# Chapter Select, [[S6E9 - Pokémon Black and White]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- I'm gonna be ordering the Last of Us Part 2 remake while I'm at your house. *00:00* Hope your fiber can withhol withstand my rapid ordering procedure. *00:04* Lord, I don't think there's gonna be a whole lot of *00:09* Sprinting for that one. *00:13* You're gonna buy that? *00:14* Oh well I guess they were releasing the stuff. *00:15* Yeah. *00:20* I don't like I don't I think the cards will actually be kinda cool. *00:21* The cards do seem cool. *00:24* That was the one that's. *00:26* Like it's the full pack, it's the full set. *00:26* That's neat. *00:29* Uh-huh. *00:30* I don't care about patches or pins. *00:30* I just want the steel case to match the other steel case, like to have the set. *00:32* That's all. *00:38* You can display Dr. *00:39* Uckman proudly. *00:41* Yeah, that'll be cool. *00:43* And what is really honestly, if there wasn't a special edition, it was just *00:45* Just you can buy the game physically or you can buy it digitally for the the I'd I'd do the $10 upgrade for sure. *00:51* And I'd get it physically later down the line. *00:57* The only reason I'm buying it is because of the the addition. *00:59* What do you think of the uh the roguelike horde mode? *01:04* I don't know. *01:11* I think it's cool that they're adding something new. *01:13* One of my buddies who works at another site said on he said ah yes nothing says cycle of violence like an additional roguelike issue mode *01:18* Yeah, that's true. *01:31* It's cool it's cool they're adding a *01:32* New advice. *01:37* The lost levels thing is the thing I'm kind of more interested in, but like I also that is not what I'm into. *01:38* But I also fear that that will be very, very bare bones. *01:45* Like they're like, we're adding four lost levels of things that were cut out. *01:51* And like *01:56* Okay, but like it it I'm gonna guess a lot of it's like story-based moments, like that one of the things they showed looked like the dance hall area of the game. *01:57* Yeah, like approaching the dance. *02:07* Yeah. *02:10* So I bet it's like nothing I bet it's just like walk and talk portions of the game more than anything. *02:10* I doubt there's gonna be like a whole like, here's a *02:16* 60 minute shooter area that we cut out of my understanding was they're they cut some of the sniper stuff from when you're um *02:20* When you're playing as Abby and you're on approach to Tommy, there's there's more sniper gameplay there. *02:31* And *02:38* Then uh I'm curious if the boar will make an appearance. *02:40* They cut from God of War? *02:45* No. *02:48* Atreus shoots him *02:48* Yeah, no, the part when you're at the farm and uh Ellie is at the uh *02:50* She goes to I feel like it what is it? *03:00* There's a part they had near the farm where you actually are like out hunting. *03:04* And there's a bore and this and you like chase this boar down and it charges you and fights you and it's kind of this whole thing that was *03:08* supposed to be symbolic, I guess, of her stress and whatnot. *03:16* Um, but they cut it. *03:20* So I'm kind of curious if that'll be there. *03:21* But I think that's cool though in general, just conceptually, of here's stuff that we cut and *03:22* Here's why and what we were thinking. *03:30* Like, and and I mean that for any developer. *03:32* That's pretty cool insight. *03:34* So I'd like to walk around those and see that stuff. *03:36* And *03:39* If I can do that right away, that's probably actually what I'll do. *03:40* I think I think you can. *03:44* I imagine you can. *03:46* But yeah, I'm gonna play them back to back because I haven't played part one yet. *03:48* So I'll play that *03:52* leading up to it, get the plat, and then I'll uh I'll hop over right to part two. *03:54* I'll have this back-to-back PS5 thing. *04:00* That'll be a lot of fun, I think. *04:03* Don't you know you can't play anything other than Metroid and Castlevania next year? *04:04* Not anymore, baby. *04:09* We canceled that structure. *04:10* No, I am. *04:14* I'm I I've been itching to play. *04:15* The last of us games? *04:19* Yeah, because I've had part one, you know, since it came out and I just 'cause you're you're you're used to having *04:21* your daughter around now and you think you can tolerate it's been over a year since she was born so you can tolerate playing those games now maybe *04:28* Cause I know that was why you said last year you're like, I don't think I can play this right now. *04:36* Well, she was also because when did it it came out *04:41* In the fall. *04:46* September. *04:47* September, like right when she was born. *04:47* Yes. *04:49* I was like, I don't think I can do this in general. *04:50* Like she's new. *04:53* I'm now a dad. *04:54* I feel like you were playing other I'm trying to think what we were playing last year. *04:55* Resident Evil 4 Resident Evil 4 was the first game she saw. *04:58* Yeah. *05:02* Different different uh man escorting girl around game. *05:03* But I have thought about that. *05:08* I'm like, and again, it's it gets into your head. *05:11* It's like, oh, this is so emotional. *05:14* I should feel something. *05:15* And I'm I've I've tried to just wash wipe that away, but just be like *05:16* I know what this game is and I know the emotional beats, and so like whatever I feel in the moment, I feel in the moment, but I'm not forcing myself to have some sort of pressure of *05:20* Oh, I gotta feel this way, 'cause I'm a dad now. *05:29* LA You know, I can't I I'm not doing that. *05:33* I did feel something when I watched the T V show, and she was a brand new baby then. *05:36* I will I'll never forget watching um ironic uh ironically the uh the Bill episode. *05:41* She had a hundred and four fever. *05:48* Oh geez. *05:51* She was so sick that night. *05:52* And it was we were watching the episode she's laying on me and the thing they do with babies they tell you to do with babies is skin to skin so that they can regulate their temperatures. *05:54* So I was like sitting there with her on me. *06:02* on my chest. *06:06* And I was like, if she has a hundred and five fever by the end of the episode, like before bed, we'll have to take her to the hospital. *06:07* Because a hundred and five is when you take *06:13* kids to the hospital. *06:15* Well that's probably when adults should go to the hospital. *06:17* Probably that's so yeah, so she but she never went over a hundred and four and the Tylenol brought it down and she she ended up being *06:21* But that was like the first time she was sick too, like super sick. *06:29* And so I was just like watching this episode of Bill falling in love. *06:33* And she's just laying there sleeping trying to like regulate her temperature. *06:37* What do you think about the girl who might play Abby? *06:43* Do you like it? *06:46* Uh I think it so I like the actress a lot. *06:48* Actually *06:52* So she kind of got her big break on uh Last Man Standing, that Tim Allen sitcom. *06:55* Mm-hmm. *07:00* And there's an episode where she's golfing. *07:01* And I found the episode. *07:04* And it's like the first opening five seconds she's swinging a golf club. *07:06* So like I wanted to do an article and just have that clip in there. *07:09* Like, oh look, she's she's already tried out for the role. *07:12* But she's a great actress. *07:16* She has a good range. *07:18* Um, I think she's a good pairing size-wise to uh *07:19* The brat the the girl, but she's not Abby. *07:26* Like Abby is a big jacked muscly lady. *07:30* So that's my kind of like they're the same size. *07:34* She honestly *07:36* is a lot like Ellie physically. *07:37* So it's like it's a little weird. *07:41* But I like the actress in her work, and I think if that's true, she'll do great. *07:42* And they can do whatever they want. *07:47* But she does not remind me of Abby. *07:48* That's kind of I was kind of saying similar things. *07:52* Like we were talking about it at work the other day. *07:54* And like some people were like, yeah, heck yeah, this would be awesome. *07:57* And I'm like, I don't know, man. *08:00* I'm like, I just *08:01* I was like, broadly speaking, I just do not see part two adapting like straight adapting the game. *08:03* I I just do not think this being *08:12* I don't I don't think it'll work well as a TV adaptation. *08:14* I'm like I I don't see I already struggle to see Bella as Ellie in some sense *08:17* Now you're telling me she's gonna be a psychopathic five-foot murder machine sprinting around Seattle killing people in droves. *08:24* And like now you're telling me this girl that's not even *08:33* big. *08:37* I'm I'm not saying she needs to be six five or something, but Abby is big. *08:37* She's muscular. *08:42* She's she's just I'm like I'm like you've we've now cast two very tiny women to play these roles. *08:43* And I was like I was just bringing some of this stuff up and some people were like, that sounds like such a gamer complaint logan, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. *08:51* That sounds like something you'd hear incels. *08:57* I'm like, that's not like that sounds like something you'd hear inc *08:59* Sales complain about on Twitter. *09:02* I'm like, what are you talking about? *09:03* I'm like *09:05* This is like I'm like they're I'm like violence is like a huge part of the second like it is the game central. *09:06* It is very, very, very key. *09:13* That like Ellie is going nuts and murdering people left and reading. *09:16* Like that is a with a pipe in a basement. *09:20* Yeah. *09:23* While she's gurgling on her own blood. *09:23* Yes. *09:26* Yes. *09:26* So like when you have the actress who is playing there, Bella Ramsey is literally five foot tall. *09:27* Like she's tiny and she looks like she's twelve *09:32* So you're telling me I'm supposed to believe that she's running around killing this band of mercenaries or what and cult people left? *09:36* Like I I I don't know. *09:44* I've just like I think it's gonna be a chronological season *09:45* I don't think it opens with Joel dying. *09:50* Like I just I don't see that happening because Pedro *09:53* Well I say that Pedro, if Pedro is really in Fantastic Four, I don't know how his schedule is gonna open up to allow him to film that. *09:59* Because in 2024 he has Last of Us. *10:08* Potentially Fantastic Four if he's really gonna be in that. *10:12* He's one of the main characters in Gladiator 2, which is still filming right now. *10:14* Yes. *10:20* He has like three or four like huge things lined up and then on top of that he's like now doing *10:22* Fantastic Four supposedly. *10:28* And people are like, how is he gonna do this in his schedule? *10:29* And they're like, well, he probably won't be in Last of Us very long. *10:32* Maybe. *10:35* Alright. *10:36* So if you look at it like that, possibly. *10:36* But I can't *10:38* The show would still have even then the flashback sequences, right? *10:40* Whether or not they do it in chronological or not. *10:44* There's still gonna be the museum, there's still gonna be the dance, there's still gonna be *10:46* Well it just depends on how much they do in season two. *10:50* Because they've already said they're planning this as a two-season project. *10:53* And if so I think you can show they can do what TV does well. *10:57* And cut to other characters doing other things. *11:01* And so if it is chronological, where y we get to see Abby's reaction to Jerry's death, uh and the zebra stuff, you know. *11:03* Well, let's help this. *11:11* We'll probably have an entire episode about that. *11:12* Yeah. *11:14* Um *11:15* And then maybe we can see kind of what they're doing. *11:16* Maybe they make up stuff of like what Abby's doing. *11:19* Like how she gets integrated with the wolves, maybe. *11:23* While Ellie's at the museum. *11:25* Like we can they could flesh some stuff out and just kind of build up to these things. *11:27* And maybe *11:32* The e if they don't kill Joel right away, maybe that's what the end of the season is. *11:34* You end on Joel's death, and then everyone's clamoring for season three. *11:38* I don't know, but I just I can see them doing it more chronologically and maybe filling in some gaps. *11:42* And they clearly have no problem *11:49* completely rewriting bits for the show, which is fine. *11:51* And actually what I would prefer is come up with some new stuff. *11:55* You know, they gotta there's gonna be Dina stuff and Jesse, maybe we see that. *11:58* Early romance blossom. *12:02* The only thing I demand that has to stay in is Smash Brandy's cooch. *12:04* Yes, it has to stay in there. *12:12* That has to stay in. *12:14* How I'm kind of curious. *12:16* So obviously they've they're remastering part two, shocker, shocker. *12:18* But a lot I think a lot of people picked up *12:23* Yeah, you know what I it's really they're just natively porting it to PS5 is really what they're doing. *12:26* And and they're getting more juice out of that. *12:31* But uh *12:33* A lot of people picked up part one because the show finished, they got a PS5, or on their PC, they're playing part one *12:35* I imagine a lot of people are gonna be like, oh snap, let's play part two and the game opens up and they're like, oh no *12:43* I think that'll be interesting. *12:51* I am curious how many people still don't know that he dies. *12:53* I mean I assume there's a decent amount. *12:56* I imagine there's like *12:57* It's an interesting Venn diagram, right? *12:59* How many people, normal people, watched the show, but then also didn't immediately go look up like Last of Us Two or Last of Us Season Two and *13:02* And then just have that spoiled for them. *13:11* Like it that overlap probably is pretty large. *13:13* Yeah. *13:17* So I don't know. *13:18* It still hits though. *13:20* Yeah. *13:22* Also, really the vibe of the trailer for Remastered feels so different when it's just all out in the open. *13:23* Like that trailer leaves nothing *13:31* To uh suspect. *13:34* It's like uh Joel's dying and Abby is playable character. *13:36* Like all the mystery before launch initially is gone, and so it gives it a totally different vibe. *13:41* Which is fine, like they can market it. *13:48* Obviously this the candidates