# Chapter Select, [[S6E8 - Pokémon X and Y]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- I just want it because uh so I can watch football and play my PS five at the same time. *00:00* Well no you can't. *00:04* You can't do that. *00:06* Watch it. *00:07* No he means on his TV and then you watch football on your TV. *00:08* Okay. *00:11* Yeah yeah yeah. *00:12* Yeah, no, yeah, no see yeah, like that that case it's pretty good. *00:13* But you can already do that on your phone. *00:16* Just get like a razor key she for like a hundred bucks and do it. *00:18* I'd rather just well to be honest. *00:22* Can't you use your Vita? *00:24* Is doesn't remote play work to the Vita still? *00:25* On PS5 games? *00:30* You don't have haptic feedback. *00:32* You don't have two triggers either. *00:34* Oh yeah, no, you're right. *00:36* You're right. *00:37* I did it all the time with the PS4, so I kinda just assumed it. *00:39* Carried over. *00:42* Yeah. *00:44* Oh my goodness. *00:44* How are you, Tomas? *00:45* Good, good. *00:47* Busy week I'm reviewing uh Forza and Assassin's Creed, and they both have the same embargo for next week. *00:48* Have you started Assassin's Creed yet? *00:54* No, I haven't. *00:57* We ask for a week. *00:58* When does Assassin's Creed come out? *01:00* Is that close? *01:02* Next week. *01:03* Oh my gosh. *01:04* Yeah. *01:06* Oh, next month is crazy. *01:06* There's like a new game every two days that's like notable. *01:08* It's Assassin's Creed, Dallas, Spider-Man, Assassin's Creed. *01:11* Hellboy game, yeah. *01:15* Yeah *01:16* If there was an Assassin's Creed game to get me to like come back, it could be this, because it's supposed to be so *01:17* I'm interested in what I think because I've never really liked Assassin's Creed that much. *01:25* Dude, be careful. *01:30* Be careful. *01:32* You'll get blacklisted. *01:33* I'm not going to do the Sonic thing again. *01:35* This is kind of the thing I can't I have not understood when I see this game. *01:37* I have a code too. *01:40* I might start dabbling with it. *01:41* But like I don't think those old Assassin's Creed games are like all that amazing. *01:43* And I definitely don't think they've probably held up super well to like open world standards. *01:47* Yeah. *01:51* Far cry is like better in terms of the open world stuff. *01:52* Yeah. *01:56* Like, yeah. *01:56* To see that people have been like pining for *01:57* An Assassin's Creed game like this. *02:00* I'm like, I don't know if you like understand what you're asking for in some sense, and we'll see if you want to play it. *02:01* Yeah, I think it's more that they just didn't like that the they were so grindy, like Valhalla and Odyssey. *02:07* I think it was more people just got tired of grinding and were like, Oh, that means the old thing's amazing and it's like, no, it means the old thing's better. *02:14* But *02:21* But that doesn't mean like amazing. *02:22* I do think Assassin's Creed, to me at least, the reason I dropped besides poor ship controls and black flag was just it got I felt like it just got so *02:24* bloated. *02:34* And Valhalla and Odyssey I think are really exemplify that. *02:35* They're just entirely different types of games now. *02:38* But I think there's something to be said theoretically, obviously I don't know how long the game is, but I imagine this is a much shorter game than *02:40* Those they say twenty hours, which means like twelve. *02:49* That sounds so good. *02:52* I I Yeah compared to Valhalla's how how long to beat Valhalla. *02:53* That's fine. *02:59* It's like 60 to 70, 80. *03:01* That's crazy. *03:04* Like, I think that sounds really enticing. *03:06* Yeah. *03:08* And then if you go on and do all the DLC or you know *03:10* Yeah, oh yeah, it's like hundreds of it. *03:14* Man's insides is 96 and a half hours. *03:16* Like what? *03:19* Yeah. *03:20* And there's also a lot of like grindy systems in that where there's like all like the gear and RPG sh *03:20* And you can like pay to make it go faster. *03:26* What if I just wanna, you know, do a leap of faith off a church tower and you know land on a pill of hay building in f rural England. *03:29* Oh my gosh. *03:42* Well, I hope it's good. *03:43* Gosh, how so you've been playing Forza then I imagine? *03:45* Yeah, yeah. *03:49* It's simple. *03:50* It's good at what it does. *03:51* I was watching uh I was watching Digital Fantasy's preview while cooking dinner. *03:52* It looks very pretty. *03:56* It's still *03:57* Yeah, oh yeah, it is. *03:58* It's gorgeous. *03:59* It can't do 4K 60 FPS with array tracing though. *04:00* Like you have to sacrifice the resolution. *04:04* So like I'm convinced no game can actually do that on like the current systems. *04:06* Like because this is like *04:10* This is the game that would do it if it could. *04:12* Um The closest it yeah. *04:15* I think like the closest would be *04:17* I forget the frame rate though. *04:20* Yeah, so it does it's GT7, because GT7 in replays only, I think does 4K 60. *04:22* Yeah. *04:29* But it can't do it in gameplay. *04:30* Yeah, so what it is is it's it does have a 4K sixty mode, which is impressive. *04:31* But then there's also um you can do performance ray tracing, which gives you ray tracing on the cars, but not the tracks. *04:36* And then the game runs at 60, but then they can like lower the resolution from like pure 4K to like lower when they need to. *04:45* I mean they do Insomniac does that in all their games. *04:54* They've got the Spider-Man stuff and Ratchet and Clink. *04:57* I think the battles they do is pretty cool. *05:01* I'm excited to see what Spidey offers up. *05:03* The ray tracing's amazing. *05:06* Like when when you do the front of car view, you can just see the entire reflection of the track on your hood, which is like a really cool effect. *05:08* Uh man. *05:16* Yeah. *05:16* I'm *05:17* I ca GT7 got me into into like that sim racer more than an Arcade one. *05:18* So I'm actually really interested in Forza motorsport for the first time. *05:25* It's also I actually like uh its its difficulty also is better than um Gran Turismo because it gives you a lot of customization so you can make it like as hard or as easy as you want. *05:29* And they have like a ton of little *05:39* Things you can do. *05:41* GT's pretty locked to this is you this is this is the It's like an exponential curve that just gets more difficult as you go. *05:42* Yeah. *05:49* Yeah. *05:49* It seems cool. *05:50* So got but they have the same embargo. *05:51* Oh I guess they're both out next. *05:53* Yeah. *05:54* Yeah, they're both everything's about to have the same embargo, probably. *05:56* Well, uh Giovanni's reviewing Mario and Spider-Man and Detective Pikachu. *05:59* So he's got like a ton of shit. *06:06* Does he have any of them yet? *06:08* Uh I think has Pikachu. *06:09* No, Pikachu hasn't gone out yet. *06:12* That was the weird thing. *06:13* We were like hoping to have Pikachu. *06:14* Yeah. *06:16* I think Spider-Man goes out like within a week from now. *06:16* I would think so, because they just went gold a couple weeks ago, right? *06:20* A week or two ago. *06:24* Yeah. *06:25* Sony's usually good about doing like two to three weeks beforehand. *06:26* And we're finally like in their good graces. *06:30* Why Thomas, why do you keep ending up at places that are outside of the good graces of Sony? *06:34* No. *06:39* Yeah. *06:40* Well no, so so *06:41* We digital trends admit so we weren't in bad with Sony. *06:42* We were just on like the tier two for a while. *06:46* So like we'd get the codes in the second round. *06:48* Uh *06:51* Like uh but but now I think like Giovanni like my editor has done some schmoozing so I we're we're in that like first group now. *06:52* Yeah. *06:59* I definitely did some schmoozing when we I went to the Spider-Man. *07:00* I was like, I need to find this lady I've been emailing with. *07:04* And like I made sure to like introduce myself and say like hi. *07:07* You invited me and we've been talking and we've never met and hello and blah blah blah blah blah and good. *07:12* So yeah. *07:18* Yeah. *07:19* And then then Sega tried blacklisting us. *07:19* But then we called him out and we're like, this is really stupid. *07:22* And 47 was like, yeah. *07:24* And how do you think? *07:26* I like this idea that you're blacklisted by like Sonic at the Hedgehog Twitter account doesn't like Tomas. *07:27* I like that *07:33* uh picturing this. *07:34* Well well I'm convinced that he was blacklisted specifically by like a guy in Japan who didn't know. *07:35* No, no, I was gonna say the guy in prison. *07:41* He called it in from prison. *07:44* He's like, I read this review from my jail cell. *07:45* Fan him. *07:48* Yeah, yeah. *07:49* Yuji Naka? *07:50* Yeah. *07:51* Yeah. *07:52* Yeah. *07:52* Yeah. *07:53* Hey, I I wrote a positive preview for Battle in Wonderworld, so I don't know what the fuck you're doing about. *07:54* So are you gonna review the Sonic Super whatever game? *07:59* We're not sure. *08:06* It depends who's you should do it. *08:06* I feel like you I feel like you have to be the de facto Sonic reviewer now. *08:09* I'll I'll do it. *08:15* It's it's like if it's a good game. *08:16* I know that. *08:19* So yeah. *08:21* It's like like I'm not gonna *08:22* I've been considering I wanted to do a like Sonic the Hedgehog one year or Sonic Frontiers one year later. *08:30* Like for my review thing. *08:37* I don't know if I'll have the time, but I think that'd be a good one to be like Is it actually like what do I just reflect on? *08:38* I think that that would be clever. *08:45* But it does seem Logan and I were just talking about this because we did a show last week. *08:46* Um and you guys seem very busy. *08:52* October's like more nutty than I feel like it almost at least it feels like it snuck up on me. *08:55* But obviously you guys are your ears are like Mario, Spider-Man, Forza, Assassin's Creed, Alan Wake. *09:01* It is a Yeah, it's I mean since since August, like Baldur's Gate 3 hit, and it's it was just like there's been something every like couple of weeks or wasn't Baldur's Gate originally a stadia exclusive *09:09* I thought about that today. *09:23* Yes, I I I wrote an article on this like a month ago. *09:25* I think Stadia and PC, right? *09:29* Yes, yeah. *09:32* And it was gonna have a bunch of Stadia exclusive features and stuff. *09:33* Like what you what you would have been able to do is if you had it on Stadia, you could get a link uh that you could share and it'd just be your save state. *09:37* So like imagine me like *09:47* If I wanted to share my save file, I could just boot it up on Stadia, get that link, give it to you, and then you could enter my save and then use its cross-save functionality to play that on PS5. *09:49* Wow. *10:01* It it would have been a neat way. *10:02* That's like that's that's the like high level pitch that Stadia never got to because Google was dumb. *10:04* But like that was the idea. *10:10* You know, seeing the reception that Baldur's Gate has been getting *10:13* I was thinking about it today. *10:17* I was like, dang, imagine if that was locked to Stadia in a way. *10:18* I'm curious if it would be as widely talked about. *10:24* Right? *10:27* Like it still would have been a good game. *10:28* If Stadia launched yeah. *10:29* If Stadia launched with in like twenty twenty-two *10:32* It would have been gotten better because they would have had more games. *10:36* 'Cause that that was their problem, is that like they did the soft launch, but then they acted like it was the real launch, so then it it didn't really have anything. *10:39* I wonder, you know, it's like I wonder what they lost with uh *10:46* Oh, what's her name? *10:51* Assassin's Creed Lady Jade Raymond? *10:52* And like Haven? *10:55* Like what was she or Yeah. *10:56* Well they they lost the PS5 exclusive. *10:57* Oh yeah. *11:04* She's got a badge. *11:05* She's been to like EA Motive and then her and Kim Swift is the other one. *11:06* Um she did Portal and then she was at *11:11* Stadia and now she's at Microsoft doing their code. *11:14* I think of Shannon Stud still quite a bit. *11:18* I wonder if she still because she went over there, but then she when they shut down, she went to like a web three thing. *11:21* And so I'm curious if she's still I know I think Yeah, I know like I don't know if either of you watch Psychodyssey, but I think Anna Kipnas from that *11:29* also went to stadia and she's still at Google just doing AI stuff. *11:39* At least she got a stay at the company. *11:42* So Shannon Stud still is still doing she's she co-founded a company called Luda. *11:44* Like ludicrous. *11:51* Um, lifting people through play and it looks Oh boy uh *11:53* We're using the blockchain to unlock new gameplay possibilities. *12:03* Yeah, I remember this. *12:08* They have a big like *12:10* fairy goblin kind of aesthetic to the team, very like those NFT kind of designs. *12:12* Like Shannon has her own NFT looking icon. *12:19* It's just so *12:23* Sad. *12:26* Yeah. *12:28* What was so funny is every PR person who emailed me web three stuff constantly. *12:29* Started emailing me AI stuff about like six months ago. *12:34* So it's really funny to see like the the shift in the tech industry where it's like, oh now that's the like money trend everyone's chasing. *12:38* You just would think that *12:46* they would I don't know, these people are super smart and they've helped bring some of the greatest games, you know, that we've ever seen out, and now they're like out fiddling with *12:49* Seems like Vaporware. *12:59* Michael Mumbauer's the same over with because he started That's No Moon and then left a year later and is doing uh it's not called Ashfall anymore, but Ashfall. *13:00* Yeah. *13:12* I mean there there's even if you if you look back in the day too, there's people like designers from like the nineties that are like at mobile companies now and you're like John Tobias, what are you doing? *13:12* You made Mortal Kombat. *13:23* Yeah. *13:25* I mean uh what's his face? *13:25* Um oh Jason Rubin from Naughty Dog. *13:28* He's over at Microsoft. *13:33* He's do or not Microsoft, Facebook. *13:34* He's doing or Meta, I'm sorry. *13:35* He does the meta quest stuff. *13:37* Yeah. *13:39* And then so at least I guess it's kinda gaming, but it's just really you wanna work for *13:39* The money's good, I guess. *13:48* Um and the tech is cool. *13:49* Where is Grand Theft Auto San Andreas Quest? *13:51* Where is it? *13:55* Give me the scoop, Tomas. *13:55* Oh, I don't know. *13:58* I need the scoop, right? *13:59* I thought that was gonna be their big reveal at the meta showcase, and then it was like Asgard's Wrath 2 *14:00* I saw the announcement. *14:07* I didn't even know there was a showcase today until I saw like news popping up about it. *14:08* I was like, oh. *14:12* Oh wait, there was a showcase today for it? *14:13* I just saw the announcement for the date and the headset. *14:15* Yeah. *14:17* It's cool. *14:18* There's that YouTube channel, like Kurtzkagat or however you say it, is getting a video game. *14:18* That looks cool. *14:22* I don't know if you've watched them before. *14:23* Oh. *14:25* Oh wait, they're *14:26* Oh they are? *14:27* Yeah, it's it's like a VR game where you're like a meta quest 3 game *14:29* Oh s I'm actually that actually sounds super dope. *14:35* Um I love that channel. *14:39* I hope it comes to to VR uh PSVR. *14:40* VR2, yeah. *14:43* Yeah. *14:44* I just had a I just had a thought. *14:46* Sorry. *14:47* Go ahead, Domax. *14:48* Oh I was gonna just ask Tomas. *14:49* Um you're you're into the VR, right? *14:51* You've you uh So I I PSVR two was my first VR. *14:54* That's right. *14:59* I remember reading your review because Yeah. *14:59* Oh gosh. *15:02* He just started. *15:02* And it's Er what? *15:03* So I clicked on the Kutzgrat YouTube channel and the video started. *15:06* So I heard his voice. *15:10* Yeah. *15:11* Uh yeah, yeah. *15:12* So yeah, that was my first one. *15:13* Um it's been somewhat underwhelming. *15:14* Like it turns out that every game's just like, what new way can we have you reload a gun? *15:17* And there's like seven different ways to *15:22* That's why when you told me you were gonna play RE4 Max, I was like, wow, really, again? *15:24* Like not to undersell that remake, but it just at some point it does all seem very similar, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. *15:28* Well, that's what I wanted to ask Tomas was if he was interested in RE4 in VR because No, I'm not I'm not really a horror guy that much like it *15:38* So That's okay. *15:48* Cause that's what I played it on Quest. *15:49* So when we played it for the show, we I was like, well, you did the Quest version? *15:52* Well, we hadn't decided like locked it in that we were really doing Resident Evil. *15:58* So I was like, well, I I got a quest. *16:02* I was like, I want to play Resident Evil. *16:04* Everyone talks about it. *16:05* So I played ninety percent of it in VR. *16:06* And then we did the show, so I played it normal on PS4. *16:09* And then we played the remake, and now it's coming to VR. *16:12* And I'm I think the quest version is the best. *16:16* Just the way you move and done play and all this stuff. *16:18* And so in my brain *16:22* Playing that, but with the visuals of the remake sounds like truly my the best way to play Resident Evil 4. *16:26* So I'm all amped. *16:32* And then Logan's like it's like not *16:33* Connected at all. *16:35* That's like the weird thing. *16:36* It's like it's like who knows? *16:37* Like it'll be interesting to compare the two when it comes out. *16:40* Don't like trapping myself in VR. *16:44* It's not. *16:46* Yeah. *16:47* Okay. *16:47* It's *16:48* It's not as great. *16:48* And the best games are the ones that do interesting things with perspective. *16:49* Like I like Moss and like another fisherman's tale, where it's like like *16:53* It's neat at first to be like, oh, it's my hand and I have a gun. *16:58* Um, like