MFP16 Transcript - Max Frequency

# [[MFP16 - “A Growing Individualistic Power” with Colin Moriarty]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- He's the founder and CEO of Last End Media, the co-owner and writer of Lillimo Games, and the godfather of PlayStation Podcasts, Colin Moriarty. *00:00* Once they allowed that, it wasn't like that anymore. *00:00* There's stuff they told me. *00:00* In return, Sony was like, that is totally fine. *00:00* And now we've got part one, which is definitely visual arts and you know reports. *00:00* And so I think they're in a a catch twenty two. *00:00* They want to play games, everyone's getting back into the mood. *00:00* Um we also have Chapter Select, a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth a series and explore their evolution design and legacy. *00:00* It's kinda cool. *00:00* Anyway, I'm getting way off tr topic. *00:00* So ninety four. *00:00* When I started writing for IGN guides in 2002, my whole job was to put these people out of business. *00:00* Which are Dragon Quest, um, one, two, three, and four on NES as seminal games that got me into strategy guys because that was during the era when games came with so much boutique shit inside the box and you would roll out the map and there would be like a booklet and *00:00* It's kind of sad. *00:00* And I was just hunting legendary animals like cougars and stuff up in the mountains. *00:00* You know It was before me, believe it or not, yeah, Barry did these things cause Barry's connection to me was through trophy hunting. *00:00* There's a the Venn diagram of people that would be in the strategy guides who are into completionism and then who are in the trophies has to be substantial overlap in that Venn diagram. *00:00* It's funny, we learned a lot a really hard lesson though about uh about Xbox achievement people, which we're not, which is when we added free achievements to Hybroxia 2, we thought we were doing a good thing and they fucking flipped out at us. *00:00* And it seems like Hav the purchase of Haven was to secure whatever they're making. *00:00* I don't know, media molecule or something. *00:00* I don't know if you saw saw that really fascinating Brazilian release about the acquisition of Microsoft. *00:00* Nothing. *00:00* character around do whatever you want and I can't help but like jump around right and just do whatever I want. *00:00* uh knockback, uh defining dukes, those all the shows under the last stand media brand. *00:00* Hello everybody and welcome to the Max Frequency Podcast. *00:00* Just people love that episode and I remember that too because we were at home. *00:00* What movie did you see? *00:00* It's kind of been it's been that forever. *00:00* to see if I remembered my password and I did and my you have like a certain score nomenclature based on how long you've been there and stuff and I think mine is ancient, which I I thought was kind of cool. *00:00* 'Cause you talked about it and so I definitely knew to use that. *00:00* It sucks. *00:00* I had a buddy actually a couple episodes ago, Ricky Freck, he was talking about how there's someone, some user on GameFacts who makes the best *00:00* Fuck it. *00:00* uh Yakuza guides apparently and he's played all of 'em, but this guy's on his work's only on Game Facts and he just makes these super in-depth rich guides and stuff. *00:00* Uh, I don't know if you know the name Devin Morgan, but he's like basically the administrator of Game Facts now. *00:00* Just wait a week and you'll save twenty bucks and it totally worked. *00:00* And that, you know, that was a huge inspiration for me, which eventually led to freelance guide riding over at IGN, inspired directly by you uh talking about, you know, this is how you get your foot in the door, this is how you do these things. *00:00* And I found some of the links don't necessarily work and stuff, but I remember that era of IGN guides where they were these they were almost like websites in of themselves with big banners and pictures and y if you had the membership you could download the PDF. *00:00* F it was so foreign to be able to take screenshots with your computer that we like freelancers weren't expected to do that. *00:00* And this this and I Jin was like the one and and Ijen ran through this for like more than ten years. *00:00* If you updated like the image map on the top or something like that, you had to go through and update all of them and publish them one at a time and and they would fail. *00:00* I knew people that was like, you have three days with this game in a hotel room. *00:00* I remember the o I remember the first time I ever even thought about doing a video guide we did with Final Fantasy XIII. *00:00* It's funny you're talking about this snappy thing and it sounds a lot like how Elgato got started. *00:00* Um my roommate at the time got it on PC and he beat it and I was so mad. *00:00* then do things that were skill based because I never wanted to get caught up. *00:00* And I would write, you know, this video or at this time in the video, I was doing this and just, you know, I found *00:00* in God of War, uh rave four ravens and these items. *00:00* So then you really go through the footage. *00:00* Patreon podcast than I ever made it IGN. *00:00* While I was at college I met my wife and that was a huge it wasn't just me that would have had to move out to California and stuff, so that was a huge factor. *00:00* Uh even our like we're we're struggling to sell games more and more because of the crowded marketplace, so we need to find every way to market and we try to market the trophy and achievement at the enthusiasts, which um we feel like we're simpatico with. *00:00* Uh Last of Us One was last was a few years ago. *00:00* on because we because we broke the 100 or we broke the one like we broke their completion percentage which was important to them over there. *00:00* I would like to think mine as definitive as well. *00:00* That was kind of the way IGN treated a lot of this work was do whatever you want. *00:00* the boiled down versions, which is what everyone else w wrote when they when they read my pieces. *00:00* And some might say Danny O'Dwyer is maybe the best equivalent of that today, but I would argue Danny O'Dwyer comes off much more as a marketer in a lot of ways to me. *00:00* And uh I d I just don't think they have the the wherewithal to do it. *00:00* Four hours. *00:00* Yeah, so I don't I don't know what it looks like. *00:00* Uh for this show research kind of came back across a tweet where you'd said you responded in an IGN comment, but those comments are all gone now. *00:00* And then I had to yes, start from the beginning. *00:00* I think I have all the transcription still. *00:00* Totally fine. *00:00* I watched the video that they put out, um, a week or two ago after the leaks, which I mean a leaking a ten year old game, I don't know. *00:00* this or any like s so I'm not saying anything, but my my assumption based on what we know about the Last of Us remake *00:00* Jason Mumbauer was doing, he's out now doing the game with John Garvin, who used to be a bend. *00:00* Infamous two or infamous second sun DLC that was, you know, behind a collector's edition wall and all of these kinds of things. *00:00* Sony has a great tradition of letting other teams fuck with games. *00:00* It's interesting to note that Sony owned Sucker Punch at that point. *00:00* to work on Oculus content. *00:00* And I I o I only bring that a long story up to say Naughty Dog definitely has that kind of control. *00:00* through Naughty Dog production with a lot of ext external developers. *00:00* I would not be disappointed in that. *00:00* But now that they did a part two and the way it kind of ends and everything, I need I kind of need a part three. *00:00* The Last of Us Studio? *00:00* They should make third person s narrative driven action games, which is exactly what they do. *00:00* And I was like, oh my God, what? *00:00* of the mountain is Naughty Dog. *00:00* And I think Sony's building something like this. *00:00* And it goes to show you why Bunju is so important to them, because they're able to they don't care about destiny. *00:00* But PSVR2 looks like a generate actually like two generations of VR leap for from PSVR, but the tech there is going to be wild. *00:00* Mm-hmm. *00:00* They don't have consoles to sell. *00:00* We can just kind of wait it out, start accumulating more consoles to sell, get them where we need to start continuing to fucking do what they're doing, which is putting them on like 747s and sell and shipping them at great cost to just get them places. *00:00* You're cut off at the knees. *00:00* For God of War and for God of War definitely. *00:00* w one of these games hits, we might be looking at Naughty Dog as like a sec a secondary studio compared to whoever makes their big game. *00:00* the way Neil just came out and and said it. *00:00* Uh it it sounds like there's a huge narrative component to this game, even though it is multiplayer. *00:00* And then we will explore, okay, what kind of world can evoke that feeling, what kind of mechanics can evoke that feeling, what kind of psychological situations can we put multiple people in that speak back to the theme that we're after. *00:00* n in a multiplayer game inherently. *00:00* I think that they're gonna retool the shooting to be different and think they already started doing that in the last of us part two and Uncharted Four, obviously, so *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* No, I what I expect will happen is that factions will come out and it'll do well and people will really like it, but I think that there'll be a great anticipation for whatever lays beyond that for most people. *00:00* As strange as it is to say, I just think that we're gonna have to make way for some new stuff. *00:00* You don't even have to be a patron to just see that as like that's just a general newsfeed of everything. *00:00* uh a bunch of research and listening back to old episodes of Beyond and uh Yes I Love You and um Sacred Symbols and stuff. *00:00* were the first I haven't listened to any spoiler casts for Last of Us Part Two. *00:00* And that is still my PSN ID, despite Oh nice, that's that's funny. *00:00* If anyone would like to play a round of survivors with me, I have plenty of room on my PSN friends list. *00:00* in my opinion, where it was like it was kind of more secret, you know. *00:00* It's it's funny, I've I've had I I've kind of I haven't pitched this idea officially 'cause I I'm not anywhere near wanting to do it yet, but I'm gonna write a memoir one day, I think, and I wanna hire someone to go through all of my old podcasts and just *00:00* Um do you log in to get your karma and all that? *00:00* And yeah, I I used I live from probably 1999 to 2003. *00:00* Like the that recent gold trophy in tr in Stray where you have to like do something without getting hit is apparently like almost impossible. *00:00* It allows you to kind of still use your imagination in some way or at least connect the dots without like who wants to watch someone do something and then do it? *00:00* Playing the game for you, and it's funny, I just replayed Wild Arms, which is one of my favorite games, when it was re-released on PS4 and PS5 with trophies, and I used the strategy guide on GameFacts from front to back to get through the game. *00:00* I wrote one of the guides on there, but it's not. *00:00* I um yeah, so I use that that guide and and it's always a pleasure when you find good written guides for new games, which is which sometimes happens but often doesn't. *00:00* The the 90s were like a really unique time for the internet because no one knew what the fuck it was. *00:00* quaint about it when you were kind of on the inside and it felt like you were contributing to something that was growing and secretive. *00:00* big thing and then over the last two hundred years or so it's accelerated so much where in indiv individual lifetimes and generations miss or c contribute to something and the internet, the early dial-up internet happens to be one of those things. *00:00* to to you know or inclination to do it. *00:00* Two. *00:00* Uh no, I the last guide I