# [[MFP29 - “Sleepovers with GameCube Games” with 8-Bit Music Theory]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome to the Max Frequency Podcast. *00:00* I'm your host, Max Roberts, and I have the pleasure of this time being joined by none other than 8bit from 8bit Music Theory. *00:02* Hello, 8Bit, how are you? *00:09* Hello, I'm doing good. *00:11* Thanks for having me. *00:13* Thank you. *00:14* You you may have the record for the fastest respond. *00:15* Ever in a guest request. *00:20* I'm talking, it was like an within an hour. *00:22* I was so thrilled. *00:24* And then I was also on top of that thrilled that you said yes, because I've been watching your channel for *00:26* I went back to try and see. *00:32* I was like, what is the the earliest video I remember watching? *00:34* I think I've been watching your videos for six, five years almost. *00:36* So almost the the life of the whole channel. *00:40* So you're Oh man, I'm flattered. *00:43* Yeah, I uh I either answer emails right away or never. *00:47* Well I'm all an athlet. *00:51* I'm happy that I was on the right away column there, so that's that's great. *00:53* I *00:58* In prepping for this episode, I have been watching your videos and now YouTube's algorithm thinks I am trying to learn music. *00:59* I am getting recommendations out the wazoo of a bunch of other music stuff. *01:07* I'm like, no, I'm just. *01:12* Researching 8-bit, but I appreciate it YouTube. *01:14* I appreciate it. *01:16* It's very silly. *01:18* blah blah blah works or this is how they do this song. *01:28* I'm like maybe someday, but not right now, YouTube. *01:31* I mean I'm in a zone. *01:35* I gotta learn about all about these modes, you know, all these different modes. *01:36* So many modes. *01:42* So many. *01:43* Countless. *01:44* Well not countless. *01:45* Before I dive in kind of to where I wanted to start, I had to, on top of thanking you for being on the show. *01:47* I had to thank you for, I guess, mentioning, I believe it was in an AMA you did a couple years ago, but you recommended or talked about *01:54* a Japanese jazz band. *02:03* Um I'm I've been saying it in my head as Cassio P, but I is that how you would say it? *02:06* Oh, I I think it's Cassiopeia. *02:12* Cassiopeia. *02:14* Like the constellation. *02:15* Okay. *02:17* Cassio with, you know, spell like the keyboard Casio. *02:17* I mean I don't know. *02:22* I'm gonna go with Cassiopeia. *02:23* It sounds nicer, more in line with the music. *02:25* Because you were talking about their nineteen eighty-five live album in that AMA. *02:27* I want to get inside this guy's head. *02:33* Let's listen to it. *02:35* And between that and let's play, I've been just listening to a bunch of jazz for the past week. *02:36* Uh man. *02:41* I really, really appreciate it. *02:43* So thank you for mentioning it. *02:44* Oh, there's they're *02:48* Insanely good. *02:50* That's probably my favorite um hour or so of music in in history is that 1985 concert. *02:51* It is so many times. *02:59* Bonkers. *03:01* My wife actually asked me to turn it down. *03:02* She's like, this is intense. *03:03* We were in the car. *03:05* I was like, well, it's really good. *03:06* But I'll turn it to the free. *03:09* It's it was really fun. *03:12* So thank you for mentioning them. *03:13* And now getting me up. *03:15* Go explore. *03:18* They've got a lot of stuff to check out. *03:20* They do. *03:22* Well that's cool, man. *03:22* Thanks for checking out the album and and and reading my old uh AMAs and stuff. *03:23* You seem very well uh uh read on my old past interviews and things. *03:27* Which I find funny because I've never every time I do an interview, I immediately forget you know, everything that I said that had happened. *03:33* Well, I I try to do my my due diligence and *03:41* learn what I can beforehand. *03:45* I don't want to come in like a complete, you know, not knowing enough. *03:46* I because while you majored in jazz studies, I majored in journalism, so it's like in my educational blood background, brain, whatever. *03:51* That makes a lot of sense. *03:58* Yeah, I've this is what I love to do. *04:00* And you do, you have a a a major in jazz studies and you know, I think contrary to *04:03* I don't know if it's popular belief, but definitely based off just the intro of all of your videos, you're a drummer, not a keyboard player or a piano player, which I was surprised to learn that you are a a drummer first. *04:11* Yeah, that's probably the most flattering compliment I get is people just assuming I'm a piano player. *04:23* Like, oh, I really must be like getting to the *04:28* Theory nerd. *04:32* Like really dropping some nerdy theory stuff if people assume I'm a pianist. *04:33* Well, I think it's the I've always just assumed it cause you open with that little keyboard Diddy. *04:37* True. *04:42* True. *04:43* And so I'm like, well, this man clearly loves the piano. *04:43* But I'm I'm curious how you fell in love with the drums, which are to me a very intimidating instrument because it requires you to move. *04:47* all of your limbs, your whole body really, if you watch it in different rhythms and paces. *04:58* And my wife can't keep a beat and I barely can keep a beat, I think. *05:04* So I find the drums very intimidating. *05:08* So I'm curious how you you fell in love with the drums. *05:10* I started playing drums when I was a little kid. *05:13* Um I'm trying to remember if there was a specific reason. *05:16* I think I just really liked the uh *05:19* I don't know, very kinetic aspect of it. *05:22* I remember watching School of Rock when it came out when I was a little kid and thinking the drummer guy was the coolest and *05:25* You know, the drummers always seem like the coolest members of the band, so I was I was forced to take piano lessons for about a year as a little kid and then I *05:31* like uh negotiated with my parents. *05:39* Like if I could if I take drum lessons, will you let me stop taking piano lessons kind of thing? *05:42* And so I uh started drum lessons pretty early and just *05:47* That always was kinda just the thing that I was uh th the only thing I was uh good at. *05:50* So you know, kept up with it, played in bands, did the jazz band in high school, that whole thing. *05:56* So you did do jazz in high school? *06:02* Yeah, just you know, being a band, you have to be a percussionist if you're a a drummer. *06:05* And being a percussionist is not cool at all. *06:11* It's the opposite of cool. *06:14* So I was like, well, if I get to play the drums, th I'll do jazz band, sure, even though I didn't know anything about jazz. *06:16* I was whatever, thirteen. *06:23* Um and so you know, it wasn't really until I got to university where I I had the exact same mentality of, you know, my parents want me to get a degree in something. *06:25* What degree can I *06:34* play a drum kit and jazz studies, okay, that's what I'll do. *06:36* Um and then over the course of that degree, that totally changed my whole musical worldview. *06:39* The whole uh *06:45* Now I am a jazz nerd. *06:46* I I appreciate it a lot, but at the time going into it, I was uh lukewarm on it, I would say. *06:48* I *06:54* I'm not too dissimilar, at least in my enjoyment of jazz. *06:55* I may not be a jazz nerd, but my first few cars *06:59* were were much older models, so they didn't have the ability to, you know, play Bluetooth or even an aux chord or anything like that. *07:04* So I only had the radio. *07:10* And there's a few things I can't stand, which is is most popular just radio music in general. *07:12* I just I don't enjoy it. *07:20* But there are some that I do enjoy though, I have to you know admit like Olivia Rodrigo, I think she kills it. *07:23* But anyway, I can't stand most of that, and then the commercials I think are incessant on the radio. *07:28* So I was looking for a solution to this problem, and I went to the University of Central Florida and they have a *07:35* a radio station there in the Nicholson School of Communication, um 89. *07:44* 9 WCF 89. *07:48* 9, Jazz and more. *07:50* very few commercials 'cause it's it's public radio and it's funded through the school and donations and stuff like that. *07:52* And it's just *07:58* Jazz all day. *08:00* Nice. *08:02* And so I would listen to that all the time on the way to and from school and to work and I'd put CDs in sometimes, but uh I was listening to jazz all through college and then everyone made fun of me. *08:02* that I'm an old man on the inside. *08:14* I was like, but this is really good music. *08:17* I I even remember one night uh *08:18* Uh I had dropped uh my then girlfriend, but now wife off at home and I've got in the car and was was driving home *08:21* And I all it's on 89. *08:30* 9 and there's just this shredding guitar just I'm like, what? *08:32* What am where am I? *08:36* And I guess on Saturday nights or whatever they switch to like a a blues *08:38* kind of a really what do they call it? *08:43* Smokestack lightning, I think is what that segment in the evening is called. *08:46* And it was like this is jazz. *08:50* You open your eyes. *08:54* So I get that *08:55* the jazz station where I live has like Sunday nights is smooth jazz uh night. *08:57* And that's a bit. *09:03* You go the same thing. *09:04* You turn it on and you go, what? *09:05* This isn't what I want. *09:07* Oh okay. *09:08* Well it's the same thing with Cassiopeia's. *09:10* Like this is jazz, but it is jazz. *09:12* I think that's the yeah. *09:14* That's the cool thing. *09:16* The ja the jazz term is uh strange because it encompasses a lot of different music, whereas pretty much every other genre label has *09:18* uh very thick boundaries around maybe not very, very thick, but there's at least you know there's way less variety under what you would consider rock music than there is under what you consider jazz. *09:29* You know what I mean? *09:40* Oh yeah, for sure. *09:41* And *09:42* Not to totally sound like Damien Chazelle, but Lala Land kind of addresses this, right? *09:43* I I assume you've seen Lala Land. *09:48* And Whiplash, is Whiplash a safe bet too? *09:51* Oh yeah. *09:55* Every