# [[MFP21 - “It Should be Intimidating” with Riley Testut]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome to the Max Frequency Podcast. *00:00* It's kind of fine. *00:00* Yeah, they were and just not as good quality. *00:00* I like don't use it. *00:00* Hey also, Riley who's like been doing this stuff has some thoughts. *00:00* But I was like, the iPad here, they're trying to make a computer. *00:00* or a way to discover all these third-party apps? *00:00* Which I think has like an hour and a half battery life. *00:00* And so if they did something similar here, then if you can silo to the iPhone, you should be able to silo to the to the headset. *00:00* And it's part of the sell is stuff on your iPhone comes on your Mac, it's on your iPad, it's on your watch, your AirPods transition between everything. *00:00* Yes. *00:00* And play with supermodel. *00:00* I was like, how do you do that? *00:00* An A Mac app or anything. *00:00* Uh we made it happen. *00:00* Yeah, I just again just extremely happy with it. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* And so I think they're just approaching all this, or the the people that want third-party app stores just are approaching it from a completely different set of like priorities and *00:00* They're ri all these other app stores like Meta or Epic, they're really just trying to get a slice of the pie and like just make more money for themselves, even though it's not better for users to now have to go different places. *00:00* I understand. *00:00* to do different things or try different things out and play with software in unique ways and phones are really only called phones out of habit. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* And so I think that's just like a really important safety net if you're getting rid of human review. *00:00* versus the siloading can be pitched like hey your friend just made an app on their iPad with SIFT UI They don't want to put it in the app store. *00:00* There's a group message or maybe they're in free form and they drag their app in there. *00:00* Oh I and you know, if Apple realizes they have to allow third party stores, I think that's what will make them do it. *00:00* And in that world, I don't see them promoting it whatsoever. *00:00* In script's big, but are they that strong? *00:00* f meta would do that. *00:00* But this side loading process and what it could look like. *00:00* But man, I've seen firsthand from running like Alt store, people don't read. *00:00* But if there's an app someone wants, they will just follow a tutorial and they will just say yes to very scary alerts without even processing the danger. *00:00* I say all that now because before our show yesterday, I was like, I need to I'll reinstall Alt Store Delta Dolphin, see what that see if it's as easy as I remember it being *00:00* And I gotta tell you, man, it is. *00:00* So I expect that to go away. *00:00* So I expect you to be able to decide with more than three apps. *00:00* A port of Dolphin on iOS that's not a part of the official actually alt store is uh allows you to put Dolphin on your phone, which is so much fun. *00:00* Like stupid stuff like that, and that you ask someone why do you need that? *00:00* And I just have to tap uh not tap, I have to pat both of you on the back. *00:00* Just we just want like these quirky little apps to get that like just just push the boundaries in weird ways that aren't like full-fledged like production apps. *00:00* There was nothing on the website. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Truly our past endeavor for the past six months was like, okay. *00:00* to show a lot. *00:00* For Alt Store to be. *00:00* And so I think a smaller market will actually just be more fun for that. *00:00* get in here and play and have fun or do unique things. *00:00* A lot of these rumors make it sound weird, but it m I don't think Apple would would release a weird product. *00:00* Cables aren't fun. *00:00* Uh that's like that you hear a battery pack and it's a step back, but it makes it last longer theoretically than the quest, certainly longer, I would think, than the meta quest pro. *00:00* I've I'd certain I think just even for just to say that it had it, even if I was never gonna really make it a full supported thing, like hey, this is for fun. *00:00* I think the headset would be an amazing fit for Delta personally. *00:00* And they were saying, hey, if you connect your open source app to our service, you can sign it with our certificate and anyone can download it as if they're part of our company. *00:00* They shut down certificate and then there was a weird bug I exploited, but anyway, they shut it down within a year, and so I was like, okay. *00:00* All this is because I just wanted to be making a Nintendo emulator. *00:00* we exactly replicate all the nuances of these old hardware systems and get perfect emulation and accuracy. *00:00* like NES emulator now. *00:00* emulator and Swift. *00:00* in Delta because I would bet strongly that the headset will require Swift UI for actual like full experiences. *00:00* And peek and pop is the thing I miss the most. *00:00* With yeah, I get not Nintendo, but well these days NSO you can get Genesis games, so *00:00* The dream was always to like get an Apple Design Award for your app and just to make an experience that like could be displayed at WWDC or something like that. *00:00* But then especially for like emulators, I was just like so painfully aware of how ugly and technical and just like really intimidating the emulator *00:00* They kinda look jank if you ever like use these systems and I'm like ah I like that I'm playing these games but like I just really feel like so many people aren't even trying emulators out because they're deterred by how hacky your tech built feels. *00:00* Yeah you allow skins to change the control scheme which is I the skins, yeah. *00:00* skin I had. *00:00* Hey Caroline, we're adding a new system to Delta. *00:00* I don't know if you remember my tweet from, I think it was a year ago. *00:00* Hold down two buttons to either turn the two joy plans into one controller or you can separate them out into two. *00:00* Yeah, when I had that working, it's like I also was like, yeah, this is I mean it is my favorite system in Delta. *00:00* The iPhone has the camera, so if I wanted to add like DSI support, I could make like the DSI. *00:00* or playing through Pokemon heart gold or diamond or whatever and just like investing so much time in that because again also the DS is great so great for iPhone. *00:00* Because it's like portable. *00:00* Uh I would love to add all Nintendo systems on an infinite timescale. *00:00* It's a platform other developers are using and so I'm like oh I have to make sure that other people are also able to use it. *00:00* I'm like, okay. *00:00* If you wanna catch up with stuff there. *00:00* You actually I'll load it up. *00:00* It definitely will. *00:00* Getting it to getting it to people out there would be hard, but nah. *00:00* Yeah, so it's awesome. *00:00* He'd have insight information or just have great insights. *00:00* Hey Max, thanks for having me on here. *00:00* Uh I reached out, I think, in December. *00:00* Oh wow. *00:00* from I think German had written a piece that day or weekend or something that was basically saying the EU is going to force Apple to allow side loading either stores or just loading apps to the side. *00:00* semi-blessed by Apple because you're using techniques, the tools they've provided. *00:00* The underlying point. *00:00* Apple's 30% and turn it into their 30% or 12 or 15 or whatever it is. *00:00* Or just that the fact that App Review is all or nothing. *00:00* just for video games. *00:00* world than when the iPhone first came out as well. *00:00* Game Pass totally official. *00:00* They couldn't have done it for Netflix, but they can do it for this because it's a new paradigm. *00:00* Apps with widgets in like the notification center and be like, oh, you can't put like interactive widgets in there. *00:00* When Apple like rejects something that they just don't think matches their idea for the platform. *00:00* And mistakenly saying like I was eighteen sometimes. *00:00* do like a press release or something like that closer to the real release date. *00:00* Meta, Amazon, Exactly. *00:00* It's easy to see them positioning it as something like that. *00:00* Let's say Meta makes their own store, which I think would be is almost fact. *00:00* Like is the pull of Instagram, I guess, so strong that they could leave the app store and m force their user base, which has to be predominantly iOS, to move *00:00* in a way that like people wouldn't want to do it. *00:00* And again, why I think Epic will definitely try to get Spotify in their store on something like that. *00:00* And I gotta say, that experience was miserable. *00:00* They could get people to switch over to it. *00:00* And so it was just crap. *00:00* Like that easily. *00:00* I so one of the things I say is like using a computer, so I think that's one way just to add friction. *00:00* I'd imagine something like you reboot your phone into like a DFU mode or something like that, and then you like do a terminal command or like *00:00* Some like something like that level where it's like you can still follow the process, but it's scary to non-technical people. *00:00* are people that like know about all this stuff and are willing to like take those risks in the first place and understand it. *00:00* Well you're saying you're saying my grandmother shouldn't be playing her uh NES ROMs on her. *00:00* Some hoops you have to jump through. *00:00* I uh I reviewed Delta and kind of futzed around with it. *00:00* Pretty ridiculous. *00:00* So the specific things I expect to change from like what I'm dealing with now is the seven days going away. *00:00* to make that work and but there's like a maximum of ten and it's rolling over a seven day basis and it's so confusing to explain to people. *00:00* Why can't I install this app? *00:00* And I think it'll be like not definitely not as convenient as the app store. *00:00* Do things that maybe Apple doesn't want you to do to get like the best result. *00:00* I've settled into most of the stuff that I do and then if there was the or not even if when the side loading world becomes reality there will be things that I do download like a Delta. *00:00* Stopping like cool innovative stuff like this. *00:00* I mean, but then the iPads now have the M2 just sitting in them. *00:00* The iPad. *00:00* I switch emulation running full speed on your iPad right now if you just like let people push their boundaries. *00:00* And the performance gains alone in the emulator were phenomenal. *00:00* I get that Apple wants to control it, but if you're trying to use an iPad for productivity, we should be allowing developers to make product like yeah, productivity apps for the iPad to do all do like again like address all these shortcomings of it. *00:00* And I'm that's one of the things I'm honestly the most excited for. *00:00* like recently. *00:00* Uh I feel obligated to, I should say, bring up the documentation