did was in 2019. *00:00* I ended up doing guides um helping on uh Breath of the Wild, God of War, some of the bigger those were the some of the big ones, Red Dead Two. *00:00* And I would pour over that and just read about uh the flood and the covenant and the different weapons and things, uh Donkey Kong 64 strategy guides. *00:00* It's funny you asked that because it was like an evolutionary thing where when IGN got in touch with me in two thousand two we we couldn't take s like *00:00* And we didn't have screenshots for that, but we just made it really colorful and like really nice. *00:00* uh and got into color and bolding and all it sounds quaint, but that a as you know with GameFacts, that's not the way facts work. *00:00* So eventually, it's funny you asked, because we had this thing called Snappy. *00:00* composite cable that would go to like a console and you would just have a run through. *00:00* a button and take screenshots and it would like you know freeze for a second and take it and just kind of cache it away and that's how we would get the screenshots. *00:00* So you would constantly be clicking it and instead of taking like one screenshot at a time because you had to do it, you would just constantly be pressing the button. *00:00* Um and we've gotten to like, you know, WordPress and shit like that. *00:00* Pirating TV shows, I think. *00:00* compete with all of that. *00:00* And uh that that stopped after I came to IGN, so um I never got to take advantage of doing that. *00:00* And then after that I was off of guides. *00:00* images was like was awesome. *00:00* It's pretty much the focus now whenever you write a guide is video first. *00:00* I mean the video is what it all is now. *00:00* Now I'm like, well, what you were saying is interesting. *00:00* through your footage and taking screenshots from that and writing about the whole process. *00:00* Might be more efficient. *00:00* Three hours and it's like, well, I just need the one run, or Celeste is probably a better example because levels were longer. *00:00* Pretty much my whole time like doing guides, it was um it was about five hundred bucks. *00:00* treat them well and send them presents and car handwritten notes to keep like it's like I so I've learned a lot of lessons about how to treat people and retain them. *00:00* And it sounded like you were kind of maybe traveling down that route and I knew I knew many people that were doing that as well. *00:00* But that was that's hundreds of hours of game time. *00:00* I would do anything. *00:00* I treat my employees and my freelancers way better than IGN ever treated me, like not even fucking close. *00:00* But I don't blame people for being like, I'll do whatever it takes, because that's another route. *00:00* if I did a lot of work because I was also freelancing for other parts of the site, I was like, this is awesome. *00:00* That was I mean I totally listened to you and and Greg and other people at IGN at the time of just saying, you know, you gotta go out and do it. *00:00* all this stuff. *00:00* Fourteen hundred dollars. *00:00* And also trophies. *00:00* Uh I have it right here. *00:00* It was different. *00:00* the platinum trophy is what shows you on the on PlayStation that you have one hundred percent. *00:00* I don't know what the last platinum I had was, but I remember like the last of us part two, that was a big push for me. *00:00* Naughty Dog like all of the definitive information at the time about Naughty Dog. *00:00* Which is which is cool. *00:00* It's not an open-minded all barrier soul kind of thing that a lot of his stuff does. *00:00* And it's something different now. *00:00* I feel like it's almost the only way to learn about those. *00:00* It's uh yeah. *00:00* was gone and I had no access anymore in Autodog at that point. *00:00* It was like a a fact-finding mission and then I had all of the the transcriptions written outside like someone had to go through all that shit and put it on paper. *00:00* But it's gonna be a very short vert. *00:00* one of the main characters of this story is fucking Amy Hennig. *00:00* And I respected that. *00:00* eke a story out of that, which is that PlayStation 3 was supposed to come out in 2005. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* They're all tethered to Sony PR, which I have a horrible relationship with. *00:00* I had a couple of people that did agree to talk to me, but then that all fell through and no one actually ended up um sticking. *00:00* So I don't give a I don't think they give a shit. *00:00* It was cool. *00:00* openly left because he didn't know if he wanted to do it anymore and I think that that's really cool. *00:00* He turned it down for ethical reasons, which I think is excellent, but it's cool when these guys that are very smart leave and then they're summoned back because it means that there was a clarion call they could not resist. *00:00* burnt out unscharted for Bruce Stray who didn't even want to make that game, you know. *00:00* But I think that he's kind of allowed that to happen to himself too. *00:00* Oh, it's exciting. *00:00* is that this was kind of, I don't want to say foisted on Naughty Dog, but that they saw a product that was like halfway done. *00:00* Ten year let's let's I'm gonna use Sly Cooper in Sucker Punch as an example. *00:00* Like you guys all think that there's gonna be a new Sly Cooper game or a new infamous game, but no. *00:00* Naughty Dog took it over and I wouldn't wouldn't be surprised if many people at Naughty Dog weren't working on it at all. *00:00* So I know people are mad about this, and and I always say opportunities taken or opportunities, you know, are gone. *00:00* I think that's absolutely part of the strategy. *00:00* fast as possible so they could start on Charter 4 and and future projects and stuff. *00:00* We had the Last of Us Part 2 patch for PS5. *00:00* Yeah, and they were also Ben is also involved with that Uncharted game that was kind of floating around too. *00:00* The PS4 version of that. *00:00* uh it holds back development and innovation because you've got to make it run on ten year old hardware now. *00:00* Um but I think for single player naughty dog style games I I just and Factions is not single player, but Factions is being positioned as far as I understand from reading things and that's a full seventy dollar game. *00:00* uh bios is like, you know, secret project or question marks and things like that. *00:00* I personally hope it's new IP. *00:00* I what I would love for them to do is not do it for a long time. *00:00* Um Uncharted, 1, 2, 3, Last of Us, and then uh Last of Us Remastered, Uncharted 4, Lost Legacy, and um Part 2. *00:00* And I feel like that number might be bolstered a little bit with these uh ports and remasters and and remakes and stuff. *00:00* So that's my only hope. *00:00* That's what their wheelhouse is. *00:00* We don't need to necessarily go outside the family anymore and we can take all of this boring shit that actually some people have a real passion for. *00:00* And to say to that studio like you don't have to worry about that at all. *00:00* It sounds like mostly what they're doing is building a cloud-based system where games can be developed from afar. *00:00* Is really cool, but why is Gorilla making a st a fucking engine? *00:00* We we don't need to worry about that. *00:00* point five billion dollars in retention bonuses between like a thousand of them. *00:00* And we're we ha we don't have that kind of freedom. *00:00* was also done to be like we need you to like we have no idea what we're doing. *00:00* I love that. *00:00* And uh it's gonna be great. *00:00* But I think that they might do it. *00:00* not able to make enough, inflation is out of control. *00:00* Their entire $70 increase, you know, ten dollar increase from sixty to seventy dollars in their games wiped out by inflation. *00:00* And uh so they don't get caught on shipping containers in Oakland for three weeks. *00:00* for PlayStation 5 and I think that that I think that that has a lot to do with um with why they're not saying anything. *00:00* I I think I'll be hysterical. *00:00* And so some uh double digits in a lot of them, like double digits down in in uh software, double digits down in DLC, double digits down in microtransactions, like people are just not interacting as much. *00:00* the pandemic normal, but I think when people start kind of swinging back, when they start missing games, when the weather starts turning, that's when you strike and *00:00* the interpretation of that particular character, but uh yeah, it was it was interesting to see him say, I wish I wish again, I say over and over again, I wish people were or entities were less precious with information. *00:00* I I probably most of the game video um TV shows and movies that we talk about on the show never come out. *00:00* that game and Outlanders and some other or Outriders rather is and and some others tries to to work in. *00:00* That's their bread and butter. *00:00* Allow people to kind of act out and talk and make choices and do all these things and how does that um affect emotion? *00:00* Uncharted and The Last of Us share DNA and that they're both about people and characters you love. *00:00* I think they have the potential of doing something cool. *00:00* Something that all ties it together. *00:00* Yeah, it's it's interesting to think about that with the the downturn in sales just twos being softer than ones, it's just not the same as it as it was. *00:00* I'd say since Jack X combat racing. *00:00* you know, all jazzed about it and he was like, there's no way it's gonna be good. *00:00* factions connected to Facebook and did all sorts of weird shit. *00:00* I was like, haha, I'm right, you know, coworker. *00:00* I think people need to steal themselves a little bit for what's to come. *00:00* Right. *00:00* It was that embargo kind of grind that I've totally moved away from. *00:00* in that sequential release order and have a better feel for things. *00:00* I would imagine Lost Legacy will be around the corner after that. *00:00* It started out as single-player DLC and expanded into its own standalone $40 game, which was also unique for Naughty Dog at the time. *00:00* those design things get tested out early on in uh Lost Legacy. *00:00* I'm not gonna like spend time thinking about it until I just play it. *00:00* And uh yeah, I appreciate your time. *00:00* just tweets about uh work and the shows that he produces now with the very, very occasional personal update. *00:00* Getting ready to start up with the fast and the furious, but then in the spring we are doing resident evil. *00:00* In all of my listening, I came across this clip that should be coming through for you, but I thought it was pretty funny *00:00* That was uh podcast beyond like you could tell me I said anything at all on those shows and I would believe it because it's just so far away. *00:00* Thank you. *00:00* I don't even know, what is it, eight years or something like that? *00:00* Different podcasts, the whole deal. *00:00* to know those things, I just don't want to do the work to go back and forth. *00:00* So yeah, Game Fax is awesome. *00:00* I I agree, I'm always thrill. *00:00* trophy guides for games like Bioshock and things like that. *00:00* I did that for when I was trying to get all the trophies in um Persona Fort Golden. *00:00* I I didn't even beat the game. *00:00* It was not the best introduction to persona. *00:00* communication, connectivity. *00:00* this real vibe of that you don't really get on the internet anymore because even YouTube YouTube was the last bastion of that in the beginning, but once they allowed monetization, which is was of course essential to the platform and is awesome, but *00:00* Like, what was the transition like for you from game facts to IGN, switching from more solely text-based facts to these bigger, more ambitious projects? *00:00* So but I started And it's all w and it's all wiki style now, right? *00:00* Um they would just put the text up and we would kind of you know make it a little prettier. *00:00* this amazing invention which I still hear in my sleep to this day because it's uh we had these driving pedals