# [[MFP05 - “The Archie Comic Cinematic Universe” with Michael Ruiz]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- Hey everybody, welcome back to the Max Frequency podcast. *00:00* It feels weird for me because I just recorded a show last night, but joining me this time, whenever you're hearing this episode. *00:06* my extremely good friend. *00:13* I've traveled all the way to Chicago for his wedding, Michael Ruiz. *00:15* Hey, what's up? *00:20* Mike. *00:22* Mike. *00:23* It's it's n this you're the first one out of our our core group, our our Model Citizens Media Discord that still lives even though Model Citizen Media has been dead for years. *00:25* You're the first one I've had on the show. *00:37* Re really? *00:39* Mm-hmm. *00:40* I haven't had Logan. *00:41* I haven't had Mario. *00:42* I'm not gonna talk to Grant. *00:43* What am I gonna talk to Grant about Catherine? *00:44* It's not gonna be a good conversation. *00:46* There's plenty of things to talk about, Grant *00:48* Skateboarding leagues. *00:52* Skateboarding. *00:53* Yeah, I mean it's awesome. *00:55* I know of course. *01:00* I my the reason I haven't invited *01:01* I hadn't invited any of you on up to this point was I was I was trying to not like lean on the old l reliable in the sense of I know I could hit any of you up at any time. *01:06* I want to spread my wings a little bit. *01:16* But *01:18* Definitely. *01:19* Circumstances brought us together. *01:20* The teenage Starcross lovers, like media, has aligned. *01:22* And you and I enjoy a lot of the same stuff. *01:28* And so *01:31* I mean, we'll talk about Riverdale, our favorite TV show, that we've actually watched together in person before. *01:32* Yeah, yeah, when we were at Logan's was that two years ago or was that a year ago? *01:39* Two years ago. *01:44* It wasn't this it wasn't this past one. *01:46* Two years ago. *01:48* And then we'll talk about Emily's Away three as well, because we both got to play it. *01:48* But *01:54* The first thing I want to talk to you about is you totally ripped me off. *01:56* You took my idea, you copied me, you said this Max kid, he's doing something right. *02:00* First thing you did was you c you left dual shockers. *02:06* You were like, Max was right. *02:09* He should I should have left a long time ago. *02:10* Yeah. *02:13* And then uh you started your own website. *02:13* But you started it with someone else. *02:16* You're you're not totally like me. *02:17* I yeah, so I mean we don't have to talk about the whole dual shockers thing. *02:21* I like *02:27* Everyone. *02:28* Yeah, I feel like people know that story, you know. *02:30* If you if you want to know about dual shockers, go Google it. *02:33* They were bought, ownership changed, things changed. *02:37* I left a long time before that. *02:40* Um In a way in a way I was I was gone too. *02:43* Like during that time, I was just doing a little bit of work here and there for them w because I was just someone who they can kind of rely on to get some stuff done. *02:48* So I would I would do some *02:58* Reviews. *03:00* I don't I didn't really do news. *03:01* I did some like features here and there. *03:03* I think like the last feature I did for them was actually skateboarding related. *03:04* I'm pretty sure. *03:09* I um was it your big *03:09* Like how gaming got you back into skateboarding one? *03:12* Yeah, I believe that's like the last thing I wrote for them. *03:14* Cause the last review I think I did for them. *03:16* Oh wait, no, the last review was not Ghost of Tsushima. *03:19* I thought it might have been, but I might have done some other ones. *03:22* Um but yeah, I was just kinda doing some stuff for them and I was planning on coming back, actually. *03:25* Like uh that was like something that was getting talked around about and then uh things happened and *03:32* It went sideways. *03:38* Yeah, and then I and then I kinda just left and I kinda uh I don't I don't wanna say like left like the you know *03:40* I kinda like stopped living my dream of trying to become like a writer in the gaming space kind of thing. *03:48* Dude, been there. *03:54* Remember when I killed Model Citizens Media? *03:56* Yeah. *03:58* What do you think I was going through? *03:59* Yeah, and and you know, I you know, there was a time when we went to PAX together and I feel like *04:01* That was I I don't know if you felt the same way, but I feel like I connected with you a lot more during that time. *04:07* Like I think that was a time where I bonded with you a lot more because *04:12* Uh no no offense to no offense to the people that we were with, but you were like one of the only married people that I knew there. *04:16* And I was having a really hard time *04:24* Um, like being away from Amber and stuff and wasn't that not it was only a it wasn't long after you got married, right? *04:27* Yeah, I think there was like a few *04:36* 'Cause you got married it was sno it was snowing. *04:38* It was a few months yeah, it was a few months after. *04:40* Yeah. *04:42* Because I got married in November. *04:43* November and Pax was in that was March. *04:44* So *04:47* And so you were someone I could talk to about that because I mean you kinda you you understood that. *04:49* Yeah. *04:54* And so um there's like stuff like that and just *04:54* A few things here and there that like I just it just wasn't hitting the same way that I liked it. *04:58* I still like writing about video games. *05:04* I love *05:06* video games. *05:07* I al I always will. *05:07* Um but I also think it took me away from things other things that I love, you know. *05:09* Like I love music. *05:14* You know before I really loved video games like *05:15* music was what really like how I was able to express myself personally. *05:19* And with that dream of trying to become a writer in video games *05:24* I kinda left some of those other things behind and that was a big one that I left behind. *05:29* And same thing with like, you know, recently I've been getting into skating. *05:33* And we we even went skating together and I totally busted my hip and elbow. *05:37* We did. *05:42* Yeah, we went we we went skating when we went over to uh Logan's. *05:43* uh this past year when we were do it was that for game awards, right? *05:47* Yeah. *05:51* Every year, yeah. *05:55* And uh so I got back into skating and that was such like a big that was kind of like *05:56* almost like a a life realization of like, you know, there's other things other than video games and stuff like that and I gotta get more out there and do more things. *06:01* And that was such like a *06:10* a life-changing moment for me even at such uh I'm gonna say old age. *06:12* I'm only 29. *06:16* But uh I'm gonna be I'm gonna be 30 in a little bit. *06:18* But even at this age, you know, where you've been on this earth for over two decades and you could still learn *06:21* New things about yourself and what you really love and what you really want to do with your life. *06:29* Like that was a big moment for me. *06:34* So and I lost 40 pounds in the process. *06:37* So that was *06:39* Crazy. *06:41* And like uh it kind of reminds me of my buddy Josh, who was actually the best man at my wedding. *06:42* He um *06:49* He used to drink like Dr. *06:51* Pepper all the time, you know, big Dr. *06:53* Pepper guy. *06:55* And then he stopped drinking soda and *06:56* Uh basically the only liquids he consumes now is water and then alcohol if he's at a party. *07:00* Like that's just kinda you know that's it. *07:04* But he lost *07:07* twenty between twenty and thirty pounds just by switching to water. *07:08* And that that wasn't with exercise. *07:12* It's crazy when you hear like just doing this *07:14* Yeah. *07:17* Like one activity or one life change and it completely changed. *07:18* It was definitely it was definitely several things. *07:22* Like skating was my way to be active. *07:24* And it's not like skating does like a ton, but it it lets you sweat for sure. *07:26* And at that time I was like two hundred forty pounds, so me doing any activity that's going to *07:30* Make me sweat. *07:36* You're skating, you're pushing all of that weight. *07:37* Like skate you you have to push and move it. *07:39* It doesn't just you're not lifting weight, you're actually moving all of the weight. *07:41* All of it, yeah. *07:45* And I'm also trying to do like these tricks that I thought I could do and you cause at uh a while back when I used to escape, you know, when I was a teenager, like I would do some of the tricks and I was trying to do those 'cause I thought I could and *07:46* it turns out it's harder when you weigh like literally a hundred pounds more. *07:58* So it's a combination of that. *08:03* And then also just like, you know, I I do drink a little bit more than I was n before, but *08:06* I did like I used to drink like three beers a day. *08:12* Uh and just like eat like garbage. *08:16* And all I really did was *08:20* Just change it to one beer a day and then uh still eat the same garbage, but not eat as much of the garbage. *08:22* So you know, instead of eating like a bag of chips and like *08:32* a hamburger like two hamburgers and like fries or whatever, I'll eat like a handful of chips, one hamburger *08:36* in like a small fry but then also putting in skating and stuff like that too with it. *08:45* Um you like totally changed *08:51* everything and how I like approach like my diet and like it's crazy how much that one activity like completely changed how I live my life, you know? *08:54* Whereas like video games in a way *09:05* was like almost like a negative, you know, and like the whole process of, you know, writing and all that stuff because I was so concentrated on it. *09:07* and trying to make it in that space, I wasn't paying attention to myself, you know, and like being good to my body and stuff like that. *09:16* And so finding skateboarding again and doing that over again. *09:24* was such like a big life improvement and why like that piece that I wrote for that is like one of my favorite because it actually means something to me. *09:27* Whereas like writing s like writing a yick *09:35* Or Y2K review makes me angry, you know? *09:38* So I I mean I remember reading it and telling you it's it definitely is one of your best pieces you've ever written. *09:42* And it's because *09:48* It's personal. *09:50* And th that I think in general in especially kind of press news coverage when *09:51* stories, personal stories come through it, that's when it's the most powerful. *09:58* Mm whether that's the reporter telling someone else's story or telling their own. *10:02* I I that's when *10:07* the writing's really good. *10:08* And I it seriously, is that's a great piece. *10:10* It also just reminds me like it's fresh in my head 'cause I just talked about this, you know, last night when we were recording this, but *10:14* The the short version was when I did wiki writing early on, I was giving it all of my attention and time and I definitely *10:22* ignored family and at the time my girlfriend, which turned out to, you know, be Abby, my wife, event like I w took time away from them to write a how to page for *10:32* whatever, you know, some silly video game collectible that means nothing in the grand scheme of things, just so it could get good clicks on *10:46* uh Google, you know, it could trend. *10:54* And I think at some point, unless it unless it's your nine to five and it actually is a nine to five, you really gotta gotta sit down and be like *10:57* Do Google trends really matter or does my health matter or do my relationships you know? *11:07* And I think you all have to have everyone has to have this their uh come to Jesus kind of moment of *11:13* Eh, maybe I don't d need to or want to be a video game writer forever, especially if it involves moving across the country and *11:20* putting in this kind of work, I don't know. *11:31* Yeah. *11:33* And that and you know, that's not to disparage anyone who wants to do that. *11:33* Like I don't want to disparage it. *11:37* I don't want to say like it's a it was a bad experience or anything because you know what? *11:38* Like some of the experiences I had *11:41* like with dual shockers and and doing the stuff that I did are some of the best moments like in my life. *11:44* I've got to interview like wrestlers. *11:49* Like my favorite wrestlers of all like *11:52* uh like currently like I got to interview Becky Lynch. *11:55* That's like such a crazy moment, you know. *11:57* I wouldn't have met like you guys. *12:00* I wouldn't have met you or Logan or Mario or or Grant if like I hadn't *12:02* been in this space. *12:07* So like I'm so thankful for everything that, you know, video games and that whole experience has done for me in terms of like building relationships. *12:08* and and all that stuff. *12:19* I've had such a great time, but I'm with you in that like you know, I put aside a lot of stuff and, you know, looking back *12:21* I'm I'm not like super happy about that kind of stuff. *12:29* Like the like putting