occasionally, but after a while, like that's not that interesting. *17:01* It's cooler when they're like, oh, what neat stuff can we do with your perspective? *17:05* Uh and also like shorter stuff too where it's like like my favorite VR game is like a zombie land VR shooter because it's it's literally just like a light gun game. *17:09* Um *17:20* And it's you can like put the headset on for like five minutes and have like fun with it. *17:21* Yeah. *17:26* I think that's the cool stuff. *17:26* I I think of Astrobot a lot. *17:28* I remember Yeah, they need to port I want to play that really bad, but I it needs to be ported. *17:30* It needs to be ported. *17:36* They need to make a new one *17:37* I liked uh I remember the novelty of Batman, Arkham VR. *17:38* Remember that was Rocksteady's last video game. *17:43* It was good. *17:46* It was cool. *17:47* Oh you should you should do the uh Arkham series twice. *17:48* We have a list for that. *17:51* Okay, yeah. *17:53* I I do any of those games. *17:54* Even even Blackgate on the Wii U. *17:56* Yeah. *17:59* Or I bought it on 3DS. *17:59* Like a year. *18:01* Oh my gosh, he would have had it on 3DS. *18:02* Yeah. *18:05* So yeah, I'll I'll play the OG version. *18:06* Oh my gosh. *18:08* Yeah. *18:10* We I I like the idea of Arkham and especially the Suicide Squad too, but *18:10* That's Logan and I we need to get back to Gotham Knights someday. *18:16* Yeah. *18:20* We didn't even get to it because it was like *18:21* Well we did I I thought we did get to the part we could co-op. *18:24* I hate when games are like this is a full co-op experience and it's like oh cool and then you boom it up and then it's like you have to get to a point in the game where it's like now co-op is unlocked. *18:28* It's like I've left it installed on my PS5 just for you logo. *18:37* I like that game. *18:45* I think that game's uh like overly hated. *18:46* It's like a solid seven. *18:48* That people seven's five. *18:50* And I think it's if it's anything like our time with Residue of Five and Six, playing it with someone *18:52* dramatically changes the fun you have in the game. *18:59* You can fight together and I do actually think it lacks a bit of that interaction when you're fighting with someone else. *19:03* Uh um but you can like patrol the city at night and go to like two different sides of the city. *19:09* Uh it's like it's pretty cool. *19:15* Like that game actually has a pretty cool loop where you feel like you're going out every night and like solving crimes. *19:16* And like getting data to fight fight bosses. *19:23* Um could have been done better, but like actually it may it makes you feel like it's like, oh, it's nighttime time to go be a superhero and like scour the streets. *19:25* Cool. *19:37* Yeah, I could I could talk at length about uh the the Suicide Squad game and how that's like there's so many good ways to do a suicide squad game and it's not it's not what we are doing. *19:38* It's not as characters *19:48* Where no one dies and suicide squad. *19:50* They're like, hey, let's reboot this game r in the next twelve months. *19:53* Oh, I was gonna ask you. *19:57* Uh sorry to chime in. *19:59* Tomas is talking about other things he would want to come on. *20:00* Do you have any interest in doing a Castlevania game with us? *20:03* Because we've got 20 of them to play. *20:06* I like Metroidvania's, but I am not super versed in Castlevania or Metroid. *20:12* So we're doing Metroid Prime and we're doing Castlevania. *20:17* You can have your pick, Tomas. *20:21* Yeah, it's uh I think I'll Castlevania. *20:22* Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal retrospective podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series exploring its evolution, design, and legacy. *20:26* For this season, we are covering the Pokemon franchise. *20:34* My name is Max Roberts, and I'm joined, as always, by Logan Moore. *20:37* Hi, Logan. *20:41* Bonjour, Max. *20:42* Ça va? *20:43* Oui? *20:44* Je ne sais pas? *20:45* I don't know. *20:47* I did not take French. *20:48* If you say Savo, it's like saying how are you and you can respond by saying Savat *20:50* Oh, okay. *20:55* That's the conversation. *20:57* That's the whole thing. *20:58* I could have had a conversation in French. *20:59* Did you take French in high school? *21:01* Yeah, I did. *21:02* Yeah. *21:03* That's about all I remember it. *21:03* That's about all I remember of it though. *21:05* Isn't uh isn't saying like my name is like Jemel Lapelle? *21:07* It's Jemapel. *21:11* Jem Lapel Logan. *21:13* Well Eloise thinks it's Jemel Lepel. *21:14* Because that's what I should have. *21:17* What is she watching Moosey? *21:19* I shout that and jackisse at her. *21:21* What are you speaking French to the little baby for? *21:25* I accuse her of crimes. *21:27* You accuser of crimes in French? *21:30* Sure, why not? *21:33* I think it's fun. *21:34* It's a fun word to say. *21:35* J'accuse. *21:36* And you point like Phoenix Wright style. *21:38* It's pretty great. *21:40* I'm getting some insight into your parenting here. *21:41* Yeah. *21:44* There was a phase I watched uh Lupin on Netflix, which is about a French thief, and it's it's in French, so I watched it. *21:45* Isn't that Star uh *21:52* Idris Elba? *21:55* No. *21:56* Well Oh, that's a Luther that I'm thinking of as a Yes, I think that is what you're thinking of. *21:57* Not Lupin. *22:02* No, Lupin is a is a show about a French thief, and uh so I watched the first season, was totally captivated by it. *22:03* It's all in French. *22:09* And so for like a week, I was just walking around her house with a French accent talking to Abby. *22:10* She got very annoyed with me. *22:15* But it was uh fun. *22:17* So I learned, you know, jackies. *22:19* It's good stuff. *22:22* It's fun. *22:23* If you could not tell from this uh discussion here, this week we're talking about Pokemon X and Y, which have *22:24* Ties de France, which we'll get into in a bit with our guest that we have on this episode, which is our old buddy Tomas Franzisi, who will be joining us in a moment. *22:31* Before Tomas comes in though, Max, why don't you uh tell the fine folks uh who want to get more chapter select content what they can do. *22:42* Well, they can sign up for Super Chapter Select. *22:51* Then go over to listeningwithsuperpower. *22:54* com and check out Super Chapter Select, which is longer episodes where we we talk to Tomas about some *22:56* Logan and Tomas kind of talk a little bit about their uh video game journalist experiences in the the pre-show for this episode. *23:02* But longer episodes, exclusive episodes, and bonus videos like for our season here on Pokemon where we fight each other in Pokemon battles in every single game. *23:10* And I'm actually *23:20* Originally it was like gonna be a hit list, but we've managed to play every single Pokemon game, and but now we're getting into the tricky ones with black and white left because those require us to use fan servers to battle because those servers have been shut down. *23:21* So that will be interesting, but we battle in each game. *23:36* Um, so you can head over to listeningwithsuperpower. *23:39* com and find out more and sign up. *23:42* Thank you, Max. *23:45* Yeah, so let's talk about Pokemon X and Y. *23:46* Um, we're going to do our rundown here, as we always do at the start of every episode. *23:48* So for Pokemon X and Y, Max. *23:54* Did you know that these games were developed by Game Freak? *23:57* Real real departure for the Pokemon series here *24:00* These were the first two games in the series that came to the Nintendo 3DS. *24:05* They launched on October 12th, 2013. *24:09* The game director is somebody that we have become quite familiar with. *24:12* It is Junichi Masuda. *24:16* The producers on this game were Hitoshi Yamagami, Shusaki Egami, Takado Utsunu, Utsuno Miya? *24:18* Yeah, that's right. *24:27* There's a M before the Y there. *24:27* I butchered that one, I'm sorry. *24:29* Anjunichi Masuda *24:30* The music was done by Shodakama, Minako Adachi, Hitomi Sato, and Junichi Masuda. *24:31* Uh the Metacritic score on this one for *24:39* You have you have them listed individually here. *24:42* Uh Y was an eighty out of eighty-eight out of a hundred and eighty-seven out of one hundred was for X. *24:44* I've it was I think it's one of the first ones I've seen that have have been different by a point. *24:51* I have no idea what I'm saying. *24:56* I felt like calling it out, but it's it's the ten year anniversary of this game, which feels absurd to me. *25:02* You know, it just gets it. *25:10* I was gonna say this is actually like coming up here in a couple weeks that we're rec since uh *25:14* From the date we're recording this, it will have been 10 years. *25:20* And uh it's crazy. *25:23* Yeah, these feel newer, way newer in my head than they are. *25:24* It just I think it's the 3D of it and being on the three D S, which just died not terribly long ago. *25:27* Yeah, the 3DS still feels like I don't want to say new because it's obviously been around for quite some time. *25:33* Maybe eShop just shut down for it, so yeah. *25:38* I still feel like in my mind both. *25:41* the 3DS in Vita are not that old. *25:44* And I guess in some senses like they aren't, but um I don't know, man. *25:47* The past everything college and post-college is just it's been a blur. *25:51* It's been very strange. *25:56* Um, but yeah, let's let's let's open things up and talk about uh Pokemon X and Y just a bit more here. *25:58* And to do that, let's bring in our guest. *26:03* Tomas, thank you so much for joining us for chapter select this time. *26:05* Awesome. *26:10* Thank you so much for having me. *26:10* You have been on the show before. *26:12* I was gonna say I should have said thank thank you for coming back to the show. *26:14* Yeah. *26:17* Uh anybody who's been listening since season one. *26:18* We've been doing this a long time. *26:21* Uh you did Paper Mario Color Splash with us previously, and now you're back to do Pokemon X and Y. *26:23* Before we started recording, Max pointed out that it's very funny you always come back for *26:30* some of the more odd entries in each of these respective series. *26:34* Yeah. *26:39* Yeah, you know, I mean I I always like when uh games and *26:39* game hardware and stuff does weird and interesting things. *26:44* Like I find I just find that very captivating, so I'm kind of attracted to like the the the weird shit. *26:47* I think what's interesting with this, and and we'll obviously we'll do what we always do here, which is kind of talk about our own histories with this game, and for you just you can talk about your own history with Pokemon. *26:54* But I know when we started doing this season we reached out to you and asked you which one you would want to be on, and you're like, oh, X and Y for sure. *27:03* So I'm definitely curious why I'm definitely curious why you wanted *27:09* To play these games out of all of them and like what's what like I said what your own history with it is. *27:15* Yeah, so uh *27:21* If you couldn't already tell, I like X and Y a lot, actually. *27:23* I have over 200 hours I checked the activity log on my 3DS that I've spent. *27:27* across playing X and Y multiple playthroughs. *27:32* I these games came out when I was a freshman in high school and I played Pokemon since I was like super little but *27:35* X and Y is the first Pokemon game. *27:43* I remember really actively like following the the news cycle for looking forward to and it was kind of the point where I noticed like, oh, I'm like *27:45* invested in following this series going forward. *27:55* And I'm a huge 3DS fan, uh, played it at launch and *27:59* I really like it. *28:03* It's definitely janky because it was their first foray into 3D and a lot of stuff isn't perfect, but I kind of like its rough edges. *28:04* I like that it's 3D, but still retains *28:13* um some of the elements of like the the 2D games and I think they're they kind of just get down to like the *28:16* the the core of what a Pokemon game is and if you're you're cool with that uh you'll enjoy them. *28:24* It's definitely a downgrade from like Black 2 and White 2. *28:29* Like they're following some of like the best games in the series. *28:32* So like I get why like when you go from that to this it's kinda like, oh what what are they doing? *28:35* But I if if you look at the games for what they are, I think that you can enjoy 'em. *28:41* Max, what about I mean I know where you're at. *28:45* You've never played these before and you just said anything. *28:48* That's not true. *28:50* I was apparently like *28:56* Story-wise, getting ready to go off to fight Team Flair, basically. *28:58* So I was like close to the end. *29:01* Um that part's clunky, anyway. *29:03* Yeah. *29:07* I so *29:07* Listeners who've been following along this season will know that I, you know, uh I played blue and then wasn't allowed to play Pokemon until uh thirteen, which would have been my diamond would've been diamond and pearl for me. *29:10* So Tomas X and Y for you at around thirteen. *29:20* My game was Diamond and Pearl. *29:23* And so I was in. *29:25* But then for some reason, I just didn't play another Pokemon game. *29:26* I didn't play. *29:30* I didn't get heart, gold, soul, silver. *29:30* I didn't do black and white. *29:32* Black and white too. *29:34* But then X and Y was coming out and something in my brain went, oh, it's in 3D now. *29:35* That's really cool. *29:42* It looks like Pokemon Stadium. *29:43* And I was really drawn to that. *29:46* And I at that time, they also were putting the virtual console games, I think, on uh the 3DS as well, so you could play blue and red and yellow. *29:48* And I was like, that's really cool. *29:58* I'm gonna I'm gonna play Pokemon XMY. *29:59* This will be great. *30:03* And I *30:04* I like I was enjoying it and I remember, you know, there was Charizard and Bulbasaur, so it's appealing to this nostalgia that I have and little experience with and much else. *30:05* Yeah, it's the the first encounter is always a pidgey on the first route when you you walk up to it. *30:16* So they d this was definitely the first time, I think. *30:22* Like they were like, hey, Gen 1 fans, like come back, please. *30:25* Yeah. *30:29* And it worked, but you know what? *30:30* I couldn't I don't remember a thing about this game. *30:33* I was shocked at how far I got in the game when I did boot up my save to ultimately wipe it. *30:37* I did pull out all the Pokemon I had and put them in Pokebank, but I was like some *30:43* 15 to 20 hours in and I just stopped playing. *30:51* I don't I couldn't tell you why. *30:55* I don't remember getting this far, but I was shocked. *30:57* I can tell you why, because this game's not very good. *31:00* Don't uh Tomas thinks it's good. *31:04* He's a two-family talk slouch. *31:06* We can talk about it here. *31:09* I mean hey, I didn't like *31:10* I didn't s I don't like Diamond and Pearl that much and I played those games a lot. *31:12* Well so you guys wait, did you guys not play Platinum? *31:16* That's like the objective right choice. *31:18* Yeah, Platinum is great. *31:21* I think I played like half a playthrough of Platinum or something *31:23* like that. *31:25* As a kid, I played I played Diamond and Platinum and have regretted selling those ever since. *31:26* For the show we just did Brilliant Diamond Shining Pearl because those were *31:31* The most accessible says. *31:35* So the fun anecdote, unrelated, but about Pokemon Platinum. *31:37* I still remember going to get Pokemon Platinum in the Target. *31:40* getting the last copy they had. *31:44* And then as I uh my dad and I were walking out of the store, there there was like this like so for reference I'm also like *31:46* like nine or ten at the time or whatever. *31:53* There's like this girl who's even younger than me who's like walking in with her mom. *31:55* Like, I'm so excited to get Pokemon Platinum and I knew I had the last copy. *31:59* So you should have taunted her. *32:05* I still have that copy. *32:13* So I don't think this game is very good, but I do have like *32:16* a certain fondness for this game and it's mainly just be associated it's it's tied to what I associate it with, which is Grant Callahan, our friend of the show. *32:20* Who has Grit been on this show? *32:30* He's an Ultrasun Ultra Moon episode. *32:32* I don't know. *32:36* I can't keep track of everything between our other show, which is also like sort of dead, but *32:36* Not r really. *32:41* I don't know. *32:42* Anyway. *32:43* Um this game came out the year that you and I graduated high school, man. *32:44* 2015. *32:49* And so we were g this was when we were in freshman in college. *32:50* And I remember this was coming out and it was coming to the 3DS. *32:54* And growing up, our whole lives, me and Grant were big Pokemon players. *32:57* And he was going to college in Tennessee and I was still at home in Indiana. *33:01* And I was like, hey, I will come down. *33:05* When Pokemon X and Y comes out and we'll get it together and we'll like play it and experience this all together. *33:11* And so I went down and I visited him at college and I stayed in his dorm for like three or four *33:17* days or something like that. *33:22* And like the first night w I got there, I think Pokemon X and Y came out and like we went to Walmart at midnight and got it. *33:23* And then we stayed up all night playing it and like all day the next day. *33:31* We just sat we just sat around and played Pokemon X and Y all weekend. *33:34* And that was fun and I remember that. *33:38* And since then I played through the game one other time and I have no *33:40* memories whatsoever of that playthrough. *33:44* Like I don't know when it happened or I I don't I don't r I couldn't tell you a single thing about that second playthrough of the game that I had. *33:46* I just know that I did do a second playthrough at some point because it *33:54* my save data still exists on f that file. *33:57* Yeah, that's