like jazz musician I know hated those movies, but I loved them. *09:55* I thought they were both fantastic. *09:59* Oh, okay. *10:00* That's good. *10:01* I was worried because I have a *10:01* A friend who's a drummer, he did drumline in high school and in and college and stuff, so it wasn't necessarily jazz, but he's you know, he's a very good drummer. *10:04* So I asked him about it and he was like, nah, I don't like that stuff at all. *10:12* I was like, oh man, I like it. *10:15* So I'm happy to hear you enjoy those. *10:17* But in La La Land, that is a thing, you know, is jazz is all these different things and you're such a traditionalist, blah, blah, blah. *10:19* Anyway. *10:25* For sure, for sure. *10:26* It applies to real life and Oh yeah. *10:27* I felt very uh I could relate heavily to that movie. *10:29* Like the whole *10:33* Him joining the pop band and playing his keyboard solos in a pop band and then just going like, what am I doing with my life? *10:34* You go, yeah. *10:40* I feel like every *10:41* Every working musician has been there to some degree. *10:42* So it's like just like, you know, to make money you have to do things that people want to hear. *10:45* Right. *10:50* And people don't want to hear uh *10:50* Interesting music for the most part, I think. *10:53* People are that is not to be too elitist, but No, I get it though. *10:55* My my wife is very I would say just the generic *11:00* what is on the radio. *11:05* She listens to the radio. *11:06* And right now there's a lot of Taylor Swift in my life. *11:07* Um which is, you know, fine. *11:10* I enjoy um you know it is fun. *11:14* I think it's just a different uh is the appeal is different. *11:17* It's like um like you wouldn't watch like if you're going to see a movie *11:22* and you get a musical, even if it's still a movie, that's like a different thing. *11:27* Like not everybody likes musicals, even if you're really into movies. *11:32* And not everyone likes *11:36* You know what I mean? *11:38* Yeah, yeah, yeah. *11:40* Cause not everyone not everyone who likes musicals loves *11:41* The big blockbuster movie or a horror movie or or things like that. *11:45* Or yeah, horror isn't perfect thing. *11:49* It's like a sub it is still within the realm of film. *11:51* But there's it's just like a hard either you like horror or you don't like horror. *11:54* And if you do like horror, you probably don't like other stuff nearly as much as you like horror. *11:59* You know what I mean? *12:03* Yeah. *12:04* Or that's been my experience at least. *12:04* And I think music kind of like kind of the pop music thing, the radio pop music thing, has an appeal that's outside of the actual just musical content, whether it's lyrics *12:06* Whether it's, you know, the persona, whether it's there's a whole bunch of elements to it. *12:17* But if you're into classical music or really any instrumental music, I think. *12:22* That's like you're you're looking for a completely different sort of thing. *12:27* And there's overlap, but it's uh it feels like two separate worlds to me. *12:31* Yeah, I totally I see what you're saying there. *12:35* I'm *12:38* I'm curious how so you you go to university for for jazz studies that's your major, how does that translate to music *12:40* Theory. *12:49* Like where does the music the love of music theory come in, or is that just throughout your whole musical education? *12:49* Um *12:55* It's kinda hard. *12:56* It's uh one of those things where you look back and think, Oh, I guess I was into that as a kid. *12:57* I never really thought of it as like part of my identity that I liked music theory, but I always did find that sort of thing interesting, you know. *13:02* Especially as a child. *13:16* when I was growing up at least. *13:18* So it was very like, oh yeah, scales, that's cool. *13:19* I like that. *13:22* Oh, you know, learning chords and stuff. *13:23* That's interesting. *13:25* I like that. *13:25* And you know, I try and like pick out songs by ear and stuff like that on the piano uh as a kid. *13:28* But it wasn't yeah, it wasn't really until I was in university. *13:33* where you were really, you know, studying music and this is what you're doing with your time. *13:37* And a lot of that was learning how to play drums, which is obviously because that was my major. *13:41* But you also have to do your theory classes, you have to do your composition classes and stuff like that. *13:46* And that stuff I always found very interesting and I like did really well in those kinds of classes. *13:51* And I always wanted to try and *13:57* uh apply that stuff to music that I like to listen to and play. *14:00* The kind of classical theory thing is very much like you're looking at *14:06* music from the 1700s for the first like two years of your schooling. *14:12* That's all you're doing, you know? *14:17* And so that's hard to hard for people to get into *14:18* Um and so taking principles like that and actually there was a book I read in school where uh it was it was called um Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles and it was a theory book, really. *14:22* Okay. *14:33* Um but it kind of sold itself as a Beatles. *14:34* book. *14:37* It was in this. *14:38* Go through Beatles tunes. *14:41* And it started off super duper simple, just like, what's the one chord? *14:42* You know, what's the five chord? *14:46* And went into uh not super complicated territory, but by the end you're talking about um pretty technical stuff. *14:48* And the style that that book was written in is totally that's just I stole that and that's what my channel is. *14:55* Like it was *15:00* So intrigued by this book. *15:01* I read it front to back twice. *15:02* And just this whole way of looking at music theory in a way that wasn't so academic. *15:04* that was more approachable and more practical of saying like, oh, this is this sound, you can actually like identify what this is and how to *15:10* how to play it or how to create it. *15:21* If you were writing a song, you could use this melody note over this chord and get the same effect that you got in. *15:23* in that song. *15:29* And so that totally, totally was I think the turning point for me wanting to or for me spending a lot more time thinking about theory and analyzing uh music and and doing that whole thing. *15:30* And then that turned into *15:41* my career. *15:43* So you're basically a a teacher. *15:43* I mean so a musician and a teacher, 'cause you do *15:48* other stuff outside of YouTube, at least last year you did for sure. *15:51* I think of it as entertainment. *15:56* Like I'm not uh *15:58* Edutainment maybe. *15:59* Edutainment. *16:01* You're like schoolhouse rock. *16:01* Yeah, exactly. *16:03* I'm not trying to teach anyone anything really. *16:04* I find this stuff super interesting. *16:06* The way like, you know, if you walk you don't watch a documentary *16:08* to learn you watch it to be entertained and just happens that learning about something interesting is entertaining, you know. *16:12* So I kind of think of it more like that. *16:19* But I've definitely gotten a lot of feedback. *16:20* um from people who have felt like I've taught them things. *16:24* So I've as someone whose understanding of the of music is *16:28* was piano class for I don't know, a year at most in elementary school. *16:35* And I was always more interested in the sons *16:40* Because we went to this lady's house, I was way more interested in her son's Legos Upstairs and his copy of Lego Star Wars than I was in Pi adolescence. *16:43* Sure. *16:54* But I do think *16:54* Your videos have taught me the how and the why of of certain songs and just *16:56* why they work in a video game in these different scenarios and context based off techniques and modes and charts and notes and you know all these terms that are *17:07* f above my head. *17:20* Like real you'll say stuff. *17:21* I'm like, are we doing a math class here? *17:23* Are we doing mus what is you know, there's numbers and chords and bars and it's a completely different language to me, both visually. *17:25* But *17:33* Your approach in the videos is you're showing the music, you're playing the music, or the notes, or or the section, the chord, what have you. *17:34* And it's piece by piece you're breaking it down. *17:45* And I think that combination of visual and auditory with a *17:47* A no holds barred uber technical approach. *17:54* You don't pull back the content. *17:58* You don't dumb it down. *18:01* You know, you're it's this, this, and this, and this is why it works. *18:03* And *18:07* I think if you watch enough of your videos, eventually you pick up words and terms and things like that. *18:07* But I just when I watch it, I go, that's why. *18:12* the Phoenix Wright, you know, courtroom themes hit. *18:17* I play those games, you know, since the DS. *18:21* I'm like, this is *18:24* These soundtracks are awesome, but I never knew why. *18:25* And then you watch and you're like, oh, it's because of this, this, and this mirrored with *18:29* this gameplay or this animation or this story beat. *18:36* And I think that's you're like s edutain or yeah, edutainment. *18:39* You're secretly teaching us and entertaining us at the same time. *18:43* It's I'm glad to hear that uh you think that. *18:47* I you know, uh yeah, there's definitely a lot of terminology that I throw around. *18:50* Um 'cause you have to, kind of. *18:56* And if I took the time to um *18:59* What's the word I'm looking for? *19:04* Define every music theory term. *19:06* That would be like the whole video is just let's talk about what it means when I say the four chord or whatever it is. *19:08* What I say, what is an ostinato? *19:13* That would, you know. *19:15* There's there's not enough time in the day to do that for everything. *19:16* So I just kind of selfishly when I was making videos, I just like I'm not gonna explain this. *19:19* If people know what it means, they know and if they don't they don't *19:24* And I was shocked to find a lot of people commenting like, I don't really understand what you mean, but I enjoyed the video. *19:26* Like, how could you have enjoyed