# [[MFP30 - “Born to Test This Stuff” with Marc “Try4ce” Duddleson]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hello everybody and welcome to the Max Frequency Podcast. *00:00* I'm your host, Max Roberts, and joining me this time it's Mark Triforce Duttleson from My Life in Gaming. *00:03* Mark, hello, how are you? *00:09* Hey you're doing pretty good. *00:10* Thanks for having me. *00:12* Oh, of course, thank you for coming on the show with me. *00:13* Uh it's a huge it's a huge honor. *00:16* I've I've been watching My Life in Gaming for nine years now. *00:18* Which feels a long time. *00:22* Because uh the *00:28* Uh the 10th anniversary of the channel is actually this coming October 1st. *00:31* You guys you guys do anything for it? *00:37* I don't know. *00:44* I mean we we have been thinking about doing I mean I know I know videos have been a bit slow this year and we are uh *00:44* We're kind of we kind of finally got a lot of things off our plate that are is going to allow us to uh really get back on track. *00:51* track and we we are talking about maybe doing sort of a a a quick fun video to maybe sort of celebrate uh ten years. *00:59* We'll we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll see what happens, but uh we we we sort of have an idea at least. *01:08* I l I love to hear that. *01:13* I I found the channel, I think, uh I think like most folks, or maybe not, I don't know. *01:15* I don't know how the YouTube algorithm works. *01:21* I found the channel because of a Kotaku article nine years ago. *01:23* Which dropped like four days after or something, the original RGB 101. *01:25* And I think like most people who watched RGB 101, learned about the Frame Meister. *01:31* and respectively had their minds blown that an NES could produce Rasia Sharp pixels like that. *01:37* Like *01:45* it was always a blurry mess until until I found out uh you know through every upscalers and all that stuff through you guys. *01:46* That's when I learned about it, which would have been like August. *01:54* Late actually probably nine years ago, this week roughly, I think is probably when the article went up. *01:58* Yeah, it I do believe it was August, because it was just a bit shy of one year of *02:04* The channel. *02:10* Okay, I just pulled it up. *02:15* Yeah, we're we're like right in the ballpark. *02:17* We're right there, yeah. *02:19* I mean, we've definitely kind of become known as a *02:21* Tech channel, but that was never the intent from the beginning. *02:24* Like that this was just like In fact when we released that episode, I don't think we had the RGB like *02:29* 101 branding on it. *02:36* Uh, because it was just like, hey, here's this really cool thing that we're excited to talk about. *02:39* Like this this really made a big difference in *02:44* How we play games, how we capture games, in a lot of ways led to us doing the channel in the first place because we were just like *02:47* Hey, we've got this really great way to record original consoles. *02:56* I don't think a lot of people on YouTube *03:02* Are actually showing the original consoles in their recordings, or if they are, they're not showing them in as good a quality. *03:05* So we just thought. *03:14* W you know, we we've got this capability uh to record, you know, from you know NES to PS3 and really good quality. *03:16* we we should finally, you know, get off our butts and make a YouTube channel. *03:25* I mean, it's something that that I had thought about doing for a long time, but just *03:29* wasn't really able to muster the the willpower and energy to do it by myself. *03:33* So well that kinda that leads me to *03:40* I guess the when you go back, I I I don't know if this is a new feature on YouTube, but now when you click on a channel's videos, there's a button to sort by the oldest, like just to go to the oldest videos first, which is actually super helpful. *03:44* uh to see all sorts of embarrassing things that I used to do on the internet and I'm sure many other people. *03:55* Like I even I have tutorials of how to *04:00* record your computer screen or emulate games. *04:03* So I was using emulators and stuff. *04:06* J Nest tutorial. *04:08* Like that's how far back I was going with that stuff. *04:09* But *04:13* I you know, I'm watching these videos at the beginning of the channel and it's all backloggery stuff, like how to beat certain games, DuckTales, I think. *04:14* is the first video you guys did. *04:22* Yeah. *04:23* And then Corey would have these one-offs like Star Fox or Wonderful 101, I believe, and things like that. *04:24* So I guess really, how did you two meet in *04:30* What was the original inception behind the channel? *04:34* Because, like you said, it wasn't RGB masterclass kind of series, it was old video games and a lot of games. *04:36* Yeah, yeah. *04:44* Uh so *04:45* Uh this does go back to the backloger. *04:47* I don't I don't know if you're familiar at all with what the backlogry is. *04:49* I I am. *04:53* Um but you could you could explain it for the listener. *04:53* Yeah, so it's uh a website that uh me and a couple other friends founded back in 2007 for uh maybe about a year and a half up to that point *04:57* we had been doing uh this backlog tracking thing just kind of amongst ourselves. *05:10* Kind of we we had like a few different systems for how we did it. *05:18* We we did it like through like just a shared blog *05:21* And then later we kind of developed started developing this system where I I didn't really develop it because I'm not a developer, but you know, I I was I was I helped with ideas and some some graphics and stuff. *05:24* But yeah, we kind of developed this *05:36* system for tracking like our our game backlog. *05:39* And we found it to be really rewarding and thought, you know, maybe other people would be interested in in doing this too because it *05:43* It was just kind of taking a look at our collections and being like, you know, instead of just like running out and buying another game, like, I I look at all these NES games I've never finished. *05:51* Like, I really want to do that. *06:01* And it also kind of helped me to like develop kind of the grit to, you know, like get past some of those like infamously difficult NES games like, you know, your Ninja Gaidons and your Battletoads and *06:03* Stuff like that and it's like, hey, like I can do the I can do this. *06:15* Like I can, you know, it is as long as I have that motivation to just get like one more unfinished game on my shelf. *06:19* It's like I I can I I can even beat Battletoads like without cheating. *06:26* Like that felt really good and really satisfying. *06:31* So we we got that site out in *06:34* Uh 2007. *06:37* It's really ancient looking now. *06:38* Um, a new version of the site has been a looong time coming. *06:40* It did early on. *06:45* Yeah, uh it did early on uh have a total revamp maybe two or three years into it. *06:47* So it doesn't look exactly like it did in 2007, but it's yeah, it's it's kind of *06:54* of a era of the internet that I suppose is already a little bit nostalgic, maybe. *06:59* Um so yeah, it's it's dated, but the the beta version for the new site did go up pretty recently and uh yeah, so it's *07:05* It's uh I it's it's exciting uh that you know a new version of the backloggery is gonna be out there that will hopefully be uh *07:13* A pe more appealing for for new people to join. *07:21* But anyway, I mean it developed a really great community. *07:23* Uh and we started streaming uh and we still stream to this day on Monday nights. *07:27* Um *07:32* We started streaming in 2008 and you know that kinda also helped foster a community and uh just just a really great bunch of you know mostly pleasant people. *07:33* And uh Corey was just, you know, one of those people who joined the community probably 2008, I want to say. *07:46* And I I was probably aware of him by like 2009, maybe. *07:54* And, you know, we just *07:58* we kind of just became friends because we both had um you know uh our pr professions were in in video production and video post production. *07:59* And uh, you know, so we had similar jobs, we sort of had some similar game interests, we were playing a lot of the same games at the time. *08:10* Uh so so yeah, we just kinda got to be friends. *08:18* Um eventually we met up uh in person with a bunch of other people from the backloggery community uh at a convention and *08:21* 2000 well might have been the year we started the channel actually might have been 2013 2012 2013 um *08:32* And uh yeah, I you know, we we just we kind of we were both kind of looking at the Frame Meister on these websites, uh the the this German website specifically. *08:43* where this guy uh uh was reviewing like all of these like upscalers and like most of it was like *08:56* like video file type stuff and also like really expensive s like stuff like so like you know high-end *09:04* uh home theater stuff, you know, sold to like, you know, really rich people and things like that. *09:12* And they weren't so much designed for games, but they were um *09:17* Uh some of them did have interesting applications for games and and uh uh but the frame meister was kind of like the *09:22* You know, the first one that really hit this sweet spot of like this works great for games and yes, it's expensive, but it's relatively affordable. *09:31* Like it had a really good like *09:39* price to benefit ratio. *09:42* It was about $300 around that time. *09:44* It was. *09:47* Yeah. *09:47* I mean the the price fluctuated because it was, you know, sold in in yen. *09:48* Yeah. *09:52* Oh yeah. *09:52* So a around the time we bought it it was like $300. *09:53* uh which seemed like a lot to put into like retro gaming at the time but really I mean you think about it it's like well this is what you would be paying for a new console maybe less than you would be paying for a new console *09:56* And if you, you know, are relatively serious about retro games, like it it didn't seem that *10:10* unreasonable in a lot of ways. *10:18* So yeah, we were we were kinda looking over that and uh eventually Corey took the plunge. *10:20* I wanna say it was like maybe spring that year and I'm like, oh my gosh like *10:28* that's a lot of money you're spending on this thing that like we're looking at these screenshots on this German website and it's like this this can't even be real. *10:32* Like there's no way this actually works the way that it looks like it does. *10:39* Like you can't *10:43* The original systems don't output that quality. *10:44* We know this, right? *10:47* And then, you know, we he got it. *10:48* He sends me the pictures, and I think, you know, within a month I'd ordered my own. *10:51* You know, we started uh looking at other capture cards that uh were really good uh for the time anyway. *10:55* you know, like 720p sixty HDMI, you know, that was kind of a difficult thing to actually record at the time. *11:03* And uh we were like, you know, we've got this capability, we should *11:10* We should, you know, make a YouTube channel. *11:15* And then, you know, so we spend all this time like trying to get really good capture, or at least what was considered good capture for the time. *11:17* Uh, and then immediately we just like record HD footage and *11:24* Turn it into VHS. *11:29* Oh, that's right, because it's all this it's styled after those old tapes. *11:36* Right. *11:40* So that was an idea that Corey actually had *11:41* probably before like we even got our frame meisters and uh were talking about that stuff. *11:45* uh talking about seriously about making a youtube channel because he was like he he he he like found some uploads of those game players game tapes which he had a ton of nostalgia for *11:52* And I don't recall seeing those specifically myself back in the day, but I I I love the VHS aesthetic. *12:03* I love, you know, just *12:11* Campy cheese like that stuff. *12:12* I love the idea of I mean it really also made me think of like NES manuals and stuff where like they're always like kind of misinterpreting like what is this thing? *12:14* Like they're calling it something weird that *12:23* Doesn't actual isn't actually what it's supposed to be, or they're using weird terms that sort of just don't make a lot of sense. *12:26* Like the the people writing the script and the people reading the script just had you can just *12:34* tell that they only have like the vaguest idea of what's going on. *12:39* And I loved that idea. *12:45* I loved I loved uh looking at these things like, what what if what if you made *12:46* videos like this except it was for new games. *12:51* And um and so that was when we said, hey, let's make a YouTube channel. *12:55* It wasn't *13:02* It was kind of intended to be like, well, we'll look we'll do modern games, we'll do retro games, because we can record them all. *13:03* And we just thought a good thing that might grab attention *13:11* uh from the get go uh would be l uh these these VHS tapes. *13:17* Because it's sort of just like *13:23* This like it's it's fun, it's easy to understand like what the joke is, what we're going for with this. *13:25* We're playing it very straight and um *13:31* Yeah, we just we thought like, you know, that this stands a chance of getting some attention. *13:35* And it did, like that very first video was DuckTales Remastered. *13:40* The game had just come out, and *13:44* You know, I think it I'm trying to remember if it did get posted on like Kotaku or Destructoid or one of those sites. *13:48* Um, it got retweeted by uh w Wayforward. *13:56* Okay, yeah, yeah. *14:00* Which was which was really cool. *14:01* Um *14:03* You know, so so yeah, that was that was really cool. *14:04* Like I think we we were like, yeah, this this turned out well. *14:07* Like *14:11* It it definitely got more eyes on the channel early on than than it would have if we just uploaded *14:12* Something else. *14:22* Like it was just sort of a a high concept thing as you is is as you'd call it. *14:23* Uh that's just like *14:28* funny and people want to share it. *14:30* Um and then but the idea was always Cor Cory always corey was the one who came up with the name My Life in Gaming because *14:32* He really liked this podcast that I think was called Um This American Life or something like that. *14:41* Yeah, oh still going on, yeah. *14:47* And he he was just kind of inspired by that of just like, you know, like let's *14:49* Let's just talk about like our life and gaming or or or or just things we want to talk about. *14:54* And we thought that that would only be *15:01* something that people would find if there was some other something else that brought them to the channel first. *15:05* So that was when Corey started doing like his Star Fox video um and a few other reviews. *15:11* And then I think the first one that had *15:17* both of our voices in it was the one that w that I saw you you dig it up and oh my gosh I'm so embarrassed of it but it was the one where we did the *15:20* Oh, was it the top ten games of the generation? *15:29* Yeah, the PS4 and the Xbox One were about to come out. *15:33* Yeah. *15:37* So It was it's really interesting to hear your guys' voices before b you know before RGB 101 and *15:39* What the channel really is identified the tone that you guys have today I think is obviously a bit different than these early videos, a little bit. *15:48* Yes. *15:57* I mean it's so funny because I mean, you know, we considered ourselves visu *15:57* video professionals and then you you go back and look at that it's like the audio's so bad there's like this buzz in my audio I'm like I considered this acceptable what the heck *16:00* Standards change, skills change. *16:11* It has been almost 10 years. *16:13* Yeah, well You should see the stuff I was making ten years ago. *16:15* It was with like a flip phone camera and God only knows what kind of audio. *16:18* Windows Movie Maker *16:23* Yeah, it's rough looking back at your early stuff. *16:25* And and you know, g people always say it was like ASMR Corey because he was he well, the thing was he and his wife lived in New York City at the time. *16:27* And their daughter had just been born. *16:39* And so he was talking really quietly because he he didn't want to wake her up. *16:41* I totally I we just had a daughter a year ago and before we bought this house in May *16:49* We were in an apartment and my office was in her bedroom and I wouldn't record while she was sleeping. *16:56* Obviously that would never work, but you know, she'd be asleep in the other room waiting for me to finish and it'd be like, I have *17:01* Everybody, how are you? *17:08* Yep, yep. *17:11* So I totally get uh don't let the baby don't wake the baby while recording. *17:12* But now I have a whole separate *17:16* building so I can be as loud as I want, I suppose. *17:19* Nice. *17:22* Nice. *17:22* It's it's very it's very nice in here. *17:23* I'm very happy. *17:25* Um *17:26* You know, it's kind of just a little crazy. *17:28* I've talked about the time and stuff, but you know, you've said that you and Corey are *17:32* your backgrounds, your jobs. *17:39* I I do is is all this stuff your your job job now or do you still do *17:41* Like, do you have a nine to five? *17:47* I have a nine to five. *17:48* I mean Cor Cory Corey does have I mean w we've we've gone like back and forth over the years of like um you know when we started the channel we both had full-time jobs *17:49* Um, and then went several years without. *18:00* Um, Corey did pick up a remote job, but you know, he has a whole lot of freedom and flexibility. *18:04* with it. *18:10* Sure. *18:10* Um, you know, we're it it's it's not like you make a ton of money doing this stuff, but you know, I am I can I can make it work. *18:18* I can make it work. *18:27* You know, it's uh I I have very narrow mental bandwidth. *18:28* Uh I I can't like juggle a lot of tasks at once. *18:33* I'm not a multitasker. *18:37* Uh I I work best when I can just like *18:39* focus solely on like one project at a time. *18:41* Uh so I I I find myself working best when I don't have a lot of uh lot of other distractions. *18:45* But, you know, I've I've taken on, you know, freelance work with, you know, uh various game companies here and there, you know, editing trailers and stuff. *18:52* Like that. *19:00* Cool. *19:01* Well, I'm curious then how you guys kind of were doing remote work before it was cool. *19:02* Yeah, yeah. *19:08* I mean for *19:10* f for this long, the two of you have not lived in the same state. *19:11* You cut out guys in the the east coast, northeast. *19:14* I guess why Corey's now in like Kentucky or something, so *19:17* Yeah, he's I mean Cincinnati area, but he is in Kentucky. *19:20* You know, I I always tease him because he's he's like whenever people ask where he's from, he's like, Oh yeah, I'm from Cincinnati and I'm like, Come on dude, you you live in Kentucky *19:23* Just embrace it. *19:34* But this channel is always *19:36* To me, been a joint effort between the two of you and then other people you bring in to, you know, help or consult and give you advice and all this sort of stuff. *19:40* How like how has that process worked and evolved over the years? *19:49* The two of you working together? *19:53* When is it when is it uh *19:54* I'm I'm gonna do this video, Corey, you're gonna do that one, or this is one we're gonna team up on, like a RGB. *19:57* Right, right. *20:03* I mean it it generally just kind of depends on, you know, like *20:04* like where our interests are with the video or who has access to what hardware. *20:06* You know, it's uh that does surprise people that it's like, oh wait, you guys don't live near each other? *20:12* Um I mean it's not so far apart that, you know *20:17* w we can't visit, you know, when we want to, you know. *20:21* I mean, w it's only about like an eight or so hour drive. *20:25* Yeah. *20:28* But uh but yeah *20:29* I I mean we've always used Dropbox. *20:31* Like that uh that is like s