for Alt Store. *00:00* managing all this. *00:00* One of his like first priorities was like we need to build up this documentation. *00:00* Yeah, that would I think that would be ideal. *00:00* It's gotten stale. *00:00* making Mastodon clients and like the developer ecosystems really just like big on Mastodon. *00:00* Oh wait, whoa. *00:00* Long story short, I'm like laying on the floor in my apartment trying to stay close to where all this stuff's plugged in all nicely to make Zelda on my face work. *00:00* So VR I'm excited to see what they do. *00:00* Coming a PSVR one is I don't know two cables from the headset into the processor and then that's a whole mess behind the TV. *00:00* You know, almost like a an Xbox controller where you just pop in double A's and you're good to go. *00:00* of whatever this headset is, which sounds pretty technologically advanced and and dense up there. *00:00* Uh uh I'm still not convinced this is like gonna be something I wear all day. *00:00* and interacting in this space, you know. *00:00* and excited to see what they have been cooking up over the past however many years they've been working on this. *00:00* Like all we can think of like is basically like pointers and stuff, and I'm like, is uh is Apple just gonna be point at things and then click just no, I feel like I would bet on one more immersion tactic like *00:00* I don't know, reaching out doing stuff, but who knows. *00:00* And yeah, because I'm imagining easy just put screens any everywhere. *00:00* Or something like that. *00:00* Roughly similar. *00:00* They won't allow side loading because the laws say you need to allow side loading for headsets. *00:00* I s I agree with you. *00:00* It would feel very strange if every other platform could load apps from other places, how whatever those means are, except the headset. *00:00* Game Boy Advance Games. *00:00* I don't think the law requires it, and as much as I want to put Delta on the Apple TV, because I think it'd be perfect, I don't see them allowing that. *00:00* I was like looking for a new thing to work on and I came across like old open source code base for like a jailbreak app that lets you play like Game Boy advanced. *00:00* Or whatever. *00:00* This is like back in like 20, I don't know, 2013? *00:00* I want like to make a a real like emulator app that I dedicate all my time to to make it really polished. *00:00* And like make a personal project, like build up this cool emulator and see where it goes. *00:00* I understand that it's a gray area, but I will do anything. *00:00* because I had invested so much time into Delta, knowing that there's a market for it, and two what I thought knowing that I'd be able to distribute it in the App Store. *00:00* Oh, I mean I want to touch on the DS, but before we get specifically to that, what is it like building an emulator? *00:00* You have to understand how to read these games, portray them accurately to some degree, allow for different things. *00:00* Cores that I'm using. *00:00* My background is an iOS app developer. *00:00* It was wrapping that open source existing code base and then wrapping it into like an app that I can write. *00:00* Banking on the future for Apple platform specifically. *00:00* So I first of all uh it really does mean a lot that you're saying that it feels like an Apple app, because that is really what I always strive for. *00:00* seen can be to people. *00:00* Or like they'll give you all the options you could possibly imagine for your emulation setup. *00:00* Small things like that, I think, made a huge difference to people. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Emulators just will pull it in and it'll just have a question mark. *00:00* You shouldn't let people like customize this. *00:00* Wait, you're right. *00:00* Yeah, be using a real NES or like yeah the N64 skin as well like how can I possibly put all these buttons onto a touch screen in a way that can also look good *00:00* I understand why emulators don't look great because man, I could I would not be able to produce these beautiful skins like she can. *00:00* And yeah, it just makes me more confident using touchscreen controls. *00:00* Maybe still being rolled out support for it. *00:00* Thank you, Apple. *00:00* And so that to me is like yeah, the game controller stuff is what makes emulation worth it. *00:00* It's not the same immersion. *00:00* The DS is so perfect for Delta that I really wanted to take a lot of time to make sure I could really capture that experience as best as I could. *00:00* was exploring Delta as an option to maybe stream or capture some DS gameplay footage. *00:00* it wasn't feasible with that the current setup. *00:00* No yeah. *00:00* And Game Boy 2. *00:00* And in a world where the 3DS eShop is gone, the Wii U eShop's gone, which the Wii U had DS some DS games, it just *00:00* I'm curious the benefits that you've noticed, if any, I don't uh what they would be of apple silicon. *00:00* And so then that would work on Intel Macs anyway. *00:00* added support for like the M1 Max or like I said earlier, the Switch Emlet or Righty Jinx, however you say it, they added support for M1 Max. *00:00* It'll be way easier to get to iPhone, which wasn't always the case before. *00:00* And so I think it's just more of going to the future. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* the 3DS emulator scene get on the Apple Silicon Train and maybe we can see Citra in uh in Delta someday. *00:00* Dedicating that's honestly the hardest part about writing alt store in Delta right now is Delta's my passion. *00:00* about the future of Delta Alt Store. *00:00* Time to prepare the way, as some may say. *00:00* Uh just let the people know what's going on. *00:00* when articles go up. *00:00* No, he did like a Ocarina of Time essay about four years ago called um Ocarina of Time a master class in subtext. *00:00* I talked with him and part of my research was his videos have like widescreen Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. *00:00* And like installing that on my Mac is super hacky. *00:00* We're really missing out on like the basic like things here. *00:00* I I know, yeah. *00:00* To see your name on uh Daring Fireball when Gruber wrote up about it. *00:00* extremely just like surreal. *00:00* It feels like the year to be talking about it. *00:00* in the first place. *00:00* Essentially is is your you would prefer just plain old traditional side loading rather than letting *00:00* Their incentives just don't align with what makes the iPhone honestly so great for like so many people. *00:00* Stuff like that. *00:00* Pretty much only care about that. *00:00* Apple needs to just chill out a little bit with like all these like ridiculous ways of controlling the App Store. *00:00* And exactly, it's like we're seeing that it can't last forever. *00:00* opening up iOS to a degree or iPad OS to a degree, mostly because legislation is kicking in from Absolutely not because they want to. *00:00* Where they allow external payments, but then still require what 27%. *00:00* And you know what? *00:00* Because that gives them a lot of power to like reactively like shut down malware and stuff like that. *00:00* That really actually was like stealing user data. *00:00* While review while notarizing these apps, they can maybe say, hey, this app actually has some malware embedded in it, and they can stop it before it ever gets distributed in the first place. *00:00* So do you see does does that get announced at WWDC this summer? *00:00* Or they do actually just do the third-party app store things where Meta can have a store and Amazon can have a store. *00:00* Now from the Finder you can drag in an app that your friend sent you with one drag it can be installed to your phone. *00:00* I can't see them spinning third-party app stores in any way that like is positive for them. *00:00* to my mind, a more positive message directly to developers. *00:00* But it's like if they were to announce third-party stores, they'd have to announce why that's good. *00:00* Epic's a grand return to the app store in the middle of their lawsuit. *00:00* Instagram or something like that. *00:00* last year uh um to just kind of futz around with Android and get a gauge on that ecosystem. *00:00* And so that's where I'm like, I don't think that's enough. *00:00* People don't really appreciate how valuable that is as a tool. *00:00* It's a huge deterrent because I had a reminder in my phone and eventually it was like I'm just uh I gotta let it go. *00:00* Because people can go through the process one time. *00:00* Either the app or the app extension. *00:00* I just everything's been collected over time. *00:00* really rejecting or holding back because they're being creative about certain like iOS limitations or they're using certain like beneficial features, which I get in a perfect world Apple doesn't want, but sometimes the real world you to make like a production app you need to *00:00* unlock potential for users and developers. *00:00* for like the M1 Mac. *00:00* They would have to just do it they do it for the iPad only. *00:00* Make a quick make a quick GitHub project to test out a feature, put it out, let some people install it, and then if people like it, then they know to go after it. *00:00* questions themselves. *00:00* It's the steps are awesome. *00:00* Delta. *00:00* And so yeah. *00:00* Again, like inf like information being dropped, like an alt sort shows that little alert. *00:00* I'm glad it's working. *00:00* have the dedicated users to make the space separate from Twitter. *00:00* VR side, but we'll see. *00:00* God, I know. *00:00* the middle of this engineering building. *00:00* So there's either something like the rumors aren't like fully grasping, or it's like we're missing the full picture. *00:00* I don't know. *00:00* comfortable enough like that. *00:00* No, part of that full picture you're talking about is arguably the best thing Apple is known for, which is their marriage of hardware and software. *00:00* That maybe they're like, you know what, it's not tied to the iPhone. *00:00* A dominant thing, they could be like, eh, it's not your primary computing device, whatever. *00:00* I would think there'd be some side loading either though maybe it'd have to be another law. *00:00* Yeah, or just something I made while in high school just because I wanted to play Game Boy games on my phone. *00:00* apps or classic yeah video games on uh the iPhone and so I learned from that and then Apple eventually shut that down because I was using *00:00* And so I was going into college that year. *00:00* was Swift was announced. *00:00* But I believe them. *00:00* Dedicate all my time to it. *00:00* And just to catch him up on how I was doing. *00:00* I I really wanted to make sure that DS was working well on the iPhone, so I would go into that I went into that code base and would make a lot some changes to like optimize it for iPhone. *00:00* More stuff like that. *00:00* Because of it's very performant but also really nice to write. *00:00* Because right now I've like done like ways to put my emulators in Swift playgrounds, but they