* I think I've had a 78 streak before. *01:33:07* And that's because I ran out of PP. *01:33:12* So I was like, yeah, I will die if I continue going on. *01:33:14* You just gotta drink some water, stay hydrated. *01:33:18* Exactly. *01:33:22* Um I liked how the SOS stuff was implemented in the totem battle specifically. *01:33:23* And this is one aspect of the game when I first played, um, and I talked about how I bounced off. *01:33:29* I don't think they *01:33:34* It wasn't until like the third or fourth totem battle that I like lost outright. *01:33:36* And I was like, oh, there's a lot of like strategic *01:33:41* depth to how this system can work because the Tonem Pokemon are always super charged up in some sort of manner and they can really deal out a lot of damage. *01:33:46* So you're not you're not sure if you should take down their lackey that they've called in to help them, or if you should try to just focus on taking down the totem Pokemon because it's the one that's hitting you the hardest more often than not. *01:33:55* The totem Pokemon. *01:34:07* Sometimes No, I learned take out the totem is is the lesson here because it will always call back up. *01:34:09* See, I did not care about it. *01:34:16* I did not care for this SOS mechanic because it just it *01:34:18* Well, I think I think like I think it's annoying. *01:34:22* Like I said though, I think it made the totem battles actually challenging. *01:34:24* This is the the reason one of the big reasons I like this game is I think that this is actually one of the *01:34:29* first challenging Pokemon games in quite some time. *01:34:34* Especially coming off of Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire for Us Max. *01:34:37* Those games were a cakewalk, like to the point where they were almost putting me to sleep at times. *01:34:42* Um *01:34:47* I was losing not constantly in this game, but like I was losing for the first time in a long time in a Pokemon game. *01:34:48* This game's hard. *01:34:55* It surprised me and it caught me off guard. *01:34:57* And there's a layer of strategy that you have to *01:34:59* figure out with again with the SOS mechanics and the totem battles and stuff. *01:35:03* They took me take took a bit of getting used to for sure. *01:35:08* And I I don't think there's any right answer either to this. *01:35:13* Um, kinda like max *01:35:19* You're saying there is. *01:35:21* Like I don't know. *01:35:22* Like because there were some. *01:35:23* I agree. *01:35:29* I agree with that, but there was some there was some one of the totems in in particular, there was like a tandem that I think one of them like buffed the other or something like that. *01:35:31* So it was like I didn't want the totem Pokemon to get any more *01:35:41* buffs uh as a result of the uh one that it called in via SOS. *01:35:46* So it's like I need to take out the one, this one as quickly as possible. *01:35:50* And that's what I'm saying. *01:35:53* Like there were the li different wrinkles in a lot of the different fights um that I felt like you kind of had to *01:35:54* uncover and it kept switching things up until the end. *01:36:00* So even in a game without gems I I found that the system was pretty *01:36:04* uh challenging at times. *01:36:09* I will say though I did not like the challenges overall. *01:36:10* Found them quite boring. *01:36:13* Uh other than the battles. *01:36:14* Run around the forest and find *01:36:16* Vegetables, so we can make a soup. *01:36:18* Oh, the soup lured in a big ol' Pokemon. *01:36:20* Oh my gosh! *01:36:23* Like some of that stuff is kind of goofy. *01:36:25* Um *01:36:28* Or go on the water and chase these fish down. *01:36:29* Please go into this cave and fight a large radicate or I know in the base game it's *01:36:32* Trump Weasel. *01:36:38* Um, it's the Panama version you have. *01:36:39* Oh, is it I thought Trump Weasel. *01:36:43* Yeah. *01:36:44* Oh, did you? *01:36:44* Yeah, Trump Weasel Sun, Moon is radicate. *01:36:45* Okay, and that's it. *01:36:48* So there's also *01:36:51* I think the dragon trial is the same in the vanilla games, but in Ultra Sun and Moon, you either have the dragon trial or the fairy trial. *01:36:52* So you fight a giant rhomby or you fight Komomo *01:37:02* And one alone. *01:37:06* So That's what I did. *01:37:09* That was not fun. *01:37:11* Did you fight Rombi then Logan? *01:37:13* I fought Kamolo. *01:37:14* I know with totem Pokemon you can collect, it's different in the versions. *01:37:17* I'm pretty sure the fights were different too. *01:37:21* But if not, then I thought there was one where I fought a Rombie, but maybe I'm *01:37:23* Incorrect on that. *01:37:27* Maybe I'm thinking of another fight at some point in the game. *01:37:29* There is sometimes, because they will call different Pokemon if you take out its side Pokemon. *01:37:32* Yeah. *01:37:37* I think the craziest one has always been oh I'm gonna fight the dragon Kamo surprise. *01:37:38* You think