and *00:00* And so it was a very do-it-yourself sort of situation. *00:00* And so if you publish a 200 page article, but you updated so like say you only updated pages 196, 197, 198. *00:00* Take your time, make it better, um, but have fun jumping through all the hoops of nib and and you know, capturing these photos and doing all that kind of stuff. *00:00* And then they d entered the capture card business and now they have a foot pedal product that you can map to buttons and stuff and take screenshots or record videos or or do whatever else. *00:00* That leaked out that way as well, but I w um yeah, it was it was a game changer for us and having these little four eighty P, you know *00:00* revolutionary for us. *00:00* It's tough, man. *00:00* And uh no one w at wanted it at the time and I took it and then that turned out to be a very difficult game. *00:00* 'Cause everyone clicks on 'em. *00:00* But it's uh it's funny you bring up the video thing just about capturing because I've been thinking about that in my mind about I haven't written a guide in years, but how would I go about doing them today in the era of video? *00:00* on a video is exponentially higher than on a on an article. *00:00* record it and then watch the gameplay and write the guide from that because people might not I mean it's hard to believe. *00:00* That wouldn't be like my interest in in making them. *00:00* Just the base game, main campaign, and then the DLC the first DLC campaign, I think it was around a thousand bucks. *00:00* And yeah, it's like, yeah, it was $3 an hour or whatever. *00:00* was in is insane it's insane I can't believe that people dude my mortgage on my house I have a brand new house build new build *00:00* Um sure. *00:00* begin to imagine what our old uh our old Chinese landlord Johnson would uh would have gotten. *00:00* put off of games where they don't have any information on them. *00:00* Yeah, I do. *00:00* You are one of the lucky people that can do it on Substack or do it somewhere else. *00:00* the person who loved long form research articles and talking to devs and getting their stories and all of that. *00:00* But it's pretty soulless compared to what we would used to do, and I don't think you would ever see something like this on IGN today, because it's too hard. *00:00* Yeah, I I totally see it. *00:00* were lost at the time. *00:00* That's awesome. *00:00* We put our podcasts on YouTube, but we're not a video product. *00:00* All gone. *00:00* you know, Ruben and all those guys in the beginning and I had to get to The Last of Us. *00:00* Stayed at a hotel and went to dinners and interviewed people and and did just just sat with a shit ton of people and *00:00* Where it's like Amy Hennig's gone, Uncharted Four at that time was we have like no idea what's going on with Uncharted Four. *00:00* I uh Sony and PlayStation and Naughty Dog disputed our characterization of her being pushed out. *00:00* And um it just I didn't have the information necessary to finish the article, basically. *00:00* It would have to be all off the record. *00:00* To parlay them to get on the show, I have to kind of bend the knee as it were, and I'm not doing that. *00:00* Pick up a little bit where you left off. *00:00* Oh Kurok. *00:00* But, you know, Neil's there talking, obviously promoting the game, and um, you know, he's saying this is the definitive way to play the last of S. *00:00* We gotta do it, I guess. *00:00* a project that wasn't up to snuff or that they wanted to do that was dealing with an IP of theirs, I think that they now have the power to kind of step in and do that. *00:00* Because they started from scratch and built everything up from the ground there for Uncharted. *00:00* Which they did. *00:00* Uh I just want to know what else they're working on. *00:00* But you don't have to return right away, but I do think that it's kind of begging for something, but I it can't be now because of factions. *00:00* But I'm curious how long it'll be until, you know, a new or whatever the secret game is is out. *00:00* Yeah, I agree. *00:00* Even if we made something like Call of Duty, it's so entrenched and they have such an advantage that it would take us years and generations of consoles to be able to edge them out. *00:00* Um, both from the same team. *00:00* And just, but what what is out there? *00:00* Numbers are soft right now. *00:00* I'll come back when when football season starts again, you know, that kind of thing. *00:00* Um scared about that is like do you continue to support PS4? *00:00* I would imagine that they have a game every quarter next year for from first and second party. *00:00* Like a single player game and two of them will be uh the first of these games as a service and and it'll be I'm fucking sh I hate these games, but I'm stoked to see what it's gonna be like as a an analyst. *00:00* What are they gonna do? *00:00* um guerrilla or London, right? *00:00* A great game for to be associated with, so I don't know if I'm reading it correctly. *00:00* It can be. *00:00* All we know is it's narrative and clearly set in San Francisco. *00:00* I'm curious about like for some reason my mind kind of goes to massive work with the division when I think about the potential of this game. *00:00* the challenge that they have to overcome and perhaps why it's taking so long in addition to it being a different sort of game for them to make is it might be hard to like hit those narrative beats in a multiplayer *00:00* But with the TV show on the way, part one seems to if the show is really good and gets a lot of people talking and stuff, which I hope is it's a great show, you know, I'm crossing my fingers for it. *00:00* Solve that. *00:00* But I I I think that eventually they're not going to meet expectations. *00:00* a hundred million dollars in profit on this, and we could have made five hundred million dollars in profit if you guys made something else. *00:00* But it would be fine because it's like, okay, there's plenty of stuff to play in the past. *00:00* you'll see it. *00:00* You and the listeners today, thank you so much, Colin, for your time and just joining me on this show. *00:00* Um definitely. *00:00* I could be wrong. *00:00* I don't know. *00:00* Yeah, thank you for having me. *00:00* gleam personal information out of them? *00:00* There's pro there's no doubt I used your Mega Man 2 guide back when I played that game for the first time seven years ago *00:00* Elementary school? *00:00* This thing up with these collectibles and that's a little more annoying. *00:00* You were just writing them. *00:00* And so a lot of the characters actually have remained the same as well. *00:00* a product of that. *00:00* Even if you're on your PSP. *00:00* Getting anything to work. *00:00* I boy gosh. *00:00* Then you've gotta think of splicing it all together. *00:00* time at IGN happened to coincide completely with my four years at Northeastern. *00:00* And so I think his idea was just trying to kind of retroactively get a marketing pop out of having those guides available. *00:00* Yeah, it's definitely been it it's a huge inspiration and just thing for me too. *00:00* Um yeah, I I think that it's n there's no doubt that I segued my love of guides and completionism and all that into trophies. *00:00* uh over five parts bigger than all the other histories you ever wrote. *00:00* Um so I like the balance of written work because it allows you to kind of paint a tale, use quotes in an effective way, cite back to history and do all the rest and *00:00* I'm surprised that no one ever stepped into the void and was able to do it. *00:00* Go as long as you need to. *00:00* That requires, you know, watch time and all these things. *00:00* Yeah, it's because I I took too long to write the story. *00:00* um comically reliable, I would say, source. *00:00* You were invaluable uh for a lot of this in this time. *00:00* I would love to know how Bruce feels about this kind of this particular project. *00:00* we want to do that. *00:00* And so this all happened without Sucker Punch. *00:00* Naughty Dog was like, we this isn't up to snuff, and maybe we much like they did with um with Last of Us remastered, maybe we can learn the console a little bit too. *00:00* And I I would imagine that's the end. *00:00* little thing and I think people are going to be surprised that this has morphed into a mega project and it's exciting. *00:00* And Uncharted. *00:00* Return to Jack and Dax are like, oh what a waste. *00:00* I think Sony's doing everything it can to ex expedite that that problem that Sean Leyden said when he left, which is that our games are too expensive and too they take too long to make. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Basically, in Brazil and in other countries, companies when a major corporation is being purchased by a major corporation or there's like a merger that I saw Benji uh tweet about it. *00:00* Right, companies can submit like their like the the government asks like what do you think um Capcom? *00:00* And they were willing to give them whatever they wanted to understand how they did it. *00:00* VR Tech has always been something I've loved and have followed, you know, as close as I can. *00:00* I we don't have anything else from First Party. *00:00* Yeah, so we'll see. *00:00* They can't make enough of them. *00:00* totally eating shit right now and it's probably freaking them out, but I would assume that they're waiting to say more because they're like, there are no consoles. *00:00* They know better than to they they know better than to lead with PC shit. *00:00* The film industry is a great example. *00:00* that I've I came came across when writing Chasing the Stick was this multiplayer design hiring video that's still up on their YouTube channel from like twenty seventeen. *00:00* Up to four player kind of game where there's a much greater emphasis on narrative, which I think that *00:00* Do you have like a Gears of War style thing where it just you just disassociate from the game and it becomes a and it becomes a uh a CG rendered? *00:00* I think that they could have something really special. *00:00* Division style shooter. *00:00* So yeah, I I mean that's the way I envision the game is a game that can be played by yourself because I think that that would be a huge mistake for them to make a game that you cannot play by yourself. *00:00* Um and I remember waking up on my birthday was when your IGN re um review of The Last of Us went up and you'd given it a 10. *00:00* They're gonna get one. *00:00* Yeah, I I well now you can change your name too, which is good. *00:00* And then uh yeah, and then I think I made that new one um or unified because you had to make like a separate contributor account and then a board account. *00:00* And it was revolutionary. *00:00* And uh they were so cool. *00:00* enemy compendium and all this shit. *00:00* You could connect the driving pedal through, you know, a a button map to be the click button for the snappy. *00:00* And um it was made by a guy named Frank, seriously. *00:00* I had a notebook, a journal on the side, and I I would record in chunks, you know, half hour, hour chunks or or mission based. *00:00* On a nice plot of land, it's like twenty five hundred square feet, pretty modest, garage, driveway. *00:00* There was one more guide focus specific question I just wanted to ask. *00:00* He made those on his own as a way to kind of help promote the games. *00:00* We kind of on the writing train, we've both written I would say definitive histories of Nani Dog. *00:00* Someone's gotta do the long form shit that Colin used to do that brought us a lot of respect, and then just no one ever really never really did it. *00:00* They were they were pretty uh you know hands off. *00:00* And uh it was fun, but I I would like I still talk to Neil and um, you know, we're friends. *00:00* They were there, the whole team just in the trenches making this game that they thought was gonna tank the studio, which is, you know, wild in hindsight now that it's got a TV show and all this other stuff. *00:00* And um yeah, for those that don't know the story, Slive 4 was made by Sansaru, who's now owned by Facebook Meta *00:00* protect the game