aside family and you know and and luckily I had people who I was surrounded with, like my wife and, you know, friends and stuff who really understood like I was really *12:33* like putting myself out there to to try and do this for a living. *12:44* So everyone was supportive and it was awesome, you know. *12:47* Luckily I had that kind of support group. *12:51* But some people don't. *12:53* And that and that, you know I I just don't want to disparage anyone who wants to do that 'cause it's it's different for every it's different for every person. *12:55* I Yeah. *13:02* If I hadn't met Abby in college, who knows where I'd be. *13:03* Like Abby changed that course and I am incredibly thankful for it. *13:08* She is above and beyond anything I could have done with video games. *13:13* And also, like, to uh PAX. *13:17* I got, you know, I only have been to PAX East 2019. *13:20* PAX was one of the coolest things ever. *13:24* I miss PAX. *13:26* Uh, actually quite a bit. *13:28* Um, you know, COVID really sucked out the last two here and you know, when pat when *13:30* that comes back in person, I w wanna try and go. *13:37* Dude. *13:41* Uh definitely under max frequency, uh, so I can get a press badge, 'cause I can't imagine being regular attention. *13:41* If I can't if yeah, if I can't get a press badge I'm not going. *13:48* I don't know. *13:51* I don't know how anyone stood in those lines. *13:52* It's wild. *13:55* It's not it's not worth it. *13:56* Like, I know that sounds mean, but *13:58* Like if you're going to Pax. *14:01* It definitely sounds entitled. *14:02* Like Yeah, it does. *14:03* On a real level, if you're going to Pax though, you gotta check out the indie stuff. *14:05* Don't *14:10* even mess around with like unless you want to get those like Nintendo pins or whatever that they're handing out. *14:10* Don't do the big stuff. *14:16* Just don't do the big stuff. *14:17* Go see the indie stuff. *14:19* That's what's worth it there. *14:20* And you get to actually talk with people, you get to talk with the developers and you know get to pick their brain on that stuff, even as like a *14:22* You know, even as just a an attendee there, you don't have to be pressed to do that. *14:30* No. *14:34* But like that's that's one of the reasons why like PSX was one of my favorites because all all of them *14:34* uh every developer was like that. *14:42* Except for like some of the real, real big games. *14:44* But like we got like Logan and I got to talk to people from like House Mark or we got to talk to people from like *14:46* You know, like there is people from the show I think that were there that we were able to talk to. *14:52* I I think if I'm remembering correctly, like *14:56* we were able to talk to those people and it was so upfront and so like personal with like the developers and stuff and that's why I love that show. *14:59* It was also like my first big show that I ever went to and it was awesome. *15:06* Yeah that helps too. *15:10* PSX definitely I miss it. *15:12* I w sometimes I wonder if they would ever bring it back, but current Sony doesn't feel like the kind of Sony that would do that. *15:15* Also, it not now definitely. *15:21* Oh well yeah, I'm I'm talking just in general, not current global. *15:24* Yeah. *15:28* But yeah, I think I don't think that's in the cards. *15:29* I wish they would. *15:32* I it was such a cool experience. *15:33* For sure. *15:35* But anyway, going back going back to Bantam Banter and all that stuff. *15:37* So Ricky Freck was someone who we wrote with. *15:42* He was the root *15:46* Well, yeah, he was the review's editor, um, after well, when Logan turned into a managing editor and then he also left to Right. *15:47* But Ricky Ricky became the review's editor at Dual Shockers. *15:56* Right. *16:00* And um *16:00* Obviously he's not with dual shockers anymore. *16:02* Uh he's freelancing and stuff. *16:05* You should check out his stuff. *16:07* I think he writes for game per. *16:08* Um *16:10* But we started doing Bantam Banter because Bantam Banter was um an idea we had at Dual Shockers where we w w had these like really dumb topics we wanted to talk about. *16:11* But we didn't really have an avenue to do it. *16:22* So we wanted to create like a podcast that we can we basically had all the rejected ideas like podcast basically. *16:24* It's like, oh what's a what's a dumb what's a dumb topic you want to talk about? *16:31* Like the podcast of misfit uh topics. *16:35* Yeah, it's just it's whatever. *16:39* And that's the kind of the idea of the show. *16:41* So the name Bantam Banter *16:43* It th obviously it's banter because we're just like talking you know, talking. *16:46* But Bantam comes from a bar from the video game series. *16:50* I don't know if you've ever heard of this video game series, Max, but it's called Yakuza. *16:55* Uh I think I d uh do uh do we still have a Discord channel solely dedicated to that or does it fall under we do. *16:59* Yeah, not surprised though. *17:08* Yeah, 'cause it I was like, maybe it could be an anime game, I guess, so it could fit into that channel that we have, but *17:10* Wait, what's PlayStation Palace? *17:16* Oh, that's right. *17:18* Look. *17:19* See MR. *17:20* What is this one? *17:21* Because we try to clean up our *17:22* channel regularly, but I guess this one slipped through. *17:25* Um so that's where the idea comes from. *17:29* And again like Bantam is a bar in that thing. *17:32* So the idea is to have like these like *17:34* random conversations at like a bar as if it was at a bar. *17:36* Yeah. *17:39* You know? *17:40* Um that's kind of the idea of the podcast. *17:40* Now *17:43* The topics we've hadten are kinda goofy. *17:44* Like we do some really goofy ones. *17:47* Some of them are like serious ish, but *17:49* Not so serious. *17:53* If you want to, you could go check check out the website, www. *17:54* bantombanter. *17:57* com. *17:58* Yeah. *17:59* Yeah, right now it's just podcasts, but I do want to write um *18:01* I would like to write some stuff, but you know, the first few episodes were like just what it is. *18:05* The the very first episode that was *18:11* just not like an actual topic thing and that was like, oh this is who we are was called the Pablo Sanchez Memorial All Valley Karate Championship *18:13* Which was us making a bracket of all the backyard kids minus Pablo Sanchez, which is why it's a memorial, because in the world that we created, Pablo Sanchez is dead. *18:21* Unfortunate. *18:30* But the idea is that there is a karate tournament because we wanted to pick a sport that *18:39* they haven't played um in karate's a sport. *18:44* So and we kind of randomly generated a um a bracket for every backyard sports kid. *18:47* to uh fight in this tournament and we came up with a winner and it was really fun. *18:55* Um so yeah, there's there's stuff like that. *19:00* We did one making a Tony Hawk Pro Skater game with iconic game characters and songs. *19:03* Um *19:08* The Disney's extreme skate adventure. *19:09* Basically. *19:12* The latest one we did, um, I'm guessing this is gonna be coming out pretty soon is we did like a *19:13* Kind of like a survivor simulator thing, um with Xbox characters. *19:19* So we have like a bunch of Xbox characters and like uh *19:24* Like the Survivor the Reality show. *19:27* We put a bunch of Xbox characters in there and it's like a simulator thing and we kind of just talk over it. *19:30* Give like they kind of give us general ideas of like *19:35* what happens with each contestant, but we make we kinda basically make up stories for like what happened and stuff. *19:38* So it's it's just really fun and goofy and we both have like a really good time. *19:44* Are we now are we doing this *19:48* For like just for fun or are we doing this like to like make it? *19:52* I feel like we're doing it more for fun. *19:55* I don't think we're doing anything that is going to be getting like, you know, clicks of getting on Google. *19:57* But we're enjoying ourselves and we're just having like a good time and that's *20:02* all we really kind of want from it if it you know, and this goes back to, you know, making the art my own site or whatever with Ricky and stuff like that and *20:05* You know, I'm at this moment, at this point, if it if anything like clicks with that site, I'll that's great. *20:14* I love that. *20:22* That's that's that would be so cool. *20:23* And if and anyone who has ever whoever reads or ends up listening to stuff on there, amazing. *20:25* But at this moment I'm just *20:32* here to do it because uh one old habits die hard and uh I'll never ever not *20:34* podcaster or write. *20:42* You just gotta be like me and just cold blooded murder it and then stop for two years. *20:44* Yeah. *20:49* And the second thing is that, you know, I just really like writing a lot and *20:50* whether I'm bad or good at s like or whether I like the stuff that I write or not, you know, I still enjoy the process of it and and thinking in that mindset. *20:53* And uh it's just now I don't have a deadline for things, so I kinda'm just gonna write whenever I want to. *21:05* Uh which is nice, which is great. *21:11* Feels so good. *21:13* Yeah. *21:14* The only deadline's my own. *21:15* Yeah. *21:17* So like I'm enjoying it. *21:18* I'm having a really good time, you know. *21:20* Um *21:22* It was kind of hard to get up and running at first, but once it has, you know, we we had like one speed bump last week. *21:23* Like the episode six was supposed to come out last week, but *21:29* Uh one. *21:33* Um there's just a lot of stuff going on personally and at that time for me, but um *21:35* But otherwise it was just like we didn't have time to edit, so we got episode six out now and seven should be out now too. *21:43* So *21:50* Yeah. *21:51* And it it comes out weekly every Thursday. *21:51* So And that's I yeah, frankly, that's the flexibility that doing this for fun kinda lets you have. *21:54* I mean, this show kinda comes out. *22:00* The goal in general for this you know, this show is just three times a month. *22:02* Uh, but it can come out whenever, like in within that month. *22:07* And I mean, ideally I I try to have a quick turnaround from recording just so I don't leave people high and dry that I s yeah spend a couple hours recording with, but I have a whole month to play with and it gives me like *22:11* a liberating flexibility that when a weekly show doesn't because you have to be strict and tight with that and *22:25* You know, I did millennial gaming speak for two two and a half years. *22:33* Weekly show. *22:38* Awesome, but I don't need that in my life right now. *22:39* Yeah. *22:43* And like like I said, we're doing a weekly show and it's not terrible because one, we're not looking at current events, we're just kind of *22:43* Yeah. *22:53* You know, talking about random stuff, you know? *22:54* So we can kind of record whatever day of the week, it doesn't matter. *22:56* And two like *23:00* You know, I I have a day job and I usually get off of it uh at like 1 PM and Ricky is freelancing, so he kind of has a bit more of a flexible schedule too. *23:02* He does and doesn't *23:13* Um but we could kind of just record whenever so we we do and and that's been great. *23:15* And it also helps that we're both on central time. *23:23* So we never have to be like in the same time zone? *23:27* No. *23:29* Yeah. *23:30* Yeah, exactly. *23:31* 'Cause like even, you know, between *23:32* When we were doing Model Citizens, we were going through two different time zones 'cause Mario and I both live in Illinois. *23:35* Yeah. *23:41* And then you guys live uh in Eastern Time. *23:41* So *23:45* Usually we'd have to do things. *23:46* We'd have to plan out things a little bit more. *23:47* But you know, not that I didn't love podcasting with you guys. *23:49* It is always nice to be like, oh, we're just gonna record it this time and not have to explain time zones *23:54* I had that I had that moment yesterday. *24:00* I set up the time with Michael, the uh Michael Kazwat Kazwara *24:04* I'm gonna get that right someday. *24:10* Set up the time with him last week. *24:12* Uh five PM Pacific time, because he's out closer to the West Coast. *24:15* And then the day before the show, I don't know what it was, but in my brain, it was 5 p. *24:21* m. *24:26* Eastern. *24:26* I was telling Abby, I'm like, I'm gonna be down, I'm gonna be *24:27* recording when you get home from work, uh, you know, please be quiet when you come in or as best you can, you know, just that kind of stuff. *24:30* And then m the few hours before *24:37* I touched base with him and he double checked the time and that's when it re-clicked that I was like, Oh no, it's supposed to be eight o'clock my time, which was better for me anyway, which is probably why we planned it at that time to begin with. *24:40* Uh yeah. *24:51* the the time zones will never not have some s form of a slip up, even though I've been working with people on the West Coast for *24:53* eight to nine years now. *25:01* Like