have. *13:50* Joel's dead. *14:00* We need to go to this new area and hunt down his own. *14:01* Which I uh admire and appreciate. *14:11* That's *14:13* I don't. *14:14* That I hate. *14:15* I like it. *14:17* That is just straight fake and disingenuous. *14:18* That I hate. *14:20* It was one scene. *14:22* It was one scene. *14:23* Yeah, but it's still fake and disingenuous. *14:25* Like, I don't know. *14:27* They just didn't have to do that, I guess, is my thing. *14:28* Like you're then you're straight you're straight up *14:31* Everyone straight up dead because of the original teaser. *14:34* He was all like in a silhouette. *14:37* He's like, I'm gonna kill every last one of them. *14:39* Or she said that. *14:41* And everyone's like, Joel's dead. *14:43* So I think they did it to keep it away, but then obviously everything leaked right before. *14:45* I mean, this is three games in a row for them. *14:50* And two of them are Sony's fault. *14:53* Like it's directly someone on Sony's end pushed a button, scheduled something wrong. *14:56* It's so frustrating *15:02* Just in for any studio, have your game leak. *15:04* This is the last thing I'll say, and then we should probably get going, is I am just *15:08* I am saddened to see. *15:13* I like Last of Us. *15:16* I like. *15:18* These games are good. *15:20* I enjoy them. *15:21* But I'm very saddened that this is all they're doing now. *15:23* Like we have gone Part 2, Last of Us 1 remake, Last of Us Part 2 Remastered *15:28* Multiplayer game is still out there in the ether, maybe. *15:34* Part three. *15:37* Druckmann's doing a TV show. *15:37* It's just like, ugh, this is we're we're gonna enter like a 12 to 15 year span where this is all they put out. *15:39* And it's just like, I wish he would make something else. *15:45* I wish he would go dabble in I mean unjun Uncharted's gonna go to another studio, I feel like. *15:49* Oh, it already has to be I I think they've actively teased it. *15:54* Yeah, yeah, I agree. *15:58* But it's just like and I but I feel that I feel the same way with any company. *16:00* I don't want to make it sound like I'm just like this on the company. *16:05* I feel that way with Santa Monica. *16:07* Yeah, I do too. *16:09* Which is why when I hear that they're mate that uh Atreus goes to college. *16:10* Well, I was gonna say it's why when I hear that Corey's new game he's helming is like a *16:14* sci-fi game or something like that. *16:18* I'm like, dude, heck yeah, let's go. *16:20* Like that is. *16:22* Come back to the sci-fi thing? *16:23* Cause that was like that was before Ascension and that got canned. *16:24* Well he's he's been pretty straightforward that he's been working on something else. *16:28* Like that's why Well, I know he's working on something different. *16:31* I just didn't know if it's a good thing. *16:34* Yes. *16:39* I don't know if it's what they were doing before, but I've just heard it's like in that genre. *16:40* They infamously had a sci-fi game that they were making alongside Ascension and then it got canned. *16:45* So *16:51* I mean we'll see. *16:52* But like that like that. *16:53* We'll see Atreus goes to college. *16:58* if it's real. *16:59* Like I know you're like criticizing that. *17:03* I'm totally into that. *17:05* Because I think that I think that sets up them to do another Pantheon jump with the next mainline game. *17:07* rather than having the next mainline game. *17:14* Like just do the Atreus stuff you want to do as part of one of these like Miles Morales style style spin-offs. *17:16* Yeah. *17:21* And then bring it back full circles. *17:22* That's fine. *17:25* I think in his own game though they could do more with his abilities. *17:26* Maybe yeah, I guess. *17:30* That that's fair. *17:31* But it'll we'll see. *17:32* We'll see what happens. *17:34* Uh but I do agree with you. *17:35* Like not are you so talented. *17:36* They have these, you know, these expertise to explore new things and they've just sat in the Last of Us World for the last decade. *17:39* Well, even the one thing that I was like most interested in seeing them do maybe not *17:47* Personally to play, but like just on paper would have been the multiplayer game. *17:51* Shh maybe. *17:59* I don't know. *18:00* I know. *18:04* I don't know. *18:07* And I think So all the reports say that like they have like a skeleton crew working on it, which does not inspire *18:07* But I think I think out of all their live service games, and even the ones now we're hearing that some of them are on I like being pushed, like they're slowing the roll a little bit. *18:18* The Last of Us will be one of them that comes out sooner rather than later because of the IP and where everything is, all this synergy. *18:28* TV, games, remasters, blah blah blah blah blah. *18:36* Like the that game will see the light of day. *18:40* And it's interesting because we're going to see some of the mechanic. *18:42* We're going to see some of these mechanics and ideas, I think, in this horde mode. *18:45* But I'm telling you, that game will come out. *18:48* We'll see. *18:51* I I mean when you downsize dude, all I'm saying is like if all the reporting is accurate and they have downsized the team that team greatly *18:52* Like I don't you you you don't downsize a team before a game launches, you know, like to the degree that people have been saying. *19:03* So like that clearly means *19:11* That those who are still working on it are trying to retool what it is and like rethink certain aspects of it. *19:13* For all I don't know. *19:21* I don't know. *19:23* We'll see. *19:23* That's what I think the development on it is right now, is them trying to rethink whatever snags they ran into. *19:26* Like it's clearly not being developed or created in the sense that like they're pushing towards a launch. *19:33* But again, if we believe everything *19:40* Everything that's been reported. *19:42* They said we were going to see more this year. *19:44* Obviously that's not happening. *19:46* But the They already delayed that indefinitely though. *19:47* They already responded to that. *19:49* No, I understand that. *19:52* What I'm saying though is at a certain point they believed that we were going to s the public was going to see the game this year. *19:53* So is clearly passing internal checks, both at Nod Dog and at Sony. *19:59* And then Bungie came in apparently and was like, eh, this isn't quite as sticky. *20:05* And so that led to listening to that advice and going back to the drawing board in some way. *20:10* So there's a core though that is solid and was passing internals. *20:17* So *20:21* They're gonna retool the sticky, whatever that is. *20:22* But also now you have Bungie out here greatly missing their own internal projections. *20:25* Destiny's on a *20:30* is dying. *20:31* Destiny has its lowest player count ever. *20:33* I was talking to my buddy who I used to play with, like, when I was into Destiny. *20:36* He was like, it's bad man. *20:40* Where it's in a d it's in a dire place. *20:42* Destiny has its lowest player count ever as of this past week, and they're also just delayed the they haven't officially done it yet, but the uh expansion that was supposed to be out in two months is *20:44* No, not seems to be going to be out in two months. *20:54* I think that may open a door of well, do we really, you know, reevaluate it? *20:57* And also if they're going they're drawing back on some of the live service stuff, maybe they just go *21:03* Pivot. *21:08* And it doesn't have to be this thing. *21:09* I don't know. *21:11* We'll see. *21:12* But that's not what I'm interested in game. *21:13* Like Jim Ryan leaving, I think, is the thing I'm most curious in about. *21:15* And plus, Hiroki Totoki. *21:18* If you are not If you're trying to release a live service game and you're not like absolutely confident that you can *21:21* potentially impact the market with it, then you should just pull back. *21:31* Because how many how many live service games have we seen absolutely *21:37* release in crater within the past two eighteen months. *21:41* Like it's just been crazy. *21:45* Like everybody is trying and darn everybody is failing. *21:47* Clip Balinski shopping cart game. *21:51* Well that's like that was like six years ago. *21:54* I know, but that's what always jumps to my mind is just that was like a last ditch effort to save that whole company. *21:56* They're like quick, uh battle royale. *22:03* Back when those were hot. *22:06* Radical heights. *22:08* We'll see. *22:10* I do think it's interesting because I definitely believe they're *22:10* While I don't think the reveal of Remastered was going to be at the Game Awards because they were like based off some other tweets, it was like we were getting ready to reveal it and *22:16* Game goes on sale on the fifth. *22:25* Like you don't readjust the day your game's gonna go on sale. *22:26* I think it was I think it was slated for this week. *22:29* It was definitely not for Friday night at 6:30. *22:31* Yes, it was definitely not that *22:35* So I think it was probably this week, right before Thanksgiving, and they were gonna have stuff drooled out. *22:37* But I do think Neil had I think there's something. *22:43* Cause Neil's gonna go up there and accept the reward award for best uh adaptation. *22:46* Let's just be real. *22:51* The Last of Us is gonna win best video game adaptation. *22:52* It's not going to twisted metal. *22:55* It's going to twisted metal. *22:56* It's not going to Grand Turismo. *22:58* It's going to The Last of Us. *23:00* And I just could go. *23:02* It could it could literally go to Mario Bros movie *23:03* It could. *23:07* But it probably it goes probably. *23:09* Emile's gonna be there in the game the game awards or summer game sets, there's always a relationship there. *23:12* So I f *23:17* My brain think feels like there would be something, but with the timing of this, I don't know. *23:18* Maybe they're like, and here's a horde mode, you know, a no-return gameplay chunk. *23:23* Ah, that feels a little weird for the game awards. *23:28* But there's something, I think. *23:30* Whether it I don't know. *23:32* Anyway, let's talk about Pokemon. *23:34* Hello everybody and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal retrospective podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series exploring its *23:36* Evolution, design, and legacy. *23:43* For this season, we are covering the Pokemon franchise. *23:44* My name is Max Roberts, and I am joined, as always, by Logan Moore. *23:47* Hi Logan. *23:51* Max, this is the most philosophical Pokemon game ever. *23:52* Truths, ideals, hopes, dreams, discoveries, all the things that a philosopher needs to think and ponder about while adventuring. *23:57* Is that what it says in the opening? *24:07* Is that what it says in the little opening video there? *24:09* Yeah. *24:11* Dreams, discoveries. *24:12* That was the first note I took. *24:15* It definitely has a much different *24:18* This game has black and white have a much different vibe in some sense compared to a lot of the other Pokemon games. *24:22* It is *24:29* It is a totally different vibe. *24:29* Which I like personally quite a bit. *24:32* And we'll we'll talk about it. *24:33* But these definitely stand out within the larger series in more ways than than one, for sure. *24:35* You know, there is uh you know Logan, there are plenty of discoveries for people to make with all of our member specials that we have been making uh for super chapter select. *24:43* For just uh two and a half bucks a month or twenty dollars a year, you could sign up and get access to our longer episodes. *24:55* On this one, we talked about the recently announced Last of Us Part II Remastered and *25:03* all the implications surrounding that and naughty dog. *25:08* We've got longer episodes, member specials, exclusive episodes that talk about different things, and then uh bonus videos like in season six here we've been doing *25:10* all of our Pokemon battles in every single game. *25:19* And I think we haven't recorded this one yet, but we might be doing black and white in person. *25:22* Which we only did for uh Heart Gold Soul Silver. *25:29* We did it for uh We did it for Fire Red and Leaf Green as well. *25:33* Fire Red and Leaf Green, because you were here in Florida. *25:37* So *25:39* There's plenty of stuff to check out. *25:40* You could go over to listeningwithsuperpower. *25:41* com, find out more, and sign up. *25:44* Uh, but just check out super chapter select. *25:46* Yeah, I would like to do both of our battles in person, so hopefully both this and black and white too. *25:50* It uh it saves us from having to f uh fumble with uh *25:56* Fan servers. *26:01* I was gonna say setting up fan servers for all of this, which I'm sure would it's not that tricky. *26:03* You just have to like adjust your 3DS's internet settings, like pointing it to a specific *26:08* DNS server or something. *26:14* That makes it too difficult, but anyway. *26:15* It is another hoop to jump through. *26:19* Yeah. *26:21* It'd just be easier when we're taking a few more. *26:21* Instead we could use the power of infrared technology. *26:23* If we were just in person to do this, which I I did use that on on these. *26:27* I I like how streamlined that trading and battling was on these games. *26:32* So that's nice. *26:37* Max, let's do the rundown and then we'll get into I have a lot I want to talk about with this game. *26:38* And I I think you do as well. *26:43* And we've already been kind of talking about it before this episode. *26:45* Um, but there's still a lot that I want to dive in. *26:48* So let's do the rundown here. *26:50* Pokemon Black and White Max. *26:51* Did you know they were developed by Game Freak? *26:53* Of all studios. *26:56* I didn't I didn't know that. *26:57* Uh uh they released on the Nintendo DS, these were the second installments on the DS behind Diamond and Pearl. *26:59* Uh well second new second mainline second second yeah new generation games. *27:06* Um they released on March 6th, 2011. *27:11* The game was directed once again by Junichi Masuda. *27:15* The producers on the game were Junichi Masuda, Hitoshi Yamagami, Shusaku Egami, and Hiroaki Su *27:18* The music was then