has always been just really consistent for syncing files. *20:34* Uh and you know it's just like, hey, like can you get me a B-roll shot of this? *20:41* And you just put it in Dropbox, and then, you know, sometimes you just edit straight out of Dropbox. *20:46* right like you don't even like copy it anywhere else like you know it it could that can be a very efficient way uh of of working especially when you're like trying to get something done quickly and you're like oh I don't want to copy this like *20:50* I'm just gonna edit out Dropbox. *21:01* I always found Dropbox worked better than Google Drive for that kind of purpose. *21:03* Like syncing always seemed a little flakier, but Dropbox uh has always been good. *21:06* But there we do have like a network access storage. *21:11* uh that lives in Corey's house. *21:14* Um that's not quite as good for syncing stuff. *21:17* It's a little slower even though he's got like really good fiber internet. *21:21* Um *21:24* I don't have that option here. *21:25* But it uh, you know, that that that works. *21:27* Uh so yeah, we just, you know, we oftentimes we will *21:30* provide a lot of support for whoever is the editor for that episode or if they uh you know if they're like the only editor on that episode, you know, the other person will provide as much B-roll as they can. *21:36* can or as much. *21:48* We we like to call it G-Roll. *21:49* Gay game like direct capture gameplay footage. *21:51* We just call it G-Roll for like game. *21:54* So that's that's just become that's just become our term that and you know we've kind of spread that among a few friends that you know they they understand they understand what we're talking about when we when we distinguish between B-roll and G-roll. *21:56* B-roll was shot with a camera, G roll is direct capture. *22:08* Gotcha. *22:11* I like because you your videos are full of, you know, the A, B, and I guess G role as well. *22:12* Cause you've got you've got those uh *22:16* Oh, the slider shots? *22:19* You know, I mean and people might think like, oh like you're putting out a lot of effort, like making all these fancy moving shots, and the reality is *22:24* Uh I I I I I I think they let you be lazy because the slider shot and just because there's like movement in it, it like it looks *22:32* cool and you can also like linger on the shot for a little longer because there's movement and it remains interesting for longer. *22:42* So it actually lets you get more *22:50* Interesting shots more quickly and more easily and let you use them for longer in editing. *22:54* Yeah, so so we we we do stuff like that. *23:00* What we've found kind of in more recent years though *23:03* Uh is that when we both appear in an episode, generally speaking, over the past, like, I don't know. *23:07* Three or so years when we're both in the episode, we are usually the editors on the parts that we are speaking in. *23:16* So we we we used to do it to where like okay I'm editing this episode, Cory's editing this episode, and we like record our on camera parts and our VO and we trim down the VO, you know, so that we cut out the the outtakes and stuff. *23:25* But then we hand that to the other person, they put together the the whole episode, and then we just like provide B-roll and G-roll to that. *23:39* editor. *23:47* But now we we've kind of found that to be a a better work process generally to where we're just editing our own parts and then one of us uh most likely *23:47* uh whoever finishes last oh is the one who actually puts together the final file. *24:00* Like we'll like Cory like if I'm running behind, Corey will export his uh *24:05* segments is like a pro res file, put it on Dropbox, and then I, you know, alternate between us and you know make sure that you know his audio levels are relatively balanced to mine and you know *24:13* I don't have to make any major changes. *24:25* Um, but but the reason that works so well is it lets us divide up topics kind of by our area. *24:27* of interest. *24:34* You know, so like, for example, like I really like getting into like scalar numbers and you know and you know talking about like you know *24:35* Exactly how the interpolation, that's your thing in this particular example, and you know, really doing that pixel peeping type stuff. *24:44* Um and *24:53* You know, he he was doing a lot of that for a long time too, and then he eventually was just kind of like *24:55* Like I feel like I'm pretending to be you when I do this, you know? *25:02* Like like he's he's riding it like I would ride it, but then he never feels like he quite he wasn't feeling like he quite got it *25:06* Right. *25:14* So uh like he like kinda got to a point where he's just like, I'm gonna leave all that like resolution stuff. *25:15* You you you ramble on about that. *25:22* Um but then on the other hand, like he's so much um *25:25* There's so many things like you know he's so much more knowledgeable about like flash carts and um like save files. *25:30* I was gonna say he's his I'm looking at his save card video stuff right now and I was Yes *25:39* What was it? *25:43* I was watching your stream Sunday, 'cause you guys stream every Sunday night. *25:43* Uh and the mem card d uh PS two was mentioned, and he was like, It's an insta pre order and I was like, Yes it is. *25:47* Oh yeah. *25:54* Yeah, yeah. *25:55* And and he's so much better at like *25:55* uh uh you know paying attention to like firmware updates and like news and stuff that's like coming up coming up and and you know retro gaming and stuff and so he's like usually more aware of like *25:58* new features and new products and things and so uh he like really gets into some of those other features *26:10* that uh that I don't know as much about. *26:18* So we can we can really like tune things to our our area of interest and that that keeps our energy up. *26:23* uh you know through uh the editing process sure and uh and then ultimately at the end of the day *26:29* You've made a video that is twice as long as the effort you've put into it. *26:37* And that's actually really satisfying because you're like wow like I put in like you know I I made 20 minutes worth of video *26:42* And but I'm actually releasing a 40-minute long episode. *26:50* And it's like that that feels that feels kind of good, actually. *26:53* So it yeah, it's it's evolved over the years how we divide uh and assist each other. *26:56* I think it's remarkable to hear that and the video style and editing I think is uh in those episodes in particular where it's the two of you *27:03* is so consistent. *27:13* There is a there is a my life in gaming like style to a video. *27:14* Yeah. *27:19* I mean there really is and for two people to be editing that, two different people who have different tastes and styles *27:20* To come together and make one thing I think's really cool, especially remotely. *27:26* Yeah, I mean, and that's good because I mean, you know, you don't like I see differences and Corey sees difference. *27:31* Um, you know, like for example, Corey is much better than I am at like just like taking a break from the VO and just like letting the music breathe. *27:38* the bit or like dropping in a little a little like sound effect gag or something like that, you know, or or or so, you know, just just some funny something that happened while he was shooting B-roll. *27:49* Like uh I can't remember what video it was, but sometime *28:00* Sometime this year he did he did something where like he was like trying to put in a micro SD card and like the spring just like pew just flew out and he just he just left it in, you know? *28:03* Like it's so much *28:16* Better I am is just like finding those little moments. *28:17* Like what one of my favorites was um oh my gosh, what was I doing? *28:22* Um I think it was on the analog pocket video *28:27* Okay. *28:31* And I I can't remember what I was doing. *28:31* I think I was trying to fit something. *28:36* I think it had something to do with like the GameCube uh uh link cable. *28:40* Yeah, the adapter cable thing. *28:47* And I think I I I was using like a screwdriver to like do 'cause you gotta take out those prawns or whatever to get it to seat in the box. *28:49* at 10x scale on this on this screen. *29:02* Yeah, I think I think it was that or it was some other accessory. *29:06* There was some accessory that I was like struggling to like *29:09* pry open or open up or something and Cory was Cory was actually the one doing this section. *29:15* But like cause he was like doing the like all at the end of the analog pocket video he was like covering like *29:23* Like, let's just look at a bunch of different accessories and s see what works out and see what doesn't, or see what works, but maybe it's a little difficult to use in this situation. *29:28* And the one thing he didn't want to do was *29:38* I I think it was that GameCube link cable stuff. *29:42* Yeah. *29:46* That was the first thing I wanted to try with the pocket when I got it. *29:47* Yeah. *29:50* So he was like he was like, I'll do this section, but like you like open it up and let me know if there's any like issues. *29:51* uh, you know, with it. *29:59* And so I I'm shooting this b-roll of me, I don't know, trying to open up something. *30:00* And then like and I and like I just go out of my breath, I go, I go. *30:06* There we go or or something like that or there it goes. *30:10* And like he like actually kept like me just saying that like off camera. *30:14* Like just there it goes. *30:20* of the system isn't exactly designed to accommodate for the tabs on an official cable. *30:22* But if you take the screws out, then you can pry open the shell with a little force. *30:27* It was the funniest thing. *30:32* Like, I was just dying laughing. *30:33* And I I would have never thought to actually include that in there. *30:35* So, like, there's there's differences *30:40* You know, I'm I I'm I'm very like meticulous and precise in my editing style. *30:42* Like I I I almost to a detriment where I I just *30:51* like take too long on a lot of things where I'm just like going over a cut again and again and again and I'm like, eh, I should bump this over a frame or two. *30:54* You know, I I I overthink those things a little bit, but you know, ultimately *31:01* It all comes together in uh in in one way or the other. *31:06* I love it. *31:12* I it's so good. *31:12* I sent you I sent you what I tweeted out uh forever ago. *31:14* I see it. *31:17* It's so *31:18* I wish I wish the dock had the link cable port in it. *31:21* Like I feel like that was a total miss. *31:26* Yeah, the doc, you know, I actually updated the dock. *31:30* Um *31:33* A few weeks ago for the first time, like maybe a a year and a half or longer. *31:35* Like it be, I mean, I don't think there's been recent firmware for it, but I hadn't, because like I the the doc *31:41* Still to this day is a I the pocket itself is amazing, but the dock is it's it's not the seamless experience of docking a Nintendo Switch. *31:46* You know, it's there's it's it's the dock is okay, but it's definitely not my preferred way to play Game Boy games on a TV. *31:56* No, I you I I was saying before the show, you're a man after my own heart, and uh we're both uh kindred spirits, I should say, in this *32:07* Pursuit of playing Game Boy Games on the TV. *32:17* You know, you were drowned at Super Game Boy, I was drawn to the Game Boy Player on the GameCube *32:19* I've I've still remember getting it for my tenth birthday. *32:24* It was the only birthday I got everything I wanted because both my parents were out of town *32:27* They were on mission trips over my mom was in Holland, I think, and my dad was down in Ecuador. *32:32* So they were both out of town and we were staying with my great grandmother. *32:36* It was the only birthday I got everything I wanted and that included the Game Boy player. *32:40* It was so and I, you know, I still have it and it is *32:44* And th then again, thanks to you guys, I learn about GBI and the you know, the G C H D mods and stuff, and it's like, oh my gosh *32:48* It looks so much better now. *32:56* Yeah. *32:58* Oh, I I can't. *32:59* I really need to get around to testing GBI on *33:00* uh the retro tink 4k. *33:04* Oh my gosh. *33:06* Yeah. *33:08* I I tend to use the GBA consolizer just because it's it's just ease of use. *33:08* You just plug it in, you turn it on, use a Super Nintendo controller, not a lot of fuss to it. *33:13* You know, GBI, you know, it's incredible. *33:19* GameCube *33:21* stuff moves so fast. *33:23* Like it is homebrew. *33:25* It's wild lately. *33:27* Yes. *33:28* It's it's it's it's it's a very healthy development scene. *33:28* Uh, and I feel like if you like look away from it for like two seconds, then you're like totally lost *33:33* Yeah. *33:41* 'Cause it's like, oh my gosh, so many things have happened and I'm always like, oh no, like I need to show GBI in this video, but I don't have the most up-to-date one and it's been a while since I used it and I'm gonna probably have some setting wrong or something 'cause everything is *33:42* Like new and different. *33:56* It's great. *33:57* It's great. *33:58* But I have such a hard time keeping up with GameCube. *33:59* I haven't my biggest barrier with the GameCube for a while was um *34:02* It was so cumbersome to to update it for me because I had that um that Serial Port 2 to SD card adapter in the bottom, but that's obviously under the Game Boy player. *34:08* And I didn't have the one that like pokes out the side. *34:19* So I'd have to take the whole thing apart just to get the SD card out to update that. *34:22* But then I gotta use my action replay to like boot into Swiss because I didn't have any of the Yeah, see *34:26* But now it's like now you can just solder a a raspberry pie mini in there and it'll it'll boot up. *34:33* But yeah, yeah. *34:39* I I couldn't really figure out *34:40* a better way to do GameCube homebrew stuff because I I I'm still using the action replay and I hate I hate it. *34:41* It's doing this. *34:48* It's such a big barrier because it's like you gotta put this disc in and then you switch the disc out. *34:49* But I actually in the move, um *34:53* So part of my the new office setup or whatever is I finally off to uh I'll just turn the camera for you. *34:56* Over there is all the games. *35:03* And so really for the first time in my life. *35:04* I have every console hooked up, ready to go, you know, that the dream of I can play anything at any time. *35:07* It's all hooked up through the retro tink and it can it can do whatever it needs to do. *35:14* And so I tried to boot up my GameCube the other day. *35:18* And wasn't reading discs. *35:21* I was like, no, my time has come. *35:23* Oh no. *35:25* But it coincided with um the new revision of the the ODE of the the GC loader *35:26* Being reinstaled. *35:35* So I just went that route instead of and uh so now I just pop in and out an SD card in the disk tray from uh the laser bear. *35:37* So that's much better. *35:47* But *35:48* My entire collection now is essentially I mean I have another GameCube and my Wii, like I can still play on those systems, but *35:49* My other game keeps Japanese, so that would require the action re replay. *35:57* Or I'd play on the Wii, which doesn't have that digital video out. *36:02* So I'm in this weird spot where my *36:05* My GameCube collection isn't usable, right? *36:08* I guess I just have to buy another GameCube is really the the moral of the story here. *36:12* Yeah, I mean I've I've been lucky on GameCube. *36:16* Uh you know, I've got I've got f *36:18* I got three GameCubes and one of them has the GC loader in it, but I I that's kind of like the one that like I put away and like only bring it out like when I need it, but I've got like *36:22* I've got one GameCube hooked up, my original GameCube hooked up to my like CRT setup. *36:33* And then I've got another GameCube uh set up downstairs in the living room where I I try to keep the living room only HDMI stuff *36:38* So it can be retro as long as it either is an HDMI mod or it's got like my GameCube as a carby that lets me do HDMI output. *36:47* Um so I do have two GameCubes in in that that uh have optical drives and luckily, you know, I've the only problem I've ever had, and I I think this actually applies to both of the GameCube, so I don't think it's an issue with the system *36:56* Like I've got uh Mega Man X Command Mission. *37:09* Okay. *37:12* And for some reason it won't read on a GameCube, but it'll read on a Wii. *37:12* Oh, that is weird. *37:18* For whatever for whatever that's the only that's the only game I have that uh that has a weird issue. *37:19* But yeah, I've I've always I've had good luck with GameCube. *37:23* In fact I I played uh *37:26* I was uh streaming on the backloggery streams uh for the past three weeks. *37:27* I was streaming Lost Kingdoms on the on uh *37:32* on the w on the GameCube and you know, z zero problem. *37:35* So yeah, I've I've been I've been lucky on that front. *37:38* But you know, you're talking about, you know, setting up your ODE and stuff. *37:41* And that's like that's another area where like Corey is like so much more on the ball about that stuff 'cause like *37:44* It's been a learning experience. *37:49* I I hate setting up flashcards. *37:50* Like like I have only ever bought like *37:53* One flashcart? *37:58* Cause like all of mine are just like hand-me-downs from core *38:00* Like he gets a new version. *38:06* That's not a bad subject. *38:08* He gives me the the old one because he's like, well, you know, it's useful for the show. *38:10* Like you need to be able to record more more different games. *38:13* And like, but like *38:16* S see like sometimes he sent them to me with an S D card and it's already all set up and uh I use them all the time. *38:18* Yeah. *38:25* But then he'll send me one where he didn't give me an S D card and I'm just it'll just like sit there for years and *38:26* I'll never use. *38:32* I hate setting that stuff up. *38:33* I hate updating the firmware on it. *38:35* Like I I I drag my feet on updating that kind of stuff and like setting up that kind of stuff so bad. *38:38* And Corey, like that, just like *38:44* that that hits his like dopamine spot like s setting up like organizing files and yeah setting that stuff up and that that that kind of stuff is just like *38:46* I'll do it tomorrow. *38:59* I remember yeah, I was setting up I think my pocket and Mr. *39:02* at the same time. *39:07* Like I was just like, it I just need to put everything on this so it's it's done. *39:07* And uh that was an interesting like back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, trying to organize and then Yeah. *39:11* It seems like I've never like I've never gotten around to setting up my mister for *39:18* uh like having like a good storage system for like CD-based games. *39:23* Uh and it's I'm still you're just using the SD card, but I'm not *39:29* I'm not running a lot of PS2, but I did notice the turbo graphics was running was loading slow the other day. *39:33* The tur is that it was like really slow. *39:40* Like unbearably slow. *39:44* I was trying to load Rondo and it was just crawling. *39:46* So I wonder if that's strange. *39:50* I don't know. *39:55* Like I I've definitely played um *39:55* You know, I played uh Vallis 2 on the Mr. *39:58* On the PC Engine CD core. *40:03* I mean, th this was probably like two years ago. *40:05* Um *40:08* And uh I d I did get a freeze. *40:10* I did get a freeze. *40:12* Luckily, you know, that game saves. *40:13* So uh but but yeah, you know I don't know if that was like a uh data access. *40:15* Yeah, I couldn't I couldn't figure it out. *40:21* It was driving me a little nutty. *40:23* But I want to test like more PS1 stuff, but like I'm you know, I'll just like put like a couple of games on like my That's what I have. *40:25* You know, but like but that kind of limits like how how much I really use that core and how