I'm gonna have like a little pre-evolution of me? *01:37:44* No *01:37:48* Here's a schizor. *01:37:49* And I'm like, what? *01:37:50* And it like screwed over my team because like, well, my fairy type's gonna die from this schizor *01:37:52* But I can't kill this dragon fast enough with it because I really didn't have a fairy type I was using at the time. *01:37:58* I just brought one because I was like, I'll just kill it because dragons won't hit me. *01:38:02* Big mistake. *01:38:06* But I think there's some dynamic stuff that they do are cool. *01:38:08* I think it does vary a little bit depending on the fight. *01:38:12* Like of what comes out. *01:38:14* But *01:38:17* The totem stuff with SOS battles, very good. *01:38:18* If they uh countered the type matchup of like, oh I can kill this easily. *01:38:22* No, you have to worry about me who will also kill you. *01:38:26* The rock, paper, scissors dynamic going on. *01:38:29* Yeah. *01:38:32* You know, out outside of the totem Pokemon though, just the like normal gameplay, like moment to moment gameplay. *01:38:33* Particularly in the battles, I just have to say I'm a really big fan of the battle menu in this game, the design of it *01:38:42* I uh at least in the DS entries of the game, I primarily use the touch screen to reach around and click. *01:38:49* And I just think the design of having *01:38:56* fight take up the right hand side of the screen and then Pokemon and Bag be on the left in two smaller sections. *01:38:59* I think it's very visually appealing and mechanically *01:39:05* Just sound. *01:39:08* It's easy to use. *01:39:09* It's clear. *01:39:09* It's concise. *01:39:10* The move, you know, this game has the feature that I really like, which is after you fight a Pokemon, it tells you what is effective or not effective against it. *01:39:11* helps my brain out a lot. *01:39:21* You can, you know, drill in and see what your moves do, or, you know, the stat of the move, the specs of it, so to speak. *01:39:23* And then also if you have that Z move, then that's on the left hand side. *01:39:30* I just think this is a really well designed menu. *01:39:34* And *01:39:37* I noticed that like the battles take place in the environment that you're in instead of just in a blank white room, you know, in some games where it's like, oh, you've been teleported to a white room where the battle is. *01:39:39* This actually *01:39:50* you're fighting in the forest or the beach or the water or what have you, which I think is really neat and cool, uh, to stay kind of immersed in this this world. *01:39:52* So *01:40:02* It's I like that basic stuff. *01:40:03* I do think there's a bit too much side mechanicky stuff. *01:40:05* Like, ah, come to our virtual Disney World and try that out or *01:40:09* Here can do you have this Pokemon? *01:40:14* I'll trade it for you to help my boyfriend with getting his Pokemon Dreams or here. *01:40:16* Play Pokemon Snap, but at two frames a second on the 3DS with the gyroscope. *01:40:23* So *01:40:28* That's the worst part. *01:40:29* Yeah, that's pretty bad. *01:40:31* So that that wasn't the side stuff wasn't great, but I think the the moment to moment. *01:40:32* was actually pretty good, especially in the battles. *01:40:37* Um it just felt good to battle. *01:40:40* One thing I don't feel like we've talked about too much outside of um *01:40:42* The Ultra Beast, and we mentioned that there's some like different Alolan forms of Kanto Pokemon and stuff like that. *01:40:47* I know you you talked about that, Max. *01:40:52* Well one common thing I think we've been doing all throughout this *01:40:54* season so far and all these different episodes is just broadly taking a look at the Pokedex and like what we think about it. *01:40:57* And Grant knows this because him and I chatted about this a bit, or maybe I talked to you about it too, Max. *01:41:03* It's just I don't think there is I I don't think there are good Pokedexes in a lot of these later games. *01:41:10* There's always something missing. *01:41:16* um in each of these games. *01:41:18* Like for this one, for instance, why are there like no electric Pokemon in this game? *01:41:20* Like there are a couple, like there's a the the Vicavolt, which is the bug electric type, and then there's the new sort of *01:41:24* rat Pikachu thing that's a totem Pokemon that you fight. *01:41:32* Like there's just a couple. *01:41:36* Again, there all of the all of the different Pokedexes I feel like index too heavily into *01:41:39* A couple types, like too much water in this one. *01:41:46* There's too much. *01:41:49* I know we've played some in the past where it's like, why are there so many grass types in this? *01:41:50* Why are there so many bug types? *01:41:53* Like I feel like there's a lot of *01:41:55* Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of bug types in this in this Pokedex for some reason. *01:41:57* Um and strangely, since this is one of the maybe I'm totally