so interesting because like I mean I like I've played it way more than either of you have obviously, but so like I know a lot of *34:01* the the game like from memory where I'm like, oh I'm coming up on that part. *34:08* But even when I was replaying it, I allowed myself to like uh explore a little bit more, which I definitely haven't done in the previous *34:12* couple like run throughs of it that I did. *34:20* I kind of just like mainlined it. *34:22* But uh when I was playing through it for this, I I was kind of like, oh I'll I'll go like deeper into these caves. *34:24* and different stuff and there wasn't anything too like mind-blowing in any of those, but it was just kind of cool to be like have some unfamiliar element, even though I knew like the general emotions the the game was going through. *34:30* Yeah, I remember like the Pokemon in these games, but I I mean coming into this playthrough that we did this time around, I had total amnesia to like everything else. *34:42* The gym leaders, the Elite Four, the Champion *34:53* Like pretty much a all all of those things. *34:56* And I feel like the only reason I retained like the Pokemon in this generation is just because, you know, they appear in the later games and stuff like that. *34:59* And so you kind of continue to see them and you're continuing *35:06* to be familiar with them. *35:09* How could you forget the girl on roller skates they make you fight three times in a row? *35:13* Oh my gosh. *35:17* I I wrote that down for sure. *35:19* So I wouldn't forget her. *35:22* I'm Yeah. *35:25* I have big issues with Lucario Lucario girl. *35:26* I think the reason that, yeah, I just did not re remember anything about this game is because I think there's nothing really to remember. *35:29* There are no singular moments in this game that I think of. *35:37* There's nothing really that stands out to me. *35:43* Like I think this is w this is the most milked Pokemon game, I think, in the entire *35:45* series and out of all of the ones that we've played so far this season match, which is pretty much all of them. *35:52* We have only I mean to give you context, Tomas, we have only not played black and white and black and white too. *35:58* So those are the last two we're playing. *36:03* So we're at the end of the season here and having played through all of them. *36:05* You're ending on the good ones, like as a heads up. *36:08* Yeah, I'm very excited. *36:11* We we realized we went through probably a little bit of a rough patch here because we've played this one and Diamond and Pearl back to back. *36:13* Again, I don't think I don't think any of these games are like *36:20* truly horrible, but I think most people would consider like Diamond and Pearl and X and Y to kind of like the downward alert like the lower level entries in the series for sure. *36:23* Um so yeah coming back on black and white we're excited to do those *36:34* But yeah, I just, I don't know. *36:37* I don't think there's anything about this game that stands out in my mind whatsoever. *36:39* Um, other than the sort of *36:43* like running around with friends aspect of it, but I hate that. *36:46* Mmm passionately. *36:51* It's I think this game is almost most important for like *36:53* the historical significance where it was the start of like Pokemon in 3D obviously, but I also think a lot of the issues that Pokemon has never been able to shake off since. *36:58* started here, like the the poor frame rate and like ne never getting things quite right in in 3D. *37:09* Like those are issues it has here. *37:16* But *37:19* I almost don't hold it against the game that much because it's issues the series like still has. *37:20* So I think it's just kind of like Game Pro Game Freak's approach to 3D design. *37:25* And it's definitely flawed and I get like *37:29* why you wouldn't like it, but I think it's a very interesting game to look back to because it's kind of the the state Pokemon's been stuck in for a decade. *37:32* Well, let's let's stick with that because I'm curious to hear more. *37:40* I I think if Max and I talk more about it, we're just gonna be like, I don't like this, and I don't like this. *37:43* So I would like to hear more. *37:47* Well, I would like to hear more from Tomas about what the a aspects are that he thinks is interesting in this game and maybe we can go from there and talk about like what we like or dislike about those things. *37:50* Uh sure. *38:02* So as as I mentioned briefly, I do like that it's still kind of a 2D style adventure in 3D. *38:03* The graphics are rough, but I actually I like the chibi style this game goes for more than like the realistic proportions of like Sun and Moon, Scarlet Violet. *38:10* uh there are there are some those wacky proportions in this game. *38:18* Oh yes. *38:22* Yeah it is weird. *38:22* Like you can tell it's the first time, but I kind of liked when Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl went back to that. *38:23* I actually like Kalos as a region. *38:29* Um *38:32* Can feel a little bit disjointed at times, but I think it had has some interesting history that you go through. *38:33* It's it's it takes advantage of the *38:41* Being in 3D by like adding a bit more depth to some of the areas you're exploring. *38:44* It's got a good batch of Pokemon. *38:50* I think it's like one of the stronger modern batches of Pokemon. *38:52* And you and it's also like I th the story is s so bad it's good for me, I think, where *38:57* Like when you when you get Lysander uh like waxing poetic, like it it just kinda makes me uh you know, he puts a smile on my face. *39:07* And honestly the I mean spoilers, but the twist with like around Geosench Town and that whole route being uh Graves, like really I remember shocking me the first time through. *39:16* So that's why I disagree with like that there's no memorable moments. *39:27* Because I actually do remember, you know, like exploring Lumeo City for the first time, like finding that out about like the Geosinge. *39:30* area for the first time. *39:38* So I think this game has a lot of cool areas that and Pokemon that it kind of like presents to the player. *39:39* But it it's can sometimes struggle to like *39:48* pace it well or stitch it all together. *39:51* Um but I think it's it's it's kind of also a comfort game for me at this point where like I can look past the flaws because I I played it early enough in my life and like *39:53* know what to expect and when where I can, you know, run through this game once every few years and have a have a good time with it. *40:04* And it's it's not like the the best game, like objectively in the series or anything by far. *40:11* But uh I think it it's just really cool because it was it was a very important game for the series. *40:18* It's cool to see them experimenting, and I think there's some memorable uh like locations. *40:23* And I don't other thing, uh *40:27* Kind of a tangent. *40:29* I think Lumio City is still the most city feeling area that they've done in a game. *40:30* Um like Scarlet and Violet kind of started to get back there, but uh *40:35* It's it's one of the few Pokemon areas where they say it's a city, and I'm kind of like, oh, this is like an actual city uh that I can go through. *40:40* I *40:49* I have some responses to some of the things you've said here. *40:52* I don't think this I'll I'll say this on because I know I've been coming and saying this is one of the worst. *40:54* I don't think there are truly like all horrible things in this game. *40:59* I actually like Mega Evolutions quite a bit. *41:01* Um, I think those are cool. *41:04* I'm sure we'll talk about them more. *41:05* I think my issue, you talked about how you think Kalos is one of the more unique regions. *41:07* I think my biggest problem with Kalos is just like *41:11* Every Pokemon game, I mean, with the exception, I guess, of maybe like Sun and Moon, but even then, Kalos is *41:14* too on the nose with what it's inspired by. *41:22* It's like, oh, by the way, did you know that this is supposed to be France? *41:25* Like every Pokemon region is kind of inspired by a real-world area, but they're often *41:28* They they aren't as on the nose with it as I feel like Kalos is where it's like, oh yeah, coffee shops and there's an Eiffel Tower gym. *41:36* Yeah, this is France. *41:45* Did you know that? *41:46* Yeah, once Pokemon regions left Japan, I think that became an issue. *41:47* Like I think that's black and white through scarlet and violet. *41:52* It's kind of like, oh *41:54* It's based on this area. *41:56* But yeah, I I definitely see that in this game where they're like we have like the Eiffel Tower and the the Louvre and these museums. *41:57* Yes. *42:05* Uh yeah. *42:05* Yeah, it's a little bit too on the nose in that manner, and I think it's more so than again, some of the other games are pretty obvious like Sword and Shield is inspired by *42:06* what Britain, um, England, and then obviously Sun and Moon is like Hawaii, but h Sun and Moon you can almost chalk up to just being like any sort of island nation. *42:15* Um this is the only one where I feel like it's just *42:25* S i extremely apparent that it's like, you're in Paris. *42:28* Yeah, black and black uh UNOVA is very obviously uh like the US *42:32* when you play it. *42:37* It's supposed to be New York, right? *42:38* They traveled there for New York. *42:39* Yes. *42:40* Yeah. *42:41* They they take parts from like around the country. *42:41* But yeah, generally, like it's that like how this one's kind of centered around their version of Paris. *42:43* That one's centered around like a version of New York. *42:48* Yeah. *42:51* Some of the environments stick out in my mind in this game. *42:52* I like there's some paths. *42:55* I don't know the route numbers, which I think might possibly be an issue just for me, but *42:58* There's like places where the leaves are falling and it and it's fall. *43:04* There's like a sense of seasons and time and *43:08* space in this game that I don't think other games in the series so far have had, like where it feels dynamic in a way. *43:12* Not that it's changing while you're playing, but *43:20* Each area feels like a part of an you know an English or French countryside. *43:22* It's and then you know you got the coast and you've got the these mountainous region over here. *43:28* It is *43:33* a map that I can roughly divide out in my brain, and that's because the game divides it out for you with Lumios right in the middle. *43:35* I do think it's actually fairly *43:43* Easy to remember compared to us playing Ultra Sun and Moon, where it was like, what island is this town on? *43:45* And you have to zoom in and out and *43:51* I do think the map overall is fairly navigable. *43:54* And, you know, Lumio City is pretty impressive. *43:58* From a tech I think from a technical perspective on the three D S, it's pretty big. *44:04* It's full full three D, which *44:09* In 2013 on the 3DS was, you know, quite ambitious. *44:13* I just my real problem with Lumios is *44:19* I don't know how to navigate it. *44:23* That's the thing. *44:26* Okay. *44:26* It's really obtuse how to get around the city. *44:27* And those taxis are expensive. *44:30* Yeah. *44:33* So yeah, two things. *44:33* One use the taxi if you really don't know where you go. *44:34* And then the other thing is Lumios is basically a circle. *44:37* It's three rings connected. *44:41* So if you don't know where you are, just start walking in one direction until you get somewhere you know where you are and you can reorient. *44:43* yourself like that. *44:51* It's I'll admit that also took me a while to like get the hang of, but if you if you basically keep looping the city, you'll you'll kinda get um *44:52* a better sense of space, but I mean you could also argue that that's meant to reflect what it's like in an actual city. *45:02* You know what I mean? *45:08* Oh, I totally can see that. *45:09* I mean where I'm going. *45:10* And you can and I don't know if you guys did the post game stuff with Looker *45:11* Um but that is like a mystery uh element story thing that's settling meos. *45:15* And that brings you into a lot of the back alleys and different stuff. *45:22* So when you play that *45:25* you kinda like get a better feeling for the city and like how to navigate it and then that makes like subsequent playthroughs better. *45:26* That doesn't forgive kind of the poor *45:33* design, but I do also appreciate that the for the most part the game's always kind of just like, oh you can just kind of go left. *45:35* Like there's only I think in the team flare. *45:42* Yeah. *45:45* Yeah. *45:46* Uh *45:46* Yeah. *45:47* I think it's only uh in when it tells you to go to the like the Team Flare Cafe if you don't know what to look for. *45:47* Like that that's a little confusing. *45:54* Yeah. *45:56* Um *45:56* But uh but other than but they also put up Team Flair person standing outside of it. *45:57* So it helps a lot, but yeah. *46:02* So I think that's the *46:05* It's it's very I think it's the one of the most grand feeling Pokemon Cities and that comes with the downsides as like it it they didn't necessarily nail like the intuitiveness of like *46:08* City planning yet. *46:20* I think um but there was a map *46:22* that I could summon at will instead of Oh definitely. *46:28* There is one in the top corner or whatever. *46:31* But like that only shows up when you enter *46:34* north or south ring or leave a building. *46:36* Like if I could have just pulled up a map of the ring that maybe showed where I was and then *46:39* Maybe just very big key landmark or maybe just route exits or something. *46:45* I feel like that would help a ton. *46:49* Yeah, if they ever remake the these games, they should do that and then also give you kinda like stamps to leave. *46:51* So especially if you find one of those back alleys or like a cafe or like restaurant you want to fight into a grind or whatever, you can kind of like mark it and know know where you are. *46:56* And also put different textures on the building so that they don't all look the same. *47:07* That was what I was gonna say. *47:11* Like my biggest problem is just that it looks *47:13* to SAMY around every corner of that city. *47:16* Every building looks the same until you get up close to it and you're like, wait, which one is this? *47:19* And you like read the sign, you're like, oh okay, this is this. *47:23* Like every every shop, every every coffee shop, like they all look so similar. *47:27* And I know there's like what stars above some of them and stuff like that, or I think, right? *47:31* Some of the different *47:36* uh coffee shops or restaurants that you can go to. *47:37* Yeah, but I I think it just looks so similar, like in all the different corners. *47:40* So yeah, a a map would have been helpful in just *47:44* More colors. *47:48* It's so it's such a l it's so white in that city. *47:49* I think that's that's where it exposes like that it was it was their first time doing something like that and it's on like *47:52* the 3DS in 2013 where I think they were kind of just like, oh we'd rather just like make the important buildings look distinct and then kind of like copy paste ev the buildings for everything else. *47:58* Uh and I do think generally for like what will you need to do in the story, like it's easy to tell where you need to go in the story. *48:10* Maybe I'm not the best person to speak to that because I'm more familiar with it. *48:17* Um *48:22* But uh but yeah, I definitely if you want to like sink your teeth in and actually like explore the city, like you you can get lost. *48:23* But it's whether or not you think that's like a good thing that's representative of like exploring a big, unfamiliar city. *48:30* I wanted to ask you this, Max, because I know we're kind of you you talked about how Lumio City, like you were impressed with how that was able to run on 3DS. *48:36* What did you think about the rest of the game in terms of performance though? *48:47* Because I know we've talked about this with the others the other 3DS games, and that you're like, oh, the performance is really bad. *48:50* I'm like, well, I'm pretty sure like X and Y is like worse *48:57* Uh and in some ways it is at all. *49:00* In some ways it is, and in some ways it isn't. *49:03* I I think all the 3DS games are actually at pretty equal parity in terms of rough performance. *49:05* Yeah, in battles definitely. *49:10* Uh like all the 3DS games are pretty bad. *49:12* Like, and I had a Florigus who could do like uh Grassy Terrain. *49:15* Uh, yeah. *49:20* I think wait, was that one? *49:20* That one might have been named Max Roberts. *49:22* Uh wait, no, that no that was that was never mind. *49:24* That wasn't. *49:27* Um *49:27* whenever I any sort of terrain would show up, which was like a new mechanic this game introduced, like the frame rate dropped to like ten a second. *49:28* And then when if you use a move that has a ton of particle effects, like this was definitely where, you know, kind of the like *49:36* uh all of the technical experience that they had spent years crafting. *49:42* Like a Black and White 2 is like an outstanding looking game for like the Nintendo DS in 2012. *49:49* Um *49:55* And then you can you can tell it's their first time in Tv uh in 3D because it's not optimized and even as someone who enjoys the game like I still replay it and go like oh this like does not run well at all um *49:56* But it's it's just interesting to see like a first outing like that and you you see where they they still have room to improve and And they still have room to improve in 2023 in terms of performance and visuals *50:10* That's what I meant earlier when I said it's kind of was I consider X and Y kind of the start of like the modern era for Pokemon. *50:23* Snowball. *50:30* Because it's like Yeah, because yeah, every game since X and Y has like been *50:30* like X and Y in some way and in strengths and weaknesses. *50:36* So I it makes this I think like even if it's like a pretty divisive game, like