much I I do with it and uh you know I should come up with a better system. *40:34* You know, I I really want to do something I want to do a video on sometime. *40:43* um and again I'm just I I'm dragging my feet on like figuring out like okay what what I I need to get a get a hard drive that would be good to to do this with like I I figured out this way *40:47* to con I mean you can convert, you know, you can do the um like the compressed CD uh for C HD files for um *41:00* uh for like games on Mr. *41:13* Like you can compress the C D into like a C H D file. *41:15* And I figured out you can do the same thing if you if you rip a music C D in a certain way, you can also convert them to C H D so they take up a *41:18* a lot less space. *41:27* Interesting. *41:29* Uh and I even figured out a way to take like *41:29* uh WAV files or other audio files and build a CD that is actually longer than a CD would actually be. *41:35* And and uh export that is like this compressed disc format, and of course not burr it to a disc. *41:47* It wouldn't work on a real disc, but *41:53* You can load it up on say like the Sega C D Mr. *41:55* Core or the PS1 Mr. *41:59* Core, the PC Engine CD Mr. *42:00* Core, and it will read it. *42:02* Even though it's longer than a real CD could ever be, it actually works. *42:04* And something about that like is so cool to me. *42:08* And like I love the idea of like *42:12* I can use my CD collection without like actually having to put wear and tear on you know an old CD drive, even though I'm not using the disc. *42:15* Like *42:26* It I know this is like so many more steps and so much more cumbersome than like any logical person would ever do when they could just stream their music. *42:26* or just like have like play exactly the songs they want or or have everything in the cloud or have everything like on their phone or whatever. *42:36* But like *42:43* I love the idea of using my CDs even though I'm not using my CDs or or building like custom CDs that that *42:44* Can run in like a Sega C D core. *42:52* Like that's that is really cool to me. *42:54* And I don't know if I might be the only person in the universe that thinks that's *42:56* cool, but like I'm like I legit want this to be like my new way to play music and I just need to get around to like ripping all my discs and storing them in this format because I just I don't know. *43:00* I think that's I just I I just think that's that's really cool. *43:10* And you know it's *43:13* That's what I always like to say when people are like uh people are like like people laugh like I don't I don't get like all this all these emulators are already on PC and I can also do GameCube and PS2 and PSP and all this stuff like *43:15* Like, and you're you're like getting all excited that like, you know, some old arcade games are finally coming to Mr. *43:29* And I'm like, look, like *43:35* You think about how the Mr. *43:39* Works, yes, it's emulation. *43:41* Yes, it's only as good as, you know, the the person who who created that emulator. *43:42* Like it's not a magic bullet to just gain exact *43:48* uh perfection, but it operates in a different way. *43:52* You've got this whole thing of like, you know, the the processes are happening in parallel. *43:55* uh versus you know how they have to be you know sequential in a software emulator. *44:00* I mean the software emulator can be written uh to preserve the functionality of the hardware really accurately, but the actual way it performs is *44:05* dependent on a lot of other factors and then you have this operating environment that is like just doing that thing that you're telling it to do. *44:15* And does does does the idea of how that work like tickle something in your brain and like make you like enjoy it just that much more? *44:24* Or does it not? *44:32* And it it's okay if it doesn't. *44:33* Like everyone has their interests, you know. *44:35* I mean, you know, uh, you know, w my my friend who who, you know, is the owner of the back laundry, you know, we stream together every Monday night. *44:37* I'm like original hardware using my real carts, real discs, and he's like full-on emulation. *44:46* He loves organizing his emulator setup, loves customizing it and stuff. *44:53* And like he's like he's a programmer. *44:58* Like that kind of stuff is interesting to him. *44:59* Like customizing it, really making it his own. *45:02* And like for me, like I just think the hardware side is just it it *45:05* And the interface of the mist, or like it just it appeals to me more, and like either that tickles something in your brain and makes you enjoy it more or it doesn't. *45:09* And *45:16* At the end of the day, it's you know, no one needs to be saying like, oh, this way is better, oh that way is better, why don't you just do this? *45:17* You should just do this. *45:24* This way is better, it's cheaper, it's free. *45:25* At the end of the day, the more people developing emulators and methods for playing games, the better it is for everyone. *45:28* The more eyes that are on like how do you emulate a PC engine? *45:37* How do you emulate a Sega Jessis? *45:41* How do you emulate a PS1? *45:43* Uh you know, developers on both sides of software and hardware emulation have *45:45* Come up with things that have fixed things in the other type of emulation, you know? *45:51* And so that it benefits everyone. *45:57* Uh just for there to be more people interested in creating this stuff and more in people interested in playing this stuff, what whatever reaches people and whatever puts more information, more accurate information and more documented information. *46:00* out about these consoles, it's it's a win for everyone whether that is your chosen method of play or not. *46:14* Yeah, I my draw m to things like the Mr. *46:20* or an analog console or, you know, anything like that is something in my brain goes off when it hardware emulation. *46:25* Like to me that I want that accuracy, but I can't necessarily *46:33* Get that in software every time. *46:39* And so the thing that tricks in my brain is hardware emulation is still emulation. *46:41* But on the other side *46:45* Software emulation lets you do things that you never could do on real hardware. *46:49* Like one thing I tried was a few years ago I got one of those uh PS3 3D TVs. *46:53* So I suddenly have access to three D, right? *46:59* Well of course the first thing I try is not my PS3 and and a three D game. *47:02* It's I run *47:06* you know, I hook up my computer to it and run the Dolphin emulator and put Metroid Prime in 3D because originally they were like, what if we could do three D on the GameCube? *47:08* And, you know, the concept was Metroid Prime could maybe have been in 3D and Dolphin allows you to spit it out that way. *47:17* You know, so it's just they both have pros and cons, and it's just how do you want to play the game? *47:26* Really the important thing is are you actually going to play the game? *47:32* Yes. *47:36* Yes. *47:36* Don't just sit there with everything and *47:37* I can play this. *47:40* Well actually play it would probably be better, I think. *47:42* Um and just play it in the way that's the best, what you prefer, easiest to access, because you know *47:46* Mr. *47:53* Prices these days aren't cheap either. *47:53* No, no, no. *47:55* Especially it it it it's crazy. *47:56* It it really comes down to uh *47:59* You know, s some people might get a lot of satisfaction from like, you know, mods and stuff like that on like PC games. *48:03* And I remember, you know, when Skyrim came out, like I spent an entire day just trying to like make the graphics just that much better. *48:11* I was really annoyed by how the shadows looked and stuff. *48:19* And I was like really annoyed by myself by the end of the day. *48:23* I'm like, I I wasted an entire Saturday that I could have spent playing Skyrim and I wasn't I was playing Skyrim but I wasn't playing Skyrim *48:27* Scott. *48:36* You know, this is back when it came out. *48:37* And that I like playing games on consoles because *48:39* Like I I like to get the best experience that I can with that console, but there's also kind of this limitation to it that just is like, well. *48:45* I made this as good as I can get it, you know, with the relatively limited controls available to me to do so. *48:55* You just accept it and you play the dang game, right? *49:02* You know? *49:07* Uh and you know a lot of people are like, oh, well, you're like messing with all this stuff on scalars and stuff, but it's just like that that stuff is really relevant to my interests and also *49:08* I I feel like there's there's only so much you can take that as well. *49:19* Like when it comes to game a PC game or even just changing the the normal settings of a PC game, like you could just go on *49:24* Yeah, you're not you're not waiting you're not waiting for pre-compilation shaders to load in on your your retro tink while also maybe loading in mod packs and *49:33* putting Thomas the tank engine in Skyrim. *49:42* You know, it's just you're just tweaking. *49:44* Which is which is cool. *49:46* That's just not where my my area of of interest is. *49:47* Uh same place *49:52* Before I I do want to talk more about the Mr. *49:56* and FPGA stuff, but I want to go back to my life in gaming really quick. *49:58* Yeah, yeah. *50:02* And *50:03* I'm kinda I'm I'm curious about this your research process because there's a your videos are clear. *50:04* concise when they need to be. *50:15* Um they really break down uh some complicated, you know, things, especially those early years with like C Sync and Sync on Luma and all this. *50:17* You really break down complicated information. *50:26* in a way for a bunch for anyone really to watch and understand if they're willing to to watch and put in the time. *50:29* But you have to learn that stuff first. *50:36* And now we're getting the world is so much larger, right? *50:38* Now it's *50:41* HD mods for systems that are are doing their own scaling or scan lines now. *50:42* Slot masks are I feel like have gotten really big in the last year. *50:49* Oh yes. *50:52* And, you know, what is that process like to you? *50:53* Are you just going to Retro RGB, asking Bob, saying, Bob, tell me how this works? *50:56* Well, I d you know, I do ask Bob uh some of the things. *51:02* Um, I mean, you know, I I always like to say that I I'm dumbing it down to my level. *51:07* Uh when *51:13* When I set out to make a video, it's not because it's like, ah yes, I know everything about this. *51:16* It's like I want to learn more about this. *51:23* And making a video is the best way for me to learn this. *51:27* So that reminds me of your Game Boy IPS uh video. *51:33* I feel like that's exactly what you're talking about. *51:38* Yeah, that that that video is is definitely a very clear example of that. *51:41* Boy, I hated that making that video. *51:47* But it ended up being LGC2 video be any better? *51:50* Uh well you know. *51:56* That seemed very frustrating. *51:57* I am so glad I did that video because I wouldn't have put it through put the C2 through all the tests. *51:59* that I did uh to make me come to the conclusion that wait a second, while I can still exchange this for an LGC1 *52:06* I should do it. *52:14* If I had if I wasn't making the video, I would probably have not discovered the issues that I discovered. *52:15* It's it the timing on that video was so crazy because I had just maybe at the most a month earlier had just bought a C1 because *52:23* My C9 had some dead pixels and was under warranty. *52:34* And bestwide was like, we'll just give you a $2,500 credit and you can keep the C9. *52:37* Wow. *52:44* I I don't I don't know how I got so the C9's inside and it just watches TV because it really I'm telling you three, maybe four dead pixels. *52:45* Nothing crazy. *52:54* So I got a C one and then you put out a video and was like, ah man, I missed the C two. *52:55* And then your conclusion was buy a C one and I was like, Yes. *52:59* Yeah. *53:02* Yeah, yeah. *53:02* Well, you know, the uh like I want to say like less than a week after *53:03* we released that video was uh Limited Run Games opened their retail store. *53:08* Oh and you know, I I I live like two hours from there and we're like, oh we should we should go to the store opening event. *53:14* And Corey and I had actually just gotten new cameras. *53:23* And we were like, you know, this would actually be like a good environment to just like do some just casually test. *53:26* Uh, you know, our our new cameras like not do anything that really matters a whole lot, but just like it's just a it's just a good place to do like a test run of our new camera. *53:35* Sure. *53:43* And so we offered, you know, 'cause we we know the people at Limited Run. *53:43* Um we're just like, hey, we'll we'll shoot some some B-roll for ya *53:46* And so we were going around shooting B-roll, which was which was nice because it lets go in and out of the store freely, you know, because there was a a massive line, like *53:50* you know, 'cause they were only laying so many people in at a time. *53:59* Uh so, you know, I kinda had perks of, you know, well, we kinda go inside the sh the store to shoot B roll. *54:03* But anyways, we were like going down that line and shooting B roll. *54:09* Like, no kidding, that day *54:12* Less than a week after that OLED video came out, there were probably like at least 10 people who said I bought a C1. *54:14* last week because of your video. *54:23* You shouldn't even get a commission, man. *54:27* I couldn't believe it. *54:30* Like less than a week later, that many people *54:31* In that just in that one location told me that they made a a major television purchasing decision on something that I had done less than a week ago. *54:34* Like that was that was a really surreal experience. *54:43* That's uh that's so cool. *54:47* It's but back to the research part of it, because it d I like what you were saying about *54:48* You're interested in something, you want to learn more about it. *54:56* So the way to do that is to go out and make this video. *54:59* Right. *55:02* I *55:03* It's like you're teaching yourself and then passing it on. *55:05* And I really respect I that I I majored in journalism. *55:09* As listeners uh may know if they've listened to anything else. *55:13* So like that to me that's just journalism. *55:16* What you're doing, that's what you're do so that speaks to me in a way. *55:18* I guess it kind of is. *55:22* And and maybe that that comes from, you know, I I worked at *55:23* Uh before uh well when I started my life in gaming, I was actually I'd been working for many years at uh the college uh *55:27* the the TV station um at the college that I graduated from. *55:36* And at one point uh my boss became um they they brought in a new uh director of *55:41* uh marketing and communications and he happened to be um you know a he had been a t T V reporter for you know many, many years. *55:48* And uh, you know, he was looking to get out of TV news and you know, do something different. *55:58* And uh, you know, so I learned a lot. *56:05* watching him, you know, just because he had this very like, you know, old school news way about him and, you know, he *56:09* He he really liked going around with me and like shooting, you know, news stories for the school because, you know, that was that was, you know, getting to scratch, you know, his itch of what he missed from uh from his job. *56:17* And I learned a lot *56:29* uh just from watching him do his presentation segments, you know, uh a lot of people will will sometimes criticize me of like when I *56:31* presenting video like, oh, you sound like a newscaster or something. *56:41* And I you know, frankly, like I I some of my technique was abs absorbed by watching him. *56:45* And he was actually the guy that did the voice on the how to beat. *56:53* uh videos because I I wanted someone who like could do a professional sounding voiceover but was also like *56:56* completely, you know, someone older and completely clueless about what I'm talking about. *57:04* And of course, like some of the cluelessness was written into the *57:10* script on those but yeah I I I got him to to record those those voices. *57:12* That's so cool. *57:16* So that was that was fun. *57:18* So yeah I I I learned a lot uh uh just uh through *57:19* you know, shooting those news stories and um uh just observing how how he wrote things and uh pr uh presented on camera. *57:24* And of course I never *57:35* I he knew I did a YouTube channel, of course, because he knew about like the how to beat scripts that he was recording, but I never I never let on that like I can write *57:38* I can kind of present on camera. *57:48* I didn't want him to know about any of that because everyone else in the marketing and communications department, like, he he roped into like, oh, you have to make a story for this month's *57:50* uh show and you know after presenting on camera oh they ha they they hated like they did not like presenting on camera. *58:01* They really didn't like doing those stories. *58:07* They just wanted to do print stories. *58:09* But oh he roped everyone to the video stuff and I'm like *58:12* I'm like he doesn't think I'm I I can write um uh let's keep it that way. *58:15* Yeah, let's keep he just writes about duck tails *58:19* I just I just yeah, I I just I I wanna I just wanna rhyme out about what I'm interested in and I I don't know if I can feign interest in some of these subjects. *58:23* That was that was my biggest hurdle at journalism school because I wanted I just wanted the degree so I could go right about video games, you know, at a place like IGN or something *58:33* But to graduate, you had to write all these news stories for the school. *58:40* And uh I've struggled with that a lot. *58:44* Um I did get them to accept some video game writing that I did *58:47* for outlets like freelance and stuff. *58:52* Um but I had a a cool professor who was understanding. *58:54* I I I mean, you know, I I did the same thing. *58:57* Like I I always uh *59:00* you know, al always in school, always wrote about things that like were very specific to my interests. *59:02* I mean, this is uh honestly like this is not how I should have done things, but like, you know, for like essays for English class or something. *59:07* something like I would I would I would write about like video games or something like that because I write about a subject I already know about. *59:13* About and then I find sources to support what I already wrote. *59:22* Because you have to you know have a bibliography and *59:27* But now now today though like I'm genuinely learning things in my my research and testing processes. *59:31* So you know because I've gone beyond what I what I already know, you know. *59:38* I've I've in high school I had to give a a speech and this is like ninth grade and I'm terrified of public speaking at this point and now it's ironic because I could talk to a crowd of *59:44* I don't know how many people and be totally fine. *59:54* Uh, but I was mortified of public speaking and so I wrote a speech about stuff that I could you know it was in debate class, so it kinda had to be like *59:56* the political in some way. *01:00:05* So I chose like what is a patriot, but I wrote about boss from Metal Gear Soft. *01:00:07* War the Patriots. *01:00:18* Yeah, but I was like, she had you know, I'm talking about how she, you know, her whole plot and what she did for her country. *01:00:20* I also wrote about Jack Bauer from twenty four because I was really into that show in ninth grade. *01:00:30* It was good. *01:00:35* English research project on Homestar Runner. *01:00:41* That's which was I mean Homestar was a massive influence for me. *01:00:45* Like just in general of like *01:00:51* Like I wanted to do what I'm doing now before there was a model for that. *01:00:54* And they kind of before YouTube, they you know, here's these two brothers. *01:01:01* They're