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Max 00:00 Hello everybody and welcome to the Max Frequency Podcast.
Max 00:03 I am your host, Max Roberts, and I have the honor and privilege of being joined this time by
Max 00:10 YouTuber, essayist, Nintendo fan, Kohana.
Max 00:15 Hello.
Max 00:16 How how's it going, buddy?
Kohana 00:18 Hey, I'm doing pretty good.
Max 00:20 Uh we are uh we met and we're friends in uh Brian Hankins' little video essay as Discord.
Max 00:27 That's where we met uh through Brian and you uh
Max 00:31 And I have been talking recently because we both reviewed Mina the Hollower.
Max 00:36 And I was like, well, we should do a show about that.
Max 00:38 And then I finished Mina the Hollower.
Max 00:41 I was like, we should talk about other things too.
Kohana 00:44 Yeah
Max 00:45 Um so it's great to have you here on the show.
Max 00:48 I'm excited and I thought that we could start with
Max 00:53 the Nintendo Direct that just happened a week ago, I guess, as we were recording uh their annual E3 shebang
Kohana 01:00 Yeah, absolutely.
Max 01:02 Before we dig into actually you and your work and and then uh and then end with Mina was what I kind of thought.
Max 01:08 So the direct.
Max 01:10 Kohana, what do you think?
Max 01:12 Overall, vibe from the direct
Kohana 01:15 So, like
Kohana 01:17 I'm coming at this from the perspective of like Nintendo games that I want to see, and then also like how good I think the third-party announcements are, not necessarily like how likely I am to buy them, I guess.
Kohana 01:30 But from that perspective, I thought the show was awesome.
Kohana 01:34 I really liked it, and I was very surprised to see the perception online be like decidedly negative, you know.
Kohana 01:42 I really liked all the Nintendo announcements.
Kohana 01:45 Well, most of them.
Kohana 01:47 The Xenoblade stuff was like the absolute highlight for me.
Kohana 01:50 I don't know if I've like said this really anywhere, but I'm like a huge Xenoblade fan
Kohana 01:55 And so like that blowout of the Switch 2 uh editions and then like the Genesis announcement to cap it off was like pure euphoria.
Kohana 02:04 I I don't know that I've popped off that hard at an announcement in quite a while
Kohana 02:09 Um we did get an update on Dusk Bloods, but that was like pretty lackluster.
Max 02:14 That was That was so strange, right?
Kohana 02:15 We got the neckwort test coming, so I guess that's something.
Max 02:20 It was like they keep doubling down that it's this year.
Kohana 02:21 Yeah.
Max 02:24 Like the uh every time it comes up and then like there's gonna be a network test.
Max 02:30 Cool.
Max 02:32 I was like, oh my gosh, what's going on?
Kohana 02:32 Yeah.
Kohana 02:35 Yeah, not being able to see more of the game was really disappointing, but I was just happy that they confirmed that it is in fact coming in 2026.
Kohana 02:43 Because I was a little worried that it might get delayed.
Kohana 02:45 But um yeah, those are probably like my two biggest games I was excited for there.
Kohana 02:51 Um Kingdom Hearts 4 was like awesome to see there.
Kohana 02:54 I was not expecting that at all.
Max 02:55 I don't think anyone was.
Kohana 02:56 And then, yeah, like the game looked really cool.
Kohana 02:59 And then we got like the ports on top of that.
Kohana 03:01 And then we got the uh Ocarina of Time remake at the end.
Kohana 03:06 And
Kohana 03:07 Shh, I don't really know how I feel about it yet.
Kohana 03:09 I think I need to see more.
Max 03:10 Yes, I agree.
Max 03:11 We need to see more.
Max 03:12 It what what's interesting about Ocarina
Max 03:17 is obviously the n the leak from Nate the Hate a couple of months ago.
Max 03:21 Uh, which when Star Fox was announced in I guess May, I think is when it happened.
Max 03:27 uh all but confirmed that the Ocarina part of that was also true.
Max 03:31 And I guess the other things that he leaked as well at the time, which included, I think, that 3D Mario was for 27, which is interesting given
Max 03:41 Nintendo didn't show that in any capacity.
Max 03:45 Um, and I forget the other thing that he mentioned was next year.
Max 03:48 I'd have to look it up, but basically I believe everything that he said and
Max 03:55 Given that the game leaked in that way, the community anyone tapped in knew about it
Max 04:03 And I think that set the expectation of, oh, we're going to see like the game.
Kohana 04:04 Yeah.
Max 04:09 We're gonna see
Max 04:12 The Irol Field, the Deku tree, we're gonna we're gonna see all these things.
Max 04:15 And we got a tapestry and Link sleeping.
Max 04:21 And so
Max 04:24 What should have been a huge pop-off, like celebratory moment, had totally the wind sucked out of its sails because of the leak and then the expectations that all of our minds kind of cooked up, but
Max 04:37 The game is slated for this year.
Max 04:40 And personally, my my theory is that Nintendo's gonna have the chops to put it out in November.
Max 04:47 Um
Kohana 04:47 Yeah, I agree.
Max 04:49 I think I don't well business wise, yes, they do care, like they're aware of GTA.
Max 04:56 I don't think that
Max 04:58 I think Nintendo has like the uh the gusto to go say, you will buy us two.
Max 05:04 Like I know you'll buy GTA, but you'll also buy Ocarina of Time.
Max 05:07 And then also they also are targeting kids who aren't getting GTA.
Max 05:12 So there's that whole other market that's just not gonna
Max 05:15 be tap you know tapped into by GTA.
Max 05:17 So I think it's November for the holiday sales.
Max 05:20 And if you think so November, and it's June now, so July, August, September, October, November.
Max 05:25 That's five months.
Max 05:27 So probably in the September direct here in three months is when we'll kind of get the full reveal right after the price increase of the console.
Max 05:37 Um
Max 05:39 Is when they'll they'll tell us Ocarina of Times an eighty dollar game.
Kohana 05:44 I didn't think about that.
Kohana 05:46 That seems very likely, because that that would be a game that would probably prompt a lot of people to buy a Switch too.
Max 05:51 I think I suspect the September direct will be quite packed with
Kohana 05:58 Yeah,
Max 05:59 games kind of Nintendo's directs the past few years have been very
Max 06:07 Looking ahead at the next six to eight months with maybe one or two titles that are outside of that window, like this direct, that would be Xenoblade Genesis, right?
Max 06:18 That just has a 27 date.
Max 06:21 But we don't see a 3D Mario here.
Max 06:24 We don't see a Metroid or Animal Crossing for Pete's sake.
Max 06:30 Um they really have kept everything within a six to eight month window, which is
Max 06:35 You know, we got Mario Kart World and Donkey Kong Bonanza in that way.
Max 06:40 Metroid Prime 4 also kinda in that way, like the way the lead up to that game's final release there.
Max 06:47 So the September one though, given the price increase and how they're going to want to keep moving units, I think that one we could see like here's the 3D Mario.
Kohana 07:01 Oh yeah, absolutely.
Kohana 07:02 I would bank like all my money on uh that happening that that direct for sure.
Max 07:08 It just you wanna put something there that's gonna because I think the price bump's only fifty dollars and I
Max 07:14 That's still a lot of money that makes the switch to 450 or is it 450 and 5?
Max 07:21 No, the bundle's already 500.
Max 07:23 I forget how much a switch two costs.
Kohana 07:24 Yep.
Kohana 07:25 So it's four fifty for the base model.
Max 07:27 Right now?
Kohana 07:29 Yeah.
Max 07:29 Okay, so it'll bump it up to five and five fifty then, I think, is what the uh the goodness gracious.
Kohana 07:32 Yep.
Max 07:35 Um
Max 07:36 And you know what?
Max 07:37 They'll probably also at that direct drop a Zelda themed Switch 2.
Max 07:41 That will be 550 or 580.
Max 07:46 Um, that'll maybe like have a hint of gold under the Joy-Con too.
Max 07:50 Uh thumbsticks.
Kohana 07:51 Yeah, th they got me with the OLED, the Tears of the Kingdom one, and the Switch one.
Max 07:52 So Yep.
Kohana 07:56 Uh I think they might get me again.
Max 07:56 That was my
Max 07:58 I already had the Splatoon 3 OLED, and then I bought the Tears of the Kingdom OLED.
Max 08:05 Uh I have a problem, but yeah, I'm
Kohana 08:06 Um
Max 08:09 We'll see what happens.
Max 08:10 But I kind of suspect that this September direct will pop.
Max 08:12 But this June direct I I I it had nothing for me personally.
Max 08:20 There was a lot of
Max 08:22 Swords and RPGs.
Max 08:24 Like I've uh I've never played a Xenoblade.
Max 08:27 They don't they don't strike me at all.
Max 08:29 Like not
Max 08:31 Nothing about them looks my speed.
Max 08:33 I do have X for Wii U, but I bought that when I was kind of just filling out a Wii U collection and it hadn't been ported to Switch yet.
Max 08:40 Um so there's nothing like I mean I don't need Minecraft Fire Emblem.
Kohana 08:40 Yeah.
Max 08:48 I it seems too much persona-e now.
Max 08:51 I don't know.
Max 08:53 It seemed uh it's too much anime, I think.
Max 08:55 Um there's what a Dragon Quest Monsters, uh a new one.
Max 09:02 Splatoon Raiders, I still don't really
Max 09:06 understand that game.
Max 09:07 It it needs I think they said it's getting its own direct.
Kohana 09:08 Me neither.
Max 09:11 Um
Kohana 09:11 Yeah.
Kohana 09:11 I was like kind of interested in it when it was announced just as like a single player campaign because I I have never been able to get into the multiplayer of those games.
Kohana 09:19 But like I don't know it it seems kind of too like grindy I guess like the whole gameplay loop is pretty much just like grinding from what I understand.
Kohana 09:28 So like I don't know if it'll really be my thing
Max 09:30 Yeah, I'm just because this the single player campaigns of particularly two and three are phenomenal.
Max 09:38 They're they're actually like the secret
Kohana 09:38 Yeah.
Max 09:40 Galaxy games, like lost galaxy sequels.
Max 09:43 They're so good.
Max 09:44 And so a single-player Splatoon game sounds very interesting, but I'm not sure I want to like grind for materials and build bases
Max 09:52 Um, you know, I had the misfortune of doing the IGN guide for Metal Gear survive.
Max 09:59 Um
Kohana 09:59 Oh, what happens?
Max 10:00 Uh yeah.
Max 10:01 It it happens.
Max 10:02 You know, you can't you can't get all bangers.
Max 10:05 So and that it's very similar is like grind for materials, build your base.
Kohana 10:06 So
Max 10:09 kind of stop waves.
Max 10:11 So I'm just I I I'm curious.
Max 10:13 I need to know more about this game and I don't think they've done a very good job of selling it so far.
Max 10:19 So I'm curious.
Max 10:20 Um
Max 10:21 To see.
Max 10:21 Well the direct hopefully will help in that regard, but this direct just wasn't very
Max 10:29 this very selfish, very max focused at all.
Max 10:31 The only thing really that kinda like grabbed my attention was was Ocarina of Time and even Kingdom Hearts Four, which I love
Max 10:40 the the Kingdom Hearts games.
Max 10:41 I'm a huge a huge fan of them.
Max 10:44 Three, I I kind of soured a little bit uh at the end of three.