and rename it as well. *00:00* Factions two, that I will that be cross gen? *00:00* Is built for these games. *00:00* Again, Haven and everyone else is in one family. *00:00* These were both of those games were not even supposed to be games as a service. *00:00* I could just imagine I could just imagine all the people with the Joel skins running around with golf clubs and it d that's gonna go one of two ways. *00:00* Uh that sounds like factions to me through and through. *00:00* Um I'll just I'll read it really quick. *00:00* Um like just as an example, I'm playing Cyberpunk recently, which is awesome, and during the serious moments you can move your c *00:00* That could potentially help a lot. *00:00* It could help the, you know, that IP in particular. *00:00* Generally speaking, I think they're probably under an ex extraordinary pressure. *00:00* And I think people will maybe look at factions as a sign of a new s era of PlayStation and that might be true. *00:00* That that's how I was as a kid. *00:00* It was close for Cuphead and Celeste. *00:00* that dream, uh, and was just doing what I needed to do and I was gonna go to grad school, but they they hired me. *00:00* 2,000 something a month, but it was because it was rent controlled. *00:00* I sound arrogant when I say this and I don't I don't care, I guess. *00:00* Reading it, I think you can it comes off better. *00:00* months to to go do and then research and write and go through and like annotate and that's it was a long ass project and it it's not even done. *00:00* And I think that's a power play. *00:00* You just look I mean you just look everywhere and you just see games for free. *00:00* Through a through a pro a proxy of a character basically because everyone's just gonna be playing skins of characters that exist potentially. *00:00* So I believe in the potential of this game. *00:00* It is it's funny you say that. *00:00* for that when they inevitably are tempted away from it, which is what's going to happen. *00:00* Um so I just kind of missed it at that point. *00:00* Yeah, and it wasn't a good way to to be introduced to persona, but I'm too I'm too O C D to uh to have it any other way. *00:00* I was so I was kind of curious, like what drove you to create these guides and facts and walkthroughs and stuff? *00:00* humanity like it's it how long it takes for things to take root and how there are just lost generations in the middle, like where nothing happens basically or no one's able to take advantage of the next one *00:00* Would should be in more interested in talking because I think he's basically been erased from the entire development of The Last of Us, which he's been which he co-developed, and I know that I know that that bothered him. *00:00* of let's say PC development, extraneous stuff, middleware, all the things you have to deal with and saying like, oh we have a Nixus for that. *00:00* Where I'm like, I hope this lasts as long as possible. *00:00* Well, I've got one more question for you before we wrap up. *00:00* Like they're always as long as there's no EMP or like alien invasion, like there'll always be some sort of technical and uh imprint of me based on all of this stuff. *00:00* That's what we're gonna that's what we're gonna do today. *00:00* It was nice to see him come back into the game space um the other week though. *00:00* I think here's the double-edged sword of the situation as far as I see it is that Sony wants a free-to-play or game as a service persistent hit. *00:00* How that will affect their output elsewhere is going to be very interesting because they're gonna look at a $150 or $200 million game like The Last of Us Part 2 and be like, well, okay, we made *00:00* I don't think that um again, I just don't think that it pays well enough. *00:00* Yeah, I'm I'm looking it up now because I feel like I did you send me this maybe or did I I believe I at least tweeted it at you um and it was definitely in show notes. *00:00* I think there's a growing individualistic power at the different studios, and I think *00:00* It felt very strange and out of the blue. *00:00* I mean that's why I think it's so exciting. *00:00* I I I think the game will do very well, but I don't know if it's the wisest use of time if there isn't something else in the works, which obviously there is. *00:00* Thank you so much. *00:00* And he left the instruction manual. *00:00* I've been writing online since twenty thirteen um and the wikis were my way into IGN and I think, you know *00:00* Like there weren't as many games that were like, we're easy platinum trophies. *00:01* And it he talked to people and dug through and it's not obviously not as long as the history of just one game's failed development. *00:01* I get the one the one thing that I did do to get access to Naruto was I said, if after we talk, there's something you want to take off the record, you're allowed to do that before I begin writing. *00:01* Like you said earlier, we don't know what's coming beyond God of War here in November, which is besides Spider-Man and Wolverine. *00:01* I miss it a lot. *00:01* I kinda when writing Chasing the Stick, which I um you um you were an inspiration for that at the time back in in 2020. *00:01* And what I what I by the way, what I hope is and I just because I don't understand some people's thinking of like they should do this or they should do a first-person shooter or they should do a uh you know a mascot. *00:01* Like just little things like that have to be kind of narrated nar uh navigated around in a narrative-based multiplayer game. *00:01* I have plenty of games to play. *00:01* I would lick shit off a floor to fucking work at IGN when I was, you know, 18 years old. *00:01* I could have missed it. *00:01* I just well it I do know that it came out at a time that like six-month period when I wasn't really playing games in 2017. *00:01* Or I think it would be like an interesting reverse diary. *00:01* I had to dig for your uh Grand Theft Auto Four guide. *00:01* Like that that that pressure is interesting. *00:01* I don't actually know the answer to that, but it's I have thought about that mechanically. *00:01* Oh my gosh. *00:01* So they were they they kind of saw the long game, and I think that that long game exists. *00:01* Yeah. *00:01* We they have never done anything like this, which is which is incredible. *00:01* Uh the Seattle area in the last post part two is heavily inspired by uh a particular part of Lost Legacy and stuff. *00:01* Like I was so disenchanted. *00:01* It just goes to show you that my apartment in Santa Monica was like three thousand four hundred dollars a month. *00:01* Yeah, isn't it? *00:01* Like I I think that's kind of what people are not like I this was seemingly started by that San Diego studio that Fum Bauer. *00:01* Because I I think what's what we're finding out and again, this this is all evidentiary, right? *00:01* I think people would start losing their shit at that point. *00:01* I there was one more I think train of thought I definitely wanted to pick your brain about, specifically with factions too, as we're all kind of calling it right now. *00:01* It felt like it was anti-establishment because we didn't need Prima and Brady and we didn't need all, you know, Nintendo power. *00:01* Um if you talk to the guys that wrote on Prima and Bra B Brady guides, I never got to do that, but people at IGN used to ghostwrite for Prima and Brady and they weren't allowed to, but they would write under fake names because it was so lucrative. *00:01* I think one I always think of was the uh the Agent article, the Rockstar Agent one over by Blake Hester put on Polygon. *00:01* That was one of my next questions is you know, back when I was writing Chasing the Stick, I you know, tried to look for answers to why part five never came out and *00:01* It was nothing too crazy. *00:01* But I will say that I w I didn't want part two. *00:01* And I think that so whatever it is, I really hope it's that. *00:01* And why are you why are you porting Horizon to PC? *00:01* 'Cause it's gotta work on super old stuff. *00:01* It was it was fun to talk uh about Naughty Dog and PlayStation. *00:01* I don't know. *00:01* I mean if people like it, it's it's fine. *00:01* So I actually don't know andor remember. *00:01* No way, you gotta kill PS4. *00:01* Like w we can't r like Patreon's going down a little bit. *00:01* I'm sorry. *00:01* I love Game Fax. *00:01* Like they had because Prima and Brady guides guys would go to the get the game early. *00:01* Like just having that pedal. *00:01* That's what it seems like. *00:01* And I was like, these guys can just publish their games wherever they want. *00:01* Mm-hmm. *00:01* It was fun to talk to you. *00:01* Thanks for having me. *00:01* Video and wasn't as prominent then. *00:01* It was it was completely totally wild to be able to show people what you were talking about. *00:01* I mean, it's undeniable you love trophies. *00:01* Whatever it is, I hope that that is what it is is linear, third person, narrative-driven action *00:01* It's it's fast. *00:01* Ninety four, yes. *00:01* I can't imagine it looks very good, but uh like how much are you really gonna make the the history of Naughty Dog took me *00:01* We had a c I had to cut it up c I w I didn't know how many pieces it was gonna get cut up into, but by the time I got to the fifth part, it would have felt so stupid to have written it *00:01* Taylor Kurwasaki. *00:01* It has to. *00:01* It's like, well, our competitor isn't doing shit, they don't have anything this year. *00:01* But I think making a game that you encourage and nudge people towards playing with other people, and obviously that's a n the natural state of factions itself. *00:01* People you couldn't monetize on YouTube for years. *00:01* No even when those choices started to kind of seep into Uncharted Four, which were meaningless, like the I was like the fuck. *00:01* So like they should continue to do it no matter what anyone else does. *00:01* They're way off base on their pr on their their fiscal predictions. *00:01* I hate video guides. *00:01* Now I have a brewing business idea that we want to get off the ground for strategy guys, but I wouldn't be writing them. *00:01* And yeah, I mean that's with anyone I I talked to a lot of people at PlayStation, but sure. *00:01* I just think that would be exciting. *00:01* Like they just say whatever they want. *00:01* And so they're going to. *00:01* Maybe they haven't synced. *00:01* Yeah, they I used to love the tournaments they would do where they would like especially I think over the summers where they put characters against each other *00:02* I remember being on MIRC and ICQ and all these places, talking to people and making friends, and I was friends with people on the GameFax boards and I know some of them in person still. *00:02* I'm like, this is dope. *00:02* So I missed the whole the whole video guide era, like completely. *00:02* I had there was a boss fight, the the pirate ship. *00:02* W did d did your love of that stuff l inspire you you guys to put this stuff up on Lilimo? *00:02* But they made the game they basically made a vertical slice in secret and presented it to Sony without permission and said, we want to make a Sly Cooper game. *00:02* And there's just there's just no way to I guess monetize it effectively anymore unless *00:02* Um but I would think so. *00:02* But and Bruce always struck me as someone that didn't give much of a shit. *00:02* Like I think they just they know that that and by the way, they don't exist in PlayStation Studios. *00:02* And I I'm kind of identifying that the reason that they're doing it, and I think it's it's kind of we see shadows of it in their recent finances is *00:02* And they don't want to say anything. *00:02* We saw their retention right now is horrible. *00:02* And by the way, they they were also experien experimenting a lot with like metagames in factions, which I think they can do again as well. *00:02* I'm not like I don't I also don't get excited about releases like until they're in my hands. *00:02* It was um I just heard that and my email came in. *00:02* You're not. *00:02* I was like, w we couldn't believe it. *00:02* Mm-hmm. *00:02* Yeah, there's