done by Shoda Kagayami, Go Ichinose, Hitomi Sado, Junichi Masuda, and Minako Adachi. *27:27* The Metacritic score on these games, Max, was an 87 out of 100, which is I feel like pretty in line with a lot of the others that we have seen across this season. *27:36* It's directly tied with XMY. *27:47* That's uh it's tied with X. *27:51* Y is eighty-eight out of a hundred. *27:53* Okay. *27:56* I feel like most of the newer Pokemon games that we've done have been right around this like mid to high eighties, more often than not. *27:57* They're kind of sitting there. *28:03* Yes. *28:04* Which makes sense for the most part, I suppose. *28:05* Um and then these games I will say *28:09* Uh as far as the user score goes on Metacritic looking at that, they sit at it's they sit at a 7. *28:12* 9. *28:18* User scores obviously don't necessarily matter all the time. *28:18* I will say as far as like Poke Fandom goes, though *28:21* I feel like these two games are kind of slept on or people have At the time I feel like people viewed them as underwhelming or not outright bad, but just I don't think they made a huge impact in the moment, and it hasn't been until *28:25* A few years later here that I think people have come to respect and appreciate these games a bit more. *28:40* Which I think is also true for me, having gone back and played it now. *28:46* Um, 'cause I haven't played this game *28:50* Since 2011, I suppose. *28:54* 2011, 2012, leading up to when the sequels would have come out. *28:56* Yeah, okay. *29:02* So I haven't played these in a very long time. *29:02* It's been over a decade. *29:04* And so revisiting them now. *29:06* I think there is a lot of unique aspects of this game that I like a lot, especially since we have played the full series now over the course of the past *29:09* For us it's been the past twelve to eighteen months, but throughout this whole season here on Chapter Select, like these games stand out greatly, like like we were saying before, and I think there is a lot of cool elements of this game that I'm *29:18* Uh excited to kind of dive in and talk to you about. *29:29* What did you think broadly? *29:33* Obviously you've not played these games before, to my knowledge. *29:34* Um so what did you think this first time jumping in? *29:38* I I had no idea what anything about these games. *29:42* The only things that I knew about these games beforehand was uh someone called N *29:45* Is pretty dope was my understanding. *29:51* Had a cool story there. *29:53* These games have quote unquote the best story in Pokemon. *29:54* And then uh I've always heard that these were good or slash great games. *29:58* So I've I've *30:02* I and maybe I just didn't hear the discussion around the time in 2011, 2012 when when these were coming out, you know, these two games, the sequels, back to back. *30:03* I don't remember hearing anything like meh about it. *30:14* I don't think these games were ever outright hated necessarily, but I feel like they are the most slept-on entries in the series, if that makes any sense, because they were, as I mentioned before, kind of the *30:18* the second generation DS games that came out. *30:29* So there's really a lot of the the the games that I think people look back on the most that they have the most fondness for are the newest installments on new platforms, you know. *30:32* The the first GBA game, the first game on DS, the first games on 3DS, the first games on Switch. *30:42* Like I feel like those are the ones people look back on the most. *30:47* So when you release a successive game, *30:49* On a platform, I feel like those are the ones that end up being kind of more forgotten. *30:51* I think this is true for Sun and Moon as well. *30:55* I don't I don't feel like people talk about those games half as much as they do with like X and Y and stuff like that. *30:57* You have to think about when these games came out though, which in North America at least, you know, black and white launched uh as we said on March *31:04* 6th of 2011. *31:15* Uh the Nintendo 3DS launched in North America. *31:17* Or I'm sorry, in Japan. *31:20* Or let's see. *31:22* So this was coming out the same time as the 3DS and Right there with Steel Diver. *31:27* Yes. *31:32* And that also means that Black and White 2 came out a year into the 3DS's life cycle, essentially. *31:33* Not even really. *31:39* Or yeah, like a *31:40* 15 months after the launch of the 3DS. *31:42* So people probably were now you could play your DS games on your 3DS, but I think there was a shift and people were waiting for that next *31:45* big Pokemon game, which would go on to be X and Y. *31:55* And so I think that probably lends a little bit to it. *31:59* Like it was it was truly the crossover tail end of the DS's lifespan. *32:02* And *32:08* Uh that could have led to it. *32:09* I think that also leads to a little bit of why these games are so stinking expensive. *32:11* Not that they didn't sell well, but they were *32:15* the end of uh console's life cycle. *32:20* Yes. *32:23* Yeah, I think that I mean all the games that don't have remakes tend to be pretty extensive too. *32:24* Like *32:29* Gold and silver are pretty expensive. *32:29* But yes, these are partic and it explains specifically why black and white too are even more expensive. *32:31* Because those came out, obviously, you're talking about how this launched the month of the 3DS, those came out of over a year later. *32:39* So the 3DS had been kind of *32:46* entrenched on the market at that point for quite a period of time. *32:49* So for you coming into this, what what stands out to you the most about this game? *32:52* Where do you wanna what do you wanna *32:57* start talking about the most because obviously there's a lot of things we could talk about whether it be the Pokedex or the story or like I I I don't know. *32:59* There's a lot of in in many ways this is a conventional Pokemon game, you know *33:07* Yeah. *33:11* There's a there's an evil team, there's team plasma, there's there's a legendary Pokemon, there's all the eight gems, and you gotta go fight and become the champion. *33:12* But they do add some new wrinkles here and there, obviously, a lot of the stuff towards the end of the game with um *33:21* how the champion and the elite four are set up, um, which I assume we will talk about. *33:26* Um there are some unique little differences here and there, but what stood out to you the most and maybe what did you like and *33:31* dislike, if anything, about this game. *33:39* So we've talked a little bit before the show in general just about some of my beef with this game. *33:41* Uh in certain aspects. *33:48* But I think some of the stuff that stood out the most to me just from the game itself is *33:49* Team Plasma and their whole design, they're very like old mages, medieval. *33:58* I got Final Fantasy III vibes from it. *34:07* Um *34:10* Or Final Fantasy VI. *34:10* Uh the cartridge says three, so I've always called it three, but it is technically the one with Tefka. *34:12* The one with Kevka. *34:19* Yeah. *34:20* I got vibes from that, especially from uh how do you say his name? *34:21* Get Gitis Gettis? *34:25* I think it's Gettis. *34:26* Gettis. *34:28* Uh very Final Fantasy III vibes from him *34:29* So I thought that was kind of cool. *34:32* Um, and I'm sure we'll talk about plasma more deep, but I I noticed a lot there. *34:34* And then *34:41* My other thing with this game, and this is a personal thing, you know, you were always talking about leading up to these episodes, was like these games *34:42* were a hundred and fifty something new Pokemon. *34:54* There were no original Pokemon. *34:57* This is an entirely new decks. *35:00* And for me, we have something that I've always called the Wind Waker problem. *35:03* This is a very max problem, but I call it the Wind Waker problem after Zelda. *35:08* And so the first real 3D Zelda that I played was Wind Waker. *35:13* And I love that game, it's great. *35:17* But then afterward, at some point I was like, man, I want to try this Ocarina of Time game. *35:18* And so I emulated it on my computer at the time, and I remember getting to the first chest *35:24* And Link, you know, f tumbles in there and pulls out the and it plays the chime then. *35:30* And I'm like, oh, that's just like from Wind Waker. *35:36* And then immediately it dawns on me and goes, oh no, wait. *35:39* It's the other way around. *35:42* Yeah. *35:44* And so for me, playing black, I recognized every Pokemon. *35:45* So none of them were new, like really new to me. *35:52* And we're playing this these are the final games we're playing. *35:55* Obviously both of the Unova games are back to back here to close out our season, so *35:57* Yes. *36:02* We we have seen all of the other all of these Pokemon before. *36:03* Yes. *36:07* And so that's not a that's not a negative on the game, but that is that is something that I think is lost *36:08* Having if you don't truly play these games in chronological order or you weren't there at the time in 2011, like the concept of an entirely new base decks *36:17* hasn't happened since these games. *36:28* Yes. *36:30* And I think that's a l it's unfortunate that it that is a that is lost in time, I think. *36:31* And and then that reflects on to me. *36:37* It was like *36:39* Well, I know what a scrafty is or this zebra electric zebra. *36:40* Like I've seen these before, you know? *36:44* Yeah. *36:46* So it wasn't there wasn't like this rush of *36:47* new uh to see and play with necessarily besides like the starters because I just hadn't used them before or the legendaries. *36:51* I think that's an interesting thing that's kind of a bummer to have uh to missed out on just because we're twelve years removed. *37:01* Well I think even you can still appreciate though just like everything after this, X and Y onward, they've been doing this thing where *37:12* They don't do full dexes of new Pokemon, but then that's really when they started indexing heavily into here's an alternate form, here's Galarian this, and here's *37:21* Hisuian this, and you know, like they start doing different forms of old Pokemon, which is fine, and it's not the worst thing ever. *37:31* But these games, uh this is the thing I really did want to talk about, is I think *37:38* Top to bottom, other than the original uh the original Canto Pokedex, because I mean nostalgia. *37:44* Also, I just think that Dex is really good, the Canto decks, but I think this is my favorite *37:53* decks in all of Pokemon. *37:58* I think this has the most variety. *38:00* I think this is the most widely balanced. *38:02* We've talked throughout the course of this season like *38:04* Why does this Pokedex index so heavily into this type? *38:07* You know, there's there's way too many water Pokemon in this dex, or there's way too many of one of one of these types. *38:11* I feel like the dex in this game is quite balanced, honestly. *38:17* And it comes before the advent of Fairy Type, which I appreciate because the last pure It's the last pure gen before Fairy Type got introduced, because I don't really like Fairy Type that much. *38:22* Because then they start going back and changing old types like. *38:33* Oh, what if Meryl was not only a water type, but it was a fairy, too? *38:36* And it's like, oh my gosh, why are we doing this? *38:40* Like, this is the last kind of pure gin in that manner, and I appreciate that. *38:42* And this really *38:46* Like a lot of my favorite Pokemon ever are in this dex. *38:48* Like I really just think it is a I love like Crookedile. *38:51* I think he's one of my favorites. *38:55* I love Haxorus, that's one of my favorite dragon types. *38:57* Um *39:00* Like just I the the thing that what's funny though is I will say this is that despite how much I love this this decks and how much how varied I think it is *39:01* And how well balanced it is, and how much I wish that Game Freak would go back to doing something in this manner where it is just 120 to 150 wholly new Pokemon and that's all you experience. *39:11* I think the starters are particularly weak in this gen. *39:22* In fact, I would say these are like bottom-tier starters in in any of the games, which is funny because *39:26* Typically so many a lot of the ways that I feel like people view different Pokedexes across Pokemon history is influenced greatly by the starters. *39:34* And I don't think the starters are that *39:43* good here. *39:46* I I actually really struggled with kind of the front decks in general, like those opening *39:47* three town, three gyms, what have you got to do. *39:55* I'll agree with that. *39:57* Yeah. *39:58* But the first, I think, forty to fifty Pokemon are kinda *39:59* lame in general. *40:03* And it's not in a very exciting way to build your team. *40:05* And I a a part of this also extends from the fact that I've adopted your mentality of like planning out my team ahead of time. *40:09* And all of the Pokemon that I wanted were mid to late to post game. *40:17* Like I wasn't getting *40:23* It wasn't a very exciting DAX up front to play with, which is kind of a bummer. *40:25* I do agree with that. *40:30* I think that's a problem in a lot of Pokemon games, especially with the sort of *40:31* The way that I craft my teams and stuff, you know, like I want this and I want to get this too. *40:36* And like like so but I try to I try to whenever I do that personally, I try to plan it out like knowing like, okay, well I can't get this one until *40:40* I get to about the sixth or seventh gym, so until that point I will use this Pokemon, which I can get a little early. *40:48* I haven't done that. *40:55* I haven't like planned a mid-team. *40:56* Like I just try to cover my bases up front. *40:58* Um like for example, Jim Five is the sheriff. *41:01* I think he is ground or rock one of the two in play. *41:07* And the game gives you basically an opportunity to go get your water duck uh on the bridge, which is *41:11* kind of what you need to beat him if you don't have you know, I guess if you didn't pick uh what's the water starter? *41:18* Oshawat. *41:25* Oshawat? *41:26* Yes. *41:26* Yeah, if you didn't pick Oshawat or I guess uh Snivy *41:27* But basically I picked the f the fire pig and really struggled with Gym 5. *41:32* My team was not