it's a pretty important one. *50:41* I *50:48* This game doesn't run the best, and that's not a terrible surprise given the other two 3DS games that we've played, just given our order of this particular season. *50:50* But I think *51:00* Why I appreciate it a little bit more here is they really went for it. *51:03* There was I fe it almost feels like Game Freak felt like sky's the limit with 3D potential here. *51:09* The camera is not always, but it does these dynamic swinging, swooping motions. *51:17* Like you'll walk through a city or you'll walk on a route and the camera will just suddenly go from that top down perspective that we've seen for *51:24* you know, decades at this point pull down and move and shift and show there's actual depth and dimension to this world, which *51:32* really made it feel alive in a way and super. *51:42* That's the first time the series like was able to do do that. *51:46* And it feels good still. *51:50* Uh you know, because Alpha Sapphire Omega Ruby pretty much *51:51* all top-down perspective except if you do the latios latios like flying over the world then you then you get a 3D navigation perspective. *51:55* And then Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon don't really do too much with a a sweeping camera perspective. *52:04* But but I mean I'd even say that like I think the Alola games did it a bit better where like those games kinda *52:08* You could see them finding their footing in X and Y, so then in like Pokemon's very iterative, so then like in Sun and Moon, you could kinda like it really kind of felt like you were following every step. *52:16* on these islands and fully exploring them. *52:26* Oh yeah. *52:28* No, they definitely figured it out. *52:29* And I think that was that was so once again that's like where it's interesting to see this as like the start of the modern era because you s you see all these like *52:31* imperfections that they would like go on to either keep or refine in like every entry that followed. *52:39* And then they made the jump to the switch and it all went back down again. *52:46* Yeah. *52:50* I want to talk about I I I I mentioned before how I feel like this is like such a formula game in so many ways, and that's kind of one of my *52:51* issues with it and I I want to talk about that because we we've touched on these things all over the course of the whole season how there's always like the same arcs in all the Pokemon games. *53:00* There's the champion arc, go to all the gyms, defeat the Elite Four, become the champion. *53:09* There's the the evil team arc, and then there's sort of the legendary Pokemon arc. *53:13* And I feel like one of my biggest problems with this game is how *53:18* all of these arcs like intersect. *53:22* It is it is the um like quintessential Pokemon game in like format. *53:25* Like so I don't I don't mean I don't mean quintessential and like best. *53:31* I mean it's like if you want to say like what elements make up a Pokemon game, like it has all of them. *53:35* And I think *53:40* I think they did that because they kind of needed that base when they were building in 3D. *53:41* They had to kind of be like, okay, what what's the absolute basic like formula that makes a Pokemon game? *53:45* Let's do that in 3D and test all of these things. *53:51* So *53:54* Yeah, th that's de definitely a fair assessment where it's like it's very much the like uh follows the same pacing. *53:55* You fight the big team in legendary after the seventh. *54:02* gym badge yeah and stuff where it's like it's it's definitely very like j generic in that way. *54:05* Uh because it was I th and I think that's because it was *54:13* was their their first outing in 3D, so they stuck to what they knew. *54:16* We're obviously like playing all of them back to back to back to back he like kind of noticed where it was like oh this is *54:18* Everything. *54:25* Yeah. *54:25* Yeah. *54:26* They try to do some like different things, especially well, the one I guess additional storyline in all these games is usually centered around like your rival. *54:26* And they kind of try to do something new here in this sense where it's like, what if you had like *54:34* four rivals, but they were all like your friends and they all had different goals and ambitions and things. *54:39* But then they don't fully explore it. *54:44* I wish I wish those challenged what those *54:46* I wish it did something that we didn't really get until Scarlet and Violet, which is like give you different routes to pursue. *54:49* Like I think it would have been interesting if it was kind of like *54:56* Oh, you can go and f like follow Serena's rival path for like the traditional gym leaders and champion. *54:59* If you wanted like catch Pokemon, uh you can like *55:06* follow like Trevor's path and then if you want to do some like dancing minigame or whatever you follow T. *55:10* I was gonna say one of them is just literally I want to get catch Pokemon that dance. *55:14* It's like it's just like I'm here to have a good time. *55:19* That's that's uh yeah. *55:21* Um and then uh oh yeah, and one thing kinda and I think the game almost could have done that because one thing I do want to note, this game is the one that introduced finally. *55:24* Uh you get experience for catching a Pokemon, which I love because that encourages you to catch them all finally. *55:34* This was like this is the first Pokemon game where I feel like there's like *55:41* a good reason to go out and try to catch as much as you want. *55:45* Um like at this point on this pr playthrough I really wasn't, but I know in like my first uh couple playthroughs on pretty much every Pokemon game since, like I do actively like catch as many as I can on uh *55:48* uh the the the first run now because it it gives you that feedback reward and we can talk about how this game handles like its level cap and experience. *55:59* But uh like it's it is good that like that aspect of the game feeds back into it. *56:08* And I I wish the rivals kind of did more. *56:13* And you can't name them either. *56:15* Which is weird. *56:17* Uh where I I remember joking with my brother. *56:18* This is so the game came out in 2013, and I remember joking that we wanted to name him after One Direction back then. *56:21* And then we were like disappointed when the game came out and we were like, oh we can't like be What did you have them call you? *56:29* I need to know this for both of you. *56:34* God. *56:36* I forget what they call me. *56:37* Um *56:38* I have the 3DS here. *56:39* Shauna might come out and speak to me afterwards. *56:40* My name is Max Frequent. *56:43* Um I had the podcast. *56:46* I had them call I sent this to Max. *56:48* I had them call me Big Donger. *56:50* And so the whole game they're like, hey big donger, let's fight. *56:52* I don't know why. *56:56* I'm I'm for an Ellie 12 years old. *56:57* I chose one of the pre-selected names. *57:00* Oh my gosh, you're uninvented. *57:04* Big M. *57:06* Yeah. *57:06* Okay, one sec. *57:07* I'm about to see what they call me. *57:08* I chose Mamaister. *57:10* Because I didn't know it was gonna have a stutter every time the thing. *57:12* Oh, yeah, you told me. *57:17* I forgot about this joke. *57:20* Uh content. *57:21* Hey content *57:24* Yeah. *57:26* Content. *57:26* That parade was so great. *57:27* Uh so yeah. *57:30* Um yeah, I mean I think that's fun. *57:32* Like I do *57:34* I do like the idea, like Sean Eye thinks the one they develop the most, where it's kinda like uh like you can you can *57:35* pick nitpick the quality of the writing, but we're like I I see what they were going for. *57:43* It's where it's like, oh, we want you to have this group of friends that you're like on a journey with. *57:48* Um *57:53* And they they don't execute that perfectly like at all, and I still don't think any Pokemon game really has. *57:54* Um I think I think it it's a very interesting idea to kind of see those character arcs and how they evolve over the course of the journey and *57:59* how they they all are kind of pursuing different things. *58:08* So once again, I'd love to see a remake of this that like fleshes those things out and is kind of like, hey, let's let's give you different paths connected to. *58:10* all these people, so there's like a bit more depth to that that journey. *58:20* It feels it reminded me, I wrote down this like group of friends angle is very *58:24* Mega Man Battle Network slash persona. *58:30* It feels like they obviously Pokemon's RPG series, people you know, call it, you know, kids first RPG or whatever, but *58:33* It to me strikes me as inspiration from other RPG franchises of having a human party essentially, not that you're actually picking these people and you know doing things with them per se. *58:41* except I guess at very specific story points where you will either battle them or they'll fight with you against a villain. *58:53* But it it struck me as them trying to *59:01* tell a s a a story and I underst my understanding of black and white and black and white too is there's a pretty *59:07* good story there. *59:15* So I don't wanna but I don't really know what's going on. *59:16* So I can't speak to that. *59:20* But this is there's one character that's written very well and the the rest of the thing. *59:21* Are you talking about are you talking about N? *59:26* Yeah. *59:28* And and has like three good dialogue exchanges that everybody loves. *59:29* Okay. *59:33* Uh well I I'll just say I booted up Black the other day. *59:34* Uh *59:37* to prepare for that and like I forgot how that opening cutscene is and I'm like oh okay this this game like the opening video that plays before the game. *59:38* Yeah and I was like okay this is I forgot how this game is this is good *59:46* Um it's it's just got a much more distinct vibe. *59:50* Black and white starts very slow. *59:54* This game I do feel gets like pretty into it fairly quickly. *59:55* I don't totally disagree with that one. *01:00:02* Oh, I can't I can't back you that one at all. *01:00:05* I can't get slog up front. *01:00:07* I I do think you get your Pokemon very quickly and you are kind of off and running. *01:00:10* That's what I mean. *01:00:15* It's there's there's that huge gap between the first and second gym. *01:00:17* That's what it's that's what you're talking about. *01:00:20* And then there's a big gap from two to three as well. *01:00:24* By the time I got to the third gym, I think my Pokemon were had already like leveled up further. *01:00:27* I think my starter was at its final form by the third gym. *01:00:31* I was like, oh my this is weird. *01:00:35* Yeah, so this is this is a thing that I also think was an issue in Sword and Shield. *01:00:37* Where it feels like they put a ton of work into developing the paths to the first three gyms, and then after that are like, ah f we gotta finish the game, and then go like four, five, six, seven, eight, uh, really fast. *01:00:41* Um *01:00:53* And so yeah, you you definitely feel that in this game. *01:00:54* Like I remember uh like my first playthrough. *01:00:56* It took me like twelve hours to get the first two badges, and I remember being like *01:00:59* Oh wow, like is it gonna take this long? *01:01:03* It's a hundred hour video game. *01:01:05* Yeah. *01:01:07* And it's like it's like no not really. *01:01:08* Once once you get back to Lumios, it's kinda like *01:01:09* Oh, no, you're getting them in in rapid succession. *01:01:12* So yeah, I'll I agree there are pacing issues there. *01:01:16* I just mean in terms of like *01:01:19* being able being handed a Pokemon. *01:01:21* Uh there's a bit of back and forth throughout one, which is kind of weird with no Pokemon encounters. *01:01:23* But like once they kind of send you towards the first badge, you can. *01:01:29* pretty quickly start like fighting and catching things. *01:01:32* Sure. *01:01:35* Yeah. *01:01:35* It is. *01:01:36* It's I it feels a little it felt like it lacked fanfare though. *01:01:37* Like you just go to a table with these four strangers that you've never met. *01:01:41* And they're like, oh, this professor in a city just wants you to have a Pokemon here. *01:01:46* Now let's go meet him in the city and make a Pokedex. *01:01:50* Like it just feels like we're *01:01:53* W like we the player know what we're signing up for, so we're like, yeah, let's go. *01:01:55* But the the your character in the game just moved to the s *01:02:00* town these strangers are like you've got to come with us and then those like hey why don't you why don't you go out and meet the neighbor and it's like okay and then I mean all the games are kind of *01:02:03* silly in that manner where it's just like I'm going on a worldwide adventure, goodbye. *01:02:12* But this one particularly is like, okay, we just got here. *01:02:15* Oh, the neighbor kid's out. *01:02:19* Oh! *01:02:21* You're you met up five people and you're going uh okay, goodbye. *01:02:21* Like You joined a gang. *01:02:25* Yeah. *01:02:26* You joined the gang within like five minutes. *01:02:27* This strange man in the big city wants to recruit children to go around the world and do research for him. *01:02:29* It just feels *01:02:35* A little odd. *01:02:36* Yeah. *01:02:37* It's all of the Pokemon games have this weird balancing act where it yeah, it's how much do you front load it narrative wise where it's like *01:02:38* You have sun and moon on one end of the scale where it's like takes forever to get going. *01:02:46* And then you have like then you have like the originals where it's kind of just like, hey *01:02:52* Like, dude, like here's a Pokédex, get going. *01:02:57* And so I I think it's always interesting because like I'm someone who pr would prefer to kind of be thrown right into the *01:02:59* the action like that, so I don't necessarily mind the means to how they do it as much. *01:03:07* Uh and like I said, if the if the friendsangle had been done a bit better and more convincingly. *01:03:11* Then like like I think they could have adjusted it so you like knew one of them or something and they were like, Oh hey, go find your friend who's also moved to Kalos, and then they're like, Hey, I I saved a Pokemon for you, pick one. *01:03:17* Um *01:03:30* Like so so that kind of angle might might have been might have been better. *01:03:31* But I I tend to not try to nitpick the narrative in these games too much because they're not *01:03:35* Yeah, very good. *01:03:40* Yeah, I mean I we we've talked about that a lot over the course of this season. *01:03:42* Like at the end of the day, it's a Pokemon game and we know that. *01:03:46* We're not comparing it, you know, to God of War or Red Dead Redemption 2 or *01:03:48* Any of these things I am. *01:03:53* Come on, guys. *01:03:55* Uh I mean there are there are ones in the series that are clearly better than others though. *01:03:57* Sure. *01:04:03* Oh definitely. *01:04:03* Um uh one thing one thing *01:04:04* One thing I will credit this game for though, like in regards to like the professor stuff is like Yes, it's weird, like go find this man and a *01:04:05* city and do his research. *01:04:13* Go find the French man on the third floor. *01:04:14* Yes. *01:04:17* Sky's great for French. *01:04:18* And then he's like, you found me. *01:04:18* Now fight me. *01:04:20* And then he immediately unleashes Pokemon against you. *01:04:21* I will say like *01:04:24* This is one of the games that I think the professor has like a goal for you and he kind of sends you out on this journey and it kind of ends up being like a major through line through most of the game. *01:04:26* Um compared to some of the other ones, like I think about like Heart Gold and Soul Silver where Professor Realm's like, we want we're trying to figure out what's up with eggs. *01:04:36* And then you figure out what's up with eggs like three hours into the game, and then he's like, okay, well I guess that's it. *01:04:43* Goodbye. *01:04:48* Yeah, so so like at least like the mega evolution stuff and the professor and the research part of this has like a little bit of a lar a longer and larger narrative push, but *01:04:50* Yeah. *01:05:01* Yeah. *01:05:02* I I love the I love how over the t like flamboyant it is, because I think that kind of plays up the French thing. *01:05:02* Or you just look at Ly Lysander. *01:05:09* And you like um you immediately know everything about that man the moment you see him. *01:05:12* Um same thing with Sycamore uh and Diantha where it's like I think they they had some fun with the archetypes, I think. *01:05:16* Yeah. *01:05:26* I think Sycamore out of the professors I've met so far, he's so he has this aura of *01:05:26* he knows things and he's sending you out to learn the things he knows. *01:05:36* Like I feel like he he sends you on these quests, right, to figure out mega evolution, but he's always sending you toward *01:05:41* He's like, go find a mysterious man. *01:05:50* Maybe they'll tell you about these stones. *01:05:52* Like it's like he already knows the answer. *01:05:55* And so he's actually just teaching these children *01:05:57* about this region of Pokemon and this type of thing and inner power. *01:06:00* He knows like he basically knows Lysander is evil and it almost feels like that *01:06:04* JRPG I'm talking like JRPG style like you uh almost almost Kingdom Hearts ish with *01:06:10* Zayenor and um oh my gosh, Master Um Erequis. *01:06:21* You know, the two of them, it's like there's this good guy and this bad guy, and they're they're guiding the *01:06:26* the young students towards something in a way. *01:06:31* But you know, he tries to The annihilation of the planet. *01:06:34* Yeah, but he's trying to help the bad guy a little bit. *01:06:37* I found that kind of cool *01:06:40* Yeah, there's a conversation after you beat Lysander too where he's like, yeah, maybe I should have done something about that, but that's my choice. *01:06:42* He's just kind of like, oh shucks. *01:06:50* Darn, I I'm sorry I introduced you to this evil man who wanted to destroy the planet. *01:06:52* My