# Chapter Select, [[S7E1 - Metroid Prime]] Transcript This transcription was completed on October 1, 2025 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v2 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- **Max Roberts**: Hello, everybody, and welcome to Chapter Select, a seasonal retrospective podcast where we bounce back and forth between a series exploring its evolution, design, and legacy. *00:00-00:08* **Max Roberts**: For this season, we are covering the Metroid Prime franchise. *00:08-00:11* **Max Roberts**: My name is Max Roberts, and I am joined, as always, *00:12-00:14* **Max Roberts**: By Logan Moore. *00:14-00:15* **Max Roberts**: Hi, Logan. *00:15-00:16* **Logan Moore**: Happy 2024, Max. *00:16-00:18* **Logan Moore**: It's time to play every Metroidvania game in the world. *00:18-00:23* **Max Roberts**: Wh well, not every Metroidvania game. *00:22-00:25* **Max Roberts**: That would be somewhere. *00:25-00:28* **Logan Moore**: Pretty close to some deg to some degree. *00:26-00:30* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, every including including the next episode this season, The Hot Federation Force. *00:29-00:39* **Logan Moore**: Every namesake Metroidvania, sort of. *00:31-00:34* **Logan Moore**: Oh yeah. *00:39-00:40* **Max Roberts**: So, oh my goodness gracious. *00:39-00:42* **Logan Moore**: I'm sure that's the whole reason why we did this year of *00:40-00:46* **Logan Moore**: Metroidvania was to play Federation Force and nothing else. *00:44-00:48* **Logan Moore**: Is that game even a Metroidvania? *00:48-00:50* **Logan Moore**: This is my question. *00:50-00:51* **Logan Moore**: I know nothing about Federation Force, and we have not played the game yet at the time. *00:51-00:55* **Max Roberts**: It's like a co-op it's a co-op shooter, I think. *00:53-00:57* **Logan Moore**: So is it just like a linear like corridor shooter? *00:57-01:00* **Logan Moore**: Or is it a Metroidvadia game? *01:00-01:02* **Max Roberts**: I think it's level based. *01:01-01:02* **Max Roberts**: I don't know. *01:03-01:04* **Max Roberts**: I know there's like a a soccer mini game equivalent. *01:05-01:08* **Logan Moore**: Why are we playing this? *01:05-01:07* **Logan Moore**: I know that because I've seen the demo for that at the Nintendo Treehouse or whatever it was back in the day. *01:08-01:16* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it so bad. *01:15-01:24* **Logan Moore**: When people were raging at Nintendo for making that game, that game is like $90 complete in box now, which is crazy. *01:16-01:23* **Logan Moore**: Which is why when I found a loose copy for 25, I was like, I gotta jump on it. *01:24-01:28* **Max Roberts**: It's such *01:24-01:27* **Logan Moore**: So did you own that game already? *01:29-01:31* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it's mm mm. *01:29-01:32* **Logan Moore**: We're talking about Federation Force the whole time now. *01:32-01:34* **Max Roberts**: No. *01:32-01:32* **Max Roberts**: I don't I did not own Federation *01:34-01:38* **Max Roberts**: Force beforehand, so I'm out here in the lurch. *01:37-01:39* **Max Roberts**: It's yeah, it's pretty this is pretty nutty. *01:39-01:42* **Max Roberts**: I mean, that and Prime Pinball, but for *01:42-01:47* **Max Roberts**: We're really here to talk about Metroid Prime, which kicked off the entire Prime sub-series in the Metroid franchise. *01:45-01:52* **Logan Moore**: And this is what we're talking about here today. *01:53-01:55* **Logan Moore**: Episode one is all about Metroid Prime. *01:55-01:57* **Logan Moore**: Max, let's go through the rundown here for this game. *01:57-02:00* **Logan Moore**: Metroid Prime was developed by Retro Studios. *02:01-02:03* **Logan Moore**: It originally released on the Nintendo GameCube on November 18th, 2002. *02:03-02:09* **Logan Moore**: Max and I played the remastered version, which released on Nintendo Switch earlier, well, I guess this year, the year we're recording this, to give you a little peek behind the curtain. *02:09-02:19* **Max Roberts**: La last year. *02:17-02:19* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, last year it released on February 8th, 2023. *02:20-02:24* **Logan Moore**: The game director was Mark Pacini. *02:24-02:26* **Logan Moore**: The producers were Shigeru Miyamoto, Kensuke Tanabe. *02:26-02:31* **Logan Moore**: Kenji Mika, Miki, Akira Otani, and Michael Mann. *02:31-02:35* **Logan Moore**: Michael Mann, isn't that a famous actor or something? *02:35-02:38* **Logan Moore**: Or am I thinking of somebody? *02:38-02:40* **Max Roberts**: Maybe, perhaps. *02:39-02:40* **Max Roberts**: I don't know. *02:40-02:41* **Logan Moore**: And then the music was done by Kenji Yamamoto and Koichi Kiyuma. *02:41-02:46* **Logan Moore**: The metacritic score for this game. *02:46-02:48* **Logan Moore**: On GameCube was a staggering 97 out of 100. *02:48-02:52* **Logan Moore**: I believe this is the highest rated GameCube game in history. *02:52-02:57* **Logan Moore**: You could look that up pretty quickly here, but I'm like. *02:58-03:00* **Logan Moore**: 95% certain that's the case. *03:01-03:03* **Logan Moore**: I don't know what else would be higher. *03:03-03:05* **Logan Moore**: The 97 is absurd. *03:05-03:06* **Logan Moore**: The Switch Remaster here had a 94 out of 100 as well. *03:06-03:09* **Logan Moore**: So this game is still. *03:10-03:11* **Logan Moore**: One of the most acclaimed Nintendo games ever. *03:12-03:14* **Logan Moore**: Actually, that's kind of hard to say because I feel like all Mario and all Zelda games are very, very critically acclaimed. *03:15-03:22* **Logan Moore**: Zelda particularly. *03:22-03:24* **Max Roberts**: It it is the highest rating GameCube. *03:23-03:26* **Logan Moore**: What else is up there on that list? *03:26-03:29* **Max Roberts**: So tied for second is one the legend of Zelda Twilight Princess. *03:30-03:36* **Max Roberts**: one The Legend of Zelda Wind Waker, and one Resident Evil 4. *03:36-03:41* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *03:36-03:36* **Max Roberts**: So, and then fifth is the Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition Collection. *03:42-03:48* **Max Roberts**: Madden two thousand four or two thousand three. *03:49-03:53* **Max Roberts**: Beautiful Joe is number seven. *03:54-03:55* **Max Roberts**: Soul Calibur is number eight. *03:56-03:58* **Logan Moore**: Silk Haber, I forgot about would be really high. *03:58-04:00* **Max Roberts**: Smash is Smash is nine and uh Sunshine is ten. *03:58-04:02* **Max Roberts**: So. *04:02-04:03* **Max Roberts**: Metroid Prime 2 echoes is 12, so that's kind of where the GameCube go. *04:04-04:12* **Logan Moore**: So, this is number one. *04:08-04:09* **Logan Moore**: Um, and I know *04:09-04:13* **Logan Moore**: Well, I was going to say the Switch version 2, it probably isn't anymore, but I know for again, this is weird because we're recording in *04:12-04:21* **Logan Moore**: 2023 year. *04:19-04:21* **Logan Moore**: But I know the Switch version was like the highest rated game of the year, I think, up until Baldur's Gate 3 releasing. *04:21-04:28* **Max Roberts**: Really Okay. *04:28-04:36* **Logan Moore**: Which is like eight or nine months into the year. *04:28-04:30* **Logan Moore**: This was the highest rated game. *04:30-04:31* **Logan Moore**: Or maybe, or I'm sorry, until Zelda released. *04:31-04:35* **Logan Moore**: And then, because I forgot Zelda came out in 2023 as well. *04:36-04:39* **Logan Moore**: So, Tears of the Kingdom, Baldur's Gate. *04:39-04:41* **Max Roberts**: But we both haven't played Tears of the Kingdom *04:40-04:47* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, which is crazy. *04:43-04:45* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it was it's number three currently as of this recording behind Baldur's Gate and Zelda, which are both tied at ninety six. *04:45-04:52* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, yeah. *04:49-04:53* **Max Roberts**: So I guess Zelda maybe has more reviews, and that's why it's ahead. *04:52-04:56* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, um, *04:56-05:05* **Max Roberts**: The Witcher 3 is also on this list, so that just tells me where 2023 is at of this as of this recording. *04:58-05:05* **Logan Moore**: It's always weird when remasters or new ports or of things come out. *05:04-05:08* **Max Roberts**: I remember The Last of Us when that happened on PS4. *05:07-05:10* **Max Roberts**: They were like, Can it be Game of the Year two years in a row? *05:10-05:12* **Max Roberts**: I was like, That's a little stupid *05:13-05:19* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *05:14-05:15* **Logan Moore**: So, how do you want to start here with this first episode talking about this game? *05:15-05:20* **Logan Moore**: Because obviously, this is going to set things up. *05:20-05:23* **Logan Moore**: This, in a lot of ways, I am viewing this max as your season. *05:23-05:27* **Logan Moore**: You are the Metroid expert. *05:27-05:29* **Logan Moore**: Once again, we're kind of going back to how we were with our Fast and Furious season where. *05:29-05:33* **Logan Moore**: I am the Metroid novice here. *05:33-05:35* **Logan Moore**: I have not played literally any of these games that we are going to play throughout. *05:35-05:39* **Logan Moore**: Actually, that's a lie. *05:39-05:39* **Logan Moore**: I've played Metroid Prime 3, which is the one I know people say is the worst one. *05:40-05:45* **Max Roberts**: Corruption, yeah. *05:42-05:43* **Logan Moore**: So I have played Metroid Prime 3, but I've not played anything else this season. *05:46-05:50* **Logan Moore**: So I am not a seasoned veteran of Metroid. *05:50-05:54* **Logan Moore**: Um, and I guess just to continue talking here, I rented Metroid Prime 1 here from Blockbuster once, maybe when I was a kid, and I don't think I got even through that opening area with Ridley, and then you run away. *05:54-06:06* **Logan Moore**: I don't even think I got through that. *06:06-06:07* **Max Roberts**: You didn't get off the s the f Space Friggin Orphan the first ten minutes? *06:07-06:12* **Logan Moore**: I don't think so. *06:09-06:12* **Logan Moore**: I dabbled with it and then I was like, eh, and then I just put it down and then probably didn't play it. *06:12-06:17* **Logan Moore**: And then my parents were like, we got to take it back to the store. *06:17-06:19* **Max Roberts**: What a what a waste of a rental okay. *06:19-06:24* **Logan Moore**: So that's my history with this game. *06:19-06:22* **Logan Moore**: That's my history with this game. *06:22-06:23* **Logan Moore**: Ritzels used to be like two or three bucks. *06:24-06:25* **Logan Moore**: It was kind of just like it's *06:26-06:32* **Max Roberts**: I mean, that's fair. *06:26-06:27* **Max Roberts**: But you'd only get one at a time. *06:27-06:29* **Max Roberts**: It's back in the day, so. *06:29-06:31* **Logan Moore**: You could only get one at a time, really? *06:31-06:32* **Logan Moore**: Was that a rule? *06:33-06:33* **Logan Moore**: Maybe that was a thing, because I feel like Blockbuster may have made a big promotion at some point that is like, now you can get five things at a time, or something like that. *06:34-06:41* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I don't really any yeah *06:41-06:50* **Logan Moore**: I don't know. *06:42-06:42* **Logan Moore**: I can't remember. *06:42-06:44* **Logan Moore**: I feel like I will say, I feel like it's against their business model, though, for them to limit you to things you could rent. *06:44-06:51* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, that's probably not the case. *06:51-06:52* **Max Roberts**: It's probably more my parents saying you can only rent one game. *06:52-06:57* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *06:56-06:57* **Max Roberts**: Makes sense too, 'cause like *06:57-07:02* **Logan Moore**: Because what are you going to get up to the counter and be like, Hi, I would like to rent ten games at a time? *06:57-07:01* **Max Roberts**: Send video games and return them to Yeah, they'll take it. *07:01-07:10* **Logan Moore**: Where are they going to be like, Sorry, put those back on the shelf? *07:01-07:05* **Logan Moore**: I mean, they're going to take your money regardless. *07:06-07:09* **Max Roberts**: And they'll hope you don't return them on time so they can charge you late fees. *07:10-07:13* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, exactly. *07:13-07:14* **Max Roberts**: Yeah prime well *07:14-07:24* **Logan Moore**: So, I mean, that's my history with this, and that's kind of my history at large with. *07:14-07:19* **Logan Moore**: Metroid We did *07:19-07:32* **Max Roberts**: One thing that we share with Metroid is we both played Super Metroid on our first podcast together for um *07:22-07:33* **Max Roberts**: I don't even remember what we called that section, but we pl well, the podcast was Millennial Gaming Seek, but I don't remember playing a report. *07:31-07:39* **Logan Moore**: Millennial Gaming Speak, and it was for play and report. *07:33-07:37* **Logan Moore**: Play and report. *07:38-07:39* **Max Roberts**: And one of the games that we did was Super Metroid, and I didn't beat it at the time. *07:40-07:45* **Max Roberts**: Um and then another one, season eight for us, Castlevania, we both did Symphony the Night and I only got, I think, up to I s got to the Inverted Castle and fought *07:45-07:57* **Max Roberts**: Shaft up there, so I didn't fully beat the game. *07:56-07:58* **Max Roberts**: So that was another thing. *07:58-07:59* **Max Roberts**: I've since done so for both games. *07:59-08:02* **Max Roberts**: But yeah, so we super metroid and then you've played you haven't played dread yet *08:04-08:15* **Logan Moore**: I have not played Dread. *08:11-08:12* **Logan Moore**: I've played Samus Returns, strangely. *08:12-08:16* **Max Roberts**: On the 3DS, okay. *08:14-08:16* **Logan Moore**: And I think that's it. *08:16-08:17* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, okay, yeah. *08:16-08:20* **Logan Moore**: I think that's it, though. *08:17-08:18* **Logan Moore**: Because I've never played Original or the Game Boy ones. *08:19-08:24* **Max Roberts**: There's only one well Game Boy Advance, yes. *08:24-08:26* **Logan Moore**: And then yeah, the Game Boy Advance games. *08:25-08:28* **Max Roberts**: I was gonna say there's only one on game there's only one on Game Boy. *08:26-08:29* **Logan Moore**: And then and then, yeah, that's it because I've never played Dread yet either. *08:29-08:34* **Logan Moore**: But I want to play Dread. *08:34-08:35* **Logan Moore**: I might play Dread at some point as we go through this season. *08:35-08:38* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, Drought's good stuff in the in the Metroidvania zone. *08:38-08:42* **Logan Moore**: Just while we're in the zone. *08:38-08:40* **Max Roberts**: So for me, my overall history with Prime in general, the franchise, is pretty s interesting and scattered, I think. *08:43-08:54* **Max Roberts**: I believe my copy of Metroid Prime, I think, was a neighbor kid's, and they let me borrow it, and I think I never returned it. *08:55-09:02* **Logan Moore**: I think I have a couple of games like that in my collection too, where I'm like, I don't remember obtaining this. *09:02-09:08* **Max Roberts**: Bye. *09:07-09:08* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *09:08-09:08* **Max Roberts**: I know for sure Luigi's Mansion was another kid's. *09:08-09:12* **Max Roberts**: It's just one of these kid things, like it just gets lost in the shuffle. *09:12-09:16* **Max Roberts**: You never return it and they never ask for it. *09:18-09:20* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, you just don't even think about it sometimes, too. *09:20-09:22* **Max Roberts**: But I do know Luigi's Mansion was a kid's, and I think this copy of Prime was theirs as well. *09:22-09:27* **Max Roberts**: And what's *09:28-09:31* **Max Roberts**: Not interesting because it's I think it's a fairly common version of the game. *09:29-09:33* **Max Roberts**: Is mine was a two-disc version with the second disc being the Metroid Prime 2 Echoes *09:33-09:43* **Logan Moore**: I've seen this. *09:38-09:39* **Logan Moore**: I've seen this when I poke around on Mercari and I look to buy this game, so I know exactly what you're talking about. *09:39-09:46* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *09:44-09:44* **Max Roberts**: So it came with this demo disc for the second game. *09:46-09:49* **Max Roberts**: So I picked up Prime sometime after 2004, I believe. *09:49-09:53* **Max Roberts**: And I liked the demo disc, and I obviously enjoyed playing the game. *09:54-09:58* **Max Roberts**: And then later with Prime Echoes, I'd get *09:58-10:04* **Max Roberts**: My grandma's partner, he bought Echoes for Me at a GameStop. *10:02-10:05* **Max Roberts**: I remember that. *10:05-10:06* **Max Roberts**: And then I got the trilogy on Wii, which is how I got a hold of Corruption and the other stuff. *10:06-10:11* **Max Roberts**: I remember getting that at GameStop. *10:11-10:13* **Max Roberts**: And then hunters. *10:13-10:14* **Max Roberts**: I was obsessed with hunters on the DS. *10:14-10:16* **Max Roberts**: I think a big part of that was the first hunt demo cart that came with my DS. *10:17-10:21* **Max Roberts**: So I've 100% in Hunters and all that jazz, and I've never touched Federation Force. *10:21-10:27* **Max Roberts**: So when they announced Metroid Prime 4, I was very excited. *10:27-10:31* **Logan Moore**: I'm sorry, I apologize. *10:30-10:33* **Max Roberts**: Well, yeah, everyone everyone, sorry. *10:32-10:34* **Max Roberts**: It was one of the it's one of those moments you see it, you saw the stars and you hear the music and immediately you like you knew. *10:34-10:41* **Max Roberts**: It was great. *10:41-10:49* **Logan Moore**: I I just think I just need to say this for