# [[MFP06 - “That’s Why They Call Me a Podcast Killer” with Casey Liss]] Transcript This transcription was completed on March 4, 2026 with the application MacWhisper on macOS. This was done automatically, without human input during the transcription process. The transcription used the Parakeet v3 model. My hope is that by offering this transcription – however accurate it may be done by a machine learning/AI – will help you, the listener. I’d love to offer full, proper transcription some day, but that is not feasible at this time. Thank you for listening and reading. I hope you enjoy the show and that this document was helpful. Enjoy. --- And there was one particular show that I did that I didn't do my due diligence and it was grossly inappropriate and it was just deeply uncomfortable the entire time I was there and I swore to myself under no circumstances. *00:00* Yeah. *00:00* Uh the mini two is is is really nice, especially the mini two because it's it's not as crippled as the mini one was. *00:00* I'm far enough away that, you know, it it's it takes a while to get downtown. *00:00* The RC car and the Switch I think is Bluetooth, which means the range is not stellar. *00:00* And it's because of the people that listen to this podcast that maybe have come because of, you know, maybe maybe some of them have come because I'm here. *00:00* And then additionally, we're actually selling merchandise right now. *00:00* And I don't remember how much it was, but I want to say it was like 200 bucks. *00:00* Here it was, I had never done Toy Story Mania, and I had assumed that it was just going to be Space Ranger spin and basically the exact same thing. *00:00* If it felt that cool to me as a you know, a twenty something year old adult, I can only imagine for a little little kid how cool that would be. *00:00* But my favorite attraction, hands down, by a by a mile, is the is the people mover in Magic Kingdom. *00:00* And I tried those and I actually was underwhelmed by those as well. *00:00* The Lefreuse Brew was like okay and the cinnamon bun I felt was way overrated, which was super disappointing because I was really looking forward to it. *00:00* I I'll I'll train to be a Monorail pilot, which I know is like a very intense thing that requires quite a bit of work and moving up the ladder, but you know, hopefully I can be like a monorail pilot. *00:00* And then you can find me and my good buddy Mike Hurley over at relay. *00:00* And I had borrowed that, I want to say it was late twenty eighteen, something like that, and I loved it, but it was not the sort of thing that I felt like I wanted to spend, you know, a thousand plus dollars on, especially since I didn't know if I would use it *00:00* Uh because it's really been a lot of fun and I'm really enjoying it. *00:00* The drone's two hundred and forty nine grams, which is one gram underneath what it needs to be registered with the FAA, which is just five bucks. *00:00* It's like, uh, all right, well, give it a shot. *00:00* And this time I was like, you know, you should watch it with me. *00:00* He's now an indie 500 driver. *00:00* It's just it's y y what are you gonna do? *00:00* Like does does Daklan still play with it? *00:00* I I don't know, I have an experienced VR and it sounds like you have, so maybe you can tell me that that's a whole new world and a whole nother level. *00:00* But VR in a general, I've I've been the first time I ever tried what I'd say modern day VR, um *00:00* Oh that's a good idea. *00:00* And she would flip through pictures. *00:00* f ish twelve to fourteen months as the world has ended. *00:00* Yeah, I mean I so for those of you that don't know, I do I work for Disney World, uh, down here in Florida, so Walt Disney World Parks and Resorts. *00:00* And so we went to Disney Walls. *00:00* Uh we maybe had been dating a a few months and we kind of both said wanna get annual passes? *00:00* Uh the Little Mermaid Attraction now is an they have rock and roller coaster, which I still think is the best roller coaster in all of the Disney parks. *00:00* through the right. *00:00* near Cinderella's castle, heading into like Frontierland or something like that. *00:00* I don't want to say like influencer because I don't want that, but I I I aspire to be far more popular than I am on Instagram. *00:00* all the kids these days are somewhere else now. *00:00* Um and you and you can find that at Casey Liss on Instagram and throw me a follow if you don't mind. *00:00* Because the Mini Two had uh fairly recently come out and kind of met I thought a beginner definitely beginners levels abilities. *00:00* uh that it could hopefully make up for a lot of my mistakes. *00:00* What if a friend wants to sell their house and if I run over there and even if I don't take money for sending them footage or, you know, pictures of their home *00:00* My limited understanding is that I can get in some pretty deep trouble with the FAA because I'm doing something commercially without having the appropriate licensure. *00:00* you know, thing that I want to do, but I just haven't gotten around to it yet, and so I hope to do that soon. *00:00* I know this is so cliche and so silly, but it really does change your perspective on things. *00:00* And looking at it now, I have 18 different locations of things that I might want to try to take photos of with the drone. *00:00* You know, if I have a morning or something when I when I don't have a lot of work that I need to worry about, then I can, you know, just pick a random location for my collection in Apple Maps. *00:00* and go fly and see what I think and see if I can get something good from it. *00:00* And I flew it up. *00:00* I forget the term for, but basically air air airspace maps. *00:00* uh my grandparents as with many people's grandparents lived in Boca Raton for a long time and I know that that southeastern Florida at least was extremely flat, which in some ways is kind of terrible, but in the case of a drone that means you have visibility *00:00* It it's it's a lot of fun and yeah, you should definitely steal the idea of just cruising around in Apple Maps and you know building up a list of places you want to check out. *00:00* Obvious to you, but I do listen weekly. *00:00* But this most recent uh time in your discussion kind of pushed me over the edge of I'll I'll check this out. *00:00* You know, it never did much for me. *00:00* He would tell me all the time, it's so good, you gotta watch it. *00:00* And he'd been needling me for years, literally, you know, a couple of decades now that I should try F1. *00:00* You know, I told Aaron, my wife, I was like, hey, I'm gonna watch the show. *00:00* Uh somewhat disappointingly, however, my my six-year-old Declan, he was really into it last year, and this year just can't be bothered. *00:00* I wanted to like F1. *00:00* Yeah, yeah. *00:00* uh twelve years old and when we moved. *00:00* Where's like I don't that's never clicked with me. *00:00* to nerd out about it a little bit. *00:00* Uh when I was little, well, basically my entire life, my dad worked for IBM and we moved every couple of years. *00:00* I guess because everyone was passed out, there wasn't a wasn't a lot of interference. *00:00* And we would go to qualifying typically. *00:00* Right. *00:00* I'd really love to visit like Montreal or um or Austin or Miami has been announced as getting a race sometime in the next couple of years, actually. *00:00* worth near enough money for Miami or maybe all the above. *00:00* Yeah, I would love to go down to Miami. *00:00* Um swinging down through Disney would also work out real well for me because I'm a big Disney World fan. *00:00* You know, we should go to a race together. *00:00* So uh we'll see what happens, no guarantees. *00:00* to Florida, then you could com you know, he did Disneyland a a few years ago. *00:00* Apparently my mom and two of her friends were at the race in like the Ferr like this Ferrari premium section thanks to one of um one of her friend's husbands who worked and like got them a deal or whatever. *00:00* an obscene amount of them. *00:00* For a hundred dollars if you can afford it, I I still think it's worth trying. *00:00* Um the technology, I I cannot overstate how cool it is. *00:00* from forever ago is is is intense. *00:00* The implementation uh leaves a little to be desired. *00:00* And one of the things you can do is drift your RC car. *00:00* Yeah, I'm a big Mario Kart person. *00:00* Uh a new game just came out, it's called Returnal, it's like a space game, but on this planet it rains and you can feel the drops of rain, like individual drops. *00:00* And you kind of feel like the tink of metal or glass or sand. *00:00* It is it is it it it is extremely cool. *00:00* Signed up for a slot, tried it, and I've been sold on VR ever since. *00:00* I even just bought or not bought, I traded and got a a 3D TV, you know, because that technology is important. *00:00* They got to try the Oculus Rift, which at the time was either brand new or fairly new. *00:00* I do want to try it at some point. *00:00* I have no interest in like having to build a VR capable PC. *00:00* Gosh, that's so cool. *00:00* He went in the span of, you know, six months from he couldn't get anywhere without having auto steer on and like auto auto throttle and so on and so forth. *00:00* It's fascinating also watching that progress uh that progress and that process of him going from being completely inept to being actually decent at it all in the span of not too much time. *00:00* I'm I'm kind of rambling here, but even some little backstory just to how I kind of really became aware of you and your work was a vignette. *00:00* uh for my DOS machine in order to leave enough conventional memory for some particular game I wanted to play to be able to play. *00:00* And that's where a game or an application would do most of its, you know, uh not not programming, but that's where most of its variables would be stored and stuff like that. *00:00* And then you could use extended memory for like another two or three megabytes, or maybe eight megabytes RAM if you were really fancy. *00:00* And this continued with consoles. *00:00* And that was great. *00:00* That's the thing that I think alarms me a little bit. *00:00* Uh, in the same way that I can put Declan in front of the games of my youth and it takes not a lot of effort, he will not be able to do that with his son or daughter. *00:00* when the time comes because there will be no way to do that without contacting the internet and all these servers are gonna be long since shut down at that point. *00:00* They're gonna shut down the PS3 store and like their portable system store, the the Vita and the PSP. *00:00* Time bomb. *00:00* I don't know, maybe I just have I wear permanent rose tinted glasses and I think everything old is worth saving, but I *00:00* And what are they supposed to do? *00:00* because intellectual property and this, that, and the other thing. *00:00* thorough playthroughs of these old old old games, oftentimes on original hardware, potentially even connected to like in uh then current CRT TV. *00:00* things from my youth will be open sourced. *00:00* It's like when you go to a foreign country and you eat a local bit of food, like a locally beloved dish. *00:00* And, you know, going through John Carmack's Doom Code is just so fascinating because in so many ways he's obviously so much brighter than I am, but *00:00* And the uh the Japanese version is the same. *00:00* Nevertheless, I I I consider that a success in terms of being independent. *00:00* In a perfect world, I'll I'll be able to be independent until I retire, but I'm trying to keep in the back of my mind that that may not end up happening, that I might have to get a traditional job again. *00:00* Now there's plenty of different BS that I have to deal with. *00:00* So we gotta live. *00:00* Um you poor baby. *00:00* Uh surprisingly, and I definitely um look back and wish I had kind of soaked that up more, unfortunately. *00:00* A big thumbs up to you for staying home with your kids. *00:00* And my dad is a really, really great guy, um, but he was not around a whole ton when we were kids. *00:00* And he provided uh if financially if not in other ways, he provided a a pretty nice life for my two younger brothers and I and my and my mom and I. *00:00* And I hope that the kids will remember this and reflect upon it in a good way. *00:00* That's and that's what my eldest child is at right now is kindergarten. *00:00* listen to the podcast anyway and now you're aware of who I am and maybe you'll check out ATP or analog or check out my apps. *00:00* When you look put it in there. *00:00* beforehand and planning on it, but maybe kind of jump started it, got the ball rolling a little bit faster, is that safe to say? *00:00* It is it feels good to be able to support the people that you really really enjoy and whose work you really really cherish. *00:00* And how do you handle that? *00:00* And that just feels gross. *00:00* But we can still do it from a financial perspective. *00:00* And we went through a couple of phases with this. *00:00* fan or maybe you're a super car fan and you really just want to hear all 20 minutes of that. *00:00* Uh she is incredible. *00:00* And I started listening to other shows. *00:00* um, which turns out to be John Gruber. *00:00* And I respect that. *00:00* Craig, what is it? *00:00* And when they were ending their shows on five by five, you know, I had convinced them that they hey we should do a car show together. *00:00* I mean that's an incredibly incredibly powerful place to be. *00:00* I I think so many of us, myself included, are are interested in monetizing the things that we love because if you can do that, if you can monetize the thing that you love, then you're you're not really working anymore, are you? *00:00* That's a pretty great place to be at. *00:00* kind of dream happen. *00:00* Blows my mind but No half thy word. *00:00* tribalistic and I can be very, you know, my team rules, your team stinks about any number of things. *00:00* Or at least that's where I heard it, but I'm trying very hard not to yuck other people's yum. *00:00* And I'm I'm trying to let it go, but it's it's very hard, you know, to take uh what how old am I now? *00:00* If I was going to come home from uh maybe not work, because you know that's every day, but if I'm coming home from like a night out with my friends or something like that. *00:00* The journalist in me is not trying to get like the scoop on your new app. *00:00* Yep, peak of you. *00:00* I could open fast text and with uh just a couple of taps I could say, on my way home, send it to Aaron, go. *00:00* It was kind of a test a testament to my ineptitude or a monument to my ineptitude, and so I eventually took it down. *00:00* You need to be logged in, which is something I could have done, but it would have dramatically changed the app. *00:00* what we would what we realized was she loved looking at pictures on our phones. *00:00* That means it's safe to hand a toddler or a client your phone and know that they can't go, you know, spelunking into your personal and private information and they can't and they also can't delete or edit anything. *00:00* And that makes me feel good. *00:00* Yeah, I c I completely understand. *00:00* I told them my start date, like I was available to start after endgame, because I was like, I want to get this out of the way first. *00:00* down here, so uh maybe to tie back to your road trip story, I remember one morning uh our parents woke us up, me and my brother, uh loaded us in the car ungodly early. *00:00* And we have family here. *00:00* My parents can't find me. *00:00* That's that's a very bold choice. *00:00* Yeah, we basically just did whatever it was that he wanted to do. *00:00* I actually thought Toy Story Mania was way cooler. *00:00* Toy Surmania is just great. *00:00* I think about that when I see kids walking around the park with the bag that you you put that lightsaber in and I know what they went through and just uh how cool that must feel as a *00:00* You know, she was a huge Disney fan, but had never been to Disney World. *00:00* Uh and we got to the airport and I went to the check-in counter and I said, Okay, you know, um Casey Liszt and I'm heading, you know, I'm heading out today. *00:00* No, I love MGM or Hollywood Studios. *00:00* Good record. *00:00* Come on, going through the attraction while other people are on it, that's it's ah, it's so cool. *00:00* Are there any are there any hidden gems that you're willing to share on the podcast? *00:00* And we were like an hour or two hours from Orlando and we thought, you know what, we'll just go to Disney for a couple of days and make that part of this trip. *00:00* The nap will always happen no matter what kind of parents. *00:00* And so we needed in a pinch to find somewhere that was at least slightly quiet, air conditioned, and kinda in somewhere where I could like sit. *00:00* And what we ended up doing, and I have a really lovely picture of it. *00:00* And he slept for like twenty minutes on my chest and I will never forget that moment 'cause we were like, where do we go? *00:00* Um, what are some of your favorite eateries? *00:00* Uh and then in Magic Kingdom, uh similar uh tater tot-based thing, apparently that's the key to my heart. *00:00* where they do a couple of like tater tot based dishes, which I thought were delicious. *00:00* was at the coral reef. *00:00* Um he was he was mostly uh unamused by it and and that was really too bad, but it will always be special for me. *00:00* So pineapple's not really my thing, so I've never done Yeah, me neither. *00:00* Uh you guys honeymooned at Disney World. *00:00* uh the lunch box you can you can go over and get barbecue at the uh as far as what I like to eat, I uh maybe this is a cop out, but down at Disney Springs or what used to be downtown Disney *00:00* Uh there's a sushi place. *00:00* uh i if you've seen Beauty and the Beast, where they they dance and stuff, but you can go into different rooms. *00:00* Aaron