I've just always had peo it I still won't get over it. *25:03* Anyway, I I love it. *25:07* I love seeing 'cause I took a lot of inspiration for Max Frequency from *25:10* stuff I saw in the tech space uh with news. *25:16* There's a podcast network, Relay FM, that I listen to quite a few of their shows and some some blogs that I read *25:20* just typical RSS feed blogs, like actually read them. *25:29* It's great. *25:34* Uh and I saw that coverage specifically for Apple because that's kind of what I'm interested in and *25:35* Gaming doesn't really have that anymore. *25:41* It's it's all turned into this big corporate type publications and writing and and podcasting YouTube and all this stuff. *25:44* And I was I wanted to bring that back or bring it to gaming in that space. *25:53* And that has been fun and liberating and to draw inspiration from other places. *25:58* And part of it is having this really flexible schedule of releasing whatever I want. *26:04* You know, I think like the freedom of like being able to like *26:10* Again, this is getting into some weird stuff, but like, you know, it's kind of nice that I don't have to r, you know, hit a word count, you know. *26:15* Like the I even though I haven't like written anything yet, like the idea that like I could write a news story that maybe that I really care about. *26:23* I wrote one, I could write what I can and they were so short. *26:31* Yeah. *26:35* Like one, I could just write what I care about. *26:35* That's one big thing. *26:37* But also, like, I could put you know, I don't have to feel like *26:39* I I could turn it into more of like, you know, editorializing the news and stuff like that. *26:43* And I could turn it more into my my opinion if I want to, or I could just be like, hey, this thing happened. *26:48* in like a paragraph and then call it a day. *26:52* You know? *26:55* Mm-hmm. *26:55* Um, that kind of stuff is nice. *26:56* But then also with like same thing with like doing like a re a review, which will probably *26:57* we'll get to that later on in the show probably technically with Emily as a way. *27:03* But 'cause you're you're working on that review. *27:07* But um being able to like talk about that stuff and not having to be like, okay, I gotta write *27:10* twenty bajillion words on why this game is good or bad and being all nice about it and whatever. *27:17* Like I I it definitely *27:25* You know, the the entire process of creating Bantam Banter and and and doing it like independently, it feels nice because I don't feel like I don't I don't have that pressure to like do that stuff. *27:28* And hopefully *27:39* For me, that generates like better content because I'm not under pressure on stuff. *27:41* Basically we don't have Logan over our shoulder telling us what we need to do. *27:47* Yeah, because I've definitely done things on a deadline and that is some of the most insane stuff to do. *27:52* Like deadline review I did *27:59* Not great. *28:04* But I'm not sure. *28:05* I volunteered for that too. *28:06* It was hard to do it. *28:07* I was getting so mad 'cause that game gets hard. *28:10* Like it gets pretty challenging and *28:14* Yeah, that that one that one and also there was like a few others. *28:18* The one that kill killed me was Lost Fear. *28:23* I beat that game. *28:27* It's like a 20 hour game. *28:28* I beat it in like two days and wrote a thousand something word review. *28:29* That one killed me. *28:35* That was when I re that's when I realized maybe video game writing. *28:37* Bad. *28:41* I don't know about this guys. *28:42* Or it's not even that the writing process, it's more like how that *28:45* section of the industry works. *28:50* You know what I'm saying? *28:53* Because you have to do it by a certain time and you know, I think some companies have been better about that stuff. *28:54* Gotta get those clips on that stuff. *29:00* But at the same time it's like, well *29:02* If we don't get it at this time, people are not gonna be interested. *29:04* All that stuff. *29:08* Whatever. *29:08* That's that's a whole other thing that we don't need to talk about. *29:09* Yeah, no. *29:13* The way that's above my pay grade. *29:14* Yep. *29:16* Literally. *29:16* And I'm with ya. *29:17* The other thing that you and I *29:20* You and I are actually incredibly c similar, I sp but when it comes to entertainment that we like, um it's it actually sometimes is a little weird, especially um we're I'm cause we're definitely *29:23* very different people. *29:38* We get along. *29:39* We definitely get along, but we are very different. *29:40* Like I I would say you are a much more tidier, organized, put together. *29:45* Well thank you. *29:51* I'm a l I'm a little bit a little bit rougher. *29:53* Go with the flight *29:57* I'm a little bit more yeah, I'm a l I'm definitely way more go with the flow kind of stuff, you know. *29:59* Uh I don't I don't mind things mixing up a little bit or whatever, but it is interesting to know that we have like *30:03* uh a lot of similar interests even though we're so like we're pretty different. *30:11* So and one of our great loves. *30:16* Riverdale. *30:21* Oh. *30:23* Masterpiece. *30:24* It seriously it is. *30:26* Riverdale *30:28* Is incredible. *30:29* W people will look back and go, how did the CW nail this? *30:30* It is *30:35* So Riverdale, if you do not know, for whatever reason, is a a CW teen drama based off the Archie comics. *30:37* That you would find at the checkout stand in a grocery store. *30:48* So like it's amazing. *30:53* I I wanna say I I don't wanna say recently because this was when I was in the comic books and that was *30:56* At this point probably eight years ago. *31:02* But there was a po a moment where they were making you know, uh Archie *31:05* And uh I think it was Sabrina and some other ones too, like those older comics. *31:10* They were kind of making them a little bit more darker and stuff, like at the time that I was *31:15* Um reading comic books, those were they had this Archie storyline where Archie died or whatever. *31:20* What *31:28* Yeah. *31:29* So there was a lot of people. *31:30* I totally believe that. *31:31* Yeah, that's stuff so that stuff was totally happening and then they were redoing the Sabrina comic books. *31:32* To um Rip Sabrina. *31:39* To to to be more darker and stuff like that. *31:41* Like actual witchcraft. *31:45* Yeah. *31:47* So that was happening during that time and I feel like that's what CW took inspiration from was like more of those stories, like recent *31:48* Archie comics and recent like Sabrina cause Sabrina also had the Netflix show that was supposed to tie in with Riverdale, but then it didn't. *31:57* Yeah, there is because I think it has the same showrunner or something like that. *32:07* It's yeah, they're someone up top is the same, like between the two shows. *32:11* They have they have like in the first season of Sabrina, they mention Riverdale in it. *32:17* Can you imagine this like what would you even call it? *32:22* We have the Marvel Cinematic Universe. *32:25* What would we call it the Riverdale Cinematic Universe? *32:27* I mean it would be the Archie Comic Cinematic Universe. *32:29* Because those are all uh because Sabrina's an Archie comic *32:32* Uh okay. *32:35* I bet that's almost positive it is. *32:37* Because Archie Comics is its own company. *32:40* Oh. *32:43* Same thing. *32:44* But I don't know how it is now because someone could have bought Archie comics and now it's like folded under like Disney or something else. *32:45* Could be who knows. *32:56* The um when like I remember when I first saw this Riverdale concept. *32:58* It was on Netflix, of course. *33:05* And it was uh the initial pitch was, you know, Archie, Jackhead, Veronica, and Betty, like solving crimes. *33:08* And I was like, uh, this sounds kinda cool. *33:17* I like Scooby-Doo. *33:20* I know what I know who these characters are supposed to be. *33:22* Sure, I'll try a live actor. *33:26* Then it turns into this, Archie's hooking up with the teacher, someone gets shot, someone's brother's dead, and the show just doesn't stop. *33:28* They're like, slam that gas pedal to the ground. *33:37* So it definitely draws at least that first season whatever like it definitely draws inspiration from yeah like Scooby-Doo and stuff like that, but it I feel like it's like heavy Twin Peaks vibes. *33:41* And I've never seen Twin Peaks. *33:53* And it it's like Don't kill me, Mario. *33:55* It's it even has like one of the actresses in in there is from Twin Peaks too. *33:59* Like the um *34:05* Betty's mom is like a main character in Twin Peaks. *34:06* Oh really? *34:09* Yeah. *34:11* So there's like definite heavy Twin Peaks influence, especially in that first season, like *34:11* How Betty's or not Betty's um Cheryl's brother like washes up on the shore like drowned or whatever *34:18* Yeah. *34:26* That's lit that's legitimately the same thing that happens in the first episode of Twin Peaks. *34:26* I think Riverdale is is not shy to just straight up take stuff from other properties and spin on it. *34:31* It is Especially when they do like the musical ones. *34:40* Amazing. *34:44* It's so it it's campy and also dead serious. *34:46* The things that like the serial killer genes come on. *34:52* You're there's just and they say this stuff that there's this genetic this *34:59* These chromosomes that like are serial killer specific. *35:05* They say it's so straight-faced and I wonder how many takes it it took them to get that line so straight-faced. *35:09* Because I don't know how you can say that and be so serious. *35:17* They deliver it so *35:21* It I it really is a show whose cast and clearly the people writing it like fully grasp what it is and embrace it wholeheartedly. *35:25* Like they Yeah. *35:33* They understand and I think that makes it all the better because it's a show that *35:35* There's always some new dark crazy killer or new murdering thing in town. *35:39* And then it just *35:46* They sit in a room and they're like, how do we one up ourselves? *35:48* Oh yeah. *35:51* Let's have everyone play Dungeons and Dragons spin-off. *35:53* Um it's what is it? *35:56* Gargoyles uh Griffins and Gargoyles. *35:57* Griffins and Gargoyles. *36:00* Griffins and gargoyles. *36:01* Oh yeah, now there's a cult and everyone's drinking poison and just And there's this there's this drug ring Yeah, Jingle Jangle which is just old pixie sticks. *36:03* And of course, everyone in the show is beautiful. *36:14* Beautiful beautiful. *36:17* Drop that gorgeous. *36:19* Every male character has at least thirty abs. *36:20* Um everyone at these you know, they're in high school, so everyone is supposed to be a high schooler. *36:24* They're clearly in their mid mid twenties and it's just unfathomable *36:30* and the best way possible. *36:35* Th there's at least one excuse to get Archie to take his shirt off every week. *36:37* It's amazing. *36:41* Again, beautiful. *36:43* Underground boxing? *36:44* Like this show goes places. *36:46* Not not only do they give an excuse *36:48* to to take for Archie to take his shirt off, but to also drench him in water. *36:51* Just so much sweat. *36:57* Just oil just gl uh. *36:58* It's ridiculous. *37:01* It is *37:03* Mine is uh, I love it so much. *37:04* So I really watched the first two seasons um rather *37:07* We're we're in season five now, right? *37:14* I believe so, yeah. *37:16* Yeah. *37:17* So I watched the first two seasons pretty aggressively. *37:18* Classic binge just boom boom boom. *37:21* And then I'm I got maybe *37:24* a third of the way through season three and just stopped watching? *37:26* Not because I didn't love it. *37:30* I just kind of was Season three is Griffins and Gargoyles, right? *37:31* Yeah. *37:35* The Gargoyle King specifically. *37:36* Yeah, Gargoyle King. *37:37* And that one actually I think drags on a bit too long. *37:39* That it does. *37:42* That whole plot, just that whole real villain, I suppose, just drags on a bit too much. *37:43* But I'm telling you what, they come back *37:50* Season four. *37:53* Perfection. *37:55* Absolute perfection. *37:56* You know, and I feel like people don't really like didn't really like season four. *37:59* Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's really good. *38:05* The whole storyline of Jughead going to a prep school and like this whole murder uh just *38:08* So first of all, I love teenagers solving murder mysteries. *38:19* I've just I always have. *38:23* It's just a genre I love. *38:24* And they fully lean into it in season four. *38:26* And it's just really *38:29* It's incredible. *38:32* I don't want to spoil it because to me it feels so fresh because I did just finish it up earlier this year. *38:35* I mean season four now has been a year. *38:40* Yeah, it's a year or two out. *38:42* these these stonewall preppies and the the murder dynamic there and the Baxter Brothers novels and all these characters coming together just *38:46* It's so over the top and satisfying and keeps you on your toes and