posterity's sake. *10:41-10:43* **Logan Moore**: It'd it'd be very funny if Nintendo has re-revealed that game by the time this episode is l live. *10:43-10:49* **Max Roberts**: I hope that's the case. *10:49-10:50* **Max Roberts**: I hope so. *10:51-10:52* **Logan Moore**: There's a chance. *10:51-10:51* **Logan Moore**: I mean, we've got game awards coming up, and then we don't know when this episode's posting yet, but Nintendo tends to do like a February direct. *10:52-10:59* **Logan Moore**: So, like. *11:00-11:00* **Max Roberts**: And if they're if they truly are doing a new console next year, they may. *11:00-11:04* **Max Roberts**: Because I remember the Switch was a January event. *11:04-11:06* **Logan Moore**: Everything we're saying here is probably they're probably people are probably like, what are you talking about, you two idiots? *11:06-11:10* **Max Roberts**: The super sweet this is the record. *11:10-11:16* **Logan Moore**: We're recording this in October 2023 to just get that out there. *11:10-11:15* **Logan Moore**: So *11:15-11:17* **Max Roberts**: And so Prime itself, I've just I remember playing it, exploring this world, dabbling with it. *11:17-11:26* **Max Roberts**: But here's the confession: I've never beaten it. *11:26-11:29* **Max Roberts**: Meta Ridley always I couldn't beat Meta Ridley. *11:29-11:33* **Max Roberts**: And my save, I checked for a *11:33-11:42* **Logan Moore**: I found Meta Redley kinda easy. *11:34-11:36* **Max Roberts**: Ten-year-old? *11:40-11:42* **Logan Moore**: Compared to some of the other bosses, at least. *11:40-11:43* **Max Roberts**: A ten-year-old I was not having a good time with Med Ridley. *11:42-11:46* **Logan Moore**: At least you got there. *11:45-11:46* **Logan Moore**: That's pretty impressive, to be honest, for a kid. *11:46-11:49* **Max Roberts**: I have my save. *11:48-11:49* **Max Roberts**: I've actually been contemplating like maybe I should go back to the save and beat the game once and for all, and then what? *11:49-11:58* **Logan Moore**: So wait, hold on. *11:55-11:57* **Logan Moore**: Did you never know why the game was called Metroid Prime? *11:57-12:01* **Max Roberts**: So, yeah, so here's the thing. *12:00-12:02* **Max Roberts**: So, not at the time, but since then. *12:02-12:05* **Logan Moore**: Because I didn't know that until I played. *12:04-12:07* **Logan Moore**: I was like, oh, okay, there we go. *12:07-12:09* **Logan Moore**: They said the thing. *12:09-12:11* **Max Roberts**: So so since then I have learned that the final boss is a Met is Metroid Prime. *12:10-12:18* **Max Roberts**: But I have never seen the end of this game until beating it for remastered. *12:18-12:23* **Max Roberts**: I've never seen it in a speedrun at a GDQ or anything. *12:23-12:26* **Max Roberts**: I've just never watched a Let's Play. *12:26-12:28* **Max Roberts**: So I had no idea, truly, no idea what happens after beating Meta Ridley. *12:28-12:35* **Logan Moore**: Well, now I want to talk about the ending of the game with you. *12:33-12:36* **Logan Moore**: Were you surprised when she took her helmet off? *12:36-12:38* **Max Roberts**: What? *12:39-12:40* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, she has her helmet off at the end of the game. *12:40-12:43* **Max Roberts**: When? *12:44-12:44* **Logan Moore**: I must have done something that you didn't. *12:46-12:49* **Logan Moore**: Maybe that must be an unlockable thing. *12:49-12:51* **Max Roberts**: Maybe I missed it 'cause I was typing something? *12:50-12:53* **Logan Moore**: I mean, it's like the final cutscene. *12:52-12:55* **Max Roberts**: I b the credits went through. *12:53-12:54* **Logan Moore**: She's standing on her ship and she takes her helmet off. *12:55-12:58* **Max Roberts**: I'll have to double back. *12:58-12:59* **Max Roberts**: Maybe I wasn't paying attention. *12:59-13:01* **Logan Moore**: That might be like an unlockable thing, like kind of how I know the original game. *13:02-13:07* **Logan Moore**: If you beat it in a certain amount of time, then uh *13:07-13:13* **Logan Moore**: What you would get to the end of the game and you find out Samus is actually a girl and she'd be wearing like a bikini or her underwear basically *13:11-13:22* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *13:18-13:18* **Logan Moore**: So, maybe it's like a similar thing here. *13:20-13:22* **Logan Moore**: Did you get all the energy cells? *13:22-13:23* **Logan Moore**: I'm trying to think of specific things I did in this playthrough. *13:24-13:27* **Max Roberts**: I did get all the energy things. *13:25-13:28* **Logan Moore**: That's like the only thing I can think of then that I like fully collected. *13:28-13:33* **Logan Moore**: I don't know. *13:33-13:34* **Max Roberts**: Oh, we'll have to look into it. *13:34-13:36* **Logan Moore**: I'm not sure. *13:34-13:36* **Logan Moore**: Maybe you just totally whiffed on it. *13:37-13:39* **Max Roberts**: I may not have been paying attention. *13:39-13:41* **Max Roberts**: I have the footage. *13:41-13:42* **Max Roberts**: I can pull it up. *13:42-13:44* **Logan Moore**: We can pull up the footage then. *13:44-13:45* **Max Roberts**: It is. *13:45-13:46* **Max Roberts**: So, yeah. *13:46-13:47* **Max Roberts**: I never have seen the end of this game. *13:48-13:50* **Max Roberts**: So I actually, when facing Meta Ridley the other day, I was a little nervous and actually got down to one, like my final health box, and he was *13:50-14:01* **Max Roberts**: A sliver, and I was like, if I lose this, I'm gonna flip out right now. *13:59-14:03* **Max Roberts**: Like, I'm not, it's not gonna go well for me. *14:03-14:05* **Logan Moore**: That's how it was when we played uh Thousand Year Door when I got to the final boss in that the *14:05-14:15* **Max Roberts**: But I did *14:05-14:12* **Logan Moore**: The corrupted peach or whatever. *14:13-14:15* **Logan Moore**: I had never beaten that as a kid, and so then when we played it, I was like, Oh no, I'm really intimidated because my ten-year-old self couldn't defeat this boss. *14:16-14:24* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *14:16-14:17* **Logan Moore**: I hope my *14:24-14:27* **Logan Moore**: Twenty seven-year-old version of myself can, so What did I do? *14:25-14:34* **Max Roberts**: I just looked at my I just looked at my footage. *14:29-14:31* **Max Roberts**: She did not take her helmet off, so I did not What was your clear percentage? *14:31-14:37* **Max Roberts**: Do you remember? *14:37-14:38* **Logan Moore**: Um I was higher than that. *14:37-14:42* **Max Roberts**: Do you write it down? *14:38-14:39* **Max Roberts**: I had 66%. *14:39-14:41* **Logan Moore**: I mean we could definitely look look it up here. *14:42-14:45* **Max Roberts**: If you have fewer than 75% of the item, the screen cuts to black, just as Samus removes her helmet. *14:45-14:49* **Max Roberts**: So 75% to 99%, you get her face, and then she enters. *14:49-14:54* **Logan Moore**: Okay, so I definitely had seventy five to ninety nine percent. *14:53-14:55* **Logan Moore**: That's of the scan data or of the collectibles? *14:56-14:58* **Max Roberts**: I just said data. *14:59-15:00* **Max Roberts**: So my overall completion percentage was sixty six percent. *15:00-15:03* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *15:01-15:02* **Max Roberts**: So *15:04-15:08* **Logan Moore**: Okay, yeah, I was definitely higher than that. *15:04-15:06* **Logan Moore**: I was scanning like crazy. *15:06-15:07* **Logan Moore**: I was collecting everything I could find. *15:07-15:09* **Logan Moore**: I was also kind of fi following a guide, not fully for my whole playthrough, but *15:09-15:14* **Logan Moore**: That guide helped shine the light on some things I probably otherwise would have missed. *15:14-15:19* **Logan Moore**: So, I mean, I assume you're seeing Samus without the helmet out now, if you Google this. *15:19-15:25* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I saw the picture. *15:24-15:25* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, that's cool. *15:26-15:27* **Max Roberts**: So that's my history, though, with Prime. *15:28-15:30* **Logan Moore**: I was gonna say, we've done a lot of talking here, but I don't think we have talked about what either of us actually think about the game. *15:29-15:37* **Logan Moore**: We have not like we've talked about this game before recording, but I've been very dodgy with what I think about it. *15:38-15:46* **Max Roberts**: Well, you made some comments that make me think uh think you're actually maybe more negative than I would have anticipated. *15:45-15:54* **Logan Moore**: I made some comments. *15:46-15:48* **Max Roberts**: But fill me in. *15:54-15:56* **Logan Moore**: I I think *15:55-16:00* **Logan Moore**: That this is a very, very good game, but it overstays its welcome. *15:59-16:05* **Max Roberts**: Okay, I'll take it. *16:02-16:03* **Max Roberts**: Interesting. *16:05-16:06* **Logan Moore**: If this game was like two or three hours shorter, I feel like it would be far superior. *16:06-16:12* **Logan Moore**: to be honest with you. *16:11-16:12* **Logan Moore**: I feel like it gets like 11 hours, I want to say 11, 11 and a half, twelve. *16:12-16:20* **Max Roberts**: What was your final playtime? *16:12-16:14* **Max Roberts**: Really? *16:18-16:18* **Max Roberts**: Okay. *16:18-16:19* **Max Roberts**: Wow. *16:19-16:19* **Max Roberts**: I was I'm at twelve hours, fifty five minutes, so thirteen hours. *16:20-16:24* **Logan Moore**: What was yours? *16:20-16:21* **Max Roberts**: I was thirteen hours. *16:24-16:26* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, that's I think this should be like a good like eight to ten hour experience. *16:25-16:32* **Max Roberts**: But you're saying subtract two hours from 11, so you're saying like a nine, ten hour game. *16:26-16:30* **Max Roberts**: So that's the interest. *16:30-16:31* **Logan Moore**: The reason I say that is because *16:32-16:37* **Logan Moore**: My first the first half or more of this game, I was like thoroughly loving it. *16:35-16:42* **Logan Moore**: Like all my notes are *16:42-16:46* **Logan Moore**: Very positive. *16:44-16:45* **Logan Moore**: Like, this is an absolutely perfect adaptation of a Metroidvania game to 3D. *16:45-16:51* **Logan Moore**: The vibes are immaculate. *16:52-16:53* **Logan Moore**: I feel like I'm getting lost in this world. *16:53-16:54* **Logan Moore**: The soundtrack's amazing. *16:55-16:56* **Logan Moore**: Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. *16:56-16:57* **Logan Moore**: But like the final hours of the game, especially when you start trying to find all the different uh is it sh the Chozo is it the artifacts? *16:57-17:05* **Max Roberts**: Artifacts, yeah. *17:05-17:06* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, when you start trying to find the artifacts, that involves a lot of backtracking. *17:06-17:11* **Logan Moore**: And you're not really. *17:11-17:13* **Logan Moore**: You're not really exploring any more of the world at that point because you've kind of discovered everything there is to discover, and you're instead just trying to find like little *17:14-17:25* **Logan Moore**: Puzzles in the environment that you haven't either had access to or you haven't just noticed, I guess, because you haven't had all the tools in your disposal. *17:23-17:34* **Logan Moore**: So, the final hours of this game get very, very backtrack heavy, and it started to lose me late, like, hard. *17:35-17:42* **Logan Moore**: Like, I still think all the environments are great and the music's great and stuff like that, but like *17:43-17:49* **Logan Moore**: I guess I could only like go through some of those environments so many times before I was like, because I knew where I had to get to. *17:48-17:55* **Logan Moore**: Like, that was the thing that was frustrating. *17:56-17:58* **Max Roberts**: And you have to walk there. *17:56-17:58* **Max Roberts**: You can't fast travel. *17:58-17:59* **Logan Moore**: Yes. *17:58-17:59* **Logan Moore**: Yep. *17:59-18:00* **Max Roberts**: You can't teleport. *17:59-18:01* **Logan Moore**: There's nothing like that, which I think is good, and that's how Metrovania games should be. *18:00-18:05* **Logan Moore**: But I know where I need to get to. *18:05-18:07* **Logan Moore**: I know the part of the map I need to be on. *18:07-18:09* **Logan Moore**: And I'm just trying to figure out. *18:10-18:12* **Logan Moore**: Like, what the fastest route is to get there. *18:13-18:15* **Logan Moore**: And a lot of times, there isn't a super quick route. *18:15-18:18* **Logan Moore**: Like, you have to. *18:19-18:21* **Max Roberts**: Go through a couple of levels to get to a place. *18:20-18:24* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *18:23-18:24* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *18:24-18:24* **Logan Moore**: And that was what really annoyed me the most. *18:24-18:28* **Logan Moore**: And then that was also why I started using a guide, was because I was trying to *18:28-18:36* **Logan Moore**: I was trying to create like an ideal route to go get all the artifacts. *18:34-18:37* **Logan Moore**: Like, okay, if I'm going to have to go through this area, like, is there one? *18:37-18:40* **Logan Moore**: Is there a Chozo artifact that I haven't gotten in this part of the map that I'm going to be going through anyway? *18:40-18:45* **Logan Moore**: That I should just. *18:45-18:46* **Logan Moore**: Like, keep an eye out for and go get. *18:46-18:48* **Logan Moore**: So, I definitely used a guide to help just that because, and, but I did that for my own *18:48-18:56* **Logan Moore**: Sanity to some degree because it was really starting to lose me. *18:54-18:59* **Logan Moore**: But everything before that I thought was really, really fantastic. *18:59-19:02* **Logan Moore**: I just think that that last *19:02-19:06* **Logan Moore**: Fourth of the game or so really drags quite heavily, if I'm being honest. *19:05-19:11* **Max Roberts**: It does really involve backtracking because you have to go back to deposit. *19:11-19:15* **Max Roberts**: the first round of artifacts before you can get the final three. *19:16-19:19* **Logan Moore**: That's the thing *19:18-19:25* **Max Roberts**: That is the big, I think, the biggest design misstep. *19:19-19:23* **Logan Moore**: Yes, that that drove that was insane to me because you're already doing enough backtracking as it is going back to all these different environments and stuff. *19:23-19:31* **Logan Moore**: But when you can't even scan all of the artifact, like *19:31-19:36* **Logan Moore**: Details or descriptors that tell you where you need to be going. *19:34-19:37* **Logan Moore**: Because some thing that's crazy is some of them end up being very close to one another. *19:37-19:41* **Logan Moore**: And then you go back and you deposit it. *19:42-19:43* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *19:42-19:42* **Logan Moore**: And it's like, oh, by the way, there's another one right back there where you just were. *19:43-19:46* **Logan Moore**: It's like, dude, are you serious? *19:46-19:48* **Logan Moore**: Like, *19:48-19:49* **Logan Moore**: You could have just got them both. *19:49-19:50* **Logan Moore**: They were very close to each other. *19:51-19:52* **Logan Moore**: And that, yes, I'm very glad you mentioned that because that was something that drove me up a wall even more so. *19:52-19:58* **Logan Moore**: Was that *19:59-20:03* **Max Roberts**: And I think the other thing, the difference between you and me this time around is I knew you needed the artifacts to beat the game. *19:59-20:06* **Max Roberts**: So from the very beginning, I was like, okay, let's look for this and this and this. *20:06-20:11* **Logan Moore**: Yes. *20:06-20:07* **Logan Moore**: I messaged you at some point, and I was like, Do you need these? *20:10-20:12* **Logan Moore**: Or is this just like for the heck of it? *20:13-20:14* **Logan Moore**: And you're like, Nope, you need those. *20:15-20:17* **Max Roberts**: And I hesitated. *20:17-20:18* **Max Roberts**: I was like, do I let him get to the end of the game and realize he was supposed to get all of those? *20:18-20:23* **Max Roberts**: And I was like, he would get really mad if I didn't tell him. *20:23-20:26* **Max Roberts**: So, yeah, that I knew that. *20:27-20:29* **Max Roberts**: So, I was all as I'm in the environment, I'm like *20:29-20:34* **Max Roberts**: All right, here, here, here, and here. *20:32-20:35* **Max Roberts**: Can I get to that gnome? *20:35-20:36* **Max Roberts**: No, what do I need to get that? *20:36-20:37* **Max Roberts**: And then, as soon as I would get that item, I'd remember, oh, let's go get it. *20:37-20:40* **Max Roberts**: We're here. *20:40-20:41* **Max Roberts**: Let's get it. *20:41-20:41* **Max Roberts**: Let's grab it. *20:41-20:42* **Max Roberts**: And so I was already. *20:42-20:43* **Max Roberts**: The only thing was I once I got the plasma beam, which is kind of the final real item, and that and the X-ray visor kind of obstructing everything, I was like, okay, I only needed the final three. *20:44-20:56* **Max Roberts**: You know, and so then it was just and two of them are super quick and easy to get. *20:57-21:01* **Max Roberts**: Those final three. *21:01-21:02* **Max Roberts**: One of them is in that tower in Magmar Caverns or Magmore, and then Fendrana has one. *21:02-21:10* **Logan Moore**: One of them you gotta melt the yeah, one of them you gotta melt the ice, and then the other one's the one with the hand thing that throws you. *21:08-21:15* **Max Roberts**: Melt the ice in Fendrana. *21:10-21:15* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it's it's so *21:16-21:20* **Max Roberts**: Like, they're not hard, they're not tough challenge ones to get, but it is, they just gate the information for them off. *21:18-21:25* **Max Roberts**: I am curious. *21:25-21:26* **Max Roberts**: If you need the clue to even get