did the Princess Five K. *00:00* For lunch. *00:00* It's in the everyone. *00:00* like laying it all out in my mind. *00:00* It's and there is an added side of it of being able to say I worked on that. *00:00* You know, I saw Ariel today, you know, or thing or I know a kid is going and I can say, well, I'll tell them to look out for you and all this stuff. *00:00* Uh but we've joked that uh, you know, whenever it's time to retire, rather than just, you know, sitting around and watching T V all day, maybe we'll move down to Orlando and and I've told her that I'll like *00:00* But um nevertheless that we would retire by going and working like, you know, 10, 20 hours a week at Disney World or something like that. *00:00* Anytime you want to talk about F1 or or or drones or certainly Disney World, you know where to find me. *00:00* I encourage you to check that out. *00:00* And then John bought it was one of the best car drives ever. *00:00* Uh and if you're interested in the history of Naughty Dog at all, you can go to chasing the stick. *00:00* history I wrote about a naughty dog during the PS4 era. *00:00* Nou dunno not enough not at all *00:00* Liked what you heard at least, which uh makes me feel good. *00:00* Um but I am glad that that is the rule and I am appreciative that you were able to roll with it and and not get too angry at me. *00:00* would I ever go on a show again without having heard at least one episode. *00:00* For the most part, my work these days and my my uh professional output these days has been on on ATP, on analog, and via the app store. *00:00* individual said, Do you have other reference work that I can like list, you know, other episodes to listen to? *00:00* Especially now that I've gotten myself a drone, which I think we'll be talking about a little bit later. *00:00* I can't think of a better segue than that, so I think you and I both have the same drone. *00:00* So uh uh internet friend of mine uh let me borrow his Mavic was it Mavic Pro? *00:00* Um and it also, I believe the Mini 1 used Wi-Fi as its control um like mechanism, if you will, and this uses the fancy pants OcuSync, which means you can *00:00* And I love this thing. *00:00* tremendous ruckus and people will look at you while you're doing it. *00:00* And then the Mini 2 came out, and the Mini 2 fixed a lot of the problems I had with the Mini 1, most especially that it was a 4K camera rather than a like 2K or 2. *00:00* for different job sites. *00:00* to buy a drone. *00:00* like legal drone videos that is uh the algorithm hasn't uh panned back out to what I normally watch. *00:00* I've been looking into getting my Part 107 so that if the occasion arises for me to do something for money that I that I can legally do so. *00:00* go ahead and get certified such that the FAA won't stomp on me if if I do this for commercial reasons. *00:00* as a reward for shipping an app that I'm currently working on that has been taking me far longer than it should to complete, uh, I've been telling myself that whenever it ships, regardless of if it makes any money at all, that's when I'll allow myself to do the Part 107 like study course and in *00:00* is I'll get on Apple Maps and I'll go into satellite view and I'll just pan around my o my local area and I I've *00:00* created what do they call it like a collection or something yeah um where you basically save a series of locations and I've created a a a collection that I call drone ideas. *00:00* I never thought of airspace before. *00:00* I got it for the the one gig. *00:00* Part of part one hundred seven is learning more about that. *00:00* on the other side of the road. *00:00* And on a clear day, if I thr get the drone up to, you know, the limit, which is about a little shy of four hundred feet, on a very clear day I can see the Richmond skyline off in the distance, which is super cool because it does not feel like it's close enough that I should be able to see it. *00:00* Since I could walk. *00:00* He was getting up at two in the morning to watch these races on a not irregular basis. *00:00* And then I don't remember who it was that told me about Drive to Survive, but somebody, it might have been Mike, might have been somebody else, said, You've got to watch Drive to Survive. *00:00* For better or worse, uh, it shows you and some would argue fabricates, but in my opinion, shows you a lot of the drama that goes on off track that you don't really see. *00:00* to understand what makes these drivers tick and what the kind of backstory is. *00:00* A couple of years ago, maybe three or four years ago, I watched the race in the race in Austin and I was like, oh, that's neat. *00:00* the history of Red Bull and how they used to be phenomenal and now they're not quite as phenomenal or how, you know, Ferrari won forever with Schumacher, but they th uh th they don't they haven't won anything in a long time. *00:00* And so I r got really into it and I watched almost all the races last year, I believe, and then right before this F1 season started *00:00* But then these individual drivers are also competing against each other. *00:00* Um the the coverage of that on Drive to Survive I thought was good but not stellar. *00:00* And it has just been so much fun. *00:00* I remember this this may not be an interesting story to anyone but me, but I I was we were we were driving and on a lark my dad *00:00* a New York City radio station on the way to Indianapolis, you know, from from Illinois, which I thought was the craziest and coolest thing that I'd ever seen in my life. *00:00* to finish up through season three here before uh the weekend of the fifth in June. *00:00* And I I shared the whole spiel with her and she goes, Do you know my F one story? *00:00* And they were there for the food. *00:00* It y it these are the sorts of things that y you can't really fault mom for it and you can't. *00:00* I d I I can't wait. *00:00* This Mario Kart home circuit like RC car that paired with the Switch. *00:00* You know, he's he's our eldest, and so I'm not sure how much of this is declan and how much of this is just kids in general, but one way or another, be it unique to him or otherwise *00:00* you can get one of you know each of you can have one and you can race each other. *00:00* You know, now that Aaron and I are on the we're knocking on the door of fully vaccinated, um, you know, we're hopeful that maybe we can start visiting with people again. *00:00* is the coolest thing I have seen in a very long time. *00:00* You know, even VR from 20, 30 years ago is is mind-boggling. *00:00* pretty synonymous with with gaming and and carts and stuff. *00:00* And it's just so cool. *00:00* And I think just having some sort of physical element really can make games more exciting and more immersive. *00:00* It's a good idea, but it does have that like hundred dollar buy-in just to get the car and the game. *00:00* you know, your gun firing when you're playing Goldeneye. *00:00* In some ways it's kind of like a a a technology demo. *00:00* Which is incredibly hard to pull off and just you know, not make people freak out. *00:00* slightly harder to press so it kind of gave it a Oh that's cool. *00:00* And these controllers are going to have those haptic motors and those adaptive triggers. *00:00* was one time I went to UCF uh for college and I was walking through uh the the engineering building and there was like a a Vive, uh HTC Vive set up. *00:00* Uh when we were all in in San Francisco for WWDC, uh Mike, my analog co-host, he and CGP Gray, and I think Stephen Hackett, uh, if I'm if I'm not mistaken, all went to Facebook and *00:00* this was next level and was like nothing they had ever ever ever done before and that's how they described it and so I do want to try it. *00:00* I do. *00:00* uh p people call me an old man on the inside because I I I've listened to the jazz station in college instead of like what was cool on the radio and I I go to bed super early and I keep all these old games and things around. *00:00* He eventually got to the point that he doesn't use any of those anymore. *00:00* In a serious way. *00:00* I don't know, just things kinda come and go and I feel like the app store, a lot of things go, get buried. *00:00* you know, kids that we hopefully have. *00:00* keep and preserve and there were things I got rid of as a kid that I wish I could get now and it's through the roof and it's expensive. *00:00* I don't I don't know how you maybe feel about that. *00:00* at a time when the a computer was a mostly understandable piece of hardware. *00:00* We call that a floppy disk, but that wasn't floppy. *00:00* half a megabyte if it's big. *00:00* forty dollar computer and I acquired a bunch of ROMs for old video games and I put them on the Raspberry Pi and I can play them at basically native Fidelity. *00:00* on my on this Raspberry Pi. *00:00* Um, and I'm not that bad. *00:00* It's absolutely nothing. *00:00* You know, the march of technology, the march of progress makes that more difficult with each passing year. *00:00* It it made everything better because now you can find these things if you know where to look. *00:00* Lo and behold, month ago, they announced they were gonna close these stores. *00:00* Because cartridges are accessible. *00:00* This started out as a as two boys, teenagers who made games for the Apple II. *00:00* this seems like the most economic way to accurately play them. *00:00* I guess this is how it really would have worked. *00:00* For me to kind of bring this full circle, I think I grew up at the exact right time. *00:00* It's it's a bummer and and I think the internet is probably a net positive, although I mean, depending on what your political leanings are, maybe you disagree these days, but um but uh i it does have some some bad, you know, after effects and this is one of them. *00:00* definitely do come together in incredibly powerful ways. *00:00* Whenever that happens, like when Doom or it finally got open sourced, I always go and just even though I don't spend a lot of time on it, I always go and just take a look and see what it looked like to be in the code of Doom. *00:00* It's also just cool seeing what it looked like to work on that kind of code, even though that was, you know, 30 years ago or whatever it may be. *00:00* J not just in games, but for everyone. *00:00* Oh man. *00:00* And uh the Legend of Zelda North American version 131 kilobytes. *00:00* Um and it must weigh like 3,000 pounds too. *00:00* And that's coming up on almost three years, I think, here in the beginning of June, right? *00:00* He was in preschool at the time and a couple of years away was when he was going to start kindergarten. *00:00* I don't know if need or urgency or impetus for being independent kind of goes away because the real idea was trying to be home with the kids. *00:00* Uh I essentially he was trying to be the uh Chip and Joanna Gaines before, you know, that w they were a huge Before it was cool. *00:00* Um unfortunately or fortunately I guess with hindsight twenty twenty, that ended uh pretty roughly, and which was what led to us having to leave from uh move from Indiana because he got a job *00:00* We were homeschooled, so my mom taught us and you know, and my dad was home, and that really did have, I think, an overall positive impact on me. *00:00* You know, uh I I love my dad to death. *00:00* And so I I certainly have a long way to go. *00:00* I'm considerably more present than I think my dad was. *00:00* That's a bit of a bummer. *00:00* And and I just hope that I can ride this wave as long as I possibly can. *00:00* Slash join. *00:00* We really wanted to be aware and cognizant of how it would come across because we wanted we wanted to give *00:00* And ATP in the format that we've had for years now, well basically eight years now, we have our own after show. *00:00* uh we should diversify to some degree and try to make sure that we're keeping ourselves covered such that if if a pandemic happens suddenly that that you know we can still doing the thing that we do love doing *00:00* A lot of people enjoy listening to ATP Live, and some of them can't really do that because perhaps they're in Europe where it's like in the middle of the night, or perhaps it, you know, eight or nine o'clock in the evening Eastern time. *00:00* is a deliberately crummier version in terms of audio fidelity, a crummier version of what what's being broadcast live. *00:00* to do something that's good for us and for the listeners while not making those who don't want to or are unwilling or unable to pay while not making them feel like they're getting cheated. *00:00* Most people don't want to bother with that. *00:00* Um, there's no editing. *00:00* A lot of people really value that. *00:00* But around the time that I got engaged, which was uh the January, kind of the beginning of my final semester of college, we got engaged. *00:00* I love quite a bit. *00:00* I don't know how many years, a very long time. *00:00* I listen to them and I've used codes from ATP and relay and stuff. *00:00* that it uh, you know, they still it goes into the like last 15 seconds of the ad where you hear the important stuff, the code and where to go. *00:00* I wanted to bring that to the space and I've been thinking a lot about being upfront with that and not taking away from people, because then it it makes me respect whoever's making the thing more. *00:00* we're all we're all treading on in the in the footsteps of those who came before. *00:00* Um, you know, it it's not the sort of thing that t most people can just, you know, flip a switch and there you are. *00:00* I'm s slightly embarrassed by that, but also very proud of it at the same time. *00:00* This is not for a side hustle, but I remember when our TV broke um last year. *00:00* is quote unquote better. *00:00* Or watching the movie or doing the thing. *00:00* I've been trying that a lot. *00:00* You could set up um much like you you can now with s with uh shortcuts, but it was much more rudimentary. *00:00* Um, but nevertheless, that that's that's what that was. *00:00* Um I had planned to keep that going for a while, but within a year of it having been released, you know, the way the app worked was it would go to like Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and stuff in order to pull these profile pictures. *00:00* and a place that my understanding is you have some amount of familiarity with. *00:00* And and it's still out. *00:00* For Declan's fifth birthday, which was uh in the tail end of 2019, um, that's when Michaela was uh less than two years old and we spent a week in Disney World, which is one of my favorite places on earth. *00:00* uh to really fully detail and update my contacts. *00:00* Um yeah, I'm I'm very particular about keeping everything up to date. *00:00* designated place for it, I'll never remember it. *00:00* I don't want to ever have to go to a friend that I've known for a long time and be like, hey, what's your address again? *00:00* Uh what was that podcast? *00:00* And it was terrifying. *00:00* But when Clubhouse, I was like, this has my friends' addresses in it and their birthdays. *00:00* You know, uh you you seem to have uh and I'm I'm winking a little bit here, you seem to have a little bit of experience with Disney World. *00:00* technical publications. *00:00* uh the company here in July. *00:00* And they said, hey, come on, we're going to look at houses, which at that time made sense because we were trying to move, I think, or I don't know. *00:00* f place to stop. *00:00* Uh this was for Florida residents. *00:00* I feel like that is the least beloved of the four parks that are at Disney World. *00:00* Um I love rock and roller coaster so darn much. *00:00* I'm a huge I you know, I came out at the age for Toy Story One and I've been watching not just Toy Story but all Pixar movies. *00:00* land. *00:00* Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway, uh, which is inside the Chinese theater and takes the place of the g I think it was the Great Movie Ride. *00:00* They had Alien in there, which I love Alien. *00:00* to Disney World and and Hollywood Studios, I highly encourage you to check all that out. *00:00* maybe not the best choice for honeymoon. *00:00* uh weather reports and I had said to her, All right, I want you to pack one suitcase for this, which was Orlando. *00:00* And I'm gonna grab the appropriate suitcase and then we're gonna go. *00:00* uh moving around above everyone and looking down and seeing stuff and uh it goes through Space Mountain if I remember correctly, right? *00:00* chill out and you can define chill out however you want. *00:00* Um gosh, yes. *00:00* There seem to be two basic styles of parenting, particularly of very, very small children. *00:00* Or there's the, eh, whatever, way of parenting. *00:00* Because we could go off to the side. *00:00* you know, where you can feed a child or uh or you can change their diaper or whatever. *00:00* hunt Perry the Platypus down thing through Epcot, where you go to different parts of the park to find Perry, and th there's little things that pop up and you interact with, and I believe it's in an app now, so you get kind of this *00:00* Um I forget where they are. *00:00* recommended enough, not only as adults who didn't have children, um, because honestly it felt like we never *00:00* a nuisance. *00:00* We we love our sushi. *00:00* Some other smaller hall where there's these big statues of of Belle and the Beast and they're they're spinning and dancing. *00:00* super cool and immersive and we went around Christmas time, which is uh a big part of Beauty and the Beast, kind of I guess as a whole on a brand type thing. *00:00* Bell's Castle is a great place to go. *00:00* Yeah, uh it's it's funny how a place that I've only been, I don't know, ten times in my life, I don't know it extremely well, but I know it a lot more than you would think for having only been there like ten times. *00:00* I can't wait to go back personally as well, because uh part of being a cast member is we can we can opt in to have a