wrong on this, you guys didn't tell me, but uh uh considering this is the second *01:42:02* Second gen in the series to have fairy type, I believe, because that was introduced in X and Y. *01:42:11* There's a pretty big lack of fairy types, I believe, in this d decks as well, especially when it comes to the *01:42:16* When I t when I say all these things too, I want to specify that I'm talking about like new new Pokemon, not returning Pokemon or not Pokemon from other regions or various forms or whatever. *01:42:22* Like for example, like when I say there's not a lot of electric types, like *01:42:33* They make like Geodude's an electric type in this game for some reason, which is just which is fine. *01:42:37* It's kind of cool, but um there's a lot of ghost types in this decks as well. *01:42:42* I don't know *01:42:48* Um, how apparent that was to some of you guys. *01:42:49* I don't know. *01:42:51* And then there's a huge lack of like Pokemon that I feel like evolve. *01:42:51* as well. *01:42:57* Um there are just single Pokemon in this game. *01:42:58* And even when they do evolve, they don't evolve. *01:43:02* much or they evolve in certain ways. *01:43:06* Like Grant mentioned uh Salandit and it evolves into Salazal, but only if it's a female salazal and the percentage of the finding a female salazal is like *01:43:08* 10%, 12%, something like that. *01:43:17* There's just a lot of instances throughout this deck that I think are a little *01:43:20* odd. *01:43:25* And I don't think it's a horrible one, but it left a lot to be desired for me. *01:43:26* How how how did you feel about this, Max? *01:43:32* I'm curious with you specifically because I know you mentioned that you like the *01:43:34* Aloland forms of the Canto Pokemon in particular and stuff like that. *01:43:39* Yeah, I liked it because they're Pokemon I know in a sea of *01:43:44* over uh aren't we over a thousand now, the whole decks on a whole? *01:43:49* Like in the sea of a thousand Pokemon, it's nice to be able to recognize some of them and then have those be different types and visually look different. *01:43:53* you know, you know, like Sand True's ice now. *01:44:03* So like that's a way to shake it up for someone like me who's kind of only really familiar with the old stuff and but keep it fresh in a way, right? *01:44:05* So that's kind of cool. *01:44:17* But then you get to the like these ultra beasts just don't uh they're just *01:44:19* a bunch of funky looking creatures and The ultra beasts are cool. *01:44:27* I think you would like them to be a little bit more. *01:44:30* They're cool. *01:44:31* They're cool. *01:44:32* But it's I don't know. *01:44:32* They don't feel *01:44:34* Grounded in the world. *01:44:36* That's why they're cool. *01:44:38* That's why they're cool. *01:44:39* Because they all come from their own dimensions and you have to go to these different dimensions and worlds to catch them. *01:44:40* And it's really neat. *01:44:45* That's the point. *01:44:47* They aren't supposed to be like Pokemon at all. *01:44:48* They're just sort of shoved in there like *01:44:51* Hello, these are different dimension things. *01:44:53* They don't make sense in our world. *01:44:55* They don't make sense in Pokemon world, but now they're Pokemon come here. *01:44:57* They're basically aliens. *01:45:01* It's kind of it's it's really cool actually. *01:45:03* Well *01:45:06* I was like, I don't know about this. *01:45:07* Oh, it's like one of the worst ones. *01:45:14* Yeah, it's like a wall with a disco ball on its own. *01:45:15* Oh, that's right. *01:45:18* Oh, Blaze. *01:45:19* I was like, I don't know about this guy. *01:45:20* No, Buzzwall Yes, very good. *01:45:22* But he's Guzzlord, you go to his world and he has like destroyed an entire town and it's just like in shambles and he's eaten everything *01:45:24* And it is actually one of the towns from the game if you look around. *01:45:34* So it's an alternate dimension of one of those towns. *01:45:37* I don't remember which one. *01:45:41* He's basically like Godzilla ravaged this city and has like eaten everybody *01:45:43* And then you have to catch 'em. *01:45:48* So it's it's it's cool. *01:45:50* Yeah. *01:45:53* Uh I just this dex just feels very a lot of the Pokemon look very samey. *01:45:54* And that confuses my poor little old man brain. *01:46:00* And I do think there was like a lot of ground rock type Pokemon, which was *01:46:05* frustrating because th there's a lot of water on the other side of things, so that's like a Well I really don't want to do this because it's fairly counterable. *01:46:10* So it just it *01:46:20* I wasn't thrilled with this Pokedex. *01:46:22* Wasn't thrilled with it. *01:46:24* Which is a bummer. *01:46:26* I haven't been thrilled in a while. *01:46:28* There's not a lot of new water types. *01:46:30* I do feel like they index heavily into bug in this one. *01:46:31* One of the other things I wanted to mention too, which I kind of *01:46:33* uh said before is like how you have to evolve things in strange ways um for those that do have evolutions like I think of Vicavolt *01:46:37* Again, it's one of the only electric types in the game, but you can't evolve it from a chargebug until you get to the power plant area, and then you have to specifically evolve it. *01:46:45* in proximity to the power plant. *01:46:54* And this is also true of Crab Brawler, which is like one of the Pokemon you can get earliest in the game. *01:46:56* You can evolve it into the *01:47:02* Crabominable? *01:47:05* Yeah, Crabominable. *01:47:06* But you can't do that until literally like near the very end of the game. *01:47:07* So it's like, why are they giving you a little bit of a snowy *01:47:11* place. *01:47:14* Yeah, you gotta go to a snowy place and that doesn't you don't get that until near the end of the game. *01:47:14* So it's just like there's weird decisions like that made kind of scattered throughout this Pokedex that I don't *01:47:18* understand. *01:47:26* And again, I don't think it's bad, um, but a lot of the Pokemon here *01:47:28* Aren't too memorable. *01:47:34* Um I do I w I do have to ask you though that this Max, uh what starter did you choose? *01:47:36* Well I thought we might talk about our teams after Grant shared his thoughts on the Pokedex, but uh I think we all chose the same starter. *01:47:43* I think we all chose Rowlet, I believe. *01:47:50* Yeah, I chose Greninja. *01:47:53* Oh and base sun. *01:47:55* Axes uh ashes greninja. *01:47:58* I tried to do that and it's like uh you have to have sun. *01:48:00* I was like, this is stupid. *01:48:03* I played this demo for nothing *01:48:06* Yep. *01:48:09* I got Rowlet also. *01:48:09* But I usually get Poplio. *01:48:11* I'm a Paplio fan. *01:48:14* Rowlit I chose because I was like, you know what, I'll do this. *01:48:17* And then I later on was like, I have a Greninja, so I have my starter. *01:48:20* There's a Pokemon that I want that's also Ghost Grass. *01:48:23* So screw it. *01:48:27* Buy Rowlet, no more. *01:48:27* I hate the po I hate the Poplio. *01:48:30* I think it has *01:48:33* The final form is cool. *01:48:35* The beginning form is cool. *01:48:37* The middle form stinks. *01:48:38* How this little clown. *01:48:40* looking seal doesn't evolve into a super clown seal, but instead some fairy mermaid *01:48:43* Beyond me. *01:48:51* I think it's a dumb design choice, but when I'm like, wow, this mermaid thing, I wonder what it evolved from. *01:48:52* Oh, a clown? *01:48:59* Very dumb. *01:49:00* But the typing, very cool water fairy. *01:49:02* I really like that, so a lot of the times I'm like, well, there's my fairy type, I'll just use this. *01:49:05* That that actually is probably the most interesting final typing for the starters here, I think. *01:49:11* Because Grass Ghost is another Pokemon. *01:49:17* It's not necessarily particularly unique and then Firedark is old fake. *01:49:19* My favorite thing about um *01:49:24* Uh what is it? *01:49:26* Um oh my gosh, is it Incineroar? *01:49:28* Incineroar? *01:49:30* Yeah. *01:49:32* My favorite thing about I don't know why I couldn't remember his name. *01:49:32* Uh my favorite thing about Incineroar is that it's a wrestling *01:49:35* cat thing. *01:49:39* So in your mind you'd be like, oh this is fire fighting and they're like, no, it's dark. *01:49:40* It's like Billy. *01:49:43* It's a heel. *01:49:44* This makes no sense to be dark because fire fighting is like the default *01:49:45* t fire d evolution line and they created a dark fur, so it's a dark Pokemon. *01:49:51* But I think I think there's an argument to be made that Incineroar more than any other Firestarter should be a fighting type. *01:49:58* First and foremost, more so than anything else. *01:50:05* Especially giving the Smash Brothers edition, you know, a rally. *01:50:08* Well, it's got like wrestling moves and stuff. *01:50:12* Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. *01:50:14* It's it and then so they're like, no, it's dark. *01:50:15* It's like *01:50:17* Try to think of all the firefighting types really quick. *01:50:19* Inferno Infernate, Blaziken. *01:50:21* Blaziken. *01:50:23* Blaziken. *01:50:24* And then after black and white, they went to *01:50:28* Del Fox. *01:50:31* So different, yeah. *01:50:32* So yeah, they had three firefighters in a row. *01:50:34* Skipped one and this *01:50:38* Design-wise looks like a firefighting, but I think it's funny that's dark and they're like, yeah, this Pokemon's basically a heel character from wrestling. *01:50:41* I'm like, that's pretty cool. *01:50:49* Also, shout out to the long neck executor *01:50:51* I have to give this a shout-out. *01:50:54* It's great. *01:50:56* Grass dragon, good type. *01:50:57* Also the Delmis, the anchor's really cool. *01:50:58* I wish I w I wanted to catch one, honestly, but it's so hard. *01:51:01* And it's hard. *01:51:05* It's a ghost type. *01:51:07* Why is it a ghost