the video if you don't understand what I'm talking about? *19:33* But I think I think having that *19:36* approaching it from the like starting with the emotional impact of the music. *19:39* Like what you're saying with the Phoenix Wright thing. *19:44* Yeah. *19:46* That video came out of like *19:47* All the all those moments in the game where like boom objection the music comes in, those are so powerful *19:49* It feels so good. *19:56* You're like, I know it mirrors when you know the answer to the contradiction. *20:00* You're like, I have this evidence, let's go. *20:04* It's perfect. *20:06* And like everyone who plays those games feels that *20:07* And most people who play those games don't ever think about like if the composer had written the music differently, uh, it wouldn't impact you the same way. *20:10* It's an invisible effect. *20:20* Um people I think kind of take for granted. *20:22* Like the average person, I'd say, doesn't really like I've had I've had lots of conversations with people. *20:25* uh out in the wild like oh so what do you do and then I try to explain my YouTube channel and I've gotten you know answers ranging from like oh that's really cool I understand what you're talking about to people who don't understand like *20:31* Wait, so there's like music that plays in a video game while you're playing the game? *20:44* You know? *20:48* Are you talking about rock band? *20:49* Guitar hero? *20:50* Is that what you talking about those? *20:51* So it's like you I think *20:53* I guess I don't know. *20:56* I I think the appeal of the channel is probably that um insight into oh there is *20:57* The music at play matters and like the down-to-the-note-to-note details, those matter. *21:04* I try to get that across. *21:10* Like if it if any of these notes were different, it would have a different effect. *21:12* But starting from that emotional place, that like the reason why we're talking about this is because of this emotional effect. *21:16* Everyone can latch onto that. *21:22* Everyone who's played the games knows what I'm talking about. *21:23* So I think that is kind of like a way in for people who don't have all the music theory education to know what I'm specifically referencing with all my *21:26* I think that that emotion is is a key cornerstone in m not just the music, I think of also *21:37* I watch uh video essays. *21:45* I think of the YouTube channel Every Frame of Painting. *21:47* And that was one of my earliest examples of just film literacy, learning *21:51* you know, if the camera moves this way or cuts this way, it impacts the emotion and the flow of a scene. *21:57* And so that's a visual language, right? *22:04* of just in our eyeballs. *22:07* But you've over time, I've learned a bunch of terms and then I took, you know, different film courses throughout school. *22:09* So when I watch a movie *22:15* I'm seeing other things of like, oh, they're the camera's not cutting here and it's it's adding tension here. *22:17* And some retroactively, some of that stuff comes back and applies to video games. *22:23* Um *22:28* God of War 2018 and I Ragnarok, they both don't cut away, right? *22:29* And so how do they use that to create tension? *22:33* And then you go watch a Spielberg movie or, you know, that one episode of the Bear and *22:35* It's the one or my gosh, true detective. *22:41* You know, so all this stuff. *22:43* And it's like, how does that impact the emotion of the scene? *22:44* And generally it creates stress in that particular example. *22:47* No, I I love that channel. *22:52* I totally yeah, I totally agree. *22:53* I miss it so much. *22:55* Yeah. *22:57* Did you know that they did um a Netflix show, a little compilation of video essays? *22:57* And yeah, so one is narrated by Tony and then the other is by I want to say it's Taylor Ramos is the partner. *23:05* So they wrote and did everything together. *23:11* But if you want like a hit of every frame of painting *23:13* There are two episodes and they were producers on the other ones. *23:17* I think it's called Noir. *23:19* But it's if you just want to hear Tony's voice talk about movies again. *23:21* That's your hit. *23:26* That's your fix. *23:27* I think that was probably a big influence just in uh the idea of the channel that you could talk about something that technical in a way that's interesting. *23:28* watched all those videos over and over when I was younger. *23:40* Oh yeah. *23:43* I've I've watched *23:44* At all multiple times. *23:47* It's so he's uh I missed And like I'm never going to make a movie. *23:48* I never need to know that stuff. *23:54* So it's not like an educational thing. *23:56* It's just something about that is so fascinating. *23:58* It is like uh the l language learning aspect or something some c something like that, the visual language learning. *24:01* You learn more about why you *24:07* feel the way you do when you watch these things or something. *24:10* I don't know exactly what the deal is, but I think it helps me learn to enjoy things more. *24:13* At least that's what I'm getting out of it. *24:20* And it's the same with your *24:22* music or your videos, I'm learning to enjoy the music in a game more. *24:24* And I've I've always been the kind of person who would rather listen to video game music than *24:30* something else, especially early on back middle school, you know, I'd load my iPod up with the Super Smash Brothers Brawl tracks that Sakurai was putting out in the dojo. *24:35* Um what is Meta Knight's Revenge? *24:45* I got that. *24:48* Oh yeah. *24:49* Totally. *24:50* Yeah. *24:50* You can I can hear the I don't even know if it's a trumpet, but it's coming in the *24:51* You know, like that's my musical background, not necessarily Taylor Swift. *24:57* I didn't grow up at Taylor Swift necessarily. *25:05* So but I'm learning to enjoy it more and why. *25:08* why these things work then just doesn't they don't just sound good aside of it. *25:12* I I get that. *25:17* It does, yeah. *25:18* You enjoy *25:19* You enjoy what you're taking in more when you know more about it. *25:21* I think there's maybe uh or I don't know, I've met people who *25:25* are worried that learning too much about something will kill the magic of it. *25:29* And that just has not been my experience at all. *25:32* But I think it enriches it. *25:35* I think knowing more makes you appreciate it more. *25:36* And then *25:40* Then when something new comes out and then you you pick up on something, you're like, oh that's what they're doing. *25:41* Oh my gosh. *25:48* And there's also so much work that goes into these projects, like a video game, the amount of just man hours it takes to make a video game, the amount of time the composer spent like *25:51* fretting about what what chord to put here and like what sound to use here and stuff to be able to appreciate it more to actually be able to kind of go, Oh, that was such a cool choice. *26:01* Like I don't know. *26:13* It's it's uh *26:13* That's what a lot of projects I don't know. *26:15* I don't know what I'm trying to say. *26:18* No, it it the more goes into it than just here, compose a *26:20* A banger song. *26:25* You know? *26:26* It's Yeah, right. *26:26* You don't just you don't just like come I I suppose some composers probably do just have *26:27* crazy talent that they've honed over years or something. *26:33* I remember in one of your interviews you guys were talking about Jake Kaufman and the guy just apparently *26:36* Like hears it in his brain and then puts it on the machine. *26:42* I don't know. *26:45* You know, there's there are people like that. *26:46* Totally. *26:48* Lots of thought goes into things. *26:49* Lots and lots. *26:51* And it all just to hit in a *26:52* Sixty second cutscene. *26:55* I don't know. *26:56* Or this one gameplay moment, right? *26:57* You know? *26:59* Totally. *26:59* It's makes you appreciate everything more when you know. *27:00* When you know how many decisions went into it, how much work went into it. *27:03* And even the yeah, genius types that just kinda music just flows out of their brain seemingly effortl effortless effortlessly. *27:07* Yeah, it's uh you still it's like when you get deep into it to understand like, oh, that would take even like a pretty good composer, you know, weeks to come up with the soundtrack that he *27:16* You know, whatever. *27:29* Just just could hear like that genius. *27:30* You can uh you can uh you can understand how amazing that is more if you know more about the field. *27:33* I don't know. *27:39* No, I I totally get what you're saying. *27:40* Your your videos are very they have a style to them that I do think is all all you given what I've been watching over years and then the last week of really *27:43* a lot of condensed I you know 8-bit music theory. *27:56* I see a lot of you in the videos and in the personality coming out through them. *28:00* And I think that translates into your your editing style and how you you make these. *28:05* And so I've kind of learned over time that you started out in Windows Movie Maker and Microsoft Paint, which we all did because it was free and available to us. *28:10* That's true. *28:20* But it's very apparent. *28:22* Well the the paint in particular. *28:24* The the paint in particular is hard to ignore. *28:27* But today *28:30* There's you well, at least in 2020, I assume it's still the same. *28:31* You correct me if I'm wrong, but you use a video editor called Hit Film, and then you record everything in Reaper. *28:36* Is that still correct? *28:41* Yeah. *28:43* So as of the last year, um year and a couple months, I have outsourced the visit video editing part of it to uh my editor. *28:44* Okay, you haven't edited. *28:54* But up until I guess whenever that whatever year that was, 2022. *28:55* Up until basically the beginning of 2022, um, I was doing all the editing myself in hit film. *29:01* And uh and then the last year, if you noticed a huge bump up in editing quality, that's why Well, I was just starting to think of some stuff. *29:08* I was like, wow, he I w *29:16* When I heard it, you know, hit film was there's a the free tier, which I I