pass or now they offer um Disney Plus as an alternative. *00:00* I didn't design the attraction. *00:00* uh little kids or little girls in particular in dresses, you know, they're dressed up as their favorite princess. *00:00* respectfully, their parents are obviously there and everything, but it's just seeing their faces light up or the way they tuck behind their parents' leg. *00:00* Please. *00:00* tip of the iceberg and I think I like to think anyway that there's so much depth to both of them that you don't really get to hear in the five second elevator pitch. *00:00* Then try out ATP and if you like nerds talking about just about anything, including F1, uh try out analog. *00:00* relatively soon. *00:00* At a moment there, I was waiting for you to wrap up because I'm so used to hearing you talk. *00:00* apps, you're you you write your own code, and you're also on Really FM's analog. *00:00* Mm-hmm. *00:00* really ever? *00:00* you can fly the thing quite a bit further away than you're legally allowed to and still have a good connection. *00:00* Drones have always been that technology that is so cool to me, but it's really it was really hard to justify the uh the cost to get into it. *00:00* Especially now that the weather's warming up and you know the days are brighter, that I can start maybe once a week going to different places and and doing a little bit of aerial photography and putting that on Instagram among other places. *00:00* makes it far more interesting from like a legal perspective. *00:00* 300, 400 feet over these these houses uh that are along the park, over these trees. *00:00* Forever, which I can see being super, super fun and super interesting. *00:00* We flew it up by their house and their house is like a green roof and everyone around them is like black and all the stuff. *00:00* Anyway, when I was prepping for all this, I listened to the most recent or semi-most recent episode of Analog, and you and Mike talked about Formula One and Drive, the show on Netflix Drive to Survive. *00:00* I've I've heard about Formula One like offhandedly for years and then maybe the past year or two I've heard about Drive to Survive. *00:00* Um, I've loved cars my entire life. *00:00* Uh he was a huge F1 fan. *00:00* Now it's you know, she's saying to me, Oh, what time's the racist weekend, which is great and I love it and it's something new that we can share together which is which is also great *00:00* But um but nonetheless i uh if you're at all interested in F1, I think I personally believe that Drive to Survive is an unbelievable way to get you into it. *00:00* I love that it's it's twenty racers to a team and that they're teams, so they're working toward, you know, getting everyone to the top. *00:00* We have similar and unsimilar like we have connection points there in our stories that are similar. *00:00* a and you know there was this uh w what was it? *00:00* put onto Toro Rosso from Red Bull and the the Toro Rosso guy was brought up to Red Bull. *00:00* Uh uh I wanted them to like go and dig into what happened, where it went wrong, how it went wrong, etc. *00:00* was my dad and I would go to qualifying for the indie race for the Indy five hundred. *00:00* kind of scary and also really cool. *00:00* put on the New York City area 880 a. *00:00* And I believe it was Michael Andretti, not Mario, but Michael Andretti was riding around on like a moped or something like that and darn near ran me over. *00:00* I can show them a real Disney park, not that ridiculousness out in California. *00:00* You know, he's like, I can't believe it. *00:00* without I really do think this human element and kind of understanding the inner workings of these teams and these racers really has lent itself. *00:00* I'm gonna know, oh that's Max Verstappen. *00:00* But you know, speaking of racing, there was a an episode of ATP, episode four oh three of ECR for the Internet. *00:00* he will obsess and perseverate over a particular toy and carry it around constantly, play with it constantly, and then drop it like it's, you know, last year's cool thing just spontaneously. *00:00* And with Home Circuit, it is phenomenally cool. *00:00* Um I don't remember how much we paid for it. *00:00* This is the future. *00:00* for you know we sales numbers here and in uh in half the time it's wild. *00:00* I know John has one, uh a PlayStation 5, but I I I don't know if you do or have had a chance to see one or try one. *00:00* And it was, as a again, as a Nintendo family, it was unreal feeling the controller vibrate in what at the time felt like *00:00* absolute precision. *00:00* I s I can see how it would be extremely cool. *00:00* Toy. *00:00* Combined obviously with just VR itself, I feel like it's gonna be incredibly immersive. *00:00* uh and the the Oculus Rift S, which I think is their current like PC headset, and then the Quest 2, which is their, I think, pretty popular no wires, hand, you know *00:00* It was as though they had flown for the first time, like without an airplane. *00:00* Driving ones. *00:00* incredibly great because we don't we don't uh let him play all that much switch. *00:00* to play that. *00:00* to import images to contacts data, which thank you very much. *00:00* It was uh one, maybe two literally floppy discs. *00:00* things were considerably more understandable and considerably simpler. *00:00* I would spend so much time trying to get, you know, a mouse driver loaded at the right moment such that I still had enough conventional memory to run SimCity 2000 or something like that. *00:00* twenty times the size of the entire original Zelda game. *00:00* And and he's played some of those and he's really enjoyed them. *00:00* If you don't have a server to connect to, you can't play that game anymore. *00:00* Every shader, every model, every every texture, you can have all of it, but it's useless because you have no server to contact. *00:00* I feel like on some level it sh it should should be accessible. *00:00* they were going to go away. *00:00* almost uh a tribal or rivalistic about it. *00:00* about the history of um a video game developer Naughty Dog. *00:00* And I thought, well, I can't afford an At uh an Apple II with uh, you know, an Amiga and an Atari ST. *00:00* I think. *00:00* It bums me out a little bit that like stuff that people play today, they won't ever be able to play again. *00:00* Yeah, yeah, yeah. *00:00* thousands of people working together to make these things and have them last and that's that's pretty cool. *00:00* You know, I think Apple kinda slightly did that with their app uh Apple arcade and they brought some old games back with no ads and stuff. *00:00* You even wax poetic for uh for old phones and designs and I mean look, we finally got uh straight rail sides on the phone again. *00:00* We're really close to three years. *00:00* Now to just hard transition, because I can't I I don't have a segue for this one. *00:00* I'm gonna say affectionately call jobby job. *00:00* then I will cons consider that a success. *00:00* And so that'll be, you know, another couple of years from now. *00:00* Um, but I don't know, you it you get very used to very quickly not having to deal with all the BS that comes with having a traditional job. *00:00* um at a construction company based here in Florida. *00:00* um very good at what he does. *00:00* I think doing that for your kids sounds like pretty good. *00:00* He certainly wasn't the hands-on dad that, you know, he wasn't the stereotypical, like, hey son, let's go out and throw the ball around kind of dad. *00:00* And and I'll remember this time, which is excellent. *00:00* Uh both of the both of my kids are honest to goodness people now. *00:00* And to be here to help shape that and help push them in the right direction as much as possible is really rewarding. *00:00* And yes. *00:00* Um, even though it's not a hundred percent, you know, ice cream and lollipops, uh I I try very hard not to lose sight of the fact that I'm an intensely, incredibly lucky. *00:00* But we didn't want to feel like we were taking away in order to do it. *00:00* program is to say, all right, free people can get the show, and if you want the after show, then you have to pay. *00:00* Because we didn't want to take away what was already there. *00:00* Um within a couple of minutes of us finishing the show, that bootleg is up and available for listeners to listen to. *00:00* And we'll talk about it, you know, maybe we'll talk about some cars or argue about Tesla for twenty minutes, and only two minutes of that makes the edited show. *00:00* Um now I'm gonna share it with everybody. *00:00* up to and right bef while I was in college. *00:00* And uh Quinn Nelson of Snazzy Labs tweeted out a Daring Fireball article. *00:00* stop. *00:00* Uh and I I still feel bad about that a lot. *00:00* kind of this whole Apple Tech circle. *00:00* Dithering, you know, all these shows do certain things that I noticed weren't in the gaming space. *00:00* got to the point of I just need to do a show. *00:00* Because I respect it, I actually listen to the ads. *00:00* And that's been repaid in kind, and I'm I'm I subscribe to Dithering, which is great. *00:00* First of all, thank you for just I've being honest, not taking away, and trying to just enhance the experience. *00:00* And and it's it's it's interesting trying to balance for anyone I think. *00:00* to try to ride that wave to build you know just to absolutely murder this metaphor that we've been using on an awful night. *00:00* And, you know, I was able to ride on their coattails and then I like to think that, you know, it maybe maybe that was my way of getting in the door, but I like to think I've made some pretty decent contributions to the space since then. *00:00* And if you, the listener, have any sort of side hustle wherein you're not just pouring money into it, but it's actually giving money back, that that in and of itself is an incredibly powerful place to be. *00:00* five years. *00:00* It's Whatever works. *00:00* They needed to do everything. *00:00* get the TV that I wanted to get, frankly. *00:00* Um just uh maybe to tie it back to that the Mr. *00:00* That's the the win. *00:00* doing it how I think it should be done. *00:00* The other, I guess, side of your, you know, being independent is your apps and stuff. *00:00* Um, this was when I was very much employed with a jobby job. *00:00* Uh that got that got polled after like four years because it was kind of embarrassing at that point because at that point I knew how to write a decent app and that app was not decent. *00:00* And over the span of the first year of its existence, basically all of the services it used ended up doing things that prevented it from working. *00:00* And uh I came home and, you know, I I think I was doing a little bit of work on vignette and then after that was able to wrap up. *00:00* terribly complex app. *00:00* use Peek a View to get her in oh I don't I don't think I've very explicitly described what it does, but it's a read-only photo gallery. *00:00* Um so yeah, so I still use it and I'm hopeful that I'm gonna get this new app out sooner rather than later. *00:00* just people how it works and things like that. *00:00* And at that moment when the text came through, I almost said, hold up, I got everyone's address. *00:00* Well b b A because it's I guess everyone's phone number, which uh we hand out like candy, and I'm very aware of that since um *00:00* uh that, you know, magical experience. *00:00* Disney now two years. *00:00* Um and then I I became a full time cast member in July. *00:00* What we didn't realize in our sleepy stupor was that the car was fully bloated. *00:00* uh you know, not really just past the kind of that front circle area where you can meet uh different characters and *00:00* head in my hands and they look at me and they go, What's wrong? *00:00* And uh she made me buy mine first. *00:00* A lot. *00:00* Um seriously, between me and the metal bar, I it was pretty bad. *00:00* And um and when we got to Magic Kingdom, which is where we knew we would be spending most of our time, he immediately just connected with Space Ranger Spin and that was basically all we did the entire time we were there. *00:00* said she was fine not going to the preview. *00:00* Which is just, you know, as a star someone who grew up on Star Wars, you know, that type of thing, that's like dream come true type material. *00:00* And so they also have Rise of the Resistance as the other attraction there. *00:00* And that's not that's not as a as someone who works for the company trying to like sell it. *00:00* What? *00:00* Um, but and and I love it so much. *00:00* Uh not only does that song get stuck in your head all day and I actually It is a great big beautiful tomorrow. *00:00* I uh magic it's been a minute since I've been to the Magic Kingdom for fun. *00:00* Hmm. *00:00* All that stuff. *00:00* easier to wrap your head around because museums have been a thing for forever and art and preserving those things is is just a part of it. *00:00* you know, Disneyland and what would become Disney World, all that stuff's super cool. *00:00* Just real because it's it's something you don't expect to see a little platypus man with a fedora pop up. *00:00* Um I didn't go when when we were there with Declan, but I always loved uh the 50s Primetime Cafe in in Hollywood Studios. *00:00* You know, some adults d when they go on a cruise, you know, they go on a cruise because they want to relax and and drink and, you know, have all sorts of fun in the sun. *00:00* because it's just it's Disney out on the water. *00:00* They they are working on a barbecue Toy Story barbecue place. *00:00* Um that we that was like a dinner that we did. *00:00* um, you know, while you wait for your food to come or whatever. *00:00* for lunch and she said she was actually underwhelmed by it but that was lunch and and my understanding is dinner is a very very different adventure entirely but *00:00* uh as as a guest and just soak up these parks again and and get to go and things like that. *00:00* There's pride in that and I it feels cool to say I work at Disney and help out with that. *00:00* So thank you so much, Casey, for joining me. *00:00* but really it's just kind of been it's it's devolved into the two of us just talking to each other, which is the world's worst elevator pitch, but it's actually a pretty enjoyable show, so *00:00* There have been being able to listen to ATP specifically for the past two years, you know, every week, there have been some moments that are just perfection. *00:00* It's it's a no actually both shows really are shows that the elevator pitch I think only captures but the the the smallest *00:00* Uh so uh thank you again, Casey, uh and thank you all for listening. *00:00* Hey everybody, welcome to the Max Frequency Podcast, episode six, I think, if I'm staying on top of things. *00:00* No, of course. *00:00* But I I really admire people who have really been able to embrace Instagram and do well with it, like my co-host Mike Hurley, for example. *00:00* I love research. *00:00* And just the technical level of a 4K. *00:00* Um but the business side of it gets a little bit you need to be aware of what airspace you're in and there's a I went down a rabbit hole on that. *00:00* I wanted to so when prepping for the show, I I was I was listening to analog. *00:00* that fast and that tight freaks her out. *00:00* Ha ha there's a missed opportunity. *00:00* It strikes me as one of I think We Sports is a good analogy of just it gives some sort of tactility to it. *00:00* Um every PS5 comes with a game installed on it, similar to how every Wii came with Wii Sports. *00:00* And, you know, it's essentially a a really fun game slash demo for the controller and the technology. *00:00* I wonder if I kinda hope they expand it in some way or add s new toys or elements to it, because I feel like *00:00* you know, uh Declan is is how old is he? *00:00* In general, I mean specifically to Declan, I suppose, but in general, like this is someone's first Mario Kart game. *00:00* Yeah, you know, I so I was born in nineteen eighty two, so next year I'll be forty, and I came up and I was learning about computers. *00:00* See there you go. *00:00* Kids today that play Fortnite will not be able to play the version of Fortnite they're playing ten years from now. *00:00* I had this feeling in my like in my gut, in my brain, supposedly, that uh Sony in my head was like *00:00* Which is wild. *00:00* Uh yes. *00:00* These computer environments by following YouTube videos for things that I've never done. *00:00* blows my mind that those crumbs are still in there. *00:00* Yeah, it's a big bummer sometimes. *00:00* Seven inch, I think. *00:00* To my kind of point though is you know, he did that. *00:00* Safe to say that uh the pandemic last year maybe um I don't think Kickstart is right, 'cause I would assume you guys were thinking about it. *00:00* superfans a way to support us, which obviously is completely self-serving, but also as a s person who is a super fan of other people. *00:00* Um around the time that we were launching the membership program, uh, I think it was John and I in particular were saying to Marco, you know, we should really do a bootleg because we know that *00:00* And literally within a couple of minutes of us hanging up with each other, or really of us ending the show, because we hang on for a little bit and, you know, shoot the stuff afterwards. *00:00* Not necessarily as my job, because that was always the goal in college and stuff, was like, I'm gonna go to California and be a video game writer. *00:00* Um I one thing I personally love is uh ads are marked as chapters. *00:00* And then he's gonna delete my email later, which honestly I don't mind if he kept my email, because I like what he does. *00:00* getting me back into this and I think a healthy way for me where it's fun and I'm not feeling the pressure of doing stuff *00:00* When I first started recording Neutral, which was the predecessor to ATP, I didn't think that that it was