properly handled to like I was under-leveled by about five levels and I just could not *41:36* defeat his team and I had to go by go catch this duck, which I didn't really want. *41:44* And then I had to like train the duck up to beat this and it was this whole that and the Did you not have any grass types on your team either? *41:49* I had the Leaf Monkey, but it was too underleveled it'd get hit and I'd die. *41:56* So like that's an example of that's the fifth gym in the game, by the way, you know, we're like substantially through the main story. *42:00* And it just like but I didn't think it I mean there's the water toad that you can get in uh in the Pinwheel Forest. *42:08* But it's just which reminds me of uh the bellabub in Scarlet and Violet. *42:17* But instead of groundwater, it's electric water. *42:24* So I think the early decks is kind of weak. *42:28* I do agree with that. *42:32* I do agree with that generally. *42:33* But the stuff later on. *42:34* Very cool. *42:37* Yes. *42:38* Um But my my other problem that kind of ties in with it, and I I know this is what we've talked about before recording the show is *42:38* The evolution chain to get a lot of cool Pokemon is so the leveling is so high to get to some of these Pokemon where they're not evolving until the mid-40s. *42:48* Some don't even *42:59* get until the 50, like you're really pushing to get the third evolution. *43:01* There's one Pokemon in the decks that doesn't involve, I think, until level 65. *43:07* In its final form. *43:12* And to be clear, that is well into the post-game. *43:14* Yes. *43:17* Because the the Elite Four is basically the upper 40s. *43:18* So *43:23* And then you can go face them again and they're in the seventies. *43:24* Yeah, and they have a full team and all that stuff. *43:27* So like there is *43:29* The leveling structure of this game is designed for the entirety of the game, post-game included. *43:33* I I was thinking about this. *43:42* In our discussion for Harkold Soul Silver, the way that they adapted to leveling, because that game's pretty hard if you're not doing *43:44* these phone call missions where you call people up and train trainers again that have higher experience and stronger teams. *43:53* Especially if you're trying to like, you know, work towards beating red at the end of the game. *44:01* Yes, for sure. *44:05* And so they want you to use these systems, the phone call and and heartgold, to level up. *44:06* But in this game it is *44:12* You're we want you to play everything and we're scaling to that. *44:14* And so I think that's *44:20* part of I'll I'll talk about my other problem with the leveling later, but I think that's a part of why I struggled with the leveling pace of this game because we're getting to the mid to late story *44:23* And I'm in the upper 30s, low forties. *44:36* And I'm just really feeling like a lack of progression in that way. *44:39* Because kind of up until this point. *44:44* Really, by the time you're at the Elite Four, in my experience, you're in the mid to late fifties, even the sixties. *44:47* to try and so it just feels slow in that way but the game is designed we want you to not be in the 60s until you're well into the post-game and *44:56* For transparency, I didn't play we did I didn't have time to really sink into the postgame and I I do plan on doing a little bit of it here after we record this, but I looked up kind of what you can do. *45:07* And like that's where the three legendary uh creatures come in. *45:17* Yes. *45:21* You can apparently go find the sages from plasma. *45:22* Yes. *45:25* Uh battle the Elite Four again. *45:25* There is basically half the map to explore. *45:28* They just half the map is post-game, which is cool, but *45:31* Given to the nature of how we're playing this, didn't really have the time to like fully flesh that out and explore and just kind of play at my own pace. *45:38* And so I think kind of rushing, not rushing, but *45:48* We're playing this for this show. *45:51* I was gonna say we have artificial deadlines because you know we're trying to come in here and record and talk about the game. *45:53* I started playing this game on the 5th of October and I beat it on the 18th of November. *46:00* So like just over a month. *46:04* So I kind of had a month of playtime. *46:05* And that was just to beat the game. *46:09* But if I was a kid in 2011, I probably would have eaten this up because it fee it probably feels like w when you're not in this this chamber of making a show about it. *46:11* It probably feels like there's so much game there. *46:24* And like the it just builds and builds and builds. *46:27* And so I think that was kinda I think that's a big reason why *46:30* I was struggling because the leveling is different than what I'm used to, and I'm playing under this time constraint *46:35* For a show, and so I'm just getting frustrated with the lack of progression I'm feeling. *46:43* I do think it's slow, it's a very slow level up, and I don't necessarily care for that. *46:48* Because it just, I don't know, in an RPG I want to feel like I'm getting stronger, and I just didn't really feel like I was getting stronger. *46:55* I always kind of felt like I was just under where I needed to be. *47:01* And that's a little like even if you'd go grind, it was it truly is a grind, because they're handing out like a hundred, three hundred experience points *47:05* for fights and stuff. *47:13* It's like it didn't feel like there was a good way to grind if you really were determined. *47:14* It was just arduous. *47:18* And I think that um *47:19* I don't know as an adult, I find that frustrating. *47:21* As a kid, I probably would have eaten it up. *47:25* So it's I think it's a tough balancing act because these games are primarily designed for younger people. *47:27* I think so. *47:33* I agree with you in a general sense. *47:35* Like we've played all these games now across this season. *47:36* Yes, this grind there is a little bit more of a grind to this. *47:39* You do level more slowly. *47:42* And yes, there are some very high levels for some of the Pokemon to evolve. *47:44* Like this is the highest uh uh level cap of any of the Pokemon games when it comes to evolutions. *47:49* So those things are all very much true, and what you're saying is not wrong by any means. *47:57* I will say though, like within the scope of the larger series, though, I *48:02* I appreciate these differences more because they are different. *48:06* Like we have played so many remakes across this season that are more in line with like how modern Pokemon has been. *48:11* And to me, modern Pokemon is like *48:18* X and Y onward, you know, when they start implementing basically 3D forward. *48:21* Yes. *48:26* When they start implementing, you know, team-wide XP share and stuff like that, um, which helps alleviate some of the grind problems you've mentioned. *48:27* So coming back to a game like this is definitely a bit jarring in that manner because we have become so accustomed to how the newer installments have been, but I really, really *48:35* enjoyed it personally. *48:46* Like, this is how these Pokemon games used to be. *48:48* This is how a lot of these, again, not all of them, in the sense that like *48:52* y you're leveling s more slowly and the level caps of some of the Pokemons are higher to evolve and stuff like that. *48:57* But just like *49:04* Just the structure of, you know, how you gotta train your team and stuff like that, and how you have to be a little bit more strategic, like, okay, I have this Pokemon and I wanna level it up and what's the best way I can do that? *49:05* Okay, I'm gonna send it out first and then bring it back and then I'll send out a stronger Pokemon and *49:15* Like those things I enjoy and I kind of miss. *49:19* Like it it there is there is a grind to it, but there's also something I like about Pokemon grinding. *49:22* Like there is a sort of *49:27* It makes you fo feel more personally invested in your team in a way that I don't think the later games have been. *49:30* Like it like by the time I got to the end of my team, I felt like I had used all six of my p Pokemon pretty equally. *49:37* Which is definitely not true in some of the lighter games. *49:44* I and for me *49:49* I think another problem was a a lot of the Pokemon I wanted, uh like my team wasn't really complete until the Elite Four. *49:52* Like I really I was playing with Pokemon I didn't want. *50:01* So I think that's another element. *50:05* I was my team was just like *50:07* I don't want this bird back, you know? *50:09* Well, I know they d they definitely like tuck some Pokemon away off the beaten path in this game too. *50:11* Like I th I know *50:17* Like we'll talk about this here in a second, but like HMs aren't really important. *50:19* I mean they are, but like they are not vital to advance through the main path, which is great. *50:25* However *50:31* They are there if you want to explore a bit more because I know once you get to, I think it's near Chargestone Cave or it's near like the fifth or sixth area. *50:32* Like once around that time when you get surf. *50:42* Um or maybe you don't get surf right then, but there's a cave around there that like they mentioned, like, oh hey, there's a cave over here. *50:46* If I could just surf over there, then I could access it. *50:52* And if you come back once you get Surf, you can go into that cave. *50:55* And that's where some of the more unique Pokemon are. *50:59* Like I know that's where you can get an Axu, which eventually involves into Haxorus. *51:01* Which is like one of the stronger Pokemon in this gen. *51:06* Um stuff like that. *51:09* So like they tuck certain Pokemon away off the beaten path, and I think they *51:11* try to encourage you to explore a bit more. *51:15* But yes, the you they are like you said before, they they are all still a little bit later into the game and stuff like that. *51:18* But there is like an exploration and a reward to that that I think is kind of *51:25* nice to and they kind of push you to to go into areas that that perhaps you wouldn't otherwise *51:30* Um but yes, I I do wish some of the some of these Pokemon were front-loaded a bit more in the earlier portions of the game. *51:37* And then there's like some weird little things too that I forgot about, like *51:44* For instance, like I remember when this game was coming out, like one of the Pokemon that they were really pushing to the forefront was uh Zorua and Zorark, uh the dark type looking like Fox thing. *51:48* You cannot even get a Zorua in this game unless you have an event celebi, which you then have to go interact with one specific person on the map. *51:59* And then you can get a Zorua, which is very strange to me that that that like I don't know, some of the ways you would get Pokemon in these older games is *52:10* just a little bit odd in that in that way. *52:20* Um and black and white too, I think they just allow you to catch one or you can just get one more easily. *52:23* Yeah. *52:28* I I noticed that when I was looking at certain Pokemon and be like, you have to do this and this game to get it. *52:29* And then black and white too, it's like, ah just go here *52:34* Like they it was they they opened up the decks a little bit more, I think. *52:36* Yes, they did. *52:39* It's funny, I did have an Infinite Celeby in one of my old games I told you about. *52:40* I was like, oh I have this. *52:43* I I guess I'll go get Azura real quick. *52:45* Just to see and I did that mainly just because I wanted to see that whole like finally do it. *52:48* Yeah. *52:52* Yeah, that whole cutscene or that interaction play out, which is kind of unique. *52:53* Um *52:57* So yeah, I I I think generally speaking though, like I said, to kind of bring this full circle, there are a ton of Pokemon in this deck that I just love. *52:58* And *53:08* You and I were talking beforehand and like moving forward into black and white uh two. *53:09* Like I am very excited to play these games again because there are so many Pokemon that I feel like I have not used still in this decks. *53:14* Like we have now I have now played I think I've only played these games. *53:23* I played white and white two back when they came out. *53:27* I've now played black for the show here. *53:29* And then we'll be playing I'll be playing Black 2. *53:32* I still feel like there's like so many Pokemon I have not used in this dex that I want to still use. *53:35* Like, cause you know how I am. *53:42* I like to try to *53:43* mix up the Pokemon that I'm using and I don't like to use the same ones every time. *53:44* Like I have ones that I prefer and that I like the most. *53:48* But I try not to recycle and reuse the same ones. *53:51* I've largely mixed up my teams and all three or *53:53* uh going on four playthroughs of this game that we've done, and I still feel like I have not used everything that I'm like interested in building a team around. *53:57* And so that excites me. *54:05* And that's something that I think gives this game much more *54:06* longevity in a sense. *54:11* And again, it's kind of weird too, because obviously there are like four or five gens after this. *54:13* And all of these Pokemon have been folded into those DAXs as well. *54:19* I know. *54:22* So in that sense, you you probably don't find that half as unique. *54:23* Um there's there's a cool looking Pokemon. *54:27* There's also some dumb looking Pokemon in them. *54:31* Don't bash the ice cream cones. *54:34* I'm not talking about ice cream cones or gears. *54:35* I'm talking about like vulture with an egg diaper on. *54:37* Uh I kinda like the vulture with the egg diaper. *54:41* I think it's so stupid looking, just as a dummy. *54:45* Uh, you know, there's there are really cool legendaries in this game, and I think we not just the main ones, but all of the kind of the ones surrounding it and the ones that revolve around the map or the event Pokemon that would eventually come out of this. *54:48* I think the legendaries in this game are pretty dope and it's uh it's a shame that we don't in our battle rules we don't use legendaries because there's some really cool ones. *55:02* Which ones do you like specifically? *55:13* I like the uh the three uh tornadoes thunderous