something too kinetic about video for me. *00:02* And not all of it's gonna be useful, but let's at least take our time and yeah, you can't do that in a video that's made for an algorithmic churn on IG or on um YouTube rather that *00:02* It's gonna be like four point five or something like that, or five point one. *00:02* Yeah, I was gonna say, like it would pretty it would be interesting to splice these together, like it's a whole new game. *00:02* You're you know and your mortgage is less than my rent and I'm I'm in Florida. *00:02* Um that is porting PS4 games all the way up, incorporating PS5 features *00:02* It that seems very rare for him to just speak out directly and deny something. *00:02* Like it might be a an unsolvable problem in some way. *00:02* There's a good reason to invest in The Last of Us's universe. *00:02* I appreciate you. *00:02* That's kind in '94, you you were still alive during that era, but that you were during during that era of tension where it's *00:02* Um, but you wrote Rising to Greatness over at IGN in two thousand thirteen. *00:02* I I get excited when I do see some pieces that come out, especially ones that explore uh, you know, pieces of history that are *00:02* Because there there's inevitably another project. *00:02* I w back in twenty thirteen when I was working at Kmart, a coworker of mine there, um, you know, I was excited for The Last of Us. *00:02* I was reading instruction manuals. *00:02* I saw that today. *00:02* I'm so blown. *00:02* We would love for you to make a Sly Cooper game. *00:02* I think Haven, uh in reading the recent interviews with Jade Raymond, it sounds like that's also what they are. *00:02* We don't know fucking anything about what's coming on coming past God of War, with the exception of vague Spider-Man 2, Vague Wolverine. *00:02* And and they keep, you know, these little drops of PSVR too as well. *00:02* Insomniac could make something. *00:02* And then yeah, I just never got back into it. *00:02* So you're you like it sounds so old mannish to say like my time or whatever, but *00:02* Um No and I fuck I fucked that I did the same thing this year actually and I fucked it up too. *00:02* It's like it's a very frustrating time to be a PlayStation fan, and this is what we say on Sacred Symbols all the time. *00:02* Like what because the all we've probably said all sorts of things that would identify those times in my life and I would love to *00:02* Um but now just knowing that I can change it, that was all I needed. *00:02* You know? *00:02* And there wouldn't necessarily be a game about uh any information about Hybroxia or Twin Breaker or something if we didn't put it out there ourselves. *00:02* One of the main things that they took off the record was about the nature of PlayStation 3's launch, and I was stable I was able to *00:02* W the th one of the things I noticed with, you know, learning and reading about Naughty Dog was the transition from PS2 to PS3 was difficult. *00:02* You're actually right kind of on topic with the whole kind of guiding themes I have for this episode. *00:02* I was like right there at the end. *00:02* She's gone. *00:02* And I think they've kind of worked into that position wherein Sly Cooper was made without their blessing and *00:02* And they even that had, you know, a single player component to it. *00:02* I wonder if that somehow snuck out to them in some way. *00:02* They've never been that. *00:02* And then you have the part one there and part two, and they both run on PS5 and do all this great stuff. *00:02* It's not gonna be we we we've been very we i for single player people and PlayStation fans, we've been very, very lucky that they just have consistently just given us exactly what we wanted. *00:02* But uh we you would put plug it into your parallel port or your printer port, and then there would be like a yellow *00:02* I obviously not the last of us on PS3, but the beginning of PS4. *00:02* Yeah. *00:02* They're probably also starting to eat shit on the cost of these things. *00:02* Uh yeah, people can find Sacred Symbols, which is our PlayStation podcast and all the other content we do at patreon. *00:02* But I still when I play older games and I'm stuck or need help, I go to game facts first. *00:02* I mean I like the people that make them I I and I use them once in a blue moon if there's some like *00:02* This is cooler than the game and and that's that's still a like I still fantasize, it's so weird, about writing strategy guides. *00:02* I tried to never put myself in a position where I couldn't do a guide based on skill. *00:02* It's like, yeah, record yourself playing for a day and then watch it back and write as you go. *00:02* And I think they were just kind of not really paying attention. *00:02* That that's that's gonna be the end of that. *00:02* And so it's like, dude, it's about to pop off. *00:02* Yeah. *00:02* In 2017 they were clearly working on it. *00:02* Quote, what we don't want is multiplayer to feel like a mode. *00:02* I've they can keep going. *00:02* Well yeah, and it's it's just way more sellable. *00:02* I think that's a good thing. *00:02* It's like, yes, but you were trying to do something. *00:02* Like I don't know what I'm supposed to do. *00:02* I I would I would imagine that one of the major reasons God of War has taken song is because of the PS4 version of the game. *00:02* Yeah. *00:02* They can't keep cranking these games out, especially at their pace then. *00:02* I mean that was I never I always wanted to change my name because my name is still Moriarty dash IGN even though I've been gone for IGN for *00:03* And and uh our freelance our freelancers are all they don't invoice me. *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* Because I I was expecting to turn it on and have like upgradable weapons and shit of that. *00:03* Just create something new. *00:03* Horizon game? *00:03* But yeah, I've not I've not played it. *00:03* Thank you for coming on the show. *00:03* Is that like is that somet something you can do? *00:03* I'm thinking about playing Final Fantasy X soon and I think I'm gonna have to do something similar to that, which is a little obnoxious. *00:03* Like, here's all the instructions, write it, get it done. *00:03* Yeah, it really it truly it is. *00:03* It was weird. *00:03* But I I think you would I would assume if not this month and next month there will be like some sort of showcase, I would assume, for *00:03* And I think it's going to be much more kinetic than The Last of Us's factions on PS3. *00:03* If you're producing a final product that's just video, you know, Cuphead, it could take thirty, forty minutes to beat a boss, or an hour *00:03* I have no disrespect against IG and they they're the reason I'm here today doing what I'm doing, and I appreciate that. *00:03* Yeah, people are back to school, they're getting back to their desks at work, they're off vacation. *00:03* But C Moriarty was your username on GameFax. *00:03* It was like this really complicated thing. *00:03* I I I did not realize how tough Celeste was going to be. *00:03* In my time at IGN, it was all you need to capture this video. *00:03* I feel like it's uh it was slave labor back then and this just sounds like even worse because now you have more double the expectations. *00:03* Totally. *00:03* And uh yeah, I enjo I enjoyed that a lot. *00:03* I I lived there with Scott Bromley and then I lived there with Greg and we just never left, so we kept the prices down, but I can't even imagine. *00:03* And if you still go to the Wikipedia for Naughty Dog and a lot of the early PlayStation-centric games, they're all pockmarked with citations of me. *00:03* So it's like we I can't really talk to them on the record. *00:03* So Sly Cooper 4, being at Sanzaro, made in secret, and there's a whole story about that, right? *00:03* And um I just don't think that that's the reality we live in anymore with Sony IP. *00:03* Like ten years. *00:03* And that was kind of forward thinking. *00:03* Like it's going to happen. *00:03* And there's just a lot of things to play. *00:03* But you haven't played Uncharted Lost Legacy? *00:03* I didn't have an Xbox. *00:03* The GTA was like a PSP optimized guide. *00:03* And you were talking about the pages, like the pagination was a nightmare. *00:03* But that was like in 2012 or something. *00:03* Yeah, that's fucking insane. *00:03* I guess you could sit down and have long podcasts or interviews or videos, but *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* Yeah, because Uncharted was in Fortnite. *00:03* Like it's clear. *00:03* I think they've met the the I think over and over again they've met and surpassed expectations. *00:03* That's a lot of hours. *00:03* Yeah, I I it wasn't done, and I don't remember that game like from at all really anymore. *00:03* But sometimes you have to like kind of cross triangulate. *00:03* There were a couple of things times I got fucked on guides like where I was like, I can't I can't do this. *00:03* I think the other part of what I'm what's missing is like my my political persuasion, but that's a totally another thing. *00:03* Like the game is secondary. *00:03* Like, I hope they get through the entire calendar year without saying a word about anything. *00:03* Because they're selling everything they can make. *00:03* I don't know if the it's just not possible. *00:03* You learn more. *00:03* We don't consider ourselves a video product. *00:03* So uh in terms of who it was that told us this. *00:03* And I'm sure there's information in them. *00:03* And but as personally, even though it's not great for my business, it's like I love this tension. *00:03* They were not sold because they were overpriced and no one was gonna buy them. *00:03* I again I see it as a and I don't know anything about it, but I in my mind's eye, I just see it as a four-person *00:03* I'm sure people can go look it up. *00:03* So if the percentages change, no one really gives a shit. *00:03* Like I just don't think anyone there even has could begin to c tackle a project like that. *00:03* Like he should talk. *00:03* We're gonna find out when we go through the credits when the game comes out. *00:03* Although I wouldn't, you know, if they had the right story for part three, I'm I wouldn't, you know *00:03* And they've they've consistently put out four games every PlayStation generation. *00:03* Because it's it's not that yeah, everyone says Sony does this kind of game very well, but um the king *00:03* Bungie's its own thing. *00:03* So I think it ends there. *00:03* Like like there's a really good uh it probably doesn't exist anymore, but one of my great guides was LinkedIn to the past when they released that on Game Boy Advance, the four swords version. *00:03* And on Lilimo's site, there there's like a trophy guide section and they're written and they're put up on I want to say PlayStation trophies. *00:03* Did that on PS4, spent a lot of time in factions, which I'm hoping to get to later. *00:03* And we'll publish it. *00:03* I don't know. *00:03* Recently Sucker Punch released the statement about infamous and Sly Cooper and all this thing. *00:03* You know? *00:03* You know Yeah, I can see it. *00:03* So I'm not eager. *00:03* Now Degan and I on Knockback I've gone through Uncharted 1, 2, and 3, and we are going to do four, even though it breaks the rules of the show. *00:03* I'm your host, Max Roberts, and this time I've got a very special guest. *00:03* Um I started working full time at Walt Disney World um around that time and just kind of had to pivot because I didn't have the time and stuff. *00:03* They have a history making VR content. *00:03* And I think the reason why it's taking so long is because they know they can't just release something. *00:03* But I think I was just really lucky to have lived it during that time. *00:03* But I love those old guides that we put away and it all started with Nintendo Power and the Interstitials and and this and I always look at the Dragon Warrior games on *00:03* He was like an an engineer, and he was the only one that knew how it worked. *00:03* Um they would I was gonna say they would be awesome people to talk to because they're