effectively going to be my full time job and *00:00* really was too young for Disney, but we we w we really weren't gonna leave her home or anything. *00:00* the only thing you can do is look at them. *00:00* I think that side of any business is interesting because I the only co code I know is like very rudimentary HTML that I had to learn in college. *00:00* sent a message in the group chat she is uh she's pregnant and she was looking uh she needed everyone's address uh to send them what turned out to be an invitation to like the shower stuff. *00:00* I I became aware of you, Max, because you reached out and said, Hey. *00:00* fix the attractions. *00:00* That is that is super incredible. *00:00* Different objects of things. *00:00* Is the best. *00:00* It's more than just, you know, put the p pieces together, here you go. *00:00* Casey, I I work for the company and I tried to avoid. *00:00* any of like the m again cliche, but the magic that happens in any of this stuff. *00:00* But just the immersion that the imagineers put in and everything in to make this attraction come to life is astounding. *00:00* Yeah, no, I totally hear that. *00:00* It was an amazing magical honeymoon. *00:00* Small world. *00:00* holding up my phone as like just a white noise machine kind of close to his ear and we're sitting him on my him on my chest and me on the floor, we're sitting in the um the Hall of Presidents like lobby queue area. *00:00* That that though did help me. *00:00* um Mexico in Epcot. *00:00* almost treasure hunt, uh, to find Perry throughout the park. *00:00* Take your kids and they would be attended to by cast members. *00:00* cast members, um, you know, so that all of the attendance that is in the park now is is paying guests, and that makes sense from a business perspective. *00:00* It's one of my favorite parts of the job and all I do is write a manual. *00:00* I've never been so excited for someone to spend an obscene amount of money. *00:00* is none other than ATP's own Casey Liss. *00:00* We want some drone footage of the job site. *00:00* So then this I'm I was just decided to watch Drive to Survive and everything just clicked in my brain where *00:00* Yeah, it um I'm hopeful that, you know, i if the world gets to some modicum of normalcy, you know, sometime in the next year or two *00:00* So I'm I'm t I'm sharing this new love with everyone. *00:00* Turns out that in Indianapolis, apparently, this is all new to me, th there was F1 from like 2000 to 2007 or something. *00:00* And in 2000, that was kind of the the big inaugural I think it it may if my Googling was correct today, uh was the first time it was back in the States after so many years, whatever. *00:00* It is, it is. *00:00* in just in general, because before you could just had an Oculus account. *00:00* super popular headset. *00:00* Um it is it they take Tetris and make it this transformative experience. *00:00* I don't remember it well, but I believe the way DOS worked at the time was you had this stuff called conventional memory, of which you only had like 640 kilobytes of it, no matter what system you were running on. *00:00* And if you had a diskette that had SimCity on it, you could play it. *00:00* weird and almost wrong to me, especially for in that game particular because it's so massive and popular in this moment of time. *00:00* And there's so many incredibly good things that have come from the internet. *00:00* But you miss out on the ability to do to to play what we consider now modern games when they're no longer modern because they are so unbelievably reliant on the internet. *00:00* That counts too. *00:00* Save old stuff. *00:00* Yeah, it's been going really well. *00:00* I wonder hearing you say that, you wanting to be there for your kids, uh while they're at home, you know, their kid kids. *00:00* I'm not a parent, and so I just try to wrap my head around that I'm home all the time because of current circumstances and my job fortunately allows me to work from home and I I enjoy that. *00:00* As as you are wont to do when you become a parent, you want to emulate the things that you enjoyed of your childhood, and then you want to fix the errors that your parents made during your childhood. *00:00* I I this was in my the notes on my phone, not in the I forgot to put this in the Google Doc. *00:00* Even though ad sales for the most part are good and certainly considerably more lucrative than than membership *00:00* And we were doing that. *00:00* But I love doing this. *00:00* Good long form things and having engaging discussions with people on most topics. *00:00* And that's that's the normal kind of side hustle experience, right? *00:00* That's fine, but really? *00:00* Uh it's been alright. *00:00* Um Peakaview was born in Disney World. *00:00* And so um I I I guess we probably can't dig in but so much and I know we've been running a little long, but I I can't help but ask *00:00* It ha it has show so I loved the hat. *00:00* Since, you know, their very beginning, I'm very attached to all of it. *00:00* you know, it's a it's a show production, like the cast members are walking you through this whole how to build it. *00:00* Exactly right. *00:00* But I I don't know, I do I feel some connection there. *00:00* Okay, okay, gotcha. *00:00* we we bought the three year thing for Disney Plus, so we didn't quite need that. *00:00* It is one of the most heartwarming feelings in the world. *00:00* If you want to listen to my shows, you can find myself and my good buddies uh John and Marco at atp. *00:00* to work. *00:00* um place to start for that kind of thing where you, you know, I think most people have played Mario Kart one version or another. *00:00* That is I think it's on the quest too, so it's accessible most places. *00:00* Old stuff a lot and like I have a lot of nostalgia for a lot of things and crazy stuff. *00:00* You can't go back and play the first version of Fortnite that was out uh however many years ago when it launched, you know, two two, three years ago. *00:00* this computer environment like you c you don't just play the game like you don't just click ski crazed let's go you you like load *00:00* What are you supposed to do if you're Blizzard and and it just doesn't make financial sense to continue to host World of Warcraft? *00:00* build something, not just houses, but build his own business and and be successful on his own. *00:00* I remember my dad being home and that made an impact. *00:00* Is is formed in their childhood and particularly early childhood, in my personal opinion. *00:00* And they have a Patreon, and the way their Patreon works is you get a basically a second episode each week, a bonus episode, an after show, as they call it, if you give them, you know, at least five bucks a month. *00:00* And really big super fans would set up like audio hijack or something like that in order to record the the live stream and then they would listen to it time shifted later. *00:00* Presumably other services or other apps or something were using similar techniques to get at this data and eventually they started saying no. *00:00* them, whoever they are? *00:00* I don't know, maybe a year and a half, maybe probably even less than that actually. *00:00* And I get to say that I work with Mickey Mouse or I saw Ariel and their faces just light up in this like *00:00* You have been on my mind for this show since it launched. *00:00* I have uh a side like a freelance side gig that I actually do with my dad. *00:00* I I'm not a super fan, but I do like it. *00:00* I mean there are b there are games on there that were digital only. *00:00* I uh talked to Abby and said, I would like to buy one of these now because I'm working on a a book. *00:00* banding together and basically saying to the company, look, can we buy the servers from you and we'll make it our problem? *00:00* I as someone who listens, uh, I appreciate that a hundred percent. *00:00* Two year, two and a half year break. *00:00* He's a person, you cannot deny the impact that what he you know, clearly you can't deny his impact. *00:00* No, that's basically it. *00:00* And so they don't they're not gonna do that in the middle of a race. *00:00* I how would I describe it? *00:00* My dad, he had his own company when we were younger, my brother and I. *00:00* If you want to do something that is not the way I think you should do it, as long as you're not hurting anyone, you're not hurting me, not hurting you, then you know whatever. *00:00* That actually made decent money. *00:00* And I've I've been uh three times now. *00:00* Oh yes, yes. *00:00* Oh no way. *00:00* That's right. *00:00* Oh I know. *00:00* So I think I I said I explained I I shared this story with you uh when I pitched you to come on this show. *00:00* And me stopping unfortunately for for them, I mean other they were also burnt out. *00:00* Oh no. *00:00* Yeah, I never thought so, but it uh I it seems to be. *00:00* Which is understandable, I suppose. *00:00* That sounds wild to me in general. *00:00* One I g I suppose this counts as real-time follow-up. *00:00* Holding on with like, you know, an iron grip and trying to let that go. *00:00* I don't look at it that way. *00:00* How absorbed you can get in this space and feel it. *00:00* Eventually they will shut those servers down. *00:00* So in that time, I I stopped listening to like a lot of game podcasts. *00:00* And I just felt burnt out. *00:00* Craig Maud. *00:00* I go to this I've been going to this park, you know, regularly for for years now. *00:01* But nevertheless, it it does work extremely well as long as you f stay within the kind of guidelines that it gives you. *00:01* I think the Quest 2 is a great sp uh place to start if you're you're cool with Facebook owning it and require then now require a Facebook account to use Oculus, which is kind of a bummer. *00:01* They'll have like this nostalgia for it. *00:01* It wasn't a bummer, it was actually a really good thing. *00:01* It all comes full circle. *00:01* Uh all the time. *00:01* There's also in Hollywood Studios I I'm blanking on the name of it, but there's this Walt Disney kind of like history museum kind of walk *00:01* So they're building it over there in Toy Storyland. *00:01* Uh right. *00:01* Uh yeah. *00:01* And I'm assuming it's his first at six. *00:01* And so it was so easy to keep it in into into emulate it because it doesn't take that much to emulate a Nintendo Entertainment Show. *00:01* So imagine if Blizzard shuts down World of Warcraft. *00:01* Could have been ninety-five or ninety-eight. *00:01* And so I wanted to bring that in some way to video games. *00:01* Uh I remember vividly, and I've mentioned this offhandedly a couple times, but I remember vividly when I told Aaron that I wanted to get a road podcaster, you know, a m microphone and boom arm and so on. *00:01* Uh and that's personally because I got stuck on it at the end one time for like twenty minutes. *00:01* Like I I recently my parents sent me a video of me explaining how a turbocharger worked when I was like four years old. *00:01* You know, how can how can we not do this forever? *00:01* Peak of you. *00:01* Exactly. *00:01* Well while you're thinking, uh so one of the times we went to Disney, um, we so happened to be going to a wedding in Florida. *00:01* I got I I got the green light. *00:01* Yeah, well and you won't you don't even know what you're getting into because uh this past season with uh Roman Groshon's absolutely horrific crash toward the end of the season. *00:01* Uh traffic and stuff makes her anxious. *00:01* I've been writing about them for it's just a part of my life in a in a huge way. *00:01* It's it's just there's um so I think another kinda cool example of this I *00:01* Oh. *00:01* It it's just tough because especially things that are server side like a massively multiplayer online role-playing game. *00:01* I know when people's birthdays are now without relying on Facebook to tell me. *00:01* Oh that does not sound funny. *00:01* It's in the back by Ariel's Grotto kind of area. *00:01* But thank you again, Max, for having me on. *00:01* Uh so thanks for listening and we'll catch you all next time. *00:01* Like I would I knew I would use it for the first month when it was all new and exciting and then I figured I'll never use this thing again. *00:01* And I just want to say now, before we talk about this, thank you. *00:01* I've heard it's super cool. *00:01* Uh my mom's side of the family lives here. *00:01* Like the Hall of Presidents is not the most popular ride in the world. *00:01* Yeah. *00:01* And I think what'll end up happening is sometime in the next like month or two he'll see Mario sitting there and be like, Oh, let's set up a race course for you know home circuit and then he'll play with it for like a week or two and then it'll go away again. *00:01* Um and lightsabers and I'm thinking of stu Tetris Casey. *00:01* Thankfully, Sony listened to um the outcry from d people online and they've reversed that decision, thankfully. *00:01* And like that's what I pursue. *00:01* It the hardest space for me to do that right now is particularly the kitchen. *00:01* It's not necessarily as um universally applicable as vignette was, but it's an app that I still use every day and she still loves looking at pictures and I still *00:01* That replicates it on a hardware level. *00:01* I need to make some bug fix changes and whatnot, but I've been so uh tunnel visioned on this new thing that I haven't had time for it. *00:01* And I'm glad that uh I can inspire at least one person to clean that up a little bit. *00:01* Mom bought a map. *00:01* I mean, we're not even five minutes in the park. *00:01* And so that whole section of the park is awesome. *00:01* She let me build do the build the lightsaber experience. *00:01* It's a part of everything I do. *00:01* Um I mean I might steal that idea because there's so many places in Florida I feel like I could go, depending on the airspace, to uh to take pictures and stuff. *00:01* And uh uh uh when I was in college, which is quite a long time ago now, uh but when I was in college, the same guy that introduced me to Top Gear, which for a long time was my favorite TV show in the world *00:01* Of course, th it would be absurd for him to fly across the ocean to go to one of the like three races in North America instead of one of the like nine or ten or fifteen that are over near him, but here we are. *00:01* And I think, you know, I've heard stories, and I can't remember of what games, but I've heard stories of like the remaining hundred or two hundred or thousand or two thousand players of such and such game. *00:01* I I know. *00:01* However, to turn that frown upside down, um, you know, so much of uh a person's life *00:01* And and it wasn't until the pandemic when we saw ad sales really just absolutely tank that we realized, okay *00:01* It feels gross to say it, and it feels extremely gross to be on the receiving end of it. *00:01* I am eternally thankful that she said yes. *00:01* So that's that's part of what I do. *00:01* It's great. *00:01* Kind of like Buzz Light. *00:01* I was set up to love F1, but it wasn't until I watched Drive to Survive that it really clicked. *00:01* And things, especially compared to today, were much smaller. *00:01* Not just games, but software and things. *00:01* So it's oh so it's only two thousand pounds then. *00:01* Yep. *00:01* And I really noticed a lot of the stuff that relay and ATP and and Daring Fireball and w you know Stratekery. *00:01* Uh that's my department. *00:01* So we did uh we did a week at Disney for her 30th, which is extremely cool. *00:01* And so I that will always and forever have a special place in my heart. *00:01* Yeah, so I'm supposed to do that thing, huh? *00:01* Tell me about it. *00:01* We didn't usually go to the race. *00:01* I mean it's on it's on uh mobile devices now. *00:01* I've always I I I don't play games much anymore, but when I did I was huge into Nintendo. *00:01* And when you get when you use a mushroom, the RC car legitimately speeds up. *00:01* Looking back on it. *00:01* You know, consoles were the same way. *00:01* And I have done that with Declan. *00:01* I was talking to a friend of mine earlier today and and he's been independent for like six years now and he was joking me that he is just completely and utterly unemployable at this point. *00:01* Yep. *00:01* But that was utterly terrifying to me because I'm looking at her and I'm waiting for her finger to mash on the trash can icon and start deleting things. *00:01* Um I was lucky enough to go to Disney World a handful of times as a kid, maybe three or four times. *00:01* You gotta be thinking about that stuff at the park. *00:01* In the parks though, we did do uh Bell's Castle. *00:01* Uh because uh when Aaron uh or I I let me back up a half step in February of last year, so like right before the world ended. *00:01* Now I have like three apps on my phone that tell me all these different things and I can see circles and all that stuff. *00:01* But yeah, I mean Drive to Survive tells you the human side of what on the surface seems like a very inhuman sport. *00:01* Um I've I've been to Miami a couple times and and to be completely honest, it w I didn't particularly care for it, but it wouldn't surprise me. *00:01* But nevertheless, my the the point I'm driving at is all of these games, you know, the entirety of the n Nintendo and Entertainment System catalog is probably like 20 megs or something like that. *00:01* We have moments where we're stumbling over each other, we have moments where we're yelling at each other and you know, trying to figure out what what the next thing is we should talk about. *00:01* Um there was an app that I had written mostly for myself early on. *00:01* Uh, you know, one year pass, all four parks, no blackout dates. *00:01* I can't think of the name of it either, but yes, I know exactly what you're thinking of. *00:01* But nevertheless, uh I I kind of I've been working on trying to get into like drone photography, aerial photography and stuff like that