landos. *55:15* I think those are kind of cool. *55:20* I think Kir Kiri Room, the Ice Dragon one, Ice Room or something, yeah. *55:21* Yeah, and Genesect, you know, bug with laser cannon. *55:26* That's pretty dope. *55:29* I think, you know, those look cool. *55:30* So I think the like the late Pokemon in this dex are neat. *55:32* Um *55:36* Braviary, I I know from Arceus, because Braviary is the Pokemon you get to fly around, so like there's a whole quest with there. *55:37* Braviary was one of the first Pokemon I used when I initially played this game back in the day. *55:45* That was *55:50* Uh uh my flying type of choice that I really liked. *55:51* Yeah, I like the buffalo, buffalo *55:55* thing with rings on its horns, that's neat. *55:59* I like the sharp a lot where Golurk came from. *56:01* You know, I used Golurk and I think Sword and Shield. *56:03* So it's cool to see the origin of these and I like *56:07* A lot of this like I like the late decks. *56:10* It's just kind of the early stuff. *56:13* Uh yeah, that's a big one. *56:15* Chandelure. *56:18* I like the mummy looking thing. *56:19* Uh the sarcophagus? *56:21* Yeah, that's cool. *56:23* That's a really cool one. *56:25* I even like some of even some of like the more common ones, like Deerling and Sawzbuck, like it's cool that there's a type that is *56:26* specific to certain seasons and its form change depends depending on the season and stuff like that. *56:33* Um and even some of the ones that I know people hate on. *56:40* They're like, oh this is a dumb design like *56:42* Garbador, it's a pile of trash, uh Vanillax, it's ice cream cones, cling cling, it's just gears. *56:45* Like I've come full circle to like *56:51* Especially seeing where the go in some of the. *56:54* Yes. *56:58* Jellicent is a jellyfish *56:59* Seeing where they go in some of the later Dexes as well has made me come back and like appreciate these as well. *57:01* And the thing I'll say too is I think these games, dude, I miss. *57:07* This look of Pokemon. *57:13* Like this is these games look so good. *57:15* The sprites look so good. *57:19* They are animated. *57:21* It is by far the best looking game that we have played. *57:26* The moves all look really cool too. *57:30* Like there is a this is I wish Pokemon still looked like this. *57:32* Obviously we're in a 3D era, but like *57:36* The the 3D the transition to 3D, I mean, this has been a well-documented complaint that so many people in the community have had for over a decade now. *57:38* But like in the midst of the transition, we have lost *57:47* I think just that all of the newer 3D Pokemon just do not have the same sort of vibe and feel and look that a lot of these older ones do. *57:51* um in this art style. *58:03* And I miss it so much. *58:04* They look a lot of the newer Pokemon look washed out, I think, especially when you compare them to what they looked like in these previous games. *58:06* Like *58:14* the colors on these pop so well. *58:14* The art is so good. *58:16* Like I really I miss it. *58:17* I wish we could go back to this. *58:20* If you go on if you go on a site like CeraBee *58:22* And you click on a Pokemon and then just click through the gens that it's in, you can see the 3D models and then go back to these sprites. *58:25* And it's uh to me it's no contest. *58:35* The sprites beat these three D models. *58:37* all the way. *58:40* It's just l something is lost. *58:41* And it's they even have like more personality *58:45* in these sprites too. *58:48* Like it they just look so much more well defined. *58:49* And again, adding the animations to them now, rather than j them just being static images during the fight sequences, they have all kind of got little like *58:52* bouncing maneuvers or whatever. *59:01* And some of them are more unique. *59:03* Like I think of like um what is the fighting type? *59:04* Timber, who's got the two by four in his hands. *59:08* He's like flipping it in his hands or whatever as he's standing there. *59:10* Like I think that's cool. *59:13* Um there's a lot of there's a there's a lot of personality and yes these sprites are so so good and I'm I'm looking through the Pokedex here *59:15* Too again. *59:25* Just to call out some other things here. *59:25* Like I think scullopede is like a really cool bug type, bug poison type. *59:27* Also, the cops are coming for me or whatever. *59:31* I don't know if anyone's got to be. *59:33* It's for your pokey takes though. *59:34* It is for my pokey takes. *59:36* Uh Officer Jenny is coming for me. *59:37* Is that her name? *59:41* What is the what is the what is the nurse's name? *59:42* It's Officer Jenny and nurse. *59:45* Is it Eve? *59:46* It is Officer Jenny and then nurse *59:48* Is it Joy? *59:52* There's Joy. *59:53* Yeah, why'd I say Eve? *59:53* Anyway. *59:55* Yeah. *59:56* Just Pokedex. *59:57* Good one. *59:58* Definitely one of the best. *59:58* And I I *59:59* Like we're talking about how pretty the sprites look and stuff. *01:00:00* I'm imagining I don't have to imagine because I've seen these Pokemon all show up in the later games. *01:00:03* And just thinking about like a remake for these games, which is probably what we're going to get next. *01:00:08* Like I'm like, oh, these won't it won't look half as good. *01:00:14* Uh it which is so funny because it's over a decade after this, and you you go back and play these DS games and we're like frothing at the mouth about how *01:00:18* good these Pokemon look for the for the time. *01:00:28* Um anyway, yeah. *01:00:31* Lots of great Pokemon in this decks. *01:00:33* I love it overall. *01:00:35* Max, let's talk about *01:00:36* the story doll. *01:00:37* Because this is something that we've not touched on, and I know this is something you have mentioned that you've heard about quite a bit about beforehand. *01:00:39* Something we talked about before how this game is very *01:00:46* philosophical in some ways. *01:00:49* Um I think the story is *01:00:51* Broadly, like I said up front at the top of the show, it's very similar to other all the other ones, just in the structure of, you know, there's a legendary Pokemon, there's an evil teen, there's a *01:00:56* The gyms in the Elite Four and become the champion and all that stuff. *01:01:07* But at the same time, there is some stark differences. *01:01:10* Like again, like Team Plasma. *01:01:14* They end up kind of having the same goals as some of the other teams by the end of the game, but like the way that you get there by proxy of *01:01:17* N and his story arc and just I I will say even like the structure of Team Plasma I think is greatly different, you know, with *01:01:25* You know, N being their chosen hero or leader, whatever, but then you've got Getsis kind of as the puppet master, but and then you've got all these *01:01:32* seven sages that are running around and kinda like the the structure of the group is far different, which I really appreciate and I think is uh *01:01:40* again, unique within the larger Pokemon series here. *01:01:49* Uh and then their ambitions are a little bit more mysterious. *01:01:54* And you never really *01:01:58* get the sense that they're outright evil until sort of later, like because th the the rhetoric they're spewing is not *01:02:00* Horrible. *01:02:10* They're like, you know, we must free Pokemon. *01:02:10* Everybody release your Pokemon. *01:02:13* We have been basically enslaving Pokemon. *01:02:14* Everybody you should release them and let them own free. *01:02:17* Yes. *01:02:21* So there is a Go ahead. *01:02:23* They are stealing Pokemon from people. *01:02:27* And Dennis is always always slipping up. *01:02:32* I mean Teen Plasma's plan *01:02:38* So that's, you know, the they're evil in that cartoony evil. *01:02:39* But they're they're not they're not so like cartoonishly evil w where I think of a theory. *01:02:44* past games where it's oh the team rocket and we run around and steal Pokemon or we're Team Magma and we wanna we wanna just create get rid of all the water. *01:02:49* Land only. *01:02:58* Let's revive the Pokemon Groudon and just eliminate all the water. *01:02:59* It's like what? *01:03:04* Like those are like cartoonishly evil. *01:03:05* Like these *01:03:08* Team Pliza's trying to be a little bit more savvy and um again, much different vibe, uh not only combined with their ambitions, but just *01:03:09* The structure of the org- organization, I mentioned all the sages and n's involvement and how they've raised N. *01:03:19* But then their look, this like medieval style look that they have to themselves, which is like even the opening cutscene of this game is like, this is a very different *01:03:27* tone for a Pokemon game here with the whole sort of monarchy type thing they're going for with this. *01:03:38* Um maybe not monarchy, but sort of *01:03:46* I don't know. *01:03:49* I I almost wish they feel out of place, I think, because of that, because the world around them is modern. *01:03:50* They do, they do. *01:03:57* But I also kind of like that disparity in some weird sense. *01:03:58* I I almost wish though they had fully leaned into it and maybe *01:04:02* And maybe this is more Arceus talking, but Arceus is set in, you know, early Sinnoh, right? *01:04:06* Or the Hisu region, uh, which would become a Sinnoh. *01:04:11* And they lean into this old style. *01:04:15* And I almost kind of wish these games were set in a medieval-ish time. *01:04:19* And I think that would be an interesting idea. *01:04:23* And if they ever did another, I assume they will do another Legends game *01:04:27* And if they decided to make Yenova that region, I think it would be really cool to actually have this medieval night angle to it and to have these Pokemon be around and all that stuff. *01:04:32* I think that would be a neat *01:04:44* way to go about it. *01:04:46* I kinda just wish they leaned more into it almost because I enjoyed it so much. *01:04:47* It was it was cool that way. *01:04:50* I feel like they do in some sense with some of the Pokemon, like I think of X *01:04:52* S Cavalier, which is like meant to look like a knight. *01:04:56* Um, even some of the other A lot of the bug Pokemon end up having like suits of armor. *01:05:00* Yes, yes they do. *01:05:05* And then I think of some of the others in this dex as well, like there's there's sort of like an old school or like *01:05:06* I don't wanna say like ancient, but like even like Chandelure kind of gives like off like old timey vibes to it *01:05:14* Yeah. *01:05:21* Axorus to some degree as well. *01:05:22* Yeah, you got Shelmet, which is like a suit of armor knight. *01:05:24* Even Drudigon looks like an old ancient dragon type thing, and Bisharp kind of looks like a knight. *01:05:26* Um they they kind of lean into that in some sense with the Pokemon designs, but they they they definitely don't go full tilt with it by by any means. *01:05:33* I I I hope they can lean into it more if they ever revisit Unova or in the remakes. *01:05:43* I don't know. *01:05:49* You know, there's a lot of potential there. *01:05:50* But my biggest I have a my biggest problem with Team Plasma is the hypocrisy of them. *01:05:52* Because they're all trainers and they all fight. *01:06:00* And they're like, we must free Pokemon and stop hurting them. *01:06:03* Now let's fight about it. *01:06:07* And they fight with their Pokemon. *01:06:09* And I really *01:06:11* I kind of struggled with that, like from a just a surface level of well, do you really believe what you're saying? *01:06:14* N is the only one that at least voices a stroke. *01:06:21* Like he realizes that hypocrisy and at least comments on it. *01:06:25* And it's like, I just that you can run into. *01:06:27* They are like off the beaten path. *01:06:31* Team Plasma NPCs where you can like I think of one like in Ens Castle towards the end where he's like, Oh I *01:06:34* I believe in Team Plasma's amb er he's like, I I'm fighting for Team Plasma and looking to release all the Pokemon, but also I've grown attached to the Pokemon I've raised. *01:06:42* Maybe I'm not cut out for being part of a group or whatever. *01:06:51* That's an interesting one-off, but I just I really overall struggled with the whole they you know, the ones you'd be forced to fight, they'd be like *01:06:55* And when I beat you, you're gonna have to release your Pokemon. *01:07:03* It's like, well, what about you? *01:07:06* Are you gonna release your Pokemon? *01:07:07* Like it kind of just falls apart really quick, and I get that you have to fight the villains, so it's *01:07:09* That's how you throw down in this world. *01:07:16* Yeah, and so I c I've I really was torn on that. *01:07:19* I think it's a little bit interesting that the N talks about that at least before you fight him. *01:07:23* Uh *01:07:29* uh and all this stuff. *01:07:29* But it it just it did kind of just fall a little bit on me. *01:07:31* Like, ah this is uh this is *01:07:33* Hypocritical. *01:07:38* How do you feel about the uh one-lettered boy N? *01:07:40* First off, what a strange name. *01:07:45* A terrible name, quite honestly, an awful name. *01:07:46* Yes. *01:07:49* Yes. *01:07:49* But what did you think about Anne? *01:07:50* Because he really is obviously the main sort of thrust in this game. *01:07:51* Like we've talked about Getsis a little bit and the other Team Plasma stuff, but I think Anne was hyped too much. *01:07:56* I think he was overhyped. *01:08:03* I think he's one of the better like rivals in the series, which isn't necessarily a super high bar to clear in some ways. *01:08:04* Like, you know, you've got blue or Gary, whatever, in the first games. *01:08:12* I almost would prefer though like a rival who's intentionally out in a meet like a rival who's mean to you. *01:08:16* Because Sharon in this game is a rival out to beat you, but he's like *01:08:23* nice and philosophical to you while losing. *01:08:28* Yeah. *01:08:31* And N is like just this morally conflicted boy who was raised by Pokemon. *01:08:31* Uh abuse. *01:08:36* And speaks in monologues too. *01:08:37* Yeah. *01:08:39* Very ye old English. *01:08:41* It's so um I just feel like his whole arc and *01:08:42* story and like how great he is was overhyped to me. *01:08:50* And I've interpreted that. *01:08:54* But you have to think *01:08:56* Everyone's