type? *01:51:08* It's gross ghost grass. *01:51:10* It's like what's ghost grass and then its ability makes steel moves hit like it's a steel type. *01:51:12* So it's *01:51:17* Almost like three types. *01:51:18* But then you have to catch it in water. *01:51:19* Yeah. *01:51:22* Don't ask questions. *01:51:23* It's so s it's so strange. *01:51:24* Um *01:51:26* I don't know. *01:51:28* Yeah, the the the decks isn't terrible, but um I wanted to I obviously we need to talk about uh music, but I know that's one of the final things we tend to do. *01:51:28* Or to kind of uh well we'll talk about music here and I know you want to talk about performance as well, Max. *01:51:38* Um what'd you guys think of the soundtrack in this one? *01:51:43* Because I thought it was largely *01:51:46* pretty darn good for the most part. *01:51:49* Oh I was so worried. *01:51:52* The way you were talking there I thought you were gonna say it was fine. *01:51:54* No, it's really good I think. *01:51:57* No, this sounds like dope. *01:51:58* It's very good. *01:52:01* The soundtrack's great. *01:52:02* Definitely best ripe or not rival villain evil team theme of all time when it comes to bosses. *01:52:03* Guzma's theme, hands down the best out of any single like evil team theme, in my opinion. *01:52:10* I I took notes specifically. *01:52:18* I was *01:52:20* I could see why you like this game so much because there was uh Akala, the island town there. *01:52:21* Persona trumpet vibes straight up in a cala. *01:52:30* I was like this is some persona music. *01:52:33* And then there's the coffee shop song when you go to the coffee shop and I was like, this is Grant music *01:52:36* Um I think this soundtrack's very diverse for a Pokemon game, and I don't think I've heard anything quite like it that we've played so far. *01:52:43* Maybe Scarlet and Violet, but that *01:52:52* They just it it has strong songs but not different this has different genres of music and types of music and uses different instruments. *01:52:55* I noticed for me in particular the observatory up at the top of the mountain, that's straight Battle Network Mega Man kind of vibes. *01:53:04* They fit the environments really well. *01:53:15* Even uh, you know, even Team Skull, as annoying as they are, their their music fits them in that way. *01:53:18* Um *01:53:26* Dulce Dulce, the the guy from the alternate dimension, you know, they have their own unique theme. *01:53:27* I this *01:53:33* Game's pretty dope. *01:53:35* And they got this electric guitar battle theme, Janutsi Masuda coming in again. *01:53:36* So I really like the soundtrack. *01:53:42* I think it's awesome. *01:53:44* I think of like my top ten music from all of Pokemon. *01:53:47* My top two are from Sun and Moon, which is Guzma theme. *01:53:52* Right below it, Ultra Necrozma theme. *01:53:57* Two masterpieces of music within a game. *01:54:00* Yeah, it's awesome. *01:54:04* I'm trying to think of the Okay, the Ultimate Crossman theme is very good. *01:54:06* I've got it pulled up here in the background. *01:54:10* Um *01:54:11* I think I think you spoke very well, Max, to kind of my thoughts on the soundtrack as a whole. *01:54:14* It's very diverse. *01:54:19* There's a lot of different things going on. *01:54:19* I think all the battle themes are really good in this game. *01:54:21* Um, and obviously I'm a sucker for when you get to the Rainbow Rocket stuff in the end and they start doing the new versions of all those themes. *01:54:23* from the classic game, uh like the rocket hideout theme while you're in it. *01:54:32* It's it's really cool. *01:54:36* Um the whole fight the that the whole *01:54:38* Rainbow Rocket episode thing there at the end as a really really neat tribute to just the entire series, which I really liked. *01:54:42* And I know we haven't talked about *01:54:51* the episode in particular too much. *01:54:53* But I think what's really cool about that in particular is that the Pokemon series often doesn't acknowledge itself as a whole too often. *01:54:55* Every game sort of feels kind of *01:55:04* siloed and like they'll make references here and there you know like oh I'm from Johto or I'm from Hohen or something. *01:55:07* Like you'll run into random characters like that. *01:55:13* But I feel like this game really kind of leaned into acknowledging the larger Pokemon world more so than a lot of others. *01:55:15* And the Rainbow Rocket stuff at the end, I mean, obviously does that. *01:55:22* very blatantly and very on the nose by bringing back all the old characters and stuff like that. *01:55:26* But I kind of wish the series did that more often as a whole, you know? *01:55:32* Like it makes it that much more special to people like. *01:55:35* Myself, I I I know you've been playing forever too, Max, but I know you took a long break. *01:55:39* But Matt, you Grant and I have largely played every single mainline Pokemon game that's come out since the nineties. *01:55:42* It's only 