just man, I love that show so much. *38:57* And now season five. *39:07* There I'm caught up, there's a mid season fin a break. *39:10* I did oh my gosh. *39:13* Yeah. *39:16* So I mean I guess kinda to answer your question about like when did I kind of start you know, watching it, I *39:17* I can't honestly I can't remember if I started watching it when it was on TV or if I I I feel like I watched it on Netflix. *39:24* And I watched the first season on Netflix. *39:34* Um that's that's one I'm I'm almost positive I did. *39:37* And then uh the second season, I just like I never like in in a way, like I kind of didn't watch it. *39:42* Like I don't really remember it. *39:50* I know what it is, I remember the storyline for it and everything. *39:52* But I kind of watched that because I think Amber was watching it. *39:56* My wife was watching it. *39:59* My wife's name is Amber, so I'm gonna use the name Amber now. *40:00* But um *40:03* Amber was watching it and so I was like kind of getting glimpses of it there. *40:06* So I was kind of watching it while she was watching it and that's how I kind of watch season two. *40:11* Like I wa and and like *40:16* She was watching it and it was like in the middle of the season was when I started watching season two. *40:19* And I was like, what is this show? *40:25* Like this show is incredible. *40:26* What is happening in this show right now? *40:28* 'Cause like just something bombastic would just happen every single episode. *40:30* And it was so f like so funny *40:34* Because it was so cheesy, but then it was so serious and like really engaging in a way. *40:38* But you talk it you take it just as seriously as they do. *40:43* Yeah. *40:47* You know, they say something like the serial killer genes and you crack up, but then you're also But they're like Oh my gosh, who has the serial killer jeans? *40:47* Oh my god. *40:57* It's this double-edged sword of *40:59* super serious and super corny and it sucks you in. *41:01* Abby Abby does not watch Riverdale. *41:06* She she should start. *41:08* She rolls her eyes so hard. *41:10* She just *41:12* Sh this the corny side of it just doesn't i it pushes her away I think 'cause I'm just like I'm like Archie took his shirt off again and I swear he had three more abs and oh my gosh there was a boxing match to the death *41:13* Like, you know, all this stuff. *41:28* And she's just her eyes roll so hard. *41:29* And I'm like, but Abby, it's so good. *41:32* It's amazing. *41:34* Um, but yeah, so *41:36* Season two, I finished with her. *41:38* And then season three was having on TV. *41:41* So since season three, I've been watching it on TV, actual TV. *41:43* And I've just been cut I watch it ever I would watch it every week, you know, whenever it would come out. *41:48* But you haven't watched the season five mid season finale, you're just trying to hold on to something? *41:55* Yeah, basically. *42:00* Cause like a bunch of shows stopped. *42:02* Like that one I'm watching Superman and Lois also *42:04* Which I think is pretty decent. *42:08* I don't know what it is. *42:09* Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't know what it is about CW shows and me and me liking them. *42:11* It's like *42:15* It's like my it's not like a dark secret or anything, but it's like uh what's the word for it? *42:17* A guilty pleasure, yeah. *42:22* It's just like I just really enjoy the vibe that it gives off. *42:24* Like it's just so *42:28* like corny and teen dramay and I've never really been into like teen drama movie stuff. *42:30* Like I never really liked Twilight I like Harry Potter, you know, but I I've never been like into Twilight or Hunger Games or stuff like that, you know? *42:35* But *42:43* Stuff like Riverdale and and even Superman and Lois and whatever. *42:43* You know, Superman and Lois, they they actually do the Superman character really well. *42:48* Like I think they do a really good job of, you know *42:51* bringing the Clark like part of him out like and not just like the alien Superman, you know? *42:55* Like it's more about Clark and and how he's dealing with *43:03* having two kids, one of them being like superhuman or superhuman as well, all that stuff. *43:07* Like it's it's really well I think it's well done, especially for a CW show. *43:12* Um *43:16* But then also like with Riverdale, it's like it's just so crazy. *43:17* Like it's it and they up the ante like every episode and it's so ridiculous every time and *43:21* You know, as I've g I've I know I said this in the podcast that I was just on, like doing Bantam Banter, the episode eight. *43:27* I just said this, but like as I'm getting older *43:34* the things that I find entertaining are getting like dumber and dumber. *43:37* And not to say that like you know, like I'm not saying like Riverdale's bad or anything, like but it's straight it's really dumb. *43:41* Like there's just dumb things that happen and it's *43:48* There's it's so wild and crazy and I've that's just stuff that's like what I've been getting into now is just like *43:51* into like just weird, dumb, like don't have to think about anything kind of stuff. *43:59* You know, and that fits the mold like perfectly. *44:04* It's easy to get wrapped up in the the world that they make. *44:07* Yeah. *44:10* I swear that writer's room has to be have the most fun. *44:11* Yeah. *44:14* And like it again, and that's another thing that I said too like in that same pocket is like because we were talking about WWE 2K twenty two, what we'd want from it, but *44:15* In the same fashion as like, you know, you you could tell when people are having fun with what they're doing. *44:24* Mm-hmm. *44:31* And and I feel like *44:32* Personally, I mean it's weird and maybe they're not. *44:34* I don't know. *44:37* But feels like they're having a really good time gr telling the story. *44:38* Like everyone involved is like *44:42* Having a great time. *44:43* Now I know some people have left the show and stuff, and I don't know if that's because they were written off or because they weren't liking their time with it or whatever, but you know. *44:44* Like That's the nature of T V. *44:55* Yeah. *44:58* People come, people go. *44:58* Exactly. *45:00* So but it feels like everyone's like I mean *45:01* mostly everyone is still on there minus like, you know, the you know, Archie's dad unfortunately, he passed and everything. *45:04* Yes. *45:10* But other than that, it's like Jughead's dad and um his sister. *45:11* And Jelly Bean? *45:17* Yeah, jelly bean. *45:19* And they're gone. *45:21* Well Jughead's dad's definitely gone. *45:24* Is he? *45:27* I guess. *45:28* Yeah. *45:29* He wrote off. *45:30* Like he was in technical. *45:31* Oh that's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. *45:33* He was in the technical thing. *45:35* Okay. *45:38* Yes, I'm sorry. *45:39* I remember now. *45:40* Yeah, so she so he's off technically and I don't there's I think there's like one other person that I can't remember off the top of my head. *45:41* But um *45:49* Oh, it was uh isn't oh no, she's still on there too. *45:51* Uh Veronica's mom. *45:56* I thought she left. *45:57* Yeah, she she showed up a little bit here in season five. *45:58* Her role has greatly diminished, but she's still around. *46:01* Yeah. *46:05* Hiram's the real star. *46:06* Yeah. *46:08* So it is like everyone's kind of like stayed, which means that one, they're either getting paid super well or they're enjoying what they're doing. *46:08* And hopefully both. *46:17* They should be being paid very well because this show's awesome. *46:19* It's great. *46:22* I I love it. *46:23* I will watch *46:24* every season of that show because, you know, I like to watch things that just make me happy now. *46:26* I don't really care about the quality of the thing. *46:31* It could be terrible. *46:32* It could be the worst movie in the world. *46:33* But as long as I'm like sitting there and like smiling and having good time watching it, dude, I'm down. *46:35* You know? *46:41* Oh yeah *46:42* And you you reminded me the other day, I totally forgot that the CW is making the Powerpuff Girls. *46:43* live action as adults. *46:52* It's essentially the same formula of at least conceptually, of taking a beloved childhood cartoon comic thing. *46:54* And turning him into a mature show. *47:02* Or, you know, a teen mature show, because it it is a CW. *47:05* It's not, you know, HBO or anything. *47:08* Yeah. *47:10* And I cannot wait. *47:11* Did you hear what the premise is? *47:13* It's uh my understanding is it's the Powerpuff girls uh as adults and they've s they've gone their separate ways. *47:15* They don't fight or anything anymore. *47:22* They it *47:24* Uh there's some tension there and now they have to come back together to do something. *47:25* Yeah. *47:31* Is my understanding. *47:31* It sounds like they like *47:32* They like hated that they had that they have powers. *47:36* Right. *47:39* Like that they kind of thing that responsibility was put on them as children. *47:39* Yeah. *47:44* Uh *47:44* That's I mean that sounds so like teen angsty like Yep. *47:45* I just can't wait. *47:51* I can't wait for Blossom to be like a hardcore alcoholic and bubbles to I don't know be so it's just like *47:52* Who's gonna be Mojo Jojo? *48:00* Come on. *48:03* They ha they have him they have him uh whatever, like casted. *48:04* But is it uh uh me So yeah, that's what that's what I would say. *48:09* What is Mojo Jojo gonna look like? *48:16* Is he actually going to be a CG monkey? *48:17* Um *48:20* What is that show where the gorilla comes in that guy's ring? *48:21* Flash had yeah, Gorilla Grod. *48:24* There was Gorilla Grod in Barack, so Yeah. *48:26* Oh my god. *48:31* See? *48:32* What a brilliant part uh what a brilliant part of that show. *48:33* See, and the Powerpuff Girls could have a similar type moment *48:37* as the vibe to I just there's so many wacky villains in Powerpuff Girls too. *48:42* Fuzzy fuzzy lumpkins, the kid that eats the the paste *48:47* The beast kid. *48:52* Yeah, I don't yeah, I don't remember way he turns into like a giant thing of glue or whatever. *48:53* Mm-hmm. *48:57* Like a kaiju glue monster. *48:58* There's the one um *49:00* The girl with the oh it's is it Medusa who has like the the snake? *49:03* Who's like Medusa? *49:07* Yeah, there's a ton of cool I mean, honestly, those villains are kind of cool. *49:09* They they are cool, and I can't *49:14* Uh Abby I I reminded Abby of this show's existence the other day and she said no they're gonna ruin it. *49:16* And I said no, they're gonna make it better. *49:22* Yeah. *49:24* I hope they bring in the Justice Friends, like they had those shorts. *49:25* Where it was like the Justice Friends and it was uh the Krunk and like the pr it's like purple Hulk pre basically. *49:28* Yeah. *49:36* Van Van Helen or I don't know, it's like a n name for Van Halen. *49:37* There's like a wordplay on that. *49:42* Yeah, I remember those characters. *49:44* I hope they bring them in there too. *49:46* Yeah. *49:48* It's uh I can't wait for this. *49:48* I'm I hope it doesn't flop uh but like apparently Sabrina did in the Sun and *49:51* sense of being cancelled because I would like to see more of these S Sabrina wasn't on CW though. *49:57* That Sabrina was on Netflix. *50:01* Like that was I mean that's a kind of a different audience, yeah? *50:03* I mean knowing yeah. *50:07* Yeah, it's just it's the same they were supposed to be connected and like same people essentially behind them, but um obviously one is still here and one is not. *50:09* Look, man, if they can revive charmed *50:20* And it's still go, then they could probably do something with Power Buff Girls. *50:24* That's true. *50:29* I hope so. *50:30* I'm I don't know if they have a date announced, but they did just reveal a poster. *50:31* Yeah. *50:35* With what they look. *50:36* Yeah, with what they l yeah. *50:37* So it has to be coming pretty soon. *50:38* I hope so. *50:40* This year. *50:41* Could you imagine? *50:43* Riverdale and Powerpuff Girls at the same time. *50:44* Dude. *50:47* I'd lose my mind. *50:48* What a time. *50:49* What a time. *50:50* The *50:52* Really kind of the other big thing I wanted to talk to you about ties in with Teen Angst and Definitely incredible writing. *50:53* And not so much serial killer uh genes, but you and I both uh extremely fortunate to play. *51:04* Emily is away three or less than three if you're being technical. *51:14* Uh before release, uh as of recording, uh it comes out tomorrow. *51:18* By the time you hear this, the game will be out on Steam. *51:22* And *51:26* I assume other places. *51:27* I don't I Steam is where I've been playing it, so I know it's gonna be there. *51:29* Uh definitely on PC and Mac, because I've been playing it on Mac and you've been playing it on PC. *51:33* But you you have a b uh you have a better relationship with Kyle than I do because you've talked to him more. *51:38* You've just interacted with him more. *51:47* I guess I do, yeah. *51:49* I mean it's