it. *21:28-21:29* **Max Roberts**: Because like you just shoot the missiles at the rock and probably blow it up. *21:30-21:33* **Logan Moore**: No, you don't need the clues. *21:32-21:35* **Max Roberts**: Okay, so that makes second playthroughs *21:34-21:41* **Logan Moore**: Again, cheating. *21:36-21:37* **Logan Moore**: I I thought I followed a guide, and so *21:37-21:43* **Max Roberts**: Okay, so okay. *21:40-21:41* **Logan Moore**: Sometimes some one of them I had to go back to unlock or whatever, or to unlock those other descriptors. *21:41-21:49* **Logan Moore**: And I was like, dude, I'm just going to look at a guide and see if there's some nearby. *21:49-21:52* **Logan Moore**: And there were. *21:52-21:53* **Logan Moore**: So I was like, okay, glad I didn't, you know, spend. *21:53-21:56* **Logan Moore**: Because like you said, it'd be one thing if there was like a fast travel point that you could go to, like. *21:56-22:01* **Logan Moore**: Right by the Chozo area where yeah, yeah, but and I get that that's against the kind of purpose of these games, and I like that there's not fast travel in this game, but also *22:01-22:15* **Max Roberts**: Save rooms or something. *22:02-22:04* **Logan Moore**: I wish there was fast travel in this game. *22:13-22:15* **Logan Moore**: Like, it's a double-edged sword because I really like that there isn't. *22:16-22:19* **Logan Moore**: But it does artificially inflate the length of the game for certain. *22:19-22:24* **Max Roberts**: It is that is frustrating. *22:23-22:25* **Max Roberts**: I absolutely will give you that. *22:25-22:26* **Max Roberts**: But I I didn't mind *22:26-22:34* **Max Roberts**: Being in the world, especially toward the end, you're just so powerful that you can just run through the environment. *22:32-22:40* **Max Roberts**: You don't have to kill everyone. *22:40-22:41* **Max Roberts**: You've got the grapple, like you can zip over the lava now. *22:41-22:44* **Max Roberts**: So, to me at least, I would pause, I'd look at the map, I'd go, I need to go here, here, here, to get to this place. *22:45-22:52* **Max Roberts**: And then I'd just like flow through the world and get there. *22:52-22:56* **Max Roberts**: So *22:56-22:59* **Max Roberts**: I didn't mind it, but I do see that, especially if you're it's just like the doubling back, not just in natural backtracking, but the *22:58-23:10* **Max Roberts**: If it is your first time you're light and you're not playing with the guy that you're like, you gotta go get the clues and then you gotta go back out into the world. *23:09-23:16* **Max Roberts**: I think one of them is in the minds, is one of those last ones. *23:16-23:19* **Max Roberts**: So it's like, ugh. *23:19-23:20* **Max Roberts**: You've got to go in, I think, the the worst uh definitely the longest, like largest space in the game, down to the bottom to go get one of them. *23:20-23:30* **Max Roberts**: And that isn't that wasn't fun from a mechanical perspective, but I like being in the world. *23:31-23:38* **Logan Moore**: How do you feel like this game is *23:39-23:43* **Logan Moore**: Stitched together because we're talking a lot about how, like, you're running through it and flowing through it, and all the all the different how many areas are there? *23:41-23:48* **Logan Moore**: Four, five, I think, five, maybe. *23:48-23:51* **Max Roberts**: There are five. *23:49-23:51* **Logan Moore**: So, all five *23:51-23:55* **Max Roberts**: There's the overworld talent for like the the jungly Chozo Ruins, Manmore Camerons, Fendrana Drifts, and the Face on Minds. *23:51-24:01* **Logan Moore**: Talon Overworld, Magmore, Chizaroons. *23:54-23:59* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, and so they're all pretty interconnected with one another, but they are interconnected in *24:00-24:07* **Logan Moore**: Different ways. *24:06-24:07* **Logan Moore**: And I liked learning how they were all stitched together. *24:07-24:10* **Logan Moore**: Like, oh, this elevator spit me out to this portion of Talon Overworld, and I haven't been here yet, and I didn't know this was here. *24:11-24:17* **Logan Moore**: And okay, cool. *24:17-24:18* **Logan Moore**: And so I liked learning that. *24:18-24:20* **Logan Moore**: But I feel like it's also a little complicated to it's complicated, I'll say it like this, to map it all out in my brain in this way. *24:21-24:31* **Logan Moore**: And maybe this is like the adaptation of, you know, playing a Metroidvania game in 3D, which is what this game is doing. *24:31-24:38* **Logan Moore**: It's easier to kind of keep everything. *24:39-24:41* **Logan Moore**: Mapped out in my own brain while I play when it's just a flat, you know, grid or whatever. *24:42-24:49* **Max Roberts**: I need to go left and up instead of I need to go down this hallway, take a left in this room, go down this elevator, and yeah. *24:48-24:59* **Logan Moore**: It's yes, yeah. *24:49-24:51* **Logan Moore**: And I mentioned that to you. *24:59-25:00* **Logan Moore**: I think that was one of the few things I mentioned to you early when I started playing. *25:00-25:03* **Logan Moore**: I was like, I feel really lost. *25:04-25:05* **Logan Moore**: Like, and you're like, what do you mean? *25:05-25:06* **Logan Moore**: I'm like, I just feel like. *25:07-25:08* **Logan Moore**: Confused, like where I'm at at all times. *25:08-25:11* **Logan Moore**: And I wrote down: I feel constantly lost and like I'm going the wrong way, but I also love that. *25:11-25:16* **Logan Moore**: Like, there is an aspect of like *25:16-25:20* **Logan Moore**: Not knowing where I'm going, or like getting kind of twisted around in this world that I did love because it was scratching that exploration itch. *25:19-25:27* **Logan Moore**: And another game, I think there's even a *25:27-25:33* **Logan Moore**: Game Maker's toolkit video about this potentially, about how there are similarities between this game and Dark Souls, actually. *25:32-25:40* **Logan Moore**: And that's kind of the same sort of vibe that I was getting from this at the time. *25:40-25:44* **Logan Moore**: All of Dark Souls of One is so interconnected in the same sort of way. *25:44-25:49* **Logan Moore**: And I think it's the first-person nature of Metroid Prime that had me like. *25:50-25:55* **Logan Moore**: Confused at times because I wasn't. *25:56-25:58* **Logan Moore**: I don't know. *25:58-25:59* **Logan Moore**: It's just a different perspective for these types of games and how you're engaging with the environment around you. *25:59-26:06* **Logan Moore**: And I don't know. *26:06-26:07* **Logan Moore**: So, I didn't know if the same was true for you because I know you've played this game before. *26:09-26:12* **Logan Moore**: I didn't know if you kind of knew where everything was at. *26:13-26:16* **Max Roberts**: Now *26:13-26:18* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I I remem it's I think this world is one that you don't forget. *26:17-26:24* **Max Roberts**: Like the the environments, the *26:24-26:30* **Max Roberts**: Just the space of it. *26:29-26:30* **Max Roberts**: Now, I didn't remember the exact flow of everything. *26:30-26:33* **Max Roberts**: Like, oh, this hallway goes here and that. *26:33-26:35* **Max Roberts**: But *26:36-26:38* **Max Roberts**: In my mind, it was so etched that is you land in the jungle and you're in this like waterfall-y area, and then it's you go to the ruins and *26:37-26:48* **Max Roberts**: You're exploring this, and then you go to the lava, and then you get the sweet relief of Fendrana. *26:46-26:52* **Max Roberts**: And it's so that whole thing-I did forget about the mines. *26:52-26:55* **Max Roberts**: I actually, my brain wiped the mines out of existence. *26:55-26:58* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, 'cause I said something about like Samus yearns for the mines. *26:58-27:01* **Logan Moore**: I'm going there. *27:01-27:02* **Logan Moore**: And you're like, what? *27:02-27:04* **Max Roberts**: Why had been there? *27:03-27:04* **Logan Moore**: I think I texted you. *27:04-27:05* **Max Roberts**: I think I had been there at that point, I believe. *27:04-27:06* **Logan Moore**: Oh, had you? *27:06-27:07* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *27:07-27:07* **Max Roberts**: 'Cause you were you played really fast, but I was down by in the mi I actually had just gotten to the mines, I think, beforehand. *27:07-27:14* **Logan Moore**: I knew it. *27:07-27:08* **Logan Moore**: Mm-hmm. *27:10-27:11* **Max Roberts**: So it's so I did forget completely about the mines and then uh when I realized how long and deep the mines go. *27:14-27:21* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *27:15-27:15* **Max Roberts**: I was like, oh no. *27:21-27:23* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, dude, the mine's definitely the worst area. *27:23-27:25* **Max Roberts**: The mines are the like the threshing point. *27:24-27:28* **Logan Moore**: Definitely the worst. *27:25-27:27* **Max Roberts**: It is, this is where they weed people out. *27:28-27:30* **Logan Moore**: That's yeah, and then it gets worse the first time down, but dude, the second time down is terrible too because there's freaking Metroids everywhere, and I hate Metroids. *27:31-27:42* **Max Roberts**: That first time down, it's a weed out. *27:33-27:36* **Logan Moore**: Drive me nuts. *27:43-27:44* **Max Roberts**: The Metroids are g I think the metroids are easier in this game. *27:44-27:48* **Max Roberts**: base and the the baby metroids. *27:49-27:51* **Max Roberts**: The uh the fission metroids are terrible. *27:52-27:55* **Logan Moore**: Ah no. *27:55-27:58* **Max Roberts**: The ones that split? *27:55-27:57* **Max Roberts**: Oh *27:57-27:59* **Max Roberts**: I don't like them. *27:58-27:59* **Max Roberts**: I do not like the beam, like, because then you gotta switch your beams and it's like a whole thing. *27:59-28:02* **Max Roberts**: I do not like fission Metroids. *28:03-28:05* **Logan Moore**: The switching the beams is like I was I was thinking of this while playing I was like there's gotta be like a better way to swap between your *28:04-28:16* **Max Roberts**: Did you did you check the settings? *28:11-28:14* **Logan Moore**: No, is there alternate options? *28:14-28:16* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, there it is. *28:16-28:17* **Max Roberts**: I was thinking the same thing. *28:18-28:19* **Max Roberts**: 'Cause so on the GameCube, it's easy. *28:19-28:21* **Max Roberts**: It's the C-stick. *28:21-28:22* **Max Roberts**: So you just flick it. *28:22-28:24* **Logan Moore**: That's great. *28:23-28:24* **Max Roberts**: It's perfect. *28:24-28:25* **Max Roberts**: But. *28:25-28:25* **Max Roberts**: The remaster given us dual stick aiming controls, which is better, significantly better. *28:26-28:32* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *28:31-28:32* **Max Roberts**: So you can't have that. *28:33-28:34* **Max Roberts**: So you had to hold down the X button and use the D pad. *28:34-28:37* **Logan Moore**: Use the D-pen that should have done that. *28:37-28:47* **Max Roberts**: And it's like, oh. *28:37-28:39* **Max Roberts**: There is a setting in settings to alternate that. *28:39-28:42* **Max Roberts**: So the visors, you hold the X button, use the D pad, and you can and I changed that. *28:42-28:47* **Max Roberts**: I changed it late in the game and it while there was a little bit of brain mix up, *28:47-28:53* **Max Roberts**: It is so much better constantly. *28:53-29:00* **Logan Moore**: 'Cause you're like hardly ever changing the visors, but you are changing your guns. *28:54-28:59* **Logan Moore**: You're changing your blasters substantially more than the visors, at least. *28:59-29:03* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *29:02-29:03* **Max Roberts**: I it was one of my notes. *29:03-29:05* **Logan Moore**: So *29:04-29:13* **Max Roberts**: I was like, there's gotta be a way to switch this. *29:05-29:08* **Max Roberts**: And then I checked later in the game and I was like, I wish I'd been using this the whole time. *29:08-29:13* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, and that's a death that's definitely a that's definitely a stupid stupid gamer moment on my part. *29:11-29:16* **Logan Moore**: Like, oh, they should change this, and then I don't even go look at the options menu. *29:16-29:19* **Logan Moore**: It's like, oh. *29:20-29:21* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *29:21-29:22* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, so *29:22-29:28* **Logan Moore**: That's not the first time I've done that. *29:23-29:25* **Logan Moore**: I've actually done that far too many times. *29:25-29:27* **Logan Moore**: But anyway. *29:27-29:28* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it was it was a sweet relief to get that. *29:28-29:31* **Max Roberts**: And it really *29:31-29:36* **Max Roberts**: I mean, kind of, let's talk about the controls a little bit. *29:34-29:38* **Max Roberts**: Because it's this is a game that has a lot of options. *29:39-29:42* **Max Roberts**: I'm not just meaning in the settings menu. *29:42-29:44* **Max Roberts**: Because the history of this game is *29:44-29:48* **Max Roberts**: It's a GameCube first-person adventure game, is what they advertised it as. *29:47-29:51* **Max Roberts**: Not a first-person shooter, but a first-person adventure game. *29:51-29:54* **Max Roberts**: And *29:54-29:57* **Max Roberts**: The GameCube controller, as much as I love it and conveniently have one on my desk, I think it's the best controller ever. *29:55-30:03* **Max Roberts**: It is not great for an FPS game. *30:03-30:06* **Max Roberts**: The C-Stick is just not right for it. *30:06-30:08* **Max Roberts**: So they create the lock on. *30:09-30:12* **Max Roberts**: They use the lock on system basically for Mockerino Time, and it makes it totally playable on GameCube. *30:12-30:17* **Max Roberts**: And then they port it to the Wii in Japan and eventually here in the States with the trilogy with motion controls, which are *30:18-30:29* **Max Roberts**: Transformative from the GameCube controller. *30:27-30:29* **Max Roberts**: You're able to move around and aim independently. *30:29-30:33* **Logan Moore**: Mm-hmm. *30:32-30:32* **Max Roberts**: And then here we go, we finally get proper dual stick analog controls. *30:33-30:38* **Logan Moore**: It only took twenty one years. *30:37-30:39* **Max Roberts**: But you can switch it to those other two options. *30:40-30:45* **Max Roberts**: You can even use a GameCube controller in Prime Remastered and have the controls mirrored. *30:45-30:51* **Max Roberts**: I think that's really interesting, and I kinda wish for this episode I had dabbled with the other modes just to reacquaint myself, really. *30:51-31:00* **Max Roberts**: But I do plan on like I plan on playing Echoes on the GameCube, and then I'm going to play Corruption obviously on the Wii. *31:01-31:07* **Max Roberts**: So that way I have all three samplings by the time we're done with this season, as I've played in all three major formats, controls. *31:07-31:14* **Logan Moore**: And then you'll play Metroid Prime 4 on this Switch 2. *31:14-31:17* **Max Roberts**: But I think it's yeah, with mind controller or whatever. *31:14-31:20* **Max Roberts**: But *31:21-31:24* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, that's their new tech. *31:21-31:23* **Max Roberts**: How did you feel, besides switching beams, like how do you feel about how the game controlled and felt? *31:25-31:31* **Max Roberts**: Because it is. *31:31-31:32* **Max Roberts**: It's not like a shooter shooter. *31:33-31:36* **Max Roberts**: You are shooting a lot, but I'm just curious kind of how you felt about the feel of the game. *31:36-31:41* **Logan Moore**: Um yeah, I definitely had problems on this front too, mainly with the movement. *31:41-31:48* **Logan Moore**: Um I think Samus feels very stiff. *31:48-31:52* **Logan Moore**: Like I'm talking like with with the platforming sections in particular and the um *31:52-32:00* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *31:56-31:57* **Logan Moore**: Like the grappling hook and stuff like that. *31:58-32:00* **Logan Moore**: Like that stuff feels does not feel good. *32:00-32:04* **Max Roberts**: The grappling hook. *32:01-32:02* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *32:02-32:03* **Logan Moore**: All of the platforming in this game is. *32:04-32:07* **Logan Moore**: Not great. *32:07-32:08* **Logan Moore**: And once you obviously, once you get the double jump, that's a little bit improved. *32:09-32:12* **Logan Moore**: But like, she still feels like it's like, she feels like she's like T-posing and jumping throughout the environments or something like that. *32:13-32:19* **Logan Moore**: Like, there's no, and that's just. *32:19-32:21* **Logan Moore**: The old nature of this game, and that's what I chalk it up to, and that's kind of that. *32:21-32:26* **Logan Moore**: Otherwise, as far as like shooting controls and stuff go, I felt like it was generally pretty fine. *32:27-32:32* **Logan Moore**: The lock-on feature is *32:33-32:36* **Logan Moore**: Great. *32:35-32:35* **Logan Moore**: Like, I don't think this game could be played, you know, as a Call of Duty style game where you have to aim at every enemy you're fighting. *32:35-32:42* **Logan Moore**: Like, being able to lock on to enemies is vital. *32:42-32:46* **Logan Moore**: And, like, I feel like that's. *32:46-32:48* **Logan Moore**: Highly needed and great. *32:49-32:50* **Logan Moore**: Other, yeah, everything with the shooting and stuff like that, I felt like was generally pretty good. *32:50-32:53* **Logan Moore**: Obviously, I had problems with some of the controls, and clearly, I could have fixed those myself. *32:54-32:59* **Logan Moore**: But I think the gameplay has held up generally quite well here. *33:00-33:06* **Logan Moore**: And there's also the thing I'll say about