bad. *01:06:58* But he also feels like he knew that bulbasaurus like he knew about the the giant man, the 3,000-year-old man. *01:06:59* He's like, ah *01:07:05* Like he's not no one's surprised that this guy's the creator of the ultimate weapon. *01:07:06* Here's my game theory. *01:07:12* He's the real villain of the game. *01:07:13* It's interesting. *01:07:16* I think it's kind of cool for a professor to be all *01:07:17* Seems to have more wisdom and knowledge than just the what's up with eggs, you know? *01:07:22* Or I like I like Pokemon moves and I'm a luchador by night. *01:07:28* Yeah, I think it's this is cool. *01:07:32* Sycamore's a cool guy. *01:07:34* I like the luchador by night. *01:07:36* I mean he's cool. *01:07:37* Starting with Gen 5, I do think they took a more active effort to uh *01:07:39* Like make make the professors more active characters in the narrative. *01:07:43* Um 'cause like Juniper is Sycamore is um the the Lugador guy you guys mentioned is um you got like Kakua. *01:07:48* Kakkue, yeah, Kukui. *01:07:58* I haven't played those in a bit. *01:07:59* Um, and then uh like Sonia and her grandmother in Sword and Shield, like all of those professors, I think, kinda *01:08:01* take a more more active role in the story, which I uh like the older ones are all iconic uh but like it it's interesting for *01:08:10* Th them to kinda kinda try to incorporate them more into the narrative and make them more like actual characters and not just like, I'm the old man who's telling you to like get out of here. *01:08:18* I wanted to ask about we we've kind of been talking about like I considered that like having the friends and running around the countries sort of being part of like the main path which would be like the champion stuff. *01:08:29* Did you guys have anything *01:08:40* Any strong feelings one way or another about uh just the gyms and the gym leaders. *01:08:41* I know Tomas said he likes some of the gym leaders and stuff like that, but I will go ahead and say that I think Diantha is like the *01:08:47* least memorable champion in any of these games. *01:08:54* Like she's just sort of like her team her team is not very unique. *01:08:58* Um well maybe a little bit, but like she's just kind of not intimidating either. *01:09:04* Like all the all the champions have sort of like a distinct vibe to them, I think, and r really stand out. *01:09:10* I did not remember literally anything about her prior to playing through this game and Yeah. *01:09:15* Sh she's definitely down there with like Lance where it's like you don't have much of a attachment to them, you know what I mean? *01:09:21* Where it's like *01:09:26* I think like yeah, there's some games make your rival the champion, which I think is very smart. *01:09:28* Black and white does some interesting things to it, and Alder is also a very good character. *01:09:33* Cynthia's Cynthia, like *01:09:39* uh praise be. *01:09:41* Uh so mosquito So yeah, like that that was um probably peak champion, but uh *01:09:43* Yeah, uh, but I forget the point. *01:09:52* Yeah, but that that's what I was also saying earlier about this kind of being a very um by the numbers and design where they're kind of like, oh, we need like a quirky champion. *01:09:54* Let's make her an actress and kinda look like a guard of war a gardevoir, which she she also has. *01:10:03* Um and so that was that was kind of the design I think they were going for. *01:10:10* I think one of the more interesting ones is one of the Elite Four members is a reformed Team Flare member. *01:10:14* I think that's a super interesting concept that they don't really explore. *01:10:21* Wait, one of them is a team flare member? *01:10:24* So the fire type Elite 4 member, if you remember earlier in the game, she was the one doing the like uh the holo lens, that's the Microsoft thing, but she was doing those *01:10:27* calls for uh Team Flair. *01:10:37* So and she she's yeah, so she she's a Team Flair member and there's there's like a couple interesting things that they don't really explore there, but that's neat. *01:10:40* Then like they really make you get to know that third Jimmy leader. *01:10:47* the the the sibling dynamics like they gay give like the first and fifth gym leaders like siblings to kind of make you more like oh they're actual like people um *01:10:51* And once again, it it it's not necessarily doing any of those things with much like depth, but uh I think it's it's interesting seeing how like the the narrative *01:11:03* can evolve and try to get grander and then go on to take those big swings with like hey there's the war and the the the weapon and AZ uh *01:11:11* And so I think I think it was n it was neat seeing Pokemon's narratives uh continue to get bolder after what like black and white and that sequel did. *01:11:21* Uh like they kinda continued that trend here and showed that they could still do it in 3D. *01:11:29* And then I think they they kept up the upping the ante in Sun and Moon. *01:11:34* I had to look up the gym leaners really quick to just remember. *01:11:38* Uh I feel the same way. *01:11:43* I'm scrolling through on CeraBee and I liked the old painter guy mostly because I just think that's kind of cool. *01:11:46* Like I just like that character. *01:11:52* I wish they did more with him. *01:11:54* He's he's the first one you hit and they just like don't don't do anything with him. *01:11:55* Like I I that's that's kind of where the pacing stuff is. *01:12:00* Yeah. *01:12:05* Yes. *01:12:05* Okay. *01:12:06* Yeah. *01:12:06* And then *01:12:06* I also like uh Wolfric, the snow guy. *01:12:08* I just think his design is also cool with the the jacket and the the beard, mustache, and stuff. *01:12:11* And his team is cool. *01:12:16* But then I look at particularly six and seven, which is kind of in that zone of Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim, Jim. *01:12:18* You're just back to back to back really quick because they spent all this time. *01:12:25* Yeah. *01:12:28* Uh the this you would think the fairy type gym would have been a really big story moment and big deal, especially for introducing this new type. *01:12:28* Yeah. *01:12:36* And that gym is a blur to me. *01:12:36* I don't really this gym leader is not memorable to me at all, Valerie. *01:12:39* And same thing with the the psychic type gym, while cool in its novelty of *01:12:44* a sphere of 3DS. *01:12:49* Wow, look at us. *01:12:51* I'm the that gym is like a blur. *01:12:52* Like I don't really remember a lot of the fighting. *01:12:55* I just remember getting the end and you get themed out. *01:12:57* Yeah, that I remember that seventh gym and that seventh the seventh gym city too is actually like if you actually explore it, it's like pretty cool and they have these giant statues, but they don't really do much with it, which is disappointing. *01:12:59* Where it's like *01:13:12* Yeah, I think that's where they they probably could have used more time or ran out of time when they were designing the game. *01:13:13* Cause yeah, like may maybe maybe the the fairy type gym leader should have been a bigger deal and more of a character. *01:13:19* So *01:13:25* You can kind of ease players like you could meet them early on and they could like introduce the fairy type to you and then like you can finally go and challenge them instead of just being like, Oh, I'm in a dollhouse and I *01:13:25* fight a bunch of like fairy type people and then I leave and the story stuff's completely separate. *01:13:37* Like she didn't even help with the uh *01:13:42* the the Pokeball factory situation. *01:13:45* Uh so yeah, I think that's where you could tell they were just kind of like, oh we need two more gems. *01:13:48* So that's like those fit them in. *01:13:52* It's just kind of if it's kind of it was kind of funny to me how they kind of just sort of gloss right over the fairy type inclusion to some degree. *01:13:55* Like there are some people within the world that are like *01:14:02* Oh wow, with the recent discovery of fairy types, it's completely changed everything. *01:14:04* And that's sort of it. *01:14:09* Like it's really one of the big c core elements of this game is that they've added a new typing and it's the first time they've done that, to my knowledge, since. *01:14:11* Yeah. *01:14:19* It's the only time they've done it since what silver and gold, right? *01:14:20* Because they did they added a bunch. *01:14:23* They added dark and ice ice and steel, I think, were the ones they added. *01:14:26* Was Drag I think was Ice Dragon and the U. *01:14:32* Ice Ice Ice existed, I think. *01:14:34* Was Ice existed? *01:14:36* Okay. *01:14:40* You had to have a way to beat uh you had to have something. *01:14:41* You just fight him with his own dragon types. *01:14:47* Um *01:14:49* Yeah, so fairy inclusions is like Fairy's inclusion is a really big deal. *01:14:49* And I I want to put a pen in that though, because we'll we'll come back to that. *01:14:53* I I wanted to, though, the other two aspects *01:14:56* Let's save Team Flair. *01:15:01* We've been talking about a lot of the story stuff and how this unfolds. *01:15:02* I wanted to just mention, talk about the legendaries for a second, though, and the story with them, and sort of like maybe the backstory stuff. *01:15:05* I think this is one of the big disappointing elements of this game for me is that the legendary Pokemon just sort of come out of nowhere. *01:15:13* And they're like, I'm here. *01:15:20* I've been tied to a machine. *01:15:22* There's no real lore tied to them. *01:15:23* There's no like in all of the previous games that I think of, there are really great moments where, you know, I think back to the original Pokemon games where you're s walking through the *01:15:26* the ruined mansion and it's talking about the birth of Mewtwo and then in Gold and Silver you've got uh all the all the lore and the history around Lugia and Ho and then *01:15:36* Kyogre and Grounddaughter Super Present and Ruby and Sapphire and Polky and Dialga. *01:15:45* Like like they these they introduce these Pokemon that like shape these regions and these worlds and stuff like that. *01:15:50* And then with Xerneas and Neivhtal, like they are just total afterthoughts in this game. *01:15:57* It's it's just they just toss them in there like, oh yeah, we guess you should catch a legendary Pokemon now. *01:16:04* Here you go. *01:16:09* Like more so than any other game in the series that we have played. *01:16:10* They are just tossed in for the heck of it. *01:16:14* And there is really no *01:16:17* Like I said, there's like some backstory stuff with like, oh, the Great Pokemon War 3,000 years ago and blah blah blah like stuff like that. *01:16:19* But there's real no real but even that stuff's inclusion doesn't come about until very late in the game. *01:16:26* Like right before you go see the legendary Pokemon, I believe, because it's when you find as in the prison that you're like introduced to all the *01:16:33* war stuff and then you're off to go defeat Lysander. *01:16:42* So like the legendaries in this game, I don't I don't know what you guys think about them, but they're just so it's just they're horrible. *01:16:46* The implementation is so horrible in this for them *01:16:53* Yeah, I I I like that Cernius is a fairy type. *01:16:56* Um, yeah, no no no, but I I agree I agree with you here. *01:17:00* Like it's that's definitely like what what I was talking about where it's like they were like we you need a cover legendary that you get after the seventh badge and is kind of tied to the main villain's plot. *01:17:05* So like put 'em at the end. *01:17:15* Well that's what's even weirder about it to me is that like you said, uh Xerneas is a fairy type, and so they could have done something big with like, you know, introducing Snap does it much better with Xerneas being like the big *01:17:18* Yeah. *01:17:30* Uh that's interesting. *01:17:31* I haven't played that. *01:17:32* Um but yeah, like there's a new typing, there's there's a new legendary that is that type. *01:17:33* Like it just feels like obvious like storytelling *01:17:39* uh uh like potential right there, you know, to talk about how like, oh, this is the most powerful fairy type and blah blah blah blah blah. *01:17:42* Yeah, you could something like a fairy and a dragon. *01:17:49* Or something, yeah. *01:17:52* Yeah, something. *01:17:53* Like uh yes, anything like that. *01:17:54* And instead that's just like, nope, this thing's just been strapped to this war machine. *01:17:56* for thousands of years and that's it. *01:18:02* And yeah, I agree. *01:18:04* They're they're probably the weakest cover legendaries. *01:18:05* Yeah, I think they're the weakest in the whole series, and that doesn't mean I dislike them personally, but there is just nothing *01:18:08* alluring about them whatsoever based on like like I said, like their histories and how they their importance to these regions in these games from like a story level. *01:18:13* I agree with everything you both said. *01:18:24* I caught Cernius and then put it in the box and didn't even look at it again. *01:18:27* I think I will say, like, I think Eve Tall is a really cool design. *01:18:31* I like that Pokemon a lot. *01:18:34* I think it is cool looking. *01:18:35* It's probably why *01:18:37* Y has a 1% higher rating on Metacritic. *01:18:38* Yeah, I think that I I think that's a cool looking Pokemon, but again, just like nothing to it otherwise. *01:18:41* Let's uh let's talk about Team Flair. *01:18:48* I feel like we've not like dug into them too deep and just their like overall ambitions. *01:18:50* I love them so much. *01:18:54* They're so dumb and so stupid. *01:18:56* Like who you they're they're they're like a freaking multi-level marketing company that they get people to like buy into to be like an end-of-the-world cult. *01:18:58* And they're led by the like Jared Leto on steroids. *01:19:08* And then uh he's so obviously evil, no one notices it, and then he's just like, ha ha, screw you all, I'm gonna kill everyone. *01:19:11* And then it's up to like five frickin' kids to go save him. *01:19:19* Like it's so it's so dumb. *01:19:22* Then he attaches Doc Ok arms to himself. *01:19:24* Yeah. *01:19:27* It's it's it's so it's so dumb, but I love it. *01:19:28* Like it's you this is this is like I said earlier, it's that's so bad it's good kind of Pokemon plot where you just kinda like *01:19:31* You you laugh at any time a team flare person shows up, so there isn't anything like where like Cyrus was pretty intimidating with uh *01:19:40* With like Team Galactic and stuff like that. *01:19:48* Or like Giovanni, like you feel like you're fighting a mafia boss. *01:19:50* Um like that's not here, but I I think in kind of the like Saturday morning cartoon, like *01:19:54* Here's Team Flair and the the dancing guys. *01:20:00* They're gonna get you. *01:20:03* Uh like I I just think that's really like dumb fun. *01:20:04* It it is dumb fun. *01:20:08* I just *01:20:10* I really am struggling which evil team I hate more, which is between Team Flair or Team Skull, because by God, every time you fight one of these Team Flare grunts, man, they're like, I'm so fashionable. *01:20:12* I look good in this suit. *01:20:24* I can't wait to beat you with how fashionable I am and this like shut up. *01:20:26* Team Skull is based, so I don't know if you played all uh the original Sun and Moon. *01:20:31* They're pretty based in that game. *01:20:36* Oh okay. *01:20:38* They're better. *01:20:38* I'm Sun and Moon, I think, is a better game than Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. *01:20:39* Yeah. *01:20:44* Personally. *01:20:44* Team Yell has like an interesting story angle and twist. *01:20:45* That I think is very interesting. *01:20:48* Like, Team Flair is funny because it's like it's one of those quintessential elements where they're like, oh, we need the team you go up against. *01:20:49* And instead of trying to make them like *01:20:57* intimidating or that like deep and interesting. *01:20:59* They were like, what if you were going up against these like I don't know like very like fashionistas. *01:21:01* Fa fa fashionistas like I'm rich *01:21:07* So I should survive the end of the world and you're poor and not fashionable, so you should die. *01:21:11* Uh like it's it I just find that fun. *01:21:16* And where it's like I'm not going to argue that like team Team Flair is like the deepest or best team or anything, but like I said, it's just like I enjoy whenever they they kinda *01:21:20* show up because it's so stupid. *01:21:32* And then the game gets a bit frustrating after the seventh badge when they make you run around to like a bunch of different locations. *01:21:33* Uh but *01:21:39* Well, here's what here's what I want to say real quick is like all the teams tend to have like kind of silly amb ambitions, and we've talked about this over the course of this season, you know. *01:21:40* Even Team Rocket. *01:21:50* Oh, we want to steal Pokemon. *01:21:51* Oh we I want we want land. *01:21:53* Land is what we want. *01:21:55* No water is what we want. *01:21:57* Like all these like goofy ambitions of all the teams. *01:21:58* Oh wait, getting rid of all water was a bad idea, my bad Maxi. *01:22:01* They're all silly to some degree, but this one this my biggest problem with Team Flare is like I straight up don't understand *01:22:06* What the end game here is. *01:22:14* It's just like, well, we gotta destroy everything to revert the world back to a it's it's a commentary on it's it's Horizon Forbidden West. *01:22:16* It's a bunch of rich people getting together and destroying the world so then they can then come back and repopulate it. *01:22:25* Yeah, it's kind it's Thanos saying there aren't enough resources, so we have to wipe out the population so that *01:22:31* We aren't fighting over these resources. *01:22:37* It's actually a very it's a very anti-rich uh Pokemon game, if you want to get uh do a deep political reading of Pokemon X and Y. *01:22:39* It's about the bourgeois. *01:22:47* More French. *01:22:49* Off