not like I te I know him or anything like on a personal level, but But you've you've interviewed him at least two times, right? *51:50* I think I've only interviewed him once. *51:59* I thought it was twice. *52:01* I'm either way, we both played Emily's Way Three at PAX actually, that PAX that we went to together, uh in the indie booth. *52:02* So that's a so that's a little different. *52:09* Oh true. *52:13* You you went to the indie booth. *52:13* I went to the booth. *52:15* You played it in a hotel. *52:16* Yeah, I had a preview like scheduled for him, but uh his booth wasn't going to be out until that day that you saw it. *52:18* So *52:26* Uh him uh he brought his laptop to the hotel lobby that he was running the game on, like on the at the booth. *52:27* Yeah. *52:34* And I just played I just played the preview build like in the hotel lobby with him. *52:35* And then we were just *52:39* You know, and then we were just talking or whatever and then I did that preview and I had you know, really good things to say about it because I like you know *52:41* The first two Emily uh is away games, like they're like two of my favorite games. *52:50* Like I I think in previous discussions, like when you and I have talked about video games or any podcasts that have been on video games, like *52:55* I do think like gameplay is always like key and that's like the thing that I look at the most. *53:03* And with this kind of game, like obviously gameplay is not like the big thing, it's the story that's driving it. *53:09* But the narrative in this game and the writing for it and everything is so incredible. *53:15* Like it perfectly fits *53:21* Like any era that it's doing, and this counts for this third game, it like perfectly gets it. *53:24* Like T and *53:30* It's it's incredible. *53:32* Honestly, you're you're probably gonna help me like flesh out some of my ideas and talking points that I wanna do in my write up about this game. *53:34* But it's like *53:42* It's like rose-colored glasses. *53:45* Yeah, rose tinted, I suppose is the phrase, but just so Emily's Away 3 takes place in 2008. *53:47* Maybe I should say Emily is Away is a series of games. *53:56* Uh a uh instant messaging narrative decision type game. *54:00* Uh the first one was AIM. *54:04* It it it mirrors AIM, the first two games, and then this new one, Face Nook, AIM is dead, 2008. *54:06* Welcome to Face Nook. *54:15* That idea. *54:16* But basically it's it's *54:17* C kids, seniors in high school, their relationships and interacting through instant messaging and browsing profiles and all this stuff. *54:19* a and Kyle just gets that time period. *54:27* It is exactly what I remember. *54:30* Well, so Kyle, he's like, my age. *54:33* He's around my age. *54:37* I think he might be a little older. *54:38* So he like *54:40* live through that time period. *54:42* Like for me, like Emily's away like this one, Emily's away three is the exact time I graduated high school in two thousand nine. *54:44* So it's like *54:53* This is very much I know this. *54:54* You know, the AIM stuff I w I had AIM, like and I used it for sure. *54:57* But I was definitely younger. *55:02* I wasn't going to college or anything like that when I was using AIM. *55:04* I was using *55:06* You know, I was in middle school going into high school when I was using AIM. *55:08* Yeah. *55:12* So and like a little bit into high school I had it, but I wasn't graduating high school *55:12* using aim. *55:17* By that time, you know, as Emily's away three says, AIM was dead. *55:17* Like no one was really using it. *55:21* Rip AIM. *55:23* So and and like the language that they use and stuff *55:24* Like in in Emily's Away 3, like how people I like uh so to put a little bit of context in what I'm about to say, like the um there there was a moment in the game with the dialogue *55:30* that was something that and it's such a little thing, you know? *55:43* Like it it wasn't like this like outwardly like, oh this is totally 2009 or whatever. *55:47* But um something I used to say uh to be like kind of joking and stuff like that when someone would like say, Oh you're this way or whatever, like oh you do uh what are you doing this? *55:53* Why are you doing this or whatever *56:04* I would jokingly say like oh you don't know me. *56:06* Like I would do that as like a joke and that was like a running joke with like my friends and stuff. *56:08* It's just a dumb thing that I would say. *56:13* And they had that dialogue option in this game. *56:16* I'm like, dude, this game's like basically me like talking *56:19* like some of the dialogue choices and I had to send that to my friend like dude this game knows me 'cause my the friend that I was uh texting that picture to we played all through Emily is away one and two together like a bunch of times. *56:25* Yeah. *56:37* We would just put it up on a TV screen and play it together. *56:38* So um it was fun to see like *56:41* kinda being able to see myself personified like within a text form. *56:45* And it was such like a little thing, you know. *56:51* And there's like other things too. *56:52* Like that was the one that stood out to me. *56:54* I was like, this is so weird. *56:56* Like *56:58* This is definitely like me talking in this game. *56:58* Like it's not even you know So I don't know. *57:01* Really does feel that way. *57:04* Do you uh *57:06* I so for both of us, this is the first n new Emily is away game that we've played uh after being married. *57:08* Yeah. *57:18* And I actually felt like I could *57:18* And maybe this is also just because I'm an adult now, uh I'm you know, oh my gosh. *57:22* I'm almost a decade. *57:29* You're a decade removed from high school, right? *57:30* Yeah. *57:33* You're definitely over. *57:33* Yeah. *57:34* You're over a decade. *57:34* Like, we're very far away from high school in that context. *57:35* So like we have perspective and understand how to interact as adults and handle situations. *57:38* And I feel like I approach this game with a pretty level head of knowing how to *57:44* like have conversations and disagreements with Abby and be mature about it on some level and actually understand that *57:51* How to talk to people. *58:01* And honestly, that f you know, m instant messaging or text messages or whatever is usually not the best way. *58:03* So I *58:08* I felt like I was handling things pretty responsibly and things kind of worked out in a way that made sense. *58:09* I this time around *58:16* I wasn't necessarily role-playing an emotional senior in high school. *58:19* And I think that actually reflected in my out w actually we both had the same outcome. *58:25* Yeah. *58:31* So yeah, I would s I would s I would say um in previous games I tr I you know, I try to *58:32* I don't know, I just felt like what I I wanted to say the thing because this is kind of how I am, like I kind of wanted to say the thing that would, you know, be the nicest thing to say to them. *58:42* You know, I wanna like and to be respectful, you know. *58:52* That's how I usually play most any sort of dialogue driven adventure game is like I want to be respectful and I want people *58:55* to like, you know, respect me as well and not hate me. *59:03* So I've done that, but so in two, when they started introducing Evelyn *59:08* was when things were getting kinda wild because I would do it for both and not realizing that like like I'm not it's hard because it's like *59:14* You say something, and again, this this is like real life too. *59:24* It's like you say something, you don't mean it to be flirting, but then it becomes like a flirting thing, and then you're like *59:27* I don't I d I didn't mean it to be that way. *59:36* And now I'm now trying to date both of them at the same time and all this stuff *59:39* So that like that's why Emily Is Away 2 was like for me so effective with like how it was like doing its story and especially when they started adding *59:46* freaking timers to the the the typing you're like trying to type as fast as I was surprised there were no timers. *59:56* At least any timers either. *01:00:02* In chapter one, there's a part where you are talking to both Evelyn and Emily at the same time. *01:00:06* And I thought it was gonna kick in. *01:00:12* I was like, oh god. *01:00:14* I mean to be fair though, those conversations though were pretty chill. *01:00:17* They weren't like Yeah. *01:00:22* I thought it was gonna escalate though. *01:00:23* Dude, the ones and two were so stressful. *01:00:25* They were is some of the wildest like gameplay, storytelling, like that whole whoop of that and like *01:00:31* How that was executed was like perfect for Emily's way too. *01:00:40* You know? *01:00:46* Mm-hmm. *01:00:46* And you know, and I feel like *01:00:46* For three, they they took sure it may maybe there are those moments and I just don't know because I haven't played it more. *01:00:48* But yeah, there's we definitely could go back and burn it all to the ground *01:00:54* Yeah. *01:00:59* But I really did like that it was a little bit more chill and relaxed and you know it gave you the time to to respond and *01:01:00* You know, I I I did a thing 'cause I was wondering. *01:01:08* I'm like, oh I wonder if this would happen. *01:01:11* Where I I really had to go poop full disclosure. *01:01:13* I had to go poop. *01:01:17* Like real bad. *01:01:18* Real life. *01:01:19* So *01:01:20* I was like, you know what? *01:01:21* I'm gonna take this opportunity. *01:01:22* I wonder if I just like go away for like twenty minutes if What'll happen? *01:01:23* Like what will happen, right? *01:01:29* Because I'm like *01:01:31* It would I I didn't think anything would happen, but I also wouldn't put it like again like I feel like maybe something could have happened, right? *01:01:33* Like maybe *01:01:42* Like, 'cause I was trying to romance Evelyn throughout my game playthrough. *01:01:44* So I was like, maybe Evelyn will get like mad that I'm not responding fast enough or something like that. *01:01:49* Right. *01:01:55* And uh so I did that. *01:01:55* I pooped. *01:01:57* Came back twenty minutes later. *01:01:58* And it was just the same screen, which was kind of anticlimactic, but at the same time it's like, well, you know, when you're in real life, right *01:02:00* Like how many times are is like someone who you're not who you're talking to and you take like twenty minutes to respond, you know, that happens. *01:02:09* But how many people are going to like *01:02:17* respond unless they're like a crazy person after twenty minutes of not respond, like be like, Hey, where are you? *01:02:19* you know? *01:02:25* And like I never like in high school, I don't think I ever really got those interactions. *01:02:27* I was *01:02:32* Like in high school I wasn't like I was like pop I wasn't popular, but I was cool with people, you know? *01:02:34* So *01:02:42* I tried I you know, I always try to kind of role play it in what I think I would have done as a high school student um to get into that mindset of that. *01:02:44* But at the same time every time I think about that I'm like *01:02:54* All I was in high school was just like I was kind of like nerdy. *01:02:57* I hung out with like either I had two sets of friends. *01:03:01* I had *01:03:04* the nerdy friends who I'm still friends to like with with to this day, like they were in my wedding party and everything like that. *01:03:05* And then I had like some of the other friends that *01:03:12* we were a little bit more troublemakery, but I never was like dating girls or anything like that in high school. *01:03:16* I wasn't really doing I didn't drink. *01:03:23* I didn't smoke. *01:03:26* I was actually like pretty *01:03:28* Like way back on a responsible young adult. *01:03:30* Yeah, I did I didn't I didn't really want to drink or do drugs or anything like that. *01:03:33* Um I I just drank one time *01:03:37* in my formative years and then I didn't drink until I was twenty after that. *01:03:41* So um *01:03:46* Yeah, so I try to like go about it that way. *01:03:49* Except with like a little bit of more adult tendencies because I'm just am who I am now and I just forget, you know, to *01:03:52* Stay with the role playing of it. *01:04:00* And so like I'll say uh so then I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna party. *01:04:02* You know? *01:04:06* Cut loose. *01:04:07* I'm gonna cut loose a little bit. *01:04:08* I'm gonna have a drink. *01:04:09* But uh just to make things fun. *01:04:10* See how I go about it. *01:04:13* And uh so I always approach it that way. *01:04:15* And *01:04:18* But I feel like I wasn't so mad with the ending. *01:04:24* I was definitely like *01:04:28* You know, I responded in a way that I would have in real life. *01:04:30* Like I was like, you know I don't want to spoil anything, but No, no. *01:04:34* No no spoilers for the ending here. *01:04:40* I I basically took it like *01:04:42* I'm upset, you know, this sucks, but I get it. *01:04:45* It's fine. *01:04:52* You know, that was like basically my responses to it. *01:04:53* It's