'cause some of these later entries here, like with Sun and Moon, where I didn't play them at launch. *01:55:48* And I think it's really Yeah, like there's just a there's a almost a thirty year history of Pokemon at this point, and I wish these newer games would do more to kind of *01:55:52* acknowledge everything that's come before. *01:56:02* So yeah, we were talking about music and I spun it off into s into something else, but um *01:56:04* Yeah, I don't know. *01:56:10* That's a that it's a that's a cool aspect of this game. *01:56:11* You should do it more in the future. *01:56:13* You there's some more stuff you can do. *01:56:16* So Rainbow Rocket's not the only returning characters in this game. *01:56:18* Let me pull up the list, because I can tell you Red, Blue, and Cynthia are in this game. *01:56:22* Um Well they're all in like the the battle area thing that you m mentioned to us, right? *01:56:27* Yes. *01:56:33* You can have about *01:56:34* Any character you can think of. *01:56:37* Hey, remember uh I'm pretty sure this is a Hoenn leader in here *01:56:39* There's just like random leaders and stuff where to go. *01:56:44* Wally's in the game, I know, as well. *01:56:48* Um from silver or from sapphire and ruby, red is in it, blue is in it *01:56:51* Um I mean even like you mentioned Max like with Samson Oak, it's like that's a cool callback. *01:56:56* Like, okay, cool. *01:57:01* Um, or is that Oak himself? *01:57:03* That is not Oak. *01:57:05* That is Samson Oak. *01:57:06* Supposed to be a play on Alolan forms. *01:57:07* It's Alolan form of that's the joke. *01:57:09* I thought it was like his brother or something like that. *01:57:13* But even that, like that's a the again, that's another reference to the larger series that's very on the nose. *01:57:17* Oh, very on the nose. *01:57:23* That I liked a lot. *01:57:25* So yeah, Morgan should do this. *01:57:27* There's a long history of characters and *01:57:29* I feel like the only thing that transitions from game to game is just the Pokemon. *01:57:32* And now that even doesn't happen all the time. *01:57:35* All that much. *01:57:38* Restore the National decks. *01:57:39* Hashtag restore the national decks. *01:57:40* Um yeah, this is the last Pokemon with a national dex, because then afterwards they're like no more dexic begins *01:57:43* Uh they're getting close with uh Scarlet and Violet, aren't they? *01:57:51* Because I know they're about to bring add like 200 more with the DLC, I believe. *01:57:54* Who cares? *01:57:59* It's probably like 600, there's another 400 to add until they add *01:58:00* Ultra beast which haven't been shown to be in the game and they will add the polyworld line. *01:58:04* I don't care. *01:58:10* We're ultra beast and we're ultra beast and sword and shield. *01:58:11* Yeah, with the *01:58:15* Crown Tundra, DLC. *01:58:16* Oh, okay, okay. *01:58:18* That makes sense. *01:58:20* Max, I know you want to talk about performance real quick, and then I think we can probably wrap things up here. *01:58:21* I just I wanted to give credit where credit is due. *01:58:26* We've played Alpha Sapphire. *01:58:31* Didn't run so hot all of the time and *01:58:33* I know X and Y doesn't run. *01:58:36* Prepare for X and Y. *01:58:37* So I you know, and then Scarlet and Violet did not and I don't believe has been fixed yet, so it's you know that is a rough *01:58:40* from a performance and even sword and shield had its issues. *01:58:48* But credit where credit's due, this game actually ran fairly well. *01:58:51* Spe I think that was *01:58:55* Game Freak coming to terms with the 3DS and really understanding the hardware at the end of their run with it. *01:58:57* And really the only time I noticed major performance hitches was in those *01:59:04* Uh totem Pokemon totem Pokemon battles, double battles. *01:59:09* Basically, anytime there was more than two Pokemon on screen, uh, it definitely chugged, which is a bummer. *01:59:13* Since totem Pokemon were a vital part of the narrative and pushing things forward. *01:59:22* But outside of that, it did run really well, which I can't say for the rest of, you know, these more modern games. *01:59:27* So I did want to, you know *01:59:33* Give credit where credit was due because uh I do think it's silly that it there's no 3D in the game though, on the three DS. *01:59:34* I always find it silly when *01:59:43* 3DS games had no 3D, but if you turned 3D on, it definitely would have died. *01:59:45* So I get it. *01:59:49* Yeah, I forgot that down the line they just like started like *01:59:51* completely foregoing things. *01:59:54* There's some games that even say in the front, playable in 2D only. *01:59:56* I think this is one of those, yeah, for sure. *02:00:00* I don't have the box near me. *02:00:02* Uh mine's right behind me, but I don't know where. *02:00:04* It's in a bag of some sort. *02:00:06* Do you guys have any last second things you would like to say here before we wrap up? *02:00:08* Any