with their heads. *01:22:52* It's just so out there and crazy though. *01:22:53* Before we started uh this podcast, I was reading up on the side. *01:22:55* I was kind of I was being quiet in our conversation because I was reading off to the side trying to *01:22:59* Refresh myself on what exactly Team Flare is trying to do in this game. *01:23:03* There's just reading the Wikipedia here and it says Pokemon *01:23:07* Yeah, I know it just says, but it's just so funny when you read it laid out. *01:23:11* Lysander informs the everyone of the fact that he is the leader of Teen Flair and he intends to destroy humanity. *01:23:14* Afterwards, the player discovers a secret lab underneath a cafe where they formally meet a nine-foot man named Az, who reveals he's a 3,000-year-old king. *01:23:20* It's just like *01:23:30* What? *01:23:31* That's a normal sentence. *01:23:33* Wait, I've never got his name. *01:23:35* Why can't he tell you his name? *01:23:37* How can you not A Z *01:23:40* It's A Z. *01:23:42* Uh yeah, it's not ass. *01:23:43* Um I mean, but here's my thing, it's like, how do you read that and not have an emotional reaction to it? *01:23:44* But that's that's my thing. *01:23:52* It's just so and it is funny, but I at the same time like and then it goes on as is revealed to be a 3,000-year-old king who once used the quote *01:23:53* ultimate weapon, which utilizes energy yes to end a war in Kalos. *01:24:01* Allo has his AZ's decision made him lose the Pokemon he loved the most. *01:24:08* It's like *01:24:13* We just get like all these like wires crossed at this point in the game. *01:24:14* It's like, what is going on? *01:24:18* Like, yeah, it's one thing if if it's one thing if Team Flair wants to reset humanity, but why is there a 3,000-year-old king who misses his *01:24:19* Floet. *01:24:27* Like that was that was their attempt at lore. *01:24:28* Like I said, it's just I it's it's you love it or you hate it. *01:24:31* Like it's just so dumb. *01:24:34* I kind of love it. *01:24:36* Like I won't argue it's good, but yeah. *01:24:37* This is very much because of just the year we're playing this in, but this three thousand-year-old king, AZ, using the ultimate weapon to destroy or end a war. *01:24:41* Totally had me like, this is Oppenheimer. *01:24:51* This is that's that's where my brain went. *01:24:53* Yeah, no, I I think I thought the same thing. *01:24:57* I mean I really do appre I've I cracked up. *01:25:01* I I get what they were going for, but when Lysander sheds his single tear and reveals it's they asked, they're like, What about the Pokemon? *01:25:04* And he sheds his tear and *01:25:12* There will be no more Pokemon. *01:25:14* I thought that was pretty funny. *01:25:16* But then obviously the great meme, right? *01:25:18* That I see everywhere. *01:25:21* This game gives us one of the memes. *01:25:22* It's been 3,000 years. *01:25:24* And I really like, you know, I've seen that meme, I've liked that meme before, and now I I have appreciation for the context of it. *01:25:26* So I think what you're saying is uh Christopher Nolan should make an Oppenheimer successor about AZ *01:25:34* I think that's what I've done. *01:25:40* Could you imagine he's like, I'm gonna do a Pokemon movie. *01:25:41* A three-hour talking movie about the *01:25:50* the three thousand year old king. *01:25:53* H the name of the movie is gonna be uh uh a Kalos Prometheus *01:25:55* Yeah. *01:26:02* I mean he could play with time. *01:26:02* It does have the time angle that Christopher Nolan uh would like to play with. *01:26:04* I know I already said I'd prefer if they just did a remake to kinda *01:26:08* smooth out out the game's rough edges, but I am curious what like a Pokemon Legends game in Kalos would be like, like if you actually saw that history. *01:26:12* I would like to see a Pokemon war. *01:26:20* I like the idea of there being a great Pokemon War. *01:26:22* And I like the I like the cutscene sort of there, the image you see of all the Pokemon like pff *01:26:27* battling with one another at one point in time, it's like this is kinda sick actually. *01:26:32* Yeah. *01:26:37* But I don't understand *01:26:37* Here's my here's my biggest question. *01:26:39* Why is this man nine feet tall? *01:26:41* Yeah, people are just taller because he's evil *01:26:44* He's evil and that makes him big and he's gotta he's gotta be intimidating to these small children. *01:26:47* It's purely physical so they can frame camera shots where he's like *01:26:53* bigger than these children, so he's more intimidating. *01:26:57* It's just the only reason he's nine feet tall. *01:26:59* It's just so funny that like I I don't understand how they never try to explain how he's still alive. *01:27:01* They never try to explain why he's nine. *01:27:08* He walks up on that parade either. *01:27:11* And he just my favorite thing is his animation where he throws his Pokeball out, he just kinda like *01:27:13* Underhand just drops it in the floor. *01:27:18* He's just there we go. *01:27:20* We're gonna fight. *01:27:21* Here's a Torkoal fight. *01:27:22* Fight. *01:27:24* It is uh he's he's very goofy. *01:27:25* Lysanders is very goofy. *01:27:28* Uh *01:27:30* Uh the game is just goofy. *01:27:31* His arc too, AZ's be arc like being the final moment of the story with oh, it's been three thousand years and then it ends up *01:27:33* Well, I I I was gonna say it's not cool. *01:27:41* I was going to say the moment I was like I because you after you beat the champion, I put my DS down, I'm feeling good. *01:27:43* And then they do this parade thing that's like, oh, there's one more battle. *01:27:50* I was like, oh, that's really cool. *01:27:53* The battle was easy. *01:27:55* Yeah, but it wasn't I like that idea of there being a fight after the credits. *01:27:56* I guess more what I'm saying is like um *01:28:00* I don't like his arc is hi the conclusion of his arc is like the epilogue and it's like dude I just met this guy after the seventh gym. *01:28:04* Like you don't you have no like *01:28:12* You have just such a cursory knowledge of who this dude is and he just shows up and you're like, oh there's this tall man out of prison cell and then all *01:28:15* I I don't know. *01:28:23* It's supposed to be this like probably the uh best written scene in the whole game, though. *01:28:24* So it's not saying much. *01:28:29* It's supposed to be like this yeah, this emotional payoff, and it's absolutely *01:28:31* No. *01:28:36* Yeah. *01:28:37* Oh yeah, that's the thing where like, yeah, you could've it would have been cool if he was more involved with your journey and he's like this older guy helping you. *01:28:37* Maybe if he was the Pokemon professor. *01:28:43* Or something like that might have been a professor's night. *01:28:45* Or or he's or if he was like the mega evolution guru or something, I think they could have uh gone further with with that and like incorporating him more. *01:28:49* in the story. *01:28:58* Well let's talk about that. *01:28:59* Um because I actually wanted to talk about mega evolution and I want to start dipping into the mechanics and uh *01:29:00* And some of the like new gameplay implementations here. *01:29:08* Let's start with Mega Evolutions, um, which I know we have played previous games in this series max which have included them. *01:29:11* Um, just Omega, Ruby, and Alpha Sapphire, I believe. *01:29:16* Um and Sun and Moon. *01:29:20* Um so it's not necessarily *01:29:22* Yeah. *01:29:25* Yeah, they I think they were supported. *01:29:26* There weren't new ones, but they were supported. *01:29:29* It didn't put it in front of your face as much as this game does, obviously. *01:29:33* So in that sense it's not like a wholly new thing that we're talking about here in the course of this season, and neither will be a couple of the different things we talk about. *01:29:36* But *01:29:44* Generally speaking, like I like Mega Evolutions, and I I think Mega Evolutions, I like how they're implemented and I like that there's a strategic level to it. *01:29:45* And obviously Game Freak has just continued, do you know *01:29:53* think that this is the way forward with Pokemon. *01:29:58* Oh, mega evolutions were great, so now we have to do uh uh what are we to do a new mechanic every game. *01:30:01* Yeah, yeah. *01:30:06* Terast terraslization and what are the giant tall Pokemon? *01:30:07* Dynamaxing. *01:30:12* Dynamaxing. *01:30:12* Like the like Mega Evolution has paved the way for these other things. *01:30:13* And I kind of hate that because I think Dynamaxing and terrestrialization sucks. *01:30:17* Uh or it's just not as interesting. *01:30:22* Yeah. *01:30:25* It's it's interesting because like, yeah, terrestrialization's kind of like *01:30:25* you're just making your Pokemon more powerful. *01:30:29* Like it's it's neat to unlock like more powerful Pokemon with like different abilities, sometimes new looks. *01:30:32* Like and I think it was it was an interesting layer, I remember, in the lead up to *01:30:38* to this game and to Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire to be like, oh, which Pokemon are they gonna like power up like that? *01:30:43* And yeah, I think I think it's a fun gimmick, um, to like *01:30:51* reward players who choose specific Pokemon to open up new gameplay mechanics to possibly give *01:30:55* some worse Pokemon new avenues to be better. *01:31:03* I mean most people I think use like Blaze used the good ones like Blaziken and uh *01:31:07* like the the Kanto starters and Lucario and like those are all obvio obviously good but uh I think it's a very interesting mechanic to kinda when you when you have so many Pokemon to kinda *01:31:12* go back and revisit them and I and doing the like alternate forms that they've done since is also like a neat approach, but I do think it's cool to kind of be like *01:31:25* Here's a way to do like a fourth evolution even though like we don't want to actually do that like here's a way to think about like *01:31:36* Oh, maybe you should have one Pokemon on your team you could power up or do a whole team of it and then decide who you need to power up during a battle. *01:31:43* And it's it's definitely one I wish they explored. *01:31:50* for more than like two games is the the primary focus. *01:31:52* Sorry to jump in before I know you're gonna talk Max. *01:31:56* I just want to mention too, that's the that's what I like about it is that it adds it makes sense within the context of Pokemon that there's like *01:31:58* a further evolved form beyond what Pokemon you think they could max out at. *01:32:06* Like, oh, Charizard can't level up anymore. *01:32:11* And it turns out no, there is one step beyond that. *01:32:13* Like it makes sense that this mechanic *01:32:15* Like terrestrialization is dumb because it's just like I turn into a big jewel and I attack stuff. *01:32:17* It's like, what is going on here? *01:32:22* I mean you're it's just uh there are ty it's a type change, which is *01:32:24* Terrassization. *01:32:28* It's a it's a it's a yeah, but I guess what I'm just saying is like it doesn't it makes mega mev mega evolution makes more sense *01:32:30* because evolution is already intrinsically part of Pokemon, whereas your poke your Pikachu turning 300 feet tall doesn't make *01:32:38* as much sense or something like like you know what I'm saying? *01:32:47* Like it's just like yeah the the Giganamaxing or whatever it's called is like like that felt like a worse version of Mega Evolution to me. *01:32:49* Where it like wasn't as interesting to do. *01:32:57* I think Z moves were an interesting evolution of the that idea with uh Mega Evolution, where it was kind of like you have these *01:33:00* special Pokemon. *01:33:07* Now let's take a move like Splash and make it useful, actually like as a Z move. *01:33:08* Um and so yeah I do I *01:33:14* Do you think there's more potential here? *01:33:16* I would like to see them revisit the idea of Megas. *01:33:18* I know that might not I think it's actually a bit of a controversial opinion for Pokemon fans, but um *01:33:21* But like, yeah, I th I think it it was like a neat new idea. *01:33:27* It it gave them and it was also another way for them to kind of attract the fans of older Pokemon, because it kinda kinda could be like uh *01:33:31* Oh, you can come back, get a uh get like a Gen 1 starter, get Mewtwo, and then you have like new forms of these old Pokemon that you know. *01:33:39* Uh and I I think that uh that's to keep older fans entertained, I think Pokemon needs an element like that, and I think Game Freak now prefers to just do that with new regional forms. *01:33:49* instead of like mega evolutions, but I do believe that like mega evolutions and Z moves are kind of better gimmicks than uh like the *01:34:01* the the maxing out your Pokemon and like terrestrializing them. *01:34:10* I've yeah, absolutely. *01:34:14* I've I remember Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y being all over this marketing for this game. *01:34:15* And in Char it's interesting, Charizard's the only one out of those Gen 1 starters that had X and Y forms of that mega evolution. *01:34:22* I mean, Mewtwo did too. *01:34:29* Yeah, I wish they did that more. *01:34:31* That's like another neat thing. *01:34:32* Because that's a cool I think that's an interesting way to differentiate between the two versions is have a unique form. *01:34:34* Yeah. *01:34:40* Mega. *01:34:40* Or or they could have done like a Hitmon Lee Hitmonchan thing where it's like, depending on like your Pokemon's IVs and Eevees and *01:34:41* certain stats or something like they could form different like there I there's still a lot of room I think for them to explore that that idea that they just like didn't do. *01:34:49* Yeah. *01:34:59* I Mega's was cool mechanically thinking about it, just you know, how do you get this *01:35:00* Here are these stones, how do they use it? *01:35:08* Some do change the typings. *01:35:11* It increases stats in some areas, but then lowers them in others. *01:35:13* I just didn't use it very much in the my main playthrough of the game because the Pokemon that I wanted on my team to Mega Evolve, which was originally a Garchomp and then it was a Metacham. *01:35:17* W uh those stones don't get unlocked until the postgame and you have to update or upgrade the the mega ring. *01:35:29* So I wasn't using it in the main game. *01:35:38* I I I think even one time I was fighting the the rival girl. *01:35:41* And she said, I hope you'll show me the power of mega evolution. *01:35:46* And I was like, I can't. *01:35:48* I don't have anyone on my team. *01:35:49* Oh yeah. *01:35:51* It's that's the game heavily encouraging you to where they're like like especially with the loop bar. *01:35:52* Well they give you the loopario and the gen one starters, like I *01:35:55* Yeah, that's it's not great that the game tries to go like, oh hey, like here's two Pokemon we think like should be on your team *01:36:00* Once again, though, I think that's something that the the series kind of could have improved with going forward. *01:36:08* Where it's like once you have more Pokemon that are do have mega evolutions, like *01:36:12* It's easier to like the to make a team that's more fully fleshed out. *01:36:18* Like the the new Kalos Pokemon didn't have 'em either, which was kind of an interesting choice. *01:36:22* Um, which I think is good because it gave like older fans reason to come back. *01:36:28* But like I used all Kalos Pokemon on my team, so like I didn't I didn't use Mega Evolution this time. *01:36:32* But I think it's also an interesting thing to to build a team around where you're like, oh, maybe I'll use an Aerodactyl or a Charizard or an Ivysaur or whatever. *01:36:39* Because I want to mega evolve it. *01:36:49* I I just want to say this. *01:36:51* What Pokemon do you think of all of them that Max ended up using on his team that was his mega evolution Pokemon? *01:36:52* Well I didn't tell Tomas my team. *01:36:58* I know I know but I'm just Are you a dirty guard of our user? *01:37:01* No. *01:37:06* I did go back to our um our Alpha Sapphire video. *01:37:06* I did use a guard war in that one. *01:37:10* one. *01:37:12* But no, this time I used uh King's Khan? *01:37:13* Nope. *01:37:16* That was one I looked at, but I missed it the only way to get that Pokemon is in that cave early on in the game. *01:37:16* Yeah. *01:37:22* And I found that out after I had left it and I didn't want to backtrack. *01:37:23* and get it at a low level and grind it up. *01:37:26* So I almost did. *01:37:29* Because I like the idea of that double hit where it hits twice every time. *01:37:30* Yeah. *01:37:33* Oh, it's such a good idea that like now the baby's outside. *01:37:33* Yeah, I like that a lot. *01:37:37* No, I ended up using MetaCham. *01:37:38* Uh Mega Evolved. *01:37:42* Yeah, that's that's an interesting choice. *01:37:44* It was gonna be Garchomp, but then I switched um *01:37:46* Garchomp loses speed when he mega evolves. *01:37:49* And so I wanted to keep him fast. *01:37:53* And so I switched to Metacham. *01:37:56* So *01:37:58* Is uh it was interesting, but I couldn't get it until it's so it was it's the things like you can't get the stone until the post game. *01:38:00* And you can only get the stones between 8 p. *01:38:08* m. *01:38:10* and 9 p. *01:38:11* m. *01:38:11* So I actually had to set a reminder in my phone so I could remember to open up my 3DS and go get it. *01:38:11* So that *01:38:17* Yeah, it just wasn't a mechanic I gotta use a lot. *01:38:18* That's weird, but it's also it's also fun. *01:38:21* I think the the game's post-game content is pretty poor. *01:38:24* In general. *01:38:29* Outside of the there's the looker thing, which is cool, but that's not really like battle gameplay. *01:38:30* And then they have like the *01:38:35* the battle house you can grind in or whatever. *01:38:37* So I think that was their attempt to be like, oh, like come back and play every day once you've beaten the game and look for a megastone. *01:38:40* But it it's really just you