fine. *01:04:57* you know, I'm not okay with it. *01:04:58* I'm like basically it was just like I'm not I'm obviously this is a terrible situation. *01:05:00* Like I've I'm I'm not gonna say that this is great, you know *01:05:06* Yeah, I can't pretend to be stoked about this. *01:05:10* But But at the same time I'm not gonna be like, How dare you, you know? *01:05:13* Because even even when I was in high school, I would have never done that. *01:05:17* I would have never been that crazy. *01:05:21* Like how dare you do this? *01:05:23* Like f *01:05:24* f like freak out or whatever. *01:05:25* Yeah. *01:05:27* You know. *01:05:27* I would just be really upset, you know. *01:05:27* Which I think is an appropriate response. *01:05:31* And that's how I went about it. *01:05:33* It's like, dang dude. *01:05:35* This really sucks. *01:05:37* I'm pretty hurt. *01:05:39* Time to go. *01:05:40* I guess it's fine. *01:05:42* Um but then also, you know, learning from past experiences of like *01:05:44* You know, don't I don't want to get into relationship stuff now, but no, no relationship advice. *01:05:49* This is not the relationship advice show. *01:05:56* I did you you talked about your experiment while you were taking a dump of the response time and how nothing happened. *01:05:59* And I honestly think that maybe part of that *01:06:08* uh was removed because the game is more than just a chat simulator, it's really a social network *01:06:13* immersion simulator and there are pages and friends and profiles and things to like link to and then YouTube you know or yeah I think he calls it YouTube just spelt differently. *01:06:21* playlists and there's more to experience this time around and I think Kyle really wanted players to click around and explore and read and interact and read all the Easter eggs and jokes in there and and find links. *01:06:32* I even had um early in the game, you know, you go to your friend's page and you click on a friend and they have friends that you don't have yet. *01:06:46* And uh *01:06:54* I would go to their pages and send friend requests. *01:06:56* Because I was curious how alive like alive this network was, like adding and responding and things like that. *01:06:59* And then a few chapters later, uh, Emily had a friend come in. *01:07:06* I think it was Anna, I think. *01:07:10* Yeah. *01:07:12* She joined *01:07:13* Or or maybe Wait, did Emily have Anna? *01:07:15* No, it wasn't Anna. *01:07:19* It was someone else. *01:07:20* It was another girl had joined. *01:07:21* And I saw *01:07:23* that she was friends with Emily. *01:07:24* So I went ahead and sent a friend request kind of blindly, uh, like I would have done in high school. *01:07:26* Just kind of, hey, you know this person, maybe I'll I know you too. *01:07:32* Oh I never I never friend requested random people that I didn't know. *01:07:37* Now believe me, now I am very much like that and I've done purges over the years to clean up my list. *01:07:42* But back then I I would have. *01:07:49* And it's a game too, so there's no consequence, theoretically. *01:07:50* Absolutely. *01:07:53* But then later, Emily was like, hey, my friend just joined. *01:07:55* Uh maybe you should be friends. *01:08:00* Oh wait, weird. *01:08:03* You've already sent her like it obviously the game knew that I did that and was like, oh snap, am I in trouble for like friending and then it kind of turned into this *01:08:04* side conversation I had with Emily about uh being this this person's friend. *01:08:13* And I I thought that was interesting and dynamic and uh I so I sent all these friend requests early in the game and a couple of them came back to *01:08:18* m some sort of story point. *01:08:27* And I thought that was interesting how early decisions of just how I interact in this fake social network. *01:08:29* ended up impacting the relationships that are kind of the core of the game's narrative. *01:08:35* I thought that was actually really smart. *01:08:40* And it's it gives you time to breathe and soak in all the pages and posts and and things like that. *01:08:42* Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree with you on that. *01:08:50* Like that, you know, the the whole time thing, you know, it's *01:08:52* Y it doesn't give you the time to explore the these social media networks and websites that that, you know, Kyle created for *01:08:58* this fake portal. *01:09:07* Right? *01:09:09* Like there'd be no way you'd be able to play that farmville s like fake Farmville thing or be no way you could check out uh the fake *01:09:10* I mean he posted these things on his on Twitter. *01:09:22* Yeah. *01:09:25* Twitter, like you wouldn't be able to see like the IG the fake IGN website and stuff like that. *01:09:26* EGM. *01:09:30* Everyone's fake website. *01:09:31* Yeah, exactly. *01:09:32* Like you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to to check out that stuff if you were on a timer. *01:09:33* So it's kinda cool that you're able to like really explore each page and like see people's photos and stuff. *01:09:37* Um I wish it was like *01:09:43* There's some things I wish were a little bit more interactive, like I wish those pictures that you get tagged in. *01:09:46* I wish you could set them as like your profile picture. *01:09:52* Mm that was like one like kind of small thing that I wish it would let me do that make it a little bit more personal, like have the *01:09:55* Have you and also like that like the the characters themselves would also then change their profile picture, and maybe th that could have sparked other conversations and stuff like that? *01:10:04* Yeah. *01:10:14* And I I think he did really good with keeping the color like consistent between every character had basically a core color. *01:10:14* And you would see those in those pictures. *01:10:21* And I think that would really come alive if we could have all started changing our pictures. *01:10:23* And it would be different pictures because different decisions lead to different events and different people. *01:10:29* And even if it was like a way of like how they did it in um *01:10:34* the first few emoes away where at the beginning of the chapter you choose a profile picture to put onto your thing, like you choose out of like three of them, and that might spark a conversation with somebody later on in that chapter. *01:10:39* about like you know, like let's say you're trying to you know, get with Evelyn or whatever, but you put a picture of you and Emily together, then they can have that conversation about that conflict that's happening, you know. *01:10:52* Like I think *01:11:05* I thought that would have been kinda neat and interesting. *01:11:07* You know, there's like my my complaints on the game are like *01:11:10* so negligible. *01:11:15* It's like you know, just like little ideas that I wish were maybe like implemented to make it a little bit more like *01:11:17* more immersive, but I think overall like I think it was really well done. *01:11:23* It was everything I expected it to be. *01:11:29* Um *01:11:31* I'm I I in a way I do wish they did have like some of those like timed response is, especially like in the later chapters, because by that time *01:11:32* You've kind of explored it and you've kind of, you know, sent the r friend requests that you need to and that you're going to have. *01:11:43* So it kind of would have been nice to like be able to *01:11:51* Like not nice but like to bring that tension in because I never felt like there was any tension. *01:11:56* It was always like pretty chill. *01:12:01* Well, I felt like I felt like in chapter three or four *01:12:03* There was some tension there dynamically. *01:12:10* Cause there's a part I'm trying to figure out how to dance around this because I don't I don't want to spoil anything. *01:12:12* There *01:12:20* there is a tense you can choose to make this moment as tense as you want. *01:12:21* Like it yes. *01:12:25* Which I think is actually pretty smart and creative of uh how you can respond and you can actually up the tension and I replayed that chapter. *01:12:26* actually two nights ago and I intentionally made really poor decisions to like up the ante and it it did create a tension within me and I thought *01:12:35* Which shows how effective I think the writing and scenarios are because I c I think Kyle really captures what that was like. *01:12:46* I don't know *01:12:55* about you and Amber or, you know, any other girl that you dated, but I've had my fair share of relationships and uh as unhealthy as it sounds like a bulk of that probably was developed over some sort of chat text messaging *01:12:56* interface. *01:13:10* Like that was just a part of growing up in the time that I did and and and you did too and just *01:13:10* There's it feels uh I connected with that in a way. *01:13:20* And you know, when when someone's *01:13:24* Either saying I love you for the first time or breaking up with you and it's over instant messaging, which please don't actually do in real life. *01:13:29* That's it's probably not as hell. *01:13:36* I don't know. *01:13:39* Maybe it I don't know. *01:13:40* Probably wasn't super healthy for me to do that sort of stuff, especially in young adolescence is what I'll say. *01:13:42* Um but seeing those moments play out *01:13:48* you can feel that kind of rise up and you at least I understood where the these characters were coming from in that style of writing and I I connected with that. *01:13:51* It w it reminded me of a lot of stuff, good and bad, you know *01:13:59* Yeah. *01:14:04* I I again like I totally agree with that. *01:14:05* And you know, like I said before, it's like the the Emily's Away 2 did a good job of like that *01:14:08* That one part where you're talking to Emily and Evelyn at the same time and there's like those timers going, you have to respond as fast as possible and stuff. *01:14:15* And you know *01:14:23* in reality that was a way like to kind of almost gamify that ste quote unquote simulation, right? *01:14:25* But, you know, in reality, at least I don't know about the people that like you've talked to and stuff like that, but I have people a little bit more chill than that. *01:14:35* Yeah, they're like I've maybe a few times but like *01:14:44* There's hardly been a time where like I've not talked for like a couple like five minutes if I didn't talk for five minutes or whatever and then like *01:14:48* someone like freak out that I didn't respond quick enough, you know? *01:14:57* Like there I I don't think there's really been a time where that's happened. *01:15:00* That I could think of at least. *01:15:05* You know? *01:15:07* You've probably buried it deep *01:15:08* Deep trauma. *01:15:10* You know, maybe maybe like someone was like I didn't respond and they're like, Okay, well I'll talk to you some other time and they were kinda bummed or something, you know? *01:15:12* Yeah, I mean that like maybe maybe something like that happened, but no one was ever like, Why aren't you listening to me? *01:15:21* You know? *01:15:27* Talk to me right now. *01:15:28* Like talk to me now. *01:15:29* 'Cause that's how that's how that one felt in MS Away too. *01:15:31* I've had that before. *01:15:35* Um unfortunately. *01:15:37* Yeah, unfortunately. *01:15:39* I I had a pretty unhealthy relationship in high school. *01:15:41* Sure. *01:15:44* Um yeah, I mean I didn't have a relationship in high school, so so I wouldn't know. *01:15:45* I've had my my fair share. *01:15:50* Uh both, you know *01:15:53* the other person and myself. *01:15:55* Uh it's it's not all on them. *01:15:56* Uh but I I've definitely have had that before. *01:15:58* So I I yeah. *01:16:01* Yeah. *01:16:03* Anyway, this game's really good. *01:16:04* Yeah, this game's great. *01:16:06* Um the playlist. *01:16:08* Did you like the playlist? *01:16:10* You're a big music guy. *01:16:11* Did you enjoy them? *01:16:12* I didn't *01:16:13* Uh it's just it was weird because, you know, I was romancing Evelyn. *01:16:15* And to be quite honest, I'm not like into I'm not it was hip hop and like punk was the idea. *01:16:23* I just wasn't *01:16:30* super into the music that Evelyn was into? *01:16:32* Emily was into electronic and indie. *01:16:36* So Or sorry that Evelyn was into, but Emily was into indie music and there was music from those that I did like. *01:16:38* So they had like Kings of Leon and uh uh they had a Manchester Orchestra song on there. *01:16:45* I was like, Heck yeah dude, let's go, I'm down. *01:16:50* I like Manchester Orchestra and I like Kings of Leon. *01:16:53* They didn't have any strokes, which I was kind of upset about. *01:16:56* I think I wrote Manchester Orchestra. *01:17:00* Yeah. *01:17:01* I wrote I this is one of the reasons I wanted to bring up the music, is it it actually ties into your Manchester Orchestra. *01:17:02* They're so the playlist usually typically came up early in the chapters. *01:17:08* Which I noticed later on, but it's actually part of the game design and it's intentional. *01:17:14* It's because the goal I mean he's curating these playlists