and try to integrate that into my Instagram. *00:01* And the client for the job that we're working on now uh came to my dad and said *00:01* Why you you grew up right next to five hundred? *00:01* You just don't understand at the time. *00:01* That's why I still have a tube TV, because I I won't let it die. *00:01* It is wild. *00:01* And eventually we were able to convince Marco to release what we call the bootleg. *00:01* And then we started our own little podcast network. *00:01* And even though on paper all of that was both a waste of time and money, I value very much that experience and it was and it was a lot of fun. *00:01* Yes, I've learned to uh I've been learning a lot lately that my way isn't always the right way and like *00:01* No, one of the uh what is it, Woody's Lunchbox, I think it is in Hollywood Studios. *00:01* It's so I'm so excited. *00:02* And the beginning was basically, well, you can support us and we appreciate it. *00:02* He offers these newsletters all the time. *00:02* And and it's a tough thing. *00:02* Alright, so of of the parks, which is your favorite? *00:02* I have used it a little bit less frequent frequently in the last month than I did in the first couple of months I had it. *00:02* Uh even drank out of my ATP mug this morning because I knew we were doing this today. *00:02* I think you'll enjoy it. *00:02* But I I'm I'm already starting to get you know get him on board with like a twenty twenty-two race trip or something like that. *00:02* Mm-hmm. *00:02* It's probably closer to a tenth that. *00:02* I I went through the whole process of backing up all of my cartridge games and their save data's and stuff, because that stuff runs off batteries. *00:02* And it does one of the good things about it is it it lets some topics breathe that wouldn't have made the show otherwise. *00:02* I've I've had my fair share of hey I need I I would like to get this uh for this purpose. *00:02* Uh I'm gonna find it for the show notes. *00:02* Oh, I'm so jealous. *00:02* So part of me is now trying to avoid current spoilers or spoilers in the TV sense, because I want to finish season three and then maybe hop into the middle of this season of F1. *00:02* I want to say it was a hundred bucks or something like that, which is not a little bit of money. *00:02* I'm talking about the five and a quarter, like legitimately floppy discs, and that's what we were using at the time. *00:02* I wanna I I work with him on some projects on a a smaller scale. *00:02* And that's when I really I was aware of like relay in the periphery. *00:02* That's just what he does. *00:02* She's like, it's all a movie to me, and I'm like, how is this possible? *00:02* And so because of that, you know, my contacts list uh I occasionally get made fun of for how robust my and how uh d you know wide spanning my contact information goes. *00:02* Uh but that is just a loop and it's an air conditioning in the dark choice. *00:02* I think that's right. *00:02* Uh I do have a website that I used to write on a lot more than I do these days. *00:02* Reactive triggers where triggers can have force to them. *00:02* It you know, there's um so there's this project kind of alongside the the Raspberry Pi, and if you talk to certain people on the internet the they will be very opinionated and *00:02* I love podcasts. *00:02* Were there other apps before Vignette? *00:02* And and so um that, especially when paired with the iOS feature called guided access, which will lock you into an app. *00:02* And the other the other classic that still gets brought up to this day is we walk in, Disney World, Magic Kingdom, Main Street. *00:02* Um but Mickey Minnie's Runaway Rareway truly is an immersive experience. *00:02* And they can be counter service, they can be sit-down, you know, whatever you prefer. *00:02* You you you're putting the floppy disk in, like to play the game and you're loading the disc image and playing that way, or in the Atari all this stuff. *00:02* Like I think a couple of years ago the one of the original versions of MS DOS was open source. *00:02* And so, you know, that was when Marco and John and I really thought, okay, let's make this work. *00:02* And I remember later I was like, What was that apple site? *00:02* I I couldn't agree more. *00:02* Um that is definitely the hardest space for me. *00:02* These people that like go in and steal usernames, it was a whole rabbit hole. *00:02* Uh we didn't do it at Disney World, but we did do a Disney cruise for our honeymoon. *00:02* Morimoto's sushi. *00:02* That's how I I see in I'm a like landmark navigator. *00:02* I've had an absolute blast uh talking with you this evening. *00:02* And I I didn't understand NASCAR. *00:02* Okay, that's all you need to know. *00:02* And you you decided to to sunset vignette bec um for various reasons. *00:02* The Japanese version actually ran on um floppy disk because they had a disc system over there. *00:02* Um I when I when I went independent, um Declan was what was he f almost four and *00:02* And honestly, as a twelve, thirteen year old didn't entirely appreciate it *00:02* So atp. *00:02* And like I said earlier in the show, I personally loved a vignette. *00:02* It does. *00:02* At the most magical place on earth. *00:02* Probably very smart of her. *00:02* I actually have always like I I am old enough that I still call it MGM, but I've always loved Hollywood Studios, but *00:02* Um I I actually had fun with it. *00:02* And this was at the time when being an American F1 fan was like super weird and and finding F1 coverage was extremely difficult. *00:02* And I watched the first and second seasons, I believe, um, of Drive to Survive, and they are phenomenal. *00:02* They didn't even know they didn't even know how big of a deal it was. *00:02* It was garbage. *00:02* I mean, hey, look at Pokemon Go. *00:02* Yeah. *00:02* So last I think it was it was last year, you guys launched a membership. *00:02* And I actually have another project um that's actually coming out very soon. *00:02* And that's what's important. *00:02* So I started as a contractor in April. *00:02* So I've been doing that. *00:02* Oh my word. *00:02* For me, my favorite attraction in all of Disney World, which is which is something I've discovered, is actually not as unique as I had originally thought. *00:02* You know, I play a very small part in a much larger uh m machine, makes it sound cold. *00:02* And you know, uh again I'm dating myself as an old man now, but when I was a kid, I will never forget the first time I got and plugged in a rumble pack into Nintendo 64. *00:02* Mm-hmm. *00:02* That'll be really cool. *00:02* But but other than that, like what are people supposed to do? *00:02* Uh so I never shared that. *00:02* In some ways, I'm not sure it was the right choice in insofar as basically all we did was run around Disney World all day, which was amazing, but *00:02* Maybe that's cool down. *00:02* I went to um what is it Lef w where do you get the Lefreuse brew? *00:02* And I've heard that modern VR, like you know with the Oculus Rift and all that, I've heard it's it's a whole nother level. *00:02* So kind of I want to use the Mario Kart thing as another segue. *00:02* You left your your real job uh to do you know, your own thing, to be solo, to work for yourself and with other people, but you know, you're your own boss. *00:02* I'm sure it's a lot more palatable and a lot easier to deal with when it's self-created, rather than having to deal with some moronic coworker that the company just won't fire because they've been there three hundred years, you know. *00:02* I was very, very surprised that I didn't love it, because I love a cinnamon bun. *00:02* I've never really been into car racing. *00:02* And she's like, okay, I'll give it a shot. *00:02* We gotta live there for fourteen months, um in one of the most beautiful places in the world *00:02* Um my parents are still together. *00:02* Now I want to play with it, you know. *00:02* It's so good, you gotta watch it. *00:02* There's two hundred miles an hour and they're the open wheels and it blows my mind that that they can crash and walk away from it. *00:02* Uh so ATP. *00:02* I even remember one time I remember when the Mac Pro roundtable happened. *00:02* And I remember telling her, hey, I want to get this, you know, $200 microphone and whatnot in order to try to do a a podcast with Marco and John. *00:02* Tower of Terror, I love Abby hates it. *00:02* Um, if I remember, I'll I'll send it for the show notes, but I I'll probably forget. *00:02* Whatever whatever race was there. *00:02* It's been an absolute pleasure. *00:02* So, Sony, they have their PlayStation VR that came out with the PS4. *00:02* And I just I feel like things I don't know. *00:02* And I have showed him the original Mario Kart and the original well the Super Mario Kart I should say. *00:02* I set that up, which was wild. *00:02* Well th it it it's pretty heavy. *00:02* I know way more about hover and yes please and all the my desk. *00:02* And I love Toy Story Mania. *00:02* Uh I honestly I love a lot of the shows. *00:02* Because my limited understanding, having briefly looked into it, is that you're expected to have a basic like general aviation pilots level of understanding of um *00:02* You feel, you know, your ship v vibrating when you get h when you get hit in Star Fox and and so much of that was so transformative. *00:02* I don't know if alarm is the right word, but it scares me a little bit about the internet and how it's become all-consuming because I can't. *00:02* As with all apps, it made it all in one lump at the beginning, and then it basically petered off after that *00:02* I you know, now I'm all in. *00:02* I I agree. *00:02* Nice. *00:03* And you're supposed to be able to digest and understand what those are. *00:03* It's such a great television show. *00:03* I could have fallen in love. *00:03* Uh not really, but that's not entirely unusual, especially at that age. *00:03* I d I didn't know how to really articulate this in the show notes in like a concise way, so that's why I'm a little rambly. *00:03* You know, if you had the cartridge for your your NES or your Super Nintendo or even your Nintendo 64, you could play that game. *00:03* And I guess off the bat, like, how's that been going for you? *00:03* I was I I had reached my podcasting and writing for news outlets to like reach certain quotas. *00:03* I I go around, I document these attractions and how they work, uh their AV systems projection, you know, all the things that make uh the ride go and give guests *00:03* And I had, even prior to meeting Erin, I had always thought, you know, it would be kind of neat to honeymoon in Disney. *00:03* And you can walk in and you can be in like beast quarters and there's thunder and lightning and you can see the rose and the glass or or you can go over to um *00:03* And and just having that change in perspective again as cliche as it sounds, has been a lot of fun and and I'm really, really enjoying it so far. *00:03* They might give you the super, super short version, but they're not gonna give you the extended cut, if you will. *00:03* But um nevertheless, I I I would love to try Miami again in a general sense *00:03* I'm like guys F1's amazing. *00:03* That's that's Lewis Hamilton, you know, that's Daniel Ricardo. *00:03* It really is just a whole new world, like new way to play. *00:03* I mean heck the Mortal Kombat movie just came out. *00:03* And he started kindergarten this past fall, and as it turns out, he's still here because of COVID and he's been doing it all virtually, but *00:03* And we wanted to give the Superfans a chance to support us if they if they felt like we were worth it. *00:03* fm slash store. *00:03* But I've for a few years I did a weekly game show with my best friend Logan. *00:03* And when we went through the options, she was like, do we really need this? *00:03* Um but it's it's it's getting there, but we're not there yet. *00:03* And I'm not trying to say that our way is better. *00:03* Also, I'm I again I'll edit this out. *00:03* So even though I grew up right outside of, you know, the Indy 500, I just none of this ever connected. *00:03* And I remember vividly we would get up at like three in the morning or something like that to drive out to Indianapolis in order to see qualifying. *00:03* In particular, I believe the communication transmission or the communication protocol between the *00:03* But at the time it felt like throwing a battery and it just starts shaking. *00:03* Big big thumbs up for me. *00:03* It just in the end doesn't make sense. *00:03* And if I can survive until she's in kindergarten, at that point, you know, not that I don't want to spend time with Erin, my wife, but at that point, the real pressing *00:03* And I kind of just was like, I need to step back and soak up. *00:03* I mean, even you know, if you look at when I first went independent I dabbled with, you know, doing YouTube car reviews and I and I *00:03* Like you really need this? *00:03* Highest fidelity of uh video output, all this stuff. *00:03* And that made very little money and and it was more than anything me proving to myself that I could get an app in the app store. *00:03* I write uh the ride manuals. *00:03* It was I'm we had a great time and we love, you know, we love Disney and then now I work there. *00:03* So Oh, this is this is like my favorite style of food. *00:03* Oh what's it called? *00:03* Usually they they do most places like sit-down places have more for dinner than *00:03* I believe it has a three-axis gimbal, if I'm not mistaken, instead of a two. *00:03* And she had kind of sorta paid attention to it when I watched it previously, but what but was maybe like reading at the same time or doing something else at the same time. *00:03* Yeah, and and I don't know if it was that same trip, but one of the two or three trips we made, um, one I had a brush with death because I was in the pits. *00:03* But she told me that story today and I thought this is perfect timing. *00:03* And really what that means is I think it just changes the angle that you're allowed to steer it at, but but it but it has the same effect. *00:03* You know what I mean? *00:03* It really, really is. *00:03* I am not a perfect dad by any stretch of the imagination, but and and I'm not as present a dad as I should be in many, many ways. *00:03* And you don't know what you have until it's gone, but definitely had way fewer responsibilities in college than I do now as an adult. *00:03* I love writing. *00:03* Probably more than they actually realize. *00:03* And um I, like John, I'm kind of always on top of the TVs and stuff. *00:03* And you know, I really love it. *00:03* So we gotta do that and ride um Millennium Falcon Smugglers Run, which you get to pilot the Millennium Falcon. *00:03* And that's what we did. *00:03* And I've been into the Dole Whip scene. *00:03* We made reservations and did that. *00:03* Right. *00:03* And that's the way I was. *00:03* And I mean, obviously that that's not not exactly how it worked out, but it was just such a a earth-shattering experience. *00:03* Uh and I've been fortunate enough to try the Vive, uh the PSVR *00:03* If you just if you just like Tetris. *00:03* Um a Raspberry Pi versus something called the MISTER and the MISTE is is an FPGA little computer board. *00:03* Things like the Mr. *00:03* And th you know, Relay, they have really tight shows that are edited, but they do th quality of life things, you know, chapters, chapter art. *00:03* I mean we we told him what parks we were going to, but once we got there it was mostly up to him what what we did. *00:03* But nevertheless, it was incredible fun. *00:03* When when my dad said we may need a drone for work, I got so excited. *00:03* This is also thirty years ago. *00:03* He may have played a different one at a younger age. *00:03* So it emulates the hardware instead of the software. *00:03* I grew up right before the internet was a thing. *00:03* Um but we actually we didn't move to Florida, we moved to St. *00:03* And I I part of it was I I think knowing my dad, he wanted to do something for himself. *00:03* And and something that I think I've been very bad about and I'm trying very hard to get better about is is I I can be very *00:03* Yeah, so that gets brought up a lot. *00:03* I think it was like eight months old, come to think of it. *00:03* And if you go inside, uh that's where they have this um Athineas and Fur Perry's adventure type thing. *00:03* So they get you to explore and things. *00:03* You know, it's funny. *00:03* Have you been using yours a lot or is yours already collecting dust? *00:03* Six-ish. *00:03* And he he can play Mario Kart legitimately and he can play battle mode legitimately and and he's not terrible. *00:03* As a as as a person who was a kid whose dad stayed home and was around, we were also homeschooled um from second from second grade up through seventh. *00:03* And I think it's in most ways that's good, in some ways that's bad. *00:03* You know, especially Michaela in the last year has gone from a two-year-old that barely talks to a honest-to-goodness person. *00:03* versus Raspberry Pi thing. *00:03* Um but just how has that been I know a vignette and I know I'm gonna mess up the name because I don't remember. *00:03* Now, if you'll if you'll permit me, I'd like to turn the tables a little bit though, because um *00:03* So we were going to visit them and go to Disney World. *00:03* I'm gone. *00:03* You can also listen to that as a podcast Chasing the Stick. *00:03* She just driving's not her thing. *00:03* They've made Crash Bandicoot, Uncharted, or The Last of Us. *00:03* But it's I think it's it's sad and important. *00:03* And I don't know. *00:03* I think in the end that'll be good for them. *00:03* I mean I've been going to Disney p my whole life. *00:03* And we just kept driving south and eventually we didn't figure it out until we got to Georgia. *00:03* They don't have the hat anymore, but there was a big hat in the middle. *00:03* Oh, that's a good