nowadays it's like, oh, I looked it up on like Bulba Pedia or Cerebee and like s m messed with my 3DS's clock and then went and picked the stone out. *01:38:47* I was reading about this because I was like, oh, I'll just change the clock. *01:38:59* If you it if you change the clock. *01:39:02* It would lock you out for two or two days, I think. *01:39:05* Yeah, but because I w uh I had a a Rotom on my team and you can only get a Rotom in the haunted haunted house or whatever, abandoned a motel. *01:39:09* on Tuesdays. *01:39:18* I was like, ah, this is not good. *01:39:19* So uh I was pretty bummed that they figured that stuff out too *01:39:24* I wanted to ask you guys, again, another new gameplay thing here would just be fairy types inclusion. *01:39:28* Um, again, we've played plenty of other games this season, Max, you and I, that have had fairy types. *01:39:34* And fairy types as a whole have been around for a decade now, so I think we're kind of used to them by this point. *01:39:40* I did want to just broadly ask though, because this is the game they are inclusion. *01:39:45* um what you guys think about fairy types, how it has changed Pokemon competitively. *01:39:51* Um *01:39:58* I mean I can just throw this out there right now. *01:39:59* I hate fairy types. *01:40:01* I really hate how like I understand why they were included. *01:40:03* They were included as a way to sort of nerf dragons because dragons were way too strong in the competitive *01:40:06* They were just they were way too strong for a long time. *01:40:13* Um, and fairies were kind of introduced to lessen dragons uh that much more. *01:40:16* But now, in doing so, I feel like fairy types *01:40:21* are now the types that it's now the type that is cracked. *01:40:24* Like Fairy Type has been broken for a really long time. *01:40:28* And I wish it was just never introduced in this game. *01:40:30* So, I mean, I kind of I agree and disagree, where like I do think the inclusion of some new type was necessary at this point, and I think it is necessary. *01:40:34* Like I hope they introduce a new one like somewhat soon because you need to kinda like inject something to like rebalance the game every once in a while. *01:40:44* Yeah. *01:40:51* But um but I think where they messed up. *01:40:51* was that fairy types' weak main weaknesses are like kind of rarer ones. *01:40:55* Yeah. *01:41:00* Where I think I think if they had just even if it was something weird like rock *01:41:00* or something that was weak to, uh, that it would have it would have been better because not everyone sh puts a poison or steel type on their team and *01:41:04* poison and steel attacking moves. *01:41:14* Like at this point the games got better about adding some like useful ones into the mix. *01:41:16* Um *01:41:21* Like this is where we've started getting better moves, but at this point there were also like less good attacking moves of both of those types that existed. *01:41:22* So I'm really glad you brought that up because that was like the two-pronged thing with why they introduced fairy types. *01:41:31* They wanted to make poison more powerful and steal more powerful and also lessen dragons. *01:41:37* And this accomplished that on paper, but well, yeah, I totally agree with what you said. *01:41:42* Like, poison and to me, poison is never something that's supposed to have been offensive minded in the first place. *01:41:47* You know, it's something that you're supp *01:41:55* I I've always thought of poison types like you want to slowly chunk down with chip damage. *01:41:56* With yeah, with chip damage with toxic and stuff like that. *01:42:03* And then *01:42:06* Um, so I've never thought uh I've never found it that odd previously that like, you know, poison didn't have too many other Pokemon that it typings that it was super uh effective against. *01:42:07* Steel is the one where *01:42:17* It's just, yeah, steel steel is meant to be defensive-minded first and foremost. *01:42:19* It's kind of a defensive typing. *01:42:23* Um and *01:42:26* it's not there's not many abilities or there's not many attacks, like offensive powers that are good. *01:42:28* Like even if you have a steel type like Max, we we did a battle and you actually one shotted me with a steel move and that shocked me. *01:42:35* Um, because most steel type moves in these games are not that powerful, even if they are super effective. *01:42:42* Yeah. *01:42:49* This this game's where they started kind of getting better. *01:42:49* But yeah, it's still I think I think it's the fairy types in a better state now, like a decade out, because they've had time to like add more moves and different things. *01:42:52* But I do agree that it was kind of like they invented fairy type to dethrone dragon type and then fairy type just kind of became the new dragon type. *01:43:02* Like you you kinda you need like that that kinda *01:43:10* Like one type needs to be kind of best in some ways. *01:43:14* Uh and you can you can argue that maybe that is some other types, but uh *01:43:17* Like fairy types, I think, kinda took dragon's place instead of solving the issue, which I think is definitely an interesting thing. *01:43:21* And I think even game balance and game speed wise, like X and Y was a step down from like *01:43:29* uh black and white and black and white and white too where those are some of like the smoothest and best playing and most balanced Pokemon games. *01:43:35* Um *01:43:42* Where's this one because there's like a new type and like new moves and it's in 3D and the battles run at like five frames a second? *01:43:43* It can feel a bit clunky to like do the the battles at times. *01:43:51* I just felt like *01:43:55* I mean, I I also agree with everything the two of you have been saying, just about like why Fairy was brought into the games. *01:43:56* But I just feel like for the game that was supposed to introduce Fairy *01:44:04* Like I said about the gym leader, there's really not a lot of fanfare about it in the game. *01:44:09* There's no focus on the new Eevee Lucian in the game. *01:44:14* I didn't see an Eevee actually I think I saw a Vaporeon maybe, but I didn't see really anything else in the game. *01:44:17* Uh so there's no celebration of that. *01:44:23* They should have probably made the starters steal poison uh like fairy or something like that. *01:44:26* Uh like as as their secondary types, so you kinda have an idea of how that works or something. *01:44:33* Like I think that might have been a better way to kind of get the new type in on the ground level where it's kind of like, oh, you're gonna see, you're gonna see like *01:44:39* this new type early on and then like a check for it early on. *01:44:47* So Yeah it just for that. *01:44:50* It just felt almost kinda like a *01:44:53* We'll just throw this in here to to change those game the balance on certain things, but we won't like super celebrate it. *01:44:57* It just felt *01:45:06* Kind of lackluster in that way. *01:45:08* I'm and then it granted, it has been ten years since its introduction, which just feels way longer than *01:45:10* I mean when you say it, it sounds like it's been a long time, but it feels like fairy just came out sometimes to me. *01:45:19* I think I think we're just getting older. *01:45:24* Yeah, that's probably what it is. *01:45:26* So you know *01:45:28* It's it's interesting, and I would love to see another type enter the fray, I think, just to shake things up again, but then we'll probably have the same problems and we'll be complaining about it anyway, so *01:45:31* It's probably really tough over there. *01:45:44* Yeah, one issue in this generation too is I didn't didn't find most of the fairy types that compelling. *01:45:46* Like I used a Florgus, but like Florgus could have also been a grass type or something. *01:45:53* You know what I mean? *01:45:58* A lot of 'em like the the birds could have been flying type. *01:45:58* So I think I think it took 'em like another generation or two before they finally started. *01:46:02* like making fairy types that are kind of more like like oh okay I understand why this is is a fair like like a pure fairy type or a fairy type *01:46:07* Or finding ways to like make it a secondary type that it's like, oh here's a fairy with a huge hammer, so it's fairy steel. *01:46:16* That's the thing that I have an issue with as well, is that like *01:46:23* Why isn't Flor Florgus a grass type as well? *01:46:26* Like it can learn all these grass moves. *01:46:29* It clearly should have that as a secondary typing or something like that. *01:46:31* It strikes me, yeah. *01:46:34* It probably was one at some point in development. *01:46:35* And then they were like, oh, we probably should have like an early game pure fairy type to introduce it. *01:46:38* But then not only that, they go back and they retroactively change *01:46:43* other Pokemon from the past and they're like, hmm. *01:46:47* I like I understand this thought, thought process, and they've done this previously. *01:46:49* They you know they did this with Gin 2 as well. *01:46:53* But like some of the Pokemon they've chosen from previous games to then make fai fairy types, it's like like I think of like Merrill in Azumarill, it's like, oh yeah, that's a fairy type now. *01:46:56* It's like, where did you get that from? *01:47:06* Like what? *01:47:08* Like *01:47:09* I don't really understand how they have chosen which ones are gonna be fairy types and which ones aren't. *01:47:09* Um because I mean again previous ones just sort of made sense, you know, like *01:47:15* Like when they introduced steel, it's like, okay, well like magnum magnemite should now be a steel type as well. *01:47:20* That's just duh. *01:47:25* Like it looks like that. *01:47:26* But where did you get some of these other ones from now that are now fairy types? *01:47:28* So um *01:47:32* Yeah, I I mean overall like I I do think fairies have fairy typing has become it started to feel more balanced in the more recent games again. *01:47:34* Like I I didn't have as big of an issue with it in *01:47:42* Scarlet and Violet for sure when we played those. *01:47:46* Uh over the past couple years um it has been *01:47:48* rough uh getting it implemented into the competitive scene. *01:47:54* And I feel like it's particularly rough here. *01:47:58* And yes, they could have done more to put some *01:48:01* fairy types a little bit more face forward in this game. *01:48:03* Cause there really is just what? *01:48:06* Xerneas, Florgus, uh there is the trade evolutions. *01:48:07* Yeah, there's um and then there's a couple there's a couple others like Klefkey is one, isn't it? *01:48:14* I like I like Klefki a lot actually. *01:48:20* Uh but yeah, there's they could have they could have done more or made it a bigger *01:48:22* uh thing. *01:48:27* I think they kinda tried to make up for it with like the oh we turned some older Pokemon fairy types. *01:48:28* Yeah. *01:48:32* But yeah, I think that's that's one of the things where it's like I think it *01:48:33* This that's this game introducing an element that needed that's not perfect here, but it just needed a little more time to like develop and get better. *01:48:36* And it has gotten better. *01:48:45* Kind kind of another signifier that this is like the start of the like *01:48:47* New era for Pokemon. *01:48:51* I wanted to also ask you guys, we've we've touched on it throughout the course of this episode, and I just wanted to get a general *01:48:53* Or just talk about it a little bit more individually here. *01:49:00* What you guys think about the Pokedex overall, uh, in terms of like the new Pokemon included and stuff like that, um, and how you feel like it fits within the larger *01:49:02* Series. *01:49:12* I'll say this. *01:49:12* Um I feel like every episode I yeah, I think I struggled this time, like, settling on my team, and that made me think that this dex is bad. *01:49:13* But the more I've looked at this dex and the more I've looked at like *01:49:23* consider the mega evolutions as part of it as well because I definitely think they are to some degree. *01:49:27* I think this is actually one of the better decks in *01:49:32* the series. *01:49:37* There are still some holes in it, like there always is. *01:49:39* I will say this too. *01:49:42* One of my biggest problems that there is that there's not enough *01:49:43* Um three level evolution Pokemon in this deck. *01:49:46* So that kind of annoys me. *01:49:50* Like there are certain Pokemon that I feel like should have evolved one step further. *01:49:51* I think of like *01:49:55* Heliot. *01:49:57* I'm like, that does not look like the final of all form of that one maxes the electric type. *01:50:00* I'm shocked there's *01:50:07* There's no middle one between like Bergmite and Avalug, because like I used an Avalug. *01:50:08* I did use an Avalug too. *01:50:12* Yeah, yes. *01:50:13* Like, yeah. *01:50:14* I I feel like there is some there there is absolutely some Pokemon in this dex that I feel like there should have been *01:50:15* interstitials between them. *01:50:21* Like Neubats kind of another one. *01:50:22* Um there there's just a lot of Pokemon in this deck which only evolve once. *01:50:25* And you know that's fine, but like *01:50:30* I think of here like Hone Edge and D Doublade and Aegislash, like I think. *01:50:31* That's a fantastic line. *01:50:36* I think that's a great line. *01:50:37* Um and there's really *01:50:39* Like outside of the starters, it's like Aegislash, Talonflame, The Bugs, which I really don't consider, Florgus, and like *01:50:42* That's about it. *01:50:52* Like, there's not many three-level uh Pokemon in this deck or and then and then Gumi and Gudra. *01:50:54* Like, that's about it. *01:51:00* Like, there's really I just I I just named them all. *01:51:01* So *01:51:05* I I think that's a little odd in this, especially compared to some of the previous games. *01:51:05* And I mean I mentioned this to Max, but like um looking forward at like the black and white Dexes, that's like night and day. *01:51:10* Basically everything in black and white. *01:51:16* Or maybe not everything, but like *01:51:18* A large chunk of the black and white Pokedex is like Pokemon that evolved twice, um, which I think is cool. *01:51:21* I've always loved that. *01:51:27* That's also a thing where like they had to make 151 new Pokemon for that game. *01:51:28* Whereas this one I think they were very consciously like *01:51:33* Oh, well we we need to get some older fans back on board, so let's bring back a bunch of older Pokemon. *01:51:36* And then we're gonna we're gonna have like new Pokemon still, but it's gonna be like a less amount b than before, and that probably meant like some three stage lines became *01:51:41* became two stage lines and that Yeah. *01:51:50* Or they just or they just s set out to make two two stage lines. *01:51:53* So I think that that's kind of more of a thing where it's like, do you want like *01:51:56* More three-stage evolutions, but less Pokemon overall that are like new? *01:52:01* Or like do you want like more like new families of Pokemon? *01:52:05* I think that is one of the biggest disappointments with this Dex is just how few new Pokemon there actually are. *01:52:10* I mean when you consider the MAGA evolutions, it gets a little bit better. *01:52:16* Max, how many new Pokemon do you think are in this game? *01:52:19* I don't know if you've actually taken a look. *01:52:21* No, I I never do. *01:52:24* Um I don't know. *01:52:25* Sixty-nine. *01:52:29* Sixty nine out of nice out of how many. *01:52:30* Yeah, I don't know. *01:52:37* The decks the decks goes from 650 to 719 in this game. *01:52:38* So there's only sixty-nine new holy Pokemon. *01:52:43* Out of how many in the game can you get? *01:52:47* Like *01:52:49* total the total decks number. *01:52:50* Oh, I don't know. *01:52:53* I I I only ever consider new nuance. *01:52:54* That's closer to like a a two hundred or something, I think. *01:52:56* Like Okay. *01:52:59* So that they say like roughly a quarter. *01:53:00* Yeah. *01:53:03* Yeah. *01:53:04* Yeah, like a third or so. *01:53:04* I don't know. *01:53:06* Which yeah. *01:53:08* So yeah, I think that that that's kind of the thing. *01:53:09* I do think that the ones they have here are all pretty solid. *01:53:11* Like there's some funky looking ones. *01:53:15* Like I actually *01:53:17* disagree somewhat with your three evolution complaint because I think most of the middle evolutions this generation look very weird. *01:53:18* You don't like Quiladin? *01:53:26* Yeah, the Kokulden I love because he's derpy. *01:53:28* And I and I like the uh the like uh the middle um like Braxian or whatever their name is. *01:53:31* But then like a lot of the other ones you named where the middle evolutions are all *01:53:37* very awkward, so I I am I am okay cutting out like a weird middle stage and just getting the like the cool tree or like whatever with like um Trevnet. *01:53:40* For me, I've just realized *01:53:51* in my journey here really with Pokemon is uh I have no idea when any of these Pokemon were introduced and *01:53:55* all a blur to me and so I don't know. *01:54:03* It's an encyclopedia up here. *01:54:06* Yeah, I'm I'm actually been impressed that I'm starting to recognize some names actually. *01:54:08* And *01:54:13* you know, like, oh, I know what this is or I've seen this before. *01:54:14* So I'm getting like slightly better. *01:54:17* But Logan, you know, he'll always be like, you know, look at, you know, how many of these are new or what are you using that's new from this team? *01:54:19* I look at Saraby constant. *01:54:27* Well I'm looking at CeraBee as well, but I just look at the game's decks in order. *01:54:29* So that's like what they have sections of on CeraBee where you can categorize it by uh *01:54:34* Just new Pokemon in the game. *01:54:41* Yeah, but I don't like the way that played out. *01:54:42* I don't like that page on those sites. *01:54:44* I like just the decks in order. *01:54:46* I just want to know what's in the game. *01:54:47* Yeah, I