just like they're making the videos that they want to make, you know, putting that out there. *01:01:06* And they're *01:01:13* They're making a living doing it. *01:01:14* You know, they didn't do any advertising. *01:01:16* They only did merchandising. *01:01:18* But but yeah, like that really inspired me because I was like, man, I don't *01:01:20* Like, you know, I I like doing video stuff, but I don't want to live in California. *01:01:25* I don't want to live in New York City. *01:01:29* Like That was my thing. *01:01:31* I couldn't afford it. *01:01:33* I I just wanna wanna live where I'm used to. *01:01:36* I don't you know, I and and like like going into video games, like at the time, like American video games, like it especially on console *01:01:38* were only like kind of just starting to come into their own. *01:01:49* Like I feel like at that time like Japanese games were still like. *01:01:53* leagues and leagues and leagues ahead of Western developed games. *01:01:58* I mean on PC it was kind of a different matter, uh especially people who grew up playing on PC like *01:02:02* There's a lot of like classic stuff that like me is not being so much of a PC game where it's like not really my style of game, but there was a lot of really well-done stuff on PC from Western developers, but especially on console, I feel like the not all *01:02:07* Especially from Europe, I feel like Europe had a lot of really good developers even on console, like back in the early 2000s, uh when I was in college. *01:02:21* But uh but I was just like, man, like if I go into video games, I'm probably gonna be making games I don't like. *01:02:30* Which again, that's like totally different now *01:02:35* Like I feel like especially like like early PS3 360 era like Western developers came into their own much more than they had *01:02:38* before but I was just like uh like so I was like uh you know but then the idea of you know what Homestar Runner was doing where it was like this was making video at home. *01:02:47* I mean they did eventually get an office but like *01:02:59* you know it was like just this independently produced video put out on the web for people to consume and somehow you make money you know um somehow and somehow somehow it just happens and um *01:03:01* Yeah, that was like a huge inspiration for me. *01:03:14* Like I I really wanted to like I took some 3D animation classes in college and I was thinking like, oh like I'm gonna make my own like Homestar like universe. *01:03:16* And I'm going to uh, you know, have like these characters and stuff and uh, you know. *01:03:27* You know, I I I I I I I I didn't like Flash, so I I I was like I'm gonna do this with like 3D animation like I don't know put it on YouTube or somewhere because YouTube would only just start *01:03:35* Yeah. *01:03:47* You know, I I I didn't know what I was gonna do with this, but this was what I wanted to do. *01:03:48* Like I wanted to put something out there on the internet that people would watch and somehow I make money. *01:03:51* And I could never get motivated enough to do it on my own. *01:03:58* Um, and that was why, you know, I I I took on the staff job at the college TV station. *01:04:02* uh right after graduating, you know, I stayed there for uh like ten or eleven years. *01:04:09* Uh because like I just I couldn't I couldn't envision like what is out there for me that that I would want to do. *01:04:18* Uh, you know, like what like like or or or the that I would want to do but also wouldn't make me live somewhere I don't want to live, right? *01:04:28* Like so, so you know *01:04:36* YouTube kind of became I guess the solution to that in in a way. *01:04:40* So uh *01:04:46* You know, I I I kind of wish I got onto it a little sooner, but I just, you know, I I wasn't able to motivate myself on my own. *01:04:48* Like *01:04:56* you know you kinda have to have another person like I think holding you accountable uh you know to it it helps it helps uh to get those those projects done so and ultimately I'm glad I'm doing you know what I would consider like non-fiction *01:04:57* work, even though it is about works of fiction, it is about video games that are fiction, but it is about things that exist in the world. *01:05:10* Like it is about an item, it is about an object, it's about a game, it's me and my reaction to *01:05:17* this game or this hardware or what I take away from it. *01:05:24* And I I was I I I kinda kinda take that to be like how *01:05:27* I was always I always like tried to be like artistic and stuff, like, but I was never that good at painting. *01:05:33* My drawing skills like definitely deteriorated over the years. *01:05:41* I was always better at photography, right? *01:05:46* I've always been better at like looking at something that exists and then doing something creative with that. *01:05:48* You know, so photography and videography and then you know ultimately like you know *01:05:56* looking at video games or looking at video game hardware, looking just just you know, using it's it's it's *01:06:05* creative in a way, but it's you know, I don't know. *01:06:14* I it's just I I'm glad that I fell into that rather than the original thing of what I wanted to do was like *01:06:17* follow this like Homestar Runner type thing. *01:06:24* Because I, you know, I'm not I'm not clever enough. *01:06:26* I'm not witty enough to like come up with *01:06:29* the kinds of stuff that they did. *01:06:32* I'm not not so much creative in that way. *01:06:34* Um, you know, so that would have been a mistake. *01:06:38* I'm glad I ended up going in this direction. *01:06:41* It just took me more years to see it. *01:06:44* I I really, really relate to what you're saying because *01:06:48* I just for the longest time it was I want to go out and write at IGN. *01:06:53* I want to write at these big video game websites and I just want to do news and podcasts and things like that. *01:06:58* And *01:07:04* You know, I started podcasting back around the time Brawl was coming out, so that 2007-2008 time period, and I was inspired by Show Me Your News. *01:07:05* And basically I was like, oh, I'm just gonna do that. *01:07:15* And so I I made my own Smash Brothers thing, which is, you know, rift off uh Peter, who's a host of that show, pretty heavily. *01:07:18* And now Peter and I are actually friends and it's great. *01:07:26* And I mean *01:07:28* That's how everyone gets started. *01:07:29* You're like, I I like what they do. *01:07:31* I want to I'm just gonna make that. *01:07:32* But then eventually you develop your own style and you come into your own. *01:07:34* And but then that turned into, well, you know, I can't move out to California. *01:07:39* It cost a bajillion dollars just to live out there in in college. *01:07:43* I had I had met my who would um *01:07:47* my would-be wife at the time we got married at the end of college, but I had met her and it was it was pretty clear that was what was gonna happen between us and I was like I c it's not just me anymore. *01:07:50* I can't I can't just move, you know, make a a decision like this by myself anymore. *01:07:59* Yeah. *01:08:04* And I kind of just was like, well, what do I how do I do this? *01:08:05* And it took me, you know, a lot of freelance work. *01:08:09* I used to write guides and stuff. *01:08:11* actually for IGN. *01:08:13* So I did get to IGN in one way or another, just not quite the way I expected. *01:08:14* And and then it took you know, then I've I had this kind of like burnout *01:08:19* phase of like I just this isn't what I want to do and it took it took coming out of that to realize I can just do this myself, which is what I'm doing with you right now. *01:08:24* I I'll just host my own thing. *01:08:33* I'll do my own thing on the internet. *01:08:35* I have my own website. *01:08:37* I do my own YouTube thing now. *01:08:38* And and it's I find so much more creative and emotional satisfaction. *01:08:39* out of controlling what I want to talk about, not being beholden to well this is what's trending on Google right now. *01:08:46* We really gotta write about like I helped I I gotta help with like the Red Dead Redemption 2 guide, right? *01:08:54* Mm-hmm. *01:09:01* So my job in that game, while I did get to play the story actually fairly at my own pace, which was pretty good, my job and what I remember most about that game besides the story was *01:09:01* Hunting all of the legendary animals. *01:09:13* So like my time with Red Dead is defined by here's how you get the legendary cougar, here's how you find the legendary moose. *01:09:15* And so my brain just *01:09:21* You don't that's how that game is filtered in my mind, hunting wild legendary animals. *01:09:23* And now if I want to write about something or r talk to someone *01:09:29* I just do it or I, you know, I ask to do it. *01:09:36* And it's so liberating, I think, just to *01:09:39* But now I but now I'm uh I am by myself and so I don't I need to find people to motivate me to do other things because I c there are ideas I want to do, but *01:09:44* I just haven't like taken that step forward necessarily. *01:09:54* It can definitely be tough. *01:10:00* Well, I think *01:10:02* This kind of they kind of go together here. *01:10:04* I might just lump this together because my life in gaming doesn't just do, you know, breakdowns of hardware or controllers and all this stuff, but you you also have documentaries. *01:10:06* And one of my all-time favorite videos on your channel is your Tom Um Du Bois. *01:10:17* It's not Du Bois, it's Du Bois. *01:10:24* Um, your Tom Du Bois video, The Man Who Drew Konami. *01:10:26* And I remember when it came out, I was like, this is so cool. *01:10:29* Like, I never it *01:10:34* Your brain processes are like, yeah, someone drew this, right? *01:10:38* Like someone drew this Castlevania art or this teenage mutant turtles art. *01:10:41* But it never occurred to me that *01:10:45* It was actually s you know, like there's a story behind this person. *01:10:47* Yeah. *01:10:50* And so I guess to focus on Tom just for a bit. *01:10:51* Like how did you find how did you realize that someone drew this and let's talk to them? *01:10:56* Like, because I think his story is wonderful. *01:11:02* I share it with everyone. *01:11:04* I'm like, you gotta watch this video. *01:11:05* It uh it came to us. *01:11:07* Um We were going to I think uh I think this was the trip when we went to San Francisco. *01:11:09* So we we did a documentary on M2 in Japan. *01:11:19* Yes. *01:11:24* Um, and we wanted to have the guys *01:11:25* uh a digital eclipse be part of that. *01:11:30* Uh so we have a little bit of uh Frank Seffaldi and Mike Micah. *01:11:33* Uh Frank was still with Digital Eclipse at the time. *01:11:38* um and so we we visited them uh shot a bunch of stuff there and uh we also we we did a few other things while we were out there like we interviewed uh *01:11:42* Uh Brian from Retro USB who did the AVS. *01:11:54* We interviewed him for Analog Frontier. *01:11:58* So, you know, we were like, okay, there's like a number of things we want to do in San Francisco. *01:11:59* And um *01:12:03* Someone had reached out to us, Matt Fowler, who is also in the Tom Du Bois documentary. *01:12:06* Yes. *01:12:11* Um, he uh *01:12:12* I I don't really know the whole story, but I I think he like kind of discovered Tom. *01:12:14* I think like among like maybe like *01:12:20* art collecting communities and stuff. *01:12:23* I think Tom was kind of known, but like he his story hadn't really come out and he ha he himself *01:12:25* I don't think was fully aware of the impact uh that and uh that that his art had had and how it had endured, you know *01:12:35* On virtue of being great art unto itself, but also just because it's attached to some of the greatest video games of all time, right? *01:12:47* Like that alone makes his art *01:12:55* Timeless, and that was kind of how I started off that documentary, because I'm like, when people go to hunt for some of these games that they really want to own, like their art. *01:12:59* is what is in their head. *01:13:09* They're like they're looking for it. *01:13:10* They've seen online what this game looks like and they're looking for it. *01:13:11* And so that that is this association with these incredible games. *01:13:15* Um but anyway, yeah, so Matt Fowler, like he wanted to do some projects with Tom and uh you know *01:13:21* He was also really into, you know, the the retro hardware and RGB video and stuff, so he was aware of our channel. *01:13:31* And he reached out to us saying, like, hey, like, I can I can get you access to this guy. *01:13:38* And um so you know, I was I was very much unsure *01:13:46* Uh I Corey was the one who coordinated with Matt and everything, and I was I was really unsure if this was really gonna be like all *01:13:54* that interesting or anything. *01:14:02* I I just I didn't know. *01:14:04* And so we went out there uh the day before we shot and you know *01:14:06* Met up with him and you know went out to dinner and you know just you know had a had a good conversation and um *01:14:13* You know, Corey was like, you know, I I i i i if it felt like you had a really easy time talking to him. *01:14:22* So like I think you should take the lead on. *01:14:28* on this. *01:14:31* So cause we we just we just went in like really not knowing what to expect. *01:14:32* Like is this gonna be much of anything or not? *01:14:35* So so we *01:14:38* I I I don't think I I explained this part of the story, but yeah, this was kind of like on the way home from San Francisco. *01:14:39* It's like, well, we'll make a stop in Chicago and see if this is any. *01:14:45* Yeah. *01:14:50* So yeah, it was it was very unknown. *01:14:50* And so we got there uh the next day to shoot. *01:14:53* Um we shot *01:14:58* a ton of B-roll just like on his dining room table. *01:15:00* He pulled out all of all of this work and we just kind of tried to get an understanding of like *01:15:04* you know, what his career was and what some of the stories were, and um, you know, and then at the end of the day, we uh *01:15:11* Uh we shot his shot his interview, and uh you know, it it it it turned out to be so much more than than I ever could have expected. *01:15:22* Uh, you know, I think he had a I think he had an interesting story and it also was so obvious like how much it meant to him to realize like, you know, here's something that I'm remembered for. *01:15:33* Like he he thought all this Konami stuff was just another just another job, just another marketing gig. *01:15:46* And that would, you know, it would be forgotten as much as, you know *01:15:53* uh you know, a painting he did for, you know, some some jelly, yeah, you know, or or hamburgers or whatever. *01:15:57* You know, there was a lot of that kind of stuff. *01:16:05* Um *01:16:07* Uh, but he did a lot of really amazing stuff. *01:16:08* And so uh yeah, it was just it was *01:16:13* It turned out to be a really good story, and you know, I I was really motivated to get that together really quickly. *01:16:18* And uh the response to that video is is *01:16:25* Is possibly the most overwhelmingly positive to any video we've ever released. *01:16:29* But the catch is, c comments were just just so many comments, so many comments, so many positive comments. *01:16:35* Relatively fewer views. *01:16:43* Right. *01:16:45* Um uh documentary stuff on YouTube is uh seems to be a bit of a hard sell. *01:16:46* Which is so disappointing. *01:16:54* It is. *01:16:56* It really is. *01:16:57* It's so there's so much potential, right? *01:16:58* Yes this the biggest video platform *01:17:02* On the internet, for sure. *01:17:07* You know, and it's you could really tell you can really tell really amazing stories on there. *01:17:09* And you know, I think that's why stuff like Atari 50 is so successful. *01:17:14* Because it it tells the story of the games within the game. *01:17:20* It is it is it is the documentary *01:17:29* playing on a game console, an interactive documentary. *01:17:33* And I think when people are sitting down in that context, they're more open to documentary con *01:17:37* content? *01:17:44* Uh YouTube, I don't I don't know what it is. *01:17:45* I mean, it's not like the length of it is a deterrent because people love our long hardware videos. *01:17:48* Yeah, and but hit the time video is only twenty-two minutes or something? *01:17:53* Yeah, it's relatively short. *01:17:58* But yeah, it's something something about documentaries. *01:17:59* They *01:18:02* don't hit as hard on the views, but they hit really hard on the warm fuzzies. *01:18:03* Like people just respond really passionately and positively *01:18:09* to them. *01:18:15* So it's it's worth it. *01:18:16* It feels good. *01:18:17* It's worth it. *01:18:18* But it's just a shame that all the different *01:18:19* levels of worth it don't apply to documentaries as as much. *01:18:23* But it's interesting and you know, Tom has *01:18:30* Since that point, you know, I I I honestly can't say to what extent, you know, we played any role in kind of bringing him back into video games, but I mean he has been commissioned to do quite a few *01:18:33* uh pieces of new art for new games or collections. *01:18:47* You know, he's done all alternative art for like *01:18:52* the the Contra Anniversary Collection and Castlevania Anniversary. *01:18:55* So he got back with Konami in a way. *01:18:59* He's done stuff with Konami. *01:19:01* He's done stuff with um *01:19:02* You know, like he did a a cover for Panzer Paladin, which was an indie game with uh the people that uh went on to do um *01:19:04* Shredder's Revenge, uh, you know, that he does he did a an alternative cover for Panzer Paladin. *01:19:14* Um, so yeah, like he's got he's getting video game work again. *01:19:20* So it's it's it's it's really interesting to see how uh you know we we got him when he was just *01:19:25* Beginning to realize like there's this whole community of people that really care about his work and you know who *01:19:36* were saying things like, you know, American box art was always worse. *01:19:45* Except, except for yours. *01:19:51* Like, I, you know, people were like, I was drawing. *01:19:54* I was like trying to copy your art in like my, you know, you know, high school or middle school notebooks and stuff, like, or like *01:19:58* when I saw your art, like that's what made me want to be an artist. *01:20:07* Like it's it was just so cool seeing that uh that reaction to that video. *01:20:10* Yeah, I've it like I said, it's my favorite. *01:20:15* I'm I'm getting ready to play *01:20:18* almost all of the Castlevania games for my other show, Chapter Select. *01:20:22* And um my co-host on that show, Logan, I was like, we're talking about this video. *01:20:26* Like we're talking about Tom. *01:20:31* uh when we do that, you know, as we go through these games. *01:20:33* Cause it's so I was just at a shop today and I was perusing the Genesis section. *01:20:36* I was like, is bloodlines here today? *01:20:41* You know? *01:20:43* Because it's in, you know, it's always *01:20:44* In your brain. *01:20:46* It's I love it so much. *01:20:47* You guys have another documentary series, Analog Frontiers, you mentioned it. *01:20:50* Yeah. *01:20:54* Part four has been a long time coming. *01:20:56* Yes, it has. *01:20:58* I and uh I just you know, you've kind of talked here and there about motivation throughout this and *01:21:00* tackling something like this and laser focus and I'm just how do you feel about it? *01:21:08* You know? *01:21:15* I say finish the video when you finish it. *01:21:16* You know, I want you to *01:21:20* feel good about it. *01:21:22* I want you to put out what you want to put out. *01:21:23* But I'm just where are you at with it? *01:21:24* Because it's creating stuff is hard. *01:21:27* Yeah, yeah. *01:21:29* Well and you know like *01:21:30* Work outside of MLIG also picked up like a lot over the past year. *01:21:32* And I've finally like just just now