like, oh N's the best, and these are the best stories in Pokemon, and they're really good, especially compared to a lot of the other games that we've played. *01:08:57* But I was kind of like, eh. *01:09:05* By the end of it. *01:09:07* I was just like, well, of course this is how it's gonna go. *01:09:08* Like he's you know. *01:09:11* I do think it ends really well. *01:09:13* I was gonna say this is the build-up to that fight *01:09:16* And the there's the dragon coming in and he heals you before the fight and he's like truth and ideals and we're gonna fight it out. *01:09:20* Like the whole ending. *01:09:27* The two heroes must clash. *01:09:29* Yeah, it was really epic. *01:09:30* Really *01:09:32* What is so I think that when people talk about N and how much they like him and stuff, a lot of it does have to do with just how this game converges all the storylines. *01:09:34* Like this is the only game in the series where, you know, more often than not, I feel like the legendary stuff is kinda tied up before you ever go to Gym 8. *01:09:42* Same with the evil team. *01:09:51* Like w once you once you finish those things, then you go to the final gym, then you go to Elite Four, and then ta-da, you're the champion. *01:09:52* This is the one game where it's like, nope, let's. *01:09:58* have the e team evil team storyline clash with the legendary Pokemon storyline, clash with the um the Elite Force stuff, and then all of those plot lines converge at the champion battle when Ann Ann is the champion and he has a legendary Pokemon and you have *01:10:01* to get a legendary Pokemon and fight him, and like it all kind of unites there at the end, which I think is greatly, greatly unique in the scope of the Pokemon series for sure, because there are no other games in the series that do this. *01:10:16* And I think making your rival get the the other version exclusive legendary that you don't have is also super cool because in a lot of these other Pokemon games, like, you know. *01:10:29* Depending on which version we're playing, like they won't I think the only one I can really think of is *01:10:41* Well no, they don't even really do that in uh a sapphire and ruby now that I think about it. *01:10:49* I guess they do an emerald, but *01:10:54* Like the the two different version exclusive Pokemon never really end up clashing or crossing over. *01:10:57* Like there are some instances where both appear in the same game. *01:11:02* Like I think that happens in *01:11:04* Sword and Shield. *01:11:06* I think both of the different Sword and Shield brothers. *01:11:07* Yeah, I think I think they're both in the game. *01:11:11* But like I I a lot of times the like if you play Diamond, you're never gonna hear about Balkia or anything. *01:11:14* You never see it, you know. *01:11:22* Yeah. *01:11:23* Like this I think these games are super unique in the sense that like *01:11:24* Cool, we're gonna give you Reshram, we're gonna give your rival Zekrom that. *01:11:28* And then you're gonna have to square off with one another. *01:11:32* And I I just think the idea behind Reshiram and *01:11:34* Uh, Zekrom is really cool and how they've clashed with one another for a long time, and now this is just the latest instance in which they're kind of doing this under the guise of new tra uh under the ownership of new trainers. *01:11:38* Like all those things I think are really, really cool. *01:11:51* Um this game's final hours are pretty great. *01:11:55* Very yes. *01:11:59* I love all of it. *01:12:00* I love how *01:12:01* The champion story weaves into the plasma story going into the end uh built climbing up *01:12:03* You know, Victory Road is a mountain basically in this game. *01:12:11* So you're you're working your way up Victory Road, and then you work your way up through the Elite Four, and then you don't fight the champion. *01:12:14* You actually can't fight the champion until the post-game. *01:12:20* when you beat the Elite Four again. *01:12:23* Well you do fight the champion. *01:12:25* Well and is the champion that wasn't a specific *01:12:26* I'm here to be a champion. *01:12:33* It was a I'm here to rule Yenova and I have to defeat the champion. *01:12:34* Like Ann's goal wasn't *01:12:39* To be the very best like no one ever was, it was to rule, and so he defeated the Which I kind of like. *01:12:41* They put a different sort of spin on the champion thing in this game, which is like that gives it like actual *01:12:45* esteem that I think a lot of the other games don't necessarily. *01:12:52* It's just like, oh yeah, that's the Poke League champion over there. *01:12:55* Uh in this game it's like, no, I'm gonna be the champion, prove I'm the strongest in the whole region, and then I will push my *01:12:58* ideals into the world. *01:13:04* Yes, yes, which is very cool and very super villainy in a lot of ways. *01:13:06* And I like that they introduce Alder earlier in the game so that you kind of become familiar with him over the course of the game. *01:13:11* to where then when you see him lose, you're like, I mean, obviously you don't really know how powerful he is because you never fight him yourself until the postgame. *01:13:18* But like you r you realize you know the other champion is out there, and then you see him lose and then you have the fight. *01:13:26* Like *01:13:32* All of that all of that stuff is is really fantastic. *01:13:33* Again, and himself, I don't know I I think I do agree with you. *01:13:36* He's he's not maybe as good as some other people hyped him up, but like the way he is used within the story, like *01:13:41* his like his like actual arc of you know just being this kid and then being uh controlled by an evil group and then he becomes champ. *01:13:48* Like all that stuff I think the broad beats are are are great largely. *01:13:56* No, I totally agree with that. *01:14:01* It's it's one of the better woven stories that kind of all come together with all these different arcs. *01:14:03* I think *01:14:11* I think Scarlet and Violet actually tries that a little bit while you can independently do each of the three stories by the end when you're going to area zero. *01:14:12* They've all intertwined on some level, all three of them, as you push down deeper and deeper. *01:14:21* I don't think as effectively, but the end game of this is is neat and it leans into that Final Fantasy, like *01:14:26* This feels like a a more classical JRPG story goal-ish that we're pushing here. *01:14:34* And so I think that's uh *01:14:42* fairly neat and cool to see play out. *01:14:44* Like while while keeping things very much the same in some sense, like *01:14:49* Oh, you know, I fight the Elite Four, and then I fight the champion, and then this, that, and the other. *01:14:54* Like there's kind of like two champion battles at the end because you have to fight uh N followed by Getsis and then um *01:14:58* And then the and then there's uh the credits roll. *01:15:07* There's no like, you know, let's log your team so that you go down in the history as the champion. *01:15:10* Like you're not dubbed the champion or anything. *01:15:15* You're just dubbed like *01:15:16* the guy who saved you Nova. *01:15:18* And then you can and then you can go back and fight Alder from there, but only only once you have a much stronger team because his team is like in the in the seven. *01:15:20* It's the I just looked. *01:15:28* It's the upper seven. *01:15:29* So yeah, it's it's a real journey. *01:15:30* And I I think that is neat, and I wish that I had the time to like truly and fully experience that. *01:15:33* But it i it is cool to have seen that play out. *01:15:40* It does lend itself to making this one of the better stories in the franchise. *01:15:43* So I did have *01:15:47* Well, one question for you moving forward, which I know we usually talk about this stuff more at the end, but we've talked a lot about the story. *01:15:49* How do you feel *01:15:55* Moving forward, knowing that there is a sequel here, and some of the initial things that have kind of been introduced here are going to get expanded upon in the next game we play for this season. *01:15:57* I'm curious. *01:16:11* Genu I have no idea like what I it's Team Plasma again, so I'm *01:16:13* I guess Gedis comes back in some way, I assume, or N is doing something different. *01:16:21* But I I find it difficult to believe that I will be fighting N on a regular basis. *01:16:26* Um, unless he's following the rival slash Sharon route of I must be stronger than you, which I I I don't really see. *01:16:31* So I'm curious how Team Plasma comes back and like what the evil push is there. *01:16:39* Uh *01:16:44* I'm interested to see how the world evolves and changes, you know, because they're reusing the map, but maybe towns get bigger or better. *01:16:45* There's growth, there's change. *01:16:53* I think it's two years after. *01:16:54* the main story. *01:16:57* So I'm I'm I'm curious, but uh it does feel like this game kind of wrapped itself up well from a *01:16:58* There's no cliffhanger to, so to speak. *01:17:07* So I'm I'm interested to see where they explore. *01:17:09* Yeah, there's maybe not like a traditional cliffhanger, but there is clearly like stuff with N, you know, where he's like *01:17:13* Kind of setting out to go on his own sort of little. *01:17:21* Yeah. *01:17:25* Yeah, and you see him f kind of fly off on the Zekrom or Reshrom, whichever one there at the end. *01:17:28* So there is some stuff set up with him and like his sort of *01:17:33* Personal journey. *01:17:38* Um, to be honest, I don't remember anything associated with black and white too. *01:17:39* So like this is just as much a thing that I am thinking of in the back of my mind as we move forward as I'm sure you are. *01:17:43* Um *01:17:51* Because I just cannot remember how that game really evolves because yes I know Team Plasma is in it once again. *01:17:51* But I don't I don't really know how they *01:17:57* Expand upon this. *01:17:59* So I I'm looking forward to to playing through these games again. *01:18:00* Well the last thing I want to bring up to you, well, there's two things. *01:18:04* First off, with the gym leaders. *01:18:08* How did you feel about the implementation of them in the larger world in this game and them being a little bit more than just, you know, hi, I'm Joe Dude that stands in this gym and never leaves? *01:18:10* Like all the gym leaders in this game, I think, really kind of are pitched as being larger members of this, of the Unova region as a whole. *01:18:22* You know, they all kind of show up there at the end as a big group to fight off the seven sages. *01:18:31* That is a cool moment I I I think as well. *01:18:37* I I think that it is really *01:18:40* They do a better job with the gym leaders in this game and make them feel like they're actual integral members of s integral members of society rather than just, you know. *01:18:42* Hi, I'm a guy who stands in this in this building and hands out badges to people who come on through. *01:18:52* Like in with every new town you go to, the gym leader kind of introduces themselves beforehand. *01:18:57* And then sometimes there's little missions you have to go do off the beaten path, you know. *01:19:03* I think of like you mentioned Clay before, like his whole thing is like *01:19:07* Oh, there's stuff going on and cold stories. *01:19:10* Yeah. *01:19:14* Like they they which can get a little bit annoying at times, but I do feel like it makes it to where *01:19:15* the gym leaders are more integral in these games in the story and the world building than I feel like in a lot of the other games we've played, which I do appreciate and like quite a bit. *01:19:21* I like I'm looking at the gym leaders now. *01:19:32* I think Clay and Lenora are probably the two that stand out the most from the library and the sheriff. *01:19:35* But like some of them are *01:19:42* I don't think their stories hit quite so hard or do so much in the game, you know, like Burr here with his bugs or Elsa and her electric Pokemon, although that gym was so annoying with the Volt switching. *01:19:45* Skyla Skyla has like a shorter little story. *01:19:57* It's kind of cute, I guess. *01:20:01* The plain lady. *01:20:04* Yeah. *01:20:05* Bryson, I don't you know, he doesn't do too much with his ice. *01:20:05* And then same thing with Draden. *01:20:09* He kind of just *01:20:10* shows up in one little cutscene in the town and then you fight him at the end. *01:20:12* He's like the dragon authority. *01:20:16* They're like, go talk to him about *01:20:18* Reshrem and Zekrom and he you go to him, he's like, Yeah, I don't really know, dude. *01:20:19* Oh, that's interesting that it's different. *01:20:24* The eighth gym is a different leader if you play white. *01:20:26* Tyrus. *01:20:29* Oh, that's cool. *01:20:30* Same Pokemon, but uh different person. *01:20:31* That's cool. *01:20:34* So yeah, I think some were a bit more important to the story overall than *01:20:36* than the others. *01:20:41* I do think the first gym is very interesting as where it is the opposite of whatever starter you pick. *01:20:42* uh forcing you to go get the monkey to the right of town um to beat it. *01:20:49* I think that's a cool concept, uh depending on what you choose. *01:20:56* So like I fought Cress because I chose Tepic. *01:20:59* I don't what starter did you choose? *01:21:02* I also chose Tepic. *01:21:04* Yeah, so we both thought Crest, but you know, if you choose Snivy, then you have to fight Chili or uh That's a really cool thing, I think. *01:21:06* Yeah, that's neat. *01:21:12* Well, one other gimmick that they don't really use, which I I feel like would have been interesting if they would have used it during a gym at some point, is the rotation battles, which are new and unique, I think, to this game. *01:21:18* I don't think that that's a thing that shows back up in *01:21:28* Any other games unless I'm incorrect. *01:21:32* No, I don't recall anything else. *01:21:34* I feel like they should have used that at one point in one of these gyms, but they really *01:21:37* Don't I don't know if you had any particular fondness for that battle style in general in a general sense. *01:21:41* I think it's unique. *01:21:46* I think it's kind of *01:21:47* I think it's