Max 10:49 I'm not feeling anything for four and seeing having the new reveal be Switch 2 footage didn't really sell me on it visually.
Max 11:01 So I'm like torn there as well.
Max 11:04 It just kind of felt like a a stinker direct if you're not into RPGs um or games with swords and and dragons and knights and things
Max 11:15 Or anime, I I this direct just wasn't for you.
Max 11:19 And I think because they're focusing on the next six to eight months in these direct
Max 11:23 it kind of hurts the longevity and the promise of the console in a way.
Max 11:28 I don't want I don't want a prime four situation where we wait seven, eight years.
Max 11:32 But I think some, you know, a little tease like an Animal Crossing is in the works and
Max 11:40 Oh, here's, you know, Punch Out or Kid Icarus.
Max 11:43 Gosh, here's a new Kirby game for any you know, just something.
Kohana 11:48 Yeah, I do agree actually.
Kohana 11:49 I think like, you know, at the beginning of the Switch generation, I feel like a lot of the hype was from for games like Metroid and Yoshi and stuff that were like upcoming for a really long time.
Kohana 12:00 Switch 2 hasn't really had that yet.
Kohana 12:01 It's been like they've been very disciplined with when they choose to reveal stuff, which is like good, I guess, if you're following every like move that Nintendo makes, but like
Kohana 12:11 It'd be nice to have like some game to just like be like, man, that's coming out someday, you know?
Kohana 12:17 And like just get people talking.
Max 12:19 It's a tough balance because you think I think back to maybe the early early to mid PS4 generation where they were announcing stuff years out.
Max 12:28 Last of Us Part Two, God of War 2018, Days Gone, you know, just all sorts of stuff was just out and like known.
Kohana 12:28 Yeah.
Max 12:37 It was like, okay, this is what this studio is working on, this is what this studio is working on, like we know.
Max 12:41 Now we have to wait.
Max 12:42 And Sony padded that with third and second party support very well.
Max 12:47 So I don't want things announced too far ahead, but I also want
Max 12:51 And having things announced close is fun.
Max 12:54 Ocarina of Time.
Max 12:56 That being out in five months is incredible.
Max 12:58 I remember I think it was Fallout 4, kinda got that treatment as well, where it was like Todd came out and was like, and it's out later this year.
Max 13:04 I was like, whoa.
Kohana 13:06 Yeah.
Max 13:06 Those are cool, but we do need some things further out.
Kohana 13:07 Those are cool.
Max 13:10 And Nintendo, like we said, like Xenoblade Genesis.
Max 13:14 F Fire Emblem Fortunes Weave was that game.
Max 13:16 They announced that um last year, I believe.
Max 13:19 And so like that people have been waiting for that game, and so that's exciting.
Max 13:24 I d I think we just need a little bit more and a little bit more diversity, like in that sense.
Max 13:30 Um I know Tears of the Kingdom was a long lead, and Zelda usually does get announced far in advance.
Max 13:36 But I think we just need a little bit more.
Max 13:38 Um so far the switch 2's kind of following the 3DS cycle.
Max 13:44 And I don't just mean that because we have Star Fox 64 and Ocarine of Time again on the console, but
Max 13:51 The launch library had certain big titles and then third party support.
Max 13:56 And then now we're we're getting kind of
Max 13:59 old games brought back and forward and so I'm curious what's gonna be new and kind of pave the way forward, but I'm I'm confident in Nintendo's ability to deliver.
Max 14:10 Um and I'm certainly not short of any games to play.
Kohana 14:13 Yeah, that was my main thing too.
Kohana 14:15 Like I think if I only had a switch this direct
Kohana 14:19 might have been a little more disappointing to me.
Kohana 14:22 Like, as much as um a ton of the third-party games that were announced, I think are really great, like Metaphor, DMC5, Onimusha's coming to Switch, like all that stuff.
Kohana 14:33 It's all awesome, but if I was like only really here for the Nintendo announcements and I didn't have like a ton of other stuff I could be playing, yeah, I think like even though a lot of this stuff is to my taste, I would probably
Kohana 14:44 be a little let down.
Kohana 14:46 Um and I I'm not gonna argue at all that like even though this direct was basically made for me, I definitely could have appreciated some more diversity
Kohana 14:55 I would have loved to see like a little taste of a new Metroid or something, or like even a 3D Mario teaser or what have you, you know.
Max 15:03 Yeah, it just heck, I would have taken even just different uh Nintendo Switch 2 enhanced editions.
Max 15:10 Gimme
Max 15:11 An enhanced edition for Thousand Year Door.
Max 15:13 Just give me 4K60 on that game, and I'll be super duper happy.
Max 15:16 Like that would have popped for that.
Max 15:18 A paper Mario Tease would have been great.
Kohana 15:18 Yeah, that would be awesome.
Max 15:22 So it's
Max 15:23 It's an interesting lull.
Max 15:25 I am expecting a lot in the September direct, not so much like personally, I just think business-wise it's gonna make sense because they're gonna have this kind of hit with the price increase.
Max 15:38 So I feel like they're gonna amp up the promise of the console a little bit there, which will be exciting to see.
Max 15:46 I mean, it did just turn one and
Max 15:49 I do love it.
Max 15:50 I just started playing Echoes of Wisdom actually for the first time.
Max 15:54 Cause so it came out so late, right?
Max 15:57 And I was like, well I will wait and see about the Batcompat situation.
Max 16:01 And the Bat Compat solved the stuttery frame rate, so it's a nice locked
Max 16:06 you know, 60 FPS upscale to 4K, so it just looks super clean and crisp.
Max 16:12 Um I'm having a very good time with that.
Max 16:14 So see the backlog serves me well.
Kohana 16:18 Yeah, Echoes of Wisdom.
Kohana 16:20 Um, I need to revisit that game.
Kohana 16:21 I played it like at launch and I was like, Yeah, this is cool and then like didn't really think about it again after I beat it.
Max 16:27 Well I was I was thinking about it.
Max 16:30 Um well A I was playing it because
Max 16:32 I just I it was on my list to play this year, but also this past week, uh, as I was kind of preparing the show notes, I was watching your Link's Awakening.
Max 16:41 retrospective, which uses primarily footage from the Switch remake, uh remaster of the game.
Max 16:48 Is I guess remake completely different visual assets um and style.
Kohana 16:48 Mm-hmm.
Kohana 16:51 Yeah, that's what they call it.
Max 16:52 Yeah, I would call it a remake
Max 16:54 Uh I was watching that and it got me thinking about Echoes of Wisdom and I was kind of surprised I didn't see a video from you on it because you've got uh
Max 17:02 Other games that have kind of sequel things as well.
Max 17:05 So this will now be the part where we talk about your channel, Kohana.
Max 17:10 Um, very Nintendo focused.
Max 17:13 Which is great.
Max 17:14 I love it.
Max 17:15 It's not a ton of videos.
Max 17:17 I w which I would I'm slightly surprised about simply just the subscriber count and the reach of some of your videos.
Max 17:25 I mean you've got
Max 17:26 some very popular big videos that I remember seeing thumbnails for and all that sort of stuff before we met, especially your Mario Kart retrospective, which is I believe your most popular video at a four hundred and ten thousand view.
Max 17:40 Yeah, 410,000 views.
Max 17:43 Um, I've definitely seen your work before I met you virtually.
Max 17:47 And so I'm surprised to only see, you know, what is that, nine, twelve?
Max 17:52 15, 18, 21, I mean 30 or fewer videos.
Max 17:56 That's this is very impressive little catalog and it's very tight.
Max 18:01 Like it's very digestible.
Max 18:03 Like if someone was new to your channel, they could come in and kind of get the full experience and really be caught up in a in a good way.
Max 18:10 So I guess first is props to you, buddy.
Kohana 18:13 Thank you.
Kohana 18:14 I appreciate all that.
Kohana 18:15 It's kinda like a uh reframe my perspective on a lot of how I do stuff just in that that little paragraph.
Max 18:21 Well, I try.
Max 18:24 It is funny though, uh I'll I'll share this little anecdote.
Max 18:28 before I get into my first real question.
Max 18:29 So I'm watching your first video on listed on the channel is a review of Stray, the cat game, which is a game that was on my annual list last year and I started it and I just did not like it.
Max 18:40 Um
Max 18:41 I was just not feeling it at the time.
Max 18:43 And then I watched your video and it reminded me and I was like, you know what?
Max 18:46 I really am not gonna play that game.
Max 18:48 And so I traded it in the other day.
Max 18:50 Be your video.
Max 18:52 So
Max 18:52 Your video on Stray is very good.
Max 18:54 My taste of Stray was not.
Max 18:56 Um But I think that kind of actually leads really well into my kind of first question for you, which is
Max 19:05 What to you is the difference between a retrospective and a review?
Max 19:10 You've got some videos in here listed as a review.
Max 19:13 You're stray.
Max 19:15 Stray review.
Max 19:16 You've kind of got like, I would consider your Bellatra one a review, although review like a brief review for Mario Kart World.
Max 19:24 You've got Metro Prime 4 is underwhelming.
Max 19:28 I haven't played Donkey Kong Bonanza yet, so I haven't seen your video on that yet.
Max 19:32 I'm trying to keep all the spoilers as minimal for me as that as possible, but
Max 19:35 I imagine that's semi-review-ish, uh, your hollow night.
Kohana 19:38 Yeah.
Max 19:40 But then you've got retrospective.
Max 19:42 You've got Prime, one, two, three, you've got
Max 19:46 uh all of the 3D Mario games.
Max 19:49 You've got Donkey Kong Country.
Max 19:51 So like to you, what's that difference between retrospective and review?
Kohana 19:57 Yeah, I mean a lot of it is like kind of vibes.
Kohana 20:01 So in my head
Kohana 20:02 I think of like a review as like typical like game outlet, just like examining a game from like a a a general view and then like
Kohana 20:13 assessing whether or not it's like worth the money and like the overall quality of it as like summarized by a number or whatever.
Kohana 20:20 And then retrospective I think is more of like
Kohana 20:22 kind of an artsier, longer form, more in-depth take on that where you you're not really focused on like the the value judgment of it as like a piece of um
Kohana 20:34 like a like a a thing you purchase, but rather like an artistic experience.
Kohana 20:39 And so I think that's kind of like the line for me generally, but it definitely blurs.
Kohana 20:44 Like
Kohana 20:45 I would consider my Hollow Knight video, even though it like doesn't have retrospective in the title, that'd be more of like a retrospective.
Kohana 20:52 Um Donkey Kong Bonanza would probably be more like a review.
Kohana 20:56 Um
Kohana 20:58 Let's see.
Kohana 20:59 I actually have playlists on my channel that like list out what I consider to be a retrospective and what I consider to be a review like in the moment.
Max 21:06 Oh, interesting.
Kohana 21:07 Um I think yeah, a lot of it also has to do with like
Max 21:07 I didn't even see that.
Kohana 21:11 How current the game is.
Kohana 21:13 So like if you notice a lot of my reviews are like games that came out in the last like year or two.
Max 21:13 Hmm.
Kohana 21:18 So yeah, I think that's probably like the main thing is like when I'm when I'm thinking about making a review
Kohana 21:24 It's like I want to get my thoughts quickly out there on like a game that's current that just like I felt compelled to write about.