as we're recording this, like just now gotten back to a place where like I can put *01:21:36* like basically almost a hundred percent of my focus back into it. *01:21:44* Okay. *01:21:48* Um uh so so that's part of the reason it has you know I I've got a really bad habit, I have to admit, of like *01:21:48* The longer something is a problem, the more I am afraid of tackling that problem. *01:21:57* And it and then you feel worse about it and worse about it and worse about it. *01:22:05* But that's not enough. *01:22:08* Like *01:22:10* You know, and I just I we have been just you know in me and Corey's conversations just over the past several years. *01:22:11* You know, the pandemic years. *01:22:20* Uh, you know, has always been like, well, after Anlog Frontiers, we can do this, we can do that, we'll do this, we'll do that. *01:22:22* And it's just like it's we're we say it all the time after analog frontiers or when analog frontiers is done. *01:22:29* And it's like, we gotta get this done. *01:22:36* It's holding us back from so many things we want to do. *01:22:38* Uh *01:22:41* And, you know, I the the enormity of the project, you know, just is intimidating. *01:22:42* And *01:22:50* It took, you know, from when we first shot those interviews, it took a while to actually start building those scripts and figuring out, okay, what's the story here? *01:22:51* What story do we want to tell with this? *01:23:01* And uh, you know, parts, you know, one and two, you know, actually started coming together pretty quickly. *01:23:04* Part three took a little longer. *01:23:11* Part four and five, I think one of the main flaws was *01:23:13* We had themes that we wanted to explore across the two, and I always knew like neither of these are gonna hit *01:23:19* And be as interesting to pe as interesting to people as what was in the first three parts. *01:23:28* And *01:23:35* You know, eventually th actually just this year, Corey said, you know, it of course, you know, it was it was delayed because of, you know, working on freelance projects, w working on other videos that came up that seemed like priorities. *01:23:36* And also just being on the back burger because it's like, ah, I'm so afraid of this. *01:23:47* It's it's so daunting. *01:23:51* Um and it sh it should not have gotten that way, but it's just it's how it happened. *01:23:53* But Corey was like, why don't you just make one part four *01:23:57* and just do things that you wanted to do in both of those in the a singular final part four. *01:24:01* And I was like, you know, that makes at first I kind of like pushed back. *01:24:09* But then I was like, wait, no, this makes sense. *01:24:13* Because now I can see how the themes of parts four and five presented together. *01:24:17* Is actually of just as much interest as the themes of parts one, two, and three. *01:24:26* Whereas separate, they seemed a lot weaker *01:24:31* Together they're much stronger. *01:24:33* And really, we had the same realization when we were making part three. *01:24:36* Because, you know, Evan Amos, who is the photographer who every single Wikipedia game console entry, uh *01:24:42* Uh or at least every single one that's a good picture which is almost every single one is his photo. *01:24:54* Uh he's made this his life's work to *01:25:01* document and continue to keep updated and uh you know as much if visual information as possible about these consoles, what they are on the outside and the inside and from every angle. *01:25:03* Um, we when we went to New York City to shoot, for example, we shot an interview with Bob uh for Analog Frontiers. *01:25:15* We shot an interview with Jose, which was actually kind of a spur-of-the-moment thing. *01:25:22* Um *01:25:26* Uh Evan was a totally separate thing. *01:25:28* Like Evan, believe it or not, uh was actually the first *01:25:31* documentary idea we ever had. *01:25:38* Oh really? *01:25:41* Many, many years prior, we were like, the guy who's making these Wikipedia photos, like cause he did like a Kickstarter. *01:25:41* uh uh for his project for his book for the book, right? *01:25:50* Yeah, well and I well and you know, I actually didn't realize at the time that the book was part of it. *01:25:53* And we actually happened to do this just when he started getting the first proofs from the publisher. *01:25:58* Oh wow. *01:26:04* I love that book. *01:26:07* I love that book. *01:26:07* Yes. *01:26:09* Oh, it's incredible. *01:26:09* And uh we shot that as a completely separate documentary. *01:26:10* And it was just gonna be him. *01:26:15* And I s when I was working on Analog Frontiers Part 3, when I was, you know, sorting the sound bites and coming up with the script and everything, I was like. *01:26:18* You know what? *01:26:28* Because we had again like we had shot the Evan documentary and it was kind of sitting on the back burner. *01:26:30* It's like, oh we gotta do something with that. *01:26:35* I was like, what what if it was just part of Analog Frontiers? *01:26:38* Like, is there any reason it couldn't be? *01:26:41* Because I thought, you know, his work is actually like *01:26:43* Probably the the the largest reach of anything that has to do with original hardware. *01:26:47* Like, what is this original hardware? *01:26:55* He has at least captured the visual. *01:26:57* of what is this original hardware. *01:26:59* That's most people's only frame of reference for some of this older stuff at this point. *01:27:01* And I thought he he this the this episode is about preservation. *01:27:06* Like he *01:27:10* My conclusion was I'm not putting him in this because I don't think his story stands on its own *01:27:12* I'm putting him in this because I think his story is elevated by being a part of something bigger. *01:27:19* Yeah. *01:27:27* And I so I I thought that was the right the right call there. *01:27:27* And um *01:27:32* You know, he had actually kind of been off the grid a little bit for a few years, and we were like kind of kind of worried, like, I was *01:27:33* Is he doing all right? *01:27:42* And um when that episode came out, yo, he actually had no idea that that that was coming out and that he was in it. *01:27:43* And he actually tweeted that very day, like, hey, you know, I'm still around and I'm working on this and that. *01:27:51* And then when we went to Retro World Expo, the first *01:27:57* Uh, you know, I guess it was 2001, it was late 2001. *01:28:02* Um, he actually came *01:28:08* And it took me a because, you know, everyone's wearing masks and it I didn't I was talking to uh, you know, someone else that we knew that he he and this uh other other friend were *01:28:11* you know, coming to the convention together and I was like not recognizing who this other guy was that was with him because he was wearing the mask. *01:28:21* And then he started talking and he had *01:28:27* version two of his book to give us. *01:28:30* Oh my I was like, oh wait, I just realized who you are. *01:28:33* And it was it was so good *01:28:36* Like that was my favorite part of the whole convention is like getting to catch up with him and talk to him again, you know, after uh after that. *01:28:40* And *01:28:48* uh, you know, just to see that that he was doing well and, you know, that that uh I you know, I think him being included in that documentary was *01:28:48* you know, I think a positive thing for him. *01:28:58* So in the very much that same way, whereas we were focusing more on some individual people in part four *01:29:00* I think now combining that with the themes of part five, I think is actually going to again serve to elevate their stories rather than dilute their stories. *01:29:11* stories because you can see how it connects to this much bigger scene. *01:29:22* Yeah. *01:29:27* I'm I love to hear that. *01:29:28* I *01:29:30* I can't wait, like most people, I assume. *01:29:31* Uh and you most I think most of all can't wait. *01:29:33* Oh, believe me, I've been ready for this to be done for a long time. *01:29:36* But you know what? *01:29:40* It's also good because we *01:29:41* We actually shot uh a few months ago, we shot three new interviews for the final part. *01:29:44* So there's actually people there's actually people who are going to get to be in it. *01:29:50* who couldn't have been in it before. *01:29:54* So so the wait the weight is gonna be worth it. *01:29:56* I'm working currently on *01:29:59* a Retro Tink 4K preview video. *01:30:02* Okay. *01:30:05* And then I'm gonna talk about that. *01:30:05* Yep. *01:30:07* And I'm quickly going to work on a a really short video about uh a new Super Nintendo mod that Voltar has done, which is *01:30:08* Uh you can there's finally about to be a mod. *01:30:17* I actually just got my system back yesterday. *01:30:21* Okay. *01:30:23* Finally going to be a mod for non-one-chip systems that makes them sharp. *01:30:24* Thank goodness, because I've you two guys were just talking about that. *01:30:30* I think the RetroTank 4K stream, I think you mentioned it, because you started out with the Super Nintendo. *01:30:34* And I um *01:30:40* Now that everything, like I said, is hooked up here, it's like, all right, now it's time to I was like, time to RGB mod the N64. *01:30:41* Let's get the Super Nintendo in there. *01:30:48* Let's do it. *01:30:49* Um *01:30:50* Yeah, so I'm gonna work on those and then Corey and I will work together on what I was saying is something that we're thinking about doing as sort of like a 10-year celebration. *01:30:52* And then it's gonna be like Analog Frontiers Part 4, till it's done. *01:31:02* This cannot be another year without the final episode of Analog Frontiers. *01:31:07* I cannot allow that to happen. *01:31:12* I have to get it done and move on with my life. *01:31:13* And not to say that like *01:31:15* I'm not I'm not proud of it or anything. *01:31:17* I'm you know I I'm very proud of the series, but like it's like I I I I *01:31:19* I'm gonna put my all into it. *01:31:25* I'm gonna make sure it's everything I want it to be, but I am ready to move on. *01:31:26* I hear you, I hear you, I love it. *01:31:33* Well *01:31:35* Let's let's move on then. *01:31:36* Back to the land of FPGAs. *01:31:38* We've been talking about it. *01:31:41* It's just naturally come up in this conversation. *01:31:42* Scalish. *01:31:44* You can't help it. *01:31:46* The mist uh the FPGA is all powerful and really I think is the the modern like star of the retro scene lately, I think. *01:31:47* Is if the last *01:31:57* three, four years. *01:31:59* Yeah, and it's not just the consoles, the console emulation, it's also what's na what's driving *01:32:00* the the HDMI mods and it's also what's driving the retro tank and and the OSSC all that kind of stuff like FPGAs have been around for a a while *01:32:07* a long time, of course, and engineers have known what they are, but their potential for being able to do these very specific esoteric tasks. *01:32:17* Like upscaling old video games, which is, you know, done in a way that is you know off-the-shelf chips are not going to get you the ideal results. *01:32:27* You need to basically create bespoke hardware uh f and you do that with an FPGA. *01:32:39* And you know the the the *01:32:45* Where FPGAs have gone in just a few years from, you know, to to the point now where, you know, on the retro team. *01:32:48* 5X and 4K and on the Pixel FX HDMI mods and on the Mr. *01:32:56* All of this like you know shadow mask *01:33:02* uh simulation and and the scan lines are so much more advanced and convincing than they used to be and now you know you're getting like HDR injection and stuff and *01:33:05* Uh which makes the s the scan lines that much more believable. *01:33:16* You're getting black frame insertion on the RetroTink 4K if your TV doesn't support it. *01:33:21* Uh I mean the the stuff that people are *01:33:26* pulling off on the these FPGAs, it goes far beyond emulating systems. *01:33:29* It's it's it's really, you know, driving so much of what is going on in the retro hardware scene *01:33:35* It's it's frankly it's incredible. *01:33:43* And so I wanted to play a clip for you in I've I've finished watching your Mr. *01:33:45* Video actually and just research *01:33:51* You know, for the show, I was like, oh, I never finished the Mr. *01:33:53* episode because I had a I had a Mr. *01:33:56* at the time. *01:33:57* So I like it's two and a half hours. *01:33:57* I can't believe it. *01:34:01* It's such a I mean, but it almost feels like it deserved it. *01:34:02* Anyway. *01:34:05* kinda toward the end of the video, when this was in when it was published at least, was uh March thirty first of last year of twenty twenty two. *01:34:06* Uh and you had this to say about uh *01:34:17* Future dreams for the Mr. *01:34:20* Nintendo 64 seems to be completely off the table from a technical standpoint, so *01:34:23* Box up your hopes and dreams for an FPGA N64 and put them up in the attic for, I don't know, maybe a decade and then check back in. *01:34:28* Alright, so it's now August of 2023 and we have a functioning N64 core on the Mr. *01:34:37* Which is crazy *01:34:45* I I can't believe like it actually really stuck up on me because you know I gotta be honest, like, after finishing that video, like I *01:34:46* Like, I feel like Corey and I had an extremely all-encompassing view of like what was possible on Mr. *01:34:55* at that time. *01:35:02* And after finishing that video, we're just like exhausted and like kind of step away from a bit. *01:35:04* You know, you run the update uh script, you know, every now and then, but like *01:35:08* I had not really been paying that close attention. *01:35:14* You know, I I'm like barely on social media. *01:35:16* I don't really check that much stuff. *01:35:18* You know, I I I need to be listening to the retro RGB podcast with more regularity than I do. *01:35:20* Um, but like I *01:35:26* A lot of things like if like come and I'm like, wait, that's out now? *01:35:28* And I saw something about um *01:35:32* Uh I don't know exactly how you say his name. *01:35:36* FPGA Asm Spouse. *01:35:39* Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. *01:35:41* I don't know. *01:35:42* Whatever his username is. *01:35:43* I forget his real name off the top of my head. *01:35:45* But you know, he's done a lot of crazy, crazy stuff that people would have thought would not be possible on Mr. *01:35:47* like the PS1 core. *01:35:52* And uh I saw that he was developing a *01:35:54* Software emulator, but that was designed to be like a reference for an FPGA emulator. *01:36:00* Like it was designed in such a way where it was really designed for hardware emulation and it would just be too slow to run on *01:36:08* a ca uh a computer is software emulation because it just it wasn't designed that way. *01:36:17* It wasn't designed for that. *01:36:21* It was reference for his FPGA emulator. *01:36:22* And I'm like, oh that's really cool that that that you know he's got that going. *01:36:25* And you know, I saw, you know *01:36:29* People not long after that say like, oh man, what what do you think about N64 coming out? *01:36:31* I'm like, oh it's eh, I don't think that's really happening. *01:36:36* Like he he just made that emulator for future reference. *01:36:39* And then like just a few weeks ago, a friend of mine who uh actually one of the co-founders of the back loggery who got really into Mr. *01:36:43* was like *01:36:53* Was like was like dude we're like weeks away from Mario Kart being playable Mario Kart 64 being playable on Mystery. *01:36:54* I'm like what *01:37:01* When did this happen? *01:37:02* Like I did this like completely flew flew past me, and now I've seen these videos of like, you know, you've probably seen something more recent than I have of like, you know, last thing I saw was like *01:37:04* Clearly Mario Kart functioning, but like a lot of like, you know, billboard textures were broken and stuff, but it was clearly basically working. *01:37:16* And it's like I had no expectation we would get to this point. *01:37:25* On this hardware. *01:37:31* Neither did I. *01:37:32* And I so it's it's good for me from a personal perspective, but I I kind of just left social media this year and I just kind of only tweet out *01:37:33* when a new article or podcast goes up. *01:37:42* So I've I've widely been disconnected from the retro scene, which is a lot of stuff happens on Twitter, like a lot of news breaks there. *01:37:45* And *01:37:52* So I actually I I added retro RGB to the my RSS readers, so I kinda now I'm getting the news articles there and it helps. *01:37:53* Good idea. *01:38:00* Uh but it's just like all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, N64 core is like making really good progress. *01:38:02* Oh, N64 core is working. *01:38:07* Oh, textures are loading in. *01:38:09* Oh, this thing, this part of the N64 is working now. *01:38:10* The audio networks, and it's like *01:38:12* He's just going so fast. *01:38:14* I don't get it. *01:38:18* It's he's an animal. *01:38:19* It's it's unbelievable. *01:38:21* And I'm sure like if there was *01:38:23* You know, I I don't know, I mean I'm I'm not I'm not really a technical guy, so you know when I said that it wasn't possible, it wasn't based on like, oh, I you know, I I *01:38:25* I know how many gates, you know, logic gates are on the N sixty four and how much you've got available on Mr. *01:38:35* And, you know, oh, this type of RAM isn't gonna really work for N sixty four because blah blah blah blah blah. *01:38:40* I don't know that. *01:38:45* I just know that because very smart people have said that. *01:38:46* I thought the same thing that everyone was saying at the time. *01:38:49* PS1 and Saturn are kind of the peak here. *01:38:52* Like it's as much as we can extract. *01:38:55* At the time they were like, maybe 3DL. *01:38:57* Maybe. *01:39:00* And now we're getting N64, which truly does feel like like there's no obviously you can't go you can't go past the N64. *01:39:01* You can't do that. *01:39:08* You can't get Dreamcast. *01:39:09* There's no way. *01:39:10* There's no way Dreamcast is happening. *01:39:10* Right? *01:39:12* Right *01:39:12* But then there's this whole and you know, I I actually have not really done any research on this, but like there's this whole Mars thing now. *01:39:13* I haven't even heard of that. *01:39:20* Okay, so there's some something called Mars that *01:39:22* Is this, you know, that was just announced that is this new, more powerful FPGA platform that, you know, I think some people involved in Mr. *01:39:25* Part of it. *01:39:34* And it's not, I I don't think. *01:39:35* I could be wrong because I've like not really looked into this. *01:39:38* I don't think it's based around like something like the DE10 nano, like a pre-existing board. *01:39:40* Like I think this is going to be like *01:39:46* bespoke PCBs with you know FPGAs and other hardware uh uh you know fitted onto it. *01:39:48* Uh so it it could end up being very expensive. *01:39:57* I don't know, but and I don't know exactly what it's going to open up. *01:40:00* But what I wonder is, you know, are are there shortcuts that had to be taken with *01:40:03* uh how like I I I shouldn't say shortcuts necessarily, but are there, you know, creative compromises that might have had to be made to squeeze like N64? *01:40:10* into functioning on the DE10 nano with the existing type of RAM and stuff that Mr. *01:40:21* can use, would you be able to *01:40:26* You know, maybe it would result in you know the same end result to the user, but could you possibly do something with a with a bigger FPGA or a different RAM configuration? *01:40:30* Could you do something that is perhaps *01:40:39* more accurate to the original hardware. *01:40:41* I I'm just spitballing. *01:40:43* I honestly don't know. *01:40:44* I I I don't wanna I'm not trying to accuse anyone of taking like shortcuts with the current development. *01:40:45* I'm just I'm speculating because I honestly don't know how it works and I don't know *01:40:50* what