require like compiling to like WebAssembly and like running it through a web browser, and it's really hacky. *00:00* I'm using I'm not using metal yet. *00:00* The well the real reason I think I wanted to be I'm using all like these newer APIs are the Apple first APIs or writing my own core in Swift is *00:00* I think that's just what the future looks like for Apple platforms is more and more like you're gonna be having having to use their APIs or stuff like that. *00:00* I'm like, if I have a Swift NES emulator, that will always be available to run on Apple platforms. *00:00* Modern and updated for like Apple platforms. *00:00* is just Swift. *00:00* But yeah, just all this to that. *00:00* Delta has this Apple touch to it. *00:00* I've always been really inspired to just make really great apps that could be like a level of that, another level of Apple. *00:00* didn't like play using emulators that just seemed so like that seemed like tools. *00:00* This is what emul what what emulation could be like. *00:00* And when you have a touch screen, eh it's hard to fully recreate that. *00:00* But then we were able to do that. *00:00* Oh yeah, I absolutely will. *00:00* Hey for sure, I can't imagine playing without it because you just don't realize how much a game like you kind of rely on knowing that the button was pressed. *00:00* Just knowing that it happened. *00:00* I s I'm I love it so much. *00:00* So how has that controller support been in general, just yeah, outside of a Nintendo I'm uh because n Apple supports the PlayStation controller, the Xbox, and while you don't have cores for those, those controllers can be used. *00:00* I'm glad I did, but yeah. *00:00* This is like when it matters now. *00:00* Truly the icing on the cake. *00:00* some sort of technical thing. *00:00* Yeah, I it's I love it. *00:00* Which is not always the same for like an N64 game, which I mean Delta supports, but you want to play that more at home generally is what I'm learning. *00:00* specifically to Delta, as they've made this transition in their Macs. *00:00* I wanna say the 4S something. *00:00* Or refresh. *00:00* I'm already planning to do like a dedicated like Mac catalyst port that's like to make a real experience, not just like an iPhone app on the Mac. *00:00* Versus so I think we'll see a lot more of that where just by nature the fact that iPhone and Mac are now the same, whenever an emulator is ported to Mac. *00:00* It'd be very hard to port a full performance like Intel-based dolphin to the ARM-based iPad and get all the performance you want. *00:00* Awesome. *00:00* a seasonal podcast where we bounce back and forth between games or movies exploring their evolution, design, and legacy. *00:00* Which was on the GameCube, you know. *00:00* So uh you can check out that season. *00:00* So I g okay, so it's actually up. *00:00* See this this is what I'm talking about. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Exactly. *00:00* called out your Twitter thread, which I had read previously. *00:00* That is such a compliment from Gruber. *00:00* You as the developer of Alt Store, the I safest feels weird, not quite right, but you you have the most official way to load apps onto your phone without jailbreaking. *00:00* competitors just open up ton of stores and then fill those stores with exclusive apps using money to leverage that. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* On iOS. *00:00* Right. *00:00* into this other segmented pie of installing and managing and updating apps. *00:00* a strong pull to be able to get people to switch from the app store because they're not going to lose their Spotify library or they're or they want to. *00:00* installing through the app on the phone, but there's all these warnings and complicated language and you have to make sure you get the right file with pick it's a mess over there. *00:00* I'm really split though on the security alerts because everyone suggests it and everyone says it *00:00* Okay. *00:00* The thing though with Delta, and it's not your fault at all, it's the thing with Alt Store and just in general, is this seven-day kind of you have to re-sign it. *00:00* should be more difficult than the way you currently, for example, have it set up? *00:00* Apple did it to prevent anyone from doing something like AltStore. *00:00* And I don't think p the the bulk of people's apps on their phones would be coming from a side-loaded means. *00:00* Like tap into your iPad a bit more. *00:00* And see how limited the iPad is. *00:00* Because it's too often you're like, oh, I can't do this workflow on the iPad. *00:00* And now they've been like, oh no, the app store has to be like for all these things that like are really important or like have a business side or anything, oh, that are gonna make money. *00:00* Yeah, I I think that actually leads pretty perfectly into your own app, your Delta. *00:00* And then hope that it has a market. *00:00* I didn't even I was f clicking around altstar. *00:00* method of playing. *00:00* And I trust Apple. *00:00* Rough. *00:00* the quest, it's lighter on the face, especially in front of your eyes. *00:00* I guess I'm just concerned that I just don't want the product to be released before it was ready. *00:00* Virtual boy emulator? *00:00* Again, the go through the effort of doing it, you can sideload a Virtual Boy emulator onto your quest too. *00:00* So I think Delta on the headset would be nice. *00:00* That could get busy. *00:00* And annoying. *00:00* But then what changed that for me was I think a few months after I started working on it, it was dub I went to WWDC and I had like a meeting with the app review team there. *00:00* Our problem with it is that it's like an open pipeline of games. *00:00* approved games. *00:00* So and I so with Apple's blessing, I was like, cool, I'm actually now gonna treat this more seriously. *00:00* outside of App Store. *00:00* What is that process like? *00:00* It's a skill set I want to like my long long term goal would be I would love to write one of the cores for Delta myself. *00:00* metal and other Apple APIs and tools, right? *00:00* It's probably the safe camp to be in. *00:00* I in GBA for iOS I use the word ROM. *00:00* About Delta. *00:00* Well, I mean I we also gotta say though your skins, the defaults are beautiful. *00:00* It could just be a transparent button map like most iOS games are today. *00:00* such a beautifully like recreated skin that also like works on the iPhone. *00:00* So I I bought that and I was really excited for it. *00:00* Yes, touchscreen's great, but now that you can use real game controllers that you probably already own, that's way better. *00:00* Awesome. *00:00* They had the best run. *00:00* prevent people from sticking into a a product in my opinion. *00:00* the upscaling capabilities and just I know. *00:00* But okay, we'll see. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Aggressively, especially when you would have companies like Meta and Epic throwing millions of dollars in and just totally ripping it apart. *00:00* Their platform and their business. *00:00* Then it's impossible to get the app in any way. *00:00* Today, what a kid thinks of as a phone is not what we think of as a phone. *00:00* almost as little as they can to comply with, but I would bet exactly on that. *00:00* They have to comply by twenty twenty-four, which would indicate iOS seventeen. *00:00* Because I have been thinking about it a lot. *00:00* I it if I were to guess, if they chose a siloading path where the just you can silo one-off apps, I can very easily see them framing it, spinning it as like, oh, this is a cool new Mac OS feature. *00:00* I I'm just trying to I'm trying to picture because I you you listen to I listen to Upgrade or something and Jason Snell talks about *00:00* too much to like try to get through. *00:00* I uh when was it? *00:00* And I mean three clicks later, I'm in and done. *00:00* Do you think so obviously you design th the the way to take advantage of Apple's own process. *00:00* more powerful video editing or audio editing software come to the eye. *00:00* But the Switch emulator RyuJinx or whatever, they just ported their Switch emulator to Mac. *00:00* I don't know. *00:00* Until that happens, yeah. *00:00* Looking forward to this year with Apple. *00:00* But some people figured out how to take the original PSVR and it's just mismash of cables and plug it into a switch dock, but also plug it into a PS4. *00:00* Pinch to Zoom, you know? *00:00* So Delta, we've talked about it here and there, the origin of Delta, GBA4 iOS. *00:00* Just coincidentally around that time, there was a service called MacBuild Server that said, hey, we have enterprise certificates, which are like the things you can buy from Apple for companies to distribute apps internally. *00:00* Turns out people really wanted to do that. *00:00* I I understood, but I was really pissed up that I'd been let on. *00:00* I have not written these from the ground up, but from working on it now for a long time, I've learned a lot about how it works under the hood because I've now had it gone multiple times. *00:00* Another thing that Apple now supports pretty officially is game controllers, which would be the next step away from it *00:00* the best showcasing of how emulation can be done in a way for newer platforms that take advantage of like new like all of the iPhone's capabilities. *00:00* It just feels natural and right. *00:00* Delta stands out as the way to play, I would say. *00:00* We've already started seeing emulators start to add support for Mac OS and the ARM-based Mac OS. *00:00* We will be moving to Mastodon very soon because I personally am also on Twitter at Riley Testut, but I've stopped posting there too. *00:00* It still should exist, I feel like. *00:00* If they can get away with it, I would not be surprised if they just did want 30% of alternative app store purchases. *00:00* And I guess if it was just the sideloading route that seems to have a *00:00* I think that could be enough to get people to switch for that or something like that. *00:00* The process could overall would be similar. *00:00* It's and I think also the the power that these devices have now. *00:00* It just yeah. *00:00* And sometimes it just doesn't quite work. *00:00* So Apple headset tangent, we'll bridge it into Delta here. *00:00* Hey, I'm working on this emulator and is there any way at all that I can put this in the App Store? *00:00* And so just for Apple to then say, nope, actually you can't do anything with it. *00:00* I don't want to feel like a sh like thrown together whatever, like just like I don't know, crappy apps. *00:00* Between like the really advanced technical people who want this and also like the Apple lovers who really like polished experiences. *00:00* You d one of the things I love about Delta is when you pull in your game or your ROM but your game and you load art for it right away. *00:00* most emulators I would argue don't have and just their visual appearance. *00:00* With stored also a lot of Delta stuff. *00:00* So I'll say uh there probably isn't that much direct anything I'm noticing yet because I think the biggest *00:00* I I I agree with you. *00:00* But you can but it's not allowed in the App Store. *00:00* I love him. *00:00* What happens to Alt Store? *00:00* Is this now the time? *00:00* And so that was just really frustrating, upsetting, just I felt all the emotions. *00:00* Like so amazing. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* An Apple app. *00:00* You're right. *00:00* wrapper uh skin of a controller that feels like the console that you're playing. *00:00* Yeah, that was Apple thankfully has made it easy to at least add decent game controller support because I've I've supported game controllers back from when it was just like the MFI controllers that Apple allowed. *00:00* But then just when Apple finally, yeah, when they announced the PlayStation controllers and the Xbox controller support, that to me was an eye like, okay. *00:00* The touch, the touch screen on the VS, you have to be able to touch clicking with a mouse is not the same. *00:00* expecting since launching Alt Stor or so I've been expecting like this to eventually happen since before I launch Alt Store, but it's really surreal to actually like now see it actually happening. *00:00* I just installed so my previous guest on the show was Javid Sterlett. *00:00* Oh, so it's not telling me hit F one, but if I do hit F one, then the men Oh yeah. *00:00* Do w how do you see that compared to what Apple could potentially do? *00:00* And so we're like, hold on. *00:00* I mean flat out, I think this is the best way to emulate a DS game. *00:00* And so when they make it for Mac, just the iPad will get those benefits down the road. *00:00* Whatever. *00:00* It's so strange. *00:00* So and I was like, oh, you know it'd be really cool if I could just like hack this thing together and get it to compile and put on my own phone so that I can just be playing *00:00* Huge Nintendo fan, if you can't tell. *00:00* But there's cheats, there's tools, you could load a randomizer. *00:00* It works. *00:00* Apple's never gonna allow it. *00:00* And the remote shutdown if needed later on. *00:00* And because I think there can be a strong market there that can coexist with the app store. *00:00* Oh my god. *00:00* And so he pitched me hard and he like designed like five different skins for me. *00:00* There will be links to all of that in the show notes. *00:00* It's why I didn't jailbreak. *00:00* Like little me, like let yeah, teenager Riley who just started his journey was like, oh, that's really awesome. *00:00* like that awful. *00:00* Duly knows. *00:00* My Mac is different because I've been using a Mac for, I don't know, since I was in eighth grade. *00:00* Revival, maybe too strong of a word, but in the development and ingenuity seen around iOS and iPad OS, once things open up, I it's kind of what it feels like to me. *00:00* When Nintendo released the Labo patch for Breath of the Wild, you can play Breath of the Wild and stereoscopic 3D, but you gotta have this tablet strapped to your face. *00:00* That's why the Quest 2 is so successful. *00:00* That's true. *00:00* See, I'm just like a a little snob, it's like, oh, when I use software that looks like that, I almost like *00:00* It's just another thing like I have time for. *00:00* That's also just like so much of the Apple sphere talking about right now. *00:01* What an amazing gift you gave me. *00:01* You can just put it in your phone or put it in your pocket and then if you're out and about, you could just pick it up and play a like a few minutes of the DS game. *00:01* It's just it yeah, it's the same thing though. *00:01* That I deal with because like I don't have another choice. *00:01* Like I fell in love with the iPhone back when like apps were new and the people were experimenting with cool new things that didn't matter but were fun. *00:01* Like my perfect world is I would want to position Alt Store as whatever Apple like makes like the process for siloing to be. *00:01* It is kind of weird. *00:01* This is amazing. *00:01* So thank you for for taking the time to sit down and talk with me today. *00:01* So I'm really glad that you approve that, especially with your background because yeah, a lot of work went into it. *00:01* The app store has just become so overpopulated with apps and like stuff. *00:01* That's great to hear. *00:01* Like there's gonna be some more barriers with org just things gotta jump through on that. *00:01* That was one of the first things we had to get to work on. *00:01* The website FAQ was really like a basic question and answers, but like I was relying really on like organic like tutorials being made by other people. *00:01* I loved his dolphin video. *00:01* Another huge thing that's like not a priority when you launch, but it's like one of those things you need to build out as you're evolving the platform. *00:01* Interesting. *00:01* And also, then I as the reason I want to do it, I could put it in Swift playgrounds. *00:01* Yep, I suspected that this is where things were going, but I guess it's finally here now. *00:01* I miss the interactive widget. *00:01* I could see it. *00:01* Like I'm like, oh, it'll be so cool. *00:01* And that was really fun to be like doing some like low-level stuff on it. *00:01* The only non-Swift code is when I have to wrap like the emulator cores themselves. *00:01* I think it's just like in generally, in general, banking on using all Apple first party technologies is a good bet if you're an Apple developer. *00:01* I know. *00:01* Exactly. *00:01* So really just go to maxfrequency. *00:01* That sent me down the rabbit hole of the new PC port of Ocarina of Time because they've reverse engineered it. *00:01* Like that they just put Resident Evil Village on the Mac App Store. *00:01* But who knows? *00:01* I think it would be a great fit. *00:01* I was like, w so our problem with it is that we don't want to allow any game. *00:01* And I was like, okay, fine, whatever. *00:01* And that that was because back in the day for GBA for iOS, my friend my friend, who's still my friend, but we were working together on GBA for iOS at the time. *00:01* I have it and I need to get back to it. *00:01* I've well when I was reading his blog post about it because again, when Gruber writes, especially when he writes original pieces, you're in there, you're reading it. *00:01* And the sometimes you see these companies advocating for their alternative app stores or just different means, I suppose. *00:01* Really, I think the first app I installed was Dolphin in an even, I think, an older method. *00:01* And that's not allowed on the platform because Apple can't personally review every single game. *00:01* I can see them doing it for sure. *00:01* Yeah. *00:01* And that was like really just it. *00:01* There's playfulness to it and usefulness, but playfulness and uh it pairs well with games, but you know, your Delta feels like *00:01* I did fudge. *00:01* The adoption was not as high on those. *00:01* Like I'll just load a DS ROM on my computer for something quick, but the full experience, like sitting down and playing something, *00:01* The biggest immediate advantage to Apple Silicon Delta would be like, oh, now I can put Delta on like the Mac. *00:01* I think it almost says it should. *00:01* As weird as that would be, but why isn't it on there? *00:01* I there's potential here to tap in and to use Apple's own tools more effectively on the platform instead of waiting for *00:01* Like it just has to. *00:01* Like so perfect. *00:01* Because I think it'd be a cool thing to do. *00:01* It doesn't feel the same. *00:01* There's so much to do. *00:01* It does work. *00:01* I I can't see a world where they don't do at least some level of automation automated check-in like that. *00:01* That is how I view it, yeah. *00:01* And I'm like, it's because you just have to wait three days. *00:01* We need to put a lot more information out there. *00:01* You guys were just using emulators. *00:01* Without that feedback, when like before and earlier GBA Fryer stuff, I'm like, oh. *00:01* Microsoft is making these deals, offering a streaming subscription service just like Netflix or any other video service. *00:01* And we're so I fe I I feel like the energy around Apple and the community this year is we're on the precipice of them. *00:01* Oh well I'm glad. *00:01* Like the app storeway will never allow the iPad to reach its full potential. *00:01* But I mean you've got a section with error codes and nice little icons. *00:01* The Mac Pro should theoretically finally make the jump to Apple Silicon. *00:01* It depends on us how how you view the other platforms. *00:01* And so then I worked on that for the next year. *00:01* But I I also just say all of the credit for this game is goes to my friend, best friend Caroline, who's helped *00:01* I'll send you a screenshot. *00:01* Because yeah, I've been following the Apple community, the Apple sphere since like I got my first iPhone back in like 2008. *00:01* Also, right now you're only limited to three apps installed at a time if you're just if you're not a developer, and that's ridiculous. *00:01* So yeah, Productivity Apps I think will be huge. *00:01* Yeah. *00:01* Yes. *00:01* So I tried it out. *00:01* I still trust Apple that they're only gonna enter the space if it makes sense. *00:01* So I was like, oh, I need to learn Swift somehow. *00:01* It's just a y I mean you're nearly it. *00:01* It'll happen, whether it's an official app or like you gotta compile it from GitHub, I'll make it happen somehow because it's too cool. *00:01* I I agree with that first of all. *00:02* So Spotify I think is probably the number one. *00:02* Just now how do we extend so simple, yeah. *00:02* I could see them making that segmentation. *00:02* It's that's the reason. *00:02* Exactly. *00:02* Adobe. *00:02* I see both sides to the battery thing. *00:02* But I trust Apple. *00:02* It has that Apple kind of flair to it. *00:02* You should let people like make this like make their experience exactly how they want instead of just like this whatever like *00:02* Like, why would anyone not want to be able to customize it? *00:02* For me to be like, oh now if you have a Joy-Con you can play Delta, or if you just have you have two Joy-Cons you can do two player like Delta stuff and so that's true. *00:02* They're too tight with Nintendo to ever like really want to have an official Nintendo emulator on the store. *00:02* They would I bet meta wants to do that. *00:02* The feel, another part of the feel. *00:02* Uh just the fact that it was even possible. *00:02* I don't know. *00:02* But yeah, but the I love using it. *00:02* And then or just the normal website, altstore. *00:02* Not to hate you, like I'm not hating. *00:02* I'm excited to talk about all this. *00:02* And then he basically said, so yeah, I talked to the higher-ups. *00:02* But so oh I take it back. *00:02* I'm looking forward to this year not only for Apple, but for you as well, you and uh Shane over there at Alt Store and Delta. *00:02* I had thought about it. *00:02* It's gonna be on everyone's everyone's mind. *00:02* But it's just so disconnected from what I think are