Kohana 21:30 Um a retrospective would be more like
Kohana 21:33 I have a lot I want to say about this older game and like how uh it is like informed my perspective on something or just have takes I want to share or whatever.
Kohana 21:44 Um so that's kind of the line for me, I think.
Max 21:48 That's inter see I always think of a review more like the old IGN reviews.
Max 21:55 I don't know if you were
Max 21:57 you've read like s older IGN reviews, but they were pages long, super detailed, like went into the nitty gritty of the game.
Max 22:05 Um and then obviously gave like a score.
Max 22:07 Like their their old Grand Theft Auto reviews, for example, are pages long that just like really soak up the game.
Max 22:15 And
Max 22:17 Um I never think of a review, I guess, as whether or not it's gonna determine if I buy something.
Max 22:26 Like I d I don't l when I write a review, I'm not thinking about the cost of it a to me or to the the reader.
Max 22:35 I th
Max 22:37 To me a review is like, well, I if I'm reading or watching a review from someone, either someone has told me that that like this piece is good.
Max 22:47 like this uh the Mario tennis uh video or not video the review I read the other month when that game came out that like that was a beautiful piece.
Max 22:57 Uh now I have to find it so I can mention it
Max 23:00 But so there's the that one is the best Mario Sports game ever made by Jake Steinberg.
Max 23:07 Uh it's a superb review.
Max 23:08 There will be a link in the show notes for everyone to go read that.
Max 23:11 So good.
Max 23:12 And
Max 23:14 Yeah, so I'm not thinking about the price of it ever, but it's interesting that you would like your MENA review, obviously that one's a little bit different because that was under an embargo is early access code, like you want to get it out close.
Max 23:27 And so that the price is a factor there, I think, because you're trying to th they want the review out soon so that it can help convince people to buy the game is is kind of the idea there and the dynamic and relationship.
Kohana 23:37 Right.
Max 23:39 But then you go to
Max 23:41 Donkey Kong Bonanza, that was like seven months ago.
Max 23:46 So that was like six, five, six months after the game came out.
Max 23:50 So it's like it's not late enough to be a retrospective, but it's not
Max 23:54 Is it influencing a purchase?
Max 23:56 I don't know.
Max 23:57 That's a good spin that I hadn't really considered before.
Kohana 24:01 Yeah, I think I think my Mina video is probably the only one where I've really like factored that into my script where it's like you should or should not buy this.
Kohana 24:09 A lot of times I just kind of treat my reviews as like
Kohana 24:12 shorter uh retrospectives pretty much.
Kohana 24:15 Like I think honestly the main thing that determines it for me is like the length of the video and like what I feel like I'm bringing to the conversation
Max 24:23 That's yeah, because some of your videos, dude
Max 24:26 I mean b uh barring the uh complete series retrospective, which is five hours, but that's just um, you know, compilation.
Kohana 24:31 Five hours, but that's just nomination.
Max 24:33 You got some long videos in here, dude.
Kohana 24:34 Yeah.
Max 24:36 You know?
Kohana 24:36 Oh yeah.
Max 24:37 Uh what's the
Max 24:40 What's editing one of those like?
Max 24:42 You got hours, here's 70 minutes, here's uh eighty, oh god, it's almost two hours for Mario Kart, but that's every game, you know.
Max 24:53 What are you gonna do?
Kohana 24:53 Yeah.
Kohana 24:55 Yeah, so like I think the worst part for me is
Kohana 24:59 editing my voiceover.
Kohana 25:02 So like I I do things in like a very like um segmented process, I guess, where I like
Kohana 25:07 I do all of the writing pretty much and then I record all of it and then I edit all of the audio like on its own.
Kohana 25:14 So then I just export it into like WAV files, and then I bring those into the editing timeline.
Kohana 25:19 And then that's where I like actually assemble the video.
Max 25:21 Yeah.
Kohana 25:21 Editing audio is just awful.
Kohana 25:23 It takes so long and it's just like really not engaging.
Kohana 25:27 Um I like constructing the actual video a little more because you can throw in some background music.
Kohana 25:33 That's where you like kind of dictate the pacing.
Kohana 25:35 Pick your visuals, etc.
Kohana 25:37 Um, so I I really enjoy the process of like actually editing one of the videos, but yeah, I think like
Kohana 25:46 Actually, doing the video part of it does not take as long as you might think.
Kohana 25:51 If I'm like really dedicated to editing, I can knock out like 25 minutes of the final video in like one day
Kohana 25:59 Um so that's why I kind of try to keep my uh my like editing really simplistic.
Kohana 26:05 Um just to, you know, save myself the headache of like
Kohana 26:09 meticulously combing clips for very specific moments that I want to look perfect or whatever.
Kohana 26:14 I just kinda like let my script do most of the talking and the the video is just the background
Max 26:20 Yeah, like a visual aid to go along with.
Kohana 26:21 Yeah, I'm just gonna do that.
Kohana 26:22 Yeah, exactly.
Max 26:23 Punch in a put a clip in where it's like relevant, but keep it
Max 26:28 not stress it out too much.
Kohana 26:30 Yeah, I don't really try to do anything too fancy other than maybe some transitions.
Max 26:34 I've been known to get too fancy.
Max 26:36 It's it's a curse.
Max 26:37 Um
Kohana 26:38 Yeah.
Max 26:40 But that's good.
Max 26:41 It's uh it's good to have that vision of what you want to deliver and not
Max 26:51 get caught up in the semantics or or or the tools of it.
Max 26:55 I I fall victim to this a lot where it's like
Max 26:59 I forget that you don't need the fanciest or best tools to do a thing.
Max 27:03 You just need to make the thing.
Max 27:06 And I I personally will let a lot of
Max 27:10 tools or systems or whatever get in the way of the actual creation.
Max 27:14 And it it sounds like you don't let, you know, oh, I gotta have it in
Max 27:19 I gotta have this specific shot at this angle or this time or I gotta replay this to get this specific clip, like to make it visually uh perfect.
Max 27:29 You
Max 27:30 You like you said, you let the script, the VO do the talking.
Kohana 27:35 Yeah, I'm very much not a perfectionist and really anything I do.
Kohana 27:39 Um like I I'm I'm more than happy to like maybe mess up like a s part of the script or like a voiceover or have an edit not come out the way I wanted to exactly and then be like, okay, I'll just learn for that, uh learn from that for the future.
Kohana 27:53 Um and you know, of course I want my stuff to like be as good as I can possibly make it, but like if I make a mistake or whatever, I'm not like stressing over it and
Kohana 28:01 I think it's better to just have something out there that maybe I have a couple qualms with, but is ultimately like people are going to resonate with than just something locked up in my my archives for years.
Max 28:14 Don't don't look at my archives.
Max 28:16 Um what so kind of on that thread then, what have you what's maybe been one of the biggest lessons you've learned in making these retrospectives, which feels like
Max 28:28 A lot of our friends in this Discord have done the retrospective, right?
Max 28:35 Like great work, all of them.
Max 28:37 I love them all.
Max 28:40 What if what have you learned in making these retrospectives from Prime?
Max 28:44 You've primarily primarily
Max 28:47 Done Metroid Prime, uh the 3D Mario's, and you have a Donkey Kong Country.
Max 28:52 Is that the whole series?
Max 28:53 I yes, you did the whole series.
Max 28:55 The thumbnail would tell me that.
Kohana 28:56 Yes, I did.
Kohana 28:57 That's the whole series.
Max 28:59 Man, that's that's a lot of Donkey Kong.
Max 29:02 Um what do you what do you feel like you've learned in uh in making these retrospectives?
Kohana 29:03 Oh yeah.
Max 29:11 Or the biggest lesson, the biggest lesson, I guess.
Kohana 29:14 Yeah, the biggest lesson.
Kohana 29:16 Um I think it's kind of what I said, like just not getting too caught up in the the minutiae of it all, and just like
Kohana 29:25 feeling confident enough in myself to put something out there um rather than like obsessing over the details and you know just just like learn from the experience of doing it and
Kohana 29:36 um just you know putting it out there for people to see.
Kohana 29:40 Um I've learned a lot about myself like writing these two, especially in the last like two years, um, where I try to get a little more like introspective with them as opposed to just like spouting out takes on games.
Kohana 29:51 I think it's like done a lot for my self-esteem, my confidence, my creativity.
Kohana 29:57 So yeah, I really cherish that I have the ability to do this and like have people actually watch.
Max 30:04 Yeah, it's it's really great.
Max 30:06 I think the personal angle is always what draws me into my favorite creators and their videos is
Max 30:15 I want to know what ties them to it.
Max 30:18 You know, I can I can go learn about Link's Awakening anywhere.
Max 30:23 I I can go read I have the I have the
Max 30:26 a Nintendo Power issue that talked all about Link's Awakening.
Max 30:28 I can go read that, you know?
Max 30:30 Or like I don't have to go far to find that.
Max 30:32 What I want to know is the story with the person behind it.
Max 30:35 And that's something that I always try to do when I'm making writing anything.
Max 30:40 Is is bring that personal angle is always something that I I really hold on to.
Max 30:46 Um I want to know for you
Max 30:52 Some of these retrospectives are individuals, like you have Prime 1, 2, 3, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine
Max 30:59 But then you've got Mario Kart retrospective, whole series.
Max 31:03 Donkey Khan, the whole series.
Max 31:05 And then later you did the complete
Max 31:09 Retrospective series for 3D Mario where you just kind of stitched all of your videos together, including new original content for 3D Land.
Max 31:17 Thank you for not forgetting a very good game.
Max 31:20 Um
Kohana 31:21 Yeah.
Max 31:22 So I'm curious going forward as you maybe tackle other games that are in series.
Max 31:33 What's the what do you f I guess What do you want to do more of?
Max 31:40 Do you want to do more full series retrospectives?
Max 31:42 Because I would suspect those take longer just naturally because you're playing
Max 31:46 XM, you know, way more games, right?
Max 31:48 Like, or do you want to focus more on single titles, like, and dig deep into individuals?
Kohana 31:56 So the Donkey Kong video has been like one of my favorites I've done probably.
Kohana 32:00 And I think going forward I would like to do more like series stuff like that.
Kohana 32:06 But a lot of the games I want to cover in the near future, it's just like not feasible.
Kohana 32:12 Um it's like yeah, the kind of kind of the pattern there was like
Kohana 32:16 Mario Kart, it's like short enough games that are fairly easy to cover that I didn't feel like I had a whole lot to say to warrant like individual videos for each one.
Kohana 32:25 And I kind of wanted to like
Kohana 32:26 build off of each one as I moved into the later series or into the later entries.
Kohana 32:31 So that's kind of the the theme there.
Kohana 32:33 Same with Donkey Kong.
Kohana 32:34 Like
Kohana 32:35 I probably could have justified whole videos on the first game and like tropical freeze, but I didn't really have a lot to say about the games like in between.
Max 32:43 You didn't have an hour plus on KittyCon
Kohana 32:47 I did not, unfortunately.
Kohana 32:48 You'll have to get that elsewhere.
Kohana 32:50 But uh yeah, I I thought I thought it just made more sense to like build off of what I had already talked about with DKC1 for like two, three returns and tropical freeze.
Kohana 32:59 So like
Kohana 32:59 You know, just package them all in one video.
Kohana 33:01 And they're short enough games on their own to where it wouldn't be like too bad.