totally get going for that. *29:18* I was like, wow, he can do a lot in this hit film. *29:24* Maybe I should look at Hit film. *29:25* I you can do a lot in the hit film. *29:28* I definitely didn't get to the limits of the program. *29:30* I I uh hit the limits of my ability first. *29:34* And I have a very like it's good enough to put out approach with that kind of thing. *29:37* I think um, you know, we live in a in in a in a world of free *29:41* Content. *29:46* I hate saying the word content. *29:47* Free videos and stuff online. *29:49* And uh it's not that uh you don't have to put work into it, but people are after *29:50* the uh the kind of basic content. *29:56* Like there's a lot of channels that get really popular that have very high production values and you know *30:00* uh maybe a little bit more fluffy actual substance. *30:06* And that's fine. *30:11* But you can I don't think like for what I do, that's something that's a little more technical, that's a little more intensive *30:12* I don't know that super great production values would draw a ton more people in to watch my stuff. *30:20* I think if you want *30:27* to hear someone explain, you know, why secondary dominance sound like Mario music. *30:29* That's a very specific thing. *30:33* And you're gonna like want that and you're gonna try and get that uh regardless of the *30:35* the whatever the production value, but um it's been really great outsourcing the video editing to an editor because it does look better and that's nice. *30:40* And um he was super smart about he kinda he totally got what I was going for stylistically and just did it better and then more of it. *30:49* So it's like awesome. *30:58* Um and then I have way more time to just write videos, which is more fun for me, and I can get more stuff out that way. *31:00* So *31:07* Was that the drive to hire an editor? *31:08* Was yeah well if I can offload this work, I can do more of the work that frankly brings in the money and that you enjoy more *31:11* Yeah, no, definitely. *31:20* It was very much like if it takes whatever uh three weeks to make a video and one of those weeks is just editing the video, then I can make whatever percentage that is. *31:22* a whole extra video every every uh six weeks if I outsource that bit. *31:35* Yeah. *31:40* And uh yeah. *31:41* Do you does does the editor ever get *31:42* the video or this the script, the music, you know, I I I remember the Mega Man video you just did, which was for the Battle Network. *31:46* Yeah. *31:54* Like there's a lot going on in that song. *31:55* And I feel like it was a lot in the video just because you're it's going so fast. *31:57* He's like, why did you do this subsand? *32:01* Why why are we looking at this? *32:03* It's so much. *32:04* Uh I do like I get all the sheet music stuff together, all the visual assets usually, um, and all the little pink handwriting. *32:07* I make my wife do that. *32:15* Uh oh I was gonna ask, is it I was gonna ask whose handwriting or if it's a font, but so it's your wife's handwriting. *32:16* Yes. *32:23* Okay. *32:24* So I think a lot of that I mean it does it I'm sure it is more annoying for the editor to have like a ton of finicky notes on screen and stuff to deal with, but hopefully it's not too much worse. *32:32* He never complains. *32:43* God bless him. *32:44* That's good. *32:46* That's cool to know. *32:47* I was gonna 'cause that was one of my questions with the font. *32:48* I was like, wow *32:51* Uh the the handwriting is different, but maybe that was just because he was using a mouse before and I assume he's using a stylist or something now, so maybe his handwriting just isn't good with a mouse. *32:52* But it's it's it's your wife. *33:01* Yeah. *33:03* That's the big secret. *33:04* That's the big secret. *33:05* Does she ever look at you and go, why? *33:06* Why this many notes? *33:08* Oh yeah, all the time. *33:09* It's like are you kidding me? *33:11* Draw an arrow right right here. *33:12* Right here, sweetheart. *33:14* Yeah. *33:16* I know I actually I get a lot of uh texts while she's working on that going like, okay, what is this word that you wrote supposed to say? *33:16* Does it say mope? *33:24* Does it say rope? *33:25* Like it says note, you know, or whatever. *33:27* So yeah, clearly uh I need to outsource the penmanship in my videos. *33:30* That's unnecessary. *33:34* I don't know if you uh that may not *33:35* give you as big of a return as hiring a a video editor, maybe. *33:39* I don't know. *33:43* I think that's that's really interesting though to *33:44* Cause time is the most valuable resource, and that's ultimately what you're as a creator *33:48* fighting for right is people's time and attention. *33:57* Yeah. *33:59* And so your time is valuable. *34:00* So to make more, you know, you you've authored. *34:02* That's interesting. *34:06* Yeah. *34:08* Why so why five or six years into it, like that was the decision where you at a point where I can't like *34:09* the it's taking too much away or I could do more is I think I probably should have sprung for it way earlier, but I loved *34:18* uh having total control of every aspect of the channel. *34:27* Yeah. *34:30* Um and I'm kind of like a a hermit. *34:31* I've when I started the channel I was living in uh Montreal and I just moved there, so I didn't really know anyone and I picked this up as like a hobby to kill time with. *34:37* And then it kind of took off really fast. *34:47* And so I found myself just doing YouTube all day, every day. *34:49* And uh I was just totally fine being all alone in my little apartment, uh, working on my computer all day, every day. *34:52* Um and any any any amount that you involve other people uh brings just complications in terms of scheduling and and you know communication stuff that I just didn't want to deal with. *35:00* But then yeah *35:11* uh five five years in. *35:13* It was very like, you know, why are you spending so much of your time doing this? *35:14* when it would not be that hard to communicate with one other person, you know what I mean? *35:21* Um so it you know, I just I well really what what what it was is I found a uh editor. *35:26* Um *35:33* There's a guy I know who he actually did uh a YouTube channel talking about video game music called GameScore Fanfare. *35:33* I don't think he's put out video on that channel in a long time, but he that used to be a project of his. *35:41* And um and I kind of so we knew each other online, we'd kind of promoted each other's videos before and stuff, and then *35:46* I saw on Twitter that he was looking for editing work. *35:53* So then you decided to acquire him and take out your competition at the same time. *35:56* Exactly. *36:02* You're like, I'm too big now. *36:04* Here. *36:06* You're now part of eight bit music theory. *36:06* Exactly. *36:11* No, uh *36:12* But yeah, so yeah, it was really just like I had no excuse. *36:14* There's no like, oh I should do that, but it would take some work to find someone, you know. *36:17* It's like really all of the work, everything, you know, kind of fell in my lap, so I couldn't say *36:21* Uh I couldn't put it off. *36:27* But do you edit the audio? *36:28* Yeah. *36:32* So you give him a full completed uh *36:32* Train like uh an audio file of here's the whole episode now put the visuals on top of it. *36:35* Yeah, exactly. *36:40* Yeah, yeah. *36:41* Okay. *36:42* I totally get the *36:42* uh want to have complete control over a product, I'm very much the same way. *36:44* I think a lot of uh particular creators I think are like that. *36:50* Like it's *36:56* I must have control over this piece till it comes out. *36:57* Because if I let someone else touch this, they won't do it the way that I have it in my brain. *37:02* I don't know. *37:11* Kind of you you hear about like writer duos and stuff, but Lennon McCartney, that kind of thing, where it's like, I don't understand how uh you'd have to be so close to a person to be able to *37:13* put your ego aside in that way of to say like, yeah, why don't you change my idea to how you think it should be and we'll see if it's better, you know? *37:25* That'd be tough. *37:32* Well based off that uh *37:33* That documentary that uh Jackson did, Peter Jackson did. *37:36* I don't know if uh Paul McCartney and um *37:40* John Lennon necessarily always put their egos aside. *37:44* No, true. *37:47* But they did have s like years of of doing that before it got harder and harder, I think. *37:48* Right, yeah. *37:54* I just remember a lot of conflict in that documentary. *37:55* Yeah, that's definitely true. *38:00* But that was still really, really, really cool to see. *38:03* I assume you were excited to see that come out as a Beatles fan. *38:06* Yeah. *38:10* I'm a big Beatles fan, big nerd, big Beatles nerd, big Beatles fan. *38:10* The songwriting secrets book still have on my shelf. *38:15* So I was very excited to uh to check out that. *38:19* It was very cool. *38:22* I do think it was too long. *38:23* Like uh I thought it was very, very funny. *38:25* It was so funny to have him announce the length. *38:29* I can't remember what it was gonna be originally in three hours or something a lot more reasonable. *38:31* And then *38:36* To say, just kidding, it's gonna be seven hours long, and then it comes out and you're watching it like, oh, this should have been the original length for sure. *38:37* It's the long time. *38:45* Part of me's like *38:46* I get it. *38:47* You have access to all this raw footage that hasn't been seen in fifty plus years. *38:48* Like how do you even make the decision of what to cut necessarily, especially when it's the Beatles? *38:53* Yeah. *38:57* And then there's also just the I found it fascinating to just watch them create. *38:57* Just unf uncut. *39:03* Just *39:05* The Beatles doing the thing. *39:06* But also it's a long I mean it's a long time. *39:08* I'm probably being too harsh because I I d watched the whole thing. *39:12* So clearly it wasn't too long because I sat through it all. *39:16* And uh and everything that I personally was sitting through thinking like this probably could have been cut. *39:18* I'm sure someone