the advantages of a new type of FPGA uh could be. *01:40:54* But I mean this Mars thing I'm sure it's gonna be amazing and I I can't wait to try it. *01:40:58* I'm sure it's gonna open up a lot of uh *01:41:04* uh more complicated arcade stuff probably. *01:41:06* Uh but in terms of consoles, uh like gosh, who who knows? *01:41:09* But what what we know now, and I always like to emphasize this, just because something new is coming out doesn't mean *01:41:14* uh you know what you currently have suddenly becomes a bad product. *01:41:20* Like people shouldn't feel like, oh well like Mr. *01:41:24* isn't worth it anymore because there's gonna be this new thing. *01:41:27* Uh well for one m you know I I I *01:41:30* you know, some of the newer products could be more expensive. *01:41:33* Don't know. *01:41:36* And certainly what it Mr. *01:41:37* plays well now, it will always play well. *01:41:38* And not only that, you know, with the Retro Team 4K, as long as you have *01:41:42* A good signal from the source, it doesn't matter if it was only outputting, you know, it doesn't matter if like this new uh new FPGA thing could do 4K. *01:41:51* You could output 720p from the MISTER and get the exact same result from the RetroTink 4K. *01:42:02* Right. *01:42:07* You could output the native signal from the MISTER. *01:42:07* You could output 240p or 480i over HDMI to the RetroTink 4K. *01:42:11* And get the same result. *01:42:16* Like, that's what's in that's what's incredible. *01:42:18* Like what the big a big focus for my RetroTink 4K video. *01:42:20* I I I'm sorry for shifting off the Mr. *01:42:24* again. *01:42:27* But um *01:42:29* A big focus for that episode is going to be on because this isn't what I've spent most of my time testing, just because it's what's new and shiny, is the HDMI input. *01:42:30* Yeah, that's what I wanted to really ask you about. *01:42:39* Was so I um again, everything's hooked up now, right? *01:42:41* So when I I got a new job last year and I was *01:42:45* There was like a little little chunk of a sign on bonus and I I went to my wife and said, Can I use this to buy an upscaler? *01:42:49* And I got the green light and I got, you know, the 5X Pro because that was the thing at the time and it it *01:42:57* It meets my needs. *01:43:02* And and will still be a great product because the the 4K will almost certainly be a good deal more expensive. *01:43:03* It's still going to be a product that I believe is going to be made and and and sold and supported, you know, because it it s it it *01:43:10* it it's a different price tier. *01:43:17* It not everyone is going to I mean we don't know what the 4K is going to cost, but it's probably under a thousand dollars. *01:43:19* Under a thousand dollars is all we know. *01:43:24* And hopefully a good bit less than that. *01:43:26* Hopefully a good bit less than that. *01:43:28* I hope so that's all we know. *01:43:30* That's all we know. *01:43:32* But it will almost certainly be a a a good bit more, I think, than the the the 5X. *01:43:33* So you know people shouldn't feel bad just because the 4K is coming. *01:43:37* Right. *01:43:42* So I'm sorry to to come off. *01:43:42* No, you're fine. *01:43:44* I don't feel bad. *01:43:44* I mean I I I still want the fork because that uh so setting all this stuff up and I *01:43:45* I've been, you know, I kind of now that everything is plugged in, I'm like, all right, now's the time to update, you know, my PSTV and update, you know, my Wii U setup. *01:43:53* Actually, you're *01:44:01* Um somewhere in one of the discords that we kind of like just happen to both be in, you I think it was the r the retrotink one. *01:44:03* You were talking about, you know, DS games on Wii U, and someone mentioned like new borders, and I was like, ah, now I gotta get these new borders installed, which is a whole process. *01:44:12* Talk about *01:44:21* managing your files. *01:44:22* I had to like FTP into the Wii U to like add it's I mean it's it's nice, but it it was someone was telling telling me that that some of that DS stuff, uh homebrew stuff is *01:44:23* is weird on the Wii U. *01:44:34* I I my my Wii U is is not hacked, so it I I what did I I did it *01:44:35* So I originally even hacked my Wii U because we're doing that uh the my other show, Chapter Select, season six is going on right now, and that's Pokemon. *01:44:43* And I was trying to figure out the best way to capture *01:44:53* the DS Pokemon games and represent them, you know, in some nice way. *01:44:57* And I was like, well the Wii U might be it. *01:45:01* So I was like, well I'll just I'll hack it and load my the the DS ROMs onto that. *01:45:03* And of course *01:45:08* out of you know the list of games that aren't super compatible or 100% compatible are the Pokemon games, of course. *01:45:09* So I went I went a different route there. *01:45:15* Um basically just overhead camera shots uh were applicable, but *01:45:17* You know, then it was hacked and ready to go. *01:45:22* And so now it's it's all set up again and it was quite the dance. *01:45:24* Because it and the Wii U scene has a new homebrew install method, so I had to like *01:45:28* read it's a whole thing. *01:45:33* Um you know what it's like. *01:45:34* Ah, what was I saying? *01:45:37* Um we were talking about the DS stuff on there. *01:45:39* Oh we were HDMI, HDMI in and stuff. *01:45:42* So I'm putting it out to the tink. *01:45:45* And then I'm learning that the Wii U only puts out in the limited color space and uh over progressive, it was a little different in the Vita TV, same thing. *01:45:47* I'm got it going into a *01:45:55* converter box, but it's not looking quite the same because it the 5X only does like 1080i kinda sorta, again also in the limited range. *01:45:56* And so the more and more this this HDMI port on the 4K is like, oh, this seems pretty good. *01:46:05* And so, you know *01:46:11* What I I'm gonna play this clip too, which was in your from twenty twenty in August. *01:46:14* Oh during the Uplink panel, your uh first panel for the Uplink event, you uh you talked about *01:46:20* kind of what you wanted to see next in the retro scene. *01:46:28* Um but something I would really like to see is a nearest neighbor 4K upscale. *01:46:31* And we have it. *01:46:37* We're here. *01:46:38* We have two Well, uh I mean we're we're not you know, I actually wrote I've written in my Retro Team 4K preview script, I said to be clear, we're not there yet. *01:46:38* Okay *01:46:48* This is uh this is a prototype unit and we're just hoping that these devices release at the end of 2023, like the creators are hoping. *01:46:49* Um *01:46:59* We're close. *01:47:00* We're very, very close. *01:47:01* But we're there. *01:47:02* We're there. *01:47:03* We are there. *01:47:03* And so ta talk to me about this HDMI feature because I feel like this is the the game changer. *01:47:04* This is the game changer, I think. *01:47:10* It's what I've spent most of my time testing. *01:47:11* And, you know, kind of as a bridge from what we were talking about like, you know, uh before about, you know, the you know the your your old FPGA systems *01:47:14* If you combine it, as long as the core experience is good, as long as you were originally having like you know good scaling or at least uh good um options for your scaling from the source. *01:47:24* And you know, you've already got low latency gameplay experience, the emulation is accurate or whatever. *01:47:36* As long as you've got a good experience there, you can make *01:47:42* That experience is good as any other with you know an upscaler that is upscaling to your screen's native resolution. *01:47:46* And so, for example. *01:47:55* You know, I've got the AVS, which is a uh 720p output FPGA system for NES and Famicom games. *01:47:57* I've got the NT Mini, which and the high def Ness and the NT Mini Noir, all of which are *01:48:06* By Kevtris, and they all have slightly different capabilities. *01:48:15* You know, the the NT the first NT Mini uh you know is at FPGA N E S. *01:48:18* But it's very similar to the high def Ness, which by the way, I don't normally say NES, but that is what the creator calls the mod, the high def Ness. *01:48:24* That's the HDMI mod for the original NES. *01:48:33* The high deafness. *01:48:36* I think it was talked about in RGB 101. *01:48:37* I think. *01:48:40* The high deafness? *01:48:41* No. *01:48:42* That was its own episode because that wasn't out yet. *01:48:43* Okay. *01:48:46* That you were oh no, I know what it was. *01:48:46* Um or in RGB 101 it was the people were taking boards *01:48:54* From Play Choice 10. *01:48:59* Yeah, yeah, yeah. *01:49:01* Okay, that's what it was. *01:49:02* My bad. *01:49:03* Yeah, so um so the high deafness *01:49:04* That that video was actually the like I like the first time that I had ever realized the problem of shimmering. *01:49:08* You know, of uneven pixel scaling when the screen scrolls, if your pixels are not the same size. *01:49:16* Uh when the screen scrolls, you're gonna get the shimmer effect. *01:49:25* And so that was like the very first video. *01:49:29* It's become my nemesis ever since. *01:49:30* Shimmer. *01:49:33* And it's it's still so amazing to me that so many devices and so many retro game compilations and indie games. *01:49:34* Pixel art indie games come out and their scaling is uneven and you get this shimmer effect. *01:49:43* And I just don't understand how like the artists for these indie games *01:49:50* Don't tell the programmers like, hey, don't don't don't make my artwork look like crap. *01:49:55* Like scale this right. *01:49:59* You know? *01:50:01* And so what interpolation does is it makes it so that if you aren't doing an integer scale. *01:50:02* You can get what with just a little softening to the pixels, you get what is perceived as evenly sized pixels. *01:50:10* That gets rid of the scrolling shimmer. *01:50:18* Yes. *01:50:21* So um so anyway, the AVS actually had interpolation patched in later. *01:50:21* Which was interesting. *01:50:28* The NT Mini Noah, or excuse me, the NT Mini, Kevtris's first FPGA NES, and then before then was the high def Ness HDMI mod that he made. *01:50:30* And it has very similar capabilities. *01:50:41* 1080p output. *01:50:43* So you have to do something like the high def Ness can't do a 5x scale. *01:50:51* It can do a 4x scale, it can do a 5x scale horizontally, but your aspect ratio is going to be kind of wide. *01:50:55* Or you could have a correct aspect ratio, but it's going to shimmer. *01:51:02* Or then on the NT Mini, you can have a 5X vertical scale and a 6X horizontal scale, which is somewhat closer aspect, correct aspect ratio, not quite right. *01:51:06* You can eliminate scrolling shimmer that way, but again, no interpolation. *01:51:15* You can't totally *01:51:17* You either have to have a somewhat incorrect aspect ratio or you have to have shimmer. *01:51:18* Then the NT Mini Noir came out after the Super NT and the Mega SG, both of which have interpolation. *01:51:22* So you can have an accurate aspect ratio with no scrolling shimmer. *01:51:30* So the NT Mini Noir has that. *01:51:34* But you know what? *01:51:37* It don't matter! *01:51:38* If you which of those systems you have? *01:51:40* Because on the RetroTink 4K, you can fix their problems. *01:51:43* If you want hard-edged razor sharp pixels, as long as you scale the source correctly and then rescale it correctly on the RetroTink 4K, you'll have the exact same looking sharp pixels, no matter whether your original output was. *01:51:49* 480p or 720p or or 1080p. *01:52:02* It doesn't matter if it had interpolation or no interpolation. *01:52:06* You can make it look exactly the same. *01:52:10* As long as you use the right settings. *01:52:13* And that so in other words, here's something like the AVS, which is significantly more affordable than the ND Mini Noir. *01:52:15* Oh, especially in the market price. *01:52:24* Yeah, and you you get a minimal latency NES gameplay experience with either device. *01:52:27* Uh, you know, you can get the same result from the mister, you know, in in terms at least visually, you can get the same result. *01:52:36* So it's this. *01:52:43* It sort of seems weird to call an expensive device an equalizer, but it kind of is, if you think about it, because you think of the value *01:52:46* That it adds to so many devices that you already own and the added longevity it gives those devices. *01:52:55* So if if analog r releases like a 4K super NT. *01:53:03* I mean, I guess that's cool, but if you have a RetroTink 4K, like who cares? *01:53:09* Yeah. *01:53:15* Really? *01:53:15* Right? *01:53:16* It's so so you don't have to keep chasing the next device. *01:53:17* Or this Mars thing. *01:53:21* Say I I was scrolling through their Twitter and I don't know if it says four K output out of four *01:53:23* Um the four four four. *01:53:29* I I don't it seems that's what they're implying or teasing here. *01:53:31* But if you have a Mr. *01:53:35* already and you get a RetroTink 4K, you wouldn't unless *01:53:36* J purely for visual quality here. *01:53:40* Purely for visual quality. *01:53:43* You wouldn't have to upgrade to the next FPGA device. *01:53:45* You could just keep using the Mr. *01:53:48* Or. *01:53:50* your analog pocket or your super nt or your ps3 you know you don't have to necessarily rgb mod uh ps1 or or or not rgb mod but hdmi mod *01:53:51* Something because you could use your PS3 if that s you know suited your needs. *01:54:04* It's exactly it sounds so cool. *01:54:08* It's yeah, it's and and also like, you know, some of these modern pixel art games *01:54:12* Um you can you can pre-scale so um you can use a feature called pre-scaling to *01:54:17* set a lower initial resolution to then scale. *01:54:26* So let's say uh I mean let's say we've got a game that's like actually pretty respectably scaled. *01:54:31* It's you know *01:54:37* or indie game or a emulated uh compilation. *01:54:38* You know, it's got good settings. *01:54:42* It's using like an integer scale. *01:54:43* Now it might like if you're on a switch, for example. *01:54:45* Maybe the scaling is designed for 720p, or maybe it's designed for 1080p. *01:54:48* So you might have to set your system a little different depending on the game, but you can pre-scale it and you get *01:54:55* You can fix games that perhaps had a blurry that like they maybe maybe they were get this really blurry scale and maybe you didn't like that. *01:55:02* Or maybe you want to add like a CRT mask effect or a scan line effect, you can pre-scale it. *01:55:12* You know, if you were to just add scan lines to the raw 720p or 1080p source. *01:55:18* Their scale lines aren't gonna be in the right place. *01:55:23* But if you pre-scale it, like say it's a 240p game, and you s set your switch to output 720p and then set your *01:55:26* prescale to one third and you've got two forty p now, your scan lines are gonna go in the right place. *01:55:33* So and and not only that there are games that that have *01:55:40* uneven pixel sizing that I have been able to fix by figuring out what is the appropriate vertical and horizontal prescale and *01:55:44* You whether you want to play them with sharp pixels or whether you want to play them with CRT effects, you have the shimmer fixed. *01:55:55* And that's been like a huge focus for me and my testing, because that's like I feel like I feel like *01:56:03* That like like I I I I don't know like that that's just like I I I I I feel born till I test this stuff. *01:56:09* Like this this is what I was meant to do. *01:56:17* Like this is what I've been complaining about *01:56:19* All these years, all these poorly scaled games, like th like, you know, you know, uh we're we're good friends with John Linneman from Digital Foundry and like we we've mused with him like we need to like develop like a standard. *01:56:21* Like say like, hey developers, this is how you should treat your pixel art. *01:56:35* Yeah. *01:56:41* And on top of that, I feel like we can with something like the RetroTink 4K, I feel like we can make a preservation argument. *01:56:41* For even if this is not exactly how you, the developer, want this game to be to look right now, like maybe you have a reason for doing some sort of weird scale, or maybe you just really like the soft *01:56:50* blurry scaling at least give us the option to scale things this way because from a preservation standpoint *01:57:02* You in the future, if we get an 8K upscaler or other upscalers in the future, from a preservation standpoint, the more pure access you give us to the pixels of your game, the *01:57:11* better we can make it look in the future. *01:57:26* Whereas if you kind of give us something that's a little screwy from the beginning, it limits our options for how we can improve this for future display technology *01:57:29* Yeah. *01:57:40* I I just keep thinking about like how I feel like *01:57:41* The early H D era that P the PS three, the three sixty, and um *01:57:50* We'll throw the Wii U in there. *01:57:59* The Wii was that time, but it not HD. *01:58:01* Yeah, yeah. *01:58:03* Yeah, yeah. *01:58:04* I feel like that's kind of the *01:58:05* landlock generation. *01:58:09* It was it was this step between the PS4, Xbox One, and and PS2 in the Xbox. *01:58:11* And things are just stuck there. *01:58:18* And really right now *01:58:21* Those stores are shutting down, you know. *01:58:23* I mean the Wii's been gone for a while, but the Wii U and 3DS just closed this year. *01:58:25* Sony tried to close the PS3 and the Vita. *01:58:29* I think last year or the year before, but they at least there's games slowly going away from the service even though they didn't close the store. *01:58:32* Yeah, there's di you know, things are just disappearing. *01:58:40* And then the Xbox store is closing next year, the three sixty store. *01:58:43* And then those but there's so many games on them and and Xbox, you know, they did their backward compatibility program for a few years, so there's at least an emulation option on official hardware, which is is nice. *01:58:47* But the PS3 *01:58:58* There is no way to play well outside of emulation on the computer, which I hear is getting quite good. *01:59:00* Uh my source for that would be John Lennon when he did his little video exploring. *01:59:06* Exactly. *01:59:10* Well he's got way better GPU than I have, so way better than me. *01:59:11* And it's this feels like the device and *01:59:16* Uh perhaps the more 4K will be as well. *01:59:22* You know, that's kind of the other 4K scale that was just announced. *01:59:24* Right. *01:59:27* We just haven't seen anything from it yet. *01:59:27* So we don't want to assume or say anything until we can see things. *01:59:30* But this feels like a way to *01:59:33* It almost feels like the frameister was for you guys to the NES and the Genesis and stuff, bringing those old consoles up to modern flat panels of the time. *01:59:36* It feels like we're having that moment again with now modern 4K, OLED, flat panel TVs now, and the early HD consoles that were 720p or 1080i and 1080p. *01:59:47* It's like it feels like that moment again to me. *02:00:01* Is that do you feel that way? *02:00:04* Yeah. *02:00:07* I mean we're we're fine we're finally getting the tools to do something with those systems. *02:00:07* Something really effective. *02:00:12* think. *02:00:14* You know, you know, I'll be honest, like the distance that I sit from my TV, you know, the LGC1 handles *02:00:15* Especially if you set your if you label your input as PC uh on the C1, you know, 720p and 1080p are handled relatively cleanly and you know I sit about eight feet away from my screen. *02:00:23* I don't see like a massive difference with like 1080p or 720. *02:00:36* I mean, especially 1080p, it's a little hard to tell the difference between like the nearest neighbor scale and just my TV scaling. *02:00:40* 720p, I can tell the difference. *02:00:48* Um but um uh you know it it's it's also like you know it's just such a