not there anymore. *00:03* And, you know, devs do that. *00:03* And there's a fluidity that I think they're trying to develop internally in the studios family to lift off the various burdens. *00:03* We have someone that can do that for you. *00:03* And suddenly their game churns half of Sony's revenue. *00:03* So what what drove you? *00:04* Uh over there. *00:04* And there might be a the audience is kind of trained to use video now too, so it might be it might be that as well just about sheer popularity *00:04* This is gonna buy me all the weed I need, all the alcohol I need, and all the food I need, and that was all I cared about. *00:04* Like we were trying to make a game where it's like, yeah, you want to play this game, it's fun, and in a few hours you can get the platinum trophy. *00:04* I it just I don't mean it to be that way, but there was no effective replacement of Column Moriarty in games media when I left. *00:04* I'm sure I read it back in 2013 or 14 when you But why did part five never come out which would have focused on The Last of Us? *00:04* So it's cool. *00:04* And Sly Cooper 4 was made by a an outside studio. *00:04* So I I just yeah, so I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's I think it's not at all consolidating. *00:04* We can't but I'm like, I can't really worry about that. *00:04* And obviously be proud of it. *00:04* And you guys were the first one I did to go back and actually assess how you guys felt about the game and stuff. *00:04* But it's video was the thing. *00:04* I just don't even when I was at IGN I they would tell me it's that this is like a loss leader. *00:04* It's it's a very complicated game people out there are playing and I agree I would love more long form content, but I think it's just gonna come that will always be available. *00:04* But the major difference between what you were able to do and what I ended up doing was you actually had access. *00:04* Your task is to port the original Sly Cooper trilogy to PS3, and that's what they did. *00:04* And that's fucking crazy. *00:04* But I think they realize like you can't. *00:04* They've never even tried. *00:04* Like just breaking the immersion. *00:04* Always happy to do it. *00:04* And a lot of people don't have that option, which is so I'm kind of *00:04* And I'm like, ah fuck this. *00:04* I remember Christmas I forget the year, but whenever Halo 2 came out, that Christmas my cousin got an X3, I think that was. *00:04* But by the time I got to The Last of Us, the conversation was completely outdated and the end wouldn't have been The Last of Us because Amy Hennig *00:04* It truly is. *00:04* What do you what are you thinking about this? *00:04* I was like, I need to beat this because I'm being paid to. *00:04* It's like why I'm not really great at it. *00:04* They explained that and that is the source of the article, but um why it was supposed to come out in 2005 and why it didn't, they struck that. *00:04* Don't worry about that. *00:04* Like if the if they want to start selling games and they're like, well, we have PC shit to talk about, like people are gonna be like, oh no, no, no, no, no. *00:04* You can dis you can spend time. *00:04* So that's really the story about it, and it sucks, but I just I have so I have a ton of shit I never published. *00:04* Like w we're seeing the same thing with David Jaffe where he keeps saying, like, I don't really want to do this anymore. *00:04* Part one. *00:04* Like they've they were writing about it in their fiscal stuff. *00:04* They just announce things. *00:04* That's when Greg and I lived together and we were at home and we went in because I think it happened on a Saturday night and I think we got drunk and *00:04* So it was kind of like an evolutionary thing where we started getting away from the 79 word, you know, document. *00:04* I would even travel with uh my PS4. *00:04* He should have talked to you. *00:04* I thought part two was amazing. *00:04* Like that's kind of the way I feel is like I don't think you can stop here. *00:04* I think I kind of retroactively soured on Uncharted 4, which is why I'm eager to get back to that and play it again. *00:04* Um so it's just where everything lives. *00:04* And he was a huge writer when I was uh there. *00:04* Yeah. *00:04* I think they did that because when a few weeks later they announced that they were taking things offline and they were releasing like *00:04* Except for MLB. *00:04* Like I'll be so bummed if it's like Naughty Dogs open world game or Naughty Dogs *00:04* And um so it's it I I can imagine that the situation, that logistical situation, is not good. *00:04* I think it sounds like a seventy dollar game. *00:04* And it sounds so quaint to say, like, you know, it it it really changed it, but it did change. *00:04* It was annoying as fuck. *00:04* Um I think it would be fascinating. *00:04* Right. *00:04* Yes, so that's the other secret project. *00:04* It will happen. *00:04* And so yeah, Lost Legacy is like I I want to play it, but I really feel like I actually need to get back to Uncharted 4 first in some way, just because I want to go in that *00:04* I really, really appreciate your time. *00:04* We did, you know, because it was like our guides are free and they're better and we're a little slower. *00:04* I didn't I think I only had like an N sixty four and GameCube around that time. *00:04* And eventually he left and like they untangled all of it *00:04* Like they had a PR guy there who was like have tuned out. *00:04* I think another again, I don't know anyone at Naughty Dog, but I they haven't made a multiplayer focused game *00:04* And that that's like how you knew you really loved the game. *00:04* I I totally understand that angle, like the the CPM on *00:04* And that way I could refer back to the video and not be like, was it in this file or that file? *00:04* And now I think all I have to do is a permadef run and I'll have the hundred percent. *00:04* Do you miss writing long form pieces like that? *00:04* And get, you know, Ashley Johnson back and she's older. *00:04* And you would think I mean their studio has been built and designed and hired for these types of projects. *00:04* Um, I'm trying to think, what else from first parties, you know? *00:04* And I so yeah, I would love for them to get through the entire year and just not even say a goddamn word about anything. *00:04* That's a lot, but it would be uh it would be really interesting to see like people just pull out. *00:04* Bumbling around and doing its thing. *00:04* And you can brute force your way in, do that. *00:04* That's insane. *00:04* It's like whatever, dude. *00:04* So making a couple thousand dollars a month *00:04* They wouldn't let me back in. *00:04* And there's stuff they told me that I um *00:04* I'm sh I'm fucking amped. *00:04* Did you see any of anything about this? *00:04* Oh, I'm I am eager, but I am not longing for them to to re-emerge in some way. *00:04* I was really struggling with it, and the game had come out by by that point at the game and *00:04* By the end of it, uh Red Dead and God of War specifically was when I started implementing it. *00:04* Like it's not to poke fun, I'm not trying to poke fun at Xbox or anything, but it's like uh they can do whatever they want with Xbox and Microsoft, because Microsoft does other things. *00:04* It'll be on the front page. *00:04* We still I mean I don't I can't speak for them like sh that is what we were told by a very reliable source. *00:04* And I think we're seeing the same pattern here with PS5. *00:04* I I even saw um one tweet, I don't remember the developer in general, but they were at Bend. *00:04* And this is this is why I think they uh the this does mark a new era for them because I just I don't think *00:04* I had like a guide here and a guide there and I was trying to piece it all together. *00:04* Like when we we got on the internet, my friends got on the internet in 94, 95, I got the internet in 1996. *00:04* It was this thing you used to uh plug into your parallel port. *00:04* So that was 2010, I think, and 2011, something like that. *00:04* Like 'cause I wasn't the only advocate of the pedal and I'm sure that like *00:04* Right. *00:04* I don't know. *00:04* It doesn't have to be The Last of Us or Uncharted, but this is the exact thing that they need to be doing. *00:04* And I believe they've continued that trend, but you're right. *00:04* I was looking at your trophies, because you're Colin. *00:04* Despite them being uh changing, I've been max Roberts not available, max frequency not available, so *00:05* But their whole crunch was time. *00:05* I did Cuphead and that was really hard. *00:05* I you know, you clearly have a love of guides in that process. *00:05* So but I miss it most of all because no one does it. *00:05* Like no one else is working on one. *00:05* And then on PS4, exactly that, they took The Last of Us, remastered it for PS4 to get their engine ported over a s *00:05* They have fun. *00:05* And we'll and it'll enter the pipeline and and and find its way wherever it needs to go. *00:05* So I I just don't know if it's this game. *00:05* And then I'm gonna have to go back or we're gonna have to wait. *00:05* Um but since we know now that he's back in doing another game, I assume they didn't want to burn any bridges, which is which is fine. *00:05* And I like seeing so many think like that, because they already have the talent to make the games they need to make. *00:05* So everyone made a lot of money and like six figures for most of them. *00:05* They might be dealing because of the gravity of their games, they might be dealing for the first time with some of these issues. *00:05* I'm excited to see what you think about it because it was *00:05* It's not like when you're getting I mean, I think a lot of that stuff, especially a Bethesda, comes off as just marketing that they did for free. *00:05* And um and I think a lot of that comes from the fact that I like we like our people are like four-hour podcasts. *00:05* You were talking about I don't know what people make anymore, like in freelance at I don't know other places. *00:05* Like they're they they cost, right? *00:05* If someone else is watching that, that's a huge problem. *00:05* Not because they're Sony, but because they're trying so many different things that one of them is going to work. *00:05* Thank you very much. *00:05* My PSN ID is MUDKIP143. *00:05* Yeah that kind of sucks. *00:05* I'm well, I would never expect you to. *00:05* And get this new thing out. *00:05* Use Unreal Engine. *00:05* They can say whatever they want. *00:05* And and I think that they were willing to do that because the sauce was so important. *00:05* I've got the quest and the PSVR2, and I'll use any headset I can get my hands on. *00:05* We at least have God of War and *00:05* It was probably still within the scope of we will attach this to Last of Us Part II before that was inevitably separated. *00:05* And I think that if they can could there be an app tied to it? *00:05* We were using this thing nib until then, and you had to go into the back end and publish every page individually. *00:05* They would sometimes go to the studio. *00:05* That whole that was wild, that whole ride. *00:05* That's really late. *00:05* They they're they want to know how they did it *00:05* And why promote something that you can't find? *00:05* Um for myself, you can follow me on Twitter at Max Roberts143 and my writing over at maxfrequency. *00:05* I was like, oh, I'm hit of the week on this particular episode. *00:05* Yeah, it just changed it changes everything. *00:05* It was that's that's a ripoff. *00:05* That's a totally another route in. *00:05* So I wasn't even at it's it you got I got sucked in by just kind of setting all those seeds earlier on. *00:05* So it was gonna take a long time to write, but I had to sit on everything and kind of go sequentially, so it all began with *00:05* So we we stand by that stuff. *00:05* That it's being made primarily *00:05* And they say as much in that recent um *00:05* And I think that that also shows a whole new era of Sony. *00:05* Things never come out. *00:05* So they could stop releasing games for ten years and I