one. *00:03* So you can find me on uh on the internet at caseylis. *00:03* We want aerial footage of this space. *00:03* And watching watching Mario race through your own house, or Luigi, race through your own house *00:03* It's a tough very tough thing. *00:03* I could ride rocking roller coaster all day, every day. *00:03* Well, uh not too far from the people mover, uh, the carousel of progress. *00:03* It is not. *00:03* But anyway, long story short, we did a Disney cruise. *00:03* So indeed. *00:03* And then they make their business their contracts end or they get fired and they leave and they get traded around. *00:03* You see now you think Disney World and then you and then the race. *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* I mean, certainly I wouldn't be talking to you right now without it, but and but even in the context of games, you know, you see all these YouTube videos of people doing *00:03* I've I've never said that or done it before, but it counts. *00:03* And I've I've been learning personally lately that I need to let those things go and just if someone's enjoying it *00:03* Uh, but when she saw I made the financial investment, she made it too. *00:03* It really is kind of this emotional experience that I think only it sounds cliche to say, but only Disney can really do pull it off like that. *00:03* It seems to be uh a lot more people's favorite than I ever would have expected. *00:03* Um I'm trying to think of other spots because it's *00:03* And so that was super fun. *00:03* fm slash analog where ostensibly we're talking about where our digital worlds intersect with our real world. *00:03* Was it uh Pearcley? *00:03* Maybe it's somewhere that's not terribly popular so you can actually, you know, have a moment to yourself. *00:03* Morimoto. *00:03* Yes, yes, yes, yes. *00:03* And if I'm r if I'm sitting at home watching TV after the kids are in bed, one of the things I'll do from time to time. *00:03* You know, it's it I don't mean to sell it short. *00:03* It's probably like, you know, fifty kilobytes or something like that. *00:03* Yeah. *00:03* There you go. *00:03* I mean if you look at you know, I I used to talk about this a lot more when it was all newer, but if you look at even my experience in podcasting, you know, I I just so happen to be lucky enough to be friends with John and Marco. *00:03* And I spent not an extreme amount of money, but not a little bit of money on, you know, cameras and microphones and things of that nature and software in order to make that that *00:03* Um, and I wrote an app called uh Fast Text, and the idea was *00:03* I love I love all of it. *00:03* I forget exactly where it was, but that was really good. *00:03* Uh I I aspire to be a a cooler kid on Instagram, which at this point probably dates me as a very old man for all I I I I suppose *00:04* In the same way that the Wii was extremely revolutionary, like whether you like it or hate it, it was extremely revolutionary. *00:04* And seeing that as a physical RC car with the Switch, which is tremendously popular. *00:04* This is this is when they were literally floppy, you know, the the the three and a half inches or whatever you're thinking of, uh with the plastic shell. *00:04* Uh I haven't gone to the level of who was it like Andy Bayo, like five, ten years ago that had his son start on like an Atari and wouldn't let him play things until he like went to the you know he basically chronologically went through all these video game systems. *00:04* I I don't have the smooth magic for this. *00:04* And Aaron will remember this time, which is excellent. *00:04* As someone who listens to both of those shows, I highly encourage you to listen to them as well if you have not. *00:04* So in that sense I'm a little bit of a diva, but uh it is it has definitely kept me safe, so to speak. *00:04* But I don't know if they've changed the airtimes of these when these races are raced or something, but my recollection was like *00:04* m. *00:04* So I I don't have a a friend yet to uh like watch and do all this with. *00:04* And I've not tried this yet. *00:04* Like it is it is preposterous how small they were. *00:04* I set up Windows was it ninety-eight? *00:04* And and at this point it's been almost three years and and that's that's pretty darn great. *00:04* Uh I I love her so much. *00:04* I got to do an early cast preview um and I gotta I gotta take my uh best fr he was the best man at my wedding, Josh. *00:04* And we were in Disney and we were in, I think it was Magic Kingdom, I forget now, but I needed somewhere to let Declan pass out for a little bit. *00:04* And she loved it. *00:04* That's exactly the that's exactly right. *00:04* And you can feel the sand, or you walk into a fan blowing sand, and you feel kind of like grainy sand coming through the controller. *00:04* I mean that you could argue it's it's a different cut from the same cloth, and obviously that was and per I guess still is exceptionally popular. *00:04* Um but I definitely I love VR a lot. *00:04* So I would need to do one of the like m easier and lower fidelity ones like you had mentioned. *00:04* And I remember spending inordinate amount of amounts of time as a kid trying to figure out how to write the the correct config. *00:04* You could only buy these games digitally. *00:04* I spoke to my dad a couple of times today, which is a little bit unusual to talk to him more than once in a day. *00:04* I I like knowing that they're aware, like, hey, this is the part of the ad. *00:04* And I just signed up for a new one today where he's gonna go on this crazy long walk through through Japan. *00:04* Before I was aware, like how has that side of it been for you? *00:04* And um and we were there and at that point Michaela *00:04* And I think that it is in part born from me having the world's worst memory. *00:04* What d like come on what what's going on? *00:04* And we could go off to the side. *00:04* What do we do? *00:04* Um and then for Aaron and I's Honeymoon, our kind of last supper at Disney, if you will. *00:04* So I appreciate it. *00:04* I was like, oh no, I am out. *00:04* I did I did freelance wiki work for that guy uh for that game for a few months. *00:04* fm slash join. *00:04* And I f wanted to figure out how to do this. *00:04* And that's why I started Max Frequency, just a place for me to dump my long-form thoughts, because Twitter's not really uh *00:04* I mean I didn't work on it there, but it was it was the thought happened there. *00:04* And Clubhouse is like, but you have so many invites you can use. *00:04* It is. *00:04* Th I dove into that and it's a whole journey. *00:04* Um but nevertheless I I wanted kind of um I don't know like a retrospective or not a retrospective but like a uh a a *00:04* How do you how is like as but I hadn't talked to my mom yet. *00:04* You know, if I had listened to my friend, I would have had twenty years of F1 knowledge under my belt. *00:04* You can have every asset that they've ever that Blizzard ever released. *00:04* You know, earlier this year I *00:04* So I I I fear a little bit that I will be compelled, or perhaps choose, but likely be compelled, to get a a jobby job again. *00:04* Oh no. *00:04* A whole pile of money. *00:04* Bye. *00:04* Uh shoot. *00:04* I want to fly around my area and see what's going on. *00:04* And even better if you have an a person that you know that you can be around that has a switch and is willing to pony up a hundred of their own dollars. *00:04* There's I've done like a an Iron Man game, and you feel like you're flying, and at least for me, I'm I'm not getting motion sick. *00:04* But I uh to it and it slightly on a positive note, I do think that communities *00:04* or Raspberry Pi or MAME wouldn't exist without hundreds, if not *00:04* Um and now I'm trying to reach my stretch goal of it until Michaela, my daughter, who is uh currently a little bit over three, until she goes to kindergarten *00:04* All two hundred dollars of it? *00:04* And I think I've been very guilty of that for a long, long time. *00:04* But it was one of the it was like the Snapchat thief or something was the episode *00:04* And now there's Galaxy's Edge, which is the Star Wars. *00:04* There's the sleep rules our lives and we will do anything to keep the sleep schedule intact way of parenting, which is what Aaron and I were. *00:04* It's called Oh my What is I I pulled it up to make sure it was officially announced. *00:04* Um and understandably they're they're blocked out um *00:04* Um so thank you so much for taking your time uh to chat with me. *00:04* The shots that you can take with it, both still and video, are really incredible. *00:04* He's six six and a half, actually, but yeah. *00:04* But so so it's someone's first Mario Kart game and maybe someday they'll grow up like me and they'll they'll want *00:04* And then I got into this, so you actually have to like set up *00:04* It's gonna be interesting to see it as we, you know, you get *00:04* People are linked together, you know, spouses, brothers, sisters, the whole thing addresses. *00:04* And when we got to the airport, we w this was, you know, before you would print your own boarding passes. *00:04* Uh, and you know, that's a perfect segue. *00:04* They did this little baby race that was super cute. *00:04* Um is was is maybe is that the same as BR Guest or is that different than the other thing? *00:04* So so my backstory is um I n despite being an absolute gearhead, petrol head, whatever you want to say, you know, a c a person who loves cars *00:04* And thankfully I had upgraded the hard drive and downloaded these games and done all of that. *00:04* Hopefully I get better at it. *00:04* And what I would do is I would just hand her the app, if you know, the hand her the phone with the Photos app running. *00:04* Where do we go? *00:04* com. *00:04* But it it's I tell you what, it having a drone *00:04* Um, you know, you'll be able to feel the thing that you're grabbing or moving or interacting with and and be immersed in a space. *00:04* Right. *00:04* And and if you're a member, you get 15% off merchandise. *00:04* I thought it was super neat. *00:04* Ah, okay. *00:04* And so um that that's one of the benefits that membership of TATP affords. *00:04* You you pour some money into it, you stick it out for like a month or two, and then you realize this is not working. *00:04* It ri it truly, truly is. *00:04* So it's kind of not the top top one, but the one below it. *00:04* I thankfully was not assigned those manuals. *00:04* Just everyone, it's great. *00:04* Casey, welcome to the show. *00:04* Not egregiously so, but you know, it's more than just a couple of minutes by car. *00:04* like news radio. *00:04* Everyone needs to watch it. *00:04* All of my contacts are fully up to date and they look really good. *00:04* But it also ruined everything because now *00:04* Hollywood Studios. *00:04* You know, there's advantages and disadvantages to both, but we are very much the *00:04* I so as someone who loves history, I find that incredibly fascinating. *00:04* Yeah, and everyone was raving about like Lafruz Brew and like the cinnamon bun or whatever was over there. *00:04* And I haven't personally tried any of the modern day VR, but even VR from *00:04* I've carried it up three flights of stairs before. *00:04* It had like fire in the name. *00:04* She still watches stuff on her phone more than the actual TV, but anyway. *00:04* I'm definitely my a a rule follower. *00:04* And so we we took her and in order to keep her kind of satisfied and and from being bored and cranky *00:04* Uh Hollywood Oh no, I meant anywhere in in any of the parks. *00:04* But uh yeah, that's basically it. *00:04* It's just never really done much for me. *00:04* And so now it's gone from me saying, All right guys, guys, it's Sunday morning. *00:04* And like this stuff's blowing my mind. *00:04* I showed no interest in driving. *00:04* Mm-hmm. *00:04* That's definitely made an impact on me. *00:04* We kind of tried that out for a little bit with a couple of other really good friends, Mike and Mario. *00:04* And you know, I didn't go independent um until twenty eighteen and and ATP had been running for a full five years at that point. *00:04* It would have been a tremendous amount of work. *00:04* What do we do? *00:04* Because my grandfather, uh my mom's dad, he actually helped build it. *00:04* I I find that makes it feel a little bit more magical and *00:04* Uh just redirects to max frequency of this big *00:04* And and so I decided, you know, I'm gonna go ahead and get the Mini Two. *00:05* I listened to some older episodes and and ATP obvious I I listened to weekly, maybe not. *00:05* So a month, I got a month. *00:05* Star Fox sixty four. *00:05* Um there's plenty of really wild and cool games. *00:05* Anyway, I digress. *00:05* But he he's gotten to the point that he's workable and there are times that like I have to actually try if I want to beat him. *00:05* I really stepped away from a lot of it. *00:05* And then um when I met my wife um at the time girlfriend Abby. *00:05* And, you know, this I have these are strangers to me and I do, you know, I try to I approach it very *00:05* I don't know. *00:05* I've had it for about a month now and that that part of it is done, like the the businessy side of it, which *00:05* I should try F1. *00:05* I'm like, No? *00:05* Yeah, exactly. *00:05* And and like I like my I remember seeing them that evening and it was like *00:05* There's a a there's a game called Tetris Effect, and you don't need VR to play it, but it has a VR mode. *00:05* You know, if you look at a ROM that's that that you can pull from a Nintendo cartridge, if you look at like an original NES ROM, it's something like *00:05* I was like, this is where I still see that stuff in Windows 10 today on uh on my work computer, which *00:05* Uh they look around and I'm sitting on the curb. *00:05* And yeah, there was music and whatnot, but it was mostly relatively quiet. *00:05* But really quick, you've two things that you reminded me of. *00:05* Okay. *00:05* Am I missing anything else that you do? *00:05* Right. *00:05* But so the tech that I was just talking about in the the PS5 controller, those haptics, uh it also really quick has like um *00:05* You know, John plays Destiny. *00:05* And actually now he's back on his he's doing his own thing and he's *00:05* So for example, um but one of my favorite podcasts is a podcast called Do by Friday. *00:05* So I personally really think the hardware emulation *00:05* And I don't know if that would have worked for a nap, but nevertheless, um that's what we ended up doing was the Hall of Presidents and it worked out already. *00:05* Um and we did go there with Declan. *00:05* But also when we wanted to do something as an adult, we could, and there was I'm I'm sure there were things to like where you could *00:05* Yeah, a whole pile of money. *00:05* We play Ultimate Frisbee. *00:05* But um but yeah, I'd I'd love to go and I I'm already starting to needle Mike and say, hey. *00:05* Um that's why in my Twitter bio they call me a podcast killer. *00:05* Um But she graciously let me *00:05* Like I I know ahead of time. *00:05* Made me really scared of like phone numbers and two-factor. *00:05* That's awesome. *00:05* So you it's weird, but they actively encourage you to like get up and walk around a restaurant. *00:05* Because in your average race day, they're not going to take the time to explain *00:05* Uh stresses her out quite a bit. *00:05* You know, like they like somehow they sprouted wings and flew away. *00:05* And it's not to say that people don't change. *00:05* And, you know, and I think this might be a Merlinism, but. *00:05* It was right before the Super Bowl, which meant there were a lot of Super Bowl ads on TV. *00:05* Um if Abby is cooking or helping me, I have a very hard time of not stepping in and *00:05* Yeah. *00:05* And I was like, even if Clubhouse says they're not taking it, I don't feel comfortable just blindly giving it to *00:05* So tell me why do you love it? *00:05* Uh we wrote it one time and I thought she was gonna break my fingers. *00:05* And that is next level of immersion. *00:05* That is me as a as a fan and just a person who loves this place. *00:05* Um I live in the suburbs of Richmond, Virginia and *00:05* I mean it's a lot of money, but *00:05* Uh yeah, I think my last day at my jobby job was the end of May. *00:05* I was like, this guy seems kinda cool. *00:05* It was right after Endgame came out. *00:05* And then for Aaron's 30th birthday, I had printed out two different *00:05* Yeah, but still it counts. *00:05* If you'd like to see any of my work, uh you can you know, you're in the podcast feed already. *00:05* Which isn't to like sound No, well that's good, um, because that's when I reached out to you. *00:05* Instead of just assuming, you know, me just saying, hey, come on my show. *00:05* I want to say it was like February or March, something like that. *00:05* And I went, when did a lake get back there? *00:05* They didn't understand the rate. *00:05* But I I don't have one of these things. *00:05* So if you're pulling like a bowstring, it can be *00:05* You know, imagine like if World of Warcraft, I don't know if World of Warcraft is even really a thing anymore, but if World of Warcraft servers *00:05* We just watched that. *00:05* So two two years actually and I guess uh uh two years in the eyes of *00:05* This is the the metal, like you know, the real lightsaber. *00:05* Um and the in the in the the Indianapolis five hundred and the indie car race there. *00:05* And as a technology demo, it is one of the cooler things I've seen in a long time. *00:05* We only have the one and, you know, we've been allergic to the indoors for the last year and change. *00:05* And that's really tough because you basically are limited to the room that the Switch is in. *00:05* It just if you ever contrive ER or, you know, you want a new *00:05* It's still it's it still is my favorite ride, like pound for pound. *00:05* So no worries for