the gameplay too is that *33:06-33:11* **Logan Moore**: At least with some of the areas, and especially once you start to get all of the different weapons and unlockables, is that there's a lot of different *33:10-33:20* **Logan Moore**: Methods that you can use to take down certain bosses and to take down certain enemies and stuff like that. *33:18-33:24* **Logan Moore**: Things that I really didn't realize until *33:25-33:31* **Logan Moore**: Later on, like, I was like, oh, I could use this weapon and interacts in this way. *33:29-33:34* **Logan Moore**: And I thought that was like the thing that's coming to mind. *33:34-33:37* **Logan Moore**: What is the *33:37-33:41* **Logan Moore**: Final pirate boss you fight. *33:39-33:40* **Logan Moore**: I meta Ridley, I guess, is a pirate. *33:40-33:43* **Max Roberts**: The Omega the Omega Pirate *33:42-33:50* **Logan Moore**: Is it Omega Pir the Omega Pirate, yeah? *33:43-33:46* **Logan Moore**: Like you if you go down there, you have to shoot you have to *33:46-33:51* **Logan Moore**: There's four weak spots that the Omega Pirate has, but it's also something that can like suck up your blaster attacks. *33:49-33:57* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, suck up the power, yeah. *33:55-33:57* **Logan Moore**: So you can go drop a power bomb right next to it and it blows them up right away. *33:57-34:00* **Logan Moore**: Like one of the *34:01-34:04* **Logan Moore**: And so, if you roll up into a morph ball and you go up and you drop one of the power bombs that you have right there, it'll nuke those parts of his body right away. *34:03-34:10* **Logan Moore**: And then that puts him into the zone where you can actually deal damage to him. *34:10-34:14* **Max Roberts**: Dear oh, should have thought of that. *34:13-34:16* **Logan Moore**: And that's something. *34:15-34:16* **Logan Moore**: That's something that I learned just kind of by accident. *34:16-34:19* **Logan Moore**: But then once I did, I was like, dude, that's awesome that you can do that. *34:19-34:22* **Logan Moore**: And that's what I'm saying. *34:22-34:23* **Logan Moore**: It's like, there's little things like that that I think you can kind of discover throughout the game with how certain weapons and certain *34:23-34:31* **Logan Moore**: Unlockability unlockable abilities that you have that you unlock and how they might interact with certain enemies. *34:31-34:37* **Logan Moore**: So I think the combat's all generally pretty good. *34:37-34:40* **Logan Moore**: The jumping is just the main thing that I had a problem with, honestly. *34:41-34:45* **Logan Moore**: And just the jumping and the movement, like the strafing doesn't feel great either. *34:45-34:49* **Logan Moore**: Like, they're like, there's a dodge blast thing you can do. *34:50-34:53* **Logan Moore**: Like, it all just feels so. *34:53-34:56* **Logan Moore**: Like, there's like no animation to it, and I get that it's a first-person game and you're not looking at Samus, but like it's so just rigid feeling, I guess. *34:56-35:06* **Logan Moore**: And so, yeah. *35:08-35:09* **Max Roberts**: I didn't care for the strafe this time around. *35:09-35:11* **Max Roberts**: I found myself when I wanted to strafe, I'd jump, and when I wanted to jump, I'd strafe. *35:11-35:15* **Max Roberts**: And so that led to me getting hit quite a bit. *35:15-35:17* **Logan Moore**: That's very I found that to be very inconsistent as well. *35:17-35:19* **Max Roberts**: And I *35:17-35:21* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I wasn't too keen on that this time around. *35:19-35:22* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *35:19-35:20* **Max Roberts**: And I felt like the grapple hook wasn't as fluid as I remember it. *35:22-35:25* **Max Roberts**: And that might be a corruption thing. *35:25-35:26* **Max Roberts**: I b maybe it's smoother in corruption with the Wii remote and stuff, but *35:27-35:32* **Max Roberts**: I was like, I should be like flying off of this. *35:31-35:33* **Max Roberts**: It took me a little bit to get the feel of the grapple hook this time around. *35:33-35:37* **Max Roberts**: But oh my gosh. *35:37-35:38* **Max Roberts**: They bait you with that sucker, man. *35:39-35:40* **Max Roberts**: Do you see those grapple points throughout so long in the game? *35:40-35:43* **Max Roberts**: And you get it. *35:43-35:44* **Logan Moore**: Dude, oh my gosh, yes. *35:43-35:46* **Max Roberts**: I'm like, I just want the grapple beam *35:45-35:50* **Max Roberts**: But overall, I do enjoy the combat, and I think it feels really good. *35:49-35:55* **Max Roberts**: There is something about the beam switching. *35:55-35:58* **Max Roberts**: in particular, that is satisfying. *35:58-36:00* **Max Roberts**: Besides the fission metroids, where you have to use two beams at once and metroids are chasing you, it's very stressful. *36:01-36:06* **Max Roberts**: But the rest of it I really enjoy. *36:06-36:08* **Max Roberts**: I remember specifically the the ice monsters, whatever they were called. *36:08-36:13* **Max Roberts**: Those have always stuck with me, where you have to get behind them, shatter the ice, and then damage the *36:13-36:21* **Logan Moore**: Oh, yeah. *36:16-36:17* **Max Roberts**: Internal organs on the inside. *36:19-36:23* **Max Roberts**: So I remember them. *36:23-36:25* **Max Roberts**: I the Chozo ghost they suck. *36:25-36:29* **Logan Moore**: Oh, why do they keep coming back? *36:29-36:31* **Max Roberts**: They're obnoxious. *36:30-36:31* **Logan Moore**: Like, if you even leave the room and come back in, it's like, we're back now. *36:31-36:34* **Logan Moore**: Hey, how's it going? *36:34-36:36* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it's God, I didn't yeah, they're they're rough, um, but *36:34-36:43* **Logan Moore**: So. *36:37-36:37* **Max Roberts**: The what the beams, I love how different they all feel. *36:42-36:47* **Max Roberts**: And they each have their own special unique properties that I really enjoy, especially when you get there *36:47-36:54* **Max Roberts**: missile power up equivalent of like a flamethrower or a charged ice shot or the electricity like beam and stuff. *36:52-37:00* **Max Roberts**: So *37:00-37:03* **Max Roberts**: I like the beams a lot. *37:01-37:03* **Max Roberts**: Did you have a a favorite beam? *37:03-37:06* **Max Roberts**: Were you partial? *37:06-37:07* **Logan Moore**: I like the was it, the plasma beam? *37:07-37:10* **Logan Moore**: Is that the last one you unlock? *37:10-37:11* **Max Roberts**: Plasma. *37:10-37:11* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, plasma's the best. *37:11-37:13* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, that's that's that's the best one. *37:11-37:13* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, I think the plasma one, honestly, I like the original one a lot too. *37:15-37:20* **Logan Moore**: I like that you can fire it so fast, but it's just so dang weak. *37:20-37:23* **Logan Moore**: Like, you get to the late game, and it's like, dude, this is not viable any longer. *37:24-37:28* **Logan Moore**: really. *37:29-37:29* **Logan Moore**: I feel like they really kind of force you to index into the Plasma Beam, which is fine. *37:30-37:35* **Logan Moore**: It's kind of like the late game unlockable, and you feel more powerful that way. *37:35-37:39* **Logan Moore**: But that would be my only sort of complaint is that the original beam that you get what is it even called? *37:40-37:48* **Logan Moore**: Just her arm cannon? *37:48-37:49* **Logan Moore**: I don't know. *37:49-37:51* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I'm I'm kidding. *37:50-37:52* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, just her standard arm cannon just does not feel great by the end of the game because it's just dealing so such little damage. *37:51-37:59* **Logan Moore**: And I get that I know the final boss, they make you cycle through all of them. *37:59-38:03* **Logan Moore**: um which is a cool fight and I feel like that's something that they had kept sort of uh *38:04-38:13* **Logan Moore**: Introducing throughout the game was the idea of switching between beams to kill different types of enemies. *38:12-38:17* **Logan Moore**: I know there's a bunch of different pirates, especially down in the mines, that can only take damage unless you use a certain *38:17-38:26* **Logan Moore**: unless you use one of the certain beams. *38:25-38:27* **Logan Moore**: So in that sense, maybe met the final Metroid Prime fight itself is not all that original, but I still liked it overall. *38:28-38:36* **Logan Moore**: Also, I will say this. *38:36-38:37* **Logan Moore**: I did not know that the *38:37-38:39* **Logan Moore**: Blah Ice Beam was in the game. *38:41-38:42* **Logan Moore**: And I know that's like a huge thing in the original, original Metroid, if I am not. *38:43-38:48* **Logan Moore**: Mistaken. *38:48-38:48* **Logan Moore**: And so when I saw it in this, I was like, oh, that that's that's cool. *38:49-38:53* **Max Roberts**: And then that's when you kind of roughly meet Metrids is also when you get that. *38:53-38:57* **Logan Moore**: Like, I don't know. *38:53-38:56* **Logan Moore**: Yes. *38:56-38:57* **Logan Moore**: Yes. *38:58-38:59* **Max Roberts**: It's good. *38:59-39:00* **Max Roberts**: I it always I always felt prepared for that once you get that. *39:00-39:04* **Logan Moore**: The standard one is called the power beam. *39:03-39:05* **Max Roberts**: Power beam. *39:05-39:06* **Logan Moore**: There we go. *39:06-39:06* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, the beams are great. *39:08-39:10* **Max Roberts**: The Arcane, the other kind of staple. *39:10-39:14* **Max Roberts**: The Morph Ball. *39:15-39:16* **Max Roberts**: What do you think about that? *39:17-39:17* **Max Roberts**: First person to third person? *39:18-39:20* **Logan Moore**: Uh, the Morph Ball is really cool. *39:20-39:21* **Logan Moore**: I like how it looks a lot in this game. *39:22-39:23* **Logan Moore**: That is the one thing that I do think controls pretty well. *39:23-39:26* **Logan Moore**: It's very sensitive, but there is a certain level of control that I do feel like I had over it at *39:26-39:34* **Logan Moore**: Pretty much all times. *39:33-39:34* **Logan Moore**: I think the upgrades for it are cool too, the boost and then the different variants of the bombs. *39:35-39:40* **Logan Moore**: I do have some issues with the power bombs, which we can *39:41-39:46* **Logan Moore**: Talk about mainly just that being on and like ammo or a consumable that you can run out of, which was frustrating. *39:44-39:52* **Logan Moore**: But other than that, I will say the funny thing with the Morph ball, it took me about *39:52-39:58* **Logan Moore**: Halfway into my playthrough to realize you could jump no to just jump, period. *39:57-40:06* **Max Roberts**: With the bombs? *40:01-40:02* **Max Roberts**: You can just jump with the B button? *40:06-40:09* **Logan Moore**: You *40:06-40:09* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *40:08-40:09* **Logan Moore**: With one of the buttons, I don't know what it is. *40:10-40:12* **Logan Moore**: I it was X for it's X. *40:12-40:15* **Max Roberts**: I didn't even try that. *40:12-40:14* **Logan Moore**: You can just jump with it. *40:15-40:16* **Logan Moore**: And so, a lot of the puzzles, a lot of the puzzles around the world. *40:17-40:19* **Logan Moore**: So, you probably did the same thing as me, where you were using the bombs to get up on any higher ledges. *40:19-40:25* **Logan Moore**: And no, you can just jump. *40:25-40:26* **Logan Moore**: And so, a lot of those puzzles where it's like they're tucking away. *40:27-40:30* **Logan Moore**: Energy cells or whatever, like ve to in very high areas, you can do your initial bounce as just a jump rather than the bomb. *40:31-40:40* **Max Roberts**: Bye bye. *40:34-40:35* **Max Roberts**: Oh. *40:40-40:40* **Logan Moore**: So you don't have to time it. *40:40-40:42* **Logan Moore**: In such an annoying manner, which is what I assume you and I both did. *40:42-40:46* **Max Roberts**: Yep, we just are bomb jumping. *40:45-40:47* **Max Roberts**: Oh, that's funny. *40:47-40:49* **Logan Moore**: I mean, I didn't, I mean, they don't really tell you. *40:48-40:50* **Logan Moore**: They're just kind of like, Here's the morph ball, you can roll around now. *40:50-40:53* **Logan Moore**: Have fun. *40:53-40:54* **Logan Moore**: But yes, there is a actual just a bounce you can do with it. *40:55-40:59* **Max Roberts**: Very cool. *40:55-40:56* **Max Roberts**: Cool. *40:59-41:00* **Logan Moore**: So yeah. *41:00-41:04* **Max Roberts**: Nice. *41:00-41:00* **Max Roberts**: Good to know. *41:01-41:01* **Max Roberts**: Well, it'll help going forward, you know, for the next few games that we're going to be playing. *41:01-41:05* **Max Roberts**: So that will help. *41:05-41:07* **Max Roberts**: I you know, the morph ball was one of the toughest things for them to develop. *41:07-41:12* **Max Roberts**: It actually was so important to the game that Miyamoto said *41:12-41:19* **Max Roberts**: If you can't do the Morphball, just don't make the game. *41:17-41:20* **Max Roberts**: So apparently that was one of the hardest things to implement. *41:20-41:24* **Max Roberts**: I think it's one of the most immersive it's one of the most immersive qualities of the game. *41:24-41:31* **Max Roberts**: I think because it you pulled out into this third person perspective, but then you pulled right back into Samus' visor. *41:31-41:38* **Max Roberts**: And it's *41:39-41:42* **Max Roberts**: It really makes the game just feel really cohesive. *41:40-41:44* **Max Roberts**: It's one of those world building, world immersion techniques and mechanics, I think. *41:44-41:49* **Max Roberts**: Great, and I love the spider ball. *41:49-41:51* **Max Roberts**: I love the spider ball, the magnet track stuff. *41:52-41:55* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *41:54-41:55* **Max Roberts**: That's great. *41:55-41:55* **Max Roberts**: I think it's so cool. *41:56-41:57* **Logan Moore**: It's very video gamey as well, which is what I like about it. *41:57-42:03* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *42:01-42:01* **Logan Moore**: Like, it it feels. *42:03-42:04* **Logan Moore**: It doesn't feel like anything else, and it just yeah, it's very unique compared to all other games out there. *42:05-42:12* **Logan Moore**: And so, yes, I think, like, when you first said that about Miyamoto, like, oh, they'll make the game if you can immorphal. *42:14-42:19* **Logan Moore**: I'm like, oh, that's kind of stupid. *42:19-42:20* **Logan Moore**: And then, like, the more I think about it, I'm like, no, that's actually, like. *42:20-42:23* **Logan Moore**: It's kind of like Metroid's calling card in some sort of way, or it's at least the most distinct thing about this series on a gameplay level, I would say. *42:23-42:34* **Max Roberts**: Why can't Metric crawl? *42:33-42:34* **Logan Moore**: Why can't Metroid crawl? *42:35-42:37* **Max Roberts**: The morph ball is so vital, and I love the implementation here and what we'll see going forward with it. *42:38-42:46* **Max Roberts**: So *42:46-42:48* **Max Roberts**: It's great. *42:47-42:47* **Max Roberts**: The other, I think it's not really in the 2D games, but I think it's vital for Prime, and it's one of my favorite *42:48-42:59* **Max Roberts**: things is the visor itself and not only as a HUD and a world immersion thing, but I love switching between the visors. *42:57-43:06* **Max Roberts**: I love the scan visor. *43:06-43:07* **Max Roberts**: I like *43:08-43:10* **Max Roberts**: The x-ray and thermal visors could have better just visuals. *43:09-43:12* **Logan Moore**: I was going to say, the x-ray, yes, thermal's very harsh on the eyes. *43:11-43:17* **Max Roberts**: They're a little harsh on the eyes. *43:12-43:15* **Logan Moore**: The one area of *43:17-43:20* **Logan Moore**: Is it, uh, was it Fendrana Drifts, where you're like in the lab? *43:19-43:23* **Max Roberts**: Where you're in their base. *43:22-43:23* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it's hard. *43:23-43:25* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, that is that, dude. *43:24-43:26* **Max Roberts**: Hurts my eyeballs. *43:26-43:27* **Logan Moore**: I I went through that area about three times, I think, because I was going back to get some other things and *43:26-43:33* **Logan Moore**: One time I hit when I talked before about like hating backtracking certain things, there was at one point where I ran through the lab again, re-ran through it because I missed something there. *43:33-43:42* **Logan Moore**: Got out and I was like, okay, I don't think I have to go back there again. *43:42-43:45* **Logan Moore**: And then I found out there was an artifact in there. *43:45-43:47* **Max Roberts**: Back in there. *43:46-43:47* **Logan Moore**: I was like, are you kidding me? *43:47-43:48* **Logan Moore**: And I had to go back in there again. *43:49-43:50* **Logan Moore**: And I was like, I don't want to come to this area of the map ever again. *43:51-43:54* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, the thermal visuals are not great on the eyes. *43:55-44:00* **Logan Moore**: I think the *44:00-44:05* **Max Roberts**: It's cool at first, and then you're like, Oh, my they hurt. *44:00-44:04* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, so I I'm kind of I kind of differ with you. *44:03-44:08* **Logan Moore**: I I think the visors are not that great because I don't like the thermal one, and I feel like there's really only one distinct area of the game. *44:08-44:16* **Logan Moore**: Where they use it. *44:15-44:16* **Logan Moore**: Obviously, when you get to the end, there's some boss fights that implement it. *44:16-44:20* **Logan Moore**: The X-Ray one, same thing. *44:21-44:22* **Logan Moore**: I feel like there's just a couple. *44:23-44:25* **Logan