Kohana 33:06 Funnily enough, that was actually like one of the smoothest processes I've ever had, like making a video, was the Donkey Kong one.
Max 33:12 Why do you think that is?
Kohana 33:12 I I I've whipped that together in like a month.
Kohana 33:15 Um, well, I think that one I focused more on just kind of talking about the games.
Kohana 33:21 I didn't have like a super
Kohana 33:23 um in-depth like thesis or anything.
Kohana 33:25 I really just wanted to like cover the games and talk about their atmospheres and like the progression of them.
Kohana 33:30 And so it was a pretty straightforward script to write.
Kohana 33:32 And then the games themselves are also pretty short.
Kohana 33:34 And I was also just like really in the mood to play them all back to back.
Kohana 33:38 So that made it easier.
Max 33:39 Okay.
Max 33:40 That actually how do you how do you play and how do you record your gameplay?
Max 33:45 This is something I'm always curious about.
Max 33:47 I'm a big old fat pixel snob, so I'm always like
Max 33:51 4K all the thing you know, I have a problem.
Max 33:54 Um, but I'm always curious what people do.
Max 33:56 I've had people on here who do emulation on their, you know, on computers.
Max 34:00 I have people capturing off real hardware.
Max 34:02 Where are you?
Max 34:03 What do you like to play off of?
Max 34:05 Uh, and how do you record it?
Kohana 34:07 So a lot of times kind of just depends on my mood.
Kohana 34:11 Like for the the Mario Kart video, I used original hardware for a lot of stuff, for better or worse, some of that footage.
Kohana 34:18 Um I emulated I think D uh Mario Kart DS on there in seven.
Max 34:24 Yeah.
Kohana 34:26 So I've definitely like
Kohana 34:28 What else?
Kohana 34:29 I'm looking at my channel here.
Kohana 34:30 I emulated a Link to the Past.
Kohana 34:33 Um I emulated Metroid Prime, the entire trilogy.
Kohana 34:38 I was actually using like Prime Hack, which adds a bunch of control features.
Max 34:42 My uh when we did on chapter select we did all the Metroid Prime games for a season and my buddy played with the Prime Hack.
Max 34:51 uh on his Steam Deck.
Max 34:53 So yes, I'm very familiar with the Prime Hack.
Kohana 34:54 Oh wow.
Max 34:55 Um
Kohana 34:56 Yeah.
Kohana 34:56 I think if I was remaking those videos, I probably wouldn't do that.
Kohana 35:01 Um
Kohana 35:02 Another kind of funny thing, I guess, is I used the 3D R All-Star Collection for uh Super Mario 64 and Sunshine, but then I went back to the Wii for Mario Galaxy 1 and 2.
Kohana 35:13 Um so it it really depends, I guess.
Max 35:16 Well, you would have you would have had to at the time go back to the Weefer 2 at least.
Kohana 35:20 Yeah, that's for sure.
Kohana 35:22 So I think that was part of my decision was I wanted the videos to look similar.
Max 35:26 Mm-hmm.
Kohana 35:27 Um, but yeah, I mean a lot of times I'll just play on like modern hardware.
Kohana 35:33 A lot of my videos I've made have been like current generation stuff, so it's like fairly easy to capture.
Max 35:40 Well, yes and no.
Kohana 35:40 Well then though McGalaxy played on Wii U.
Max 35:42 I mean, like Galaxy, the Wii, were you playing on a Wii U?
Kohana 35:46 I was playing on Wii U, yeah.
Max 35:48 Okay, okay.
Max 35:48 So that that would make sense.
Max 35:50 And then if you emulate.
Max 35:51 So what about Donkey Kong then?
Max 35:52 So that that runs the gamut of
Max 35:56 Super Nintendo all the way up to uh Wii U or or Switch, depending on I guess the versions of uh Tropical Freeze and Returns.
Max 36:04 Are you
Max 36:06 Like are you use do you use NSO at all, or if you're gonna emulate, you're gonna just do it on your PC?
Kohana 36:08 But all you're gonna add just to run.
Kohana 36:11 I prefer to just do it on my computer.
Max 36:13 Yeah.
Kohana 36:13 Um when I was emulating stuff for footage, I was like, my my setup was a lot different.
Kohana 36:19 Now it'd be pretty easy to do NSO, but
Kohana 36:21 Like my consoles were out all out like in the living room and my PC was in another room.
Max 36:25 Mm-hmm.
Kohana 36:26 So now I just have everything like right next to each other.
Kohana 36:29 So I could do that, but
Kohana 36:30 Yeah, for for Donkey Kong I emulated everything and then I got the Switch versions of uh the retro games.
Max 36:38 Oh, the the the Retro Studios games.
Max 36:40 I was like, you go wait, you got the switch word.
Max 36:43 Uh okay, so and what what capture card do you use?
Kohana 36:44 Uh okay, so and what what capture curve?
Max 36:47 You use an um
Kohana 36:48 I have the uh Elgato 4K X.
Kohana 36:51 That was a pretty recent upgrade.
Kohana 36:52 I got that like a year ago, but before that I think I was using the HD60S.
Max 36:54 Okay.
Max 37:01 But all your so is it just a storage thing that you're not record or capturing in 4K or at least uploading in it?
Kohana 37:07 Part of it is that the other one is a little bit more than a little bit
Kohana 37:09 Yeah, I I don't really mess with anything higher than 1080p.
Kohana 37:13 Part of it is storage.
Kohana 37:14 That's probably my main motivator.
Kohana 37:15 But then the other thing is like I was actually talking about this with uh Pedro at PG Reviews.
Max 37:20 Okay.
Kohana 37:20 Um a lot of
Kohana 37:23 people that watch my content, I think it's like 80% of people or something, they are not doing it on their computers.
Kohana 37:29 Like I think over 40 yeah over 40% of my audience watches theirs my stuff on their phone.
Max 37:29 It's on the phone.
Kohana 37:34 It's like
Kohana 37:35 What am I really doing uploading in 4K at that point, you know?
Kohana 37:38 And then I also have to wonder like how much of those people that aren't watching on their phone are like actually sitting there watching the video and are like, damn, I wish this was higher quality, you know, like
Kohana 37:48 I feel like a lot of times it's like people just kind of throw our stuff on in the background and you know, no issues with that.
Max 37:52 This is true.
Kohana 37:54 So like I I just kind of wonder like how worth it it is to work with 4K when it's gonna be such like a headache for me.
Max 38:02 You are not wrong.
Max 38:04 You all you just don't suffer my affliction, which is great.
Max 38:07 I I'm proud of you for not having my problem.
Max 38:11 It's so bad.
Max 38:13 Um yeah, man.
Max 38:15 I've I've spent a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of energy to get everything to every console is hooked up.
Max 38:24 into the capture card.
Max 38:26 I can switch anything on at any time.
Max 38:28 I can play it on any screen in my office.
Max 38:30 My monitor, TV, tube TV, all the it's it's taken a long time.
Max 38:36 I've
Max 38:37 You got a good stay where you are.
Max 38:39 Don't follow me down this dark path.
Kohana 38:42 Yeah, it's very much like the non-perfectionist in me.
Max 38:46 It that there there it is, it benefits.
Max 38:48 I want to talk to you about two thumbnails because these thumbnails happened
Max 38:54 uh uh w since we've known each other in the discord.
Max 38:58 So it's kind of watching them happen in real time.
Max 39:01 Um
Kohana 39:01 I know where this is going.
Max 39:02 Oh yeah, you do.
Max 39:03 Your Donkey Kong Bonanza video has a thumbnail that says it's bad.
Kohana 39:04 Yeah.
Max 39:09 It's a very good thumbnail.
Max 39:11 Very much
Max 39:13 Like perfectly designed for what YouTube would like.
Max 39:16 And it pairs well super well with the title, which is I didn't like Donkey Kong Bonanza.
Max 39:21 Um and the crying Donkey Kong Silo.
Max 39:23 It's beautiful.
Max 39:24 And then your Metroid Prime video, like thematically, is the inverse where it's like Metroid Prime 4 is underwhelming.
Kohana 39:26 That's our video.
Max 39:32 But then your thumb thumbnail is it's good and green.
Max 39:37 And you've you've shown examples of other channels kind of following this style.
Max 39:43 And I don't
Max 39:44 I don't know necessarily if you were first or if you were inspired by someone else.
Max 39:48 Um, but these thumb this this it's bad thumbnail style I have seen around a century video.
Max 39:55 Kind of like when you buy a car and then you see that car everywhere.
Kohana 39:56 I don't buy a part and it's a good thing.
Max 39:59 I want how A, I guess, does it feel and B, like where did it come from and
Max 40:07 Now do you feel like you're maybe in a trap or you've like put yourself in a thing where it's like, well, gosh, how do I do I need to see if I can do this type of thumbnail for s you know, videos going forward?
Max 40:18 Or
Max 40:19 What's the uh what's the story here?
Kohana 40:23 Yeah, so um I guess I'll start with the Donkey Kong one.
Kohana 40:26 That one, I'm not gonna take credit for this format at all, just because I had already seen it floating around YouTube at the time.
Max 40:30 Sure, yeah.
Kohana 40:32 I think I first saw it in the the Skitty Bitty Tears of the Kingdom video where it's just like it's bad, period.
Kohana 40:39 Um, so then that inspired like a bunch of other people to start using that format.
Kohana 40:44 And there was one video that went viral.
Kohana 40:46 It was like a Mario Kart review.
Kohana 40:48 And it was pretty much exactly the same composition as like my Donkey Kong one where it's like blue sky background, Mario sitting in his cart looking out at the
Kohana 40:57 the sky in front of him with like the it's bad text in front of him.
Kohana 41:01 And so people were like dunking on that thumbnail and I disagreed with a lot of the points in the video.
Kohana 41:06 So I thought it'd be kind of funny to like riff on it.
Max 41:09 Oh, I see it, yes.
Kohana 41:10 And so yeah.
Max 41:11 Okay.
Max 41:11 Stop defending Mario Kart World by Xander J.
Kohana 41:12 Stop defending Mario Power 4 by C.
Kohana 41:16 Yes, that's the one.
Kohana 41:17 So he actually has a couple videos with that exact thumbnail pretty much.
Max 41:20 Oh my gosh, he has two point two million views on that thing.
Kohana 41:21 But uh
Kohana 41:25 Yeah, so like you can see why people would like get frustrated at that.
Max 41:29 Stop defending Nintendo.
Kohana 41:30 Um install Pokemon button
Max 41:31 It's bad.
Max 41:32 Uninstall Pokemon Legends ZA.
Max 41:35 I'm not kidding.
Max 41:36 Okay, yep.
Max 41:37 Alright.
Max 41:37 I see the format.
Kohana 41:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kohana 41:40 So I thought it'd be funny to riff on that and um I found an area in Donkey Kong Bonanza that would like
Kohana 41:45 pretty much perfectly match that with the the yellow grass, the blue sky, and then I made Donkey Kong kind of like stand out against the rest of it
Max 41:50 Mm-hmm.
Kohana 41:53 And I sent the idea to Hot Cider, who I work with for my thumbnails primarily, and I was like, let's make this as over the top as possible.
Max 41:57 Mm-hmm.
Kohana 42:02 So then that's where the idea for like the crying Pauline and crying Donkey Kong
Kohana 42:07 silhouettes in the sky came from and then like the glowing massive red text.