just yeah, this I don't know. *01:54:49* It's all a burr to me. *01:54:51* So all Pokemon are new Pokemon to me. *01:54:52* This is kind of where we're at. *01:54:55* Just the way that you've played them. *01:54:57* I mean they'll all be new to you in black and white, so there you go. *01:54:58* Except for ice cream. *01:55:01* I think I s I'm aware Vinilux is an amazing design. *01:55:03* I that's I'm aware of it. *01:55:07* Well I guess what I'm saying is like they'll all be new to you in the sense that like you'll have Pokemon that are inherently quote unquote new to that region. *01:55:10* or gin or whatever, because that's the only option you have uh in black in black and white here. *01:55:18* As we kind of wind down, per usual, I wanted to ask you guys about the music. *01:55:24* Obviously this is always a bit *01:55:29* core thing with these games? *01:55:31* Did any tracks really stick out to you? *01:55:32* Did you have any strong feelings about the Pokemon X and Y? *01:55:36* Score. *01:55:40* It's a great soundtrack overall. *01:55:41* Lumios City's theme I like. *01:55:43* I think it's it's one of those tracks that's kind of like uh the Uncharted main theme or like Guar Plains and *01:55:45* um Xenoblade Chronicles where it kind of like inspires you to uh explore the first time. *01:55:52* Like it's a very kind of uplifting melody where you're just kinda like, wow, I want to go and explore the big city uh when you hear it *01:55:58* And in specific route themes, I'm kinda I'm bad with like music and music channels. *01:56:06* But some of the route themes I I really uh enjoyed. *01:56:10* They're just kinda like right- light and breezy. *01:56:14* The the I like that the it's like a synth wave gym battle theme, which was like unexpected. *01:56:16* When it popped up. *01:56:22* Uh like I it's none of the other gym leader themes really sound like that. *01:56:23* Uh Team Flare doesn't have nearly as good of a theme as um *01:56:28* Black and white 2 Team Plasma's theme is outstanding. *01:56:33* I I can't wait till you guys hear that. *01:56:36* Um I know it. *01:56:38* But uh yeah. *01:56:39* Uh but uh still I think this had the Pokemon games always have great music and I think *01:56:40* That's one thing that wasn't sacrificed at all in this like jump to 3D, the music's still great. *01:56:45* Yeah, I I wr I also wrote down *01:56:51* Comment on the gym leader theme. *01:56:54* It felt like a song that just kept building but never resolved, which is I think actually not terrible for a gym battle theme because *01:56:56* the resolution would be you winning, not necessarily losing. *01:57:07* Sword Sword and Shield, I think, did a better thing like that where it's like it's building a crowd over the crowd. *01:57:10* Oh, the crowd is great. *01:57:15* Yeah, the crowd is great. *01:57:16* You kind of see the groundwork for that here almost and how that builds. *01:57:17* I wrote down that I like the Route fifteen music. *01:57:21* Now sitting here, I don't remember what that sounds like. *01:57:24* And as you're listening to this, you're gonna hear Route 15 beneath my voice *01:57:27* So hopefully you like it too. *01:57:31* But I couldn't tell you even where Route 15 is. *01:57:32* It's probably shout out to Route 15. *01:57:34* Yeah, shout out to the Route 15. *01:57:36* Um *01:57:39* So yeah, it's it's good. *01:57:40* I also like the power plant tune. *01:57:41* I wrote it was very grooving and smooth. *01:57:43* Oh yeah, the power plant is a good one. *01:57:46* Um I I do not think Oh I I also like the emotional one when AZ's Pokemon comes back. *01:57:48* Like I I think that's I I always think Pokemon does good piano numbers. *01:57:56* Three thousand years song is we'll call it. *01:58:00* Yeah. *01:58:03* Yeah. *01:58:03* I uh *01:58:04* I did not think there were many earworms in this one. *01:58:05* I I feel like I feel like all Pokemon soundtracks are pretty good. *01:58:08* That doesn't mean I'm saying that this is bad. *01:58:12* Um but I don't think it *01:58:15* I'll say this too. *01:58:18* I think a lot of this comes down to my feelings on how sound is used with the 3DS. *01:58:20* There is like a crunchiness. *01:58:27* and like a limitation to the sound effects on Game Boy, Game Boy Advance and DS. *01:58:29* And I feel like there's start as they started to expand the sound capabilities here on the 3DS further, obviously they were able to do more. *01:58:35* But I feel like something was lost in like you mentioned, like they started getting into like weird, like synthwave stuff, and that's like cool, and I I I think that there are some good tracks in this game that do that. *01:58:43* But there's something inherently *01:58:54* Not Pokemon vibey about it to me at the same time. *01:58:57* I don't know if that makes any sense. *01:59:00* Um I think they got more experimental. *01:59:03* Like this was a very experimental game *01:59:05* So I I'm sure with the music they were also like, hey, do what uh some new things now that you have the 3DS's power. *01:59:08* Uh but I I think that does make it one of the more distinct soundtracks looking back, like the the some of the themes. *01:59:15* Like uh I actually don't remember it off the top of my head, but I just remember the Elite Four themes. *01:59:22* Like there was something about it that stuck out to me too. *01:59:28* So I think I think they the this has some of the like weirder themes for like *01:59:31* the major encounters, which I think kind of makes it soundtrack stand out. *01:59:36* And I've also played it so much where like the songs have kind of forcibly become *01:59:39* earworms, but uh but like the Lumios theme theme I think is like one of the all-timer Pokemon themes. *01:59:44* Yeah and I mean per usual the gym theme's good, the champion theme's good, the Elite Four themes are good. *01:59:51* Like all the battle themes are *01:59:56* are are great, like they like you would come to expect. *01:59:58* It's it's mainly like the areas in between the various towns and or uh one of the f one of the *02:00:00* uh ice-based cities. *02:00:07* The final one you go to is uh Snowbell. *02:00:09* Yeah, I think that that one's got a good song. *02:00:12* Uh yeah any of the snow any of the snow based towns have a good song. *02:00:14* If you have a snow level, it has to have a good song *02:00:17* Yes. *02:00:20* So yeah, all of all of those I thought were were good. *02:00:27* Other than that, yeah, just *02:00:29* Not as memorable for me, but again, I didn't remember large swaths of this game until we played it this time around here, so *02:00:31* I think that's it. *02:00:40* If we want to talk about legacy, was there anything else that either of you wanted to talk about generally with this game before we kind of wrap up here? *02:00:41* Yeah, I mean just I mean I've I've said this multiple times, but I do this is really like I think *02:00:47* Whether you like the games or not, like you can recognize that this is a very important Pokemon game. *02:00:54* Like this this is kinda if you s were to split the Pokemon series into like two halves, like *02:01:00* There's before X and Y and there's after X and Y. *02:01:06* And I'm curious when that next split's going to be. *02:01:10* I think Legends Arceus might might have been the start of that, uh definitely. *02:01:16* Uh but yeah I think it I I just think it's an interesting game to look back on, see their first attempt at all these different things like Mega Evolution's fairy type. *02:01:21* like battle gimmicks, uh, and see even the issues that they still have. *02:01:30* Like issues we we all have with Pokemon X and Y, you can probably also apply to like every game that's come since. *02:01:35* So I think this was kind of the first game that exposed a weakness of Game Freak. *02:01:42* Even as someone who likes these games, I can recognize that like the jump to 3D brought a lot of downsides that the series has never fully been able to shake off in terms of things like performance. *02:01:46* um and like a focus on battle gimmicks, but uh like still I think I think it's uh a game that y shouldn't be overlooked as much as as it is, because it is it is one of like the the weirdest *02:01:57* um and yet like most important games in the series. *02:02:10* Yeah, it's it's so clear to me. *02:02:15* It's it's like you said, Tomas, it really is the dividing line. *02:02:18* And that's it feels almost obvious when you think about it in the context of when it came out. *02:02:22* It was the jump from two the from the DS to the three DS. *02:02:28* They really were pushing this is, you know, this is kind of like, oh, a 3D console-ish version of Pokemon, but in your hands on the go, which is so ironic considering what the Switch would ultimately become and give us. *02:02:32* But even though this game has pacing problems or sometimes just doesn't really hit or it's easy to get lost in Lumeo City or *02:02:45* You know, the villains are pretty goofy in this game, like even more than some normal sometimes for Pokemon. *02:02:57* It's it is a dividing line. *02:03:05* that has ultimately led to some of the coolest stuff in Pokemon that I've experienced so far in our journeys. *02:03:09* Whether it's these different battle mechanics, I think it is important to highlight the fact that this kinda *02:03:16* This game truly, truly brought the concept of Pokemon from every generation *02:03:23* Bring it forward with Pokemon Bank and the virtual console versions of those original games having bank integration *02:03:32* It this was this builds again, it's that dividing line. *02:03:40* Like Pokemon Bank was this original iteration of like how do we get your Pokemon stored digitally? *02:03:44* And also have services revenue from it, but now has led to something like Pokemon Home, which over the past couple of games I've been using *02:03:50* Pretty regularly, and I love it. *02:03:59* I think this is such a cool way to keep these Pokemon alive. *02:04:01* And it the capabilities on the 3DS with Pokemon Bank and and X. *02:04:06* Start here, right? *02:04:12* And bring us all forward. *02:04:13* And then fairy type, which as we've talked about is last typing for the last ten years. *02:04:15* I mean, it's *02:04:21* Whether we like the type or not, it's been important to the franchise and the gameplay and the battle mechanics and stuff. *02:04:23* So it's this game is important whether or not it's my favorite of the bunch. *02:04:29* Uh I mean but it it feels good to have gone back and actually finished it because apparently I was really close last time when it came out ten years ago. *02:04:35* Yeah, I think Tomas really did hit the nail on the head when just with what he said in like this game's legacy and like *02:04:48* Yes, it is an important game and it it did kind of serve as a transition. *02:04:56* Like you think of the big transition games in the history of the Pokemon series and you've got *02:05:01* Obviously the first ones, and then you've got uh Ruby and Sapphire and then Diamond and Pearl, and then this this is up there too, because uh any of those first games on new hardware are always big *02:05:06* transition titles for the series. *02:05:17* Yep. *02:05:19* Um except for Scarlet and Violet, which is kind of weird because they're coming at the end of this Sword and Shield on the first home switch. *02:05:19* And they had they had the thing. *02:05:26* No, I know I know, but I guess what I'm saying is I I would argue that Scarlet and Violet are two of the biggest transition games in the history of the series, and they're coming at the end of a lifecycle of a console rather than at the start of a new one. *02:05:27* Um, anyway, so yes, it is important, and they did introduce a lot of mechanics here that would go on to become more important later, like we talked about how. *02:05:40* mega evolutions kind of paved the way for Z Z moves, which paved the way for Dynamaxing and Gigantamaxing and Tarastalizing. *02:05:49* And so like a lot of how core Pokemon gameplay has developed has stemmed from this game. *02:05:57* Um in a big way. *02:06:03* And so I think that this game uh definitely had a big impact on what Game Freak would go on to do next with this series. *02:06:04* But yes, other than that, I do think this game's legacy is just *02:06:12* I I I don't want to get I mean, it's always my own opinion, I guess. *02:06:17* I was gonna say I don't want to be have my own subjective opinion mixed in here too much, but like I do think this game is just very forgettable. *02:06:21* I d I d I don't think there is any *02:06:28* Outside of the Pokemon that they included and the mega evolutions and things like that, like I I do think like the gym leaders and the stor Team Flair and the legendaries and a lot of that stuff are just *02:06:31* super forgettable. *02:06:43* Everything that has seen here has since been like improved upon. *02:06:45* We've played a lot of Pokemon games this season and like I would you would think that by the time we would reach the end of this that I would be like *02:06:49* Pokemon out forever. *02:06:56* But no, like there are other games that we have played this season that I think I would like happily go back to and play through once again with a new team and stuff like that. *02:06:57* This is not one of them. *02:07:06* This I am fine from this point moving forward. *02:07:08* If I if I never end up playing in either of these games again, I think that will be okay. *02:07:11* Yeah, I think they had to be games. *02:07:17* Like I said, I I or I like I said at the start, I played these like freshman year of high school. *02:07:19* They were very formative. *02:07:24* This was right when I was getting into like *02:07:26* games super hardcore and consuming games media super hardcore, so it kind of just engraved in ingrained itself for me. *02:07:28* I'm a big fan of in the same way you're describing, like I'm a huge fan of Ruby and Sapphire. *02:07:37* And I know some people don't like those games as much, but those are like my Pokemon games. *02:07:42* I love those games. *02:07:46* Sapphire is my favorite uh Pokemon game, like one of my favorite games of all time. *02:07:47* Yes, I I adore those games. *02:07:51* games. *02:07:53* So and I know some people have problems with them, but like I'm ride or die for that gen. *02:07:53* So yeah, I totally under I I totally understand your own feelings and where you're coming from. *02:07:58* But yeah, having played them all back to back in this *02:08:02* manner for the over the past year. *02:08:06* Not not all of them. *02:08:08* I have done the some of them close to each other somewhat before, but not not what what you guys have uh *02:08:10* have done here it's uh very very impressive it's been it's been fun and we're nearing the finish line this this has been nearly a two-year venture *02:08:18* for us to be honest because we start we started I think we started Max I mean it'll be much closer. *02:08:26* You reached out to me about like two years ago being like hey *02:08:33* Here we want you on the Pokemon. *02:08:36* Yeah, I think it was last spring when we first played uh Fire Red and Leaf Green. *02:08:38* So it's been not two years, but we're it we're getting about eighteen months. *02:08:43* Yeah, no, it's a long it's been a long time coming, a long time planning. *02:08:46* and a whole lot of Pokemon catching. *02:08:50* Well, I think that does it for our discussion on Pokemon X and Y. *02:08:54* Thank you all so much for listening. *02:08:58* If you'd like, you can check out more of the show over at chapterselect. *02:09:00* com with all our other seasons. *02:09:05* Tomas on season one, he's been with us from the beginning. *02:09:06* Uh he did an episode on Pokemon Color Splash with us and there's all those other episodes. *02:09:08* Paper Mario. *02:09:13* Paper Mario. *02:09:13* What did I say? *02:09:14* Pokemon Color Splash. *02:09:15* Which I would like to see. *02:09:18* Uh there you go. *02:09:19* Paper Mario Color Splash *02:09:20* And you know, that's kind of coming back with Thousand Your Doors, so that'll be exciting. *02:09:22* But uh you can check out the show, you can listen to it wherever you do, and then uh check out Super Chapter Select for longer episodes, exclusive episodes. *02:09:25* And bonus videos, we've got our battles for Pokemon all season long. *02:09:33* Uh we just recorded our Pokemon X and Y battle the other two nights ago or something, so that was really fun. *02:09:37* So sign up is just two and a half bucks a month or twenty dollars a year. *02:09:44* So you can check that out at listeningwithsuperpower. *02:09:47* com. *02:09:50* If you'd like to follow Logan on Twitter, you can over at Moreman Twelve and his writing over at comicbook. *02:09:51* com. *02:09:57* At X God, stop it, please. *02:09:58* It's Twitter. *02:10:00* I can't do it. *02:10:00* I can't say it. *02:10:01* Um you can follow Tomas over on Twitter at Tomas Friends Easy and his writing over at Digital Trends. *02:10:02* He's got a couple of reviews coming up soon, so you can check all his work out over *02:10:08* there. *02:10:12* And if you like, you can uh find my work over at maxfrequency. *02:10:13* net and then my other show, uh the Max Frequency Podcast, which Tomas has been on as well, and Logan. *02:10:16* But Tomas is the guest here, so he's been on *02:10:21* on the show too. *02:10:23* You can check that out. *02:10:24* But thank you all so much for listening and until next time, adios. *02:10:25* Chapter select is a max frequency production. *02:10:30* Chapter Select is supported by you. *02:10:33* You can gain access to longer episodes and bonus content by going to chapterselect. *02:10:36* com forward slash join. *02:10:41* This episode was research, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *02:10:43* Season six is hosted by Logan Moore and myself *02:10:47* Season six is all about Pokemon. *02:10:51* For more on the season, go to chapterselect. *02:10:53* com forward slash season six. *02:10:55* You can follow the show at Chapter Select and check out previous seasons at chapterselect. *02:10:58* com. *02:11:03*