else, you know. *39:24* Thought that about the parts that I liked and they liked the parts that I would have cut, so maybe maybe he was right to just let it be as long as it is. *39:26* He seems to get keep getting longer and longer. *39:37* So I'm sure whatever he does will be crazy. *39:39* Yeah. *39:42* Oh man. *39:43* That was a great documentary though. *39:44* So I wanted to ask the, you know, the your videos are all on YouTube. *39:46* That's kind of the primary platform for your business. *39:52* Now you have the Patreon element, and I want to talk about that as well, but *39:55* But YouTube is is the I'd foundation maybe is the right word. *39:59* You can correct me if I'm wrong, but for sure, for sure. *40:05* YouTube's where it all goes. *40:08* And *40:09* Music on YouTube is a notoriously difficult thing. *40:10* I so much so that the my other podcast chapter select *40:15* Whenever we talk about the music in a game, if you listen to just the regular audio of the show, you'll hear the track beneath us while we're talking about it. *40:20* But on YouTube, I just take it all out. *40:27* I'm like, I don't even want to deal with this. *40:28* Yeah. *40:31* But you uh y your videos is necessitate music, because that's what you're talking about. *40:32* Yeah. *40:37* And *40:38* So I'm how is that for you? *40:40* Because even that to a degree is kind of what drove Insane in the Rain off the *40:42* creation side of the platform. *40:48* He was like, I don't own this music and YouTube is not, you know, they they just have to falter to the copyright. *40:50* And as of this recording, you just put out a video which the about Studio Ghibli which deals with this directly in the video where *40:57* You have to mute certain parts of the video on YouTube because of the copyright auto-strike stuff and there's an uncensored version or unmuted version, maybe is a better word, on Vimeo. *41:08* Which is where I watched it. *41:19* But the the difference between the two is like it's just shy of, I don't know, 4,500 on Vimeo, and then you're around 32,000 on YouTube. *41:20* So I'm *41:29* How do you handle the the whole copyright cloud looming over your channel *41:31* Well, it's interesting that you brought up Insane in the Brain, 'cause I think the thing that makes it so tricky l legally to cover video game music is what makes it possible to talk about it on YouTube, which is that none of it is like officially released, you know. *41:38* Um not none of it. *41:54* Very little video game music is released in like a soundtrack album format. *41:55* And without that kind of release, YouTube can't *42:00* just algorithmically search and and uh and block you for using it. *42:05* Um which I didn't reali like when I started the channel it was just that I liked game music a lot and I thought it'd be a fun idea for a channel. *42:10* And *42:18* Going forward, I had a couple I've had a couple run-ins where I go, oh, that's I'm so glad that I only ever talk about game music. *42:19* Like there was um *42:27* any time I reference any non-video game music. *42:29* There was a video I did on the Spider-Man game that came out a few years ago and uh and I want to make reference to these great kind of superhero themes from superhero films that it clearly draws from. *42:32* And yeah, just like this four snipp snippets, four seconds of the Superman theme, John Williams Superman theme, and it's like, oh no, you can't have that in your video. *42:44* Your video's blocked, whatever. *42:53* It's like, oh wow, that's so annoying. *42:54* I get what everyone else is talking about. *42:57* And then the Ghibli thing really, I was I was completely aware that like this would not be monetizable *43:00* I thought, oh yeah, I'll just let it be demonetized or whatever, and that'll be fine. *43:08* Um and I didn't realize that having Ghibli music in my video would have it be blocked. *43:13* Uh and so then I th okay, so I went back and I recreated all the audio examples with bad MIDI, you know, examples and uploaded it and went through like four iterations where like, oh, this one's still getting *43:18* Picked up and the video is still getting blocked. *43:31* Okay, I'll recreate it with even crappier MIDI samples, you know. *43:33* Yeah. *43:36* So yeah, there were like four iterations, finally got one up that had no copyright blocks on it. *43:37* And I was like, not ideal, but I'll link to the uncensored version. *43:42* And then it wasn't until it went up public and people started watching it that *43:46* I guess YouTube algorithmically muted all the examples in the video, even though they were all MIDI. *43:51* Oh, so they went in they went in and muted it. *43:58* Over you. *44:01* Oh wow. *44:02* I would not have uploaded just a video with no music, because I feel like that's the point of the channel. *44:03* But *44:10* But then like looking at that, I was thinking like they went in and muted me playing just this melody on my keyboard. *44:11* There's no way to *44:18* have this work. *44:20* So I just left it up the way it was and hoping hoping people check out the Vimeo link. *44:20* I think I don't know. *44:26* you know hoping they do and if they don't whatever. *44:28* That's what I did, because I you know, I wanted the full I wanted the real thing. *44:32* You know, the *44:36* The creator's intent. *44:37* Yeah. *44:38* Hopefully the people who really care, who really love Ghibli music and would enjoy that video were would be the ones to hunt out, hunt around in the description and find the other link. *44:39* Yeah, it was super frustrating, and so now I'm very much like, okay, let's stick to video game music. *44:50* So this as mass as it's just discouraged you from exploring *44:55* Yeah, things because you the Ghibli tie is he composed music in Nino Cooney, so now I can talk about Kika's Totory service and Totorapha *44:59* Yeah, very uh you know, just trying to justify like I I love uh Joe Hisish, I love all that Ghibli music. *45:09* So great. *45:15* I have transcribed a bunch of it and think about it all the time, and so I was thinking like this would make a great video *45:16* I should just do it. *45:21* Um But then yeah, with all this headache that came out of it, I'm realizing, okay, let's stick to uh Zelda for a little bit. *45:23* I guess. *45:31* So does *45:32* One of the trends I feel like at least I've noticed, especially I suppose with the vinyl resurgence over the last five to ten years, is I think more and more video game soundtracks are being released. *45:33* for purchase. *45:46* Now, Nintendo, you know, no. *45:47* Sure. *45:50* But other companies are putting out soundtracks to much acclaim. *45:50* I mean, for Pete's sake, uh Jeff Keeley just had a *45:55* a big video game concert at the Rose Bowl, you know, the last of a Sony does a lot of it. *45:59* You just did a video on Diablo 4. *46:04* Like, so these soundtracks are out there. *46:06* Are you noticing *46:07* that that kind of the shroud of mystery over video game music is starting to be lifted and you're you're hitting more walls with that kind of stuff? *46:09* Um *46:18* So far, no. *46:19* So far it hadn't any problems with that stuff, which is great. *46:20* Um I know like, you know, indie games have been releasing soundtracks more regularly than *46:24* the kind of mainstream triple A titles for a long time and I've never, you know, it seems like the type of company that would understand the audience enough to say, oh, we should release the soundtrack as an album. *46:29* would also be the type of company to say, yeah, they can use the music in their v YouTube video, why not? *46:41* You know, so maybe there's a there's a correlation there for why it's not uh not a problem for me. *46:46* But um *46:52* It is nice, like it's really cool to see video game music as a art form, as a genre, be taken, be getting more love from more people in and outside of the industry. *46:54* Yeah. *47:05* I agree. *47:07* And I have probably far too many vinyls of just video game soundtracks, so I am I'm definitely part of the resurgence. *47:08* Yeah. *47:16* The the other piece of of your business, of your channel, is the Patreon, which I was *47:17* surprised to it you've basically had it from the beginning. *47:25* It's uh as far as I could tell, it seemed to have started the Patreon in December of twenty sixteen, but *47:30* Uh the channel was just two months earlier in October. *47:35* So I'm what? *47:39* You are a journalist. *47:42* So what? *47:44* Thankfully you can see dates on Patreon post. *47:45* So I was like, oh, this is I'm able to figure this out. *47:48* Yeah. *47:51* Was it just I'm gonna give people the option to pay me early on, like what *47:53* What drove you so early to identify member support outside of YouTube? *47:57* What was it just maybe I can make money? *48:03* Yeah, that was pretty much it. *48:06* I mean I was I just graduated school um and the next fall was when I'd you know moved to Montreal and I was trying to make it as a musician. *48:08* and this uh YouTube thing I started doing as a hobby. *48:17* And I've I was following YouTubers at the time that I uh uh who had Patreons and this is how they made their living was oh uh mostly through Patreon and some some YouTube ad revenue and stuff. *48:21* So I knew it was possible to do that. *48:31* And um Yeah, working on the channel, I didn't really expect it to go anywhere, but I did know that it was possible for channels to *48:34* blow up so I I uh or not blow up but to make a living even if you're they're not, you know, huge. *48:44* And so I kind of from the beginning decided like, well, I'm gonna have like a brand. *48:51* I'm gonna have this little intro. *48:55* I'm *48:56* That's not just gonna be me sitting on my couch talking about the stuff, like just ranting, rambling. *48:57* I'm gonna like make an actual product. *49:01* And uh and it took off really, really fast. *49:04* Where the first video that I put out got like 2,000 views in whatever a couple days. *49:08* Yeah. *49:14* Um *49:15* And uh so I kind of immediately realized like, oh, I'm hitting on something that people want. *49:16* Um *49:23* Pretty much. *49:27* You're like, well, what