think I I would be fine with that. *00:05* You know, I c I couldn't believe it. *00:05* I was reading about this not too long ago. *00:05* We would play the game for like a minute, pause the game, right? *00:05* And I think that either the game was not up to snuff or Naughty Dog was like, well, we *00:05* I would assume that that's gotta be cards. *00:05* Like they've done a few things like kill strain and a few that like but Death Drawn to Death, but th these were *00:05* You could just play through this campaign. *00:05* I have a pool in the backyard. *00:05* Cause you remember when Hybroxia one came out, that was 2018, I wanna say. *00:05* A lot of it is yeah, well all of it is off the record because *00:05* It it's you know, especially with the part one remake getting ready to come out here, actually a month from the day we're recording this *00:05* And so I think that the prolific kind of development of games, like the four games per generation that you're talking about, will no doubt slow down. *00:05* So it's worrying for them. *00:05* They're not going to raise the price like Oculus was raised. *00:05* I lived on Game Packs. *00:05* Oh, it was non-existent on the internet. *00:05* It'll make us look great. *00:05* It's like while I can write about the last of us *00:05* Like I don't know if it's gonna happen sooner or later, but it's gonna pop off. *00:05* And I would imagine two of them will be *00:05* And I think that's what I appreciate people kind of advocating for better pay and *00:05* But clearly they're working on something new and *00:05* We want it to be almost its own game, its own experience. *00:05* So looking forward to that. *00:05* And then it was like, okay, cool, then we can worry about we I don't have to worry about it anymore. *00:05* And you would have this app open, this computer your program open on your computer and you would click *00:05* Here's five thousand dollars. *00:05* What do you think, Square Annex? *00:05* So Right. *00:05* I want to give you this time to just promote or share anything that uh you would like to share with listeners. *00:05* Um yeah. *00:05* However, um Mark Ryan Sally, who is like you know the pu one of the editors in chief of IGN Guides, invented *00:05* Um, like not to out Dustin people make fun of me, but like Dustin makes more money as a the executive editor of a fucking ragtag *00:05* There's nothing to talk about. *00:05* And that's the I was coming into that. *00:06* And then some bigger ones I would get more. *00:06* And if they can figure that out in factions *00:06* And I think there's probably, I would suspect, more pressure on a multiplayer game. *00:06* Like m all my guides were turned into wikis and they don't exist anymore. *00:06* It's like, well, I did really well at this part, or I need to edit this death out. *00:06* And then the cost of California, I think. *00:06* I love chasing those trophies. *00:06* Yeah? *00:06* And uh it would be fun to do that again, but unfortunately *00:06* Because I think that's the thing Naughty Dog is known for most is emotion right now. *00:06* So well, I think that's everything I've got for *00:06* So yeah. *00:06* You guys were just going all out. *00:06* Because when I interviewed I interviewed everyone almost at one time with sub supp supplemental stuff, but I went and spent like a couple weeks at Naughty Dog and *00:06* And I think that if they got wind of *00:06* Yes. *00:06* Mutate of So Jazz. *00:06* They're like, hmm, like *00:06* I would suppose, just getting everything frame rate up, all that sort of stuff. *00:06* I mean it's even in Neil's um and Kurt Marginal's Twitter *00:06* They're their own vertical in under Sony. *00:06* I mean, just a coup I think last week or two weeks ago, the UI and just *00:06* We had a um at that time we had a proprietary backend at IGN called Network in a Box. *00:06* Like you kind of have to look around, but *00:06* But I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a big Naughty Dog push. *00:06* It's like, yeah, this guy's option this and he's writing this and this is what they're doing. *00:06* You you agree with that. *00:06* It kind of reminds me of the uh the great PSN outage and return, another classic. *00:06* It's cool. *00:06* And so *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* I want to say they started publishing in September of that year. *00:06* It's not going to do very well. *00:06* You don't have to cut things out for for time or content. *00:06* It's no matter what, it'll definitely be an interesting generation with the PS five. *00:06* Like I got really deep into the game and then I fucked up one of the social links. *00:06* And so in the corner of the IGN guides, you would just show like different people's like screenshots as they were playing the game because you could just capture an infinite amount of them. *00:06* I but Bruce Stray responded to me, which was kinda very nice of him, um, but that never went anywhere. *00:06* Every every game you make is a game you can't make. *00:06* Like they've resisted all of it. *00:06* I m I say this sometimes, but imagine *00:06* Right. *00:06* But I did when it was announced, I was like, I didn't I don't need this. *00:06* However, my reservation about factions is that we are seeing a downward tail in sales for The Last of Us, and I don't know if this is going to be *00:06* Uh thank you everyone for listening to this show. *00:06* Because people log in through V you know through VPNs and and and by a um from afar when they're working on games to share builds and all that. *00:06* I mean can you imagine working if I were at a studio like a middling and I don't mean as an insult, but a middling Sony studio like *00:06* You know, like what do you what do you want us to do? *00:06* And that's what's so interesting about it. *00:06* Like all the time. *00:06* And I'm not talking about game facts, just like this general movement of like internet content. *00:06* He's a little younger than me actually, and we were good friends. *00:06* But the whole *00:06* And there's something to be said about that as well. *00:06* There's a huge dispute based on our reporting at IGN about the nature of Amy Hennig's leaving. *00:06* But the longer it goes, because I was even saying to the to to our guys in our in our employee discord like *00:06* Like no one is playing games. *00:06* I mean, even look at Fortnite. *00:06* So it's gonna be interesting to see like how important their reputation is in this space. *00:06* And uh so it's it's kind of like our one-stop shop. *00:06* It's like that's just extra. *00:06* Right. *00:06* Like there's no doubt that there are people at Nix the people at Nix's love porting things to PC. *00:06* You know, we own a piece of that now if I if you're Sony. *00:06* So they're probably *00:06* It was every two years *00:06* Much shorter experience that does some experimentation, I mean. *00:06* Thousands of hours ago, you know, of content. *00:06* And I would probably watch a guide to do that, but I love written work because *00:06* I dug around on the web archive. *00:06* Like that's l literally how it worked. *00:06* He lived upstairs and he was probably amped when we left. *00:06* Horizon even had their new logo, right? *00:06* Exactly. *00:06* Um but you can follow him over on Twitter at no taxation. *00:06* I mean I was uh and then I think my I logged in a few weeks ago actually *00:06* Yeah, I I *00:06* So it's probably been twenty years or so since I've played it or a little less. *00:06* I mean, totally non-existent. *00:06* And we would sometimes submit the guides and they would do the screenshots and if they were smaller guides they would just *00:06* They would have instructions about where everything was. *00:06* It is. *00:06* I think what they expected was people were gonna say, oh, well, maybe a new infamous game or a new Sucker Punch game is coming out and *00:06* It's really late in the gen. *00:06* They can have whatever political messaging they want. *00:06* So this is like their first intentional release of a game as a service with the knowledge of Bungie and all the rest. *00:06* You know, I have my Game Facts walkthrough, I have this sh this trophy list thing I have. *00:07* Like you needed to have video of it or a screenshot or something just to *00:07* It's like *00:07* Like I don't know, man. *00:07* I I get the vibe. *00:07* Because will that be a whole PS5 generation? *00:07* Like th I wouldn't I don't blame people for being like, well *00:07* It's like, well, that's nuts, but it's possible. *00:07* They have to be very careful. *00:07* Season four here *00:07* I don't go to IGN or YouTube or anything. *00:07* So uh even even my reading, it wasn't the guide's fault. *00:07* You know, and my apartment in San Francisco was *00:07* So that whole part of the website and like the IGM blogs is *00:07* And so it caused a lot of problems where we didn't have access. *00:07* They are literally selling fewer of them than they were last quarter. *00:07* But I think *00:07* Um *00:07* We're not working on one, and we're telling you that, not Sony. *00:07* What and they asked Sony, like, what do you think? *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* I'm really looking forward to The Last of Us Part One. *00:07* And um I feel like they're I feel like there's a a market for them still to this day. *00:07* Well, that's what it's like I put quite a bit of money down, but *00:07* You've absolutely *00:07* You know, like I *00:07* I hope so. *00:07* I mean I think that *00:07* And there was like a batch publisher, but it didn't work. *00:07* You gotta get in front of the camera, you gotta write a blog. *00:07* Um but when those pieces do come up, I personally get excited because it's *00:07* You would have to be all *00:07* And so *00:07* Uh I think you have to give me one more, unfortunately. *00:07* And when I did beat him, it was great. *00:07* Like I would I would prefer to do longer games and like more procedural role-playing games than *00:07* I pay them without them invoicing me. *00:07* And these articles didn't. *00:07* Like there are no games. *00:07* So thank you all for listening. *00:07* Oh yeah. *00:07* They have a whole different vertical of guides. *00:07* Our whole crunch was *00:07* I just saw it and was like, that looks like a really good game. *00:07* Like you sit down, you play the game, and you're recording it, and then you're going back. *00:07* That was I mean *00:07* And I feel like that is what part one is. *00:07* Like that would be so stupid. *00:07* I uh so for the show I did *00:07* And I feel like Game Facts was kind of like that. *00:07* But it requires a lot of toil and like the my freelance *00:07* Because people go to PSM profiles and are often *00:07* I think they're concerned. *00:07* And I just think that that's like why wouldn't you want to be involved in that? *00:07* But *00:07* So it's interesting to see *00:07* Who wants to watch a collectibles video where it's like go from collectible A to B to C to the D? *00:07* So if it read dead, you know, if it's one particular story mission, I just record the beginning to end of that. *00:07* And I'm an I'm a fucking fossil. *00:07* And I I know because like it's like I don't blame you for doing that. *00:07* So that took time. *00:07* So I don't think he I I couldn't even believe the shit they were telling me. *00:07* And I think what Sucker Punch was kind of communicating, if you read between the lines, was like, I don't think so. *00:07* But Yeah, I don't know. *00:07* And I felt excited simply because *00:07* No, no, I have not played it. *00:07* Wherein like *00:07* And I I I think that that was kind of the end of that era of IGN. *00:07* I'll never uh I'll never uh forget the people that helped me and gave me a hand and and gave me an opportunity. *00:07* That's been my biggest concern or one of my big concerns in general is this genus cross gen stuff. *00:07* Do you *00:07* So that was Yeah, I remember doing that. *00:07* And I still go to GameFax actually every day. *00:07* I think by the end of Witcher 3, which included *00:07* Was it there before you *00:07* And that's just how it's lived on. *00:07* Interesting. *00:07* I think that'll