better way to capture this stuff and present it online. *02:00:50* It's a better way to *02:01:00* preserve the core visuals of those games, I feel. *02:01:02* I think a lot of people are going to say when they see like PS3 games upscale though, I think they're gonna say like, oh well it just makes the aliasing more more more visible. *02:01:05* And you know, I mean, you know, there's the whole like there's the M Classic, of course. *02:01:14* Uh I don't know where you stand on the M Classic. *02:01:19* Um It's not a tool for me, I don't think. *02:01:22* Yeah, same same with me. *02:01:25* It does something though. *02:01:27* It does do something. *02:01:28* Yes. *02:01:30* But but my my perspective on it is *02:01:30* If you look at a still screenshot, or just you know, a still screen in a game where there's not a lot moving, like you're like, yes, I can see some *02:01:37* Areas are smoothed over that there's not as much of a stair step. *02:01:48* But here's the thing: once that image is in motion *02:01:52* There's still this like the warble to like the the alias edges. *02:01:57* It's just it warbles in a different way than it does without it. *02:02:01* But it's still warbles. *02:02:06* That's just my perspective. *02:02:08* Like I I see that and I'm like, I don't see this as effectively less aliased *02:02:09* when the game is in motion. *02:02:14* Like I still see like, you know, low detail sort of sparkly effects on like, you know, s something that might be on the character's clothes or something. *02:02:16* Like *02:02:24* Like it just doesn't look that different to me. *02:02:25* Um and I so it from that perspective, I don't think *02:02:28* You know, I like those generations like had either very little or very rudimentary anti-aliasing techniques. *02:02:35* techniques. *02:02:45* It wasn't really until like the middle of like the PS3 generation that you started getting more like really clean, like temporal uh uh based like anti-aliasing solutions. *02:02:45* So the that that that's just how those games look in that generation. *02:02:57* And in a lot of ways, I feel like it it it helps to just lean into it. *02:03:00* Like that *02:03:06* Like instead of like trying to fight it, just lean into it. *02:03:07* Lean into how those games look. *02:03:10* Lean into the look of that generation. *02:03:12* Of course, things are more complicated now that we've got like *02:03:14* you know, a lot of games with dynamic resolution scaling. *02:03:17* Like a lot of people were like, oh, is like Tears of the Kingdom gonna look better if you say uh set it to 720p instead of it like going between like all of these different resolutions? *02:03:19* Uh I don't know if I really agree with that. *02:03:30* Like I I I think it looks fine at ten eighty P. *02:03:32* Um but I haven't played yet. *02:03:35* It came out right before we moved. *02:03:39* Um *02:03:41* It's just like when I play Zelda, I I need to just commit, you know? *02:03:43* It's gotta be it's gotta be the game I'm playing, and I'm it's I'm just not in the spot right now. *02:03:49* I want to then *02:03:53* I I I don't know if I've ever played a game where I felt like that awake and alert the entire time I played it. *02:03:55* Like like I was never like *02:04:04* I was like, uh, yeah, I'll just go to bed. *02:04:06* Like I like like it I I just didn't feel sleepy, ever played it. *02:04:09* Like I was just like ki constantly compelled. *02:04:14* It's so tempting. *02:04:17* It's just leaning there. *02:04:18* Like and not being on social media this year is actually really good for me because I've seen nothing. *02:04:20* I've I've seen the official Nintendo trailer. *02:04:26* And that's it? *02:04:29* So the game is still a mystery to me, which I really am excited about because that's the fun. *02:04:31* And a Zelda game is learning the land and discovering it. *02:04:38* But it's but I bought everything though. *02:04:41* Try. *02:04:44* I bought the Switch, the Collector's Edition, the controller. *02:04:44* So I have all the Zelda stuff just in my face constantly. *02:04:48* Like I'm going to do that. *02:04:51* No, I'm not gonna buy a switch OLED, I'm gonna wait for you know the the switch to or I'm gonna wait for the next official platform. *02:04:56* I can hold out for it, I can make it *02:05:03* No. *02:05:05* And then the Zelda switch came out and I'm like, fine, I'll get it. *02:05:05* I knew it. *02:05:09* I knew well, okay, I have to be, you know, I have to confess this is my third OLED. *02:05:10* Oh, okay. *02:05:16* I I got the original one year. *02:05:17* Um just I was like, I want the OLED screen. *02:05:21* You know, I like OLED technology. *02:05:24* It it reminded me of the Vita, near and dear to my heart. *02:05:26* And then they uh announced the Splatoon 3 OLED and those Joy Cons spoke to me. *02:05:29* The translucent plastic on the back, the purples and stuff. *02:05:35* I was like, I'll sell the other OLED and just buy the Splatoon. *02:05:38* And then And then they did the Zelda one, and I have a sickness like most I think game collectors that love Zelda. *02:05:43* Uh have to get whatever they do with Zelda. *02:05:51* So but I I sold an old phone to get the OLED for that that was nothing lost there. *02:05:54* But Yeah. *02:06:01* But you know, I I think I think that game was *02:06:02* You know, I I I I I play Switch quite a lot. *02:06:06* I I, you know, I'm I'm a Nintendo guy at heart, you know, I I *02:06:09* Uh, you know, I I the the the switch is is never like that l left unplayed for that long. *02:06:14* And I I tend to be, you know, prefer to play on the TV versus *02:06:21* on the screen guy. *02:06:25* So, you know, I I I have realistic expectations of what Switch games look like. *02:06:26* on my TV. *02:06:33* Like I I I I I'm under no illusion of that. *02:06:34* And I think for a lot of people, Tears of the Kingdom was this big like event game that brought them back to their sw *02:06:37* Right. *02:06:45* And I saw a lot of people being like, oh, this looks so bad on my 4K TV, because I think either they hadn't played a lot of Switch on t the TV since *02:06:45* uh since they got a 4K TV or they just hadn't played like a triple A style Switch game in a very long time. *02:06:56* Yeah. *02:07:03* Especially in docked mode. *02:07:04* And I think it was this big like, oh my gosh, this looks so bad compared to my PS5 or my Xbox Series X. *02:07:05* And um *02:07:12* Uh people were like, oh, we need that new switch now. *02:07:13* And you know, I actually had the reverse reaction. *02:07:16* It was kind of funny because for the longest time I was like *02:07:18* Like I was like, man, you know, I I'm gonna get, you know, the sequel to Breath of the Wild, you know, because it was just like Breath of the Wild too for a long time. *02:07:22* I was like, I'm gonna get that day one. *02:07:30* I'm gonna play it day one. *02:07:34* I know I'm gonna love it, but I'm just like, I am not excited to play *02:07:35* Uh, you know, a game that is very similar to the previous Zelda game on the exact same hardware *02:07:41* Yeah. *02:07:49* I played that game on. *02:07:49* Like I want, if it's going to be a similar game, I want to be, I want to play it on the new Switch. *02:07:50* I want to like be something that can push things forward. *02:07:55* It kinda like you like Breath of the Wild was a Wii U in a a Switch launch, it's like, we're gonna play it on the Switch. *02:07:59* Or Twilight Princess, I'm gonna play it on the Wii. *02:08:05* Um yeah, yeah, yeah. *02:08:08* You know, Digital Foundry kept doing, you know, the the the too big for switch joke, right? *02:08:09* Like but like I knew I knew it wasn't like they were gonna like *02:08:13* cancel it for I think I was thinking like oh I bet they'll do the same thing they do with Breath of the Wild release it on Switch and Switch 2. *02:08:17* It's gonna be like so much better on the Switch 2 and that's what I want to happen. *02:08:22* And uh *02:08:27* But in the end, I was actually like, you know what? *02:08:30* I am glad this ended up being just a game for the the Switch. *02:08:35* Because I am so *02:08:40* Like, I I I'm it's very easy for me to put games in context. *02:08:43* That's why I can still look at an NES game and be like, oh my gosh, I can't believe *02:08:48* What? *02:08:53* That's crazy if they did that on NES, right? *02:08:54* Like I can look at an NES game and still think it's like beautiful, impressive, and blow my mind. *02:08:57* And it's not hard for me to like I think a lot of people struggle with that. *02:09:02* There's like it's like, oh we well, we've moved on to, you know, 4K 60 frames per second. *02:09:06* Old game old. *02:09:10* Old game old. *02:09:12* I can't go back to that now. *02:09:13* And like I it's very easy for me to put things in context. *02:09:15* And when I saw the things that they were pulling off, the the the sheer audacity *02:09:20* That they had to have the gameplay mechanics that they have in this game on Switch. *02:09:26* It's like, are you guys nuts? *02:09:31* And yet, they pulled it off pretty darn well. *02:09:34* Like, yeah, the game has. *02:09:38* Some frame drops, but it's never in a way that is like especially obnoxious or obtrusive to the gameplay. *02:09:40* Like by and large, the game is pretty stable. *02:09:49* It is 60 frames per second target. *02:09:53* I I I know what what you know a uh a dynamic resolution switch game is gonna look like on my TV. *02:09:55* I'm under no illusion that it's gonna look like a PS5 game. *02:10:02* Like so I was *02:10:05* I was actually glad. *02:10:07* Contrary to how I'd been feeling during the whole lead up, where I was like, man, I wish they'd just hold this back for the next system. *02:10:10* Once I played it, I'm like, I am so impressed that this is a Switch game. *02:10:17* And that increased my enjoyment of it. *02:10:22* So, but you know, that that's a long tangent to say. *02:10:24* I think that game was a game *02:10:28* Where a lot of people, not necessarily me, but a lot of people were like we gotta do something about how these games look on 4K TV *02:10:30* Right? *02:10:38* Yeah. *02:10:38* Um and I have played Breath of the Wild through the Retro Tink 4K. *02:10:39* I've I've tried, I've experimented with downscaling, I've experimented with adding scan lines and different uh *02:10:42* softening filters. *02:10:49* And and Mike is saying that he wants to have like more like different options for smoothing than what's already there. *02:10:50* I mean I I I mean you know how the 5X has gone. *02:10:57* I mean I'm I'm sure there's going to be a lot of new features and *02:11:00* uh stuff that uh you know between now and launch and even beyond launch uh so I when he says he wants to do something I believe him. *02:11:04* Yeah. *02:11:12* But I I've experimented, but like I haven't really settled on anything where I'm like, yes, this is like clearly a comprehensive improvement to the game. *02:11:13* But again, I *02:11:21* I I know what I'm looking at when I look at a Switch game on my TV. *02:11:24* I I I I I didn't find anything that was like, yes, this is definitely better for Tears of the Kingdom. *02:11:27* uh playing it this way. *02:11:36* But some people some people might try like outputting it at 720p. *02:11:38* They might try different uh vertical or horizontal um *02:11:41* filters um they might even try there's there's an effect that you can make like if you set if you're s if you're outputting 720p you can like have like this *02:11:46* LCD uh overlay that makes it look like your your 4K TV is a native 720p TV. *02:11:58* Like it makes like *02:12:06* The pixels all being nestled cozily within their own little part of the pixel grid, you know, that makes it look like, you know, a s 720p TV. *02:12:07* So, you know, some people might really like that. *02:12:15* I don't *02:12:18* I don't see myself doing that with like 720p games necessarily, but a lot of people might really like that. *02:12:18* I really like how they look uh with nearest neighbor. *02:12:24* Um *02:12:27* You know, I actually just played through near automata uh PS4 version on PS5. *02:12:28* I played through the the whole game. *02:12:34* Well, I I I I started I maybe played like four hours before I got my RetroTank prototype *02:12:36* But I didn't I just use nearest neighbor scaling and the HDR effect because I think the HDR injection it does is like so much better than like what PS5 does with *02:12:41* Oh, because PS5 has not just like auto HDR everything. *02:12:54* If if you play a game that does not support HDR, you can have the PS5 output it as HDR. *02:12:58* But the control the retro team gives you over the how many nits uh and the gamma correction that you might need for *02:13:05* uh black frame and the you know compensate for like black f black frame insertion and stuff like that because near automata it's it targets 60 frames per second doesn't hit it on PS4 PS4 Pro does *02:13:13* On PS5. *02:13:25* So I was able to play on PS5 with black frame insertion, which increased, you know, the motion clarity significantly. *02:13:26* And thanks to the retro tink *02:13:32* It was really the HDR that that made the experience more so than even the uh the nearest neighbor upscale. *02:13:35* Because, you know, again, I'm seeing far back. *02:13:43* It still looked pretty good even without that nearest neighbor upscale, right? *02:13:45* But uh the HDR made it so I could make the picture just as bright as if I wasn't using black frame insertion at all. *02:13:50* So that was actually a major enhancement to my experience in a game that you might not think of as a game to use with the Retro Tank 4K and on a system. *02:13:59* that you might not think to use with the Retro Tink 4K because that game is only 1080p anyway, right? *02:14:09* But I, you know, output the PS5 as 1080p to the Retro Tink 4K and *02:14:14* I was able to get benefit playing, you know, a a relatively modern 3D action game. *02:14:19* Yeah, it's actually *02:14:25* It makes it makes me just think like where what needs to be plugged in the tank, you know, like what's this daisy chain of cables? *02:14:28* You know, when when do you take the PS5 out of the TV and put it into the Tink or the Xbox Series X? *02:14:39* Like when does that that, you know, putting it down to 1080p, but then using the Tink to upscale it, when does that *02:14:45* Uh I mean, you know, I've been thinking about how like the Series S, even though like I feel like of all the consoles that exist, like *02:14:52* The the the the Venn diagram of of the Series S target audience and the RetroTink 4K target audience is probably the smallest overlap. *02:15:00* of like any system, but at the same time, I think they're great partners because Series S games are going to be rendering at a much lower resolution. *02:15:10* You don't lose that much outputting them at 1080p *02:15:21* You know, or even 720p maybe there might be some interesting things you could do with that. *02:15:24* Plus, like think of all the Xbox 360 games you could play that way. *02:15:29* Most of those don't have a 4K upscale in backwards compatibility mode. *02:15:33* Most of them are still 720p. *02:15:38* So set your Series S or Series X to 720p. *02:15:40* You can get a great experience with *02:15:44* On those new Xbox systems for those Xbox 360 games, you get a smoother frame rate than you would get on original hardware, but you can upscale that original resolution in a way that looks really, really clean. *02:15:47* Man, sounds so crazy. *02:16:00* It just sounds nutty. *02:16:02* Like the HDR combined with s the slot mask to you know one day *02:16:04* One day our tube TVs won't work very well. *02:16:13* Like my my, you know, I have a Trinitron over here and I can't find anyone locally *02:16:15* to come in and calibrate it and I'm too terrified to open the thing up to try and do anything. *02:16:22* And so, you know, I've got, you know, it's kinda squiggly up at the top and there's some rainbow color blending things. *02:16:28* It's just not center, you know. *02:16:34* You know how it goes. *02:16:37* And it's like, well, eventually, one day it just won't turn on, or something will truly be wrong with it, and I'm I'm really gonna be stuck. *02:16:39* But I've *02:16:47* These tools, even just the 5X Pro or the Mr. *02:16:48* really feels like it's giving me the tools, the means. *02:16:53* To capture the way I remember these games looking or how the games were supposed to look. *02:16:58* I think one of the most compelling images that I've ever seen, and I think it gets passed around quite a bit, wobbling pixels. *02:17:04* over on Twitter. *02:17:11* He didn't think 4K prototype. *02:17:12* He does. *02:17:15* He's one of the people. *02:17:15* You know, you gotta see everyone in the Tink who's got him. *02:17:16* You know, they're these mythical like foot-long boxes that are floating out there. *02:17:19* I have a feeling your next three podcast guests are are going to be some of these people. *02:17:24* I would love. *02:17:29* I've been thinking about reaching out to Mike maybe, but uh he's just he seems so busy. *02:17:30* I don't know. *02:17:33* I would love to, but *02:17:34* So Wobbling Pixels did this comparison of here's raw RGB scaled output of like Castlevania and Dracula's face. *02:17:35* And then he shows you it on a CRT and just the D *02:17:43* There's detail that's lost when you don't have the scan line the way it was intended, which is that artist *02:17:47* That's what the artist was doing, right? *02:17:55* You know, I like Dracula's eyes like bleed out to look this red wideness, but it's really just one little red pixel. *02:17:57* And scanlines have notoriously never really quite looked right, kinda I think up until these last couple of years. *02:18:05* But now *02:18:14* I feel like we're getting really close to accurate CRT visual replacement. *02:18:15* You know, because PVMs and BVMs just get more and more expensive every year. *02:18:23* Uh really miss the boat on that. *02:18:29* And CRTs z same as well, eventually. *02:18:31* You know, I saw a dinky little *02:18:34* I don't know, nine inch just regular c consumer CRT at a store for like sixty, seventy bucks. *02:18:37* You know th that's not you know, and *02:18:43* It's also how most people know how to hook up these old consoles, right? *02:18:47* Because more and more modern TVs are dropping analog, the uh even just the ability to buy adapters to plug in analog stuff. *02:18:51* So the *02:19:01* an upscaler, the Tink 4K, the 5X Pro, the Morph, uh the 2X, whatever. *02:19:02* Whatever scale if you really wanted to buy a FrameMaster today, you've s *02:19:08* It it it solves almost it solves so many problems or just solutions, ways to hook up old hardware to modern TVs, make it look good. *02:19:12* But also it's kind of like you said with the backloggery videos at the beginning. *02:19:23* We capture all this footage in really high quality and then we're gonna dumb it down to VHS. *02:19:26* I mean, and but you know, it's really that, like, for me, the big step forward was black frame insertion and HDR, I think. *02:19:33* Yeah. *02:19:41* Because um *02:19:42* You know, I I can do black frame insertion on my uh LGC1. *02:19:44* And that was, you know, even though it makes the picture darker. *02:19:48* When I saw like scan lines through the Mr. *02:19:52* on the C1, I was like, I start to see the appeal of artificial scan lines. *02:19:56* lines like I've always liked scan lines on real CRTs but on on modern TVs like you see them but then when the *02:20:00* screen the images moving like they kind of blur and black frame insertion helps give them that stability that they need to have the intended effect I think um *02:20:10* And then, you know, but then of course scan lines make the picture dark. *02:20:23* Black frame insertion makes the picture dark. *02:20:26* Uh HDR. *02:20:28* uh that we're getting on some of these devices now. *02:20:30* And to be honest, I have not really tested HDR that much on like the RetroTink 