last-minute thoughts? *02:00:13* Any actually, I'll do this. *02:00:15* Grant, make your case on why you think this is the best of the best. *02:00:17* You need to do this. *02:00:20* Alright, best of the best. *02:00:22* Changes formula for the better. *02:00:23* You get in the vanilla game a challenge against the professor as the final boss. *02:00:26* Why was changed in Ultra Sun and Moon? *02:00:30* I don't know. *02:00:32* I'm usually an advocate for the vanilla games in this series *02:00:33* Definitely difficulty spike has jumped quite a bit. *02:00:36* I do think it is the hardest of the Pokemon games. *02:00:41* I don't think it gets any harder than this, especially on Ultra, when you fight in the Crozma, that's a pretty hard fight if you aren't prepared. *02:00:44* And you might have to do some grinding if you have a terrible team. *02:00:52* Removal of HMs, great decision. *02:00:55* Last national deck, so this is the most complete Pokedex, I would say, out of any Pokemon game. *02:00:58* All the ideas when it comes to Ultra Beast and involving a new dimension, I think, are implemented well with the Pokemon designs. *02:01:05* I do think they capture the Hawaii essence well within this game compared to other games. *02:01:14* It's not as done well, because black and white's like New York. *02:01:20* And Kanto and Johto are like Japan. *02:01:24* Hoen, I forget what it is. *02:01:27* It's Hohen and all the others. *02:01:29* It is? *02:01:32* Oh wow. *02:01:33* I just know Johto and Canto are like connected even on like on the map that they're inspired by. *02:01:34* But um I think this does the best overall with theming. *02:01:39* The introduction of different forms like Alola forms and then later on you get galar forms and whatever forms are in scarlet and violet. *02:01:44* I forget the *02:01:54* name of the region already. *02:01:55* Terastalizing. *02:01:56* No, no, no, no. *02:01:58* That that's bad. *02:01:59* Um being able to mix and match mechanics from previous games. *02:02:00* So Z moves and Mega Evolutions, very cool that they have them together because they remove like previous *02:02:05* Like different mechanics in games come on later because you get Giant Gantamax and then that's removed for terrasization. *02:02:13* Definitely callbacks to a lot of characters as we talked about. *02:02:21* Rocket teams, earlier red, blue fights, Cynthia, stuff like that. *02:02:25* I think some of the music is all over the place, but it's the best music of all because the genres they do well in each of them that they do. *02:02:30* Um I think the only big thing is beginning truck through, which I mean these games are not meant for adults half the time. *02:02:40* It's for a younger generation. *02:02:50* So they sometimes need that tutorial to get into an RPG, which it's not the best tutorial regardless. *02:02:52* I feel like that's just a Nintendo thing at large. *02:02:59* As somebody who At large nowadays, yes. *02:03:01* As somebody who's playing Pikmin 4, I feel like it's a Nintendo thing at large at times. *02:03:04* Except for maybe like Zelda or something like that. *02:03:09* Zelda doesn't have a tutorial anymore. *02:03:13* It's just like, here's a world, be free. *02:03:15* Um trying to think. *02:03:17* Compared the other things *02:03:20* Yeah, I think it does what it sets out to do, which is be different Hawaiian theme, have this different dimension theme area of your Pokedex. *02:03:23* And music, the best of any game. *02:03:35* When it comes to story, there's only one game that beats it, but that's about it. *02:03:39* So with all those across the line, I think that's the best out of any Pokemon game. *02:03:44* If you value story, this is not the game for you. *02:03:49* There is one game that you will play later. *02:03:53* Called black and white, which will have hands down the best story, but I think everything else falls flat. *02:03:56* That's not the best story, are you kidding me? *02:04:02* In Scarlet and Violet, you feed a dog sandwiches to heal. *02:04:04* Oh yeah, I forgot, never mind. *02:04:08* I thought that person was gonna turn evil with that *02:04:14* No, he's just a dog lover boy who's big old Subway sandwiches. *02:04:18* It's so good. *02:04:24* It's so so good. *02:04:25* But yes, everything *02:04:27* is the best within this game from Pokédex music everything. *02:04:29* Story is a little bit behind on maybe an entry I can be confident saying it's behind black and white in *02:04:32* It could be behind others, depending on person, but besides that, best than everything else, it does *02:04:39* I mean just for you Max, where do you where would you put this one if you were to I mean I think w one when we get to the end of the season we'll do like a maybe proper ranking between you and *02:04:47* This is definitely one of my top games that we've played so far. *02:04:57* I felt more engaged with this one, I think, over the course of it. *02:05:00* than I have with some