Moore**: Two or three little areas where it's like, oh, yeah, there's some platforms here you just didn't know about. *44:25-44:29* **Logan Moore**: Here you go. *44:29-44:29* **Logan Moore**: And it's, I don't even feel like it makes much sense to be honest. *44:30-44:34* **Max Roberts**: They make the Chozo ghosts much easier, because you can track them the whole time. *44:34-44:38* **Logan Moore**: Like, like. *44:34-44:35* **Logan Moore**: They do, they do, yeah. *44:37-44:45* **Max Roberts**: That there that's a godsend there. *44:38-44:40* **Max Roberts**: I think they're just sci-fi cool in that way. *44:40-44:44* **Max Roberts**: It was like, ah, x-ray vision. *44:45-44:46* **Max Roberts**: And the cool thing, I mean, really, I want to use. *44:47-44:50* **Logan Moore**: What is the other one? *44:49-44:50* **Logan Moore**: What is the third one we're not talking about other than the scan scan visor, x-ray thermal, and then what's the fourth one? *44:50-44:57* **Max Roberts**: Scan visor. *44:52-44:55* **Max Roberts**: The normal one. *44:56-44:57* **Max Roberts**: There's not a Yeah, your regular visor. *44:58-45:01* **Logan Moore**: Oh, yeah, da da, yeah. *44:58-45:00* **Logan Moore**: No, no. *45:00-45:02* **Max Roberts**: So the other thing, though. *45:02-45:05* **Max Roberts**: for me is it reminds me what Dead Space would go on to do and other just kind of great *45:05-45:15* **Max Roberts**: Games where the HUD is in the world. *45:14-45:17* **Max Roberts**: It's just you li you're living in this world. *45:17-45:20* **Max Roberts**: And the visors is so vital to that. *45:20-45:22* **Max Roberts**: Not only are you looking through, you are in Samus' eyes *45:22-45:27* **Max Roberts**: the the visor fogs up or water hits it or you can see the steam coming off of the the arm cannon. *45:25-45:32* **Logan Moore**: You can see her own reflection in certain instances. *45:32-45:36* **Max Roberts**: But yes, sometimes when our eyes come through *45:32-45:40* **Logan Moore**: I mean, more than her eyes. *45:36-45:37* **Logan Moore**: You could see if you if you get big enough explosions going off in front of her face or something like that, you can see the whole reflection of her *45:37-45:45* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, you see the whole you can see her the bones in her hand in the cannon. *45:41-45:49* **Logan Moore**: Face in the visor, which is cool. *45:44-45:46* **Max Roberts**: If you're using the x-ray, I think everything in there is just, it all lends itself to building the world. *45:49-45:56* **Max Roberts**: The thermal visor, depending on what arm beam you have equipped, it. *45:56-46:01* **Max Roberts**: The color changes and reflects off of that. *46:02-46:04* **Max Roberts**: So if you got the ice one, it's in there and it's cold. *46:04-46:07* **Max Roberts**: And I really think *46:07-46:12* **Max Roberts**: The visors were vital to this transition from 2D to 3D. *46:10-46:15* **Max Roberts**: And I think they're a huge part of why this game is so revered is *46:16-46:24* **Max Roberts**: What they bring to the table in regards of immersion and feeling like you're in this world and in this game. *46:22-46:30* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, I I think the visors are a good aspect of it. *46:31-46:36* **Logan Moore**: I will say when I and whenever I found a new visor, I was like, oh, I don't want it. *46:36-46:40* **Logan Moore**: A new visor right now. *46:39-46:40* **Logan Moore**: Like, it was the one upgrade that I was always not super thrilled to get. *46:40-46:45* **Logan Moore**: Um, but *46:45-46:49* **Logan Moore**: They're good. *46:49-46:49* **Logan Moore**: They're a good element of this game. *46:51-46:52* **Logan Moore**: I don't think it's maybe as vital as you're saying it is. *46:52-46:55* **Logan Moore**: I like the scanning the most, though. *46:56-46:57* **Logan Moore**: I was definitely a scan junkie over the course. *46:57-47:02* **Max Roberts**: Scanning scanning is so cool and a a really neat way to do world building. *46:58-47:05* **Logan Moore**: It's kind of like a Pokedex type thing, which I like. *47:05-47:08* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, they're tricking you into reading a bunch of dialogue boxes, but you feel like you're exploring and learning about this world and the lore and the backstory and stuff. *47:07-47:17* **Max Roberts**: It's *47:17-47:20* **Max Roberts**: So neat. *47:18-47:19* **Max Roberts**: Apparently it's huge in Japan, like, as far as being received well, but then Americans apparently don't necessarily care for scanning and reading everything. *47:19-47:28* **Logan Moore**: One thing I wanted to say uh is that the HUD is very *47:28-47:36* **Logan Moore**: Invasive at first. *47:34-47:36* **Logan Moore**: It took me a couple hours to get sort of used to it because you're you are more cramped in that sense, like because the screen is *47:36-47:47* **Logan Moore**: taken up by the edges of her visor, like you don't have the full frame of you are seeing through a condensed perspective. *47:45-47:53* **Logan Moore**: And that was a little bit there was a hump that I had to get over with that. *47:54-47:58* **Logan Moore**: And I think more than anything, it was just *47:58-48:00* **Logan Moore**: Continue to play the game, and I obviously got used to it over time. *48:00-48:03* **Logan Moore**: But the early hours of the game, I did feel kind of like cramped, and I was like, it was like I was trying to blow up the field of view a little bit. *48:03-48:11* **Logan Moore**: I was like. *48:11-48:11* **Logan Moore**: I want to see more of my surroundings here, and I can't. *48:12-48:16* **Logan Moore**: But I think purely for like an aesthetic and like a *48:17-48:23* **Logan Moore**: Making you feel like you're Samus. *48:22-48:25* **Logan Moore**: I do think it is that much more engaging and kind of engrossing. *48:25-48:30* **Logan Moore**: One thing I wanted to mention, so we've kind of naturally touched on all of the, you know, the different abilities and upgrades you get over the course of the game and stuff like that. *48:30-48:38* **Logan Moore**: And this is something I talked to you about before we started doing this episode. *48:38-48:43* **Logan Moore**: But the way in which *48:44-48:48* **Logan Moore**: Samus loses her powers at the start of the game. *48:46-48:49* **Logan Moore**: Has to be one of the worst conceived ideas for like knocking you back to ground zero to then have to go get all the abilities. *48:50-49:00* **Logan Moore**: all over again. *49:00-49:00* **Logan Moore**: Because you've got it here in the notes and about how this game takes place after Zero Mission and Metroid, the original Metroid. *49:01-49:08* **Logan Moore**: So she is like a souped up bounty hunter at the start of this game, which is clearly seen in the first 10 to 15 minutes. *49:08-49:14* **Logan Moore**: But then for her to just get knocked against a wall and lose everything is so goofy. *49:14-49:21* **Max Roberts**: It is a apparently, at least on the Wikipedia page, it says an explosion damages Samus' suit. *49:21-49:27* **Max Roberts**: So the explosion is what does it. *49:28-49:29* **Max Roberts**: But it is very dumb. *49:29-49:30* **Logan Moore**: You should have just had her get a. *49:30-49:32* **Max Roberts**: It's like *49:30-49:33* **Logan Moore**: I think I feel like it would have been a better idea to just have her get like smacked around by Ridley or something. *49:32-49:36* **Logan Moore**: Like, just if you're gonna have her take damage and lose all her powers. *49:36-49:40* **Logan Moore**: Have it be against the main antagonist and boss of the game rather than just, oh no, an explosion, and I hit the back of this wall, and now I've lost everything. *49:41-49:51* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it's very *49:51-49:55* **Logan Moore**: It's *49:51-49:55* **Max Roberts**: It's very dumb, and I wanna I don't remember how they essentially do this reset in Echoes or Corruption either. *49:53-50:03* **Max Roberts**: Uh or even hunters. *50:04-50:06* **Logan Moore**: She just keeps keeps running into walls at the start of every game. *50:06-50:09* **Logan Moore**: Oh, this dang wall made me lose all my powers again. *50:09-50:13* **Max Roberts**: So I am curious to see how they handle that going forward, because that is one of the, I think, trickiest parts of a Metroid Mania is how do you introduce the player as powerful but then tease them with getting more powerful. *50:13-50:24* **Max Roberts**: And you know, the great examples would be *50:24-50:27* **Max Roberts**: Things like Super Metroid, where you're just naturally building and progressing in that world, or Symphony of the Night, where death shows up and takes your stuff. *50:27-50:34* **Max Roberts**: That's cool. *50:34-50:35* **Max Roberts**: So it's going to be interesting to see and study that going forward. *50:36-50:40* **Logan Moore**: Max, I want to talk about this story, but I want to do it *50:40-50:50* **Logan Moore**: I don't know if I played this game the right way, and that's to say, I don't. *50:49-50:53* **Logan Moore**: I read nothing that I scanned, absolutely nothing. *50:53-50:59* **Max Roberts**: Aww, you're scanning everything but n reading nothing. *50:56-50:59* **Max Roberts**: You did it wrong. *50:59-51:01* **Logan Moore**: I would read, I would read the enemies that I would scan. *51:00-51:05* **Max Roberts**: And I mean well, yeah, that helps you. *51:04-51:06* **Logan Moore**: The enemies and the items. *51:05-51:08* **Logan Moore**: I would read those because I thought those were interesting. *51:08-51:10* **Logan Moore**: But anytime it was like the Chozo, blah, blah, blah. *51:10-51:13* **Logan Moore**: I'm like, nope, don't care. *51:13-51:14* **Logan Moore**: Don't care. *51:14-51:14* **Logan Moore**: Just check him out now. *51:14-51:16* **Logan Moore**: You scanned a pirate log. *51:16-51:19* **Logan Moore**: And I'll say this too. *51:18-51:19* **Logan Moore**: One, I don't feel like this game does a great job of encouraging you to read those things because I feel like the moment you scan something, it should pop up and say, You just scanned this. *51:20-51:29* **Logan Moore**: Would you like to read it? *51:29-51:30* **Logan Moore**: Instead, *51:31-51:33* **Logan Moore**: What it does is it makes you go into the menu, figure out what you just scanned, and then read this the uh the log. *51:32-51:39* **Max Roberts**: Oh, I mean, you can do it that way. *51:39-51:42* **Max Roberts**: I just read it right there in the scam visor. *51:42-51:45* **Logan Moore**: You can do that? *51:45-51:46* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, you just hit A and you're just reading it. *51:46-51:49* **Logan Moore**: Oh, I guess the second it completed the scan, I like. *51:49-51:52* **Max Roberts**: You probably just let go. *51:52-51:53* **Logan Moore**: Let go of the scan button. *51:52-51:54* **Max Roberts**: If you just hold it, you can read it right there. *51:54-51:57* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *51:54-51:54* **Logan Moore**: Then that's probably just what I did accidentally. *51:55-51:57* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, you read it in the world it 'cause it is not cool that you would have to go dig into the menu and find it, because then it's like, well, where was I? *51:57-52:04* **Logan Moore**: Oh well. *51:58-51:59* **Max Roberts**: What log was this? *52:04-52:05* **Logan Moore**: I assumed I guess I just thought the second you scan something that it was like the scan is done, it's in your database. *52:04-52:12* **Logan Moore**: And then it's like, okay, well, Google press start. *52:12-52:15* **Max Roberts**: Mmm. *52:13-52:13* **Max Roberts**: No, you can read it right there in the world. *52:14-52:16* **Logan Moore**: Okay, once again, I'm stupid. *52:16-52:17* **Logan Moore**: At least I know that for the future, though, I guess, moving forward with these games. *52:18-52:22* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *52:20-52:21* **Max Roberts**: I the scam visor I've you know, I love reading lore. *52:21-52:26* **Max Roberts**: I love picking things up and and reading and exploring and *52:26-52:31* **Max Roberts**: learning more about the world. *52:29-52:30* **Max Roberts**: I think some of the the pirate data is very great because it's all written from the space pirate perspective and they're like some of them are offering like *52:30-52:40* **Max Roberts**: Extra bounty reward if you can kill the hunter. *52:38-52:41* **Max Roberts**: She's like this mythical creature to them of almost in a weird way, like Chief is to the to the um *52:41-52:51* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, for the grunts and and the covenant. *52:47-52:52* **Max Roberts**: Not the Spartans, yeah, but Covenant, thank you. *52:49-52:53* **Max Roberts**: You know, the same way of like, she is a threat and needs to be taken care of. *52:53-52:56* **Max Roberts**: Or when they figure out, so those space pirates that show up and have her beam type. *52:57-53:01* **Max Roberts**: The explanation for that is they've reversed engineered it, but their critical flaw is they're weak to that type of beam as well. *53:02-53:09* **Max Roberts**: So that's how the game teaches you. *53:09-53:12* **Max Roberts**: By you know, or all these omega pirates and all the experimentation they're doing. *53:13-53:17* **Max Roberts**: They're like, well, this is really great and they're super powerful, but also this is a critical weakness. *53:17-53:21* **Max Roberts**: And so you're learning that. *53:22-53:23* **Max Roberts**: Or the Chozo *53:23-53:27* **Max Roberts**: Lore things where you're learning about the Chozo came to Talon 4 and this this meteor crashed, and this dark matter essentially was like coming out of the planet and killing everything. *53:25-53:35* **Max Roberts**: And so the Chozo basically *53:35-53:40* **Max Roberts**: We're trying to contain everything and stop this corruption not to use the t subtitle of the third game, but t from spreading throughout the galaxy. *53:38-53:46* **Max Roberts**: And the space pirates are coming in to mutate and build up their power and rule the galaxy. *53:46-53:52* **Max Roberts**: So it's this cool just learning about these different cultures and things without the game just talking to you, because it is optional. *53:52-53:59* **Max Roberts**: You can scan it, read it, or move on. *53:59-54:01* **Max Roberts**: And *54:02-54:05* **Max Roberts**: While the environments do tell a story, I think it's more of the current occupation story of the space pirates. *54:03-54:10* **Max Roberts**: So you can see the infrastructure they're building, the labs, the mutations, the mining. *54:10-54:15* **Max Roberts**: All of that's kind of current. *54:15-54:17* **Max Roberts**: The Chozo runes don't necessarily tell like why are the Chozo not here, but there's there's all these lore reasons. *54:17-54:25* **Max Roberts**: The ghosts are there as trials for this prophesized hero. *54:25-54:29* **Max Roberts**: The Chozo essentially were enlightened to a degree and they could see into the future. *54:30-54:34* **Max Roberts**: They were getting visions and stuff. *54:34-54:35* **Max Roberts**: And so it's all super fascinating. *54:35-54:38* **Max Roberts**: This mixture of religion and science fiction. *54:38-54:40* **Max Roberts**: And it's, you know, it's one of those types of *54:41-54:44* **Max Roberts**: Cool marriages. *54:43-54:44* **Max Roberts**: So, yeah, you did, you did do this one, Ron. *54:44-54:47* **Logan Moore**: Well, here's what I'll say, and this is kind of the spin I can put on this from a story perspective. *54:47-54:53* **Logan Moore**: I think the game does a good enough job. *54:53-54:56* **Logan Moore**: Solely from a visual component, that everything you've said I've kind of broadly understood. *54:56-55:02* **Logan Moore**: Like, just the different areas that you are going through. *55:02-55:06* **Logan Moore**: Like, okay, now I'm in a space pirate lab, and clearly they're doing research here. *55:06-55:10* **Logan Moore**: This is where I'm starting to see the Metroids and stuff like that. *55:10-55:12* **Logan Moore**: So, okay, clearly the Space Pirates have been doing research on the Metroids, and there's a lot of this type of stuff going on here. *55:12-55:20* **Logan Moore**: And the Chozo, and they're they're *55:20-55:24* **Logan Moore**: They're spread all throughout the game and they have a large impact on this. *55:22-55:25* **Logan Moore**: Like, purely from a visual and gameplay perspective, like, I understood the broad beats of what was happening. *55:25-55:34* **Logan Moore**: Now did I ever understand every *55:34-55:37* **Logan Moore**: Piece of background history and lore that was dropped. *55:37-55:39* **Logan Moore**: No, because I was stupid and I didn't read the logs like I apparently could have and should have right there in the moment. *55:40-55:46* **Logan Moore**: But I think that this game's like, and you can probably speak to this, is that it really does go hand in hand. *55:48-55:55* **Logan Moore**: It's kind of like *55:55-55:58* **Logan Moore**: Okay, and to draw this comparison up, it's kind of like Dark Souls. *55:57-56:00* **Logan Moore**: Like, I feel like there's a lot of narrative and universe, and like *56:00-56:07* **Logan Moore**: A lot of imagery and stuff within the Dark Souls games, where you can kind of piece together what has happened in certain parts of that world without having to, you know, dig deep into the item descriptions and get the *56:05-56:19* **Logan Moore**: Background and the lore of all these things that have been going on. *56:17-56:20* **Logan Moore**: It is a very gameplay-first experience. *56:20-56:23* **Logan Moore**: Um, that they then do fill in the gaps for you if you want it. *56:23-56:27* **Logan Moore**: And for me, I don't feel I'll say this like *56:27-56:31* **Logan Moore**: I don't feel like my experience was lesser or like I robbed myself of anything because I didn't dig super deeply into the *56:30-56:41* **Logan Moore**: And did the various logs and the various things that I was scanning. *56:40-56:42* **Logan Moore**: And I and I'm not should say this, I didn't like not read none of them whatsoever, but because of, I guess, the dumb way that I was *56:43-56:52* **Logan Moore**: Unlocking them. *56:50-56:51* **Logan Moore**: I didn't know which one was which. *56:51-56:53* **Logan Moore**: And it's like, what did I just get? *56:53-56:55* **Logan Moore**: So I do like that they put gameplay first, though, above everything else. *56:55-57:00* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, that is a bit cumbersome. *56:55-56:57* **Logan Moore**: And that's very *57:00-57:04* **Logan Moore**: That's very intrinsically Nintendo, and in a lot of ways, this is how I think a lot of their games are. *57:03-57:08* **Logan Moore**: Mario's kind of the same way, and Zelda, maybe not as much Zelda, honestly. *57:08-57:14* **Max Roberts**: Well, I think so. *57:12-57:14* **Max Roberts**: Like, look at Breath of the Wild, uh, get off the Great Plateau and just go. *57:14-57:18* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, you're immediately Yeah. *57:18-57:23* **Max Roberts**: And sure, the story is, like, there, but you can just do whatever you want. *57:18-57:23* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, th I mean they they they do a good job of putting gameplay first before everything else, which can't be said for *57:23-57:30* **Logan Moore**: A lot of other games out there, especially games, like that is like the thing that makes me not want to play so many other games. *57:30-57:37* **Logan Moore**: That's a completely different tangent, but *57:37-57:41* **Logan Moore**: Gotta be engaging up front. *57:40-57:41* **Logan Moore**: You gotta find a way to sink your teeth into the player quickly. *57:41-57:45* **Logan Moore**: And I think this game does *57:46-57:49* **Logan Moore**: A great job with that for sure. *57:47-57:49* **Logan Moore**: But that being said, I will definitely read more of the intrigues moving forward in these games. *57:50-57:54* **Max Roberts**: You should, dude. *57:53-57:54* **Max Roberts**: I can't speak to Federation Force, but the rest of the games do have lore and things to scan. *57:56-58:01* **Logan Moore**: Well, that's why I said up front at the start of this episode that like you're kind of the *58:00-58:08* **Logan Moore**: Quote unquote expert here, and like you're the more experienced player, and so you can kind of show me where I've gone wrong here from the earliest episode. *58:06-58:16* **Max Roberts**: Well, at least, yeah, we cor we've corrected this for future games. *58:16-58:19* **Max Roberts**: You'll be able to enjoy, I think, the the rest of the mainline stuff a lot more. *58:19-58:23* **Logan Moore**: I want to talk. *58:24-58:26* **Logan Moore**: There's a couple other. *58:27-58:28* **Logan Moore**: I don't know where to go next because there's some other like larger beats that I are larger things with this game that I want to touch on. *58:29-58:35* **Logan Moore**: You know, the music and stuff like that is a big thing. *58:35-58:39* **Logan Moore**: But I did want to run through here and talk about some of my own little. *58:39-58:43* **Logan Moore**: Notes that I made, if that's okay with you, and maybe we can talk about some of these things as well. *58:44-58:49* **Max Roberts**: By all means. *58:46-58:47* **Logan Moore**: I think one area we talked about the map before, and I think the map largely is very good in this game. *58:50-58:57* **Logan Moore**: I do have quite a few issues with it, though, at the same time. *58:57-59:02* **Logan Moore**: I think it does a good job of laying out the environments in pretty great depth and showing you *59:02-59:10* **Logan Moore**: Like the verticality to all of them specifically. *59:08-59:11* **Logan Moore**: But I wish the game told you the percentage complete that you were in each of the five areas of the game because a lot it only tells you your broad percentage. *59:11-59:20* **Logan Moore**: Like, you have this much percent. *59:20-59:21* **Logan Moore**: It's like, cool, but like. *59:21-59:22* **Logan Moore**: Where have I, what have I cleared out the most here? *59:22-59:25* **Logan Moore**: And I think if it told me that, then I would have been a little bit more encouraged to *59:25-59:32* **Logan Moore**: Explore the world. *59:30-59:31* **Logan Moore**: Not only, and then outside of the beam doors, I don't feel like the game really does a great job of telling you. *59:31-59:39* **Logan Moore**: When you've come across certain things that you then need to come back to later. *59:40-59:43* **Logan Moore**: Because I could always remember, like, you mentioned before that, like, they really bait you. *59:44-59:49* **Logan Moore**: With the grapple beam for a good eight to ten hours. *59:50-59:53* **Logan Moore**: And then you finally get it, and you're like, finally, I have the grapple beam. *59:53-59:56* **Logan Moore**: And then the second I got it, I was like. *59:56-59:58* **Logan Moore**: My mind goes blank. *59:58-59:59* **Logan Moore**: I'm like, oh my gosh, I've seen like eight of these. *59:59-01:00:01* **Logan Moore**: Where are they at? *01:00:01-01:00:02* **Logan Moore**: Like, then I was like, yeah, then it was a process of me trying to scrape back through my brain and remember where I had seen all of these things. *01:00:02-01:00:10* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, where do I go? *01:00:03-01:00:04* **Logan Moore**: And I'm like, combing over the map. *01:00:11-01:00:12* **Logan Moore**: I'm like, *01:00:12-01:00:13* **Logan Moore**: Like, I think there was one here. *01:00:12-01:00:14* **Logan Moore**: So I feel like the map could have still been more detailed. *01:00:15-01:00:18* **Logan Moore**: We kind of talked about this with one of the early Resident Evil games as well. *01:00:18-01:00:21* **Logan Moore**: Like, there's not, and the Resident Evil games got better in that regard over time. *01:00:21-01:00:24* **Logan Moore**: Like, *01:00:24-01:00:27* **Logan Moore**: Okay, you've got this key, cool. *01:00:25-01:00:26* **Logan Moore**: This key goes here, and you've come across this. *01:00:26-01:00:28* **Logan Moore**: If you've come across a door that has a a spade on it, and then you get the spade key, you're gonna know where you need to go rather than just needing to randomly. *01:00:29-01:00:39* **Logan Moore**: Check all the doors because you can't remember which one that goes to. *01:00:38-01:00:41* **Logan Moore**: That's kind of how I feel here as well. *01:00:41-01:00:43* **Logan Moore**: I feel like the map could be labeled better with the things you are getting because it is so. *01:00:43-01:00:49* **Logan Moore**: And I know a lot of other Metroid games don't do that, but it is so strict. *01:00:50-01:00:55* **Logan Moore**: It's so strictly like you need these. *01:00:56-01:00:58* **Logan Moore**: Things to move on in the game rather than like something like Zelda, where I feel like it's just like, oh, if you remember that you came across this, you can come back here and you'll get a piece of heart or something like that. *01:00:59-01:01:08* **Logan Moore**: With this, it's like, no, you were hard stopping you from advancing. *01:01:09-01:01:13* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *01:01:09-01:01:10* **Logan Moore**: Until you get these items, and then you k and then you can't remember where they're at sometimes. *01:01:13-01:01:18* **Max Roberts**: Until you and you have to come back. *01:01:13-01:01:16* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I totally agree. *01:01:18-01:01:20* **Max Roberts**: I so the big difference I think here is between a 2D Metroid and a 3D Metroid is like in the 2D games you know how much of the room you have *01:01:20-01:01:30* **Max Roberts**: Explored because it's visually represented as in filled in and not filled in, like a colored in space. *01:01:28-01:01:34* **Max Roberts**: And this is as soon as you enter a room, it's all orange. *01:01:34-01:01:37* **Max Roberts**: And I don't think you could do that kind of coloring it in in three D, at least very easily on the GameCube. *01:01:36-01:01:42* **Max Roberts**: Today, that that might be something more doable. *01:01:42-01:01:45* **Max Roberts**: So, how do you, you know, the problem becomes how do you represent percentage and completion in a room visually? *01:01:45-01:01:53* **Max Roberts**: And I don't know the answer to that. *01:01:54-01:01:55* **Max Roberts**: I do wish. *01:01:55-01:01:57* **Logan Moore**: Well, more often than not, I was just going to say if you found a map and then like you saw connecting areas to a certain room, it's like, okay, well, I clearly haven't been this direction. *01:01:56-01:02:06* **Max Roberts**: Yes, but as soon as you but as soon as you enter those rooms, and then if you've got a backtrack later, yeah. *01:02:05-01:02:12* **Logan Moore**: So I'm going to push into these *01:02:06-01:02:10* **Logan Moore**: They're totally filled up, yeah. *01:02:10-01:02:12* **Max Roberts**: I do think like having individual world percentages would have been great in the remaster. *01:02:13-01:02:21* **Max Roberts**: Something to add a quality of life improvement that would have actually been really great. *01:02:21-01:02:26* **Max Roberts**: That would have been nice. *01:02:26-01:02:28* **Max Roberts**: I will say, I think this is one of the great 3D maps of all time. *01:02:28-01:02:34* **Max Roberts**: At the very least, one of the most memorable. *01:02:35-01:02:36* **Max Roberts**: The design of it is so visually striking. *01:02:37-01:02:39* **Max Roberts**: and I think cool and engaging. *01:02:40-01:02:42* **Max Roberts**: I'm a huge sucker for maps. *01:02:43-01:02:44* **Max Roberts**: As a kid, my room was map themed. *01:02:44-01:02:47* **Max Roberts**: Like I had maps on the wall. *01:02:48-01:02:49* **Max Roberts**: I had a map rug, like o of the globe, I had a world atlas on the w *01:02:49-01:02:54* **Logan Moore**: Was this your favorite character from Door the Explorer as well? *01:02:53-01:02:56* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, I love the map, you know. *01:02:56-01:02:57* **Max Roberts**: I love the map, I love the map. *01:02:58-01:02:59* **Max Roberts**: So I love maps, and this is one of my all-time favorites in general of the game world. *01:03:00-01:03:05* **Max Roberts**: So I just *01:03:05-01:03:08* **Max Roberts**: I love hitting the button, pulling it up, and zooming and whipping and flipping around. *01:03:06-01:03:10* **Max Roberts**: My big thing though, and I've always had this issue with this game, is *01:03:11-01:03:17* **Max Roberts**: The connection between the worlds in the map. *01:03:16-01:03:19* **Logan Moore**: Yes, I'm glad you I was I was glad you were going to say this. *01:03:18-01:03:22* **Max Roberts**: It is like, yeah, yeah, this is my big thing with it because I think you should be able to drill into it. *01:03:19-01:03:25* **Max Roberts**: Like, if you're at this elevator, like, you should just be able to push the A button. *01:03:25-01:03:29* **Max Roberts**: And it takes you to where it is in the next world. *01:03:29-01:03:31* **Logan Moore**: Completely agree. *01:03:29-01:03:31* **Max Roberts**: Because it it's like the North the Fendrana North elevator takes you to Talon South. *01:03:32-01:03:38* **Logan Moore**: Completely agree. *01:03:32-01:03:33* **Max Roberts**: And it's like, well. *01:03:38-01:03:39* **Max Roberts**: And then you've got to look at the compass to see where you are. *01:03:39-01:03:42* **Max Roberts**: And it's is this the north elevator or the south? *01:03:42-01:03:44* **Max Roberts**: That is my big inside the individual environments, maps great. *01:03:45-01:03:49* **Max Roberts**: Connecting between them, very tricky. *01:03:49-01:03:52* **Logan Moore**: I agree. *01:03:50-01:03:51* **Max Roberts**: And I'm not a fan of that at all. *01:03:52-01:03:54* **Logan Moore**: You stole. *01:03:54-01:03:55* **Logan Moore**: I mean, that that was literally the exact next thing I was going to say. *01:03:55-01:03:59* **Logan Moore**: Totally. *01:03:59-01:04:00* **Logan Moore**: Feel the exact same way because that drove eventually, those things, like you said, kind of like lose their meaning, like Magmore North. *01:04:00-01:04:06* **Logan Moore**: And it's like, dude, like, okay, but where is this taking me? *01:04:06-01:04:09* **Max Roberts**: But where is North? *01:04:09-01:04:10* **Logan Moore**: Like, I was going to say. *01:04:10-01:04:12* **Max Roberts**: This map is a 3D representation of space. *01:04:10-01:04:13* **Logan Moore**: I was gonna yes, it's like and then sometimes I would get on and it would spit me out in like a part of the *01:04:13-01:04:24* **Max Roberts**: There is a compass, but that's dependent on your orientation. *01:04:13-01:04:17* **Max Roberts**: It's just it's really difficult to *01:04:17-01:04:20* **Max Roberts**: Connect it. *01:04:20-01:04:21* **Logan Moore**: The area that I'm going to that I'm like, oh, I don't want to go here because then, and then it's like I'm backtracking even more. *01:04:23-01:04:29* **Logan Moore**: It's yes, there are annoyances like that. *01:04:29-01:04:32* **Logan Moore**: And I do, like I said. *01:04:32-01:04:34* **Logan Moore**: Previously, I it's so much easier, I think, to I mean, this is really that I can think of, is this the first game that has ever, like, tried a Metroidvania style in this *01:04:34-01:04:48* **Logan Moore**: Sort of 3D environment. *01:04:46-01:04:47* **Logan Moore**: I mean, obviously, Zelda games are kind of adjacent. *01:04:47-01:04:52* **Max Roberts**: I can't speak to it being the first. *01:04:49-01:04:51* **Max Roberts**: It's certainly one of, if not the first, most successful. *01:04:52-01:04:55* **Logan Moore**: I mean, 2002. *01:04:53-01:04:55* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, I mean, I still can't think of many other games that. *01:04:55-01:04:58* **Max Roberts**: We'll find out if Castlevania Sixty four is anything like that. *01:04:58-01:05:02* **Logan Moore**: Maybe. *01:05:02-01:05:02* **Logan Moore**: I guess we'll see. *01:05:03-01:05:04* **Logan Moore**: Eight months from now, whenever we play that game or whatever. *01:05:04-01:05:06* **Logan Moore**: So I think there's just, I guess what I'm saying in that regard, though, is like *01:05:07-01:05:13* **Logan Moore**: There are growing pains to it, and I'm curious to see if these things get alleviated over time as we do go to play hunters and two and three, and I'm not. *01:05:11-01:05:20* **Max Roberts**: Hunters, I know that's not a huge issue because each is a different planet basically, so you're isolated that way. *01:05:19-01:05:27* **Logan Moore**: That was the other thing, too, and maybe this is kind of a tangent, but I've played Corruption, obviously, and I know there's different planets in that game. *01:05:26-01:05:34* **Max Roberts**: That's planets. *01:05:32-01:05:33* **Logan Moore**: And so I was like four hours into this game, and I'm like, when am I leaving? *01:05:35-01:05:40* **Logan Moore**: Like, when am I going to fly to somewhere else? *01:05:40-01:05:42* **Logan Moore**: Like it took me a bit until I was like, Oh, wait, the whole game is just here. *01:05:43-01:05:48* **Max Roberts**: You're stuck here, sir. *01:05:45-01:05:47* **Logan Moore**: Never mind. *01:05:48-01:05:49* **Logan Moore**: Um, so that's a weird little thing I was struggling with as somebody who had played *01:05:50-01:05:57* **Logan Moore**: Corruption previously. *01:05:56-01:05:57* **Logan Moore**: I mentioned this previously, and I wanted to come back and touch on it because I said I would, and this is just a small thing. *01:05:58-01:06:02* **Logan Moore**: We don't need to spend a lot of time on it. *01:06:02-01:06:04* **Logan Moore**: The way the game doles out some of the power-ups and the health and stuff like that once you kill enemies was really annoying me because there were a couple instances where I needed. *01:06:04-01:06:13* **Logan Moore**: Specific pickups. *01:06:13-01:06:14* **Logan Moore**: There was one part where I specifically needed power bombs to get through to the next area. *01:06:15-01:06:22* **Logan Moore**: And I had run out of them, and enemies or boxes or whatever will just drop them. *01:06:22-01:06:27* **Logan Moore**: But for some reason, and I looked this up, and people were talking about it online. *01:06:28-01:06:31* **Logan Moore**: There's something in the game that prioritizes like health first, then missiles, then power bombs. *01:06:31-01:06:38* **Logan Moore**: And so I basically had to. *01:06:39-01:06:41* **Logan Moore**: Keep killing enemies until I maxed out my health, maxed out my missiles, and then it would start more frequently dropping power bombs. *01:06:41-01:06:48* **Logan Moore**: And that's not to say it never drops them. *01:06:49-01:06:51* **Logan Moore**: But it's a lower percentage drop rate compared to the other things because it's like, oh, well, you don't have full health. *01:06:51-01:06:56* **Logan Moore**: You probably need help. *01:06:56-01:06:57* **Logan Moore**: We're going to keep dropping that for you. *01:06:57-01:06:59* **Logan Moore**: And so that started to bother me because I straight up like. *01:06:59-01:07:04* **Logan Moore**: Needed the power bombs to advance in the game. *01:07:04-01:07:07* **Logan Moore**: Whereas, you know, missiles, it's like I got 110 of them, and it's still like, here, how about some missiles? *01:07:08-01:07:13* **Logan Moore**: It's like, no, I don't need any more of these right now. *01:07:13-01:07:17* **Logan Moore**: So that was, I mean, that was not like a huge issue throughout the overall game, but it was like a 20 to 30 minute stretch there where I was