the real problems with the app store, which is app review just like *00:02* Because it's like anything's so ingrained. *00:02* I'm using I'm still using OpenGL for a lot of stuff because like a lot of old emulators just expect you to be using OpenGL. *00:02* It does make the marketing for Delt a little harder now. *00:02* But the DS is great. *00:02* It's like it works. *00:02* But it has to be cumbersome to some degree, right? *00:02* And then if you get rejected, whatever. *00:02* Being able to use official Nintendo controllers to play Nintendo games on your iPad. *00:02* I was downloading another app from the Play Store. *00:02* Yeah. *00:02* Or just an easy way for like indie devs to put out their apps. *00:02* It sound it's like a curated just space for new cool apps that people should check out. *00:02* Because before people like some people had it, but after that almost everyone had controllers. *00:02* It's definitely the system I've played the most personally for me in Delta. *00:02* Um it's a shame we were talking about that before. *00:02* Apple TV, Mac, iPad, Headset. *00:02* Well, great job. *00:02* Or if you're on the iPad like if you have a stylus. *00:02* Like I I started learning programming with Apple, uh with the iPhone stuff, and so that's all I've known. *00:02* Like I do like App Review. *00:02* But yes, I was seventeen in theory will be the one that uh uh it enables this in some way, some form. *00:02* Okay. *00:02* That was great. *00:02* Who knows we'll see. *00:02* You just always want to be using what they're recommending. *00:02* She's an incredible designer, and I am not. *00:02* We're going to see a lot more emulators support all these platforms now because it's unified. *00:02* I'm your host, Max Roberts, and joining me this time is app developer, side loader, Riley Testutt. *00:02* Uh so you know, you go through this thread and I think you correct me if I'm wrong, but the gist *00:02* Exactly. *00:02* Mm-hmm. *00:02* Put logic on here. *00:02* And there's just no world the iPad can compete in this as like a laptop if it's still limited by Apple View. *00:02* I've just been a huge fan of VR since. *00:02* And I I don't care how cumbersome it is and eventually I just try to come up with like the least cumbersome way that could exist. *00:02* I'm curious. *00:02* It shows up in the iOS settings as a Bluetooth controller. *00:02* It never it never ends. *00:02* It's something I would definitely consider now, especially if I was playing the game for my own enjoyment instead of *00:02* Well it's so crazy because our computers I have on my computer right now. *00:02* It made kids like Fantastical and calculators ten times better. *00:02* And basically I think it comes down to two ways. *00:02* I think it really depends on the exact way Apple's gonna go about this. *00:02* Just I want I think it should be actually scary or intimidating to make people like think it's a process to do it. *00:02* But I I think maybe just saying yes to alerts is a little too easy, but who knows? *00:02* Oh yeah, I read your review on that. *00:02* I have no idea where anything came from. *00:02* Basically splitting the cable at the end a little further and like dock, because the PlayStation has the power of the processor thing, but it's just an HDMI *00:02* Oh that's really cool that that worked out. *00:02* Maybe it's an optional thing. *00:02* The Quest II software, as nice as it is, honestly, it's genuinely nice. *00:02* If you have an iPhone, it'll show you, but like the rumors are it has like an M2 chip or whatever. *00:02* And I was like, oh wow. *00:02* Yeah. *00:02* There's peak and pop rip, I guess. *00:02* Like this is the joy. *00:02* Would you mind like helping us design a new skin? *00:02* It seems like changes could be coming your way this year. *00:02* We've got other seasons you can check out as well. *00:02* Like they've gotten away with it, but now we're seeing new stuff come up, new technologies, and we're seeing that it's hard to actually do innovation. *00:02* I still had it installed on my Mac and the plug-in in mail, but everything needed to be updated. *00:02* And so I did it for me. *00:02* But here I have this. *00:02* It was f<unk>ing wild having like Mario Sunshine or Double Dash on the Apple TV. *00:02* Apple does have the ability to just one button stop that from working on people's phones if it's notarized. *00:02* The customers don't care about that. *00:02* I guess I'm just assuming Yes, because the iPhone has to allow it. *00:02* But I don't think they'd allow that. *00:02* And so yeah, that I learned really quickly that there's a big demand for playing like Game Boy games and the classic *00:02* And it's like, well, I know what game that is. *00:02* I didn't like how hacky jailbreaking was. *00:02* So for Mac. *00:02* It it tr it really was. *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* I don't have the link open now at this moment, but it was uh in 21 in August of 2021. *00:03* Like if an app has like an app and then three app extensions, you have to register four app IDs with Apple. *00:03* Yeah, this year will be a lot. *00:03* But the idea of the Apple, an Apple OS in a virtual space is appealing to me. *00:03* I'll jump however high you tell me. *00:03* Sounds sounds like it would be. *00:03* So that even is like if I wanted to just put Delta immediately on the on a Mac, I could do that. *00:03* I did yesterday in my testing of Delta, you know, just to reinstall it and stuff, loaded up Code Veronica X. *00:03* I was like, that's awesome. *00:03* They're just again like yeah. *00:03* But that I think that's good. *00:03* Because I could get the arguments to be like, you know what the iPhone like still not like it's still quote unquote a phone. *00:03* You've got videos embedded where it makes sense. *00:03* I've been a proponent of VR ever since I tried. *00:03* You know what? *00:03* net. *00:03* I'm gonna put it away. *00:03* And so yeah, when I was just reading the article he wrote about altered out stories, then he like references me on my Twitter that it was truly just like a *00:03* And it can run full speed. *00:03* We need to make it easy for people to answer their own questions so that we don't have to be answering all the questions and just let them like solve *00:03* Because it's hands-free, wireless, totally get put it on to go. *00:03* I I'm with you. *00:03* Yes, I used like a daisy chain of adapters. *00:03* Yeah, so it's hello. *00:03* Yeah, it's I thought that would would feel pretty awesome for you. *00:03* Because I see them just being like, you know what, it's or they'd they'd warn it. *00:03* Just the process without the long-term restrictions. *00:03* It's you know, uh Dolphin also when the M1s came out, they ported Dolphin over to Apple Silicon. *00:03* The real question is, is Apple gonna allow sign loading onto the headset? *00:03* I'm using scores that like have open source made by other people because *00:03* I guess that kind of touches on one of my questions about your design philosophy. *00:03* Well, I guess it was around the Delta review, so about a year and a half ago. *00:03* People were not buying those like dedicated controllers. *00:03* I saw this Twitter thread. *00:03* They could. *00:03* So it's like, yeah, that'll go away. *00:03* And so no one's gonna take like the dedicated time to port it to the iPhone. *00:03* io and just, you know, seeing how you do things. *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* And so if the battery pack made it light enough that like I guess that would be some trade-off. *00:03* And so I played while working on Delta, I've played so much Mario Kart DS or new Super Mario Bros. *00:03* That's all you really need to do. *00:03* But like yeah, the F one if I'm it's like oh it's like sure. *00:03* Apple TV. *00:03* It's an awful it was an awful experience. *00:03* We need to really revamp a lot of our error handling because there is a lot of *00:03* And so the past six months we've literally been like revamping error handling to make it easier for people to like to look up error codes they're seeing and all this stuff. *00:03* I'm excited for it. *00:03* And so I was like, you know what? *00:03* Who knows when I'll time to do that. *00:03* And that that's why Delta, the app itself is all Swift. *00:03* And I I love it. *00:03* Sometimes it was, but as we got to like the more complex systems like GameCube *00:03* That's just where I'm like, okay, well, maybe we could loosen up a bit. *00:03* And even outside of emulators, let's look at uh Game Pass. *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* Just easy one. *00:03* It'd be it'd be easy to do that, yes. *00:03* I don't use the word ROM anywhere in Delta. *00:03* But like I definitely think they want it and I do think Instagram has enough pull where if the barrier is low enough *00:03* But also I would think give Apple a little bit of competition. *00:03* And you'd say, I don't. *00:03* And so I, as soon as Apple announces it, I'm going to be trying to see like, yeah, what can I do with it? *00:03* Like they're really cool technologically, but man, they like *00:03* This is fun. *00:03* But yeah, the 3DS1 would be great for me to add whenever I have time. *00:03* Again, they're doing way more impressive things than I. *00:03* Because yeah, it's like it that'd be a real hard sell to I'm losing my entire like library, my playlist, and or I could keep them as go to the Epic Game Store. *00:03* It's a lot to be constantly doing a process. *00:03* Where's Final Cut? *00:03* I think it's fun. *00:03* And so I also think it's really a fun challenge to try to bridge this gap. *00:03* The black backbone. *00:03* That just emerge it kicks you out of it. *00:03* Anyway, around that time. *00:03* And I'm like, that's exactly what I'm like I wanted to happen with all this. *00:03* And so we just need to remove that like human curation element. *00:03* I've I remember putting paper mark the Thousand Your Door on my uh iPhone and feeling like I was uh committing witchcraft to some degree. *00:03* Like the game looks great, but it never feels like *00:03* It's like it's cool to try off, but if I want long-term thing, I have to not have those tiny little hiccups all the time. *00:03* Like it's what keeps Alt Store actually really safe right now. *00:03* And then another thing is you can only register ten app IDs per week. *00:03* So good question, because one is we have to wait and see exactly, but what I would love *00:03* Similar in a way to like Mastodon compared to Twitter now. *00:03* And then I also like installed at some of my friends devices. *00:03* And so I'm just curious about your design philosophy as you're sitting down, you've got NES, Super Nintendo, Game Boy, DS. *00:03* Exactly. *00:03* It's wild. *00:03* It's it's it like for pat my passion project for me. *00:03* They absolutely could. *00:03* They're all working on the map together. *00:03* Like there's no way they're gonna play nice with each other on stage. *00:03* Compile like any programming language that's not Swift can now exist on the iPad. *00:03* Because I it's I don't think everyone's