fun. *01:21:49* It's never forced on you like a ton, which I kind of think. *01:21:50* I think I only did it twice. *01:21:54* Okay. *01:21:56* Um *01:21:57* It's interesting strategically. *01:21:58* It's you're thinking, okay, this Pokemon is strong against that one over there, but *01:22:00* If I rotate now, are they going to rotate out to be defensive against that? *01:22:05* So there is some like strategic thinking of how can I whittle them down and then just hit 'em with what they're weak against. *01:22:09* Yes. *01:22:16* But *01:22:17* I feel like it made the game the battles feel slower, and this is by far the fastest battle system that we've played with so far. *01:22:18* And I didn't care for being slowed down in that way. *01:22:28* Uh I would much rather have like just had a triple battle where all three of them are out at the same time. *01:22:31* Yeah. *01:22:38* Or or a double battle or something like that. *01:22:38* It's a it's a *01:22:40* Neat concept, but I don't think I would want to have done a ton of them. *01:22:42* And I'm glad I like I said, I think one gym leader would have been fine. *01:22:46* They would have just done it as a one-off. *01:22:51* Good push of ideas, yeah. *01:22:53* And would have leaned into a more unique gym battle. *01:22:55* Like they tried with the first one. *01:22:59* Yes, I I agree with you. *01:23:01* I I think uh I think it's fine for what it is, but I don't also don't believe it's necessarily *01:23:03* Anything that I'm like dying to see pushed to the forefront of these games by any means. *01:23:10* Uh last thing I want to ask you as far as like story and characters go. *01:23:15* Did you have any particular fondness for *01:23:18* Bianca or Sharon, because you get two rivals in these games, and I know you talked about how you're fighting rivals way too much between those two, and then N on top of that, who's kind of your real sort of rival throughout the game *01:23:20* Um, there's three rivals this time around. *01:23:34* What'd you think about the other two? *01:23:37* I like Bianca's story, like the concept of I'm leaving home and figuring out what I want to do with my life. *01:23:40* Sharon, I think, is far too serious. *01:23:46* He's like, my purpose in life is to become stronger, and if I don't have that, I have no reason to live. *01:23:49* Uh I think he's way too melodramatic. *01:23:56* Um I do like how Alder comes in and kind of recontextualizes why he feels that way and why he wants that though. *01:23:59* Like, okay, cool, let's say you do become champion, then what? *01:24:06* Like *01:24:09* Yeah. *01:24:10* What are you gonna do from that point? *01:24:11* His arc is is cool. *01:24:12* I just think his delivery and like writing as a character is *01:24:15* melodramatic heavy hands. *01:24:19* Yeah, it's a bit it's a bit heavy. *01:24:21* Yes. *01:24:24* But I did have a major problem with especially basically the first I don't know *01:24:24* I don't know, up to six gyms. *01:24:29* Basically, kind of right before the plasma stuff really it's cooking with the dragons and the stones and stuff. *01:24:30* Basically, every time you leave town, you'll fight at least one or two of these people. *01:24:35* Um as soon as you leave town and sometimes right before you get to a town, uh you are just constantly crossing invisible lines, triggering events, Pokemon trainers are showing up and going *01:24:41* Well, I have the badge and you have the badge, so now we must fight to see who's stronger. *01:24:53* Oh, why am I so weak? *01:24:57* Oh, I can't believe that you two just fought. *01:24:59* Let me fight you so I can figure out what I want to do with my life *01:25:01* And it's just like over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. *01:25:05* And I was it's it makes the game flow choppy. *01:25:10* It is sometimes they don't even give you an opportunity to heal between them or heal you for the fight. *01:25:14* Uh it is it's too much. *01:25:21* Three rivals is too much. *01:25:23* And we need I wrote down I'm gonna have an aneurysm if there's a one more just let's battle moment. *01:25:25* It is just it's obnoxious. *01:25:31* And uh I besides that, I don't really care for them. *01:25:34* Uh *01:25:37* They were more annoying, I think, than helpful to my journey. *01:25:38* I do think that they have far better arcs than a lot of the other *01:25:43* Pokemon rivals that we have seen. *01:25:48* Again, I think back to most recently, you know my X and Y with all the different I I wanna I want my Pokemon to to know how to dance and stuff like that. *01:25:50* It's like what are we doing here? *01:26:01* Like, they have much better arcs than some of the latest rivals in the series that I think we've seen. *01:26:03* But yeah, they don't like to be honest, like coming into these games, I didn't really remember anything about Bianca or Sharon. *01:26:10* uh beforehand. *01:26:17* So I think that kind of says a lot right there. *01:26:19* Yeah. *01:26:22* But yeah, I I I like I said, moving forward, it it's curious. *01:26:23* It's interesting because a lot of the times these discussions are one-offs, but *01:26:27* I'm curious to see how we come back to some of these points when it comes to the story and the characters. *01:26:31* I'm more interested in where Bianca is in black and white too than Sharon. *01:26:38* Or Sharin, or however you say it, because she actually was like trying to figure things out and like what she wanted to do with her life. *01:26:43* And Sharon was just like, I want to be stronger. *01:26:51* So I think Bianca is with has the more interesting arc. *01:26:53* I don't think she really resolves it by the end of this game, which makes me more interested in what she's up to in in the sequels. *01:26:56* Yeah. *01:27:03* We've talked a lot naturally, I think, about a lot of the different gameplay elements in these games, you know, trip uh rotation battles and things like that, um, the battling speed. *01:27:04* Um, which is greatly increased, which I appreciate and like quite quite a lot. *01:27:15* Um I I I mentioned this kind of offhand. *01:27:21* I wanted to ask you, like *01:27:24* Just about HMs in particular and how you feel about how they're implemented this time around. *01:27:25* Did you like that you don't really have to ever give your Pokemon HMs unless you are sick *01:27:30* Absolutely trying to explore more or something. *01:27:37* And I don't know, I I want to mention this too. *01:27:39* I don't know if you've looked this up, but the post-game gives you like three or four more HMs. *01:27:41* Like Waterfall, I think, is in the game. *01:27:46* Dive, I think is also in the game. *01:27:48* Okay. *01:27:51* I didn't look those up, but it is it's great that they're not necessary like uh a habit I've picked up is looking up before Victory Road, like what HMs do I need to get through Victory Road? *01:27:52* And then and this time I was like, you don't need any of them. *01:28:03* Strength and surf will make it a little easier, like you can take shortcuts and make shortcuts, but you don't need them. *01:28:06* I was like, ah, this is what I hear I'm here for. *01:28:12* Because we're still in the era of you have to go to the the move deleter to forget an HM. *01:28:15* And if if that wasn't the case, if I could just swap, you know, swap it out with the TM that I was replacing before, like then that's not really a rub, it's just annoying. *01:28:21* So I'm glad that HMs basically aren't necessary. *01:28:31* This is the like we're one step closer to just being able to fly, dive, and surf whenever and wherever and however. *01:28:34* And that's great. *01:28:43* Uh actually X and Y feels like a regression in some ways. *01:28:44* Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. *01:28:49* Like in some ways, like going to X and Yes. *01:28:50* We were close to the right version of this. *01:28:52* Yes, like I I honestly I could I forgot that they dropped a lot of the HM requirements in this game. *01:28:55* So like even when I got to Victory Road and stuff too, I'm like at what point is this game gonna make me learn *01:29:00* strength to advance here and the answer was never um which I loved yeah because I grew that it just it allows you to it allows you to do what you want with your have more control over your *01:29:06* Pokemon's movesets and stuff like that. *01:29:17* And and not only that, but like all the TMs not being single use. *01:29:19* I think this is the first game in the series which in where that's not a thing. *01:29:22* Obviously that's become more common sense. *01:29:26* It's hard again, these things are hard to remember because we've *01:29:28* played this the series in so out of order. *01:29:32* So it's hard to know. *01:29:34* It all blends at a certain point, yes. *01:29:36* But there were a lot of like quality of life improvements with black and white that I feel like are worth *01:29:38* calling out and pointing to because they finally addressed so many of these things that I th that fans had complained about at the time. *01:29:45* Was there anything else like gameplay-wise that really stuck out to you? *01:29:52* Again, we kind of mentioned as well. *01:29:55* The other big thing to me is just like the *01:29:57* Despite having little animations and stuff like that, I think is cool when it comes to the battles. *01:30:00* Other than that, I there's *01:30:05* Um nothing else that really jumps to mind. *01:30:07* I don't know. *01:30:10* Some of the oh, I guess the musicals is one note you have down here. *01:30:10* Something else kind of off the beaten path. *01:30:14* I *01:30:16* I put that down because I didn't do a single one of them. *01:30:18* I'm glad they didn't force you to do it. *01:30:21* But I think force you to kind of become aware that it's in the game. *01:30:23* Yes. *01:30:27* But they don't very briefly do it. *01:30:27* They expose you to it, but they don't force you to do it, yes, which is I l I I like that too. *01:30:30* I think this is another problem with being so removed from its launch, though. *01:30:35* where there are just mechanics and ideas that are un like uh not *01:30:40* Like you're not gonna do it, right? *01:30:48* With these days. *01:30:51* I think of the Sea Gear a lot. *01:30:52* They probably were doing a lot of ideas with the Pokywalker and Infrared and *01:30:54* Yes. *01:30:58* But now there's no re like I kept that stuff off because *01:31:03* I'm not playing like no one else is playing and I'm not walking around and connecting to things and people. *01:31:08* I'm not tracking my steps *01:31:13* all this stuff is just lost mechanics to time because either just the community is not here for this game. *01:31:16* It's w you know, it keeps moving on and on. *01:31:24* So I think m you know, musicals is just the gimmick of this game and *01:31:27* Um I didn't touch it at all. *01:31:30* It sounds pretty silly, but so were beauty pageants in uh in Diamond and Pearl. *01:31:32* So Well as far as the Sea Gear stuff goes, like they did finally kind of *01:31:37* Make it far, far easier with this game. *01:31:42* I can't remember what Heart Gold and Soul Silver does. *01:31:44* Cause I think they have the infrared stuff too. *01:31:49* Yes, but I know it's to connect with the poker walker. *01:31:52* Yes. *01:31:55* That's right, yes. *01:31:55* I know with these games though, like with uh th via the sea gear, they they make it *01:31:56* far easier to battle and far easier to trade than ever before. *01:32:01* I mean you can still go to Poke Centers and do stuff kind of in the conventional method, but they they really just cause I I traded between my games a couple times. *01:32:05* And all you have to do is slap this the the infrared thing on the Se Gear section, and it's like, okay, we're gonna look for another connection here. *01:32:14* And then you find it and then you're immediately launched into trading, which I think is great. *01:32:21* It's so much more streamlined. *01:32:25* Again *01:32:27* More quality of life features i in in these games. *01:32:28* Things that things that became much more common later on in this series. *01:32:31* Um *01:32:35* I just think a lot of the things that fans wanted were really present in this game with the all all of these features that we've mentioned in the past few moments combined with the *01:32:36* fully new Pokedex. *01:32:46* Um these games were really big steps forward, I think, for the series in a lot of ways, and took some important strides and kind of determined where the series would go moving forward. *01:32:48* Which, yeah, I mean in some ways I feel like they've uh run back some things from this era that I wish would kind of make a comeback, but you know, Pokemon's also in a *01:33:01* Decent enough place now. *01:33:12* We've talked about the postgame and we we neither of us really did that. *01:33:14* I think the only other thing, unless I'm wrong, the big thing we haven't talked about yet is the music. *01:33:17* And I think *01:33:23* This is absolutely one of the best Pokemon soundtracks. *01:33:27* Like by far. *01:33:32* This is up there to me with the original. *01:33:33* I mean, I have a soft spot for Ruby and Sapphire and Emerald for the Hoenn era, but I I think this is like maybe like top three favorite Pokemon soundtrack for me. *01:33:39* There are so many songs in this that I like *01:33:48* heard as well that I was shocked that we're in this game that I could not remember were part of this game. *01:33:50* Some of that is just because I listened to random, you know, like *01:33:56* Nintendo music mixes on YouTube or whatever while I'm wa while I'm working. *01:34:00* And so I'll hear some of these songs, I'm like, oh, that's a good track. *01:34:05* And then I play through this game, I'm like, oh dang, that that came from Pokemon Black and White. *01:34:08* I totally forgot about that. *01:34:12* Um *01:34:14* I think this soundtrack overall has a lot of great mellow tunes. *01:34:15* I think some of the a lot of s it has some groovier songs too, like uh *01:34:20* What was the one you sent me? *01:34:25* Was it Drift Veil, which is the one that you're walking into Driftvale, yeah. *01:34:26* You're walking into Drift Veil. *01:34:30* There's a lot of like moody songs combined with genuine bops *01:34:32* Um, I know you hate the