me. *00:05* It is. *00:05* And I think that's so important to like we talked earlier, just preserving things. *00:05* I'm also uh incredibly partial to *00:05* So you can see their house. *00:05* I'm trying to I'm trying to preach the gospel over here. *00:05* I love games. *00:05* You know, you are really interacting with the real world in a way that that I haven't seen in a video game before, and it is incredibly, incredibly cool. *00:05* No, he had played um Mario Kart 8 on the Switch. *00:05* And my wife my wife graciously lets me keep it in the house. *00:05* It's tough though because I mean think about Max, what you remember from being in kindergarten. *00:05* I the *00:05* So I help uh when an attraction goes down, uh the man our manuals help uh the maintenance people. *00:05* Toy Story Mania, um, which is the you put the 3D glasses on and you sit in the the vehicle and and turn around and kind of shoot. *00:05* And well although it didn't say it on the uh on the sheet. *00:05* You know, so Casey, you're one of the th you're a third of Accidental Tech Podcast, ATP. *00:05* And I haven't had the occasion to do it for commercial reasons yet, but I can totally see like *00:05* And and yeah, you know, especially in Florida. *00:05* I just had this feeling, like, this stuff's gonna go away. *00:05* Oh yeah. *00:05* And that's all it did. *00:05* Um then after that once once I went solo, I did vignette uh which you had described earlier. *00:05* It also made me aware of like when Clubhouse launched and they wanted all your contact information, I went, No, I don't feel comfortable sharing this. *00:05* I love when uh uh when I uh uh if I see *00:05* I want to tell you this because it's funny. *00:05* And so I resisted, even though I wanted one, I resisted buying one for the longest time. *00:05* It just never stuck. *00:05* And we spent a couple of years in Springfield, Illinois, and a couple of years in Naperville, Illinois. *00:05* We actually were able to get *00:05* Okay. *00:05* What are companies supposed to do? *00:05* I remember I remember before there was the internet, and uh granted it existed, but you know, nobody was using it at the point, at that point. *00:05* Um, he built houses, did like *00:05* Uh d I think correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like it's *00:05* And that was before they brought Star Wars and Toys Story. *00:05* Uh she will not ride that anymore, and that's perfectly okay. *00:05* It's a great big I think it's way catchier than it's a small world. *00:05* So I I was born and raised in uh Indiana, uh not far from Indianapolis at all. *00:05* Oh, that that's brutal. *00:05* Like I know at least their personalities on some level of what they've presented. *00:05* Ah, nice. *00:05* There's no physical incarnation of them. *00:05* And if I wanted to skip them, I would, but kind of what you were saying about an honest sale *00:05* That's awesome. *00:05* Yeah, and she and her friend uh who were down there went to uh be our guest. *00:05* So when you say here and there, I'm like, okay, I'm here. *00:05* I still write there from time to time, and I'll put a post up about this guest spot when when it's released. *00:06* I was like, they just drive in a circle. *00:06* They're I think their earnings is next week, but that's that's a bit too much. *00:06* But the thing that I think kind of ruined everything from a preservation point of view was the internet. *00:06* That's like the bare bones understanding. *00:06* Even if you're doing it in a Taurus trap, it's still giving you like a different perspective on life and on that and on that locale. *00:06* You know, it's because of all of the people that that I'm lucky enough to speak to that I can do this in the first place. *00:06* I just saw that and wanted to bring it to the gaming space. *00:06* And so I guess what I'm trying to say is *00:06* It's interesting trying to balance things that you're passionate about and how *00:06* But um it for those for those that are lucky enough to have even any sort of side hustle that's adding rather than subtracting *00:06* Yeah yeah, it'll it'll be all it'll be alright. *00:06* Big magic hat. *00:06* I love the people mover so much. *00:06* It's super fun. *00:06* And you know, if if you ever end up becoming a parent, um *00:06* And I'd forgotten or maybe I didn't know at the time that there are like nursery or nursing stations or whatever where you can like *00:06* It's really one of those *00:06* I think it was a cinnamon bun, maybe I had that wrong. *00:06* fm where we talk about Apple and related technologies. *00:06* Um we film construction training and whatnot. *00:06* What? *00:06* It's incredible. *00:06* And th I feel it it seems wrong on some level. *00:06* Um and we wanted to give that option *00:06* Uh great show *00:06* Um But I I I'm curious what some of your favorite eateries are. *00:06* Oh nice. *00:06* He got he was *00:06* Oh is that Pure Gasly? *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* Yeah, that's right. *00:06* I feel like maybe there's a possibility there, but it just seems so fun. *00:06* So I was I heard this Mario Kart home circuit thing and I was thinking about how *00:06* Which isn't to say that people don't understand computers now, but when I was growing up, you know, like the first computer we had in the house didn't have a hard drive *00:06* It just won't exist. *00:06* It was pretty f yeah. *00:06* Oh, that's actually quite a bit bigger than I thought, to be honest with you. *00:06* But it everything looks better on it, I swear. *00:06* And I told myself, you know, if I can make this work, even just for a couple of years, so I can be around while Declan's still here *00:06* And like was about to send them all. *00:06* And we kept driving, we went to Cracker Barrel, you know, that uh the typical road trip American *00:06* Uh it's truly wonderful. *00:06* And then uh when I met Aaron *00:06* Oh my goodness. *00:06* I I I hope so, and I appreciate the kind words and thank you. *00:06* And I know you're you're working on a new one on app *00:06* It actually besides just getting pictures and it actually motivated me *00:06* It was a little selfish of me, but I was like, I need to do this before I come to work. *00:06* I could just do it nonstop. *00:06* But um I have a picture of me *00:06* It's it's obviously one of Abby and I's favorite things to do together as a couple and I I I love going with friends and sharing it with people. *00:06* It's a it's a DJI Mini 2, right? *00:06* That's kind of cool, but whatever. *00:06* No. *00:06* Oh, I didn't know that. *00:06* It's great. *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* I still played games and was on Twitter. *00:06* What is this? *00:06* You set me up perfectly. *00:06* The stage performances and things. *00:06* Oh fantastic. *00:06* Because is that sarcastic or not sarcastic? *00:06* And I think this is interesting to have these RC cars. *00:06* You know, we'll deal with it. *00:06* Because she she swears she can't tell the difference between a VHS tape and a 4K Blu-ray. *00:06* They're all singing at once. *00:06* Yeah, it uh I mean let's jump right in the drone right now because *00:06* Can uh can you do that? *00:06* And even though we were in either Illinois or Indianapolis, literally halfway across the country *00:06* How is this possible? *00:06* And you know, in Mario Kart, one of the things about it is you know you drift all the time and that's how you go faster around turns and so on. *00:06* It's just you can tell that it's it's a version one of something. *00:06* And that's the VR set I personally own. *00:06* I d I have no interest in owning a PC *00:06* Like And it stinks. *00:06* But the two people that I want more than anyone else in the world to remember this time may not. *00:06* And so, you know, what do you do in that situation? *00:06* That's a a different type of podcast that's even more structured. *00:06* But really in the end, it's about playing the game, right? *00:06* It was like iOS 2 or 4. *00:06* I spent some time on Peekaview and ended up writing that and releasing it. *00:06* Realistically, it's probably not the case. *00:06* And it is not. *00:06* So highly recommend that. *00:06* And uh s some people had told me to try that out, and I'm glad I did. *00:06* That just feels absolutely you take a pro *00:06* Yeah, ETP, um it's *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* So thank you. *00:06* But nevertheless, uh the big boy is not only physically much larger, but much more capable. *00:06* I never really got it. *00:06* And then hopefully I can I can watch live and be caught up. *00:06* They were she tells me they were there for the food. *00:06* And I I don't think they're at that point now, but th it'll come eventually. *00:06* John of the the US Virgin Islands while he built timeshares there for a a resort. *00:06* Um you could set up like a series of contacts and a series of messages. *00:06* Yeah. *00:06* And then for and then for Declan's fifth. *00:06* But I every time I see that I I think of him. *00:06* Um in in the Magic Kingdom there's the Friar's Nook. *00:06* So uh let me know. *00:06* And they didn't really do much of that. *00:06* Another thing that I I noticed or I looked up and noticed is you left what you *00:06* And that's been part of the show for m almost the entire run of the show. *00:06* And I go, I can't take another step And that's when my parents looked at each other and went, This is gonna be a long day *00:06* Um because you get to go in and you're in like the great hall. *00:06* Uh now I have a funny story to share. *00:06* And these haptics, like you you walk on a metal surface. *00:06* And I feel like that combined with, you know, their 3D audio tech that they've spent apparently a lot of money on developing. *00:06* Uh it's but even even if you just listen *00:06* I'll be twenty six so twenty-six years of *00:06* So and yeah how long have you been doing this? *00:06* Um, the tachos there were absurdly delicious and I would I could eat them every day. *00:06* We uh we I bet that's delicious. *00:06* Or kids. *00:06* Oh, Ditto. *00:06* No, thank you. *00:06* Okay, there you go. *00:06* Uh do you like Tet Tetris? *00:06* And because of that, they're extremely manageable. *00:06* I'll do I'll do your job right now as a atp. *00:06* Um *00:06* I don't think it would have been financially prudent for me to do it. *00:06* Yay *00:06* It's crazy. *00:06* I didn't work on that. *00:06* It you know, it's a lazy river in the air on land. *00:06* I forgot that I'm the host here and I need to wrap the show up. *00:06* Uh and and that's funny because if you look at what I post on Instagram, I don't post that often, which is probably why I'm not terribly popular. *00:06* They loved it. *00:06* Uh particularly NASCAR being largely circles, like eh, whatever. *00:06* It uh so my my wife Abby uh she doesn't like driving *00:06* Like that age range I feel like is a good spot for that kind of just in general, that kind of toy and game. *00:06* That was a bit intense. *00:06* And I th you know *00:06* It's not to say that you're stuck forever in your ways once you hit kindergarten or something like that. *00:06* Yeah, no I I'm always curious when I I just *00:06* Um we made a road trip as a kid *00:06* Um but any places that you particularly enjoy? *00:06* But if you if you like nerdy stuff *00:06* I still sing the theme song uh every week. *00:06* Well thank you, Max. *00:06* And I flew it up. *00:06* So the controller has uh basically haptic motors in it, um, but kind of on this next level where you can feel *00:06* I played my fair share of Destiny. *00:06* Um *00:06* Um Super Mario Bros. *00:06* And it was very simple and it had a hilariously bad icon, which Marco and John made immense amounts of fun of me for *00:06* Well *00:06* You choose the it's a whole experience and it really *00:06* Nice. *00:06* Yeah I can totally understand that. *00:07* So it's something I'm looking at and I have I have picked out, although I don't remember the name of it, I've picked out the course I think I want to take. *00:07* Oh, I will. *00:07* That's right. *00:07* I have *00:07* Um I actually gotta write a review for that. *00:07* I just feel like things go away and they come back and they're hard to *00:07* And again, I'm not gonna not gigabytes, megabytes. *00:07* And there was nothing else really to it. *00:07* To put things in perspective, the icons for the apps on your home screen are probably like *00:07* Um I think Oregon Trail got open sourced a while ago, if I'm not mistaken. *00:07* It was pretty fun. *00:07* Um you know, we had been kicking around the idea of doing membership for probably two to four years. *00:07* But then you're taking all of the people who had been getting that for free, and you're saying, Oh, no, no, no, nope. *00:07* And not everyone does, because again, the audio fidelity is not great. *00:07* It was a group decision, but I definitely was kind of the straw that broke the camel's back and kind of all of it just kind of fell apart. *00:07* And then also thank you for being one of the inspirations for just *00:07* And and I still do it from time to time, but I'm trying very hard to be better about that. *00:07* And we did. *00:07* That's super cool. *00:07* So we were totally cool with it. *00:07* I've heard you talk about barbecue up at the Oh I love barbecue so much. *00:07* We'll see. *00:07* It really does. *00:07* I'm not really sure why or how that happened, which is a little bit of a bummer. *00:07* I *00:07* Uh so when I told her that she should try this show, uh she quickly uh did not enjoy it. *00:07* I think John said that. *00:07* And *00:07* So there is no way to edit a picture. *00:07* So thank you for helping me get a hold on my contacts list. *00:07* And that's what we ended up doing is we honeymoon in Disney World. *00:07* And at the time, Declan was like *00:07* com. *00:07* No, I'm not gonna get angry at anyone uh who says no or does their research. *00:07* And I haven't really had the occasion to cross any off the list yet, but the idea is *00:07* Um I've shown him the original Super Mario Brothers and Mario Bros. *00:07* Especially when it's something that fundamentally changed. *00:07* That's all you get. *00:07* Well I'm very I'm very, very red n right now, and that that's extremely kind of you. *00:07* A this is how it's done and we need to do it this way and in this order. *00:07* I'm like, I don't really want to use them. *00:07* But I really love this thing. *00:07* I I mean *00:07* Right, exactly. *00:07* It's called Astro's uh Astrobots Playroom. *00:07* I really love VR if you can't tell. *00:07* And *00:07* Uh I'm trying to work on a book. *00:07* And what Marco does is one of the files that he's recording as as as we speak to each other *00:07* I was aware of *00:07* But uh it's not a *00:07* Um d do you want to or can you share any of your history with Disney World or any any reason why you may have a little bit of experience with it? *00:07* There's like some counter service place over there. *00:07* I forget exactly what it was. *00:07* Yes. *00:07* And what I loved about Drive to Survive was it gave you that extended cut and it set you up for the the F one season that was about to start. *00:07* Those are kind of probably the big games most people would be familiar with. *00:07* That's awesome. *00:07* Like how do you feel? *00:07* But you've also you've been doing ATP for eight years now. *00:07* And *00:07* Well, you know, how's the app development side been for you? *00:07* I don't like that times. *00:07* So I knew even in when I'm bad *00:07* I cause it *00:07* And of course my explanation is riddled with errors, but nevertheless you can you can tell like what I was interested in at four years old *00:07* Is that right? *00:07* Yeah, yeah. *00:07* Yeah, it it was unreal. *00:07* And and this is why *00:07* Anyway. *00:07* Now, on the one side, that's the only two minutes that were really good and easy to listen to, but the other side of that is maybe you're maybe you're a super Tesla fan. *00:07* Like and that as a business practice makes sense. *00:07* To ride that wave and and see if you can make something out of it. *00:07* Indiana Jones, they have *00:07* And the the person asked, Where are you going? *00:07* It is it is such a fun ride. *00:07* Uh I think there is just something about *00:07* You can find me on Twitter at caseylis, Instagram there as well. *00:07* Casey, I am hooked. *00:07* And even *00:07* Like it on paper, it's vaguely similar, but uh in my to my eyes *00:07* He did not particularly care for it, which was just absolutely depressing because we love it so darn much *00:07* So if you can ever do one of those when everything is back. *00:07* That was one of our when our passes were getting to wind down. *00:07* And that that's gotta be the best. *00:07* Oh *00:07* I definitely, definitely will. *00:07* It's so cool. *00:07* I I love that. *00:07* And *00:07* And that seems *00:07* Or can we buy this you know the server side source code and we'll maintain it and we'll deal with it. *00:07* Yeah, before it was cool. *00:07* Anyway. *00:07* He was very, very focused on work. *00:07* And I think I even said at the beginning, I was like, here's a lot of backstory that you can skip if you want. *00:07* How does he know all this Mac stuff? *00:07* It'll be alright. *00:07* It's truly wonderful though. *00:07* I'm just, you know, trying to say *00:07* No, absolutely. *00:07* Um *00:07* I got the fly more kit. *00:07* It's so good. *00:07* You c you gotta entice it. *00:07* I'm I'm a big big big fan of new ways to play. *00:07* And when I came up, you know *00:07* Well, I had convinced Marco, and I believe it was Marco's idea to get John involved. *00:07* Great Movie Ride, yeah, yeah. *00:07* And then also your your Toy Story thing, uh *00:07* But it was made up for by the um what was it like a spring roll cart that was um *00:07* Um *00:07* And follow me for more stuff on that coming up, hopefully. *00:07* Like uh uh