really realized how boring apps have become *00:03* I was like, there's honestly a lack of just like core information for new people on like how to get set up without store and how to use all this stuff. *00:03* Love the documentation. *00:03* I feel like they're like, you know what? *00:03* Like we can't review all the games and make sure they're safe. *00:03* I'll I'll send you a list of Pokemon and Mario games at first. *00:03* Yeah, you can find, well, right now we have a Twitter. *00:03* Because the problem is it was still really hacky to even get working, but Oh I'm sure. *00:03* Uh thank you for uh agreeing to come talk to me. *00:04* Like they don't. *00:04* I think what you need is something that's just scary on the surface that just deters people from doing it. *00:04* A way to distribute apps outside the app store? *00:04* And so I was like, I'm not gonna throw away all this work. *00:04* The DS just feel it's so right. *00:04* I like that Apple curates the App Store. *00:04* So I think they would do it unless it's just truly so impactful to their business. *00:04* I guess it's easy to picture. *00:04* Yes. *00:04* I r on the similar to the tangent of if you're into it something, you'll go through whatever steps it takes to make it happen. *00:04* I think if we have the headset, I think that'd be a great system to add. *00:04* Displaying your old games. *00:04* I've tried out like the NES ones. *00:04* And I mean I'm also incredibly excited for Yes, I'm a bit I've been excited for it for years, even though I was originally definitely on board for the apple glasses and a little more skeptical on the headset. *00:04* I think it'd be really cool to write like a yeah, cutting edge *00:04* Rest in peace, Twitter. *00:04* You could buy multiple batteries, which I'm sure Apple would love if this was the case, and you could just hot swap. *00:04* Because yes, it's a whole new paradigm that we haven't really seen like come up with a good way of doing it. *00:04* But I think that segmentation is anti-Apples to a certain degree these days because their platforms are so woven together. *00:04* Where I'm like, the Nintendo emulator. *00:04* Like it will be it'll feel like a second-class citizen to the app store. *00:04* I think your documentation is beautiful, it's clear, um, it's super helpful. *00:04* Well, I so f I should start off by saying that uh I've I haven't written any like the true emulator *00:04* And so from that point on I've been like, oh, focusing really hard on that aspect of just yeah, customizing delta. *00:04* You're like, if anyone wants to talk, shoot me an email, and then after the holidays, you've caught up with your email and *00:04* Like they're like it's like the disconnect's there. *00:04* I don't think people's grandparents should be installing Alt Store *00:04* But that being said, I do see I think they'll be somewhat similar in a way. *00:04* And I want that. *00:04* It's so cool to see it. *00:04* And it's like those that just should stop happening by now. *00:04* And be like, hey, it's no hacks. *00:04* Like I I was just so happy with exactly what I wanted, like in yeah, his piece about all this stuff to then just throw in the fact that *00:04* I think the idea of stores segmenting the platform so *00:04* You could I can see the commercial now in my mind. *00:04* Well well, that uses the same chip. *00:04* And imagine I know there's a *00:04* And so it started with like, hey, I just wanted to learn Swift and do this for fun. *00:04* I'm like, yep. *00:04* Like one was made of wood wood, one was like a squirtly like Pokemon one. *00:04* And so, you know, I'm just gonna be prepared for anything, but definitely gonna be an exciting year, I'm pretty sure. *00:04* You have to hit like F1, which I remember last time I had to hit F1 to get it. *00:04* Does this tell you if you want to see the screen? *00:04* They just want to make more money and they're big companies and so big companies *00:04* So sh stuff like that is just ridiculously overcomplicated, we'll just go away. *00:04* You could see all your games on like a hundred and twenty inch virtual screen. *00:04* I wanted instead to play games like with a an experience. *00:04* But most people aren't gonna go through a daisy chain. *00:04* Exactly. *00:04* It's like that's Apple. *00:04* Like literally, they will not read anything you throw at them, no matter how scary it looks. *00:04* It just now exists on my computer. *00:04* And it's using like metal and everything natively. *00:04* Or maybe it's like it just truly the experience makes up for it, but *00:04* Obviously it's just visually not as appealing because there's a cord dangling and there's some there's a hot battery in your pocket or on your hip. *00:04* Full charge. *00:04* I'll do whatever you say. *00:04* And so to me, I learned for me that was overwhelming. *00:04* I was like, oh it feels so weird. *00:04* Of course you got you know a good way to start the year. *00:04* Yeah. *00:04* Not in the Zuckerberg metaverse sense of spend all day. *00:04* The natural way into the virtual world. *00:04* And it I loved it. *00:04* No. *00:04* I'm so glad that it's a system in within Delta. *00:04* So I can put GameCube games on the TV. *00:04* Like if something goes wrong, it's a tiny little alert. *00:04* I think what I want to do is now like make this like actually my priority. *00:04* I love playing Nintendo games on my phone. *00:04* You have haptics. *00:04* That was that's great. *00:04* The phone's been a while, but the computer and the iPad and the the Apple TV, what what have you noticed in Delta? *00:04* io, is where you can get all the alt store information. *00:04* It works. *00:04* But if it's third party app stores, who are you telling that to? *00:04* Like Spotify as well. *00:04* Yeah. *00:04* This year's gonna be a ton, actually. *00:04* And I do think that will matter a lot for because like again I *00:04* That's Pokemon Emerald or Super Metroid. *00:04* And then she'd be like, yeah, sounds great. *00:04* And honestly, the way I wanted to kick off here, I think diving into sideloading, was I wanted to ask you, what did it feel like *00:05* Is that it will truly do. *00:05* Do you think they would use the system like they do on the mat with notarization or anything like that? *00:05* If there's a store opportunity for them, they would make it. *00:05* So what do you you kind of I think you detail it in the thread a little bit or may have been in your blog post. *00:05* Exactly. *00:05* You can use controllers now. *00:05* It's fun. *00:05* Like I just I don't trust Apple to be like benevolent about this kind of thing at all. *00:05* I need a new project to work on to learn Swift. *00:05* It's functionally the same, but you're presenting it in this beautiful *00:05* So it's well huge props to her. *00:05* The iPads now have the same chips as Max. *00:05* I love Delta, alt store takes a lot of my time because I'm *00:05* So once you get an app installed, it'll at least stay installed and work. *00:05* Big fan. *00:05* Or just and I'm also imagining with the glasses, how great that future would be like when you just have glasses in the real world and just like have a Pokemon game going like your top right corner you can just play. *00:05* And then that that the next dub dub, I met with the app review team. *00:05* But thank you all so much for listening and until next time. *00:05* So the EU law, I forget the exact name of it or whatever, but *00:05* But I also see if they didn't do that route *00:05* It kills me, yeah. *00:05* Uh my day job is a technical writer. *00:05* But still, I just have to the people who are building these code bases are way smarter than I am. *00:05* So uh hats off to you, sir. *00:05* It and either Apple goes the side loading route where they say, hey, you can sideload, but we're not going to do the whole third-party app store stuff. *00:05* And and so I think it's I think they just want to control the narrative as much. *00:05* Like they'd have to say something and it'd be like now you can install Fortnite again? *00:05* But I was at least tech savvy enough to do the initial setup back then and and go through with it. *00:05* I'm convinced of that. *00:05* It's definitely not a priority, but I'd I it would be fun. *00:05* Gotcha. *00:05* They have polish to them that *00:05* So yeah, I love that feature too. *00:05* Yeah. *00:05* I mean it's awesome, like they have all the stuff you want, but *00:05* Like I'm not trying to break their stuff. *00:05* That's not what the experience we want. *00:05* Thank you. *00:05* Like please please it's like it's so ridiculous that your app will just expire after a week if you don't like do anything about it. *00:05* Instead of just like feeling out maybe ahead of time, oh, there actually is a market for this app. *00:05* And I think that's a huge like reason Mastodon could be a success is because it can be smaller, but *00:05* I like it. *00:05* That's and I think that's true because I do think VR has potential for sure. *00:05* Delta, Nintendo emulator. *00:05* So I was like, how can I make it feel like you're playing NES? *00:05* It's like it's just not a fun playground for new ideas anymore. *00:05* So you could we will allow Delta if you like send us a list of ROMs to review with like every update. *00:05* What a great experience this is *00:05* And so using Swift from the beginning, I want to start doing more and more Swift UI. *00:05* And so much of that, like there's a lot of those things. *00:05* If they're like reading the law, we actually do need to allow like full competitive app stores. *00:05* That's it has to I just I don't see a world really where you just go to Safari, download an app, and it's installed. *00:05* And honestly, I used it to refresh myself to make sure I was installing Delta correctly on my phone. *00:05* I can already do that in theory, if I wanted to, with some of it *00:05* Yeah, yeah, yeah. *00:05* You're no you're not use you're not playing Nintendo DS game if you're using a mouse. *00:05* And I really just think it's the *00:05* Like Epic's not really out here going to bat for the Fortnite community. *00:05* I definitely don't think it should be more difficult. *00:05* I think yeah, I'm not trying to compete with the app store. *00:05* It's I like it a lot. *00:05* I love my backphone when that came out eventually. *00:05* And they've done some things. *00:05* I'm trying to build them all and also build alt stores. *00:05* I mean, he says Testet wrote a concise Twitter thread. *00:05* I think it's one of the best things about it. *00:05* I think that depends on how Apple has decided to comply with the law. *00:05* I mean I would love for her too, but y there's a lot of stuff you do gotta be aware of when you're side loading. *00:05* Like I think it'd be just a cumbersome thing to install, like Alt Store, may require a computer or something weird like that. *00:05* And so that's why I'm like, it depends how this headset's positioned to them. *00:05* And if you wrote something in Swift like that, you would be able to tap into *00:05* And then uh I'm on Twitter at Max Roberts143. *00:05* It's