Kohana 42:12 I just I wanted to make it as like obnoxious as possible and I I think we did a great job.
Kohana 42:17 Um
Max 42:17 So I got I've you know I I've written somewhere before uh once you make a video and your thumbnail is a hot cider thumbnail, you know you've made it as a video essay, so good for you
Kohana 42:28 Oh yeah.
Kohana 42:29 Thank you, thank you.
Kohana 42:31 So yeah, that video kind of predictably took off.
Kohana 42:36 And then I didn't like really use that to inform later thumbnails I wanted to make.
Kohana 42:41 Like the Metroid Prime one, I genuinely thought like, okay.
Kohana 42:44 There's like a narrative thread here from what I'm gonna say for this game, for the Donkey Kong one.
Kohana 42:48 So I thought it would be like fitting to use kind of a similar thumbnail.
Kohana 42:53 Um but that one like
Kohana 42:56 honestly underperform my expectations by a lot.
Kohana 42:59 So I wouldn't say like that video is kind of motivating any of my like future thumbnail decisions.
Max 43:04 Yeah.
Max 43:06 Okay.
Max 43:06 It's it's always fun to kinda when I had um
Max 43:10 Cinema sticks on.
Max 43:11 You know, he does movie essays, so his style is very different.
Max 43:24 Um their titles are super long and the images are usually just stills from the movies.
Max 43:29 So it's it's I always like picking people's brains about their approach to packaging on YouTube.
Max 43:35 I think even
Max 43:36 Raz Butin has talked about it in a couple of his videos on his second channels like the idea of packaging.
Max 43:41 I actually think he did a video specifically on like the cyberpunk.
Max 43:45 in his side, I'll try to find it.
Kohana 43:47 Yeah, that was a great video.
Max 43:47 Um I'm yeah, I love love whenever Raz talks behind the scenes.
Max 43:53 Going forward, like looking at some of your posts on your YouTube channel, you've got uh a Persona 3 video in the works, and then you have like polls and other questions about
Max 44:05 Well, what should I talk about?
Max 44:07 You've got Bloodborne, you've got Dark Souls, um kind of just scrolling through the post here, you see that kind of stuff, and it's like uh, you know, Hollow Knight's kind of Nintendo adjacent.
Max 44:18 But my my point is is
Max 44:20 It looks like just creatively you're branching out from kind of this Nintendo focus to other games that you play and love clearly.
Max 44:30 Are you how are you hesitant about that because maybe people see you as like the Nintendo guy?
Max 44:39 Um, I don't see you that way, but I'm just kind of curious, like, are you nervous about that?
Max 44:43 Are you like, no, this is just I'm gonna keep making what I want to make and uh
Max 44:48 If they come, they come, you know, type of thing.
Max 44:50 Like what's what's your thought as you go forward outside of Nintendo world?
Kohana 44:57 Yeah, um I'm I'm kind of of of two minds on that.
Kohana 45:00 I feel like
Kohana 45:01 Like I definitely am nervous about branching out because like a lot of what I want to talk about has just like no relation to anything I've covered really.
Kohana 45:11 But at the same time, like when I first started, I got a lot of attention uh originally with my Metroid Prime 2 video and then 3.
Kohana 45:19 And then I was like kind of known as the Metroid Prime guy.
Kohana 45:21 But then I put out the Mario Kart video and that took off.
Kohana 45:25 That was like my best performing video ever at the time and it still is.
Kohana 45:28 And so I guess I kind of got known as the Mario Kart guy.
Kohana 45:30 And then I started putting out the Mario uh 3D videos and I was like, okay, well I'm known as like the Mario 3D and then like Mario Kart and Metroid guy.
Kohana 45:39 So like I feel like I've been able to transcend like labels like that for now.
Kohana 45:44 Um, so I feel like there's no reason to think that like I couldn't successfully branch out elsewhere, but
Kohana 45:52 You know, a lot of what I've talked about at the same time, like Mario Kart, 3D Mario, Metroid, they're all like related under the Nintendo umbrella.
Kohana 46:01 Whereas like if I wanted to talk about Dark Souls, I'm kinda just going out on a limb, you know.
Max 46:06 Mm-hmm.
Kohana 46:06 Um so yeah, like it does make me a little nervous, but ultimately like I'm not making a ton of money off my channel.
Kohana 46:14 Like it's not the end of the world if a video underperforms.
Kohana 46:18 I ultimately do this for me.
Kohana 46:21 And I enjoy the process of making stuff I like talking about.
Kohana 46:25 So
Max 46:25 I love it.
Max 46:26 I I see this kind of happen sometimes where people like
Max 46:32 make certain content and then they're like, but now I wanna do this.
Max 46:35 And then they feel kinda trapped.
Max 46:37 I've worked with a guy, he does videos of very certain subject and thing, but then he also wants to do these other book reviews.
Max 46:46 And he's done some book reviews on the his channel, but they never perform well because it's not what he's known for.
Max 46:52 And so like he's branched out and done a completely separate channel.
Max 46:55 And even I've done that.
Max 46:56 as well um a couple of years ago when I was I was actually making video essays and being productive in that world.
Max 47:03 Um I made a second channel just for the essays outside of my main one and you know whatever the who knows.
Max 47:09 But it's it's interesting to think of, well, is this what like are people still gonna watch these if it's not what the ch you know people know me for, or what my channel is known for?
Max 47:21 And uh I think um
Max 47:24 You know, like my my main channel, the channel I've had for thirteen or whatever years, however long it's been, good gus gracious.
Max 47:30 Um
Max 47:32 That's just where I get to put anything and everything.
Max 47:34 And I think there's something freeing about that as a creator and someone who makes videos on on this here YouTube.
Max 47:41 It's just like
Max 47:42 This is where you find me and my thoughts about whatever you see in the uh the carousel, so to speak.
Max 47:51 So I think that's a good approach to have.
Kohana 47:54 Yeah, I'm sure like if I was not or if I was doing this full time, I would like have a lot more anxiety around it.
Kohana 48:00 But I mean the stakes are very low, so
Kohana 48:03 I I might as well just use the opportunity to cover whatever, and then maybe I get an audience that's interested in that.
Kohana 48:10 And if not, no big deal.
Max 48:13 Good.
Max 48:13 I like it.
Max 48:14 Uh you should do more tier list, by the way, just saying more brackets.
Kohana 48:15 Uh you should do much of those like things.
Kohana 48:17 I I really want to do that.
Max 48:19 You should.
Kohana 48:19 I have a couple ideas um that I'm I'm cooking up.
Max 48:21 You also need a wider age range because th straight up crimes were committed on your uh what is Nintendo's best game.
Max 48:29 conversation.
Max 48:30 Absolute utter crimes by you baby children.
Kohana 48:36 What was your biggest uh issue with that one?
Max 48:38 I'd have to go back and look like at some of the crimes.
Max 48:41 Uh I remember being very uh passionate when it happened, because it was seven months ago when I watched that.
Max 48:47 So I don't actually remember what I'm upset about, but I remember I'm upset about it
Kohana 48:51 Yeah.
Kohana 48:52 I don't think anyone was happy with that video.
Max 48:54 But see that's the that's what you want when you make a bracket or a tier list, you don't want anyone happy.
Kohana 48:57 Yeah.
Max 49:00 Because if it's
Max 49:02 If it's a if it if if people walk away happy, you did it wrong, kind of thing.
Kohana 49:06 I agree, yeah.
Max 49:06 So um the video is very well executed, but
Max 49:12 But also so wrong, you guys.
Max 49:14 So poor poor poor young poor young people.
Max 49:17 Uh but speaking of branching out.
Max 49:23 You did something that I don't think you've ever done before, at least based off uh the videos here, which is you d got a game code early and did a review at embargo, which is always a special thing.
Max 49:35 Am I correct in saying this your first time doing that?
Kohana 49:38 It is, yeah.
Kohana 49:39 I don't really do any sponsorships or anything.
Max 49:39 Okay.
Kohana 49:41 I've never like got sent a code for a game in early access.
Kohana 49:45 So
Kohana 49:45 I I just reached out to Yacht Club.
Kohana 49:47 I was like, hey, I really want to cover this game.
Kohana 49:49 I want to play it.
Kohana 49:50 Uh let's see if you can hook me up.
Kohana 49:52 And they were very nice in doing so.
Max 49:54 They they have been uh very kind my entire time talking and like covering their stuff, uh, which has been
Max 50:02 Probably far too long, honestly.
Max 50:05 Um yes, yacht club game Mina the Hollower just came out uh two weeks ago, two, three weeks ago.
Max 50:13 I don't know, maybe a month ago at this point.
Max 50:14 I don't know.
Max 50:14 I guess your video is the embargo, which is when it came up.
Kohana 50:17 Yes, like two or three weeks ago.
Max 50:17 So two weeks ago.
Max 50:19 Um it's their first new IP in
Max 50:23 Forever uh since Shovel Knight, honestly.
Max 50:26 Uh they did publish Cyber Shadow, but they didn't make that.
Max 50:29 Um so Meaning of the Hollow came out and you got a review code, I had a review code.
Max 50:35 And we both walked away from the game very differently.
Max 50:40 Uh you loved the game, and I I did watch your review after I wrote mine.
Max 50:44 I'm very much a stickler like when I'm writing about something
Max 50:48 I don't watch other people's stuff about it until I'm done to keep my my thoughts as pure as uh or as original as possible.
Max 50:56 Uh but you loved the game, walked away uh super positive, and I I quit the game after 17 hours.
Max 51:04 Um was like, I do not like this game.
Max 51:07 And so I thought
Max 51:10 We could talk about it.
Max 51:11 Um because this c I am certainly in the minority on this one.
Max 51:16 I think
Max 51:17 Uh it's got a 92 or 93 on Metacritic.
Max 51:20 It was at least at launch the highest reviewed game of the year so far.
Max 51:24 Um probably might be so until Grand Theft Auto, I assume, later this year.
Max 51:31 Um
Max 51:32 Assuming that gets the reviews I anticipate it will get.
Max 51:36 Um super successful.
Max 51:38 It's a great indie game from a beloved studio.
Max 51:43 What I I guess first, just to keep the focus on you, what was your review process like?
Max 51:49 Knowing now there's uh a deadline that you wanted to try and adhere to?
Max 51:54 Um
Max 51:55 What was like your approach in doing a a timely review?
Kohana 52:00 Yeah, I had never really had to make a video with like a deadline before.
Kohana 52:04 I guess I kind of did with Hollow Knight because like I wanted to get it out before Silksong and there was like a two-week notice on that.
Kohana 52:11 But uh
Kohana 52:12 Yeah, so for for Mina, I was like, I'm just gonna try to keep this like as concise as possible.
Kohana 52:18 I wrote like a huge intro like I normally would have for a retrospective, and then I cut like half of it.
Kohana 52:23 Um and then I was like, okay, this is untenable.
Kohana 52:27 So I pretty much just like picked out a couple of mechanics or like ideas or feelings I had on certain aspects of the game and decided to focus on those
Kohana 52:37 So like if you watch my video and then compare it to like gaming news outlets, it's probably pretty different just because like I I try to go in depth with like a lot of the combat mechanics and what I found like interesting about them.