getting very. *01:07:17-01:07:25* **Logan Moore**: Frustrated with it because it was not giving me what I needed when I needed it. *01:07:26-01:07:30* **Logan Moore**: And there was no easy way to fill that back up. *01:07:31-01:07:34* **Logan Moore**: Like, you're like, oh, just go to a save point. *01:07:34-01:07:36* **Logan Moore**: I'm like, it's not going to fill up my power bombs. *01:07:36-01:07:38* **Max Roberts**: Yes, so I did realize that later. *01:07:38-01:07:41* **Logan Moore**: Like, I have to get a drop. *01:07:38-01:07:40* **Logan Moore**: So that was very annoying. *01:07:41-01:07:43* **Logan Moore**: I don't know if you had that same problem, but that was just something I wanted to mention here briefly. *01:07:43-01:07:49* **Max Roberts**: I did not. *01:07:47-01:07:48* **Max Roberts**: I always was just skitting what I needed. *01:07:49-01:07:51* **Logan Moore**: Lastly, there's just some Metroidisms in this game that I feel like are unique to Metroid that I have never seen in other *01:07:51-01:08:05* **Max Roberts**: Never yeah. *01:07:52-01:07:53* **Logan Moore**: Metroidvania games or games of this type. *01:08:03-01:08:05* **Logan Moore**: Like, one of the Chozo artifacts, I think, is tucked away in a room that you have to blow up with a missile or something like that. *01:08:06-01:08:12* **Logan Moore**: You have to blow away a wall and you get in there. *01:08:13-01:08:15* **Logan Moore**: But the wall, there's no *01:08:15-01:08:18* **Logan Moore**: Indicators of like what the wall is. *01:08:18-01:08:21* **Logan Moore**: It's in Fondrana Drifts, I think, or it's in the *01:08:21-01:08:27* **Max Roberts**: You have to x-ray it, don't you? *01:08:24-01:08:26* **Logan Moore**: No, it doesn't show up x-rayed. *01:08:26-01:08:28* **Logan Moore**: It doesn't show up thermal. *01:08:28-01:08:29* **Logan Moore**: Because I checked this before I blew it up. *01:08:29-01:08:32* **Max Roberts**: Oh, it's the one at the top, right? *01:08:31-01:08:34* **Logan Moore**: And there's like in the waterfall area, there is nothing indicative that you need to blow up that wall and the clue, but that room is huge. *01:08:35-01:08:44* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, yeah, yeah. *01:08:35-01:08:36* **Max Roberts**: The only thing indicative of it would have been the clue. *01:08:38-01:08:41* **Logan Moore**: And it's like, how am I supposed to? *01:08:45-01:08:46* **Max Roberts**: I think it says something like at the top or something. *01:08:45-01:08:48* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, but there's a couple different areas where, like, but then this comes back to what I was saying before. *01:08:48-01:08:52* **Logan Moore**: It's like, you have a finite number of power bombs if you start dropping them in the wrong areas. *01:08:52-01:08:58* **Logan Moore**: And then you gotta go run around and kill enemies and get them to drop more power bomb ammo if you don't have any. *01:08:58-01:09:02* **Logan Moore**: That drove me crazy. *01:09:03-01:09:04* **Logan Moore**: Like, I get that's just one little thing, but other Metro games have done that. *01:09:04-01:09:09* **Logan Moore**: Like, there's no indicator. *01:09:09-01:09:11* **Logan Moore**: And some of these games of what you need to do and what you need to blow up. *01:09:12-01:09:15* **Logan Moore**: And that was, I mentioned before that I had played Samus Returns. *01:09:15-01:09:19* **Logan Moore**: That was one good thing about that game, is that it always told you what in the environment you could blow up or what you could interact with. *01:09:19-01:09:25* **Logan Moore**: And for the most part, I feel like this game was pretty good about that. *01:09:26-01:09:30* **Logan Moore**: Like, if you would see a certain structure that was made of *01:09:30-01:09:36* **Logan Moore**: Bavarium or something weird like that. *01:09:35-01:09:37* **Logan Moore**: I can't remember the exact name. *01:09:37-01:09:38* **Logan Moore**: Like, that was always the thing you could blow up with the power bombs. *01:09:39-01:09:42* **Logan Moore**: I don't know. *01:09:43-01:09:43* **Logan Moore**: I thought that was a little. *01:09:43-01:09:44* **Logan Moore**: I thought there was just a couple little odd moments like that in the game where I'm like, dude, if I was not like. *01:09:45-01:09:51* **Logan Moore**: If I didn't have a guide off to the side that I could con consult, like, to give me a hand every now and then, I that that would that would have been way more aggravating to me. *01:09:51-01:10:00* **Logan Moore**: So *01:10:00-01:10:03* **Logan Moore**: Did you have any issues like that? *01:10:01-01:10:02* **Logan Moore**: I know you've obviously played this game before, but you also didn't use a guide. *01:10:03-01:10:05* **Logan Moore**: I don't know if you had any. *01:10:06-01:10:07* **Max Roberts**: No. *01:10:07-01:10:08* **Max Roberts**: I really I've I found that when I was looking for something, I either went and explored it and tried to figure it out and *01:10:08-01:10:17* **Max Roberts**: if it wasn't power um like ability restricted I could figure it out or I just read the clues like in the game so I do think the game does a good enough job of *01:10:16-01:10:27* **Max Roberts**: At least as a near 30-year-old adult, of figuring out where to go. *01:10:25-01:10:30* **Max Roberts**: Now, as a kid, I'm almost positive I used a guide. *01:10:30-01:10:34* **Max Roberts**: Certainly. *01:10:35-01:10:35* **Max Roberts**: And the game doesn't even tell you that you need all of the artifacts to beat the game until you're at the end of the game. *01:10:35-01:10:42* **Max Roberts**: And then it's like, oh. *01:10:42-01:10:43* **Max Roberts**: Make sure you get all these so you can go down here. *01:10:43-01:10:45* **Max Roberts**: So there are some things in the world that don't just outright tell you what to do. *01:10:45-01:10:50* **Max Roberts**: So it's hard for me to gauge that because I played it before and I'm certainly more competent than I was 20 years ago. *01:10:50-01:10:57* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *01:10:54-01:10:55* **Max Roberts**: But I didn't have any real problems with figuring out or running out of power-ups or figuring out where certain abilities or things were. *01:10:59-01:11:08* **Max Roberts**: So I just kind of coasted on through. *01:11:08-01:11:12* **Max Roberts**: I only died once, I only got one game over. *01:11:12-01:11:14* **Logan Moore**: I did it a couple times, but *01:11:15-01:11:21* **Max Roberts**: In the phase on mines, right before you get to the first save room. *01:11:17-01:11:21* **Logan Moore**: I maybe died like once or twice. *01:11:21-01:11:23* **Logan Moore**: Oh, right before you get to that's brutal. *01:11:23-01:11:25* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:11:23-01:11:24* **Max Roberts**: That was brutal. *01:11:25-01:11:26* **Logan Moore**: That's a long trek. *01:11:25-01:11:27* **Max Roberts**: That was really hard. *01:11:26-01:11:26* **Max Roberts**: I had to do the mines all over again. *01:11:26-01:11:28* **Max Roberts**: It was not fun. *01:11:28-01:11:29* **Logan Moore**: That's a long trek down there. *01:11:28-01:11:31* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *01:11:30-01:11:30* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, that was not a good time. *01:11:30-01:11:32* **Max Roberts**: Because that enemy is invisible and you can't lock onto it and you don't have the X-ray visor by that point. *01:11:32-01:11:36* **Max Roberts**: So it's it was not fun. *01:11:36-01:11:39* **Logan Moore**: The last thing I wanted to ask you just comes with collectibles, and I *01:11:39-01:11:47* **Logan Moore**: I know for a fact I've talked about this on our old podcast, Millennial Gaming Speak, maybe in regards to Super Metroid, but I still feel the same way here. *01:11:47-01:11:55* **Logan Moore**: How do you feel? *01:11:56-01:11:57* **Logan Moore**: When it comes to getting all the collectibles, because compared when I play a lot of Metroidvania games, I find myself wanting to get 100% completion, get everything in the world, get every *01:11:57-01:12:08* **Logan Moore**: Scrap is explore every nook and cranny. *01:12:06-01:12:09* **Logan Moore**: And I never feel like that with Metroid games. *01:12:09-01:12:12* **Logan Moore**: And the reason is just because I think the rewards they are giving you are not *01:12:12-01:12:19* **Max Roberts**: Missiles and Elf. *01:12:18-01:12:19* **Logan Moore**: Great. *01:12:18-01:12:18* **Logan Moore**: It's just, yeah, health is great. *01:12:19-01:12:21* **Logan Moore**: Health, I went out of my way to get max health in the game. *01:12:21-01:12:24* **Logan Moore**: But then when I checked after that, because I knew I was about to go fight Ridley in the game, I was like, okay, well, let me see here. *01:12:24-01:12:29* **Logan Moore**: What do I still need? *01:12:29-01:12:30* **Logan Moore**: I was like. *01:12:30-01:12:31* **Logan Moore**: I need another energy cell or two. *01:12:31-01:12:32* **Logan Moore**: I'm going to go out of my way to go get those. *01:12:32-01:12:34* **Logan Moore**: And then I was still at like 75% done. *01:12:34-01:12:37* **Logan Moore**: And I was like, dude, I do not care enough. *01:12:37-01:12:40* **Logan Moore**: Like, at some point, like. *01:12:40-01:12:42* **Logan Moore**: I have 150 missiles. *01:12:43-01:12:45* **Logan Moore**: I don't need 200. *01:12:45-01:12:46* **Logan Moore**: Like, you know, like, it just keeps ratcheting up. *01:12:46-01:12:49* **Logan Moore**: And I don't feel like that's enticing at all. *01:12:49-01:12:51* **Logan Moore**: And I feel like these games could be more. *01:12:52-01:12:53* **Logan Moore**: Enticing to kind of push for it. *01:12:54-01:12:56* **Logan Moore**: There needs to be a balance, though. *01:12:56-01:12:57* **Logan Moore**: Obviously, you don't want to have it to where you feel like you are. *01:12:57-01:13:02* **Logan Moore**: Encouraged to get 100% completion or something like that. *01:13:03-01:13:06* **Logan Moore**: It really is just kind of an extra bonus if you do go out of your way to find everything. *01:13:06-01:13:10* **Logan Moore**: But *01:13:11-01:13:14* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, like missiles and bombs. *01:13:12-01:13:13* **Logan Moore**: Like, after a while, it's like, okay, I think I'm kind of topped off here, and I don't need to go spend two or three hours just to increase my missile reserves that much more, you know. *01:13:14-01:13:25* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, the problem is it's they feel fine and are rewarding during the game when you're still getting all the other power-ups because it's they're intermixed. *01:13:25-01:13:35* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, like in the moment, yes. *01:13:34-01:13:36* **Max Roberts**: But then when you have everything as far as key crucial abilities, then it is just missiles and health and *01:13:36-01:13:47* **Max Roberts**: You're like, well, I don't, I have a hundred missiles. *01:13:45-01:13:47* **Max Roberts**: I'm okay. *01:13:47-01:13:48* **Max Roberts**: And so I do feel the same way. *01:13:49-01:13:50* **Max Roberts**: And same thing with power bombs. *01:13:51-01:13:52* **Max Roberts**: I think I only found a couple of them. *01:13:52-01:13:54* **Max Roberts**: One thing I like that this game does do is those missile perks for the different beams, which were not required to beat the game they are in different spots. *01:13:54-01:14:04* **Logan Moore**: Yes. *01:14:01-01:14:01* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, those are cool. *01:14:02-01:14:03* **Max Roberts**: So those were cool to stumble across and felt like good rewards. *01:14:04-01:14:08* **Max Roberts**: I just don't know the counterpoint is or the counterexample is Castlevania, where there's just so many different types of weapons you can wield: swords, shields, armor. *01:14:08-01:14:19* **Max Roberts**: Like the diversity of what you can get to complete the game 100% is more prevalent there. *01:14:19-01:14:26* **Max Roberts**: And I'm just not sure. *01:14:26-01:14:28* **Logan Moore**: And this is not that type of game, and I'm fine with that generally, but I think at the same time, like *01:14:26-01:14:35* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:14:29-01:14:29* **Logan Moore**: When I got to the end of this game, I was shocked by how many more collectibles that I left out in the world, and I didn't really feel like I was missing anything. *01:14:33-01:14:41* **Logan Moore**: Like, that's where the disparity is for me. *01:14:41-01:14:44* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:14:44-01:14:44* **Max Roberts**: I I think the other part is the scan stuff. *01:14:45-01:14:47* **Max Roberts**: Like scan data counts toward completion percentage in this game, and that is *01:14:48-01:14:53* **Max Roberts**: I think that's a fun thing to do. *01:14:52-01:14:54* **Max Roberts**: But it is, I'm also not going to go out of my way at the end of the game to like go *01:14:55-01:15:02* **Max Roberts**: fill up the the encyclopedia essentially. *01:15:00-01:15:03* **Max Roberts**: So it is kind of a you gotta want the hundred percent, and that's kind of the only incentive to pursue getting all your missiles and stuff. *01:15:03-01:15:13* **Logan Moore**: Area percentages would have been they could have maybe they could have they could have really tempted me maybe in that way. *01:15:13-01:15:20* **Max Roberts**: That really would have helped. *01:15:16-01:15:18* **Logan Moore**: Because then if I'm like, oh well *01:15:20-01:15:23* **Max Roberts**: Because if you're like, I'm at ninety percent *01:15:21-01:15:28* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, it's like, oh, and Finjana drifts, I've got 95% of everything. *01:15:23-01:15:26* **Logan Moore**: Well, what if I just made it 100%? *01:15:26-01:15:28* **Logan Moore**: Like, then it's like they're kind of like. *01:15:28-01:15:30* **Max Roberts**: Number go up. *01:15:29-01:15:30* **Max Roberts**: Number feel good. *01:15:31-01:15:32* **Logan Moore**: Yes, they're kind of encouraging me in that way, but when it's like the whole world is laid out before me, it's like you got 74%. *01:15:31-01:15:37* **Logan Moore**: It's like, dude. *01:15:37-01:15:39* **Logan Moore**: I don't care. *01:15:39-01:15:40* **Logan Moore**: You're not going to help me with this last 26% by like telling me where I need to kind of look, so I'm not even going to bother. *01:15:40-01:15:46* **Logan Moore**: All right, Max, last thing I wanted to touch on here: the music. *01:15:46-01:15:49* **Logan Moore**: And just, I want to say this. *01:15:50-01:15:51* **Logan Moore**: I want to combine this because typically we just do music on its own, but I want to talk about music and just general aesthetic. *01:15:52-01:15:59* **Logan Moore**: Because I don't feel like we've talked about that too much. *01:15:59-01:16:01* **Logan Moore**: And they obviously go very hand in hand in this game. *01:16:01-01:16:05* **Logan Moore**: And I mean, to just put where I'm coming from here, I wrote down in my notes: this is maybe the best video game soundtrack ever. *01:16:05-01:16:12* **Max Roberts**: Yes. *01:16:13-01:16:14* **Logan Moore**: And like I've I have known this for I'll say this like I've this is the one thing about Metroid that I have known coming into the season is that *01:16:14-01:16:25* **Max Roberts**: All right. *01:16:14-01:16:15* **Logan Moore**: One of my other early things I wrote down here: Vibes are immaculate. *01:16:25-01:16:28* **Logan Moore**: So I wrote vibes are immaculate, best soundtrack ever. *01:16:28-01:16:32* **Logan Moore**: So, I have always known that these games have fantastic soundtracks. *01:16:33-01:16:37* **Logan Moore**: I've listened to them. *01:16:37-01:16:39* **Logan Moore**: I have enjoyed them. *01:16:39-01:16:41* **Logan Moore**: But experiencing the music while playing was a totally different thing, and I have such a larger appreciation for this game's *01:16:41-01:16:52* **Logan Moore**: Score and its music. *01:16:51-01:16:52* **Logan Moore**: And not only that, but like I mentioned, like how they combine that with the areas that you are in. *01:16:52-01:16:59* **Logan Moore**: Like when I heard the underwater music for the first time, I was like, oh my gosh. *01:17:00-01:17:03* **Max Roberts**: That was *01:17:03-01:17:16* **Logan Moore**: I was like, I know this song. *01:17:03-01:17:05* **Logan Moore**: I've heard this song before, but in the context of an underwater area, it's 10 times better now. *01:17:05-01:17:11* **Logan Moore**: And like, there's. *01:17:11-01:17:12* **Logan Moore**: So it's great. *01:17:13-01:17:14* **Logan Moore**: The music, I mean, hats off to what are the composers again? *01:17:14-01:17:18* **Logan Moore**: Kenji Yamamoto and Kuichi Kayuma. *01:17:19-01:17:21* **Logan Moore**: Dude. *01:17:21-01:17:22* **Logan Moore**: Killer. *01:17:22-01:17:23* **Logan Moore**: I mean, honestly, for my best part of the game by far is the music. *01:17:23-01:17:27* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *01:17:27-01:17:27* **Logan Moore**: If they put out a vinyl of this game tomorrow, I'm buying it. *01:17:27-01:17:31* **Logan Moore**: So. *01:17:31-01:17:31* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:17:31-01:17:32* **Max Roberts**: So so Kenji is is the Metroid composer basically from Super Metroid. *01:17:32-01:17:37* **Max Roberts**: Fusion Prime Two Zero Pinball Corruption Did he do Federation Force? *01:17:37-01:17:47* **Logan Moore**: They didn't bring it back for the most important one. *01:17:48-01:17:51* **Max Roberts**: They did not bring him back for Federation Force. *01:17:50-01:17:52* **Max Roberts**: So, I mean, he means. *01:17:53-01:17:54* **Logan Moore**: That just makes me think Federation Forces music is like *01:17:54-01:18:06* **Max Roberts**: Probably. *01:18:00-01:18:00* **Max Roberts**: So this soundtrack