happens if I put out more videos? *49:28* Like, oh, people watch these too? *49:30* Like, oh, this is great. *49:32* So yeah, I got a couple months in and *49:33* Kind of thought like, you know, let's throw up a Patreon, see what happens. *49:36* Um see if like people want to watch it, so will people support it? *49:40* And they did. *49:44* Like I think my *49:45* My like top tier Patreon or my top goal, whatever. *49:47* Mo most distant Patreon goal was like uh eight hundred dollars a video or something. *49:51* I can't remember. *49:57* And I remember m typing that in going, Well it'll never hit this, but uh you know, you gotta have something for something on the horizon. *49:58* And then I got there really like in a couple months. *50:07* And so it's just like, oh okay, this is clearly what I'm supposed to be doing with my uh time. *50:09* Um yeah, I don't know. *50:14* I it just I was just copying what other YouTubers have done before me, I guess. *50:16* Well now you're sitting at around just over thirty five hundred dollars a video, which is a lot to I think it's a lot. *50:21* It's a lot of it definitely is. *50:30* Okay, cool. *50:32* All right. *50:33* It's great. *50:33* I mean *50:34* I can have a I have like a house and a family now. *50:35* It's really amazing what what is possible with people's generosity. *50:37* It's it's very cool to see. *50:42* And I I was found it interesting that you were *50:44* early in the channel you rec you recognized an opportunity to step outside of just depending on YouTube and their you know their ad revenue which is *50:47* How much has that changed in the last uh seven years? *50:57* Uh well it's yeah, I mean it's just yeah. *51:00* If for it was just for me personally, the people, the content, again, to use that hated term that I l was interested in, was all stuff that wasn't *51:05* going to be, you know, the most viral stuff on YouTube was not going to get the most ad revenue. *51:13* And so people had to figure out ways to um *51:18* you know, had to get on Patreon, had to figure out ways to to monetize it where they could keep doing what they were doing, keep sitting in their niche and not necessarily um *51:22* have to chase this algorithm or chase the whatever's hot at the time or whatever. *51:32* Who the what's the new hotness these days? *51:37* Exactly. *51:39* Exactly. *51:39* I would uh if you were chasing the hotness, I feel like you would well, let's see, you put out a Zelda video around *51:40* Tears of the Kingdom. *51:47* Yeah, but for the wrong Zelda. *51:48* Yeah. *51:50* Honestly. *51:50* No, I really wasn't thinking. *51:51* No, you put *51:53* Come on, Skyward Sword is I will defend Skyward Sword. *51:54* I'm a defender. *51:57* Especially of that soundtrack. *51:59* Yeah. *52:00* Great, yeah, great soundtrack. *52:01* Fun video to make. *52:02* I was literally like the week before Tears of the Kingdom came out. *52:03* I was sitting like thinking of, you know, kind of scheduling out the rest of my year, and it just hit me like, why am I not *52:07* Talking about Tears of the Kingdom at all. *52:15* What is wrong with me? *52:18* Nothing is wrong with you, 8-bit. *52:20* I promise. *52:21* You've got it covered. *52:22* So I wanna I wanna pivot here before because the the YouTube channel, the Patreon, at least as of last year, are not the only ways that you're *52:24* Making to use the word again, content. *52:36* Um but to you know, uh out stepping outside of music theory and analysis, you put an album out last year. *52:39* uh jazz arrangement of GameCube music called Let's Play by 8 bit and the single players, which I really, really like. *52:47* Oh yeah, oh good. *52:56* Yeah, I like that name a lot. *52:57* Um so before we like get into the album itself and some nitty-gritty, I've got like since I have you, I'm gonna ask you. *52:59* Okay. *53:09* I've been looking at this album art. *53:09* I have questions. *53:11* Okay. *53:13* Did you did you take this picture? *53:14* Yeah. *53:16* Okay. *53:17* So then you can tell me. *53:18* What game is upside down? *53:19* Why is the game upside down? *53:20* Oh, like the disc? *53:24* Yeah, why is the disc upside down? *53:25* Uh, cause I realized right when I was about to take the picture, like, oh, is this gonna be an issue if there's like uh you know licensed *53:27* imagery. *53:35* Like you can't just put a picture of Mario on your album cover, I think. *53:36* I don't actually know. *53:41* I was kind of playing it safe, maybe stupidly so *53:42* But uh that's really funny. *53:45* No one has ever I haven't heard anybody comment on the upside down game disc, but yeah, that would be really frustrating to notice. *53:46* So what is the game I have to know *53:53* It's Super Mario Sunshine, I'm pretty sure. *53:55* Okay. *53:58* And so would that then explain also why the manual is upside down? *53:58* Yes. *54:02* Yeah. *54:04* Cool. *54:04* Well, cuz did you hear about um kind of bloop *54:04* This guy commissioned an album from a bunch of chiptune artists where they recreated Miles Davis's kind of blue using uh uh chiptune trackers and stuff. *54:08* Super cool album, super cool project, very cool idea. *54:19* And um, you know, he I think he was kick started and got a bunch of great um Jake Kaufman was on it, a bunch of great musicians to make this. *54:22* It was such a cool *54:31* fusion of these two very very separate worlds and then he uh uh kind of last minute uh just commissions a little pixel art version of the album artwork to slap on the slap on the band camp page and *54:34* puts it up and then he got sued by the photographer of that original album photo for like a ton of money. *54:47* And they had to settle out of court because he didn't have enough money to continue fighting it and he just like it was a complete disaster. *54:55* Oh, so I'm like, I know it's possible if somebody wants to screw you over for them to screw you over with stuff like that. *55:03* I don't know if Nintendo would ever notice or care. *55:09* But I'm not sure. *55:13* Better safe than sorry. *55:14* Right. *55:15* That was my thought anyway. *55:16* Okay. *55:17* I well, I appreciate it. *55:18* I uh so now at least I know I feel better. *55:19* Yeah, you know. *55:23* Um rest easy. *55:23* I have to also was was cleaning up the potato chips a pain in the butt, because you really you really went for it. *55:25* You've like totally recreated that sleepover energy that I remember with the game cube. *55:31* And so glad that you say that. *55:37* Yeah, that's what I was going for. *55:39* I was going gunning for my eight-year-old sleepover memories. *55:40* And that did involve vacuuming my office. *55:44* Uh I appreciate the commitment to evoking *55:50* that era because I'm I don't know how old you are. *55:56* I'm I just turned twenty-nine and I grew up on the GameCube as well. *55:59* So and it sounds like you also grew up playing the GameCube. *56:03* So I feel like we're close in age or at least *56:06* have fond memories of this. *56:08* I just turned twenty-nine two weeks ago. *56:10* So okay. *56:12* Well we're I'm born on June fifth, so you're you seem to be in late June, early July. *56:13* Okay, there we go. *56:18* Well happy belated birthday to you. *56:20* Oh thank you. *56:22* So we definitely grew up on the same games at the same time, which is really cool. *56:23* It's funny, like I don't know how long these generations are now. *56:29* I don't know how what what the window of time would be. *56:33* I don't either sleepovers with GameCube games, but *56:35* Oh, I remember so many, man. *56:39* You know, the Mario Party, Smash Brothers all night. *56:42* One night me and a buddy started Paper Mario from scratch, and I think we got to the we got to the train, I think. *56:45* Or it may not have been from scratch, but we definitely played till seven in the morning and I remember we stopped after we beat the boss on the train. *56:53* So like we played a lot of Paper Mario that night. *57:01* So good. *57:03* That's such a yeah, totally. *57:04* That's my childhood too. *57:06* Just like, oh, it's like seven in the morning, we should probably stop beating, stop trying to beat this game. *57:07* Never tried. *57:13* Now I have to stop. *57:15* I can't physically do it anymore. *57:16* But I wanted to so this album came out roughly a year ago, I think, May of 22. *57:19* Yes. *57:24* I wanted I guess to know, how's the reception been? *57:25* You know, it's been a year. *57:29* Hmm. *57:31* I it's something that I would listen to. *57:31* When I saw this, I was like, oh, that's right up my alley. *57:33* So it's I've you know I've been bopping along to it. *57:37* uh before before the interview, but I'm just curious how everyone else has been receiving it. *57:39* It's been good. *57:46* Yeah, I had no idea going in. *57:46* Um *57:49* Really, I kinda I just missed playing drums. *57:51* Like uh I used to play tons of drums and bands and stuff, and then when the YouTube channel took off, all of that stuff took a back seat, obviously. *57:54* And I, you know, love doing YouTube and it wouldn't trade it for anything, but definitely five years in, I kind of was feeling like, wow, I miss like why I got into music in the first place. *58:03* I wanna do something, you know, play with people more. *58:12* And so um that's when, you know, started arranging and and trying to get the stuff together and it was a really cool experience to get to record and *58:16* uh record my own arrangements and and do that whole thing. *58:26* I've never done that before. *58:29* And uh yeah I had no idea. *58:31* I kind of knew like if I tie it to the channel in a way then *58:34* more people like people will see it. *58:38* If I don't, nobody will see it probably. *58:40* Right. *58:42* Because I don't know, you know, how you would how you would. *58:42* But I had no idea. *58:45* Like some percentage of the audience is gonna go, oh *58:46* This is cool. *58:50* I want to listen to this music. *58:51* And I know it's, you know, probably less than 10%, but I don't know if it's like 0. *58:52* 1%, you know, or 5%. *58:58* Like I had no idea what to expect *59:00* So I threw it up there and