harder to make the emulator than to make the wrapper around it, so I can't fault them. *00:05* And that's also where Apple needs to like cut this out. *00:05* Yeah. *00:05* And I chalk that up to Android mostly. *00:05* You're working within current constraints, but they could evolve that or change. *00:05* And I feel like sideloading apps that take advantage of this power would not only *00:05* But uh if it is though, or if I'm supposed to be wearing it for like still hours at a time, it has to be *00:05* Like if we could have waited a year without the battery pack, that's my I guess my biggest thing is like *00:05* These work fine. *00:05* It's really amazing that I'm like the n the iPad basically just is a switch now with the support. *00:05* I do also have keyboard support, and so on my iPad with like the magic keyboard, it will work like a computer, but *00:05* Rest in peace, third-party clients. *00:05* Very sad. *00:05* I'm glad you like it. *00:05* Really appreciate that. *00:05* It's not gonna be just my personal project for Swift. *00:05* I mean it pissed me off. *00:05* Also Genesis. *00:05* But they were still at the time. *00:05* So the other the other element of feel here is that DS emulation. *00:05* Season five's going on right now. *00:05* Yep, for sure. *00:05* And that's again, like those are the kind of things that annoy me the most. *00:05* And so I think whether they announce a WWC depends on which path they choose. *00:05* I feel like Apple's forgotten that. *00:05* But if they were like trying to replace like if this was like the eventual like replacement for the iPhone, then *00:05* Sounds great. *00:05* It's why I specifically put it into Delta. *00:05* So I can recognize that these look good, but *00:05* I well what we need to see next is *00:05* But yeah. *00:05* I think Spotify also has *00:06* So I see that side of it and the comfort *00:06* This is now the time to release this headset with everything. *00:06* Like it feels like unpaunished. *00:06* Which I think is what Apple does care about a lot. *00:06* Then that would be uh music, I think, definitely has a stronger pull than *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* There's USB-C on the iPhone possibly, all the side loading. *00:06* And so that's I wouldn't be surprised. *00:06* You're using the Taptic engine. *00:06* Yes, I yeah, I do remember. *00:06* Then downloading this app uh program file. *00:06* Yeah, this the however you're gonna be interacting with stuff I think is gonna be that yeah, that's what I want to see the most. *00:06* And I did that because I I think *00:06* Because it's like I mean I also s love the DS as a kid. *00:06* It's just right. *00:06* And then for Windows users, we've also allowed it through this way. *00:06* I get I can see them doing that because yeah, they can focus on like these one-off experiences. *00:06* And versus like no one's grandma's installing alt store because it's just *00:06* It sounds it sounds good over there. *00:06* 'Cause I I feel the same way. *00:06* And then I talked to people and they were saying, yes, you know what? *00:06* We can't allow emulators in any way whatsoever. *00:06* It really does. *00:06* So I just hooked up GBA for iOS to this service and then *00:06* It's not even the functionality of the *00:06* It has like all these things like oh man *00:06* It's time to actually see what happens. *00:06* But before before we jump to Delta, I have to *00:06* It's just literally a Swift playground. *00:06* And at the time I had the 10 S Max and just *00:06* I mean we've seen them do it before. *00:06* Is that what we're on? *00:06* They don't realize what that good. *00:06* That's another benefit of of PSVR compared to something like *00:06* Like these do work. *00:06* Uh f directly from Apple. *00:06* Like I really want that. *00:06* Like I'm expecting some level of that here. *00:06* Do you want to just have it? *00:06* Exactly. *00:06* It's *00:06* I love oh the error code like that's been *00:06* But I was able to hook up a real N64 controller to Delta. *00:06* I can connect to it, but I cannot get any games to recognize it yet. *00:06* But Snazzy Labs, Quinn Nelson, he's made a few videos. *00:06* Very similar to the Game Pass argument. *00:06* I love peak and pop. *00:06* I love that's one of my personal favorite features. *00:06* I don't know if you've seen his Good Blood videos or the Hyrule Journal stuff. *00:06* I still had to go into preference. *00:06* Like I really just want to establish Alt Store as the niche for apps that aren't either ready for the App Store or aren't allowed in the App Store. *00:06* I was like walking between classes one day at UCF and they have like a vibe set up in the *00:06* And then people can play p and then I'll like update lists. *00:06* And then so yeah, when Apple then finally added support for switch controllers in iOS 16. *00:06* If I just want to be able to work on Delta and make these cool like little features. *00:06* Just like get back in the swing of things, just start talking about side loading everything. *00:06* Like or like a a recent example. *00:06* And then it was *00:06* You know, or I bought a Pixel Seven *00:06* And *00:06* Yes. *00:06* But *00:06* It just exactly. *00:06* So that's just in general my philosophy. *00:06* And then she'll blow us away with like *00:06* It's the way it's supposed to be. *00:06* You can follow us on Twitter at altstore. *00:06* What do they review every show on Netflix? *00:06* It's like *00:06* But my phone *00:06* It was a school project, right? *00:06* It yeah, it just felt wrong. *00:06* Stark times. *00:06* It doesn't even use the menu bar, so like to get into the settings of the game *00:06* I'll give them credit. *00:06* They'd say, hey, this is coming, but here are the warnings you need to know. *00:07* And then I'm just sitting here like the iPad also has an M1 chip. *00:07* It it feels like we're on the precipice of almost a *00:07* But that's not enough information. *00:07* I get one more thing, I guess, before we go to Delta. *00:07* And so that's really what I want. *00:07* So if they go I know like crazy. *00:07* None that are like none that are I wouldn't surprise if someone's made a proof of concept one. *00:07* Oh yeah. *00:07* Cause yeah, you just op go to the game and you just p and again, you use like a pro controller and you're like, okay, well, this is perfect *00:07* But I just don't like that then if they make a dumb mistake, like they reject an app that shouldn't be rejected *00:07* I do a lot. *00:07* Like it really just should not be a thing that *00:07* Like to me it was just I had j like I'd been developing apps like a couple of years by then. *00:07* And so I thought that'd be fun. *00:07* Like everything I'm writing *00:07* That was sick. *00:07* But I was able to like say something worthwhile. *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* You've you've mentioned them in the past and some stuff you've wrote. *00:07* So that's that's a game where I'm like *00:07* I'm like like the external battery pack. *00:07* That was really cool to learn that there actually is like this market for people that want to play these old games. *00:07* Like *00:07* Plus Genesis. *00:07* Like because now, like because Mel and like the DSM that I'm using. *00:07* And that's when he kind of took off. *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* They'd be like, well, whatever. *00:07* Because it just means, yeah, you can catch anything that made it through. *00:07* Because it's like the only people willing to jump through all these hoops to install Alt Store *00:07* They're like *00:07* I remember the first time I installed *00:07* Even if they're like, hey, we don't allow C<unk>. *00:07* And I'm so thankful that she's willing to help out, like help us out. *00:07* Oh yeah. *00:07* Someday. *00:07* The number's getting so big now. *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* Why is Matt why is Resident Evil Village not on *00:07* So I write manuals and this type of stuff. *00:07* I do. *00:07* Like *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* It's really impressive. *00:07* Like take the time like to write the NES core in Swift and be like, hey, this is actually my *00:07* Now there's an official N64 switch controller, which I'm sure I could just hook up via Bluetooth and that would work right away. *00:07* Thank you for your service. *00:07* Resident Evil. *00:07* Yep. *00:07* And I tried sideloading an app because I wanted like the new recorder app update or something before it was out. *00:07* Like obviously Twitter's way bigger, but Mastodon, all these developers like *00:07* But there is a world where if they are trying to make this actually a standalone device. *00:07* RIP. *00:07* Or for apps that actually couldn't be allowed, like Delta, my emulator, like *00:07* They've been petty with like the Netherlands dating app stuff. *00:07* They just email it to you. *00:07* Because I do think there are certain restrictions that are just *00:07* That's *00:07* And I was like *00:07* And so when I started working on GBA for iOS *00:07* Because like just as an indie developer *00:07* I love it. *00:07* The the Twitter thread in question, it came uh it came up afterward. *00:07* Uh well I I don't even know what chip number we're on in the iPhones, A1516, whatever it is. *00:07* And I went through those steps, which is awesome. *00:07* And so I could use this in Delta and I'm like, oh *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* That would be super sweet. *00:07* Right. *00:07* It's just how I view it. *00:07* Holy smokes. *00:07* And so I think I have a similar like a feeling like Gruber wrote his article about like the heads or he's written some piece about the headset. *00:07* I'm curious *00:07* So whatever. *00:07* I think yeah, the DS especially is awesome. *00:07* That was amazing. *00:07* I hands down. *00:07* I can't I don't even know how to get apps onto the TV. *00:07* These are just full personal computers that like our entire lives are now revolved around. *00:07* It's what's a computer and someone's on an iPad making the app, like you said, and then they send it *00:07* But oh yes, it's very frustrating to me to see the power of the Mac and now that the iPad has the exact same chip in it. *00:07* I miss it's the thing I miss the most. *00:07* It's *00:07* And so I already had basic controller support. *00:07* But *00:07* Okay, I can see. *00:07* And so I'll build it because I want my Apple TV to be able to do all this. *00:07* And so *00:07* We *00:07* They're like, okay, so there's another store. *00:07* And I'm like, Apple, you could have literally *00:07* And I'm like *00:07* I think they look great. *00:07* I'm gonna like *00:07* Just running a full emul like NES emulator. *00:07* 'Cause I was like, oh, it's just so nice to like just peek into like a game or something and like just see what's happening. *00:07* And like that recreate that feeling. *00:07* And I that's why also for a while before like the EU law was passed. *00:07* You're using the Apple tools. *00:07* Like *00:07* Yes. *00:07* And so I I'm just a snob