of the more recent games that we've played. *02:05:05* That's good because I know we put more time into this one or it it took us a longer time I guess to get to where we're *02:05:09* Recording, yes. *02:05:15* I mean same amount of game time, roughly. *02:05:17* But I really did enjoy this game quite a bit. *02:05:19* It's like I said at the top, the the bits and pieces I really enjoyed. *02:05:22* I do think some of it doesn't necessarily come together on the whole, but each battle was *02:05:27* engaging and most were difficult, especially toward the end of the game. *02:05:36* There were real challenges where I really felt like I had to prepare and strategize, which I can't say for Pokemon on, you know, the whole *02:05:41* If you have the right types, it's it's usually fairly easy. *02:05:49* So it was cool to be met with a challenge, especially kind of halfway through our season. *02:05:54* And I'm excited to see where we go from here. *02:05:58* Looking forward to, you know, back to the the other only game that I had played before the season with Diamond. *02:06:02* I was gonna say for me there's about to be a steep drop off ahead because I do not like Diamond Pro. *02:06:09* Good thing I'm not on that one, otherwise I would roast you alive for that terrible game. *02:06:15* No, I'm excited. *02:06:21* I'm really, really excited to go back to that. *02:06:22* I'm not looking forward to X and Y necessarily, but then the black and white games, I've heard so much good. *02:06:24* You should look forward to X and Y just 'cause it's a new one. *02:06:31* I feel like personally. *02:06:33* Like anything new, I feel like there's gotta be some level of interest for you. *02:06:35* And I'll say this, I think X and Y actually has a decent Pokedex based on what I remembered. *02:06:39* Better than this game in terms of new Pokemon strictly, I think. *02:06:43* Okay. *02:06:49* But Ultrasun, Ultra Moon, or Sun and Moon. *02:06:50* I'm *02:06:54* Actually I came out more positive and liking it more than I thought I was going to, which I think is really good. *02:06:55* And I think this one could have gone either way for both you and I. *02:07:02* I didn't know how we were gonna feel about this one. *02:07:06* So I'm glad we both liked it. *02:07:08* It's good stuff. *02:07:10* It's good, good stuff. *02:07:10* Well, I think that does it for our discussion on Pokemon Sun, Moon, Ultra Sun, Ultra Moon, depending on your preference. *02:07:12* Thank you all so much for listening. *02:07:18* If you like the show, you know, you can subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, you know, rate the show. *02:07:20* You can follow us at chapter select. *02:07:25* If you'd like to follow Logan on Twitter, you can do so over at Moreman12 and his writing over at comicbook. *02:07:28* com. *02:07:34* You can follow myself on Twitter at Max Roberts143 and my writing over at maxfrequency. *02:07:34* net *02:07:40* Grant, uh Grant likes coffee a lot. *02:07:41* Your Twitter is private, so I don't think sending people there would make much sense. *02:07:43* Is there anything you'd like the people to *02:07:48* to look at at all. *02:07:50* If you wanna follow me, follow me on this brand new app made by the Zuck himself called Threads. *02:07:52* It will be Grant *02:07:58* Double underscore Callahan and you should be able to find me there. *02:07:59* That is probably where I will migrate to. *02:08:03* But besides that *02:08:06* Maybe Instagram same name even though it's private right now. *02:08:07* I'll probably open it up in the near future soon. *02:08:11* So keep an eye out for that. *02:08:13* Where I'll probably talk about coffee more than games, but there'll probably be a good mix *02:08:14* Alright, coffee and games. *02:08:19* Persona, Pokemon and Coffee. *02:08:20* What a combo. *02:08:23* It's it's cool. *02:08:24* I mean, they do come together quite well. *02:08:25* They're essentially *02:08:27* The same thing. *02:08:29* It's all the same. *02:08:31* So you can go check Grana over on Threads and Instagram. *02:08:32* And then a thank you to our members who support the show directly. *02:08:36* You can learn more by going to listeningwithsuperpower. *02:08:39* com. *02:08:42* So thank you to all our members. *02:08:43* And until next time, adios. *02:08:44* Or should I have said Alola? *02:08:48* Chapter Select is a max frequency production. *02:08:50* Chapter Select is supported by you. *02:08:53* You can gain access to longer episodes and bonus content by going to chapterselect. *02:08:55* com forward slash join. *02:09:01* This episode was research, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *02:09:03* Season six is hosted by Logan Moore and myself *02:09:07* Season six is all about Pokemon. *02:09:10* For more on the season, go to chapterselect. *02:09:13* com forward slash season six. *02:09:15* You can follow the show at Chapter Select and check out previous seasons at chapterselect. *02:09:17* com. *02:09:23*