for a reason, it's on purpose. *01:17:19* And the music actually if you kept up with the playlist and made sure it kept playing, 'cause there's no autoplay, uh, 'cause the way he has to build it, it doesn't just automatically play the the music. *01:17:25* But if you keep up with it, it actually syncs. *01:17:36* with posts, if you're keeping a pretty consistent rate of like talking and interacting with the game, it syncs up with posts and actually the tension points too narratively. *01:17:40* There are some songs where *01:17:50* The music is building and the conversation is also building dramatic uh dramatically. *01:17:52* I thought that was awesome. *01:17:58* Huh. *01:17:59* I never really noticed that. *01:18:00* This Manchester Orchestra thing, I'm listening to this song and one of the lines in the song let me see. *01:18:02* Is something along the lines of like you you mean everything to me. *01:18:11* And this uh character wrote that as their status *01:18:14* I s like right after or right before I heard that line in the song and it r had refreshed in the page and it was actually a a rather tense moment *01:18:20* dynamically for all of the characters involved, including me. *01:18:29* And I just had this moment of like, Kyle, I understand now. *01:18:33* Um so I really I'm curious *01:18:38* And so this was in the indie playlist, obviously, which if at least to me musically probably is easier, more pliable to like set that up. *01:18:41* I don't really know how you can tie *01:18:50* At least the hip hop music I saw. *01:18:54* Like I don't know how you're gonna tie in like Kid Cuddy Kanye West r rap to emotional beats and maybe *01:18:56* There's other I I'm not as well versed in the other genres of music that were chosen, especially on Evelyn's side. *01:19:04* So maybe there are, but *01:19:10* Yeah, I mean like, you know, punk it's more like punk pop or pop or pop punk and punk rock. *01:19:13* It's not like *01:19:19* you know, sex pistols punk or like Ramones or something like or you know, like it's not like the replacements or stuff like that. *01:19:21* It's m it's more like *01:19:28* uh like rise against and the senses fail and I don't know there was like it was weird because it was like punk but also they had like slip knot *01:19:31* In there and nothing like falling in love to the sound of slipknot. *01:19:43* Hey man. *01:19:48* Hey D Trone works *01:19:49* They I but I thought the playlist stuff actually is really smart. *01:19:52* Uh I really enjoyed it a lot when it synced up. *01:19:55* Yeah, I you know, to be honest, I didn't really realize that because when I *01:19:58* like how I would. *01:20:04* Uh if I didn't like a song I would just skip it and find the song that I like and I'd just play that instead. *01:20:06* Or like I was like looking at the random like meme videos that they had. *01:20:12* in there too because I had some deep cuts for sure. *01:20:18* Um so I I did more of that. *01:20:22* I did more exploring or anything. *01:20:25* The only time I really like had it play at the same time *01:20:27* was the one where you had the rain generator thing. *01:20:31* Yeah. *01:20:35* So that was the that was the only time I I did that was where *01:20:36* like I would you know you're playing it together, you know. *01:20:41* Pretending you're actually in the same space together. *01:20:45* Yeah, and then you Yeah, and then you put on the rain generator like there's a thunderstorm. *01:20:48* Like I thought that was a really like *01:20:53* cool moment, you know. *01:20:55* That's um I use that combination to go to bed. *01:20:56* I have the music, my Animal Crossing rain music, and then I have a thunderstorm kind of sound profile that I use. *01:21:01* That's how I go to bed *01:21:07* So I was a big fan when I saw this rain generator pop up. *01:21:08* Yes. *01:21:11* Good job, Kyle. *01:21:12* But yeah, I like I I think *01:21:13* There's something about like the writing that it's funny because like if you look at the dialogue itself, it's like *01:21:17* Legitimately it's not great, right? *01:21:27* It's looks like just kids talking. *01:21:29* You know. *01:21:32* But that's exactly what it is. *01:21:33* So when like that's what it's supposed to be. *01:21:35* So when it's in *01:21:38* that context and you and you understand that like the where you're what you're supposed to be and like the situations that you're supposed to be in and like what you're supposed to be playing and you know who you're actually talking to and actually immersing yourself into that *01:21:40* Like the writing is like incredible. *01:21:53* It's it's so I hate using the word immersive so much, but it is exactly that *01:21:57* You know, like it feels like you're thrown into like a time machine into two thousand nine, and which is hilarious because, you know, the the be the beginning of that is like, you know, it's one of those like *01:22:03* Facebook posts where it's like, oh, you did this like twelve years ago or whatever, like that. *01:22:16* Mm-hmm. *01:22:20* So it's kind of like going back into a time machine and like reliving that moment in time, and that's the same with, you know, Emily's Away one and two. *01:22:21* To to me, uh this is unsurprising, it'll be unsurprising to you, uh, and anyone who's familiar with my work, but Kyle is putting *01:22:30* it, the story and the game on this on the stick. *01:22:42* He's doing what I love that Naughty Dog does is putting the narrative and stuff *01:22:46* in the hands of the player as much as possible. *01:22:50* And Kyle's not just doing that because it's a a narrative game where you make decisions, you know, one, two, three, and you you mash the keyboard and it comes in. *01:22:52* But it's *01:23:00* It's leveraging the medium that the game is on. *01:23:01* It's a computer game. *01:23:04* You're using a mouse and keyboard. *01:23:05* You're browsing a website that I think is safe to say *01:23:06* A lot of people are familiar with, know how it works, and if there are age, definitely know the earlier days of it. *01:23:11* And *01:23:17* d using it in some aspect of our dating lives, like he's leveraging all of these things to put it in the hands of the person because you could just read, you know, it *01:23:18* The first game specifically, I know the second game did a couple of like the YouTube playlist and some of that stuff, but the first game specifically was kind of just tied to the aim window and and typing and choosing things. *01:23:31* But he's leveraged this social media approach for the third game here to really make it like what you said, keep it's um it's immersive in that sense of *01:23:44* m it's more in your hands. *01:23:56* I explored the pages I wanted to explore. *01:23:57* I interacted with the the characters and posts that I wanted to. *01:23:59* uh you know how I would have done ten well when was two thousand eight, good gracious. *01:24:04* Um thirteen years ago *01:24:11* Yeah. *01:24:13* And I think that that's what makes it even more powerful than at least from a gameplay design perspective and *01:24:15* to me emotionally than Emily is a way one because it brought in more of my experiences and then put that in my hands instead of just telling me, hey *01:24:23* this is what's going on and like this time period. *01:24:35* It it let me interact with it. *01:24:38* And I think that's where it it makes it special. *01:24:40* You know what else was really like great about it too, and this goes with the writing and how he was able to like *01:24:43* write a script in this way was that, you know, it never asked you whether you're a boy or a girl or anything like that. *01:24:49* No, you just made those choices and it never like the profile pictures like *01:24:57* They never really s you know, it was not like these are boy girl profile pictures, these are girl like 'cause when I was growing up, like or when I was in high school, I had really long hair. *01:25:02* So mm-hmm I chose the profile picture with the person with the really long hair. *01:25:13* Yeah. *01:25:19* And like *01:25:19* Theor I mean like technically that could have been like a girl profile picture, but like in my mind I'm like that well, that's gonna be advanced. *01:25:21* That's what I look like. *01:25:27* That's what I w looked like when I was growing up. *01:25:28* So I'm gonna pick that one. *01:25:31* And like in the dialogue too, it never says like, you know, you're a guy or you're a girl. *01:25:32* Like they never I like identify that or anything like that. *01:25:38* And I think that's *01:25:41* Like really. *01:25:42* Yeah. *01:25:44* It's like not holding you to a certain like gender or whatever, which is like really cool. *01:25:45* Um, I thought that was really neat. *01:25:53* Like or like how like how he was able how he's able to like write that script and not like *01:25:55* have an I like you identif like they never said like uh you're a guy or ah you're a girl, right? *01:26:01* Like they never had that moment where you had to like choose and you was just able to write a script and *01:26:06* And it not really matter, you know. *01:26:12* I I don't know and that's the effort. *01:26:14* And that was pretty cool. *01:26:17* Yeah, I can't *01:26:19* I can't imagine writing something this intricate. *01:26:21* I the other thing that I really appreciated this time around was the decision trees. *01:26:24* in like th each chapter, being able to see where I went down the path. *01:26:32* And actually that helps me *01:26:37* Maybe this is the guide writer in me coming out, but uh it definitely helped me see where I could have gone also if so when I replay it or do something different, I kinda know roughly where that decision *01:26:40* would go and see where it can take me down this tree. *01:26:52* But I really enjoyed seeing the tree and the percentages. *01:26:55* That I you know, the telltale games do that too of you know, you and *01:26:59* thirty seven percent chose to do this or do that and w you know i it's a good thing you bring up the telltale games because i that's something I wanted to bring up too was just like *01:27:05* I feel like when you play a telltale game, you know, you're given these choices, but it always feels like like *01:27:15* It feels like you're making this like choice, right? *01:27:23* Like the game is telling you you have to do these things or like the game is like. *01:27:26* Yeah, typically there's a clock *01:27:30* Someone's a life is in your hands. *01:27:31* Yeah, it's like it's usually like something forced or something like it doesn't feel natural, right? *01:27:34* Like it feels like there's this moment and you have to choose or else *01:27:39* you're screwed, right? *01:27:45* Whereas like for this game, like every decision and every *01:27:47* dialogue choice that you get is your choice and it doesn't feel like force. *01:27:54* Like I don't have to be a a terrible person. *01:27:59* Like I don't have to *01:28:04* I don't have to say like, you know, screw you, I d I don't I don't like what I hate you or whatever they have to say, whatever line is. *01:28:05* You could be like, no, that's cool, like that's that's chill, I'm just chilling out *01:28:14* Or I are not like just saying like, oh not much, just just hanging out, just chillin'. *01:28:19* Like the I the fact of the matter that you could just be like *01:28:26* I'm just okay. *01:28:28* Like in a dialogue tree. *01:28:30* Like it's great. *01:28:32* Like I I I love that. *01:28:33* Like it's it's something again that's like so small and maybe has to go with like obviously the subject matter 'cause when you play a telltale game *01:28:34* Like if it's Walking Dead, obviously you're dealing with much more serious ramifications. *01:28:41* But at the same time it's like, well, you know, if I was in a zombie apocalypse *01:28:46* I don't think I I I you know I would try to find ways to not even be in that situation in the first place. *01:28:51* So we're already in this situation that's already unrealistic. *01:28:57* So it's that it's that balance of *01:29:01* Uh are you the character on screen, so to pick on Walking Dead, are you Lee or are you Mike? *01:29:05* Or Max. *01:29:13* And then Emily is away, since you are playing you're role-playing yourself just 13 years ago. *01:29:14* Or that I think that's where that kind of can amplify it and make it more powerful because you do get to do what you want to do. *01:29:22* And there is no pressure of *01:29:31* They also don't like ping bring something up and it's Emily will remember that. *01:29:33* You know, it all that pressure is removed and only at the end of the chapter do you see even what the critical *01:29:38* Like what the decision was. *01:29:46* Yeah. *01:29:48* And like where the path actually splits and then *01:29:48* Do you like, okay, I could see where that could go. *01:29:54* Because there's a bunch of other tiny decisions that really impact your relationships with all these characters. *01:29:57* And it's not just *01:30:03* I also really appreciate that this game d isn't just about Emily and Evelyn and your