Kohana 52:50 Whereas I feel like a game journalism outlet might just kind of give like a broader picture of the game as a whole, like describing these mechanics without like talking about what makes them engaging, if that makes sense.
Max 53:02 Mm-hmm.
Max 53:03 Depends on the outlet.
Kohana 53:05 Yeah, yeah.
Kohana 53:06 But um yeah, that that was kind of like my mentality, I guess.
Kohana 53:11 And uh focusing on it and like really reining in the uh the scope, I think, helped
Kohana 53:17 me uh make the the deadline there.
Max 53:19 You reigned in the scope better than Yacht Club did.
Max 53:23 Uh uh Um So yeah, I uh
Max 53:27 I've been a fan of Yacht Club since Shovel Knight.
Max 53:29 I played that on the 3DS of like that's where I started back, you know, when that game launched.
Max 53:35 So I've been a you know a ride or die.
Max 53:38 yacht club uh player since uh since then and I think what it really kind of boiled down to
Max 53:48 Was Mina felt like too much?
Max 53:54 It was too dense was the word that I kept coming back to.
Max 53:57 And
Max 53:58 irritating, like there's just kind of death by a thousand cuts kind of thing.
Max 54:04 And it it just felt too big, too much to like contain.
Max 54:08 And then after I wrote my review, because of course it ha this this idea comes to me after I write and publish the review, is Shovel Knight, like the base Shovel Knight, I guess now called Shovel of Hope.
Max 54:23 Is an NES game that just never came out on the NES type of mentality.
Max 54:30 It's it's perfectly designed in that
Max 54:33 adherence to that style and format, uh, but with modern some modern principles, like a few of them, and it's this really tight, well run game that you would think came out back then.
Max 54:47 And Mina the Hollower, while visually does adhere to certain limitations like the color palette, the sound, what have you.
Max 54:58 Does not adhere to the design principles of the past and adopts much more modern ideas, like being so open, having uh what I call like the souls.
Max 55:10 mechanic, which you know, Dark Souls, Hollow Knight, what have you, where you die and you gotta go back and get the thing, whatever your currency is, uh being completely open-ended, and then uh typically really tough
Max 55:23 combat, like punishing combat, uh, you know, get good scrub kind of thing.
Max 55:28 I think that's probably where it was for me in the end, is it's just
Max 55:34 I don't think the modern design worked in the old package, so to speak, where if you designed it in an old way, then it all worked really well.
Max 55:43 I think
Max 55:44 That probably was what was under the surface, and I failed to articulate that before hitting publish.
Max 55:50 Uh, I don't know if that makes any sense to you, but um
Max 55:54 I think that's really kind of where the nugget of it lies.
Kohana 55:58 Yeah, no, I think I get what you mean.
Kohana 56:00 Um, for me though, I feel like it was exactly the kind of thing I want to see more of in the industry.
Kohana 56:06 You know, there's always
Kohana 56:07 talk about like how graphics are getting like we're hitting diminishing returns with new console generations and we're like budgets for games are too big for like no good reason mostly going to like art direction and um
Kohana 56:20 Like adding a gajillion polygons to like someone's teeth, like a character's teeth.
Kohana 56:26 So like, you know, stuff like that is just really obnoxious to keep like seeing studios fall into the trap of.
Kohana 56:33 And I think like a really tightly designed, like well-paced, content-rich game with like really fun systems that is just like
Kohana 56:43 deceptively simple on its face is like exactly what I want to see more of.
Max 56:48 Yeah, I think the I I I do think we need more of that.
Max 56:52 We're just like
Max 56:55 But see, I don't know if Mina is deceptively like deceptively simple.
Max 57:01 Like it looks that way because it it's very uh Game Boy Color inspired, but this game is not
Kohana 57:03 Yeah.
Max 57:08 simple um combat.
Max 57:11 I f I find the navigation quite difficult.
Max 57:13 I really struggled navigating this world.
Max 57:15 It needs a map.
Max 57:16 Um and I know there's like a
Max 57:19 an overworld map that's like very loose.
Max 57:21 It's like the area kind of is over here.
Max 57:24 I s never found that.
Kohana 57:26 Yeah, it's it's not very like useful I guess for navigation.
Max 57:26 Um
Max 57:29 Yeah, it's not a useful map.
Max 57:31 It's just like a we have a map.
Kohana 57:31 Yeah.
Max 57:33 I think the game desperately needs a map.
Max 57:35 Um
Max 57:37 I think that would actually have alleviated a lot of early irritation for me because I could not find certain spaces.
Max 57:43 I it was funny, I would I would actually shoot you a message and be like
Max 57:46 Yeah, I'm like over here and I don't know how to get to this place, and I I guarantee you.
Max 57:53 Um
Max 57:54 I'll just say this super quick, a brief spoilers for um accessing one of the levels Amina the Hollower, so you can you skip ahead if you would like.
Max 58:03 Uh I never would have figured out the mirror thing.
Max 58:06 Well I guess okay, I would have figured out the mirror thing because I did catch the hint in the the mountain place
Max 58:11 Um, but if you did not send me a picture of Super Mario 64 and a painting, I would not have even been thinking about that to get to the Astral
Max 58:21 uh the space level.
Max 58:22 And I I even there was a ramblematic video about it over on Second Wind.
Max 58:26 It was like, this is not how you do it, boys and girls.
Max 58:30 Uh I was like if you didn't give that to me, I
Max 58:33 Probably would have been more frustrated.
Kohana 58:36 Yeah, I I kind of like I get where that video is coming from, but I think I disagreed with a lot of it.
Max 58:42 Interesting.
Kohana 58:42 Um
Kohana 58:43 Yeah, so like I I definitely think that the window for like when you're supposed to be walking against the mirror to like when you actually get teleported is too long.
Kohana 58:54 But I do think I think the game gives you enough hints to where you can figure out like, okay, I'm supposed to walk through the mirror to like go somewhere.
Kohana 59:02 But yeah, like just th they should have like had it be in been instant that you like walk through the mirror and get teleported.
Max 59:08 So here's I I yes, I agree.
Kohana 59:08 Um,
Max 59:11 I think it needs to be quicker.
Max 59:13 The apparently there is a a clue like when you first get to the place where you see someone walk through the mirror.
Max 59:20 But if you miss if you blink and miss it, which I certainly did, you're it seems like you're out of luck.
Max 59:26 I don't think that like happens again.
Max 59:28 There's another
Max 59:31 room where the lady's like, my friend went in the building and he never came out.
Max 59:36 And there's a mirror in there.
Max 59:37 I think it's in September.
Max 59:39 Um, I wonder where he went.
Max 59:41 And there's a mirror in there.
Max 59:42 And so you theor you theoretically could try and put that.
Max 59:46 But there's also a warp I'm gonna I'm gonna call it a warp pipe because it's a pipe that you warp.
Max 59:51 From one end to the other.
Max 59:52 There's a warp pipe in there, so like my brain went to that.
Max 59:55 And then in the mountain, the snow level there's um
Max 59:59 You you do see a lady walk through a mirror if you find this little hidden area off to the the side, and you can you can kind of see that.
Max 01:00:06 So those are at least the three things that I I know about.
Max 01:00:10 Um
Max 01:00:12 I think the my other problem though with it is is is it's the de facto fast travel system in the game.
Max 01:00:20 And if you're gonna have fast travel, you should introduce it straight up early.
Max 01:00:25 Like you should tell people this is how you do it.
Max 01:00:28 And my
Max 01:00:30 I think what conflicts with that is the train, which is telegraphed early as this is how you get from place to place and you need to put money in it.
Max 01:00:39 And it's uh it's also advertised as the only way to get to the the mountain place, which is is not true, but it's the most direct way.
Max 01:00:47 So I'm not looking for another fast travel method because the other one the the big train is is that.
Max 01:00:53 So I
Max 01:00:54 To me, it was just like and then having it turn into a fetch quest at the end.
Max 01:00:58 And it's like, well, I could have been doing this the whole time.
Max 01:01:02 And so i that really like stunned the that was definitely the straw that broke my back.
Kohana 01:01:08 Yeah
Kohana 01:01:09 I think like the hint that was probably the most obvious for me for the mirrors was um actually in Aussex there's like a room that has a mirror in it and then there's like two NPCs.
Kohana 01:01:18 And they both like make really explicit comments about someone walking through the mirror.
Kohana 01:01:23 And then when you look at like where the mirror is positioned,
Max 01:01:23 Oh, that's right.
Max 01:01:25 I remember this.
Kohana 01:01:26 Yeah.
Max 01:01:26 But you couldn't get to the mirror, and so okay
Kohana 01:01:26 There's like a rope that Yeah, so then I was like, okay, so this is like a late game thing.
Kohana 01:01:32 Or like I'm gonna have to do this later.
Kohana 01:01:34 I'm gonna have to keep an eye out for mirrors that I can walk through.
Kohana 01:01:36 Um, so then I found the mirror in uh uh what is it?
Kohana 01:01:40 Um the like first area, the the dungeon.
Max 01:01:43 Oh, the crypt, the crypt area.
Kohana 01:01:43 And
Kohana 01:01:45 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kohana 01:01:45 So I found that and then I like started interacting with it and like m was making faces and stuff in the mirror.
Kohana 01:01:52 And that was the part of the second win video that I disagreed with where they were like the mirror should only serve the function of like
Kohana 01:01:59 you know, teleporting.
Kohana 01:02:00 It should not have the the silly face mode at all.
Kohana 01:02:02 Because I thought it was really cool that at first I thought it was like just a silly face game, but then I realized it was like a really integral part of progression.
Kohana 01:02:09 Um
Kohana 01:02:10 So that was like a cool little discovery, but like I I did get that hint from the NPCs, so I saw that.
Kohana 01:02:16 And so like I wasn't too bothered by uh
Max 01:02:18 No, no, no.
Kohana 01:02:19 Like, you know, having to go back and like get all the mirrors because I f I felt like I had the tools I needed to like figure it out.
Kohana 01:02:26 So I actually never thought about like the the astral world as like a fast travel
Kohana 01:02:31 means though because like I guess that makes sense but I just kind of thought it was like the train that was like the main one um but I think the way I kind of see that is like
Kohana 01:02:40 Since the game is so open and like the only way to access that world is mirrors, like there has to be mirrors in multiple different locations to like account for people doing it in different orders.
Kohana 01:02:50 And so you have like the mirror in uh the the dungeon, the crypt, you have it in Septenberg, in the Bayou, and then I forget where the the fourth one is.
Max 01:03:01 I mean I think I think every level has one because you have to you have to go to the level, enter the mirror and flip the switch, which will then let you progress.
Kohana 01:03:01 But um
Max 01:03:11 into the actual space level, like deeper.
Kohana 01:03:13 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kohana 01:03:14 Yeah, you're right.
Kohana 01:03:15 They all have one.
Max 01:03:15 Yeah, everything has to have one.
Kohana 01:03:16 Um
Max 01:03:17 The mines, the the bayou, the crypt, and September.
Kohana 01:03:23 Mm-hmm.
Max 01:03:23 In the cold place.
Kohana 01:03:26 Yeah, so like I guess it it definitely does make sense as a fast travel method, but yeah, when you when you think about it that way, like there isn't really a way they could have avoided
Kohana 01:03:35 like not having a mirror everywhere unless they really wanted to commit to it being the last area.