for like app design. *00:07* Yes, someday soon. *00:07* Yeah. *00:08* Like I really have no interest in that whatsoever. *00:08* But do they just leave *00:08* I, you know, it's so *00:08* It's too good. *00:08* Oh, I know. *00:08* Anyway, uh you can find my writing over at maxfrequency. *00:08* Adios *00:08* So like there's presets. *00:08* I'm just using their stuff in a way they probably didn't foresee happening, but *00:08* But I mean whatever. *00:08* I it's exciting. *00:08* Like *00:08* Try out Virtual Boy in the headset. *00:08* And so I was like, you know what? *00:08* Wrapping an iOS app. *00:08* Because then they can just shut down whatever that approval. *00:08* And that to me, I think, will be a huge thing. *00:08* Like I *00:08* And you're pulling in art from different databases and give options to change. *00:08* So thank you so much, Riley, for joining me on the show. *00:08* I still remember that tweet you had. *00:08* Like back in the days when they would reject like *00:08* I'd be disappointed, but I'd be very sad. *00:08* And so I was like, oh, whoa. *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* And so I really was like if I'm building this emulator and people are already jumping through all these hoops *00:08* I want to feel like *00:08* And that yes, exactly. *00:08* But what does I think help Delta the most with this transition is that *00:08* And by adding support for that, it makes it much easier to then port to Delta or to iPhone. *00:08* That's pretty much it, which is hard to express the nuanced terms on Twitter, but yeah, yeah. *00:08* Like it means that if there was a sideload app *00:08* And so I know it sounds great in theory to say, hey, we gotta do these scary alerts. *00:08* And *00:08* What like how fun stupid things can be *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* Like if they view it as like an Apple TV accessory where it's not like *00:08* She's the best. *00:08* You like didn't know if your button was pressed and that just like disoriented you *00:08* I I love it. *00:08* It's just a match made in heaven. *00:08* But also these companies want to make money. *00:08* Basically, also I want Alt Store Day without the stupid restrictions. *00:08* And uh the phone obviously has been on Apple Silicon since *00:08* Put it through Finder. *00:08* Wow. *00:08* When you when you start thinking about what's supposed to happen this year *00:08* So that's when I was like started on the whole alt store track up. *00:08* And I was like, oh. *00:08* It's like *00:08* I want Alt Store to be like maybe a convenience on top of that. *00:08* Oh my goodness gracious. *00:08* Because like yeah the iPhone has a microphone. *00:08* Actually invest the effort into *00:08* I've never ever I just use them. *00:08* Mel and DS especially, or the DS core I'm using Mellon DS. *00:08* Anyway. *00:08* You can have your other app store. *00:08* And it's only if they can't control it they try to shove it under the table. *00:08* And then the next day that after installing and it worked, I turn the phone on the next day and the app doesn't work. *00:08* Like we don't want to have to be like, oh now I'm signing up like distributing it. *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* So it was like a stupid restriction, but I was like, whatever. *00:08* I think that would be super fascinating on a technical level. *00:08* io, but *00:08* And like just *00:08* You're telling it to *00:08* The screenshots are super clean and clear. *00:08* It's really Android, just with a skin over it. *00:08* It was GPS phone. *00:08* Like not just a hack together like side app. *00:08* And so I think yeah for the iPhone specifically the DS is so great *00:08* Now I will invest time into it and making like a real App Store app. *00:08* So sad. *00:08* And when I saw him he *00:09* But *00:09* But Apple's method of sideloading, whatever that may be, it can't be like that. *00:09* But right now it's like you have to commit to building an app from the beginning *00:09* It is. *00:09* How could I put Delta on it? *00:09* Super fun. *00:09* I definitely plan to add three DS at some point. *00:09* It is way too cool. *00:09* I know. *00:09* Crazy. *00:09* Like the beer drinking app where you just hold your phone up to your like *00:09* Thank you. *00:09* And so if that's what they're going with, I bet they would not announce anything in kind of *00:09* Oh god. *00:09* I'm gonna totally butcher this. *00:09* I'm like, mm oof oof. *00:09* That's what you need for like the immersion feel. *00:09* Like I like it'd be better than a heavy headset. *00:09* And I assume it's all *00:09* Again, I met with the same person. *00:09* It's just it just breaks a barrier. *00:09* Thank you. *00:09* It seems that way. *00:09* We've just seen lots of attempts of UIs in the virtual world. *00:09* Oh, and also around this time. *00:09* You *00:09* So what you know, what is that process like for you, your philosophy there? *00:09* But like, oh if you have like that NES controller skin, that gives you that semblance of like *00:09* Pass along my thanks because it it truly is one of my favorite parts of Delta in that experience. *00:09* So you can find me at Rileytestut at Mastodon. *00:09* Uh I just tweet *00:09* Or I can see that spin. *00:09* And seeing what they can come up with is, you know, the this is the company that *00:09* But yeah, it *00:09* And so *00:09* It will happen. *00:09* And of course Daring Fireball was like always the go-to blog. *00:09* It's on your phone. *00:09* Like they would present it as a bad thing, something like the opposite. *00:09* And so I view it as like future-proofing. *00:09* I feel like *00:09* It's the I feel the same way. *00:09* And to that I think the this process would have to be so much worse than the app store. *00:09* You've designed it to work this way with Altstore. *00:09* That honestly means a lot because when I brought Shane on board like last year to help me out with like *00:09* Just in this world where Apple allows side loading. *00:09* Maybe I'll just learn Swift. *00:09* I just upgraded from a 10S Max to a 14 Pro Max *00:09* That was again a very important part. *00:09* And the thing that we don't *00:09* Because *00:09* I forget what the extension is over there, but then *00:09* And I've used him. *00:09* Like *00:09* I really appreciate all of that. *00:09* R. *00:09* And I love it. *00:09* That to me is just a fundamental fact. *00:09* So if they go that completely separate route, then it's like, you know what? *00:09* But I think *00:09* I uh *00:09* Um and it does. *00:09* Gotcha. *00:09* Like they are doing incredibly advanced things to be able to *00:09* They're like no matter what they decide to do, I'm like, if I have a Swift app, I can keep that *00:09* I didn't even think of that. *00:09* I. *00:09* Oh *00:09* And the only thing that I can just think is *00:09* I *00:09* Yeah. *00:09* Exact. *00:10* No, they are I think uh doing as *00:10* Yes. *00:10* Do you think it *00:10* So you just really recreate the exact experience you want. *00:10* P. *00:10* They're going to bat for their *00:10* But so then when Shane came on board, it was like his *00:10* Like you said, yeah, quirky, fun, like things that you haven't seen before because *00:10* You know. *00:10* Because I'm just like, eh, I don't think Apple actually gets anything for them. *00:10* Yeah. *00:10* It's like boom I *00:10* And he was the one that pitched me on, hey *00:10* It changes touch gaming on the iPhone. *00:10* But then I was like I was making sure that that was like a primary feature of Delta to be like *00:10* tweet bot on Twitter for it *00:10* So if you want certain things, so like they do a lot for you *00:10* But yes, it's *00:10* And I'm like so I think maybe it's *00:10* They just want to take *00:10* Like *00:10* And that's really hard to explain to my users because an app ID is just like *00:10* Tremendously more useful. *00:10* Yeah, just being able to play all the touchscreen games on the iPhone *00:10* And so that's my focus for Delta. *00:10* We can literally reach out to her and be like *00:10* And just think of *00:10* I well I'm I'm here for it. *00:10* And so if she's technologic savvy, go for it *00:10* More the No *00:10* It's quite a process though. *00:10* Please *00:10* It's it literally breaks down just the same as that. *00:10* Still give us 30%. *00:10* Phenomenal. *00:10* Yeah. *00:10* Hello, Riley. *00:10* So I do think I *00:10* It's the worst thing about this, yeah. *00:10* And I basically said *00:10* I think Genesis is even in there. *00:10* Like to be reading these news articles about Apple alternative App Store *00:10* It's like, ah, there it is. *00:10* I love it. *00:10* Oh yeah, it's and the Apple's done a great job with it. *00:10* And so I appreciate it. *00:10* Yeah. *00:11* Like, and so what *00:11* And you know what? *00:11* Where can the people find Alt Store Delta? *00:11* That's one of the things that *00:11* It's like I want it to feel like you're playing the system. *00:11* That was what that was the hardest thing. *00:11* I would love to see *00:11* Like it's this you know forbidden. *00:11* And that's just *00:11* An external battery pack for this thing, that seems a little *00:11* But when you're literally touching the touch screen on the iPhone *00:11* It's IOS seventeen, which I've *00:11* Because then it gets really *00:11* Yeah, a function route. *00:11* It's fun though *00:11* And they can like somewhat like get ahead of it and control that narrative. *00:11* This means that this is technically possible *00:11* I'm like *00:11* It's the best. *00:11* Just like *00:11* And then this headset, whatever the headset will be. *00:11* Because I also like *00:11* Gatekeeper. *00:11* I'm so fascinated by what they settle on *00:11* I do *00:11* Or they can then *00:11* And when you poke, you can see that. *00:11* I need to find some way to distribute this *00:11* So my brain, it's *00:11* net. *00:11* I thought if Apple was ever gonna allow siloading *00:11* I *00:11* And then I would be very happy *00:11* That is that's a very fair point. *00:11* Sure. *00:11* There's a game rate. *00:11* That's I think the only r world I see them actually doing that. *00:11* And *00:11* So *00:11* You've got to put your headset in developer mode, blah blah blah. *00:12* It's something I've been *00:12* Is that was that easy to implement? *00:12* Yeah, yeah. *00:12* Because bef like a year ago *00:12* My other show, chapter select. *00:12* So *00:12* And then you could have a whitelist of like *00:12* But I think Swift *00:12* It's really cool, but that's why I was like for emulators, I'm like *00:12* That's just not appealing. *00:12* And *00:12* Maybe *00:12* Oh *00:12* And it I mean, it comes down to *00:12* I'm very excited. *00:12* And *00:12* So just a very different *00:12* Like absurd *00:12* But *00:12* Exactly. *00:12* social *00:12* And you would like *00:12* That was pretty much *00:12* And cause and *00:13* I remember *00:13* Like yeah. *00:13* You can like *00:13* Right. *00:13* Yeah. *00:13* It's *00:13* And it's like *00:13* I don't know. *00:13* Excellent. *00:13*