rival battle theme because you feel like it's too up-tempo. *01:34:36* That's not my favorite either. *01:34:40* It's too bouncy and jubilant. *01:34:42* Like it it it makes them feel like clowns. *01:34:45* Especially I think Bianca up front. *01:34:49* Like it's just it almost makes it feel like a joke. *01:34:51* And that's the first battle music you hear in the game, and I was like, oh no, this is not a good sign. *01:34:54* Uh the regular trainer battle is a much better theme. *01:34:59* The plasma grunt battle theme is a bang. *01:35:03* Yes. *01:35:08* One of the better team rival themes in the whole series, I love the Team Plasma theme. *01:35:09* I love ENS. *01:35:16* Ends battle theme, I think, is one of the best. *01:35:17* I don't know how you feel about it, especially the final version of it when it gets in like the church organ and that stuff. *01:35:19* The final version is going hard. *01:35:26* The final version's really good *01:35:28* But I the rest I it's it's good, but I wasn't in love with it. *01:35:30* Like I I there are other, I think, rival or you know final fight themes that are *01:35:35* better. *01:35:41* I've I think of Cynthia, but there's that initial bias there. *01:35:41* I think a lot of the scarlet and violet stuff that you get to do with some of the final fights in that game. *01:35:45* That I just think the elite four the elite four battle scene or fights in this game, I think, or or fight songs are also really good in this game. *01:35:50* Like I like pretty much *01:35:57* I I the most of the soundtrack I think is really, really phenomenal. *01:36:01* I do agree there are some uh uh draw some some negative No soundtrack is great across the board, though. *01:36:05* I think that's what I told you before when we were *01:36:11* uh talking about this because we did talk about this a little bit before we began recording and uh I don't think any of the Pokemon soundtracks are necessarily perfect but this one is higher up on my personal list. *01:36:13* Mm-hmm *01:36:26* For sure. *01:36:27* Like they they popped off with this one. *01:36:28* I uh I wrote down the Celestial Tower. *01:36:30* I I like that song a lot. *01:36:34* That was really good. *01:36:35* Yes. *01:36:36* But I think there this game commits, I think, a really big musical sin. *01:36:38* And that is that Gaddis has a absolutely lame battle thing. *01:36:44* Oh yes. *01:36:49* I think it actually kills the mood of that whole build-up. *01:36:50* Like you we were talking about how great this final build-up is. *01:36:54* You climb the castle, you battle end with these dragons. *01:36:58* Gaddis comes in and reveals uh haha, I've done I am the puppet master. *01:37:01* And then his music is just like it was not the epic final battle that I was uh hoping to hear. *01:37:06* Um yes. *01:37:14* And I think some Pokemon fans are crazy. *01:37:15* I because I finally read some comments on like the YouTube section now, because I at least had context *01:37:17* And uh one person wrote, This is literally the one-winged angel of Pokemon. *01:37:22* Geddis is literally the embodiment of fear, has a theme song that involves chanting his name, a missing body part, and *01:37:27* He's the Pokemon equivalent of Sephiroth. *01:37:34* And I was like, I don't know what you're on, dude, but this was a pretty lame song. *01:37:37* Yeah, it's very percussion heavy, a lot of booming drums and stuff like that, but there's no real It's like not this up tempo battle at all. *01:37:43* I didn't feel any sort of excitement. *01:37:52* I didn't feel the dread or fear that people are talking about, you know. *01:37:55* I didn't know that. *01:37:59* I do like the chanting. *01:37:59* I do like the chanting with the uh like the *01:38:01* the choir or whatever, the evil sounding choir that like that's cool. *01:38:06* But largely, yes, I do, I do agree with you. *01:38:12* There's no real sort of *01:38:15* There needs to be all good Pokemon fight themes I feel like have like an up tempo nature to them. *01:38:17* Um and there's like a sort of hype behind it and that's really not present with with that. *01:38:23* So yes, in that sense it is *01:38:28* Kind of disappointing since it's the final fight of the game. *01:38:30* The one thing I will one last thing I will say, again this is kind of *01:38:34* runs in parallel to a lot of the other things we've been talking about with this game, especially when it comes to the art and stuff. *01:38:38* But I miss just these like again with the jump to the 3DS, the the sound, the sound quality changes, you know, and I'm not saying *01:38:43* future Pokemon soundtracks have been bad by any means, but this kind of like these sort of more chiptune-y era of Pokemon games here and I *01:38:50* uh i again it started to kind of change from here on out once we got to the 3ds and onward and i miss kind of the *01:38:59* almost like crunchiness to some of these songs from this era. *01:39:10* Uh I don't know. *01:39:16* A lot of this is just very much, you know *01:39:17* nostalgia and I I realize we're not gonna stay in this time period forever because technology will change and things will advance and move forward. *01:39:19* But it is there is like a certain like *01:39:27* comfort and appreciation that I do have coming back to these games and hearing these old style soundtracks like what we used to have on the DS and further back, you know, with the Game Boy when we played Fire Red and Leaf Green. *01:39:30* I miss that stuff, but *01:39:42* A lot of that's obviously just influenced and shaped by the fact that this is how we grew up. *01:39:43* Um but there were more limitations back then, and I always appreciated and enjoyed seeing *01:39:48* what developers and composers did within those hardware limitations back in the day. *01:39:54* I think it prompted more creativity at times compared to some of what we see nowadays. *01:40:01* They pushed the DS hard and it paid off. *01:40:06* So they they absolutely did. *01:40:09* Um we talked about this before, just moving forward into black and white too. *01:40:11* It'll be interesting to see our discussion with those games because obviously we've *01:40:14* We've done sequel episodes before in past seasons about different series with that we've covered, but this will be the first time we've ever done it in the context of Pokemon. *01:40:18* So I'm very much looking forward to seeing *01:40:27* what our discussion looks like in the next episode. *01:40:30* And we maybe we won't have as much to say. *01:40:33* Maybe we'll have a ton more to say. *01:40:36* Um so I'm excited about that *01:40:38* Until then though, Max, as always, final question, what do you think this games, or these both of these games, black and white, what do you think their legacy is? *01:40:40* It's the end of the DS era. *01:40:51* And it's one of the better stories in Pokemon. *01:40:54* I think those are the two things that kind of really have stuck with this game throughout the decade. *01:40:58* Uh that's what people talk about, I think, the most. *01:41:03* And that's I can see that now and I appreciate it in in a way that I couldn't before. *01:41:06* So and uh the other thing is is they have a sequel. *01:41:14* And I I think that'll be more relevant when we talk about black and white too, specifically. *01:41:17* But there's more to this generation than *01:41:23* than we thought previously. *01:41:26* And or you know, basically up until Black and White 2 were announced, the concept of a sequel was not really a thing for Pokemon. *01:41:28* It was always there's a third game. *01:41:36* you know, that kind of refines everything and does more. *01:41:38* And this was like, no, we're making a sequel. *01:41:41* And we really haven't gotten that necessarily until *01:41:43* You could never really had it again in general. *01:41:48* I mean Ultra the Ultra Games Sort of Ultra Sun and Moon aren't sequels, they're *01:41:51* Necessarily it's the I guess that's the closest though. *01:41:57* Yeah. *01:42:01* Uh um so yeah, it's an interesting way. *01:42:02* And also these are the last 2D games *01:42:06* Yes. *01:42:09* And I uh 2D in the the battling. *01:42:10* I mean the the map is, you know, overhead 2D, 3D, whatever. *01:42:13* X and Y doesn't really j make a ton of *01:42:17* strides in terms of like the the maneuvering around its world, getting around its world. *01:42:22* It's in 3D and in quotes, but it's still largely *01:42:28* you know, isometric viewpoint moving around and stuff like that. *01:42:32* So quite similar in that regard. *01:42:35* Um I mean yeah, I mean you said what I was going to say is like this these games *01:42:37* I mean the legacy currently is like these are the next games. *01:42:43* I mean I mean maybe not legacy, but these games haven't been remade yet, you know? *01:42:46* So like I think that's a thing that people keep kind of in their heads now. *01:42:51* But beyond that, yes, like these are the *01:42:54* This is a Pokemon duology here, which is quite unique, and it's why we're doing both of these games as part of our season. *01:42:56* Like we we talked at the start of the season about how *01:43:04* Black and White and Black and White 2 were the only games that we were going to do um within the same region across the whole season just because we felt like it was important to play both of those. *01:43:08* And then all other instances we were going to play, you know, the remakes or the expanded versions of the games that are that existed and we're just gonna choose one and go from there. *01:43:17* Um *01:43:27* So yes, the fact that these games have a sequel, I think, is a key part. *01:43:28* Um a lot of what you mentioned before, you know, final games on DS, yes, like if these are *01:43:32* The Pokemon games that have uh more of a story focus or stand out as having a larger *01:43:40* A more memorable story, I would say. *01:43:47* Like again, I can't really recall a lot of the other stories from some of these other games, at least not the not anything other than the broad beats, but just *01:43:49* This game has a more central story push where all the different story elements kind of converge into a single moment at the end of the game, which we talked about. *01:43:58* I think that's huge, and they've really never done anything like that again in the series, and I I just think it's *01:44:06* This is this is definitely one of the most unique Pokemon games for a variety of different reasons. *01:44:13* And I'm curious, again, when we come back with our final episode of the season here with the sequels, if we will still feel like there is *01:44:19* unique stuff implemented in those games if they are just kind of a rehash under the guise of sequels, you know, like because *01:44:26* This was from the era where they would release expanded versions of these games with emerald and platinum a year or so after the the *01:44:35* standard versions released, so are we going to feel like that it that it is nothing more than, you know, just expanded versions, or are we going to feel like those are *01:44:44* wholly different games. *01:44:52* And yeah, I'm looking forward to our discussion next time around to close out the season with those games. *01:44:54* Yeah, it's gonna be fun. *01:44:59* I'm looking forward to it. *01:45:00* I'll probably actually start the game here in in the next day or so. *01:45:01* So I'm eager to *01:45:04* uh to play that and we m we probably will be playing together. *01:45:05* I gotta offload all of the shiny Pokemon from the version of Black 2 that that I that I bought at a local shop *01:45:09* Because it was somebody's old copy that had 350 hours logged on it and it has all kinds of legendary and shiny Pokemon that seemed to have been a tabaclick. *01:45:16* They seem to have been obtained legitimately. *01:45:26* Like if I if I could tell it was just like a hacked or like cheated version of the game where they got all this stuff, I wouldn't really care. *01:45:28* But the fact that I'm pretty sure this has all legitimately been acquired makes me want to like *01:45:35* Salvage or save this for for the sake of the person who once played this game. *01:45:41* Yeah. *01:45:46* So I'll have to do that. *01:45:47* Lots of trading is in *01:45:49* in store in my future here, but after that's done, then then we'll jump into black too. *01:45:51* Godspeed, sir. *01:45:57* But with that, I think that wraps it up for our discussion on Pokemon Black. *01:45:59* Thank you so much for listening. *01:46:04* Uh if you'd like to check out more, you can go over to chapterselect. *01:46:05* com. *01:46:10* You can check out Super Chapter Select for longer episodes, exclusive content. *01:46:10* and all that jazz for just two and a half dollars a month or twenty dollars a year will get you that. *01:46:15* You can go to chapter select. *01:46:20* com and check that out. *01:46:21* Like Logan said, we're getting ready to wrap up season six here, but we've uh *01:46:23* We've got season seven and eight down the in the sites with Metroid Prime and Castlevania. *01:46:27* So there's lots and lots going on forward here with Chapter Select. *01:46:33* So we hope that you'll join us along the way. *01:46:36* You can follow the show online at chapter select, and uh you can find Logan over at comicbook. *01:46:39* com and follow him on Twitter at Moreman12. *01:46:46* You can find my writing over at maxfrequency. *01:46:49* net, and I'm *01:46:52* On Twitter as Max Roberts143, but I just I just post links to what I've written. *01:46:53* So uh maxfrequency. *01:46:57* net is place to go for that stuff. *01:46:59* But until next time, thank you all so much for listening and audios. *01:47:02* Chapter Select is a max frequency production. *01:47:07* Chapter Select is supported by you. *01:47:11* You can gain access to longer episodes and bonus content by going to chapterselect. *01:47:13* com forward slash join. *01:47:18* This episode was research, produced, and edited by me, Max Roberts. *01:47:20* Season six is hosted by Logan Moore and myself. *01:47:24* Season six is all about Pokemon. *01:47:28* For more on the season, go to chapterselect. *01:47:30* com forward slash season six. *01:47:32* You can follow the show at Chapter Select and check out previous seasons at chapterselect. *01:47:35* com. *01:47:40*