Kohana 01:03:41 But I think it's pretty cool that like you can just do it in whatever order you want.
Max 01:03:44 Uh well I did see in the there's a press Discord from Yacht Club and someone in there at some point said that the second area they did was Astral.
Max 01:03:53 And I'm like, how
Max 01:03:55 Now having like you know gone as far as I have with the game, I I don't know how they even did that because they would have had to go to every area to begin with.
Max 01:04:04 So I don't know.
Max 01:04:05 It's I I appreciate the uh
Max 01:04:10 ability to go anywhere in any order, I suppose.
Max 01:04:12 I d I think I think it would have benefited from some focus.
Max 01:04:17 though.
Max 01:04:18 And there is like a designed flow.
Max 01:04:20 Like they're like, you should go here.
Max 01:04:22 I think the newspaper is actually super great.
Max 01:04:25 I love the newspaper.
Max 01:04:27 Um
Max 01:04:27 It's fun.
Max 01:04:28 It's like, hey, there's stuff going on over there.
Max 01:04:30 But I also would like it if like the directions actually worked where it's like, oh man, stuff's happening in the bayou out west.
Max 01:04:36 And you go west and it's like, nah, it's like south.
Max 01:04:40 West ish.
Max 01:04:41 It's whatever.
Max 01:04:42 Whatever.
Max 01:04:42 I'm I don't want to harp too much on on those types of things.
Max 01:04:46 What I do want to harp on
Max 01:04:48 Is the con the the weapon selection at the beginning specifically, but the combat.
Kohana 01:04:52 Yeah
Max 01:04:53 Um they do a Pokemon thing, is what I'm calling it, where you get to pick a starting weapon.
Max 01:05:00 You can pick the whip
Max 01:05:01 the legally distinct Castlevania whip, two daggers, or uh a hammer, a King D D hammer.
Max 01:05:11 Now
Max 01:05:12 I chose a hammer.
Max 01:05:15 You chose daggers.
Max 01:05:17 Uh I think you liked the daggers.
Max 01:05:19 Uh I made a mistake choosing the hammer, and I think everyone that I've talked to or seen
Max 01:05:25 It's like, yeah, we made a mistake choosing the hammer.
Max 01:05:28 Uh I even see people I've seen uh John Linneman complained about the daggers as well.
Kohana 01:05:29 Yeah.
Max 01:05:35 Um
Max 01:05:38 I d I I that was actually I considered restarting the game, like losing four hours of progress was like where I was at.
Max 01:05:46 Um
Max 01:05:48 W talk to me about the daggers because I didn't I found them eventually and then I realized that they had like a little bit of pushback when you use them.
Max 01:05:57 And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Max 01:05:59 I do not want to be pushed back every time I use my weapon.
Max 01:06:02 I'll just stick with the you know, I'll d I'll dance with the devil I know kind of thing.
Kohana 01:06:06 I guess that's
Max 01:06:07 Um, but you started with the daggers, so you lived with it.
Max 01:06:10 Talk to me about the daggers and why you liked them.
Max 01:06:12 Did you stick with them all the way through?
Max 01:06:14 Like what what was your mentality, I guess, choosing this uh this starter weapon, as it were?
Kohana 01:06:21 Yeah, so I just replayed Dark Souls 3 like three months ago and I was using the Cell Sword twin blades.
Kohana 01:06:28 Twinblades, my entire playthrough.
Kohana 01:06:29 And uh they are if you don't know, they're like two kind of like half sword, half knife things that like
Kohana 01:06:37 just do a ton of damage uh if you use them both at the same time and so I was getting kind of cellsword twin blades from uh
Kohana 01:06:46 like vibes for the daggers.
Kohana 01:06:48 So I was like, okay, I'm gonna use these.
Kohana 01:06:49 They're probably like more of a a dexterity weapon geared toward just like chipping away at health as quick as possible.
Kohana 01:06:55 Um and they're they seemed very like nimble.
Kohana 01:06:58 So I was like, yeah, I'm rocking with this.
Kohana 01:07:01 I don't really feel like the whip is as fast as I'll need it to be, and absolutely no way in hell I'm picking the the hammer.
Kohana 01:07:11 I I immediately did not like how stiff it felt.
Kohana 01:07:13 So like the the daggers seem to be the most like um m agile.
Kohana 01:07:20 So I went with those and the knockback didn't really bother me.
Kohana 01:07:23 I didn't even realize that like was only a feature of the daggers until you just said it.
Kohana 01:07:28 Um
Kohana 01:07:29 So I I just kind of like took it as like, okay, this is just part of the game mechanics.
Kohana 01:07:34 It's like a thing in all the 2D Zelda games, so I I'll get used to it.
Kohana 01:07:38 And um
Kohana 01:07:40 I used those for probably like 70% of my playtime.
Kohana 01:07:44 And then I got the battery buster.
Kohana 01:07:46 And I started messing with that.
Kohana 01:07:47 And I was like, okay, I like this weapon.
Kohana 01:07:49 So I I finished the game with the battery buster.
Max 01:07:49 That's the gun?
Kohana 01:07:52 Yeah.
Max 01:07:52 Okay, where I didn't even find the gun.
Max 01:07:54 I never found I found this
Max 01:07:56 I finally found the whip toward the end and then I pawned it so I could buy something else.
Max 01:08:01 Uh I found the daggers and I found the shield.
Max 01:08:03 So I never found the gun.
Max 01:08:04 Where's the gun?
Kohana 01:08:07 I I don't remember where I got it.
Max 01:08:07 If you remember.
Kohana 01:08:09 I think I think I got it what's the intended area before
Kohana 01:08:14 The mountain.
Kohana 01:08:14 Is it is it Bone Beach or is it the mines?
Kohana 01:08:17 I think it was Bone Beach.
Max 01:08:18 Those are the same I mean, those are the same thing.
Max 01:08:20 Bone Beach and the mines like go together.
Kohana 01:08:20 Oh, are they?
Kohana 01:08:21 Okay.
Kohana 01:08:22 Yeah, okay.
Kohana 01:08:24 Yeah.
Kohana 01:08:24 Um so I got in like that area, I'm pretty sure.
Max 01:08:26 Okay.
Max 01:08:27 All right.
Kohana 01:08:28 Um so then I I didn't start using it until a little later, but once I like kind of got the hang of it and understood the mechanics, I was like, yeah.
Kohana 01:08:35 Yeah, I'm I'm using this.
Kohana 01:08:37 So it's basically just a Zelda sword, but you also get like a Mega Man gun with it that just bounces projectiles around.
Kohana 01:08:43 It's awesome.
Max 01:08:44 Okay.
Max 01:08:45 So the game does offer you the opportunity to buy weapons before you find them out in the world.
Max 01:08:50 So if you find them in the world, they're they're free, uh, or you can pay for them and it's like 2,000, 3,000 bones.
Max 01:08:56 Early game, that's really hard to come by.
Max 01:08:58 mid to late game, you'll you'll have that much pretty quickly.
Max 01:09:01 It's not too hard.
Max 01:09:02 I think what would alleviate the the regret that people seem to have when they make the wrong choice, as it were, um
Max 01:09:12 would be to let you use them in a combat scenario uh before not letting you pick one.
Kohana 01:09:17 Yeah.
Max 01:09:21 Like I think
Max 01:09:22 The game opens up with the tutorial on the boat and you and you fight a boss, which you can you can beat or not.
Max 01:09:28 Uh either way, the you'll crash and things go away.
Max 01:09:31 But you pick your weapon before you fight anything.
Max 01:09:34 So you get to feel movement, but you don't get to feel combat with it.
Max 01:09:37 And then when the boat crashes, you can't find the weapons again.
Max 01:09:39 So you're stuck with whatever you chose.
Kohana 01:09:40 Yeah.
Max 01:09:41 And I think like the chest should have just washed up on the beach.
Max 01:09:45 And if you don't like the combat of the next two rooms, you can run back, get the weapon, and try a new one.
Max 01:09:50 I think
Max 01:09:51 Would you and then after you maybe say once you get to Essex or Ossex or whatever, the first town, like the chest goes away or is taken.
Max 01:10:00 Like that could be like a thing, like a little mission where it's like, oh, the the octopus took the chest.
Kohana 01:10:02 Yeah.
Max 01:10:06 Um I think that would have helped a lot.
Kohana 01:10:08 Yeah, no, I I fully agree with that that criticism people have made.
Kohana 01:10:12 Like I think the game should let you like demo them in an actual combat situation.
Kohana 01:10:16 I think the the solution you came up with is actually great.
Max 01:10:18 Yeah, it just the hammer I mean eventually if
Max 01:10:24 I liked it because it was all I knew.
Max 01:10:26 And so like I made and I bought the upgrade that makes it actually a King D D D hammer with a big AoE after you charge it a little longer.
Kohana 01:10:33 Yeah.
Max 01:10:34 Um, but the problem with that is is once you lock in to charge it, your face stuck facing that direction.
Max 01:10:40 And I found myself facing the wrong direction a lot.
Max 01:10:43 And you can't like you can't adjust.
Max 01:10:45 You either have to hit the swing, which stops your movement, or you gotta like try and dodge roll your way past and down and like around them to make it effective.
Max 01:10:54 Um
Max 01:10:56 The hammer is a is a brutal thing if you don't if you're not, I guess, used to that play style.
Max 01:11:02 And uh it was a it was a frustrating thing, uh, to say the least.
Max 01:11:08 But
Max 01:11:10 I'm not I guess that's the one thing I guess most people agree with me on is like the early weapons stuff.
Max 01:11:16 The rest of it, uh maybe not so much.
Max 01:11:18 Particularly
Max 01:11:20 You and I definitely disagreed on this.
Max 01:11:23 Uh the soundtrack.
Max 01:11:25 Jake Kaufman returns uh to make some chip tune bops and uh
Kohana 01:11:26 Oh yeah.
Max 01:11:32 I kind of just left like this is fine, but uh a lot of people I've heard say it's a masterpiece and it's a new
Max 01:11:42 like an instant classic.
Max 01:11:43 And so I'm I'm curious because I think you're one of those people.
Max 01:11:47 Uh I'm and and I'm in the I'm again in the minority, which breaks my heart because I love Jake's music.
Kohana 01:11:47 I sure am
Kohana 01:11:53 Yeah, I've I've seen a lot of people say that like it kind of just feels like coffee shop background music and like I can understand
Kohana 01:12:03 certain criticisms of this game, but I I just I don't see that at all.
Kohana 01:12:06 Like so many of the the area themes are just absolute earworm bops and then there are like some of the more like lo-fi tracks that just like complement
Kohana 01:12:16 the m the like more in your face stuff very well and it all just creates like such cool atmosphere.
Kohana 01:12:23 I feel like each track just
Kohana 01:12:25 like does so much for the area it's in.
Kohana 01:12:28 Um Septenburg, I think, is just like a constant flow of uh bangers.
Kohana 01:12:33 Like you have
Kohana 01:12:34 the really catchy area theme and then you go to the village and it's a little more like lo-fi electronic and then you go out to the main area and it like the energy ramps up and that was like my favorite stretch of the game right there.
Max 01:12:48 That was that was the second level I did.
Max 01:12:51 Um that's where I ended up.
Kohana 01:12:51 Yeah
Max 01:12:53 I I like the the boss that it chased you throughout the level.
Max 01:13:01 I did like that.