Fortnite, tremendously popular game. *00:07* So I'm curious to see how that legacy will play out because *00:07* And *00:07* But um for the most part, I think it's a good thing. *00:07* And then Ah nice. *00:07* Where are some of your favorite places to like *00:07* YouTube now is recommending me a ton of *00:07* Yeah, Pure Ghassly. *00:07* It is. *00:07* I I don't think it's the future and it's like every game will be VR, but the technology is incredibly impressive. *00:07* There's even some *00:07* Like that's gone. *00:07* And that's fine. *00:07* Um as with everyone else, I've had a bare of a time getting anything done over the last 12 *00:07* And for that first real year of dating, we went to Disney. *00:07* Yep, absolutely. *00:07* I stayed away from it as much as possible. *00:07* That it's pretty cool. *00:07* It's good to be here. *00:07* No, not collecting dust. *00:07* And so I got the green light *00:07* And and part of *00:07* It was more the human interest thing, which does fit Drive to Survive, but nevertheless I kind of wanted *00:07* And so that's my claim to fame. *00:07* And so today I I I called her and m talked to my mom and she brought up, she's like, I hear you're into F1, like how did this happen? *00:07* And I wanted to know if you guys are still using it. *00:07* I th Mario Kart's *00:07* Yep. *00:07* Yeah. *00:07* Oh, that's wild. *00:07* What can we do to encourage people to sign up? *00:07* And that's a really nice thing too. *00:07* Well, lo and behold, I kinda took those breaks to sink my teeth into this apple scene, which is another side of my life that I've *00:07* Gruber writes a blog. *00:07* I hadn't tried that. *00:07* Um but I I can't wait to go back *00:07* Like just on this level. *00:08* Um *00:08* And I c I had told my dad this and you know *00:08* And um and if so, you know, maybe we can start doing like races and stuff. *00:08* Um and and I think Goldeneye might have used it as well. *00:08* So I was maybe I'm *00:08* And in my head, not that necessarily people may be nostalgic for that, but *00:08* It's thankfully it's only a twenty *00:08* And many more people than I expected did. *00:08* And I said, Here I don't want you to pack pack a suitcase for this, which was uh London. *00:08* Yeah, yeah, yeah. *00:08* Um joining me this time. *00:08* I did some of my practice stuff with I took I took it out to a park, you know. *00:08* So I I haven't had the occasion to go to Florida in a couple of years now, but *00:08* And then I met my wife, and my whole life changed for the better. *00:08* But um *00:08* I definitely do. *00:08* Uh, and I never really looked back. *00:08* We'll see if he comes *00:08* So I went *00:08* Three years later you've you've left that and you've been doing your own thing. *00:08* And I'm incredibly, incredibly lucky to be able to do that and be here with them. *00:08* The the idea happened there. *00:08* Anyway. *00:08* We dropped. *00:08* Yep. *00:08* They've got the little mer I'm thinking in Hollywood Studios, The Little Mermaid, there's Beauty and the Beast. *00:08* Basically one of the big boy drones. *00:08* It is. *00:08* Yeah, I I really do want to try VR. *00:08* But *00:08* Do you do you do you and and do it the way you want to do it. *00:08* And I don't think they were targeting vignette specifically, but *00:08* People mover, extremely popular. *00:08* Um, and some people may look at kids as kind of a *00:08* It's my favorite mug. *00:08* If it it sounds like a John thing. *00:08* Yep. *00:08* And I feel like *00:08* And this Mr. *00:08* And and it it wi it turns out it was all right. *00:08* Um *00:08* Uh and so I know if I don't write something down or have a have a pl *00:08* Uh like we were talking with VR, not that you're putting goggles or anything on it. *00:08* But they also have, you know, Walt's desk. *00:08* I've never been, but I bet that's tremendous. *00:08* When John when J when the Mac Pro is announced *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* But Yeah, no, I I think I get what you're driving at. *00:08* Uh *00:08* There's nothing necessarily wrong with that. *00:08* In January we got married in October, and we graduated in the summer there, uh June or whenever. *00:08* Uh I would not recommend the uh *00:08* And a Disney cruise is obviously like the place you want to take kids. *00:08* Yeah. *00:08* Like the the look on their faces was that *00:08* Like it's sad that things are going away, but I think it's important to try and save it. *00:08* He he was a trailblaze in that space. *00:08* And I obviously have a note full of podcast ideas, and I finally was *00:08* Are you sure you need that one? *00:08* And I've been having so much fun with this thing. *00:08* And they're just *00:08* He wanted him, you know *00:08* And even actually talking to him once in a day is uh slightly unusual, but I I still love my dad very much *00:08* And so here's hoping I can keep stick with it. *00:08* And that wasn't a very good sell, but it was an honest sell. *00:08* I have a fully desk. *00:08* That's right. *00:08* In any of the parks, all of 'em. *00:08* I always thought that was super fun. *00:08* And especially if you're the kind of person that can get over the fact that you are making a *00:08* They're eating like the shrimp. *00:08* Um it's great. *00:08* Yep. *00:08* You can have every bit of art, every bit of music. *00:08* It's if the PS5's out, they're gonna sh it's all gonna go. *00:08* That's I mean it's still tiny in the grand scheme of things, but quite a bit larger than I thought it might be. *00:08* And no spoilers. *00:08* It's an absolute pleasure, and certainly *00:08* I appreciate you having me on. *00:08* I'm on it. *00:08* Um and and this this is probably not apples to apples, but nevertheless it is extremely cool to see. *00:08* Like it it's a real object in some way that translates to what you're seeing on screen. *00:08* And when someone gets added, um it bugs me if they don't have an image. *00:08* You cannot play this Destiny at launch back in the day. *00:08* Fun stuff. *00:08* I he passed away uh when my mom was like a teenager, so I never actually knew him *00:08* It is so *00:08* I haven't done it yet. *00:08* And and that's what I loved so much about it. *00:08* I saw that. *00:08* Yeah I can show him *00:08* But I just it didn't click. *00:08* Because I feel like now when I watch an actual like a race race *00:08* You know, it only took Yeah, it's exactly right. *00:08* for the NES, 41 kilobytes. *00:08* But *00:08* And this was also right before the new video game consoles came out. *00:08* Yeah, I Aaron and I have joked, or at least I think we're joking. *00:08* I don't remember exactly when it was. *00:08* I have I have a lot of fun with it. *00:08* So th I wanted there's one more thing about F1. *00:08* Oh yep. *00:08* Absolutely. *00:08* And so whenever you do come back *00:08* And seeing how the parks grew and expanded and his vision for *00:08* Same thing. *00:08* Um but *00:08* It's race day. *00:08* And I actually think *00:08* But there is a race actually on my birthday weekend this year. *00:08* It wouldn't surprise me if I was in the wrong part of Miami or was not in the right state of mind for Miami or perhaps am not worth. *00:08* They're on track. *00:08* And he it's funny actually, I'm I'm interrupting your segue here, but *00:08* Because it it's continually changing into these seasons. *00:08* And I if I did skip it, I do know. *00:08* There's no way to delete a picture. *00:08* I have been with *00:08* And we're like, well if we keep going in this direction, the only place to go is Florida. *00:08* Which bummer cause *00:08* And uh hopefully if the world is back to normal enough, we'll be doing it for Michaela's fifth in a couple years as well. *00:08* All right, th my final question for you and I I will answer it after I ask it to give you a chance to think. *00:08* So that is quite that is quite amusing. *00:09* Um *00:09* And I remember her being like *00:09* I want to mail it must have been iOS 4. *00:09* Yeah. *00:09* Now turn. *00:09* He's very fickle and and I don't know *00:09* Oh wow. *00:09* That's why t podcast killers there. *00:09* Yep. *00:09* That wasn't an out-of-the-question type thing to do. *00:09* At the time they cost five hundred dollars. *00:09* Um at this part I just want to say uh plug away. *00:09* Um and and *00:09* I actually plan on flying it this weekend. *00:09* I was almost run over by Michael Andretti as like a five-year-old. *00:09* Yeah, I actually um *00:09* And *00:09* Like are you a humongous dole whip fan or or th are there other eateries that you really like? *00:09* And there have been only a couple of times that I've had to say no. *00:09* And when I show it to people, they're like, I sh I took it over uh to my in-laws and they *00:09* That sounds crazy to me and we live in a day of satellite radio and and *00:09* They had more music, they had better mu it's great. *00:09* And I said, Orlando, and she just looked at me like *00:09* And it was freezing cold, which is exactly what we needed. *00:09* And I forget shoot, I can't remember what it was she said she would want to do. *00:09* Don't worry about it. *00:09* I've been going for years. *00:09* So I'm I'm at the tail end of season two now. *00:09* And we would go for the day and then come back. *00:09* Um do you? *00:09* In the span of I don't know, maybe it was a month, maybe it was six months. *00:09* And what I can do is, and what I have done, is I got myself a Raspberry Pi, which was like a *00:09* And I like to think and hope that that's not the case for me. *00:09* Um the other day my cousin *00:09* No spoilers. *00:09* So in the end it all worked out. *00:09* Um it's on the shelf. *00:09* I I can only imagine. *00:09* And all of these things were really understandable. *00:09* But then now uh they have you know Toy Storyland. *00:09* Woody's Roundup uh Roundup Rodeo Barbecue *00:09* But it's really just kind of a a ticking *00:09* I mean, that's his bread and butter. *00:09* And so I eventually, to use the Silicon Valley term, I sunset it. *00:09* And so *00:09* So there was snow and Christmas trees. *00:09* Yeah, I'm th I'm you're saying all this and I'm thinking of like the I'm walking through the park *00:09* And they've announced now that they're they're doing a PS VR two for the PS5 and they've revealed their controllers. *00:09* Uh there'll be a link to that in the show notes. *00:09* And I was prepared, but *00:09* So a great example of this is a lot of times we'll get talking about cars as we're off to do. *00:09* It's gonna sound really cool. *00:09* So *00:09* I would never want to spoil *00:09* And I think for famous people and places and things, that's a bit *00:09* So BR Guest, yes. *00:09* Um but a big I pay uh I play a small part in a much bigger thing and it's just *00:09* So I would love to *00:09* And it's a lot of fun. *00:09* I she also, again, my wife *00:09* Um they're an absolute treat. *00:09* I've been telling myself that *00:09* No, that is ex no sarcasm at all. *00:09* And it helped me anyway. *00:09* So it's not like we're going over to a friend's house to try it out. *00:09* I w *00:09* But *00:09* Yeah, yeah. *00:09* So I guess *00:09* Anyway, all this to say is *00:09* Um or not ads, um deals like to buy new TVs *00:09* It's Pika View. *00:09* And um *00:09* Um I just I find that stuff interesting and *00:09* Creepy stuff. *00:09* Um *00:09* And one of my favorite memories as a kid *00:09* And uh in the same way *00:09* Like he's not *00:09* Because *00:09* fm slash membership, right? *00:09* Mm-hmm. *00:09* And um, and it was *00:09* Um not not a mini like like I have. *00:09* I was curious how *00:09* So we're trying to do what we can *00:09* No spoilers. *00:09* So they have this kind of um *00:09* So for me *00:09* Yep. *00:09* And as someone who is an engineer, as someone who loves cars, as someone who loves technology *00:10* It just uh didn't work for me until it did. *00:10* Unless you happen to have like a the most open floor plan, you know, house or apartment that's ever been built. *00:10* So I'm learning *00:10* Just entertainment in general, you know? *00:10* And I'm trying to keep myself *00:10* Um thank see and *00:10* And and you know, everything everything is a r everything is a remix, right? *00:10* And so the way I had used it was *00:10* I'm very jealous. *00:10* All she remembers are the shrimp and all this. *00:10* And *00:10* Absolutely 100%. *00:10* Sorry. *00:10* can emulate these old computers. *00:10* You can check out the rest of these episodes. *00:10* Uh vignette was an app that you made. *00:10* Like I can't afford all of these things, let alone the games. *00:10* And we're extremely lucky for that. *00:10* Mm-hmm. *00:10* How can you go wrong? *00:10* It was mm a couple of weeks, maybe a month after it was released. *00:10* I I haven't had the opportunity. *00:10* Uh huh. *00:10* Okay. *00:10* And I think *00:10* I would I would argue it's not a lot. *00:10* He was like s uh I was like I already know what we're buy which one to buy, all this stuff. *00:10* I never knew there was a lake. *00:10* And what I love about Drive to Survive is that *00:10* Anyway, you brought up that you had bought uh for your kids *00:10* But this whole idea of like this augmented reality gaming *00:10* And so *00:10* However *00:10* But *00:10* Um exactly. *00:10* Oh this is this is right up my alley. *00:10* I'm I'm so very, very excited. *00:10* But *00:10* Um *00:10* I just met my wit's end. *00:10* That's what's coming through. *00:10* But *00:10* Uh that being said, I'm uh I'm an aspiring *00:10* 5K. *00:10* Yeah. *00:10* Sounds like a pretty big wave. *00:10* Because certainly *00:10* You're just playing for money. *00:10* You know, here's where we're registered. *00:10* That's actually a really great idea because so I've transitioned from *00:10* And *00:10* And it's funny you talk about, you know, being in or around indie *00:10* 2 and 3 and so on. *00:10* I might be making this up. *00:10* And that's *00:10* And I cannot encourage you enough *00:10* It's on the list. *00:10* So good. *00:10* It seems cool. *00:10* Probably. *00:10* Uh-huh. *00:10* And the obvious way to to make a membership *00:10* But at the time I didn't know that. *00:10* And so *00:10* That's the uh that's the official name. *00:10* And you never *00:10* And *00:10* And I might be getting these details a little wrong, but you get my point. *00:10* And like I I I will always remember playing Wii sports and thinking *00:10* And and so you you feel *00:10* Um *00:10* But *00:10* And it's just *00:10* But *00:10* And I did. *00:10* Like what is what is having this around *00:10* Oh my god. *00:10* You know it it's *00:10* And and I hope *00:10* I forget exactly what the Mini 1 was. *00:10* Now we've got um *00:10* And now Twitter does what Clubhouse does, so it's all it's all fine in the end. *00:10* But I do *00:11* And that was *00:11* And it was just extremely powerful and I *00:11* But similarly, I was *00:11* So I'm my goal is to *00:11* People just call me an old man. *00:11* I'm I'm honestly excited to experience that myself someday with *00:11* How does that make you like feel think? *00:11* But I respect it. *00:11* And uh golly, I can't wait to go back. *00:11* I'm the thing. *00:11* Oh no way up until I was uh *00:11* They were doing tests or something. *00:11* So it's fascinating *00:11* That's what he's been doing for *00:11* Um she made me *00:11* And you as I honestly think a very smart *00:11* It's nothing *00:11* It reminds me of, you know, occasionally *00:11* I I honestly couldn't tell you what time it was *00:11* And I think that that what we're seeing with Home Circuit *00:11* And *00:11* He's a huge Star Wars fan, Abby *00:11* And *00:11* And you if you if you offer something *00:11* It's awesome. *00:11* Uh I cannot *00:11* You can find my writing at maxfrequency. *00:11* You *00:11* And and it's it's something as silly as *00:11* So I I don't *00:11* Uh several years ago now *00:11* But *00:11* You know, it's like *00:11* Um *00:11* She is *00:11* It's just beautiful and you're all wrapped it's uh *00:11* I'm not sure if we're joking. *00:11* Yeah, the biggest game in the world. *00:11* And I t took a good, honest *00:11* I remember *00:11* But things l along those lines and *00:11* And I don't think that that generally happens *00:11* It's a big deal. *00:11* I feel like it was more than a month and probably less than six, but *00:11* And *00:11* So uh *00:11* I *00:11* That's that we *00:11* Anyway. *00:11* Yeah. *00:11* It's just not convenient for them *00:11* And that's a *00:11* And you know *00:11* To which I believe I said, uh yeah. *00:11* And and you had said that you have one as well, right? *00:11* I really don't think it would have clicked *00:11* It is and *00:11* You know that's that *00:11* I *00:12* And *00:12* And it's also a great way to cool down too. *00:12* I am already excited. *00:12* That's both *00:12* I was like, I need to *00:12* So *00:12* None of that is involved. *00:12* Like thing, you know, just things from his life and *00:12* Uh *00:12* And I just feel *00:12* And so *00:12* I'm so sorry *00:12* Um because the idea of going *00:12* But *00:12* So I knew what like specs *00:12* You also write your own *00:12* Like there are the study *00:12* She's telling me this today and I'm like *00:12* But *00:12* Of course. *00:12* But *00:12* I mean I didn't know what she didn't know, I didn't know. *00:12* Um and he loved it. *00:12* But *00:12* And I think Mario Kart's a perfect *00:12* And *00:12* Yeah *00:12* Um *00:12* Uh *00:12* I don't know *00:12* So I think about *00:12* So that sounds about right, Dr. *00:12* sys and autoexec. *00:12* And so *00:12* We'd like your money now, please. *00:12* And then um *00:12* So thank you for that. *00:13* Um *00:13* So that when you get the tater tots from *00:13* I forget. *00:13* Um *00:13* I *00:13* Not because *00:13* And so *00:13* net. *00:13* Yeah. *00:13* But um *00:13* So *00:14* So *00:14* Just *00:14* bat *00:14* And *00:14* And *00:14*