bolster their numbers this gen. *00:07* Oh we have a Bluepoint for that. *00:07* Naughty Dog's reputation that people are ready to rip these guys apart like at at a moment's notice, no doubt. *00:07* They had a similar product. *00:07* Like we you know are *00:07* I they did it with *00:07* So it's like a di I didn't we didn't really understand that about them, so we have we still have much to learn, but *00:07* I I envision something like a squad-based. *00:07* Like m *00:07* It's how do you sustain this? *00:07* And then *00:08* I had a trip when Red Dead 2 came out. *00:08* We're doing this as a prestige piece. *00:08* Mm-hmm. *00:08* You know, like *00:08* And I also think I will I will say that I also think Strailey *00:08* So there is there is that is part of it, because I usually just play things that Sony releases at launch. *00:08* But you *00:08* I think Sucker Punch now has much more control. *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* Sony owns Bungie as like a separate thing, you know? *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* One thing that I remember *00:08* There's no other way. *00:08* It was like one of the first mass-produced screenshot things, and it was actually made for like *00:08* But essentially I could I could imagine that. *00:08* I feel like they've got to kill *00:08* Um that would be insanity for them to do that. *00:08* Um the the industry is down precipitously across everything except for subscriptions, as we saw. *00:08* Like what if that game comes from *00:08* So if I'm playing with someone else and there's like a serious thing and I'm jumping on her head *00:08* And that's kind of exciting to not know. *00:08* And for for us it was more like you have a few weeks. *00:08* I got a *00:08* You know, he told me on my show that he got a hundred million dollar offer to do you know, a a budget offer to do a game with Tencent and *00:08* And it's important to remember *00:08* There were the rumors that Last of Us was coming to Fortnite and that got shut down, which I thought was kind of funny. *00:08* Uh we had a three-bedroom apartment in San Francisco. *00:08* I think those are a dying form in media in general. *00:08* I would love to know what Bruce thinks of this project, just how he feels about it, because *00:08* I do I do not know this. *00:08* I think this is a I think this is a different sort of situation. *00:08* All the time. *00:08* Like how *00:08* So it's it's *00:08* I remember how old are you? *00:08* Like this, you know, early two thousands, late nineties, early two thousands, it's *00:08* Like we we just do it ourselves and we'll share them for free. *00:08* You don't only have to update those, but *00:08* They're making a game, but *00:08* And *00:08* 'Cause it's like, well, what is the point? *00:08* You guys actually *00:08* Nothing about any games or anything, I don't care about any of that. *00:08* We don't get super early access to like alpha builds, but *00:08* But I have the the platinum and *00:08* Bringing but bringing everything back into the house. *00:08* They'd basically be the *00:08* And *00:08* Um *00:08* That would be nuts. *00:08* And then I wasn't even thinking about working at IGN full time. *00:08* I *00:08* Like they're really *00:08* It's gotta be it gotta it's gotta work. *00:08* How *00:08* And then pick up the game controller, play the game for a minute, pause, right? *00:08* A lot of people don't want to read these things and they want to have *00:08* It's an interesting thought. *00:08* So that's I see potential there. *00:08* Can there be an can there be a second a a separate spin-off game or something put into the original games or *00:08* I'm amped about it, but *00:08* I hope you have a wonderful rest of your day. *00:08* But *00:08* I think I unified them something in like the summer of 2001 or something like that. *00:08* Um *00:08* And get all, you know, get let's *00:08* I don't know what that was all about. *00:08* Yeah, that that's a great point. *00:08* Very very interesting. *00:08* You know, your username on PSN Moriarty-IGN *00:08* And I just had dinner with him in San Francisco and I mean not just, but when I was there, you know, five, six years ago *00:08* But I don't know that that quite fits here, because I just think that *00:08* Crash 1, 2, 3, and Racing, Jack 1, 2, 3 and Racing. *00:08* You know, I I remember seeing that 'cause I remember they showed that at PSX. *00:08* Okay. *00:08* It might start with an idea world or an idea of a mechanic or even more recently a certain feeling that we're after. *00:08* Um, but that was fairly rare. *00:08* And there's a quote from from Neil in it. *00:08* If you would like uh to follow Colin on Twitter, he pretty much *00:08* He's been on my podcast bucket list for years. *00:08* I I think this is something they're doing to kind of *00:08* For Horizon the first horizon game with a one in it. *00:08* They need to unencumber that talent. *00:08* com slash laststandmedia. *00:08* It wasn't like they were looking for anything. *00:09* And *00:09* I actually *00:09* And so Barry's one of us. *00:09* No. *00:09* Yes. *00:09* So The Last of Us had come out in June, and then you know, Rising to Greatness started trickling out. *00:09* You can just *00:09* Yeah. *00:09* That was that was those were during the more sober days of PSN where it was like a little more fun. *00:09* That didn't even exist until ten years ago or so where you can use HTML and guides. *00:09* Like I think The Last of Us Part II is their best game. *00:09* And *00:09* I try to read like capture the time period of the way. *00:09* I'm I like almost like the books more than the game sometimes. *00:09* It's it was writing guides was a real struggle just because you had a *00:09* So that's you know the PS4. *00:09* Like they got one *00:09* And Sony was like, we don't like it. *00:09* I think that would be fucking crazy. *00:09* It was like to hook up TV and watch it on your computer and then people were using it to play games. *00:09* I give them bonuses and *00:09* I don't know if you've ever read or listened to it. *00:09* We you know w I don't n we have a Valkyrie for art assets now. *00:09* It's like *00:09* MudKip, the Pokemon. *00:09* And and my account was made like twenty one years ago or something like that. *00:09* But I was really attracted to strategy guides as a kid, too. *00:09* But *00:09* But I kinda do remember this. *00:09* Um *00:09* And when you pair that with the PS5 *00:09* And it's like, well, why is like it's so secret in games? *00:09* It would be horrible for my business, but I I the and theirs *00:09* Like *00:09* This isn't making us any money. *00:09* I didn't even finish it. *00:09* And uh *00:09* I'm just surprised that no one came in and said like, well *00:09* So, you know, Ben's involved with this in some way. *00:09* That seems a bit too long. *00:09* And *00:09* There are people that are much more capable by the way of doing those things than you, which are the you're the creators. *00:09* It it anything's possible when it *00:09* Why? *00:09* Um I'm I want to be clear about this. *00:09* I I I kinda read it as them not wanting to be associated with that game, but that would be *00:09* It's interesting to hear Greg's voice too. *00:09* I think it's so fun. *00:09* I'm disconnected from that now. *00:09* I feel like part one was under development somewhere else. *00:09* You know, like you're just all all we're gonna get is continued complaints about how no one can find the console. *00:09* Uh you mentioned earlier *00:09* Welcome to the show. *00:09* And so then you're just condensing everything. *00:09* Now this is a readjustment from *00:09* Oh he was probably amped up. *00:09* Like *00:09* Like *00:09* It's like no. *00:09* And I you can see they're nibbling around the edges. *00:09* Right. *00:10* And so I think they know their audience better than that. *00:10* I don't know. *00:10* And like he said, last stand media, sacred symbols. *00:10* It's like another world. *00:10* It's almost trivial now and video *00:10* Yeah, it's so funny. *00:10* I took the PS4 and my laptop and capture and everything with me. *00:10* I mean it's it just might not be possible based on *00:10* I'm I'm *00:10* I did something wrong, but *00:10* And there was something really *00:10* I am 28. *00:10* And *00:10* We had a bad relationship with an audio dog at that time because of our reporting. *00:10* Their whole engine and just development process *00:10* Like I didn't do it in time and so I like missed that whole sil silver trophy and then I'm like *00:10* They just had to get it done. *00:10* And so I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with working hard and *00:10* And that's the Bruce Traily we want. *00:10* And we're over here making fucking dreams on PS4. *00:10* Because I just feel like I rushed through it at the time and I just wasn't really enjoying it. *00:10* Like comp I I don't think I wouldn't want to make gods like that and I wouldn't *00:10* Um *00:10* Right. *00:10* But I would love for them to *00:10* And then you hear, oh, there's a multiplayer game on the way. *00:10* That's just *00:10* Would I just play the game? *00:10* I I *00:10* I'm like, yes. *00:10* We've got the Legacy of Thieves collection. *00:10* But *00:10* We're going to do four probably this fall. *00:10* Like just like what were you saying about what you did last night or who *00:10* Like I'm not gonna take credit for that because Mark R Mark Ryan's much smarter than me, but that was like *00:10* I'm sure they probably put that shit on PS3 if they could, but it's like *00:10* End quote. *00:10* Like it's gotta really work. *00:10* It's just to say like IGN is the home of *00:10* And that paid dividends, obviously. *00:10* I I think people are expecting like some *00:10* And wild. *00:10* I've said in the past there are like legendarily good *00:10* It's just I have no time. *00:10* It sounds funny 'cause it's four years ago, but it was uh *00:10* There was just no no replacement of *00:10* I just think it's gonna be more from boutique sources, and I don't think *00:10* And they did take certain things off the record. *00:10* From like Decima *00:10* I vote in their poll. *00:10* That *00:10* So they're locked in. *00:10* And I think that that's kind of lost. *00:10* I don't it doesn't seem sustainable forever. *00:10* Okay. *00:10* I was the same way. *00:10* Like I I don't talk to Neil about *00:10* Definitely. *00:10* And it had this real *00:11* Yeah, I wrote kind of the PS4 times, so I kinda *00:11* Um not only for Naughty Doc but their other studios and stuff. *00:11* Years, coasts, hours *00:11* It's like they're just *00:11* I can't even *00:11* He was probably stoked. *00:11* That's like what they do. *00:11* I don't hear him too much anymore. *00:11* And I knew *00:11* And now *00:11* net. *00:11* M-U-D-K-I-P-143. *00:11* In Halo. *00:11* But *00:11* Um but what do you *00:11* But I would agree. *00:11* And *00:11* He's an inspiration of mine both professionally and personally. *00:11* I had *00:11* It was and everyone was like amped up *00:11* We used to get paid two hundred dollars uh when I started for Strategy Guides and *00:11* I but I think that that *00:11* I kind of have given up that had given up that um *00:11* And *00:11* And so I did allow certain things. *00:11* Nib. *00:11* Because *00:11* Yeah *00:11* We don't want the *00:11* Because I had a originally had a different account. *00:12* But do you miss that? *00:12* I think they're trying to get their ducks in a row. *00:12* And Bungie is the same thing. *00:12* It's annoying. *00:12* And *00:12* And that's how it was. *00:12* That sounds horrifying probably to most of a game studio. *00:12* So *00:12* Like print strategy guides. *00:12* And I just *00:12* Yeah *00:12* Same with um Taylor. *00:12* And I think GameFacts is kind of *00:12* Do you still do that? *00:12* That's way after me. *00:12* It'll be very exciting and um *00:12* And they know that too. *00:12* That's how guides were written. *00:12* It just *00:13* But *00:13* And *00:13* I just went *00:13* Um *00:13* I live for them. *00:13* But they were pretty *00:13* It's like, well *00:13* So *00:13* It's *00:14*