uh the response is like pretty good. *59:02* Definitely, definitely um uh *59:06* Uh yeah, definitely humbling to see a big number uh next of next to like the view count on that kind of thing where you're like *59:11* I don't know. *59:20* I feel I feel like uh this is maybe weird to say, but the YouTube videos I feel like I just kind of throw out *59:20* And it's like it's fine. *59:29* I don't you know, I don't need I don't try and beat myself up over the quality. *59:31* I like find something that I think is interesting to say and I put it out there and throw it up. *59:36* But music being kind of my first *59:40* passion, it feels a lot more personal. *59:43* It feels a lot more like uh scary to put it out there. *59:45* So I'm I'm glad to see that some people like it. *59:50* And now I know. *59:52* Now it was a really good test to see like, oh, okay, this is how much how many views, how many Spotify listens I can expect from *59:53* uh channel fans if I put something out. *01:00:01* So I do want to put out more music going forward and we'll see uh we'll see when and how that happens. *01:00:03* Do it, do it, do it. *01:00:10* I I definitely wanna uh encourage it. *01:00:12* Please. *01:00:15* More more eight bit jazz albums. *01:00:15* GameCube. *01:00:20* I mean you can pick whatever you want, but more GameCube. *01:00:21* Just all GameCube covers, several albums worth. *01:00:25* So could do so much potential. *01:00:28* You could. *01:00:30* You could you absolutely could do it. *01:00:30* So *01:00:33* There's a lot of questions I have about this, but I want to take a second, since you said earlier you forget everything after you put it out there or you do an interview. *01:00:34* Uh there's this quote that you have from you did uh composer code with Matt Kenyon. *01:00:44* Kenyon *01:00:51* I'm saying something like that. *01:00:52* I apologize. *01:00:54* There will be a link in the show notes to it. *01:00:55* But you did this interview and you were talking about um *01:00:57* I'll just I'll just play you the clip. *01:01:01* I'm just gonna play it. *01:01:02* I I can't summarize it. *01:01:03* You said it very good. *01:01:04* Okay, okay. *01:01:06* A lot of young composers, myself included, get really wrapped up in trying to do something really unique. *01:01:07* you know, and like really like, I want to find my sound and uh and it usually doesn't sound that good in my case especially, but um you know, if you if you take your favorite ten songs *01:01:13* and then just steal from all of them, you'll make like some Frankenstein monster song that sounds like all the stuff you like. *01:01:26* And in that way you kind of make your own sound because it's like *01:01:33* You know, not ever like no one else in the world is gonna have the same ten favorite songs as you, you know. *01:01:36* So now you have an album out publicly, you know, where you've had to, I assume *01:01:42* take from your ten favorite songs. *01:01:50* And you know, pick songs too. *01:01:52* You picked I assume some of your favorite gamekeep songs. *01:01:55* So I'm just curious *01:01:58* How you know, how did you struggle with wanting to find your sound for this album and then settling into that and also *01:02:00* I guess taking lessons that you're teaching people about now in your videos of essentially designing music, writing music, you kind of almost *01:02:12* I would imagine have to practice what you preach to some degree. *01:02:22* I'm just curious what that process was like for you picking and writing and arranging *01:02:25* this album. *01:02:32* Right. *01:02:33* Um that does definitely add another level of pressure too. *01:02:34* Like you uh make a living talking about how why music is good and then if you can't put out something good it's kinda like why should I listen to you. *01:02:37* Um I do think uh I yeah, I mean that's so funny. *01:02:46* I totally forgot saying that. *01:02:51* Um *01:02:53* on that interview. *01:02:53* But uh I agree. *01:02:54* I agree with my own point. *01:02:56* I agree with myself. *01:02:57* Yeah. *01:02:59* That was something that I really had to learn in like going through jazz school was that well exactly what I said. *01:02:59* coming in as like an 18 year old drummer and you wanna like just be a I wanna be like a great drummer and sound great. *01:03:06* I don't wanna have to learn like *01:03:13* um st old stuff that people have already played. *01:03:16* I want to be doing something new and exciting. *01:03:19* And the profs all kinda had to beat into my head like, no, you're you sound bad though. *01:03:21* Like you're not *01:03:26* You need to learn how to sound good and you do that by emulating people who are great, you know, the great legendary drummers of the past. *01:03:28* Um, and so I, you know, had to learn how to do that drumming-wise. *01:03:36* And same holds true for writing and arranging and stuff. *01:03:41* And so writing that or arranging for that album, yeah, it was um very much just fine like picking some of my favorite tunes from the GameCube catalog, which is what I'm the most nostalgic for. *01:03:45* And then for some of them it was just uh like perplexing pool comes to mind from Pikmin 2. *01:03:58* I didn't change anything about that tune. *01:04:04* I was just like, how do I how do I arrange this exact *01:04:07* piece of music for the band that I'll have playing it. *01:04:10* And then um other tunes I changed a ton. *01:04:14* Like Delfino Plaza or something, where you just you know, I I always find that super interesting *01:04:18* having a an arrangement of a tune that's completely different from the original. *01:04:24* And that happens, that's like very much in the jazz uh tradition to do that. *01:04:28* Um, but so I was for for the arrangement of the album I was very much thinking, I just wanna be Cassiopeia playing that nineteen eighty five concert. *01:04:33* Like how do I how do I inject that into this as much as possible? *01:04:43* That was my primary goal. *01:04:46* Okay. *01:04:48* And then the um uh secondary influences that I was trying to Frankenstein together I maybe wasn't super conscious of, but um *01:04:48* Uh I've always been kind of a uh like a prog rock fan as a little kid and and uh I'm really into this piano player Haromi from Japan, jazz piano player. *01:04:57* And um I have got a lot of uh people comparing some of the tracks to Frank Zappa, even though I haven't really listened to much Frank Zappa. *01:05:09* But that kind of era of music I'm uh like seventies rock and stuff and and fusion I like a lot, so that stuff all seeped in too I'm sure. *01:05:18* And uh yeah. *01:05:28* I think the thing that I had to learn in the album writing and recording process uh was *01:05:31* To turn off like to not try and analyze what I'm doing while I'm doing it. *01:05:39* Kind of like Roger Ebert, great film critic, famously made like one movie and it was terrible. *01:05:43* Everyone hated it. *01:05:50* Yeah. *01:05:51* So I think it's it's the being a good critic of something and being a good analyst and being a creative person in that field are totally different. *01:05:51* skill sets. *01:06:00* And I uh and I found it impossible to write anything remotely good if I was kind of checking while I was doing it. *01:06:02* Like, why am I doing this? *01:06:08* Like, oh what is this? *01:06:09* What effect does this have? *01:06:10* And so it's like, okay, you just have to try and *01:06:11* write and be creative and then afterwards go and edit it and and be analytical while you're kind of editing your work and go, okay, this doesn't work. *01:06:13* This could be this, you know. *01:06:22* But trying to separate out those two mindsets. *01:06:23* was uh something that I kinda learned how to do better over the course of writing that album. *01:06:26* Yeah, and then after the album came out you *01:06:32* Turned around and made a video about it where you uh how you turned Rainbow Jazz into a jazz or Rainbow Road into a jazz fusion track. *01:06:34* So then you then you turn the analytical side on to Rainbow Road and yourself, which is *01:06:41* I think a good marriage, that that vertical integration they always talk about. *01:06:46* Promote the album, make more channel videos *01:06:51* Yeah, it was good. *01:06:55* And it was yeah, it's easy to justify spending a bunch of time on something if you can make a video out of it. *01:06:56* So I like it. *01:07:02* The were there any songs from the GameCube? *01:07:04* Because like we said earlier, there's so many you could have chosen. *01:07:07* Were there any that you were too *01:07:11* I'm gonna use the word intimidated, but you insert whatever word you want. *01:07:13* But were there any like I I don't want I can't touch that one, it's too *01:07:17* Too much of a binder already. *01:07:22* Like uh I don't know. *01:07:24* My brain goes to stuff from Paper Mario or Dragon Roost, from Wind Waker. *01:07:26* You do have Wind Waker on there. *01:07:32* Uh Mulgara Fight. *01:07:33* Very, very good. *01:07:36* But you know, was there anything like I can't do that? *01:07:37* Or I'm too scared. *01:07:40* Definitely. *01:07:42* There's a lot, yeah. *01:07:43* Um there's a lot of tunes where *01:07:44* They're perfect as they are. *01:07:49* And if you can't kind of play them in the style that they're originally in, I I feel like, oh, I can't touch that then. *01:07:51* Like exactly what you're saying. *01:07:58* Like Wind Waker is uh one of my favorite soundtracks. *01:07:59* of all time. *01:08:03* Very nostalgic for me. *01:08:04* And there's so many of those. *01:08:06* Like Arrol's theme is just beautiful. *01:08:07* The outset island music is *01:08:09* gorgeous and like I love it so much. *01:08:11* But then if I was going to arrange it for a jazz fusion band, you wouldn't be able to just do like a *01:08:13* Uh like it would sound really, really dumb, I think. *01:08:20* Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. *01:08:22* It needs to be more rock and roll. *01:08:25* And you can't make it more rock and roll without just totally stepping on what it is originally. *01:08:26* Right. *01:08:31* Um so yeah, a lot of the tunes on the album *01:08:31* Like the Pikmin tunes are pretty much exactly how they are in the games and I love those I love those soundtracks and those tunes so much, but I I I didn't have to be intimidated because I could just play them as they were and it worked *01:08:34* But then yeah, some of the other tracks, like Delfino Plaza or something, where I'm not like in love with that tune. *01:08:48* It's a great melody, but I didn't feel the same um *01:08:53* Uh I didn't feel like I was committing a blasphemy by rearranging it, you know. *01:08:57* I gotcha. *01:09:04* I'm picking up what you're throwing down. *01:09:04* It is *01:09:07* How is the I've you know perusing your Twitter uh looks like you've been playing the album around around town as it were, up there in *01:09:09* Winnipeg, Canada, up there. *01:09:19* How's that been going? *01:09:21* It's been really fun. *01:09:24* That's uh kind of the biggest *01:09:25* Um like the reception to the album's been great, but my favorite part of having an album out is being able to apply for Jazz Fest and and *01:09:28* Conventions and things like that. *01:09:39* Say like look here here's audio proof that I have songs that I can play tomorrow. *01:09:40* Yeah *01:09:46* Um it's been really, really cool playing live for people. *01:09:47* Um especially like out in the real world, outside of the video game internet niche where like I played in the Winnipeg Jazz Festival this year and last year. *01:09:50* And um both times it was really cool because you could see a bunch of people come out who were there because they were fans of the channel and and just happened to live in Winnipeg and *01:10:01* So that was super cool. *01:10:10* And then also lots of people who are just there because they go to Jazz Fest and check out jazz fest shows and we're going, oh, what's this about? *01:10:11* And you get to like *01:10:18* make a case for video game jazz fusion, you know. *01:10:20* You had to go like, I know you don't know about this, but check it out, you know, what do you think? *01:10:22* And that's super fun too. *01:10:27* Got a lot of *01:10:28* Got to talk to a lot of people after um like older older guys who were kind of like you know what this is really cool actually so that was awesome. *01:10:30* What's this Super Smash Brothers? *01:10:38* Yeah, exactly *01:10:41* My bandmates, the guys, um uh a lot of them are guys I went to school with, and they're all I just like tried to find the best musicians who I knew in Winnipeg. *01:10:43* And they all killed it. *01:10:52* Super great players. *01:10:53* Very fun to play with. *01:10:54* And none of them really are video game dudes at all. *01:10:55* Um, so it was a lot of like *01:10:59* What's uh what's this one about? *01:11:01* You know, like none of the new the music going into it and so hearing them be like, oh this is really fun, like oh I really enjoy this. *01:11:03* This is a cool tune. *01:11:09* Like that's cool too. *01:11:11* It feels like you're spreading the word. *01:11:12* Spreading the the gospel of the game cube twenty years later. *01:11:14* Exactly. *01:11:17* And they're like, oh I'd like to play this game. *01:11:19* How much does it cost? *01:11:20* Uh bad news. *01:11:22* Bad news for you. *01:11:25* You're a few years too late to get in on the ground floor of this. *01:11:25* Do you think *01:11:31* If you you know I'm gonna say when. *01:11:33* I'm gonna just assume that you're gonna make another album eventually. *01:11:36* Yeah. *01:11:40* Do you actually want to return to the GameCube or would you explore a different *01:11:41* m a platform and a console or a game series or something, or do you do you actually want to kind of stay in the GameCube realm? *01:11:46* No, I def well when I when I came up with the idea of the GameCube album, I thought, oh, and it would be cool to do a Super Nintendo album, a Wii album, you know? *01:11:54* Uh that was my original. *01:12:04* The Wii menus alone, you could fill an album up. *01:12:06* Yeah, totally, right? *01:12:09* Oh my god. *01:12:10* There's too many great tracks outside of the GameCube canon to just stick to the GameCube canon, even though that is like where my uh *01:12:11* For my where I live, I think. *01:12:19* Um But yeah, lately I guess like being a year out thinking about starting another project, I think I wanna I think it *01:12:21* makes more sense to try and do smaller recording projects. *01:12:31* Like instead of trying to do like a full album and another full album another full album. *01:12:36* in the modern age, I think it probably makes more sense to try and, you know, record four or five tunes and then throw them up. *01:12:41* And then record four or five tunes, throw them up. *01:12:49* So it'd be cool to have like smaller themed *01:12:51* uh you know EPs I guess little pieces of output. *01:12:54* I don't know what people call their own. *01:12:58* EPs, LPs. *01:12:59* Yeah. *01:13:01* Tra I don't know. *01:13:01* All I know is more music shows up and then I'll I'll listen to it if it's from music that I want. *01:13:03* That's that's cool though. *01:13:09* I like it. *01:13:10* I do think you know, Mario Kart. *01:13:10* Isn't, you know, a bad place to shop around. *01:13:14* I was actually just thinking about that the other day. *01:13:18* I was listening to, you know, uh *01:13:20* Super Bell Subway from the Mario Kart 8 has like insanely good music. *01:13:22* That whole game is insane. *01:13:27* And they just keep adding more. *01:13:31* Yeah, so good, dude. *01:13:34* Oh my gosh. *01:13:36* I would like you. *01:13:36* And of course you have a video about Dolphin Shoals as any self-respecting *01:13:37* Jazz musician slash video game music analysis individual would uh would attempt to tackle because that that track is a bop, a binder. *01:13:42* Absolutely. *01:13:53* Oh my goodness. *01:13:54* Well, thank you so much, 8Bit, for for taking the time and joining me today. *01:13:55* Where where can the people find you? *01:14:00* I know we've talked about it a lot, but you've got your YouTube channel, 8Bit Music Theory. *01:14:02* Patreon, 8 bit music theory. *01:14:08* Yep. *01:14:11* Twitter, 8 bit music theory. *01:14:12* You're very consistent. *01:14:13* Yeah, I yeah, I'm I'm glad that the name wasn't taken anywhere, because it's just 8-bit music theory anywhere you look. *01:14:15* Good. *01:14:22* Keep it simple. *01:14:22* Awesome. *01:14:25* Yeah. *01:14:25* I hope uh thanks for having me on and let me talk about the album and stuff. *01:14:26* And yeah. *01:14:29* Oh my gosh. *01:14:30* Thank thank you for taking the time out of your day to talk to me about all this and teach me some more stuff. *01:14:30* about music and music theory and how you know a little bit of how the sausage gets made. *01:14:35* So I really, I really, really appreciate your time. *01:14:41* There will be links to all of 8 bits. *01:14:43* stuff in the show notes from the album to the Patreon and the YouTube channel. *01:14:46* So go check all of that out. *01:14:50* As for me, if you'd like you can find my writing over at maxfrequency. *01:14:52* net. *01:14:56* And you can check out my other show, Chapter Select, where we pick a series and bounce back and forth between its entries to explore their evolution, design, and legacy. *01:14:56* Season five, which was Resident Evil, just wrapped up, and we're getting ready. *01:15:04* to announce season six as of this recording, it'll be by by this upcoming Wednesday. *01:15:08* But uh it's that will start here in August and it is uh *01:15:14* I'll say this, 8-bit has covered some of this franchise's music. *01:15:18* It's it's no slouch, it's a little popular, so that uh look forward to that. *01:15:22* You can check more out uh by going to chapterselect. *01:15:27* com. *01:15:30* Ford slash season six. *01:15:30* You can check that out there. *01:15:32* But thank you all so much for your time and until next time. *01:15:33* Adios. *01:15:36* I was just actually I just finished your Breath of the Wild four-parter before this. *01:15:43* I was like, how am I gonna fill the the remaining hour here? *01:15:48* Oh. *01:15:51* I'll go back to 2017-2018. *01:15:52* Or 17. *01:15:56* I guess it was all in 17. *01:15:56* That was a long time ago now. *01:15:58* Cl close to the start of the channel, yeah. *01:16:00* Yeah, yeah, that's pretty pretty early. *01:16:02* You really you really kind of just came out. *01:16:05* I'm just gonna do a bunch of Zelda stuff like really big hot tracks, you know, like you were gonna start small. *01:16:07* You were like, here's Zelda, here's Final Fantasy, here's Sonic. *01:16:14* Well I didn't expect to make more than a couple videos. *01:16:18* Uh it was pretty like like uh I was kinda like that these *01:16:21* Zelda tunes are so cool. *01:16:26* Uh f I'm gonna make a little video about how cool they are, you know *01:16:29* And now it's your job. *01:16:34* So I like blew all the Zelda Hyrule field themes in one video. *01:16:35* And then after I got going and realized like, oh, that could have been a lot more videos. *01:16:39* That could have been *01:16:45* You can always always go back. *01:16:46* Yeah, true. *01:16:50* People will always hope that no one goes back and watches uh those old videos now because they're I don't know if they hold up, but *01:16:51* Uh I've I've watched quite a handful of them. *01:16:58* I think they hold up. *01:17:00* The the MS paint is a little interesting, but other than that, what you're talking about actually holds up. *01:17:01* But my humble roots are on full display. *01:17:07* It was I was like, whoa, this is MS paint for sure. *01:17:14* That's a circle. *01:17:16* Clearly drawn with a mouse. *01:17:18* Yeah, yeah, exactly. *01:17:20* And you'd you would like uh you would invert the sheet music. *01:17:21* So if you were talking about one section it'd be the the traditional white and black, but if you were don't look at this, you'd flip it, so it'd be black and white. *01:17:26* Oh that I totally forgot about that. *01:17:33* Yeah. *01:17:35* Right. *01:17:42* Yeah, the playback line. *01:17:42* That makes sense. *01:17:44* Uh follow the bouncing ball, that's what I should have instead th *01:17:45*