relationship with one of them. *01:30:04* I was actually going to mention that too, because like *01:30:13* Your relationship with like Matt is like really important. *01:30:16* And so at least that was one that was important for me. *01:30:20* Yeah. *01:30:23* We had the exact same path. *01:30:25* Mike. *01:30:26* Yeah. *01:30:26* And I was trying not to betray him as much as I was not trying to betray the rest of them. *01:30:27* Like everyone, really. *01:30:32* Like out 'cause there was moments when you know Kelly would pop up. *01:30:33* and ask for like a favor or whatever. *01:30:37* And I and I try to like if she asks me for a favor 'cause I want to see what she has to say *01:30:41* Like I would say, you know, yeah, I won't tell anybody this, right? *01:30:47* And I would still find a way to communicate without things, but without spilling the secrets, you know. *01:30:52* And that was kind of cool, like, that you were able to do that, right? *01:31:00* Because like sometimes you would look at the dialogue choices, and that's I think this is where the game kind of gets ya, is that like you'll look at the dialogue choices and maybe it doesn't seem as *01:31:03* um bad as it actually is, but sometimes but then it ends up being like really bad and you're like man that say that. *01:31:14* That's all obviously that's somewhere where the most *01:31:22* In hindsight, fun things happen because it d he does the your your character doesn't type exactly what you choose. *01:31:26* It's kind of a mass effect sort of situation where you you choose *01:31:32* what you feel like is the vibe you're going for. *01:31:36* And then the response is said or in Emily's away case is typed. *01:31:39* And sometimes you choose something *01:31:43* And then it gets typed out and you're like, No, that's not what I thought that meant at all. *01:31:45* And you know, some and I feel like sometimes they play into that because like you know, like you said in a mass effect, you know, when you say something, the person's actually saying it. *01:31:49* So *01:31:59* it's giving off a certain vibe no matter what. *01:32:00* Whereas like if when you're typing it and it's in an aim window or like in a Facebook messenger window. *01:32:02* Like people could take things out of context and sometimes like when you do those things they'll be like, Oh, I don't I didn't mean it that way. *01:32:09* Like I didn't *01:32:16* I that's not what I meant, you know? *01:32:16* I can I I feel like there were moments in Emily's away where where that has happened where you type something and you're like *01:32:18* Darn it, that was not what I meant. *01:32:25* And then they get back to the book. *01:32:27* No, please, no, take it back. *01:32:27* No, that's not that's not what I meant. *01:32:29* That's not what I meant. *01:32:30* Gotta take it back. *01:32:31* So um and I feel like those moments happened. *01:32:32* Because that you know, that happens. *01:32:35* Like *01:32:37* A lot. *01:32:38* Especially in typing when you you're talking over text, uh like text communication, because tone is completely lost and if you aren't communicating effectively, uh things can get sideways real quick. *01:32:39* Yeah. *01:32:52* It um really great game, longer than I thought it would be. *01:32:53* Mm-hmm. *01:32:59* Which I was I was happy with. *01:32:59* It w it was the right length, uh roughly five hours for me *01:33:01* Yeah, it was it was like five hours for me. *01:33:05* Four and a half, five hours. *01:33:07* My steam clock says twenty hours. *01:33:09* Um that's because I I left it open overnight, apparently. *01:33:11* And I didn't realize it counted time like that. *01:33:17* I thought it would only count while actively playing the game. *01:33:20* Uh nope, learn that lesson, so *01:33:23* If you uh the the like the two people that are friends with me on Steam, they'll see that I played Emily's away for like twenty plus hours and be like, uh promise it's not that long. *01:33:26* And I didn't I *01:33:35* Uh and it I do it has two save slots. *01:33:37* So you could do like an Emily path and an Evelyn path, which is uh pretty helpful. *01:33:40* Yeah. *01:33:45* If you at the the timeline page you can actually back out *01:33:46* and choose a different save and you could do it all over again with a different character um design and you could you know if you I *01:33:51* uh chose Emily the first time, I could choose Evelyn in the second save. *01:34:00* So I I thought that was a nice touch too. *01:34:03* Yeah, the next game I'm I wanna do another playthrough soon and I wanna do an Emily playthrough, but then just *01:34:05* Yep. *01:34:13* Be a total just not good person. *01:34:14* Just big jerk. *01:34:18* A very bad person and do all the wrong decisions and see where that gets *01:34:19* me. *01:34:23* Backstab everyone, burn it all to the ground. *01:34:24* Yeah, just like a lie. *01:34:27* Do the do the old Eddie Guerrero lie, cheat, and steal. *01:34:28* I think that's what this thing was. *01:34:32* For wrestling fans. *01:34:34* Anyway, yeah, I I the game's great. *01:34:36* I absolutely enjoyed it. *01:34:38* It was everything I wanted from it. *01:34:40* Like *01:34:41* You know, I've said it before, like the Emily's away games are like some of my favorite games of all time. *01:34:43* You know, this is up there too. *01:34:48* I really like this game a whole bunch. *01:34:49* I it just like it just gets that time period. *01:34:52* It's like it's weird because it's like a period piece, but you never say something's a period piece when it's like literally only ten years ago or so. *01:34:55* But it cap it captures it so well. *01:35:03* Like in in its like per like it sets the tone like so perfectly and so flawlessly. *01:35:06* So as long as the game is playable *01:35:13* It it will be a you know, it'll be a creator's interpretation of that time period for sure, but *01:35:17* You and I both think it nails it perfectly. *01:35:25* So that uh to people who play that, it's gonna represent a time that they may not have been a part of. *01:35:28* I'm thinking of younger people who are coming to Emily's way for the first time. *01:35:33* Can you just imagine like a poke explaining a poke war to someone or that was the notes good the filling in the notes? *01:35:37* Yeah Oh my gosh. *01:35:45* Uh Abby was actually sitting with me when I did the note stuff. *01:35:47* She loved it. *01:35:50* She was like, I remember doing these all the time and it's just that that spirits of life I would actually love to watch. *01:35:51* You know those that YouTube series of like *01:35:59* Kids react, adults react. *01:36:01* I would actually love to see like younger people play through this game and see *01:36:03* what they think of how we used to talk and interact and and you know, ask a dates out to prom and all this stuff. *01:36:11* So *01:36:18* Swell game. *01:36:20* The last thing I'll say about it, and this is like my one little this is m my reviewer brain going, is that I wish 'cause it started off with like you and current day, and I wish it ended at current day. *01:36:21* Like I wish there was a reason why it even did the current day thing in the first place. *01:36:34* What do you mean the current cause in the very beginning of the game you start off like in this year *01:36:38* Oh, and then it rewound like two thousand eight yeah, to two thousand eight. *01:36:46* And I wish at the end it would have gone back and maybe you could have like *01:36:51* had just like a little like breakd like this it would have been cool if they did the breakdown of like what happened like in an it's in a messenger thing with like Evelyn or with like Matt or something like that. *01:36:55* Or whoever you would have ha gone with. *01:37:08* And then also give you the tree at the end of the at at the end of the game. *01:37:10* But like I wish they they had like some sort of summary, like summarize a story and make it feel like an 'cause how it the story ended *01:37:13* was like so it just like ended and you're like I wish there was more to it. *01:37:21* But maybe that's just 'cause it was the ending that we we got. *01:37:29* Yeah But at the same time also like d life isn't *01:37:32* Like that's the other thing too is like life's not having like these crazy, you know, uh like over the top endings, you know. *01:37:36* It's *01:37:44* Sometimes it is just cut and a nice bow. *01:37:45* Sometimes it's just cut and dry stuff. *01:37:48* And that I I that's another reason why I appreciate like this kind of writing and and how the story's presented and how at least this ending that I got. *01:37:50* ended because, you know, sometimes things do just end and that's just it. *01:37:59* Like it's you know. *01:38:06* Yeah. *01:38:08* Are so are you saying that basically Emily is away is the last of us? *01:38:09* Uh no, because the Emily's Away is a good video game and Last of Us is a subpar video game. *01:38:14* I'm not gonna say it's bad. *01:38:23* Wait wait, are we talking about Last of Us One or two? *01:38:25* I was saying one just 'cause that game has an abrupt kind of I mean they both never yeah, the first one more was what I was leaning towards. *01:38:28* I feel like it concludes though, you know? *01:38:38* It has an ending, but it also just it leaves The Last of Us does leave The Last of Us before The Last of Us Part Two came out. *01:38:41* Left stuff up for the imagination fill-in. *01:38:52* And I I think a lot of really great movies and stories do that and let *01:38:55* the you fill in the blanks and um Emily's away three definitely does that too. *01:38:59* At least the ending that we got and uh I appreciate that a lot. *01:39:05* Definitely. *01:39:09* Same. *01:39:09* I think that'll do it. *01:39:11* That's I'm that's kind of everything I wanted to talk to you about. *01:39:13* I knew I had to talk to you about um when *01:39:16* When you got a code you got a code like two days before, I mean I was like, dang it. *01:39:20* I didn't make the list. *01:39:25* Last thing I want to just say is just thank you, Kyle, for *01:39:27* Giving me this code and like being cool about, you know, like I'm not doing like traditional games coverage and stuff like that anymore and I just wanna say thank you for giving me that code and thinking about me when *01:39:31* you know, handing codes out and stuff 'cause I was definitely not expecting that and I was gonna pay for this video game that I really like. *01:39:45* So I I really, really, really, really appreciate it. *01:39:54* Because this was like *01:39:58* Maybe my most anticipated game of the year. *01:40:00* So So I am very grateful for that. *01:40:02* Yeah. *01:40:07* Kyle, if you're listening, thank you as well. *01:40:07* I was a bit more official. *01:40:10* I used my real email and like asked for this code to review it. *01:40:11* So it was a bit more of a *01:40:15* It was a professional. *01:40:17* You definitely did not have to give me the code at all. *01:40:18* Uh but I definitely appreciate it. *01:40:20* Uh and I'm looking forward to to finishing this review. *01:40:22* I feel like a high schooler. *01:40:25* Um, 'cause I'm not done with it and technically embargo is tomorrow. *01:40:27* But uh oh, but there's no pressure to like get it done right away. *01:40:32* I don't have a concrete deadline. *01:40:37* I don't have a concrete word count. *01:40:39* Yep. *01:40:41* I can write what I want to say and that's a beautiful thing. *01:40:41* And I feel like that actually kind of wraps it all up nicely. *01:40:44* We've circled back all the way to the beginning. *01:40:47* So uh Mike, uh please plug away. *01:40:50* Tell uh if you would like. *01:40:54* You can tell if people were to find you online and your Bantam banner and all that stuff. *01:40:56* Yeah. *01:41:01* Um Mo you can find me on Twitter at the MichaelRuiz. *01:41:01* You can find me *01:41:06* I'm gonna I always plug the Instagram now 'cause that's the actual platform social media platform that I actually like. *01:41:08* It's a good *01:41:15* social media platform. *01:41:16* And then there I'm the Michael J. *01:41:18* Ruiz because someone took the Michael Ruiz and I'm kind of upset about it still. *01:41:20* Uh *01:41:24* Also, please check out Bantam Banter. *01:41:25* Um, I would greatly appreciate it if you checked out some of the podcasts. *01:41:28* Hopefully I get some writing stuff done soon. *01:41:32* But, you know, it's just been a blast doing that. *01:41:34* So um *01:41:37* Check that out. *01:41:38* Again, bantombanter. *01:41:39* com. *01:41:41* There's a YouTube also if you want to check that out too. *01:41:41* Not as much stuff, but it's *01:41:45* There. *01:41:47* Perfect. *01:41:48* You can uh you'll find links to that in the show notes. *01:41:49* Uh for my own stuff. *01:41:52* You can find my writing at maxfrequency. *01:41:54* net. *01:41:56* Uh you already know where to find this podcast. *01:41:57* So thank you very much. *01:42:00* You can follow me on Twitter at Max Roberts143. *01:42:00* And until next time, thanks for listening and adios. *01:42:04*