5X or the Mr. *02:20:33* Um or like the Pixel FX mods. *02:20:38* They have HDR now as well. *02:20:40* I've not tested that feature that much, but I've tested that. *02:20:42* Uh I think. *02:20:46* I think it had at some point. *02:20:48* That would blow my mind. *02:20:50* I have tried it on the 5X, but it's it's *02:20:53* I think the more caveats I think it's only HDR it's only HDR ten. *02:20:56* I know that because it pops up when my um *02:21:01* When you switch it in the LG the C one it pops over. *02:21:05* And I think HDR ten has some limitations. *02:21:08* Like it's not that full blown *02:21:11* Right. *02:21:13* Well it is HDR. *02:21:14* I mean it is HDR 10 on the 4K as well, but I think it might be at a it might be at a more a fuller bit depth, I think. *02:21:15* So you might be it. *02:21:23* Have more accurate like um *02:21:25* color translation and less risk of like adding like banding artifacts or anything like that. *02:21:28* I think. *02:21:33* I think that might be. *02:21:34* I could be wrong in the Mr. *02:21:35* But I think but I've I've not I've not tested those features on that that those that much. *02:21:36* But *02:21:41* Now that I've seen like HDR on top of black frame insertion and uh you know these CRT simulation effects, *02:21:41* It's like we really are pretty much there where like the need to get a CRT to experience some of this stuff. *02:21:50* is like diminishing more and more every day. *02:22:02* The one thing that I think and and I was experimenting with this a little bit today and and you can get some you can get a pretty good look on the RetroTink 4K I think *02:22:05* But like PS2, 480i stuff. *02:22:16* Um, something about the way that is on a CRT is just like magic to me. *02:22:19* And I used to not like I used to not like it, but then you know I I learned to embrace what 480i looks like on a CRT with the interlacing. *02:22:26* And something about, I think, just like the way the fields alternate and the the rate of the phosphor decay or something, like somehow just makes it almost look like there is so much more detail than there actually is in the signal. *02:22:34* Like it just, you know, I I've been playing um me and a me and a friend have been playing through Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance 2 on the PS2. *02:22:47* And like those games are so clean. *02:22:56* If I'm not mistaken, they actually are derived from a 720p frame buffer internally before being output at 480i and they look. *02:23:00* On a PVM, they they just they they look so clean. *02:23:10* Just the visuals look so clean, so crisp, so much detail. *02:23:15* And I feel like no matter what de-interlacing technique you use, that feeling doesn't quite *02:23:19* translate when upscaled but that said I was trying like I was trying like an RGB uh slot mask *02:23:27* on um on the RetroTink 4 uh 4K with my PS2 today. *02:23:37* And I'm like, uh well, you know, that's getting there. *02:23:41* That's getting there. *02:23:46* Maybe maybe 480i is pretty good on here too. *02:23:47* That's music to my ears. *02:23:52* So yeah, I mean we we are definitely getting to a point where, you know, I I love playing on my CRTs. *02:23:54* Um *02:24:00* Uh but it it's it's nice to know that we're we we're getting these replacements. *02:24:01* And it's not just because of the technology, it's also just because of *02:24:08* the pure dedication of the people like observing this stuff and um you know making sure that that that it's it's *02:24:12* done in an accurate way and and also the fact that he has sent this out to uh th this prototype out to several people who can provide very useful feedback to make sure that this is hitting uh you know exactly uh *02:24:22* uh you know, on the marks that it needs uh that it needs to to to be. *02:24:36* Yeah, I actually I really, really respect that. *02:24:41* And I think it's it's really cool to see what *02:24:44* you know, each of you is doing with it. *02:24:48* You all seem to have a different approach or angle to it. *02:24:51* Um *02:24:55* I r like John Lenin he tweeted out, I do remember this 'cause it was kinda like that the early buzz of the announcement. *02:24:56* So I was like I was like, What wha what's going on? *02:25:02* And he was like, with the HDR I commit and scanline like I can make my OLED match my *02:25:05* BVM identical. *02:25:13* Just That was that was right after I told him about I'm like, dude, have you tried HDR on this thing? *02:25:15* It's like no I haven't. *02:25:20* With an hour later he was I saw that tweet. *02:25:24* It was like, holy crap, you're right. *02:25:27* This looks amazing. *02:25:29* Um but but but like also like you know like *02:25:31* Uh, you know, you've got Firebrand X who is like I I I you know I've been in some some group chats with him as he's been going through this, and uh like like he is just *02:25:35* His process is so painstaking. *02:25:47* Like he and and not only that, he has given so much feedback to Mike that has allowed *02:25:50* uh him to you know optimize how certain aspects of the the scalar work and how the crop function works and stuff like that. *02:25:58* So that's the his feedback has been really valuable too. *02:26:07* the development of the device and and also the development of these profiles that are just like like I I I I I think I told you I got m got my Super Famicom back from Voltar the other day with that that new mod in it and it's like *02:26:10* It almost looks like a digital source with Firebrand X's profile on the 4K. *02:26:25* It's incredible. *02:26:31* And but so he is Firebrand X is doing that pixel precision stuff. *02:26:32* Um, you know *02:26:36* Uh Joe from GameSack is really good at paying attention to like audio details. *02:26:37* John Linneman's been testing like uh retro PC stuff, which you know runs at weird resolutions. *02:26:42* And you know, wobbling pixels and and all these other people are testing all this other stuff. *02:26:48* I know he's been uh messing around with like a lot of PS2 games and stuff. *02:26:53* And I've been just like obsessed with, oh my gosh, I can take these games with bad scaling and I can give them like really good scan lines or I can fix the shimmering. *02:26:56* Like so we've all like had different areas of interest. *02:27:06* And Mike is like *02:27:08* Like I like I don't think he had any clue what anyone would like he didn't request like hey can you I'm saying this to you so you can check out this like he's just let us *02:27:10* freely check what we want and not only check what we want but like share it with people. *02:27:20* Like he's not afraid of us like it's a very like open development. *02:27:26* Yeah, it's been great. *02:27:31* And so um *02:27:33* We've just kind of latched on to what has interested us and he was like, I'm really glad you're checking out all this HDMI, all these modern HDMI systems, because that's something that I know much *02:27:36* less about, just less familiarity with, you know, the games and the the ways that that things might be uh uh output on them or the ways that *02:27:46* you know, some of the re the HD retro compilations might be upscaled and you know, so like uh you know, neck he was telling me yesterday like, hey, I I think I'm gonna tackle *02:27:56* uh some of the suggestions you were making about having like a more granular prescale. *02:28:08* I think that's what gonna be what I'm gonna tackle next. *02:28:13* So, you know, i I I think I think all this all this is going to to lead to a a really polished *02:28:17* uh product when it's actually, you know, uh available uh for for real. *02:28:25* So, you know, and hopefully we're gonna make a a good collection of profiles and you know, like *02:28:31* I just want to make a preview video because I'm really excited about it, you know? *02:28:37* I'm really excited about what I've been able to do with it. *02:28:41* So *02:28:44* It's it's it's like like I I have been so busy wrapping up a a non my life and gaming project uh for like the past *02:28:45* f month and you know I finally wrapped that up about a week ago and like I was like I was working late nights I was working till like you know ten or eleven o'clock at night *02:28:56* And I was still like even that late, I was just like, alright, time to go downstairs and like test stuff on the RetroTink 4K. *02:29:08* Like, like I was like, I was genuinely having as much fun doing that. *02:29:16* as I w or or maybe more than I would if I was like, you know, I should get back to one of the games I was trying to play through. *02:29:22* Like like that was what I wanted to do. *02:29:32* Like I was having fun. *02:29:34* And I was like, every game I was popping in, I was like, oh, I think I yeah, I think I figured it out. *02:29:35* I think I I I got the prescale just right and the scan lines will line up with this and oh man, look at this *02:29:41* Oh, it looks so like it's just it's it's it's probably the most fun I've ever had, like actually like just testing a piece of hardware for making an episode on. *02:29:47* Like it's just it's just it's just been fun. *02:29:57* I lo that's what it should be. *02:30:00* Fun. *02:30:03* It should be fun. *02:30:03* Sometim sometimes it's sometimes it's it's uh it's it's it's you know, you you're you're maybe maybe gru you know, it *02:30:05* As a little grueling going through some things *02:30:12* But the this was just been fun. *02:30:14* Good. *02:30:16* I'm glad to hear it. *02:30:17* Did you do you ever think *02:30:18* That the you know starting this YouTube channel, this you know, you wanted to do this from the idea of *02:30:22* I'll make my own 3D characters in my own little Home Star Runner World. *02:30:30* To I should do a YouTube channel to finding a friend like Corey. *02:30:35* from the backloggery to now you're essentially while you're not a developer and I'm not either you're actively helping develop *02:30:40* th a piece of technology, one tool of many, hopefully, that really I think is gonna help define and shape *02:30:50* playing retro games on real hardware at least, you know, for the next decade, kind of like the Frame Meister has. *02:31:01* Well really, the Frame Meister kinda was it had its decade, you know. *02:31:09* Well there was the OSSE and thing. *02:31:12* But it feels like the Tink 4K, and let's just assume the more 4K kind of falls in a similar camp. *02:31:15* A 4K scalar at the very least. *02:31:21* These are the devices that are gonna help it's gonna shape the way you produce your videos. *02:31:23* It's gonna shape the way we look at and talk about games. *02:31:30* It may shape the way mods are built. *02:31:33* How do you feel? *02:31:35* I mean, from I'm gonna do 3D animation stuff on YouTube to this. *02:31:36* I mean you're how's it feel? *02:31:42* It's very I mean it's it's you know you *02:31:44* uh things never go in exactly the direction that you envision, but when you look back you see the threads that led you there. *02:31:48* Like, you know, I I I remember *02:31:58* I you know, setting up my, you know, Ninja Turtles action figures on the coffee table and taking Polaroid photographs of them. *02:32:03* Of like, you know, I would I'd I'd call it a setup, you know, I'd make I'd make a scene with with the characters posed in a certain way. *02:32:11* Well, I I'm *02:32:17* Effectively, I'm still taking photographs of my toys, right? *02:32:18* Like that's what I'm still doing today, right? *02:32:21* And you know, I remember um *02:32:24* You know, I I I I didn't have anything better than a TV with RF video uh until college. *02:32:27* And but even still, I remember loading up, you know, Super Nintendo games and NES games. *02:32:36* on my TV and getting colored pencils and graph paper and knowing like there's pixels behind there. *02:32:45* Like I I know they're there and I want to *02:32:53* It's it's really fuzzy and hard to see, but I want to translate those pixels to this graph paper as best I can so I can recreate these characters in Mario Paint, right? *02:32:56* So you know you you look at those things and like *02:33:07* Th these are these are the things that you were drawn to so long ago, and even though *02:33:11* the path toward your future didn't always go in the direction that you directly envisioned. *02:33:20* When you look back, you see like *02:33:27* Well, you know, all these things I did as a kid, all these things I did in high school, these things I did in college, uh, they they they prepared me for what I did now and like, you know, kind of *02:33:30* I guess s establishing and and sticking with you know stubbornly sticking with my passions. *02:33:44* I mean, you know, I I I the the I *02:33:52* I gotta be honest, I really struggle with things that don't interest me. *02:33:55* So I don't know if I had a choice to do anything but video game stuff, you know? *02:34:01* Yeah *02:34:06* Oh my goodness gracious. *02:34:14* Well *02:34:15* I think that does it for this episode of the video. *02:34:17* I mean yeah, that more does it. *02:34:19* I warned you. *02:34:20* I warned you that I was gonna ramble and this was gonna go much longer than you're used to *02:34:21* I love it. *02:34:27* I could keep talking about it and I I would love, you know, to talk again someday. *02:34:27* But I think that wraps it up for us. *02:34:32* So *02:34:34* You know, Mark, try. *02:34:35* I my brain's confused sometimes because like your name is Mark, but your videos, it's always sh we talked about this before the show. *02:34:36* So my Yeah, it's just you know, it's it's what I've gotten stuck with on the internet. *02:34:42* You know, yeah *02:34:45* Well, Mark, uh, where can the people find you online and check out all your work? *02:34:47* Obviously, my life in gaming. *02:34:52* You pop up on Digital Foundry every now and then. *02:34:54* You're over there with John. *02:34:56* Yeah, that's right. *02:34:57* Yeah, yeah. *02:34:58* We've we've done some collaborations with Digital Foundry. *02:34:58* Um, you know, I I really I've been enjoying doing the the the Let's Plays with John Linneman. *02:35:01* Those have been fun. *02:35:07* We just released one on Sonic 06 *02:35:08* I watched that today. *02:35:10* Uh what did what was this what did Sonic say? *02:35:11* Uh it's no use It's no use *02:35:15* It's no use! *02:35:18* Yeah, that was uh you know, I to be honest, we recorded that back in like March, uh and uh didn't actually get it edited until very recently. *02:35:21* Uh so when I was going through that, I was like, man, like I I forgot how funny this actually was. *02:35:30* It was actually pretty funny. *02:35:38* But yeah, so yeah, sometimes appear on Digital Foundry. *02:35:39* Um *02:35:43* Uh you know, in addition to to my life and gaming, you know, we we do our videos when when they come out. *02:35:44* We sh live stream every uh uh s uh Sunday night at 8 p. *02:35:49* m. *02:35:54* Eastern time until about 11 p. *02:35:54* m. *02:35:57* or so. *02:35:57* And uh the back loggery, we uh I stream on the backloggery channel, uh Twitch channel, back uh twitch. *02:35:58* tv slash backloggery at 7 p. *02:36:06* m. *02:36:09* Eastern on Mondays until about eleven PM or so. *02:36:10* And uh yeah, since as I said, I'm I'm not really on social media, that's uh it's about *02:36:14* That's about where I am. *02:36:20* That's good for me, man. *02:36:22* I love it. *02:36:23* I love to see it. *02:36:24* So everyone go check out My Life in Gaming, for sure. *02:36:25* Like if I've I've been watching like I said at the top for nine years, going on 10, baby. *02:36:29* And uh every video is a treat, man. *02:36:34* When it pops up, I'm like, yeah, let's go. *02:36:36* And they're always like long and meaty and they're so interesting. *02:36:38* Like even the most recent one up there is uh that was a quarry video for sure because *02:36:42* The V the Vature AR glasses or XR or whatever they call them. *02:36:46* The thumbnail? *02:36:51* Hilarious. *02:36:52* Oh yeah. *02:36:53* Oh yeah. *02:36:53* Which we normally don't do thumbnails like that, but we're like, let's just do it for this one. *02:36:54* It's too funny not to *02:36:57* I mean the the bet the best thing about that whole video was like he hated that video and it like I was like dude it's funny I think this is really entertaining *02:36:59* I didn't I enjoyed watching it. *02:37:09* He he just he was really annoyed with the with it. *02:37:11* He was just like it's not interesting. *02:37:13* People aren't gonna like this. *02:37:16* This isn't gonna be what they're expecting after it's been such a long gap in videos. *02:37:18* But like I I thought it was very well made, very entertaining, and hey, we got some *02:37:22* top top class emotes for our Discord and for our YouTube streams stream chat. *02:37:28* Like we got some great emote like that's the best thing that came out of is *02:37:36* There's all the emotes we got out. *02:37:40* So, you know, it's um and and I d I I I I do promise that *02:37:42* Uh the the from now to the end of the year and going forward, it's you know, you know, sure th there might be some gaps between videos, but it's not gonna be like it has been this year. *02:37:48* We're we're we're turning things around. *02:37:57* Like I said, I got my big project uh out of the way *02:37:58* uh and it's it's it's kind of it's it's it's been retro tink 4k all the time uh for for me until that video is out so *02:38:01* And then it's gonna be back to Analog Frontiers. *02:38:10* I can't wait to watch both of those. *02:38:12* You know, maybe uh analog Frontiers will be out close to when the Tink 4K actually launches, maybe. *02:38:15* Yeah. *02:38:20* That that that's that's that's my that's the goal *02:38:20* All right. *02:38:23* I believe in you. *02:38:24* Absolutely. *02:38:25* For me, if you'd like, you could check out my other podcast, Chapter Select, where Logan, Moore, and myself, we we bounce back and forth between a series of games. *02:38:26* Exploring their evolution design and legacy. *02:38:35* Right now season six is going on, and we've got the Pokemon, mainline Pokemon games, which I really hadn't played all but two of them. *02:38:37* So it's been a very interesting season to explore. *02:38:45* I think this upcoming Wednesday will be the next episode, which is going to be Pokemon Violet and Scarlet. *02:38:49* So you can check that out. *02:38:54* Wherever you listen to podcasts or here on YouTube, there's also Super Chapter Select, which gets you access to longer episodes and exclusive bonus content like our battle series. *02:38:56* We're battling in every Pokemon game along the way as well. *02:39:06* So you could just sign you can check that out over at listeningwithsuperpower. *02:39:09* com. *02:39:12* It's just two and a half bucks a month or twenty dollars a year. *02:39:13* You can check that out *02:39:16* But also, you know, this episode we're recording this at the end of August, so September is right around the corner. *02:39:17* And September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month. *02:39:23* Um and the find folks over at Relay FM, a podcast network, they every year, you know, get their community together to raise money for Saint Jude to help uh and childhood cancer and research and development over there. *02:39:26* And so as a part of that this year, I'm gonna be streaming *02:39:37* every Thursday night at 7 p. *02:39:40* m. *02:39:43* Eastern, um all the Mario Kart games, gonna ch work my way through every course, every cup, every track. *02:39:43* through every Thursday night, chip my way through those games to help raise money for St. *02:39:50* Jude and the fine folks over there. *02:39:55* So if you could come check that out. *02:39:56* that would mean the world to me and I imagine the kids as well. *02:39:58* But thank you so much, Mark, for joining me this evening. *02:40:03* Until next time, folks, adios. *02:40:06* That was an absolute treat. *02:40:09* I felt like I got my own little private episode of my life in gaming there. *02:40:12* So good. *02:40:20*