Max 01:13:02 That was actually a good touch.
Max 01:13:03 I didn't think the boss was actually hard though once you got to it.
Max 01:13:08 Uh he was like one of the easier ones I thought in the game.
Max 01:13:12 But the fish down at the Bone Beach or whatever, that was atrocious.
Kohana 01:13:12 Yeah
Max 01:13:15 Um that that's the the game has a verticality problem too, I think.
Max 01:13:21 Anything that's in the air, I think, sucks to fight.
Max 01:13:24 Um, and when you have a really heavy-hitting boss who's in the air or like moves things around, like the eyeball moving, I d whatever.
Max 01:13:33 I did not like that.
Max 01:13:34 Uh anyway, back to September.
Max 01:13:36 I liked the boss there a lot.
Max 01:13:38 The theme of it like chasing you through the world.
Kohana 01:13:38 Yeah.
Max 01:13:41 Uh and I like the colors.
Max 01:13:42 I did not like the leaf piles that were indestructible, except for fire.
Max 01:13:47 That felt
Max 01:13:48 Not cool, but other than that, uh I like that level.
Max 01:13:52 It's fine.
Max 01:13:53 I just couldn't tell you what the songs are
Kohana 01:13:53 Yeah.
Kohana 01:13:54 That one Ah man.
Kohana 01:13:57 They're they I I've like have them stuck in my head for the past like couple weeks.
Kohana 01:14:02 I've been listening to that soundtrack a lot just when I work or whatever.
Max 01:14:06 I was
Max 01:14:08 So I was I I have it loaded on my Switch too and I think because I haven't played through it in quite some time but I want to try and play through Shovel Knight again.
Max 01:14:19 here soon.
Max 01:14:20 And it it won't take very long.
Max 01:14:21 Shovel Knight's a pretty quick game once you know it.
Max 01:14:23 And I'm I think it'll be like riding a bike for me.
Max 01:14:25 I've I played that game a lot way back in the day.
Max 01:14:28 I played it on 3DS, Wii U.
Max 01:14:31 Vita, I platted it on the Vita, um dabbled on Xbox.
Max 01:14:35 I don't think I got to the uh fro whoa, what are those frogs?
Max 01:14:41 Why can I see them?
Max 01:14:43 What are the frogs rare did?
Max 01:14:45 The Toads or something.
Max 01:14:47 Oh, do you remember?
Kohana 01:14:47 Oh, Battletoad?
Max 01:14:48 Battletoads, the Battletoads stuff on Xbox.
Kohana 01:14:49 Battle Toad.
Kohana 01:14:50 Yeah.
Max 01:14:51 Um, I think I got to some of that in the that version of the
Max 01:14:54 the game.
Max 01:14:55 But anyway, I I want to play it because when I think back to Shovel Knight, and this could just be because I played it so much, but like those themes, those come in my head.
Max 01:15:06 Like right the
Max 01:15:09 The first level, like just the the music just hits you out of the gate, and I just feel like it's just stuck so much better.
Max 01:15:16 But I am aware that that could just be the last, you know, ten plus years uh talking.
Kohana 01:15:20 Yeah.
Kohana 01:15:21 So y you want to hear something funny?
Max 01:15:23 Yes.
Kohana 01:15:24 So when I was getting uh music for the Mina video, um at the time they o yeah, they they only had like the press pack with like six songs or whatever, and I needed some more background music.
Kohana 01:15:36 So I was getting like
Kohana 01:15:37 Shovel Knight music and I've only played Shovel Knight one time, but I was like revisiting the soundtrack going through and like trying to pick songs to use in the video.
Kohana 01:15:46 And I think I had a moment with that soundtrack like what you had with Mina where I was like, yeah, this is good, but I don't really remember much about it.
Max 01:15:55 See, that's so interesting.
Max 01:15:56 And I I I I love that first of all, but I'm not like the best
Max 01:16:04 I'm not musically trained in any way and and listeners of any stretch of time will know that, you know, I don't know a lot of popular music.
Max 01:16:11 I'm not
Max 01:16:12 Not very good at it, but I do listen to a lot of video game music.
Max 01:16:16 Um this is primarily that and jazz uh are the things that I listen to at home.
Max 01:16:21 And when those two come together, oh boy.
Max 01:16:24 Um
Max 01:16:26 But yeah, I just like this and I think part of it could be that I was so focused on everything else in the game that like the music just wasn't standing out and punching up.
Max 01:16:36 But it was uh it was a bummer.
Max 01:16:39 I mean even when I went and listened to the soundtrack by itself, I was just like, eh.
Max 01:16:43 This like this is Jake Kaufman and this is very good chiptune music, but it wasn't
Max 01:16:48 standing out.
Max 01:16:49 And I I I have to say, like, I didn't think the snow level fit.
Max 01:16:52 And I feel like if you got a snow level in a game, the theme's gotta hit.
Max 01:16:55 Uh Fendrana Drifts represent.
Kohana 01:16:56 Yeah.
Max 01:16:58 Like you gotta have I don't know.
Max 01:16:59 It's so it just
Max 01:17:01 I walked away more disappointed with Mina than I ever expected, and that really bums me out because
Max 01:17:09 A I like Yacht Club and want them to keep obviously making games and and want to keep playing what they put out and I I suspect they will definitely play Shovel Knight 3D, which is uh supposed to be their next game, but now
Max 01:17:22 Now it's like, well, there will be another Mina game, and I'm gonna look at that and go, well, I'm not gonna do that, you know, and that's kind of a bummer because they're gonna be a one game at a time sort of studio.
Kohana 01:17:30 Yeah.
Max 01:17:35 And that, you know, so like now I half of their output won't necessarily half their output will have a steeper uh hill to climb to get my interest, for lack of a better word.
Kohana 01:17:50 Yeah, I don't know if I think they'll like revisit Mina.
Kohana 01:17:53 Maybe maybe like in the future, but I feel like they feel like they've
Kohana 01:17:58 done everything they possibly can with the mechanics of the game and like that's why they've insisted they're not doing any kind of DLC for it.
Kohana 01:18:06 So it'd be hard to imagine them doing like a sequel unless they want to do like 3D Mina or something.
Max 01:18:10 Well, I think I think Shovel Knight is their Mario and I think Mina is their Zelda.
Max 01:18:16 And so I think
Kohana 01:18:17 Yeah.
Max 01:18:18 I think eventually there will be like for lack of a better name a Mina 2.
Max 01:18:22 Um but Shovel Knight 3D is next on the plate and we'll see how long that takes them to make.
Max 01:18:27 I know development started at one point, but then they paused to do all hands-on Mina
Max 01:18:31 Uh now they're a a one game at a time sort of studio going forward.
Max 01:18:36 So however long 3D takes to make
Max 01:18:39 But I suspect, especially with how well it reviewed, how well it's already sold, over 500,000 copies so far as of this recording.
Max 01:18:50 uh like Mina 2 will happen.
Max 01:18:53 Um and I'm curious what that will look like as uh you know as their Zelda game like
Max 01:19:02 What did they do?
Max 01:19:03 What's the adventure?
Max 01:19:04 But personally, it's just like, well, I guess what the gap for me will be Shovel Knight 3D to whatever they do after that.
Max 01:19:13 It
Max 01:19:13 You know, it it's gonna be harder to sell me on Mina 2.
Max 01:19:17 Uh, but I think and and for the good of uh Yacht Club, that won't be a very hard sell for everyone else who enjoyed the game, you know.
Kohana 01:19:18 I think that's a good idea.
Max 01:19:26 Six years down the line, six seven years down the line from now, when Mina two comes out, whenever that is
Kohana 01:19:32 I sure hope we see it.
Max 01:19:34 Oh, I believe you I believe you will.
Max 01:19:36 I think uh I don't know if we're gonna have that era of like all these in indie cameos that we're getting you we used to get all the time.
Max 01:19:45 Shovel Knight wa notorious was in everything uh worked out very well for them.
Max 01:19:50 But I don't think like you're gonna start seeing Mina in a bunch of different games, but
Max 01:19:54 And I don't think you'll see a bunch of spin-offs either, like they did with Shuffle Knight Dig and Puzzle, the puzzle game they did, um
Max 01:20:03 Gosh, what was the puzzle game?
Max 01:20:05 Uh I re I think I reviewed that for Pete's sake.
Max 01:20:08 Um I can't remember it.
Max 01:20:10 Uh
Max 01:20:11 What was it?
Kohana 01:20:12 I c I can't remember.
Max 01:20:13 Uh Pocket Dungeon.
Max 01:20:14 Pocket Dungeon was their puzzle game.
Max 01:20:19 Yeah, I don't think we're gonna see a bunch of that for Mina.
Max 01:20:22 I think that honestly distracted Yacht Club a little bit.
Max 01:20:25 Not that they developed those two games.
Max 01:20:27 They were overseeing them, but still.
Max 01:20:29 Anyway
Max 01:20:31 I think that does it, Kohana.
Max 01:20:33 Thank you so much for joining me on the show.
Max 01:20:38 I had a really great time talking with you.
Max 01:20:40 If
Max 01:20:40 Folks would like to find you online, they can find you over on YouTube at Kohana64.
Max 01:20:47 I like the N64 representation.
Max 01:20:49 That's all it can mean.
Kohana 01:20:49 Oh thank you, thank you.
Max 01:20:51 Um
Max 01:20:52 So go check out his videos.
Max 01:20:54 Watch uh watch the complete 3D Mario retrospective because it has the 3D land footage in it.
Max 01:21:01 Very, very nice.
Max 01:21:02 I assume you emulated that probably.
Max 01:21:04 I assume.
Kohana 01:21:04 I did, yes.
Max 01:21:06 Sneaky sneaky.
Max 01:21:07 Um I just got my 3ds modded for video out, and so I'm like itching to use it.
Max 01:21:12 I might be helping our friend Wizawet with some 3DS capture here soon.
Max 01:21:17 uh which will be exciting.
Max 01:21:18 You've got your next video, according to the uh to the YouTube post, is going to be a persona three video.
Max 01:21:26 Uh so everyone keep your eyes peeled.
Max 01:21:29 For Persona 3.
Max 01:21:30 Um over on Kohana's channel.
Max 01:21:32 Go support him.
Max 01:21:33 Check it out.
Max 01:21:34 Hit that subscribe button.
Max 01:21:36 Ring the bell.
Max 01:21:37 All the things you're supposed to do.
Kohana 01:21:39 Yeah, thank you very much for having me.
Max 01:21:41 Well th yes, you are very, very welcome.
Max 01:21:44 Thank you so much.
Max 01:21:45 And if you'd like to see anything that we spoke about, uh you can check out the show notes in your podcast player of choice or go over to maxfrequency.
Max 01:21:52 net.
Max 01:21:52 Ford slash MFP slash 53.
Max 01:21:56 You check out chapter select, uh, retrospective seasonal podcasts where you bounce back and forth exploring evolution, design, and legacy.
Max 01:22:03 We've done
Max 01:22:04 Metroid Prime.
Max 01:22:06 We've done Banjo Kazooie, Resident Evil, so go check that sort of stuff out if you would like.
Max 01:22:12 And then a good old maxfrequency.
Max 01:22:14 net for everything else.
Max 01:22:15 Thank you all so much for listening.
Max 01:22:17 And until next time.
Max 01:22:19 Adios