is, you know, top tier status. *01:18:01-01:18:06* **Max Roberts**: It is immaculate. *01:18:06-01:18:08* **Max Roberts**: Of course, Fendrana, right? *01:18:08-01:18:11* **Max Roberts**: One of the. *01:18:11-01:18:12* **Logan Moore**: Yes. *01:18:12-01:18:12* **Max Roberts**: One of, if not the best, snow level music of all time. *01:18:13-01:18:16* **Max Roberts**: It is. *01:18:16-01:18:16* **Logan Moore**: I think that was one of the other things I I messaged you a picture I just put a picture of Kanye at the *01:18:17-01:18:26* **Max Roberts**: You sent me that beeb of Kanye. *01:18:19-01:18:21* **Logan Moore**: Pictured at the front of a board in a recording studio, and I said, Picture of every game composer who's ever made an ICE song. *01:18:25-01:18:33* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it is. *01:18:33-01:18:35* **Logan Moore**: Cause like ice songs are really always top tier, but like at this game it's on a whole other level, I think. *01:18:34-01:18:40* **Max Roberts**: I feel like every track in this game is, it stands out, is good, and you know immediately where you are. *01:18:41-01:18:48* **Max Roberts**: Like Magmore Caverns. *01:18:48-01:18:50* **Max Roberts**: The thrum of the dr the tribal drum, like thum dun dun Then Talon Overworld, when you come in and come back are both just captivating. *01:18:50-01:19:02* **Logan Moore**: Yeah. *01:18:53-01:18:53* **Logan Moore**: And it's a riff, that's a riff on the original Metroid music, right? *01:19:01-01:19:05* **Max Roberts**: Yep, yep. *01:19:05-01:19:06* **Logan Moore**: Okay. *01:19:05-01:19:05* **Max Roberts**: It is just so perfect. *01:19:07-01:19:11* **Max Roberts**: I love every sound. *01:19:11-01:19:13* **Logan Moore**: I have all these songs still in my head now, and we have not played this game. *01:19:12-01:19:15* **Max Roberts**: Yep. *01:19:14-01:19:14* **Logan Moore**: I have not played this game, and I guess I beat it a week ago. *01:19:15-01:19:18* **Logan Moore**: So I have not touched it in seven days, and I still, like, as we are talking about all these things, like they're popping into my head. *01:19:18-01:19:24* **Max Roberts**: Bam *01:19:20-01:19:26* **Max Roberts**: I. *01:19:24-01:19:25* **Max Roberts**: There are some songs that are a bit much. *01:19:25-01:19:27* **Max Roberts**: I think of the Chozo Ghosts. *01:19:28-01:19:29* **Max Roberts**: That song. *01:19:30-01:19:31* **Logan Moore**: Yes, I agree with that. *01:19:31-01:19:32* **Max Roberts**: Because those encounters are so frequent, also same with Space Pirates. *01:19:31-01:19:35* **Max Roberts**: Like, those encounters are so frequent that they're just. *01:19:35-01:19:37* **Max Roberts**: Those songs grate on you a bit over time, so I I don't care about that. *01:19:38-01:19:43* **Max Roberts**: But I love also how they use sound design to really sell the world as well. *01:19:43-01:19:48* **Max Roberts**: One of my favorite little touches is the Geiger counter. *01:19:48-01:19:52* **Logan Moore**: Oh, with uh radiation, yeah. *01:19:53-01:19:56* **Max Roberts**: Sound when you get near phase on and stuff. *01:19:53-01:19:55* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:19:55-01:19:56* **Max Roberts**: I think that is such it's just such a small auditory attention to detail that really sells it. *01:19:56-01:20:03* **Max Roberts**: It is one of the only games on Switch that supports, I think, full five point one surround sound or maybe seven, but it it supports full surround sound. *01:20:03-01:20:11* **Max Roberts**: And on Game Keep it as w it supported Dolby Pro Logic Two at the time, which was a a fairly significant deal on. *01:20:11-01:20:18* **Max Roberts**: The GameCube. *01:20:17-01:20:18* **Max Roberts**: So, sound has always been essential to this particular game, and it is again, it adds to the immersion of the world. *01:20:18-01:20:26* **Max Roberts**: It just when those keys come in in Findrana. *01:20:26-01:20:30* **Max Roberts**: Like, I'm home. *01:20:31-01:20:32* **Max Roberts**: It's so good. *01:20:32-01:20:33* **Max Roberts**: I love this soundtrack. *01:20:34-01:20:36* **Logan Moore**: I think the thing that I like the most about the soundtrack is that it feels *01:20:35-01:20:42* **Logan Moore**: Diegetic. *01:20:41-01:20:42* **Logan Moore**: Like, do you know what the like it feels like it is intrinsically part of the world? *01:20:42-01:20:48* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *01:20:43-01:20:44* **Max Roberts**: In the world. *01:20:47-01:20:48* **Logan Moore**: And I think what's *01:20:48-01:20:52* **Logan Moore**: most impressive about that is like the instrumentation and the the s the sounds that are used on these tracks. *01:20:50-01:20:57* **Logan Moore**: Like out outside of the piano, everything else found sounds so ethereal and atmospheric and just *01:20:57-01:21:05* **Logan Moore**: It's just kind of incoherent in some sort. *01:21:05-01:21:07* **Logan Moore**: Maybe not incoherent, but it's just, it doesn't feel like music. *01:21:08-01:21:12* **Logan Moore**: It doesn't feel like instrumentation, at least. *01:21:13-01:21:15* **Logan Moore**: But then they sprinkle that in with the piano and stuff like that. *01:21:15-01:21:18* **Logan Moore**: Like, dude, oh my gosh. *01:21:18-01:21:19* **Logan Moore**: It's so good. *01:21:20-01:21:21* **Logan Moore**: And it's, I think, this is one of the best aspects of the Metroid series: just the character designs and the world designs are so striking. *01:21:21-01:21:32* **Logan Moore**: It is Nintendo's. *01:21:32-01:21:33* **Logan Moore**: Sci Fi series. *01:21:33-01:21:34* **Logan Moore**: Like this is if Nintendo or or well, if I was gonna say, if Zelda is, you know, their high fantasy series, this is like their sci fi stuff. *01:21:35-01:21:42* **Max Roberts**: Mm-hmm. *01:21:35-01:21:36* **Max Roberts**: One of the sci-fi series. *01:21:36-01:21:38* **Logan Moore**: And I know they've got some other stuff sprinkled in there, but like this is their flagship *01:21:43-01:21:48* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:21:43-01:21:43* **Logan Moore**: Science fiction title. *01:21:47-01:21:48* **Logan Moore**: And it just the music really does a lot with that. *01:21:49-01:21:51* **Logan Moore**: And just all the all the enemy designs I think are cool too. *01:21:52-01:21:55* **Logan Moore**: Samus's design is great. *01:21:55-01:21:56* **Logan Moore**: I I don't know how much time you spent like combing through the con concept art and stuff like that, maybe after you beat the game or *01:21:56-01:22:02* **Max Roberts**: I did after the game, yeah, yeah. *01:22:01-01:22:02* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, I did the same thing. *01:22:02-01:22:04* **Logan Moore**: I just think the entire look of this game, it's funny because I've never played these games, and we've always talked about my hate for Metroid and *01:22:05-01:22:16* **Logan Moore**: I have a lot more problems with some of these games than I do think other people do, but I have always respected these games a lot, and I think that there is a lot of really cool stuff in this world. *01:22:14-01:22:26* **Logan Moore**: just from a visual component. *01:22:27-01:22:29* **Logan Moore**: The visuals and the gameplay, I think, are just top tier in these games. *01:22:30-01:22:35* **Logan Moore**: So specifically, I guess, in this game, we'll see if it holds through the rest of the season. *01:22:35-01:22:40* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it *01:22:36-01:22:42* **Max Roberts**: Remastered in particular looks really great as well. *01:22:40-01:22:43* **Max Roberts**: I think on the Switch it's it's I it's a testament to visual design and holding up because you know this was just a four eighty p Gamekeep game at the time, you know. *01:22:43-01:22:52* **Logan Moore**: Well, also, I mean, I mean, we can talk about this here, but like, shout out to Retro for that remaster. *01:22:53-01:22:58* **Max Roberts**: It really *01:22:53-01:22:55* **Logan Moore**: That remaster is really good. *01:22:58-01:22:59* **Logan Moore**: Like, that's one of the better remasters that has come out in a hot minute. *01:22:59-01:23:03* **Logan Moore**: And it's so clear that I think they've maybe said this, but it's so apparent that they're like, okay, well, we're going to make Metroid Prime 4 now. *01:23:03-01:23:10* **Logan Moore**: How the heck do we do that? *01:23:11-01:23:12* **Logan Moore**: Let's go back to the start and like work on this game again. *01:23:12-01:23:16* **Max Roberts**: You have yeah, that 'cause the people weren't these aren't the original developers. *01:23:16-01:23:23* **Logan Moore**: And you could tell this was like the their w yeah, 'cause they've not had this they've not had the same team, obviously, from twenty one years ago. *01:23:16-01:23:24* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:23:21-01:23:23* **Logan Moore**: So this is kind of the new age of Retro's way of *01:23:24-01:23:29* **Logan Moore**: getting their feet wet with this series and really understanding this this world. *01:23:28-01:23:33* **Logan Moore**: And they they did a really good job on the remaster, I believe. *01:23:33-01:23:36* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, it's it's pretty great. *01:23:38-01:23:39* **Max Roberts**: It also is is apparently has sold one uh over a million copies. *01:23:39-01:23:44* **Max Roberts**: It's the remaster alone, so *01:23:44-01:23:48* **Max Roberts**: That's pretty good for Metroid. *01:23:47-01:23:49* **Max Roberts**: A quarter of a million were s is this right? *01:23:51-01:23:54* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, a quarter of a million units were sold in its first week, and it's sold one and a half million in the US alone. *01:23:54-01:23:59* **Max Roberts**: So it's *01:23:59-01:24:01* **Max Roberts**: It's definitely one of the most successful Metroid games of all time, which isn't a, you know, a lotta list, but Prime is v prime prime is vital to saving Metroid. *01:24:01-01:24:11* **Logan Moore**: I was going to say this is actually like *01:24:07-01:24:13* **Logan Moore**: This is actually like their worst performing franchise, but Max, what is this game's legacy? *01:24:12-01:24:21* **Max Roberts**: Yeah. *01:24:16-01:24:16* **Max Roberts**: But it's one of the best games. *01:24:16-01:24:19* **Max Roberts**: It's a lot of things. *01:24:21-01:24:22* **Max Roberts**: It is *01:24:23-01:24:26* **Max Roberts**: It is the great 2D to 3D transition for Metroid. *01:24:25-01:24:29* **Max Roberts**: It's the Ocarina of Time equivalent or the Super Mario 64 equivalent of for Metroid, right, of bringing it up. *01:24:29-01:24:36* **Max Roberts**: It's a game that still holds up. *01:24:36-01:24:37* **Max Roberts**: It's a Hall of Famer, right? *01:24:38-01:24:39* **Max Roberts**: The atmosphere, the world, the lore, it all lends itself to this game that feels alive. *01:24:40-01:24:47* **Max Roberts**: Even today, it's annoying. *01:24:47-01:24:49* **Max Roberts**: There's parts of it that are annoying, from enemies to intermap connections or percentage things that we've talked about. *01:24:49-01:24:55* **Max Roberts**: But all that kind of gets *01:24:56-01:25:01* **Max Roberts**: The rough edges are smoothed out by the overall package, I think. *01:24:59-01:25:02* **Max Roberts**: And it's it's really one of the truly great games, and it's *01:25:02-01:25:10* **Max Roberts**: It put a lot of pressure on the rest of the games afterward, and they're not as good. *01:25:09-01:25:15* **Max Roberts**: That's not to say they're bad, but it's just. *01:25:16-01:25:18* **Max Roberts**: They really knocked it out of the park. *01:25:18-01:25:20* **Max Roberts**: And it took a lot of work. *01:25:21-01:25:22* **Max Roberts**: This game suffered an unbelievable crunch. *01:25:22-01:25:26* **Max Roberts**: You know, it took them a ton of time to make one level that was approved by Nintendo, and then they had to finish the rest of the game in like eight months. *01:25:26-01:25:33* **Max Roberts**: It was like 80-hour work weeks. *01:25:33-01:25:35* **Max Roberts**: I mean, truly *01:25:35-01:25:39* **Max Roberts**: horrendous stuff. *01:25:37-01:25:38* **Max Roberts**: But through the fires, one of the greatest games in Nintendo's catalog was made. *01:25:39-01:25:44* **Max Roberts**: And I'm not justifying The Crunch or anything like that, but it is it is a game that was forged in fire. *01:25:44-01:25:51* **Max Roberts**: And old. *01:25:52-01:25:52* **Logan Moore**: Yeah, I think this game's this game's legacy is really I mean, kind of like we said it at the top, it it's one of the top-reviewed Nintendo games ever, which I think *01:25:54-01:26:07* **Logan Moore**: Falls through the cracks because this is the same company, you know, that puts out Mario and Zelda. *01:26:07-01:26:11* **Logan Moore**: And I feel like that's what gets all the attention for Nintendo. *01:26:11-01:26:14* **Logan Moore**: But when people talk about the greatest Nintendo games of all time, this is. *01:26:15-01:26:18* **Logan Moore**: Up there in many people's minds. *01:26:19-01:26:21* **Logan Moore**: Maybe not my own. *01:26:22-01:26:23* **Logan Moore**: I like it, but I don't know if I would put it up there. *01:26:23-01:26:26* **Logan Moore**: But I mean, this is definitely on a short list of *01:26:26-01:26:32* **Logan Moore**: The best games that they've ever put out. *01:26:30-01:26:32* **Logan Moore**: And not only that, but like there was some risk here, I feel like, because they upended their *01:26:33-01:26:45* **Logan Moore**: Their formula, or maybe not upended it, but they took their formula that they knew worked in a 2D manner and they took it to 3D to see how it would do there. *01:26:43-01:26:52* **Logan Moore**: And it was greatly successful. *01:26:53-01:26:54* **Logan Moore**: And this spawned *01:26:54-01:26:57* **Logan Moore**: All the games we're going to play this season. *01:26:56-01:26:58* **Logan Moore**: Like, everything we're playing this season comes from this. *01:26:58-01:27:01* **Logan Moore**: And obviously, there's something to be said about finding. *01:27:01-01:27:07* **Logan Moore**: Success when with that 2D to 3D jump because you think back to the late nineties, like when the N64 and PS1 were coming out, and obviously a lot of the *01:27:08-01:27:19* **Logan Moore**: Game publishers back then were, you know, oh, we're we're gonna make our first M Mario game in 3D and we're gonna make a Zelda game in 3D now. *01:27:17-01:27:25* **Logan Moore**: And but there's some there's something to be said for with how they *01:27:25-01:27:32* **Logan Moore**: This game is so different, but it is so similar to the Metroid games that have come before it. *01:27:31-01:27:35* **Logan Moore**: And I think that's what's impressive: there's a hard. *01:27:35-01:27:38* **Logan Moore**: Line between, you know, like 2D Mario and 3D Mario, or 2D Zelda and 3D Zelda. *01:27:38-01:27:43* **Logan Moore**: Like, they're similar, but there are some stark differences. *01:27:43-01:27:46* **Logan Moore**: This to me feels very, very similar to the 2D Metroid games I've played, which is. *01:27:46-01:27:51* **Logan Moore**: Impressive because it is so different at the same time. *01:27:51-01:27:56* **Logan Moore**: I feel like I'm kind of rambling. *01:27:57-01:27:58* **Logan Moore**: This game's legacy is though, is that is just probably one of the most acclaimed games ever. *01:27:58-01:28:04* **Logan Moore**: And *01:28:04-01:28:06* **Max Roberts**: Yeah, let's still hold up. *01:28:04-01:28:06* **Logan Moore**: Is a game so I was going to say, is a game so so popular amongst hardcore fans that they're now eagerly awaiting Metroid Prime 4, wherever the heck that is. *01:28:05-01:28:16* **Max Roberts**: That's a that's a story for a different episode. *01:28:17-01:28:20* **Logan Moore**: I feel like we're going to play that game this year. *01:28:20-01:28:23* **Logan Moore**: By this year, I mean 2024. *01:28:24-01:28:25* **Max Roberts**: I hope so. *01:28:24-01:28:25* **Max Roberts**: Twenty-four. *01:28:25-01:28:26* **Logan Moore**: So I feel like it'll be part of this season when all said and done. *01:28:26-01:28:29* **Max Roberts**: I hope so. *01:28:26-01:28:27* **Logan Moore**: But we'll see. *01:28:29-01:28:30* **Max Roberts**: I hope so. *01:28:31-01:28:32* **Max Roberts**: But I think that does it for Metroid Prime 1, Metroid Prime. *01:28:32-01:28:36* **Max Roberts**: So thank you all for listening and joining with us. *01:28:37-01:28:39* **Max Roberts**: If you'd like, you can check out *01:28:39-01:28:43* **Max Roberts**: The rest of the show over at chapterselect. *01:28:41-01:28:43* **Max Roberts**: com. *01:28:43-01:28:44* **Max Roberts**: Check out all our other seasons ranging from Banjo and Kazooie and Po Roman, Fast and Furious, all that good stuff. *01:28:44-01:28:49* **Max Roberts**: So you can check *01:28:50-01:28:53* **Max Roberts**: All of that out. *01:28:51-01:28:52* **Max Roberts**: If you'd like to check out Logan's work, you can do so over at comicbook. *01:28:52-01:28:55* **Max Roberts**: com where he's a staff writer, writes the reviews over there. *01:28:56-01:28:58* **Max Roberts**: Maybe he'll review Metroid Prem 4. *01:28:59-01:29:00* **Max Roberts**: Maybe he can fight his way into that. *01:29:00-01:29:01* **Max Roberts**: I don't know about that. *01:29:02-01:29:03* **Logan Moore**: I don't want to do that. *01:29:03-01:29:04* **Max Roberts**: He's shaky. *01:29:03-01:29:06* **Max Roberts**: So you can check out his work over there. *01:29:06-01:29:08* **Max Roberts**: And then you can find my writing over at maxfrequency. *01:29:08-01:29:11* **Max Roberts**: net and my other podcast, the Max Frequency Podcast. *01:29:11-01:29:14* **Max Roberts**: You can check that out. *01:29:14-01:29:15* **Max Roberts**: As well, but thank you all so much for listening in until next time. *01:29:15-01:29:19* **Max Roberts**: Adios. *01:29:19-01:29:20*